Another Mans Shoes
Interviews with fellow military veterans and adventurers about their experiences of war, the lows and times of hardship, joining them on their journey and how this has shaped their lives in the most extraordinary way. Comedy moments, dark humour and witty banter.
Another Mans Shoes
From Troubled Youth to Special Forces: Jason Birch’s Journey of Resilience and Innovation S1E10
What drives someone to transition from a troubled youth to a decorated member of the British Army Special Forces? Join us as Jason , our guest, takes us on his gripping journey from the streets of Cheshire and Merseyside to the elite ranks of the military. Jason shares raw and impactful stories from his early days navigating school as a loner and the life-changing decision to join the army, setting the stage for a remarkable career fueled by sheer determination and the invaluable lessons learned in cadet programs.
Ever wondered what it's like to choose a military specialization and the challenges that come with it? This episode is a treasure trove of insights, as Jason recounts the tug-of-war between various trades and the influence of family advice that ultimately guided him towards joining elite units like the Parachute Regiment. Hear about his initial dissatisfaction with his unit, the pivotal encounter with an inspiring Special Forces captain, and the gruelling selection process that tested him both physically and mentally to become a Special Forces Communicator. The vivid recounts of parachute training and earning his wings provide an authentic glimpse into the camaraderie and trials faced by military personnel.
As Jason transitioned from the military to civilian life, his passion for adventure led him to create the Special Forces Experience, an endeavor that captures the essence of military life through events and courses. From organizing a memorial event that grew into a popular venture to adapting his business during the pandemic, Jason's story is one of resilience and innovation. Discover how these events have built a supportive community, providing both veterans and enthusiasts with a taste of military discipline and camaraderie. Don't miss this episode filled with personal stories, military insights, and entrepreneurial spirit that promises to inspire and engage.
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Welcome to this episode of Another Man's Shoes, and our guest tonight is Jason Bowen. Jason's a former member of the British Army, where he served as a Special Forces Communicator. Since leaving, he's set up the hugely successful the SF Experience, which takes you and gives you a snapshot and a taste of what it's like to serve with the UKSF. He's going to take us on his journey from where it all began the adventure, and also how the pandemic has helped the company evolve and shaped other people's lives, and what he's doing so they can still get involved, but from a distance. So tonight, jason, we welcome you onto the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Well, appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us. You're going to take us on your journey tonight which, uh, you know obviously from speaking to you in the past. You've got got a great story to tell us and we've gone through from the military, from your growing up and obviously, your events company which you've you've set up, which we've sort of helped you in the past, and, uh, you know, the people you've got coming on there will surely be listening to this. So, uh, obviously don't disappoint them.
Speaker 2:So I'll try not to remember we can edit anything.
Speaker 1:We can edit, uh. So what we try and do? We take people. You know it's called another man's shoes, the show and the idea is we're taking them on a journey of your life today and obviously also where those footsteps are going to continue to take you, uh. So let's start with the baby footsteps. You're obviously a northerner. You know you're north of southampton.
Speaker 2:We can tell were you from manchester with that accent yeah, well, just just uh, west, basically merseyside, cheshire, way you know I was, I was, I was born in cheshire, uh, lived on merseyside, uh, later on ineshire. So yeah, around that area, I've moved all around that area. I used to have a strong Scouse accent. I've lost that, thank the Lord. No offence to Scouse.
Speaker 1:Talk to us briefly through where you came from your life. What was it like growing up with you, your family sort of make-up school life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to sound like the cliche squad here or anything, but you know I was. I was brought up in a pretty rough area, to be honest, um, albeit you know the the fact the family wasn't roughened by any means I like to think that anyway um, but it was a pretty rough area, average kind of schooling. Um, you know, um, I was a pretty much a loner in school. I have to say that I was not bullied or anything like that, and I wasn't a bully, but I was pretty much just a loner, always knew what I wanted to do. You know, I had it in my head even from an early age I wanted to, you know, do something challenging, outdoorsy, military-wise, wise, and so, to be honest, schooling for me was just about getting through it and that's the way I looked at it and kept myself to myself and that was about it. I wasn't that, you know I did. I didn't really go for the a lot of the qualifications I have got. I did come out with a few qualifications, but it wasn't my aim. So, as I say, my aim, I just wanted to leave and get the job done, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:The problem is, when I did leave, I started hanging around with the wrong crowd. From the crowd that I didn't hang around, I went out my way not to hang around with in school, started hanging around with them outside, getting myself into all kinds of trouble, learning some decent tricks along the way, I might add, but ones I don't think I wanted to dispense on here. But it was just the wrong crowd. So I remember actually the day I was walking. This is how sad it is. I was basically walking with my mate while he was walking his girlfriend home. You know that's how sad we got. He says give us, give us 10 minutes mate an hour later I'm still stood there realizing what an idiot I was.
Speaker 2:And at that point that's the next day I took myself over to marley street in warrenton and signed on that dotted line, like I wanted to, in the whole school period, so all through school.
Speaker 1:You knew where you were going, so you knew you wanted to join the military. So school was just the tick in the box. You've got to get through it. You know, just keep yourself to yourself, try and stay out of trouble, even though I think growing up most people get in with the wrong crowd at some point and you either sort of see that and you address it and try and get away, or you end up probably getting sucked in too much. But was that your first sort of fray in the military? Was that in the uniform, or did you do anything before that?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, I was pretty much in in school probably down to hormones or whatever. I really didn't know what service. I knew I wanted military of some kind. I was, I was in the armyets, in the air cadets, the sea cadets, back to the army cadets. I just knew I wanted to sub it but I didn't know what. So, yeah, I'd pretty much been in the cadets for most of the time, learning some skill sets, yeah, and I ended up going back to the army cadets. So I pretty much knew that that's what I was getting, you know, guided towards.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's a really good organisation. The Cadets, I mean I joined the Cadets when I was a nipper. You actually learn a few good skills. That stayed with me when I first joined the military and I still think back about little things teaching you about the layering system when you're camping out and just good dress sense sense and how to ball your boots and how to iron your kit and present yourself, and I think it's just some really good skills there that a lot of people miss out on today and certainly when you join basic training it helps yeah, definitely and, to be honest, without knocking school.
Speaker 2:Yes, school, you need school, um, you know, academic reasons alone, but the cadets give me something that I knew I belonged to, which it brought up more discipline in me, self-discipline, respect and these kind of things, um, as well as learning a few tricks. You know, um, and you know the trade of being a soldier to a degree, so there was a lot to learn and that attracted me and also, I've noticed there was a bond, uh, of the guys as well, that I didn't have in school. Yeah, so straight away, I was, I was connected, and that's what I can say.
Speaker 1:That was uh, you know, on massive positive on the cadets we're a big advocate of the cadets here and we're talking to phil camping the other day, who's like a cadets champion, xscs, and I think some of the stories he was telling me it is really sort of like people that are in a rock and struggling in life. They're sort of getting in with the wrong crowd. Then they join things like the cadets and it really pulls them apart and it just kind of gets a bit of a grip of them and there's some really good stories that he sort of came out with and told us about the sort of success of it. Uh, so you obviously you leave school what's that? At 16 and then you decide to join the military well, I didn't join the military straight away.
Speaker 2:There was a gap there.
Speaker 2:I knew you know a few people who I spoke to. All the people, including my dad as well um actually advised me not to join the junior soldiers. Um, and he had his reasons. I think it was just because of what he did, but obviously you listen to your parents and you know your elders and so I decided not to join. I could have joined I believe you can join at 15 and nine months.
Speaker 2:It certainly was at the time I had that option, but I decided to leave it until I was 18. Was at the time I had that option, but I decided to leave it until I was 18. And in that meantime I just took on some, some menial jobs, dead-end jobs, just to see the time by. I don't regret that because I picked up some good trades, albeit short term. You know things like bricklaying. You know trades like this coming becoming useful later.
Speaker 2:As I say, when I left school, I picked up a few qualifications, not as many as I would have liked, but, as I say, I knew my path. So I went working for them. Two years, various different trades just waited, and the story I told you about hanging around with a friend while he took his girlfriend home. Um, I was just turned 18 at that point and it was a huge turning point and I can remember the day. It was just a huge turning point because in that time of having them jobs you know my so I was soul searching about who I was, what I wanted to be, and I was at that age as well, where your hormones are all getting messed.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that did it for me that day. It was just something clicked in my head. I thought what am I doing? What am I?
Speaker 1:doing. That was the trigger point for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and that's when you know, like I say, the history was there, I knew I wanted to do that anyway, it's just a matter of when.
Speaker 1:Um, so yeah, that was a decision made at that point so that night you decide that's it, I'm going to take the leap, you. You wake up next morning, you head down to the recruitment office and what? What regiment did you decide to join up with? Because most people usually end up in a different regiment to what they actually wanted to join yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm not any different to that. Um, I was exactly the same. I had the aspirations. I was joining the Paras and that wasn't my first choice. If I'm being honest, my dad was a tankie. He was with the 14th and 20th Kings Hussars but they disbanded so I couldn't join them. I think they're the Royal Hussars now, if I'm not mistaken. I did look at them initially, actually had my heart set on it at some point, but again, like in school, my mind changed constantly. I'm liking the cadets as well. I looked at lots of different trades, couldn't really fathom which one, and then I just thought I saw the paras advertised somewhere and I thought I want to go for that. My dad was talking me out of it, though. He was saying don't do that for various reasons. I wasn't listening to him at that point and I went to join her and that's what I went to win Marley Street with that in my head to join the paras.
Speaker 1:And then you ended up joining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, what happened was I went to Sutton Coalfield. I'm not sure whether they still go there, but you do a weekend at Sutton Coalfield to do all your fitness tests and get your tics in the box and things like that. To get in the paras you had to do, for example, more pull-ups, more press-ups, things like that, more physical. You had to have a quicker time on your BFT and things like that. I passed all that. It was at the next stage where it changed because I got the dates. Um, I had the interview, had the written tests, had the Sutton Coalfield then. Then I had the dates for Basic and at that point there was quite a gap between the last test and me going on to start my career and in that time my dad had worked his wonders on me. Being a dad that he was, he was pretty brutal in letting me know what he thought and it worked and, to be honest, I look back and I don't regret it. He talked me out of it because he wanted me to get a trade as well as being a soldier. That was his reckoning. I think it was down to his experience. So in the end, I ended up trusting that and I went back. I actually scored really well. In the end I ended up trusting that and I went back.
Speaker 2:I actually scored really well in the test and I didn't really know how well because I just wanted to know. I was aiming for the paras so I knew I'd passed enough to get in there. I didn't know that I'd passed to get into other units but apparently when I went back to discuss this with him, I'd scored really high and had quite, you know, quite a lot in front of me to choose from. I did look at the Rimi. I was actually going to go Rimi because that's what my dad said you know really good to get into engineers. I was going to go there. I thought the engineers as well. I ended up, long story short, ended up at Raw Signals. That's technically. I thought I could get a good trade off the back of that and that's what I went for. You know, I got the right amount of the scoring on the tests. I'd already completed all the physical tests, so it was just a matter of changing the name on a piece of paper, basically.
Speaker 1:Your aptitude? I was the same, because I obviously joined the signals as well, which was about my fifth choice, I think. So I wanted to jump out of planes, I wanted to be a marine, I wanted to do anything. I wanted to be a side door gunner. You know, all these like jobs. But they've got the posters in the recruitment office.
Speaker 2:But the guy recruitment office.
Speaker 1:He said to me he goes look, I'll give you one bit of advice. He said you can do all of that stuff, which is great, fun for however many months, years, you stay in. But the minute you get out, how many side door gunners do you see, how many tankies do you see? Now you're going to really sort of pigeonhole yourself what you can do in the future.
Speaker 1:So join a regiment with a trade, be it an engineer or signals, and get a proper skill set, get a qualification, and then, while you're within that regiment, you can diversify. So if you want to go and jump out of planes, just go. Like you know, become an airborne signal. If you want your special forces, you can become a special force communicator, and so obviously that's that's the branch I went down. I think anyone that's listening to this. The good advice is is you don't necessarily need to join the paras, you don't need to join the marines, because you can still join those organizations, but get a trade at the same time, which will see you for that career that you'll have after the military, which ultimately you will. So you've done all your basic training and then you go to your first unit. So where do they send you?
Speaker 2:Well, I actually opted for this unit. You have a choice. Whether you get given that choice is a different matter. You put in, I think it was, two or three choices in a priority order wish list.
Speaker 1:Uh, say again it was called the wish list, wasn't it? Because it was just a wish right that no one granted. That was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do recall um and, to be honest, depending, well, there was some units that you were guaranteed if you put them um, majority of them, as anyone knows that served when I did. The majority of them was germany based. Um, I had, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it I just met a girlfriend, or just started seeing a girl, um, prior to joining the army, and in that time of passing basic training, going through that and getting to my or going for the application for my working unit, that relationship became quite you know it become quite solid. So she didn't want me going away to Germany and so that kind of took care of my choices to be honest, uk based, and so that kind of took care of my choices to be honest, uk-based. So I looked at UK-based units and 2 Infantry Division was one of them, based at York. So I went for that and I got that straight away.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, not a bad unit, to be honest, uk-based, though there was a lot of downsides to that, which I found out quite soon. It was like a holiday camp. You know some guys like that and some guys treat it as a unit for when they want to. You know they're thinking of leaving as well, so they'll go to that unit. It's kind of like gets them prepped for getting out. I didn't know that at the time, but it was a unit where at the weekend everyone just bomb bursting, goes home. It was like empty camp and you could argue most of the evenings as well, and it felt like it was more in a nine to five job than I was in the army and I started getting itchy feet with that, to be honest.
Speaker 1:So what did you do to try and address that?
Speaker 2:Initially I was actually going to leave, I was going to leave the army altogether, but then I started coming to my senses and thinking, look, this is just this unit. So I was thinking of my options and I went to see the troop staffie to speak about what my options were. He laid some out in front of me and one of them was, uh, to work in the gym via pti. Go and do me akai pti course work in the gym, um. The other was, you know, there was different trades I could transfer to and things like that. But it was the actual unit and I was stuck with the unit. I couldn't move anywhere for a little while. So I had to choose within the unit, um. So I decided to go and work in a gym, go and do my PTI course, and that's what I did. Um, you know, I was lucky to enough. Lucky enough to meet um Kelly Holmes, the now Dame Kelly Holmes, who was working in a gym at the time at York as well.
Speaker 1:Was she Signals then at the time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was Royal Signals. She worked as a PTI in Royal Signals in the gym and I was training with her all the time inside the gym and outside the gym. Become quite good friends Again, though after a while me being me, I started getting bored of that, you know.
Speaker 2:I thought is this what I've joined the army for, because, you know, no offence to guys who were working in gym, but for me it was always. I was always doing stuff for other people all the time and it became like a very predictable each day and it's not what I joined up for. So again I come to that proposal in my mind what do I do? Do I leave the army? And I was actually in the process of leaving the army, which would have been pretty premature, to be honest. At that point, I decided to go and see someone who I found out, who was posted into the unit, and it was an SAS captain. I won't mention his name on here. He was posted in to 2Div. I didn't know who he was, but someone pointed him out and I had a word with him, and his words to me, which I still have in my head, were do you want an adventure? That's what he basically said to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um that's all I wanted to hear I just needed to look up to someone who's looking at me and saying do you want an adventure? Yeah, of course I do, and and that's uh. We had a good conversation off the back of that list it's difficult to explain, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because someone who's just spent their life in in the gym, or just been in the regular green army, as you sort of call it, just done with day job, they've never experienced what like this adventure, so to speak, what it's like, which is why it's very difficult when you go from being on that venture back to the green army. A lot of people then leave because they just they can't cope with this or the mundane day-to-day, because you haven't got all these things happening daily being sprung on you, and then next thing you know you're on a helicopter, your page is going off or wherever it may be, and I suppose, before we get into all that, what year is this we're talking about now?
Speaker 2:This is. This was early 90s, so around about. I was working in the gym for about a year, a year and a half, from around the end of 1991 to 1993, around that kind of era.
Speaker 1:Post-Iraq, one pre-Bosnia. So Northern Ireland was about the only thing that was going on at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's ironic because the first gulf I was actually on my driving course driving trucks around at the age of 18 and um, and I actually volunteered for that conflict. Um was not back because I considered myself fully trained soldier at that point. There was only me driving to do. Yeah, so if driving was the difference of me being a fully trained soldier or not, then fair play. But I didn't think so, um, so I volunteered myself, and a couple of other guys in my troop as well. What went to volunteer? Because we were like this is what we joined up for, but we just got knocked back because we hadn't we hadn't finished that driving course. So it was a shame, really. So we missed out on that just by by a hair width.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shame, but from what I hear, it was a bit of a boring one compared to yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so there was a lot of uh, a lot of uh, white handkerchiefs flying around. I believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I suppose, for anyone that doesn't understand, when I used to tell people I was in the royal signals, they'd be like what you're like a train operator or something. You stood, stood on the side of the railway, I'm like no, no.
Speaker 1:It's obviously not a very sexy regiment in one respect, but actually anyone that knows about the Signals or has been within it, there are some amazing opportunities. If you've got the fitness and you've got the right mindset, you can go down these certain avenues and then the adventure does start. A whole new world opens up. You get to play with some great equipment. You're obviously right up there, you know, as an operator, and so I think obviously that's what the captain that you bumped into. That is a pathway that he very much set you on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and you know it's, it was certainly changed my mindset straight away after, off the back of that conversation, my, the polarization of my brain was 180. It just took a 180. I suddenly become army barmy, I suddenly become, you know, fixated on the military at the extreme and I wanted to get out of that unit. I was in because I was surrounded by people that didn't want to be there and it was affecting me and it was rubbing off on me and I wanted to be among lads that wanted to do something and wanted to go somewhere. The gym, working in the gym, got me that to a degree. But speaking with the captain, you know special forces guy, he gave me that inspiration that I needed and if I'd have met him a little bit earlier, I'd have done it earlier.
Speaker 2:I was still young at the time, though, you know, early 20s I was at that time. But yeah, he said, if this is what you want, I'll sort it. And before I knew it, my application was getting filled out to go to a great unit called 264, which are basically SAS signals, and that's as soon as I knew, because I didn't know much about this unit. I didn't know much about it at all, not many people do, so it was a brand new thing for me, and I suddenly started to know much about it at all, and not many people do, so it was, it was a brand new thing for me on it, you know, and I suddenly started to learn everything about it, and that's where my path started.
Speaker 1:At that point then, so you decide you're going to become a special forces communicator. You're going to go to 264 and obviously operate alongside members of the SAS, and that isn't an easy journey in itself. The attrition rate is something like 80-odd percent on the course only less than 20 pass. So talk us through what that involved.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I started my knowledge was limited and obviously you know we're talking early 90s here, so I couldn't get on the internet and find all this information out. You know we didn't have the technology we've got now or the information or the sharing that we've got now. So everything was word of mouth and even more so like whispered by mouth. So it's all coke and dagged, hush, hush stuff. So I found out what I could. I knew I had to be fit. That was the main thing. I was already fit at that point anyway, you know, physically generally fit, but I needed to obviously look at how I needed to progress in what areas. For 264, your trade has to be spot on is the one thing. Your physical fitness has to be, you know, really top end, and your devotion motivation has to be there as well. So what I foolishly did? I got a Bergen on my back.
Speaker 2:I was in York, remember, and I was restricted with where I could go, time-wise and things like that, and also didn't know where to go. So I started pounding the streets with my Bergen on also didn't know where to go. So I started pounding the streets with my bergen on um, with my boots on, and, yeah, I was getting fit. I was getting used to having a bergen on me back because I knew that's what I had to do. However, I was picking up injuries really easily and then that was setting me back the date that I was given for my selection process. Um wasn't that far into the into the future and I didn't have much time to train. So I was pounding the concrete like um panic training, if you like.
Speaker 2:Um went on to the, got the dates, went on to my first court, well, went on to the course. I managed to grab a couple of guys interests from the unit to come with me as well. I think it was more like moral support, but they did say that you know they were training to do me as well. I think it was more like moral support, but they did say that you know they were training to do it as well, but I just didn't believe they were, because they never came training and you know, it was one of those things they come off on day one. They failed on day one.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry for laughing if they're listening, but you know it was quite comical because, because it was so predictable.
Speaker 2:However, I didn't laugh too loud because I didn't last much longer either, because my injuries had actually given me shin splints in my, you know, in my legs and um, and yeah, I got to a point where it was agony and I went to see the medic and he told me shin splints. He said you're not going to crack on medically withdrawn. So I was gutted. So the worst thing and anyone that's had this the worst thing is RTU through any reason. So when I went back to my unit, you know, I felt like I'd burnt a bridge there. I'd left. I didn't want to go back. It's not a nice feeling, walking, walking around, knowing like in your head or your heart that you failed something and you're back there. And I had to go through that and it had to be. I had to really raise my a game on the, on my attitude of trying to rise above. You know the banter that came with that. It got to a point, though, where I spoke to the staffie again and said look, I need, I need to get back on the next course. Um ended up asking, or they told me, if I want to, I could be posted into Hereford um, um and and do the course as I'm there already, so posted in as a green army signaler, um, and that's what I applied and I got it. I got given that.
Speaker 2:So it was a little bit. I was out my comfort zone a little bit. So, surrounded by beige berries and I I've got a blueberry on um and it. That was difficult in itself. I wasn't the only one, there was a few of us, but you know, the old crap hat syndrome came into it, um, which I just got used to it. To be honest, I got used to that.
Speaker 2:Um, it's not what I planned, um, but I got used to it. But being there actually put me in a better place to be in the right mindset to then go on and have a crack at the course. I had the hills on my doorstep. Uh, guys that were coming out with me, serious to get some hills done. Um, I trained like like no other time in my life on the hills and I got used to some of the routes that we'd be doing. I was up doing the routes, I was doing all kinds I come to the course and I was at the front of everything. I was at the front of all the PET sessions. I was at the front of all the tabs. I did really well and I passed with flying colors on the next one was that the summer or the winter course you did um, I did the some.
Speaker 2:The first one was the winter one, where I had the shin splints, and then I passed the summer one yeah, I did the.
Speaker 1:Uh, I was similar to you. I did the winter course first and I got into test week day one. Elam valley massively cocked up my nav, you know, ended up the only option I had was to v-dub, to withdraw myself off the course. But when I went back and did the summer course it was like chalk and cheese because obviously you got the extra hours of daylight, it's warmer, it's you haven't got all the wet weather and all the coldness of the winter, but knowing the routes, because you know it. And it's amazing how much time you can take out and how much confidence you've got because you think I've done this before and now to do it. And actually I know these little tricks, I've learned these little shortcuts, these little goat tracks and you sort of take and, uh, yeah, so but if anyone said to you now would you do the winter or the summer course, what would your? You know, it's?
Speaker 2:it's a difficult question and I still get asked that today and it is personal preference and, to be honest, you can have a really good winter and a really good summer and vice versa. You can have really bad off-growth as well. You know, in the winter it only takes a really hard snowfall to really slow you down and you know it's not the cold that will get you, it's just the ground conditions really icy, or you know's not the cold that'll get you, it's just the ground conditions really icy, or you know, really impacted snow. And the same with a summer. Um, you know the when I did my course, the summer course, it was intense heat. I don't do well in heat. So you know, I would personally say to people I'd rather do the winter course. But it does depend on the day, you know, right on the day, not just the actual season.
Speaker 2:Um, at least in the heat sorry, at least in the cold you can add clothes, you know yeah for it being cold, but in the summer, you know what you can't strip off naked and you've still got a radiator on your back in the form of a bergen.
Speaker 1:Um, you're still climbing inclines across the beacon, so you know you're already beyond the excessive heat, um, so that's why I prefer the winter, to be honest I mean, we'll talk a bit more about the hills in a minute when we come on to sort of like the tsfe, your company, uh, but did you ever get the pleasure of the old sickness you know, getting back, getting to the, uh, the wagon and the?
Speaker 2:next good reference. I mean that that that was rife in my day. That was rife and someone mentioned that quite recently and you know it's talked about, but I think some people think it didn't exist or doesn't exist.
Speaker 1:It certainly did in my day when I was doing it. Explain it to anyone that's listening who doesn't know what that is.
Speaker 2:Well, basically, you go on your tabs, on your routine tabs on the selection process. You'll go from point to point navigating and you get to each point. You get given another grid reference to get to the next point. You don't know how long that route is. You don't know until you get that grid reference where the next point is. You definitely don't know where the FRV, where the index, where the final point is. You don't know where that is. So each grid reference you get, you're hoping it's the last one, yeah, and you don't know until you get there. So when you get there, the sign of it being the last one is either a four-tonner, a twat vehicle Sorry, probably shouldn't swear that's right.
Speaker 1:family show.
Speaker 2:And maybe a medic or something like that, an ambulance, and that's a massive sign that that's the end. The sickness is when you see that and you get there, it's almost like your body. It's the same as when you know you're on your last mile of a marathon or something like that. Your body kind of just releases something and it knows you're coming to the end. It certainly does that psychologically. When you see that you do, you just release them and you know them endorphins, and you feel great, until you get there and they give you another grid reference and it's, it's a stab in the chest. It really is.
Speaker 2:Um, and that's the sickness. And every step you take after that you just you look, you lose the will to live because you, you have no trust in anything that gets said to them and and it's done purposely, it's done purposely. Sometimes it's a psychological test and they'll call you back because they want to see if you're going to crack on, because some guys will think that's it. I saw that vehicle and I thought I can get there, but that's it. And when they get there and told you've got another grid reference, they just take the Bergen off, sit on the Bergen and they've had enough. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Um, so it's a psychological test to see if you're willing to go beyond, beyond that preconceived, uh boundary in your head.
Speaker 1:But it's a good test, isn't it? I mean, we've seen it and you do see people sat there on their Bergen and they're broken because they've just jacked it in thinking that was the end and it wasn't. So they've had their notice and then it actually turned out it was, and they've literally just thrown away the last three, four weeks of their life and they've got to go back and do it again. Never at all, potentially.
Speaker 2:That'd be the most gutting thing as well. If you found out later that your oppo only went 500 yards and were called back, you jacked. I mean, how gutting would that be? But it is a test of have you got what it takes to go beyond, and that's what they're looking for at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Of course it is, yeah, and when you're in a real-world situation, it's going to be a lot more difficult than that yeah. So you sort of fast-forward you finish your selection process, you go through all the communications phase and escape and evasion and all the other bits and bobs and you get to the best bit of the course, which is the jumps course. So this is your first time, I'm assuming down at Bryce Norton. Yeah, do you enjoy that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's great, because sometimes there's a bit of a gap between the selection process and getting on the paracord. It depends on the course you're on, but the course I went on, I was with a lot of young paras, so you know like 18, 19-year-old paras, and there was a lot of bravado in the accommodation, you know, singing all the airborne songs and all that. It was quite funny, though, because them songs turned into little quiet whistles when they're on the c130s.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah it it was, it was enjoyable. It's, you know, parachuting it's. It's a, it's a form of transport to get you from up there to down there. That's the way I looked at it. It's not something that appeals to me or something I would take up as a sport I think some guys do, and, fair play to them, it's not something I would say I would go and do you know, for the time or as a hobby. I didn't mind it. I haven't really got a fear of heights so I didn't mind it. There was some guys that you know I haven't really got a fear of heights, so I didn't mind it. There was some guys that you know it was a shock to them, especially the young lads. If the you know, I was young myself but I was, you know, a few years older than these young para guys and some of them are just not quite made, made out for that.
Speaker 2:So it all depends. I mean, it depends on when you do it as well. When we did ours, like I say, it was early 90s we jumped out of the balloon. Now I know the balloons. We were the last stick to go into that balloon and it was in 1994, western on the Green.
Speaker 2:So you're in a balloon that takes you up 800 feet by a winch and that was my first jump. In fact that was my first. Two jumps was out of the balloon and obviously I'd never jumped before, so that was my first experience. So you're in this box. There's six guys going up, going up with this balloon from a winch. This thing's from World War II days, you know, and you can just hear the whistling, the wind whistling on the cables and it does put the fear of life into you. You know, as it's going up and you just basically the PJI at the top just puts this bar up and that's all it is is a bar, you basically just go to the front, you've got your reserve on your chest here and you stand at the edge and it'll just tell you red on green on go, and you just step off, but that feeling, then you're basically in free fall for a short time before your chute opens. But because you're dropping down.
Speaker 2:Unlike on an aircraft where you jump out of paradoors, you're jumping straight down, with no wind at all, so you've got to wait for gravity, for the acceleration of your body, to fill that chute.
Speaker 2:So you're in free fall for a little while. There's not a lot of time to open that reserve chute, let me tell you, on an 800-foot drop. So you've got to know what you're doing and anyone at Jumps will know. You've got to check for twists in your canopy because these are all PX4 round chutes. They're not the square chutes that you'll get nowadays. These are round PX4 chutes and they twist very easy. Not so much actually with the balloon jump, more on the paradors.
Speaker 2:So the first two are the balloon jump and then we go out in the C-130, then jumping out of the paradors, the C-130 being the main transport, military transport of Hercules aircraft. So you jump out of the parador and the aircraft's already doing around 120 mile an hour, equivalent land speed. So you shoot open straight away because it fills with that air. So it's a lot. It doesn't feel as bad as it does it quite a significant pull on your neck as it opens and a lot of the guys and I got them as well. You'll get twists, you know, if you don't exit properly, um, and if land with severe twist you're going to hurt your legs, but, yeah, my overall time there loved it.
Speaker 2:It was a break from the norm and, yeah, it's just like to say something I had to do to get my wings as part of the course and once you've finished that, you get your wings and that's you. Then your special forces community, that's you within them ranks, so that's the final element of that.
Speaker 1:This is like six months of your life that you've just given up, really isn't it? Because there's nothing else to get on with when you're on the course. It's just all about the course. But it's all about the next stage, which is joining your sabre squadron. You're going to go to a, b, d, g, um. Yeah, I don't think I'm putting anything new out there. I think it's been in every book that's been written since golf one. Um. Baltimore mitties are obviously all in c and e squadron if you ask them, because they don't know the makeup.
Speaker 2:So what troop did you go to? Well, I was assigned. You don't really get any choice with this, at least I didn't. I was assigned B troop, which you automatically assign the same squadron as the troop. Well, back then you was anyway. So I was assigned B Troop, which is automatically assigned the Sabre Squadron or B Squadron. So, like I say, you don't get any choice with that. So I didn't know one troop from another, it was just, you know, it was a troop, but, yeah, you're automatically assign a squadron. So, basically, you're, you're, you'll, you'll go off on exercise, you'll be on ops, you'll, you'll basically be with b squadron with what they're doing, not not all the time, sometimes you're seconded, like I was on certain, uh, certain trips, but majority of the time you're with your squadron yeah, and that's what that's the interesting thing is, because you've just spent six months with this group of guys that you become very close with and friendly with, yet the minute you go to your troops and your squadrons, you may not see those guys again.
Speaker 1:It is so busy. You know. They'll be on on different countries, they'll be on different notice, move be different places, and I remember I spoke to a mate of mine the other day. I was like I remember so, and so he's like mate, I haven't seen him since. I you know we finished the course and I think, yeah, he was there for like four or five years and he didn't see his guy again.
Speaker 2:It's uh, that's how busy it is the op tempo yeah, to be honest, the um, the guys I did my selection course with, when I think back of my whole Army career, I'm closest friends with them than anyone else and you're right in saying that I didn't really see them after that process.
Speaker 2:They went, apart from a couple of them, the rest of them went off to other troops and in 264, you are a very busy man, um, your feet don't touch the ground. I went from two days in york at zero to a hundred mile an hour at hereford, um, and my feet did not touch the ground. I'll give you an example on day two of me passing my para course and being accepted into my troop, and I was up sailing out of a puma helicopter, um, just outside of hereford, and you know, life changed dramatically for me, um, but the, the guys like to say the guys are very busy. So if you're not on troop training, you're on exercise or you're on ops and you're overseas. To be honest, honest, I can't remember wearing my uniform, my military uniform, at all when I was part of that mob, because you're off all over the place. The only time you wear your uniform is in camp, and I was hardly there.
Speaker 1:That's true when you're sort of saying about saying that the helicopters, that just reminded me of a story we were down where you were on about outside of camp doing some training. I think we were on a puma. We were in Augustas, but they had a couple of those back in the day, didn't they? They'd had off the RGs from the Falklands.
Speaker 1:And we were whizzing around and I think we were doing some sort of a show, for you know, the usual dignitaries showing, you know, room clearance or whatever, and um, but before that they said, right, you know, we're going to do some fast roping or up sailing out, but it's one. When you obviously you come down, you have to sail down so far and then you obviously you all sort of swing in together, don't you? You sort of the helo, um, but it's one of the guys birthdays and um. So the pilot thought it'd be a bit of a laugh because on the training area where we're at, they've got, they've got to make big, massive water bowsers everywhere so that they can sort of douse down the fires.
Speaker 1:So obviously we're all huddled together, sort of roped up, and he just thought it'd be great to hover over this big water bowser and then just basically lower us all down, give us complete dunk and come out, and bearing in mind this was like October, november, it's absolutely gibbering. Then he carried on flying around for 20 minutes. I mean, we were like icicles, but you're thinking about what an adventure. So obviously when you're on the um, in the squadron, you get to go on in these different teams. Um, did you get a chance to go on to the SP team or anything like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, first of all, I mean, like I say, it was zero to 100 mile an hour, like I said. So first of all, I went straight on. I was on exercise in Norway. So you know, you're doing the old Arctic survival stuff out there and it's an annual exercise. So we was out there and that was my introduction to Langlau skiing. I've learned how to ski in the trudos mountains before in the green army.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, I had a bit of a mouse about me. But langlau skiing slightly different, and I'll tell you something that gets you that, that takes your you know, that takes your fitness level up there somewhere. Um, we were, we were doing a lot of that, a lot of range work as well, out there. So, yeah, we, we went out. I was there for a month with B Squadron out in Norway. That was my. I got to know the lads. That was basically my first trip. So, you know, trying to integrate with the lads, getting to know who people were, skill sets, and who's approachable, who's not you know, because the regiment's no different to any other unit.
Speaker 2:You've got people you don't want to talk to and people you would. You've got different personalities. You've got personality clashes. It's worse so in a close-knit environment like this because you've got to be able to get on together, basically. So it's in these kind of environments that you learn that it was a lot of fun bloody cold at minus 30 on average, but it was a lot of fun out there, got back from there and we were straight on to the special projects team, which is probably more well known as being called the SAS counter-terrorism team.
Speaker 2:The squadrons rotate on that, but yeah, I was on that team for six months. You know you're doing all kinds of exercises, as you can imagine. There's lots of different scenarios you go through, but there was your fitness had to be just your fitness and your mental agility just had to be right up there. Um, you're working at the highest level for the highest level, and and and. So you know you've got to be committed.
Speaker 2:Now, with 264, you've you've got the option of you can kind of like take a back seat to a lot of it or you can be up there with it now with the guys in the squadron because, um, I got to know quite, you know quite a few guys really well and so the, the communication and the interaction was great. So I had a really good time on on the team and it's probably out of my military career probably the uh, you know the peak, yeah. Uh, when I look back on that, just for them six months I was in you can't leave Hereford in that time. You're on standby constantly while you're there. So I never had my green armour uniform on ever in that time. You're in civvies all the time or you're in the black kit, depending on what you're doing. But yeah, a really eye opener time, um, you're in civvies all the time or you're in the black kit, depending what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Um, so, but yeah, a really eye-opener, and that's when you think, that's when you know all that training was worth something yeah, when you're doing that kind of stuff, yeah yeah, I mean you don't want your pages to go off, but you do because you want to know what's going to happen. I suppose if anyone listening the special projects team, you know they're the guys that get called when an incident happens in the UK or potentially overseas. But typically you think about the embassy siege that would have been, the FCP team that were getting a shout and obviously the 7-Eleven, all that. They would have all been rolled out on all these different events that happened out there. So obviously at this point you're thinking you're going to get out, but did you any good trips? I suppose it was bosnia or something around about that time, wasn't it for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, this was all before your likes of your, um, your, your afghanistan kind of uh, conflicts and trips out there. This was all before that. So you could argue that we were living in a relatively peaceful time, lucky or unluckily. I mean, every soldier joins the army to be a soldier at the end of the day. Bosnia was my gig, bosnia was kicking off at the time, so we yeah, I went out there. I was seconded by a different squadron for that, so we was up there and basically we were occupying the house out there. So a small, close-knit team, there was five of us and it was basically working on intelligence, so going out and infiltrating different groups, getting intelligence coming back and reporting, reporting back. That was the main, the main job. Um, it had its challenges. Again, you're living with five guys.
Speaker 2:I was there in this particular house for around six months and you can imagine if you didn't get on with someone and you had to, you know you had to do everything under the same roof with these guys. If you didn't get on with someone, then it's pretty. You know you're in for a bad time. I wouldn't say I was lucky. There was a guy I didn't properly, you know, we didn't mow together. You're always going to get that. So it's just about using a bit of common sense and keeping your distance and stuff like that as much as you can. But again, you did have to be as one. You know we were there as a team, so you had to, you know, do your job.
Speaker 2:Basically Tough time. Six months is a long time to be in theatre, especially in a close proximity like that. And after that there was a break I came home for I think it was just shy of two weeks, I think it was about 10 days, and then back out there. I was there again for close to six months again and it was a slightly different feel to it. After that the war was over and it was more again, more of the intelligent gathering side of it.
Speaker 2:Um, and I was back from being in the house. Then I was in in sarajevo now in a bigger um, in a, in a bigger built-up area at that point. But the whole, the whole trip it wasn't my best time in the military, I would say, but um, the the job itself was great. It's just, I say, you're living and breathing in close proximity and you've got to act as one team. But yeah, it was an experience for me. I got involved a lot on the peacekeeping side of it as well. So there was guys not from the UK but it was guys from other countries that I was working with on the second phase that used to come into Sarajevo and there was a lot of hearts and minds going on at that period which I was really heavily wanting to get involved with. So that side of it was great as well.
Speaker 1:I suppose, and after Bosnia, this, when you decided maybe look at pastures, new get out, uh, so you sort of started resettling really to come back into civilian life yeah, and I, you know, when I look back I can pretty much think it was um.
Speaker 2:You know, I didn't fully enjoy my time in bosnia and I think it was a lot to do with that. So I was thinking of leaving. I was thinking about what I was going to do when I left, but when it came to it I really didn't know. It took me back to my school days again about thinking what am I going to do? Nowadays, when you join the army, you get given, you get loads of qualifications that are relevant outside. Back then they weren't so relevant outside um, albeit they're still worth something and you can still convert um. I just didn't know what I wanted to do um. I just knew I wanted to leave, but I didn't want to leave into into nothing. Back then, the army I don't know what they do now, but the army offered resettlement courses, so I took them up on that. But I also looked after myself and did a course myself as well. So I ended up doing a close protection course.
Speaker 2:Because that you know, let's face it that's the natural progression of military guys when they get out that kind of security, close protection, all that kind of stuff. So I did a close protection course, stroke surveillance and I also did a comms course as well, because obviously I've got you know, I have an in-depth military comms background. So I wanted something civilian-wise qualification. So I went and did a diploma in mobile comms and did that as well.
Speaker 1:So I was pretty set up for it for when I got out and did, I suppose, one of the interesting things you speak to anyone when they do their resettlement. They kind of do whatever the hot subject is at the time. So when I was getting out it was like, uh, fiber optics, everyone was talking about that and doing these mobile phone masks and rigging and what have you. And then I suppose it's probably fast forward 10 years. I'm sure it's something different now, computer stuff and the same yourself. When you got out, obviously you did comms and security, which was a big thing, um, but did you actually find that you ended up doing much of what you were going to resettle? Have you gone down a different path?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, you know I'm lucky like I say that I, I didn't just put all my eggs in one basket and go for one thing. So what I ended up doing?
Speaker 2:I looked at some close protection work, but it was, it was so rife at the time and the bubble had pretty much burst by the time. I was looking at it, um, the money went pretty crap, um, and every man his dog was doing, and I just I didn't want to be another. You know, another cog in that wheel kind of thing. So I decided to look elsewhere. You know I set up. Well, I started in surveillance. I'd already, you know, did some of that on a course. So I applied for a job in surveillance and I got took on and I worked for that company for around a year as a surveillance operative in the UK.
Speaker 2:Pretty exciting work. It's not as glamorous as people would like to think it is. There's a lot of dull down times as well, but in all, quite an exciting job. Pay well, not that well, and that's what took me away from it. I think I was aiming a little bit higher than what I could get from that role. So I looked at my comms qualifications then and I started getting into communications, built up a CV, sent it all over the place, saturated the market basically, and a comms company picked it up and I went from there. My feet didn't touch the ground. I was um, I was all over the place. I was lived in new york, uh, for close to two years, um, working on comms stuff out there, and then I was all over. I went. I was living in tokyo for a little while, and if anyone's listening about thinking about joining the army, um, do it, because this is what I I'm listening to your dad, who?
Speaker 2:tells you not to join a unit and join another one. Because this is all thanks to me, dad, because I had that background went out to Tokyo, was there, went all over Europe, contracted in comms, so it was pretty good and I didn't look back. I didn't look back on anything else. So that's why it was good to basically cast my net out quite wide when I left.
Speaker 1:So you've obviously done that for a number of years and then at some point something obviously the green eyed monsters sort of come back and you've sort of maybe got a bit of rose tinted spectacles. Come on, I'm looking back at my military past. I want to set up the special forces experience which has obviously gone on to be hugely successful, really well received by members of the public, got great feedback. But how did that sort of come about?
Speaker 2:Well, when I always wanted, like you say, I started, you know, my own self started coming out again where I was getting bored of the comms. Well, yeah, it's, you know it pays well, but is it really me? It is in one degree, but there's a reason I joined the army and there's a reason I did well in the army, and it's because there's that sense of adventure inside me. The comms job doesn't really bring that out, so it was just egging to come out, and so I started thinking along the lines of setting something up outdoorsy. Um, I scratched my head on quite a few different elements of that put some money towards things. I was going to go into it with a friend of mine who who, uh, had a lot of money but didn't know what to do with it. Um, so I was gonna. You know, we were in conversations and then it just I just got sidetracked with work. And this is what happens when you just take your eye off the ball and you can become a rat race. And that's what started to happen.
Speaker 2:Tragically, coincidentally, and very tragically at the same time, three guys passed away in the Brecon Beacons in 2013. Now, I obviously heard about that initially and felt quite. It felt personal to me because they were trying to do what I had done. They were on a mission to better themselves, to get out there and do well, and I felt so much for them and I felt so much for the families as well. So I kind of like reached out, reached out to one of the parents to see if I can put a memorial event on for them or something, because they were. There was a lot of political crap going on in the media about it all and, um, I felt sorry for the families because they had to go through all that. So I decided to put on a memorial event, organise it. I set up a Facebook page and you know, what I wanted is to walk around the route and take anyone with us as a memorial and have two minutes silence at some point and invite the families over. Little did I know how that was going to turn out. When I put the Facebook page out, it started getting momentum and momentum and momentum, to the point where I started having to become a manager of an event. Now, it's not something I'd ever done before. I was totally out of my league and it's not what I set out to do. I thought I'd just be walking the route with a few guys, so it turned quite huge quite quick and a lot of attention was coming to it. The idea was you can come along, there wasn't any charge, you just come along and you do the route. We decided to do the Fandance route, which is infamous within military ranks, so we chose that route and when it had finished, we give the two-minute silence.
Speaker 2:Around a week, two weeks after, I was getting a lot of emails asking to do something like that again, but under different circumstances, obviously happier circumstances, and I turned it down flat straight away because that was so stressful for me, having to put all that on. After, you know, after it started escalating but yeah, it's after a while I started getting a feel that I missed it. You know it was a weird. Anyone knows it's been through hardship Might be really difficult at the time. You look back and you start missing it to a degree and that's what I did.
Speaker 2:And then I started answering then calls and wanting to set something up and before I knew it I'd set a fan dance up the first fan dance event and got quite a lot of interest again and this time they were paying customers. The first event did really well and it just rocketed from there. From there I felt I was in a position where I was an event manager and recreating. The idea was to recreate what I'd gone through on my special forces selection process, what I'd done on my course, mixed in with what others do on their sf courses, um, and try and mix it all into the mix to put out some, some events replicating it yeah, and having seen the courses you know, I think I first came across your company, the special forces experience.
Speaker 1:Great name, brilliant. I think it says what it does in the tin. Uh, when I was up at brecon I think I don't know whatever's going for a little bimble up the hills, I saw, I saw you there, I saw the uh, the wagon, and so you know the tent and all set up. I was like all these people I don't think I've ever seen so many people in brecon because obviously, years gone by, 20 years ago, you went out to Brecon and it was just like soldiers and the odd rambler. Now it just seems to be like fleet services. And so I sort of looked into it and I thought, brilliant, well done on you, then sort of joined you on the events and it's really well coordinated.
Speaker 1:I think all the people that come there are obviously really motivated. They're coming from all over the UK. I sort of see all the online chatter about it and that is obviously all very positive. People are very engaged. And then what you've done, I think what's really clever is during the pandemic you've almost re-rolled the company. You could have just sat back there because your whole company is all about being outdoors, being on the hills, what have you? You haven't been able to do that, so you've almost taken the hills to the people, and you, you started the virtual series, which I think is it's pretty genius.
Speaker 2:So just explain how that came about yeah, well, you know there was, there was, you know, without a shadow of a doubt. Like any business, um, it's had its ups and downs. I mean, it's been going for over seven years now and there was times when, you know, it was never a business to me in the past. It was based off of an unfortunate tragedy but, as I say, I was looking at outdoor stuff anyway, but, from where it came from, it was never a a business. It was always something I enjoyed doing. I enjoyed bringing people together and, you know, giving people an opportunity to do what I've done, but without having to join the army to do it, and that's where it came from. So I got a lot from that. There was times, there was dark times where, you know, even though I didn't treat it as a business, it was a business. So there was obvious times when you know there wasn't as much income as other times. I was working on the side, so I wasn't having to pull a wage from it or anything like that. But it did struggle sometimes when I experimented, if you like, putting bigger events on, the outlay was huge and the income wasn't as big and so I was making losses on some and I started having to be that business person. At that point I decided, look, I need to expand on my staffing level. So I brought other people in and as the events got bigger, the group of staff became bigger as well. Today we've got quite a really strong core team and I've got a, an event manager, I've got an event coordinator. So I've these people have been brought up through the ranks, if you like, within tsfe, and that's what makes it what it is.
Speaker 2:When the pandemic hit, you know, for me it's lucky it hit when it did and not back in the day when I didn't have that infrastructure. So when the pandemic hit, I was in a position to step back a little bit and be creative and try, as we do from the military days improvise, adapt and overcome. And that's what I did with TSRV. I looked at the events and thought, okay, what is it about the events that people love? And I stripped everything back and took the raw elements from that and put them into virtual events.
Speaker 2:Um, our virtual events are pretty exclusive in the way that we still bring people into a brief all together, albeit remotely, on on platforms, um, and we still follow them. They, you know, we're following them everywhere they're going and they're still having to phone into a safety number. You know, there's a lot of things that we do from the events that we know people enjoy and they come to us. For that I had to deploy into these virtual events. They still get a medal. They get it sent out in the post. That's the only difference. I give them a virtual handshake online and it gets sent in the post.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of chit-chat in the Facebook groups. We get people involved and it is a bit like a brotherhood and a sisterhood. It's talking getting people involved. It's not just the event, it's, it's a, it's a family kind of atmosphere as well where we can give advice, take advice, and there's a community, a strong community, and I think that's that's the key to it and that's important. So, yeah, the virtual events are doing well. Um, and it's sometimes you feel guilty saying that you're doing well in such a such a harsh environment as a pandemic, but again, you've got to look at how you can survive and I think that's that's the nature of the beast of an ex soldier, isn't it?
Speaker 1:or you know is is having that kind of mindset it is and I think you know one thing I know is everyone's really engaged in it, but especially in these times, you know, obviously the nhs talk about these sort of five steps to mental health and you know you kind of tick all of those off within what you're doing they're talking about. You know, get off the internet and, like you know, speak with people and whilst you can't necessarily do that in person, your course is allowed to do that. You know, getting out and getting exercise and learn a new skill, you're sort of throwing that all out there. So I think that's where you know, when we've been in this really dark period this last 12 months, what you've been doing online is obviously it's been a beacon of light for a lot of people, I'm sure, and it's also very inclusive, isn't it? Because you don't necessarily need to be some sort of superhuman to come and do it. You can.
Speaker 2:It caters for for people with many abilities and that's it what I tried to do. Um, the same thing what I did with the virtual just stripping back the, the things that we can't do, and concentrate on things we can. I did something very similar with the events as a whole people maybe that didn't want to join the army for whatever reason, uh, but still love all the. You know all the um, all the good parts of the army, even guys x. You know guys who were in the army. You know um veterans and that they come up. They come up for a reason, but they'll see something about the sf experience that they like because they like that part of being in the army.
Speaker 2:They just didn't like all the bullshit that came with that um you know they're not having to sign up to anything when they come to us. They're just, you know they're taking part in the events and it's all the um, all the all the good parts from the military. So what we try and do is give is try and relay that onto the general public. When they come to us, you know we're not training them, we're not um. You know, giving them things we we shouldn't be giving them. We're giving them an experience and it's it's a life experience that we're giving them.
Speaker 2:So it's not just about running up and down hills, it's all the discipline that comes with it, it's the planning, the preparation, it's the mindset, it's all these things and the community. We mustn't forget the community is massive because the pandemic has shown us all that without community we can start becoming quite depressed and anxious because, as humans, we're social animals, we need interaction, and anxious because, as humans, we're social animals, we need interaction, albeit even if it's on Zoom like this. We need human interaction. So what we do, especially on the virtuals now, is harness that and try and distribute that where it's needed. Even on the actual events we do that. People feel like they belong to someone and that's quite important and I feel proud to have achieved that, um, but I think I have by, by understanding it, by understanding that's, that's what you definitely have as an outsider, you know, I think you've really smashed it and done extremely well.
Speaker 1:So, yes, it was a great thing to especially being obviously x squadron and inform it just makes everyone proud around you. So so, moving forward, obviously you've done very well with the uh, with the tsfe events, and obviously long may that continue. Uh, I imagine you probably get a few phone calls or emails every now and then asking you some obscure things, or can you help us to do this? Because I suppose, unfortunately in our line of business, um, it can sometimes attract people, maybe I don't know an order sort of personality, should we say. Have you had anything uh like that in your case?
Speaker 2:yeah, we've, we still do quite constantly, to be honest. Um, we get some, you know, we get some really good emails come through and then we get a contrast of absolutely diabolical stuff. We're being asked to do or requests. The good stuff is the likes of, for example, top Gear, when we were on the Top Gear show. So the BBC wrote to us and you know that was really good and it led to good things because we ended up being on a series of Top Gear.
Speaker 1:What series, plug it. So people on YouTube plug the episode they need to search for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Plug it. So people on YouTube plug the episode they need to search for. Yeah, so the Top Gear it was. I've got to think myself now Was it Series 28, episode 2,? I think it was Series 28, episode 2. I believe that's what it was. And yeah, that was a great time, because that just came from an email.
Speaker 2:Obviously, they'd looked at our um and they looked at my background, contacted me. They wanted um, they wanted basically an sf group to race against what was then the new land rover that was just coming out, um, the expensive, the 70 grand one that they've just developed. Um, it was to racing. It was like man against machine kind of race. So it's supposed to be us uh, with um the presenters, uh, some of them being in a vehicle and one of them being with us um, so that's the way it went. However, last minute they they couldn't get the land. The land rover wasn't going to be available. So paddy mcginnis ended up um developing his own little green four by four thing, um, and it was a basically a race against that in the cairngorms. So it was something like 25k or something. We we were doing um and we had to just pick our own routes. The vehicle picked its route, we picked ours and it was a race to get back to the other side of the mountains and that it was.
Speaker 2:I spent quite a bit of time there. That was in the winter as well. Um, I spent quite a bit of time filming that. People probably don't understand how much um you get. You have to shoot and film and just to get a short bit, but we were there for weeks on end, uh, doing takes, um, but that was a great time.
Speaker 2:And this is all off the back of TSFE, so I'm proud of that. But the and also, you know, just before the pandemic I was also invited to be on, which it didn't materialize because of the pandemic, but a company, an American company, contacted me and wanted me to be part of a global race, a race around the globe, representing the UK with a few others using all different kinds of transport. Whether that's still going to be on the cards or not, I don't know, but the pandemic cut that short. But the downside of getting these emails what you were just alluding to there but the downside of getting these emails, what you were just alluding to there is we get requests like can you teach me how to fire an AK-47? Can?
Speaker 1:you teach me how to steal a car, please, that's because you're a scouser.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's what it is, maybe I'm being tested somehow. How thick does a pane of glass have to be to be able to come down a rope and smash through it? We get all these kind of things and sometimes you think it's someone whining you're up. But I'm actually concerned sometimes with some of the requests and, to be honest, we we either, depending on what it is, we either politely say no or we just ignore it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, an outfit like ours, you're going to attract some of it, it's the nature of the beast and I mean you've taken us on a great journey tonight. So plans for the future when are you heading off to?
Speaker 2:Obviously the pandemic has kind of put a big pause button on us to do certain things. Um, we've, um, I've got sister sister companies. I mean I'm currently running four companies at the moment which again are all on pause because the pandemic um, but we've got subsidiaries of tsfv, so we've got a training wing um, we've got trips out to finland, we've got trips out to Nevada. We put Nevada Survival Desert course on even before the pandemic, which was very successful. No doubt some of your listeners will know someone that's been on that Finland, as I say, antarctic Survival course. So we're running more than just events. Now. We've expanded into courses. We bring in professional guys um, for example, um the escape and evasion, the sea team actually coming to help us on our survival uh courses that we run, and overseas as well, um the directing staff who are, all you know, the ex-special forces guys from various sf units. They help us and they join us on these, on these courses and events. So we're expanding a sister company called rocket um which looks, you know, we, the events that we develop for rocket are your non-military type events and expeditions. Like we, we took, uh, we took guys up to kilimanjaro and we were about to do everest base camp, but then the pandemic kicked in, so that all this is waiting for the pandemic to. We took guys up to Kilimanjaro, we were about to do Everest Base Camp but then the pandemic kicked in. So all this is waiting for the pandemic to cool down, get the green light and we can roll it all out again. And that's my dream is to roll all this out and basically to continue putting on a space for people to come into our world and see what it's like.
Speaker 2:It's not all about. It's not all about aggression. It's about, sometimes it's hearts and minds. It's about having the mindset. It's about being able to go from zero to 100 mile an hour just at a click like that. It's having the discipline to not be 100 mile an hour when you don't need to be um and to be back. You know to be at zero. And it's about being, you know, compassionate as well as passionate and you learn life skills and that's what I want to try and, you know, broadcast to the outer world, because it's not just what people perceive as being military and that's what the sf experience is about. And guys that have come on and had a go with us go away knowing that and hopefully they you know they bring more people in that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:I think you've really typified everything that I've seen as well there, and uh, long may it all continue. I look forward to seeing some of the new courses. You can be running some of the adventures, and anyone who gets to go on one of them is very lucky, because obviously they're limited places and so they are going to learn some fantastic skills and really get a life experience that they won't get elsewhere. Um so okay, one of the questions we sort of finish off with on the show and we ask our guests is uh, you know, in your grab bag, if the balloon goes up, there's a problem going on somewhere. You've got to get out the house quick. What three items would you have in that bag?
Speaker 2:Oh, good question. I definitely, you know it stands to reason. It would be. My boots is one, my Bergen. I've got to say that, haven't I? Because I have got a grab bag. This is just the army in me. It's as if I'm expecting something to happen. I don't know that you know the end of the world apocalypse or something like that, because my Bergen is is always packed for that scenario. So I've got that. But yeah, I suppose I suppose my Union Jack mug, I mean that has to come with me.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to say that's going to be my third, because I do make a good brew, it has to be said.
Speaker 1:That is a big mug as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Okay, it has to be said, that is a big mug as well. Yeah, brilliant, okay. Well, I think we've all enjoyed your journey tonight and uh, obviously this be going out and uh, we'll get lots of people and feedback and it'll be going on facebook and instagram. So obviously, any questions that come back, we'll forward them onto you and I'm sure we'll be able to sort of see them and answer them. So if anyone wants to find out more, they want to follow your journey continuing on, you know they want to go to the company and do one of your events. Where do they contact you?
Speaker 2:They can go to the website which is all the Ws, the sfexperiencecouk. They can go Twitter at TSFE Events or the other social media platform at TSFE Events, or just stick the SF Experience into Google. You'll find us Facebook. We've got a large platform on Facebook. If you join us on our private group, we've got a private Facebook group. It's the TSFE Members RV. If you join us there, if you request access, we'll get you inside that group. We've got close to 3,000 members in that group. We've got just under 50 50 000 followers on our main page. So if you want to join our private group, that's where all the chit chat goes on and all the exciting stuff and we'll tell you things before we launch them. Um, and we give people in our private group first uh, first access to our tickets as well.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of there's a lot of um experience in the group as well from other members. I sometimes put video logs in there, like bergen packing uh foot care. You know how to do do well on on the events and things like that, so try and get inside that if you can we'll do well.
Speaker 1:We'll obviously promote that and we'll talk about that when we put the link up to the podcast. But from us on the show another, another Man's Shoes, we appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to come on and take us on your journey. So thank you very much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me cheers mate.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope you all enjoyed that show.
Speaker 1:It was really good to reminisce with Jason, who we served in the same unit, and it's interesting to see the different perspective. Jason has obviously taken it the next step and, with setting up the SF experience, it's been hugely successful and I've really enjoyed watching it and we've helped out on a few events. I think that everyone that has joined in they've become part of this community and even through the pandemic you can see online and all the chatter how they're all coming together, they're doing their fitness and it's been a great rock for each other and mental health and support, and so I would urge anyone who is interested in joining one of these events that go online, go on facebook, go on instagram, google it the sf experience and you know you'll be warmly welcomed. You'll thoroughly enjoy the event.
Speaker 1:No, it won't be easy, but nothing in life ever is that's well deserved. So please, for everyone who's enjoying the show, please subscribe, share it, tell your friends and join us on our next journey when we've got a fantastic guest coming on. But for now, that's us. That's Another Man's Shoes.