Another Mans Shoes
Interviews with fellow military veterans and adventurers about their experiences of war, the lows and times of hardship, joining them on their journey and how this has shaped their lives in the most extraordinary way. Comedy moments, dark humour and witty banter.
Another Mans Shoes
Climbing Everest: Rebecca Stevens' Journey from Kent to the World's Highest Peak
Rebecca Stevens, MBE, the trailblazing mountaineer who became the first British woman to conquer Mount Everest, shares her gripping story of passion, perseverance, and high-altitude adventure. From her humble beginnings in the serene village of Kemsing, Kent, Rebecca reflects on how her love for nature and the profound impact of her father's death fueled her quest for stability and adventure. This episode unpacks her winding journey through various careers and educational pursuits, leading to her unexpected yet thrilling career in mountaineering journalism.
Join us as Rebecca recounts her transformative experiences covering an Everest expedition and the unparalleled moment of standing atop the world's highest peak. She contrasts her serene summit experience with today's overcrowded conditions, shedding light on the life-threatening challenges climbers face in the "death zone." We also explore the evolution of mountaineering, the significance of the Seven Summits, and the delicate balance between modern technology and traditional survival skills.
Rebecca's story doesn't end on the mountaintops; she shares her renewed appreciation for local nature during the pandemic and her dedication to inspiring future adventurers through motivational speaking and coaching. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom, exhilarating tales, and practical insights for anyone captivated by the allure of mountain climbing and the quest to push beyond one's limits.
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welcome to this episode of another man's shoes. We've got on with us today rebecca stevens, who I'm going to introduce in a bit. What wants to go on to? First to say thanks to everyone still for the continued downloads, really enjoying sort of seeing those numbers improve and seeing the charts go up, which is a fantastic.
Speaker 1:One of the things we've been asking in the last couple of podcasts is if people can shoot on to apple it iTunes, because they're the only guys at the moment that allow you to actually do a star rating and leave a short review. So if you're on iTunes or you have got ability to get on there through someone else's account or you can ask them to put a little review on there, it does really help push us up the charts and make us more accessible to other people. So I'd really appreciate it if you could pop on there and do that. Or if you're on spotify or amazon, you can just uh sort of subscribe and follow us and that also sort of does something with the funny algorithms and helps. But anyway, without any further ado, I'm going to bring in rebecca to tab on to another man's shoes today.
Speaker 1:Rebecca stevens, mbe. Rebecca became the first british woman to climb mount everest in 1993 and subsequently got the MBE from that, and the following year she went on to become the first British woman to scale the Seven Summits, that is, the highest mountains on each continent. It's something that's actually close to my heart and one of the challenges I'd love to be able to achieve, and being able to get Rebecca onto the podcast today and talk about this is fantastic. So, rebecca, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2:Well, really, today and talk about this is fantastic, and so, rebecca, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure. Adam, thank you for inviting me. We're all quite excited to listen to your journey, but I don't want to jump straight into the the main event. So we're going to have to go through the usual. We're going to, we're going to see what. What was the build-up to you know, conquering all these great ascents throughout the world? And, uh, we'd like to talk about your upbringing and you know what really formed you to to take this really interesting route and become, you know, one of the first to achieve these great, great, epic events. Uh, so whereabouts were you born? You sort of local to the uk, or were you born overseas?
Speaker 2:no, I was very much born um the UK in the southeast, in Kent, in a village called Kemsing, which is near Sevenoaks, and I was born in the house that I grew up in for 18 years, which was actually.
Speaker 2:I'm always fascinated by that actually, how some people have moved around an awful lot when they're young and others have sort of the stability of one place, and how that affects us. I'd really like to use this study on that actually, I mean, for me it was important and I do have a strong sense of space. Um tragedy then struck for me because my father died when I was 18. I'd just left home, gone to university, and my mother sold that house, stayed in the same village. But you know, both those things both losing a father and the home, funnily enough, really did, you know, hit me hard and I've always looked for that for my own family having a place where you're grounded, from which you can fly if you like. But I'm very happy to accept the fact that, uh, traveling is um in your youth also has effect um, maybe in a different way, maybe not, I don't know it's just as I say something that really interests me.
Speaker 1:It did and so as a sort of growing up, because kent's not particularly well known for its big mountains and sort of tall hills, so was it something early on you developed an interest in, in sort of the outdoor life, adventure, fitness, or how did that evolve?
Speaker 2:well, it's quite interesting, isn't it? Because I mean you're so right, I mean we couldn't really be in a flat environment, although we were just at the bottom of the north down, so we had a gentle incline of I don't know, 200, 300 feet probably, um, but um, holidays in those years, all the way back in the 60s, I mean they're, you know, going abroad, never. What happened? Once, I think, we went to switzerland, um, but otherwise it was, you know, packing the car and spending a day driving down to the west country, stopping off in the new forest for breakfast, and you know, we used to go to dartmoor or to yorkshire, and dartmoor in particular just won my heart.
Speaker 2:I remember seriously crying leaving there one year when I was a kid and I I loved again, you know, it's not high, but the undulating landscape. I loved the flowing rivers, I, I loved that living in nature. Um, and it's interesting because when I came to Mountain View, which wasn't until much later in my mid to late 20s, it felt like a coming home in many ways. So I never had the experience in my childhood, it was never part of the scene at all, I wasn't introduced to it, I didn't even do things like DV. I remember watching something about that on television. I think, oh, that would be really nice to do that, but we didn't do it at our school.
Speaker 2:The about that on television. I think, oh, that would be really nice to do that, but we didn't do it at our school. The opportunity wasn't there. But it's something inherent in me and I think it's a combination of nature and loving to be a part of that and feeling the weather and the smells and the landscape. I mean, the aesthetics are very, very key for me. I just love looking at the mountains and being in the mountains and that sense of adventure where you're going somewhere different Culturally. I love going to more remote places where people live very differently to what we've been used to in the UK. All those things coming together have just been completely, completely magical for me. All those things coming together have just been completely completely magical for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is something about the mountains, the hills, the big outdoors that just takes your breath away and you just feel that all the stresses of life just just release, I suppose because it's so majestic and you're this little person in this great place and it makes you realise, I suppose, what life's all about sometimes and you just want to go out and enjoy that. It's not about the rat race and having to sit at work, and I think the mountains have got a great way of just clearing your mind and putting everything right again.
Speaker 2:I absolutely agree with that 100%. There's nothing like being there and I know it's very special to talk about this now, but being in the present and it's part because you don't have all the distractions that you might have at home, particularly, you know, in the modern world with things pinging around you all the time. But I don't know, you're just thinking about that moment it gets down to the simplicity of living. Even simple things like washing your clothes in a river somehow become rather joyous. And I'm not pretending that I want to wash all my fabulous clothes in the river every day, but, you know, when you're allowed that opportunity to have time to get down to the fundamentals, like that, it really is wonderful and, I think, very good for us.
Speaker 2:And you know, these days I'm leading treks.
Speaker 2:I'm not climbing up mountains, but I'm climbing through them and and I'm not pretending that's the same, by the way there's nothing as exciting as having the sort of objective of getting to the top of a mountain but nonetheless trekking.
Speaker 2:It offers the vast majority of what you're getting on a mountaineering expedition and that joy of being in the mountains. And I always say, if you, if you're walking, very simply doing very little other than getting up in the morning, having something to eat and walking for seven, eight, nine hours a day in a beautiful landscape. It takes about 10 days and then your mind is completely cleared, and I was talking to a neurosurgeon about this and it was very interesting because I don't know the neuroscience. I'd love to know more about it, because that's about the time you have thoughts in your neurocortex, whatever I'm probably not even using the right term, um before they get sort of filed in the back of your brain but of course, most likely has new stuff coming in all the time, whereas if you allow your lies to be a bit simpler, like that, it is really metaphorically clearing. You know your desk desk finding everything away.
Speaker 2:And then what happens? I found repeatedly again and again after trekking for that sort of period of time ideally even longer the important thing comes to the fore. It might be I'm in the wrong job. It might be I need to move houses. It's usually something really quite important. And now when I'm with people trekking, I'll often say at the beginning of a trek just be prepared. Yes, because this happens not just to me, it happens to lots of people that I'm with as well, and you know, things can change quite radically when you allow yourself just time to reflect and be in that sort of environment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the mountains, the hills, hills, just the great outdoors. It doesn't matter. You could be walking along a riverbank, you know just, but it does give you that clarity in life and I was talking to a chap on the other podcast.
Speaker 1:We did a mental health podcast and you know we talked about the fact that a lot of people are taking pills or they try to overcome whatever demons they've got. Um, but a doctor once said he said if I could prescribe fitness and just getting out of that door, you know, it would solve most of my patients issues. And um, the the chap I was talking to, his sort of uh philosophy on, that is essentially his uh.
Speaker 2:His heels are not pills and he said because there's there's nothing that helps him more yeah, famously in our house I say I'm taking the dog for the walk and everybody knows actually I'm taking me for a walk you're getting a nice excuse to have a little animal on the end of a lead, but that's what I do every day.
Speaker 1:It's true, isn't?
Speaker 2:it extraordinarily helpful is.
Speaker 1:My wife says that quite a lot. She says, well, if you're uh, you know I'm stressed, I'm getting a bit snappy or very hard bit of time, it works like just take yourself up to the mountains for a for a week, just just get out of here. I think that's her way of saying to me just leave. But I'm more than happy to look for an excuse to get out. So it works. So you, you've sort of started getting involved and you obviously did the family trips you were sort of talking about, uh, at this point. Obviously did you sort of when you school, did you go to university, did you go to further education?
Speaker 2:Yes, I did. I had a bit of a hiccup there.
Speaker 2:I first of all went to Edinburgh and I was doing landscape architecture, which I thought would bring together all my interests, because at school I did sciences for A-levels. But had I been the stroppy person I am now, I would have crossed arts and sciences. That was my intention, doing maths and English and art. But we're talking about the 70s grammar school. They didn't think art was a serious subject. Ah, what a way is that? So I did all sciences but knew I had that creative side of me and I absolutely see it in my kids now. Whenever I'm looking at scores for them, I kind of go immediately to the art department to see how serious they are. So I did landscape architecture, thinking it would bring the two together. But it didn't work for a number of reasons. Um, it actually was slightly at the Scottish University, so I was going back a little bit. I'm a great fan of the Scottish system, but it was different to the English one.
Speaker 2:My father died and I had a rethink and I ended up studying agriculture at Y, which is part of London University, Again, thinking it would be to do with the land, to do with science and more general. And I did that for three years and then I went into journalism from that, First of all writing about agriculture and then switching. And I had one brief spell on a computer magazine, one of the early ones, which I stuck for about three months and, yeah, that didn't work for me. But then I went on to work for one of the Financial Times magazines, which was fabulous because it just allowed me the autonomy to write about whatever I wanted, which included quite a lot of travel and we were a small team. Brilliant time, I mean. We're still all firm friends, we. It was one of the most explorative times of my life actually, and the editor would sort of get an invitation to it for a trip somewhere and he would flag it up in the office and we'd sort of share them out between us and I used to go to trips to Africa and the Caribbean, all over the place.
Speaker 2:And so through my 20s I somehow managed to continue what was a love of travelling, which actually the turning point I think was. As a student I met a friend's brother who came back from Kenya to see his parents and said you know, if you want a job out there, I'm sure I can manage to find you something with a friend. At that point I thought that's not going to happen and I went home and my mum said well, you must do that, of course. How can you not? It was just like what an opportunity. And anyway, I went and spent a long summer out in Kenya and it was unquestionably one of the happiest points of my life. You know, just sitting on the edge of the Rift Valley, having picked lemons, squeezing them to make lemon juice, to take on safari and you know it was very spoiling and very beautiful.
Speaker 2:And from that point I managed somehow every year to find four or five weeks when I could go off doing this sort of stuff and tried all sorts of things. You know, hang gliding, I went diving and then it was in my late 20s I said I was 26 or 27,. I went to a lecture in town I was living in London at the time, which I don't know quite why I was so curious about it. It was just an article about these climbers going to K2. And I thought, oh, it'll be interesting. I went along to this lecture. It turned out that they had a motive which was to invite people to the base camp to help fund for their expedition.
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 2:And you know I wasn't earning a lot of money at the time. I couldn't afford it. But I went up and said, listen, hey, why did I write about it? Yeah, the answer was yes, but I failed to get a commission to write about K2. You know now, everybody knows what K2 is.
Speaker 2:But at the time time it wasn't a big mountain in people's psyche. And then, a couple of years after that, one of the climbers on that expedition a guy called Roger Meir had remembered I was a writer was this time going off to Everest asked if I would like to report on this Everest expedition. It was on the north side. I said yes, and Everest, this Everest expedition. It was on the north side. I said yes, and Everest being Everest and the bigger name, I got a commission to write a series of articles actually from the weekend FT and off I went and that was another adventure.
Speaker 1:So did you have to fund these adventures? Or I suppose, because you're writing about it, you're supported by the company. Yes, the FT funded me, fantastic. And so, yeah, because the equipment it's not like. If you want to take up running or some sort of water sports where the relative cost to get into that sport is fairly sort of cheap, you can do it cheap and you can spend as much as you want, I guess. But with anything to do with mountaineering, when you start introducing safety equipment and Gore-Tex and warm kit and tents and you know, the list just goes on and on and on and it's evolving sort of yearly. That's an expensive hobby for someone to pick up a tab. So if they're doing that, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, to be fair, I mean, on that trip I bought myself a pair of walking boots, and that was it. I got an Expedition Vortex jacket from the team and otherwise I just, you know, cobbled together tracksuits and clothes and really that was it. I borrowed a tent when I was out there.
Speaker 1:But interestingly enough you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:I mean there was a point when I was expecting I mean the brief was to write about base camp. We're going back to 1989 now, so it was very different then. There was no communication. You know, there's no satellite communication, nothing. I had to go. It was just at the time when Amstrad's were coming in. You're probably too young to remember those when they were the first word processors and, of course, there was no electricity supply.
Speaker 2:So I managed to get hold of an old typewriter, which of course was becoming obsolete at that time, and I bought myself Tipp-Ex and carbon paper and paper and I went off with this little self-contained mechanical typewriter and when I got wind that somebody was going back to Kathmandu I would write my little article through the night and I'd give it to them physically, get to the EDNF offices they were the sponsors and fax it to London. I was just posting these articles into a dark hole. I had no idea if they were getting back to London, but I learned later that every one of them did get back. But, as I said, my articles were just about what people did and ate and talked about at base camp. But I had 10 weeks then, so you know, of course I wasn't going to sit there and do nothing.
Speaker 2:So I went up to the advanced base camp on the north side, um, and actually not just to the east ronbook, the central ronbook as well, where different expeditions the chileans and the japanese were there. We were going on the east ronbook to climb the northeast ridge, which at that point was unclimbed. Um and uh, I felt myself surrounded by these people who are completely and utterly passionate about climbing this mountain. I go right, you know what's it about. And I felt the odd one out that I didn't share in this complete, all-consuming passion they had. And so I thought I'm gonna have to work out why climbers climb, and and to do that, I climbed from the advanced base camp up to the first camp on the northeast ridge, which was just over 7 000 meters.
Speaker 1:This was a very roundabout way of saying the kit, I needed kit and I had nothing except for a leather pair of because the temperature changes quite a lot at this point, because you're what, the initial base camp, what's that?
Speaker 2:at sort of four or five thousand meters, how high uh, just over five thousand meters the base camp, um, and then the advanced base camp. You said that the topography on the north side of the mountain is that, um, you have, you have to go from the base to the advanced base camp to actually get to the foot of the mountain proper way. Start climbing, okay, and that is for for layman and for me, 13 miles. And I remember when I was talking to the climbers I said how far is it to abc and advanced base camp? And they said 4 000 feet. And I was looking at the map going no, it's not 4 000 feet, um. But you will know, mountaineers only talk in vertical intervals, they're not interested in the horizontal.
Speaker 1:That crow flying doesn't mean anything to them.
Speaker 2:Doesn't mean anything to them. So 4,000 feet to climb, 4,000 feet, just whatever. 1,000 metres, 1,300 metres or something was a distance of 13 miles. Yes, so it was quite a long distance actually, particularly at that altitude. I mean, people were whacked when they climbed.
Speaker 1:And you're already at what is quite a significant height anyhow, so you're not doing this from sea level.
Speaker 2:You're going from 5,000 and then going up to 6,000, 7,000. I'd have to look at the map to get the exact altitudes, but base camp was just over 5,000. Abc was just over 6,000. And then the first camp was 7,100 metres.
Speaker 1:So for people that are listening to this podcast, we try and give them a bit of context about what that height is, maybe something they can relate to in the UK. So everyone's now going to Brecon. That seems to be the new place that people have suddenly found. They'll do the Penny Fan. That's probably like 600, 700 feet, I think. If that what's Snowdon, Is that about 1,000 metres.
Speaker 2:Yes, snowdon, is that about a thousand? Yes, snowdon's over 3000 feet. Yes, that's what a thousand meters Um and Ben Nevis is the highest, isn't it? That's the highest, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's it. We haven't really got any any big ones in the. In the UK Weird is like baby mountains yeah.
Speaker 2:No, we're, we're, we're. You know nothing over um you know 1500 meters, nothing over 1,500 metres. Somebody's going to correct that, because. I don't know the exact altitude of Ben Nevis, but I know it's around 4,500 feet and yeah, I mean the base camp is over 5,000 metres.
Speaker 1:And you're getting into serious territory. Then on heights.
Speaker 2:That's higher than anything in Europe.
Speaker 1:Mont Blanc's 4808 from memory. And what is Everest? Is it 8848?
Speaker 2:8848.8. They measured it this year and they've added 0.8 of a metre. Fantastic, it's really annoying because 8848 is a nice round number and now you have to add 0.8 to it.
Speaker 1:It is, but if you've got a tattoo.
Speaker 1:it's not too bad you can change it at the end. You haven't got to worry about scrubbing it out. So this is the thing You've now gone from writing about these climbers to actually becoming part of the fold, to ultimately actually leading it and then doing something that no one's ever done. Looking back, could you see how that natural progression happened over the years, sort of leading it and then doing something that no one's ever done. And it's like you. Looking back, could you sort of see how that sort of natural progression happened over the years?
Speaker 2:I think I have to correct you to say that nobody has done what I've done. They have, you know. I mean, you know other people have done what I've done. Um, you can break people down into categories the first british person or, in my case, the first brit, first British woman and then you can correctly say I was the first British woman, but other people have done what.
Speaker 2:I've done before so you know, to be clear, I was the first British woman and I was the third woman in the in the world to climb the seven summits. But where I stand now, in what? 2021? It was a different time then.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because when I was standing on a timeline in the early 90s, I look back with a degree of envy to the climbers in the 1950s who actually I was lucky enough to know, because one of the most wonderful things for me that's come from all this was an invitation to be a trustee of the himalayan trust uk which, um, you know, the himalayan trust was set up by edmund hillary in the 60s and, uh, it supports sherpas in the sense that it helps them help themselves. It's it, you know, it engages them, they do the work. If you know there's any money required, we can step in at that point, um, but it's a wonderful charity and, very selfishly, it's enabled me to keep in touch with the Sherpa community and that part of the world which is very important to me. Um, uh, but, um, where I was at oh, yes, I was I was looking back to the 1950s, um, when they had the mountain completely to themselves. You know, we didn't in the 1990s, when they had the mountain completely to themselves.
Speaker 1:You know, we didn't in the 1990s or in 1989.
Speaker 2:There were lots of expeditions there, but it was on the cusp of the commercial era. So in 1993, there was one commercial expedition. We called them Hall and Ball, gary Hall and Gary Hall Is that right? Rob Hall and Gary Ball, both who sadly have died since in the mountains. But now we know that Everest is almost exclusively a commercial operation. So there's been a massive change from 93 to 2021. And you know it's different. I'm not saying that if I weren't 21 now I wouldn't want to climb it. I'm sure I would. But I was just extraordinarily lucky not only to be climbing that time, but the day that we climbed to the summit there were only three of us on the summit pyramid there waserson, cammy, cherry and myself. There were three other climbers who actually we passed early in the day to turn back, so we had the whole summit pyramid completely to ourselves I mean I can't imagine how I was so lucky to have experienced that.
Speaker 2:You know, we were kicking our own steps and forging away. And when you say nobody done before, of course they had done it before, but that day it might have been as if they hadn't, because, you know, we couldn't see another person in the world we had. We had the upper reaches of everest and the views over tibetan plateau and, and, and you know, the stretching east and west on the nilas. To ourselves it was.
Speaker 1:It was remarkable really that's sort of polar opposite of what it is now. There's the photo that came out. I think it was two years ago. Um, was it? Nim's die took a photo. It just went global in 24 hours. I think it was everyone, was it? Uh, is it? What's it called the death zone, something there's a particular part of of everest, and everyone was sort of stacked up, sort of waiting to go to climb the ladder or whatever well, you've just given me opportunity actually to fill in a bit that I wanted to.
Speaker 2:When we're talking about altitudes, because altitudes per se perhaps don't mean very much, um, but there is a reason that altitude is important, two reasons actually. One, the higher you get, the colder it gets, and probably even more importantly, the higher you get um, the less oxygen there is in the air, and that's a sort of double whammy, because oxygen we need for our metabolism and if we don't have enough, then it's actually more difficult to fight the cold. So the death zone that you just mentioned is an area over a somewhat arbitrary height of 8,000 metres above which people can die simply because they're too high. Not because they fall off, of course, that's possible as well but but but simply because they're in an environment where there isn't enough oxygen to sustain life. Yeah, so the problem there on that summit day is the majority of us not everybody, but the majority will use supplemental oxygen for that last day, and you can only carry so much.
Speaker 2:Your body is weakened, so you might carry a couple of tanks on your back, so you've got a limited supply of oxygen in order to get to the top and back down again safely a round trip of 18 hours. But if, for whatever reason, you're benighted and you spend longer than 18 hours, you set off in the middle of the night. But let, whatever reason, you're benighted and you spend longer than 18 hours, you set off the middle night. Let's say you're benighted the following night. Then you are up a creek without a paddle because you're in an environment where you really shouldn't be, that doesn't sustain life, and you don't have what's needed to survive in that environment, namely oxygen, and you're not going to have sleeping bags and tents either, because that's too heavy to carry and if you were to carry all that you wouldn't reach the summit, so that last day you're out on a limb.
Speaker 2:And yes, that photograph that Nim's Day took illustrated a queue of people in the death zone, actually in the very highest point of the death zone on the summit bridge leading from the south summit of Everest towards the northern highest summit on Everest.
Speaker 2:And looking at it was terrifying in a way because it's so narrow there that two-way traffic is actually quite difficult. I was talking to one of the guides up there and he said I got the impression it's a bit like driving on a very narrow country lane where there are passing spots Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So there are a few places where, if you're brave enough and you don't suffer too much exposure looking down like a vertical face of a mile and a half or so then you can pass somebody on the road going the other way. But it's very tricky and of course you get these bottlenecks of people. So people are forced to just wait when they should really be moving, all the time to wait, and of course when you're not moving you get cold and your oxygen is running low. So it has created another dimension, a dangerous dimension from there being so many people. But just to balance that argument, if I may, that photograph is taken on one day, and in a season there may be only one day like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe two days, but not more, because today, with very sophisticated weather forecasting that we have easily accessible by satellite, even non--everest um, then, if the weather doesn't look good for a few days, you go. Well, hold on.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna wait for next thursday, when it's perfect and everybody's doing the same thing yeah yeah, so you know, you get this crowding on one day and people are just waiting for that perfect, perfect day but do you think, and I guess these commercial companies and probably the government, and there's a couple of responsibilities in there for Everest, because it falls within, is it two countries, depending on what side you go up?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Is this on?
Speaker 1:the border of Nepal and Tibet. Tibet being a part of China. Yeah, so most people are going via Nepal, are they? Or is that more common?
Speaker 2:People talk about that side the most and, to be honest, I'm a little bit out of touch. I mean the Chinese. I'm not sure they didn't close it on one year. I mean the first time I went, I went from the Chinese site and it had been closed for a little while, prior to 1989. And then it opened up again. But you know, hillary andends, to climb just by where the southern routes of southeast ridge, from true nepal and there's arguably, I think yes, I, I think talk to a guide I think there are more commercial expeditions on the south and north and do you think I mean?
Speaker 1:the opinion that seems to be out there in the press at the moment is that they should really be restricting the licences and the amount of people going. It's got so commercial, the mountains getting ruined, littered with everyone that's being up there and I suppose there's quite a big environmental cost to be paid.
Speaker 2:I think this needs to be looked at from all angles, and it's been an argument that's been rumbling on for a very long time I mean even back in 1993, there was a sense there were too many expeditions and as a result of that, the Nepalese government upped the license fee from $1,000 per head to $10,000 per head, overnight, from one year to the next, and they argued at the time there should be just one expedition on each of the routes on the southern side. Um, most people climb by one route now, by the way, but there are different routes you can climb by, and people were prepared to pay ten thousand dollars. They thought, goodness me. And so now that they opened the floodgates again. So so there are many expeditions, as you.
Speaker 2:The thing is this that it has become an industry, a tourist industry, a climbing industry where people's livelihoods depend on it. So we have to be very careful about that, that we're talking about local employment. Essentially, one thing that has been put forward and I think it's a very allow the Sherpa community and other local people in the climbing industry to guide people on those mountains as well. So it would spread the load, but there would still be loads of work.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that would be responsible as well.
Speaker 1:That would be the responsible thing to do. In any event, it would be responsible as well.
Speaker 2:I think it would be very sensible. I mean, unfortunately, you know, those of us who are old enough to remember the days when you had total freedom to do what you wanted in the mountains, and that's what it was all about. You know, dare I say, if you wanted to go and fall off, go and fall off.
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean. It was that tremendous freedom beyond constraint and beyond rules that was part of the attraction of it, and I recall, you know, walking over passes into empty valleys in Tibet where there was no satellite communication, and if you tripped and twisted an ankle or broke a leg, you know you had to sort it, you had to extract yourself.
Speaker 2:Now you just ring up and you know the help's there in a helicopter and the magic's gone. In that regard, that's self-reliance and things that has disappeared. But you know I'm a pragmatist. We live in a real world. Um, people's livelihoods do depend on it and I think personally it just has to become more professional and you know people need to be looking at it in that regard and doing it as well as they can. You know the parallels, like in the Alps with skiing and climbing in the Alps. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1:That's quite comforting, because when we got back from Mont Blanc whenever that was two, three years ago we suddenly thought, right, that's it. We're obviously seasoned mountaineers. Now let's just go and smash everest, because why not? Um. So we phoned up a couple of companies and said, like we'd really like to to do this. What do we have to do? Uh, and two or three companies, they all came back and it's reassuring. Actually, what they said is that we'd love to take you, we'd love to take your money, because it's an expensive trip, it's not, like you say, just to get the permit and then the flights and then the guiding and everything that adds on top of that. Um. But they all said look, what are the mountains you'd be climbing? So we sort of told them that what we've done, they said not high enough. You know, you need to be going and getting some of the other high peaks of the world. You need to be getting six, seven thousand meter climbs in um.
Speaker 1:And that's when we came across the seven summits, because up until that point maybe I'd heard of it, but it hadn't really registered, uh. So I thought, okay, what are the seven summits? You look at it and they said let's go and crack some of these and then that'll really put you in good stead to see if you're actually good enough to, even if you can get up one of those, then you know, then we'll talk to you, but if not, um, you know, come back another day. So that sort of takes us on really onto the seven summits, because I Googled it and I thought, well, what are the seven summits? Whatever I thought it was in my head it wasn't Half these mountains I'd never even heard of. But there's actually sort of different definitions. It seems to be that people have got different opinions about what the seven summits are and so what are the seven summits?
Speaker 1:Is there like an official? This is what is right, widely regarded as an agreed.
Speaker 2:Well, I think officially there are two versions, um, and there's an agreement about six and seven mountains, yeah, but a disagreement about the seventh. So the first guy who climbed wall seven was a guy called Dick Vance back in the 80s I think he was actually a businessman who was challenged to it and he did that. He climbed Kosciuszko in Australia, which is the highest mountain in Australia. It's also a little pimple that sits between Sydney and Melbourne, and I climbed it when I was down in that part of the world after a big Sunday lunch.
Speaker 2:It's strong, you know, on. Actually, I was so impressed by the British National Parks, I have to say at this point, because you know we had those beautiful, beautiful stone pathways that we take for granted, but you know they're beautifully maintained and they integrate with the landscape and they're just lovely.
Speaker 2:In Australia sorry, australia, you know great country, but they had this sort of metal fire escape type arrangement up, kosciuszko, that you were supposed to walk on to stop erosion, but you're clanking away in your boots. It's very uncomfortable and not very pleasant experience. So Kosciuszko is the first Seventh Summit as defined by Dick Vance. Then there was I think it was a Canadian photographer called Pat Morrow and he redefined it and he sort of rejected Kosciuszko and went instead for a mountain called Carstones Pyramid, which sits on the island of New Guinea, north of Australia. The name changes all the time. It's called Eranjaya when I was there. I think it's called Western Papua now. But if you look at the tectonic plates, then it is on the Australasian tectonic plate. If you look at the geopolitics, it's a part of Indonesia, thus a part of Asia, not Australasia.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So there's this little technical thing going on, but Carson's Pyramid is very much more interesting by a long way than Kosciuszko, so that's the one that I went for. And then later in the day, when I was in Australia on a sailing trip actually, and we were there we climbed Kosciuszko.
Speaker 1:And it's Mount Cook, because I was in New Zealand a couple of years ago and I wish I'd cracked that because I thought that was part of it. But is that?
Speaker 2:No, it isn't Just a nice mountain Highest in New Zealand.
Speaker 1:I think isn't it Highest in New Zealand? Yeah, I've just had a quick look on Wikipedia and again, it depends who you believe and what they write on here. It's self-edited. Okay, so that takes you into Australia. So if we started from the West, what mountains Does that start over in the Americas?
Speaker 2:Oh, we could do it that way, or we could do it much more easily in my head chronologically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly. It takes three to climb. Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2:So the first was Kilimanjaro, in Africa, yes. The second was Mount Denali, which is in North America. The third, in my case, was Everest, which is the highest in Asia, okay, then Elbrus, which is highest in Europe, and then Castan's Pyramid, highest in Australasia, and then Aconcagua, which is highest in South America, and then, lastly, vinson, in Antarctica.
Speaker 1:Got you and in terms of, I suppose I was almost expecting you to say Everest at the end, because in my mind that's almost the pinnacle, but I suppose you do them as they come along.
Speaker 2:Well, it was interesting because you said you know, you hadn't ever heard of the Seven Summits, nor had I ever heard of the Seven Summits. And it was actually what came about.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had Everest in my sights after that first trip when I went there as a journalist, that's what I wanted to do. Then I went to Africa with a girlfriend of mine, lucy. She actually called me up and said I'm off to Africa, what should I do? Because she knew I'd been there as a student and by the end of the Spain conversation I sort of gate crashed her holiday. We went to Climacanamajaro together. Not thinking of it as part of the seven summers at all, it's just something I had seen when I was out there and you know I was drawn to it Then Denali in North America.
Speaker 2:We climbed together as a training expedition for Everest, so I was now part of this growing team, all of us based in the UK. Pretty much, I think we were in Chamonix and we all flew out there, because Denali is a big, cold mountain. It's nowhere near as high as Everest, but it's just below the Arctic Circle and so it's a really good training expedition for Everest. And, as it turned out, we were hit by the worst weather in 30 years. It was all over Newsweek and you know I was actually worried about what my family were going to be thinking about me and whether I was all right, because you know, we were stuck in a snow hole for eight days, um, in a storm, and, uh, finally popped our heads and out out of the snow hole and we're able to continue climbing.
Speaker 2:But it was a hideous year. Yeah, 11 deaths and it was just just horrendous. Um, but it was actually coming back from that sitting on the plane and I remember it very clearly, the conversation coming up about Seven Summits I thought, oh, what's that? And then I sort of thought, oh, I've done Kili and I've, you know, I've done Denali and I'm off to do Everest. And I thought, if I get up that mountain.
Speaker 2:I sort of made a little promise to myself that I would carry on and do the remaining four mountains, that's amazing, and I suppose the difference is that Aconagua, so that's South America, is that Argentina? Yes, it's on the Argentinian border.
Speaker 1:What's that like? Is that sort of snow peak there, or is it sort of shale? Well, it's like a big lump of shale.
Speaker 2:Honestly speaking, you know it's covered in snow sometimes and it's got a snowy face to it. I mean, there are interesting routes you can find to climb on it. Uh, we climbed the normal route, which is technically not interesting at all, um, but it was incredibly challenging nonetheless, because we climbed it out of season and there lies another story. Um, but essentially, after everest, I gave up my job in order to climb Everest and I had this sort of dream that these four remaining mountains of the seven, I would wander around the world slowly writing a book about each continent as I climbed this mountain.
Speaker 2:Because, let's face it, I didn't have a job to go to. But the reality hit me when I realised that there was another British woman, jeanette Harrison, who also wanted to climb the Seven Summits. And the reality was, when I spoke to my sponsors, dhl, who brilliantly sponsored on Everest, they said well, listen, if you're not first, there's no money.
Speaker 2:So, I had to then race and climb five sorry four mountains in five months to make it possible, and that meant because Jeanette was a mountain ahead of me. She climbed Everest shortly after me in September 1993, and she'd also climbed Aconcagua. So I had to sort of catch up and overtake, and so Aconcagua, which might normally be climbed in January or February, I had to slip into the schedule in October.
Speaker 1:And it was a cross in many ways in the seven summers.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, when I spoke to people about it they said, no, don't climb it. Then too cold, too windy, too dangerous. All this negativity kind of you know, washing all over me and I thought, well, I've got to do it then. So I didn't have much choice. And finally I spoke to a Chilean pilot on the phone?
Speaker 1:I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:And he said well, I've flown over that mountain many, many times and I've climbed it a few times October. Not a great idea, but you might be lucky.
Speaker 1:And that's what you need in the mountains.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you know we went for it. There were four of us in that team, very deliberate. The other teams for Carl Stans, albrus and Vincent were just two, mainly to keep the cost down.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But Akon Kagura, I thought no, we've got to have four, because it is high, it's what? 23,000 feet, something like that. It's cold and you, you know there's a probability one of us will get altitude sickness. So we don't want to leave anybody on their own. We need to break into teams of two, and that's exactly what happened in the event.
Speaker 2:Um, and I was climbing, uh, with john john barry, who was a leader on the everest expedition. Just the two of us left in the high can and it was so cold. I remember leaving the tent once taking the mistake of taking my gloves off and almost instantly I got frost nipple over my fingers. I remember diving back into the tent and the wind would pick you up off your feet and dump you like you know, a paper bag in a park, um. So we sat it out for a while and there were two other people on the mountain. They were kind of hardcore cold weather people. They underestimated the mountain, dare I say. They didn't have this kit they needed. They turned back and then the next day we went for it and, as luck would have, it.
Speaker 2:I mean, as I say, I keep using this word luck, but you know you need an element of luck in these things and we climbed above the wind into still a very cold air but completely still no wind, and we made it to the summit, that's brilliant. But nighted on the way down. No tent yeah.
Speaker 1:But I suppose you got this sense of euphoria. That was your last mountain, was it aganagra?
Speaker 2:no, no. Then on to vincent and antarctica vincent.
Speaker 1:And so is there a particular mountain that, for whatever reason, stands out for you, as I suppose I could ask you this question in many ways what was the hardest, what was the best or the most difficult? Um, but is there one that sort of stands out that is your most memorable, for whatever reason? You know something that you maybe look back with very fond memories.
Speaker 2:It was but you know what? They are all so very different and actually that's one of the things that drew me to it, because, you know, a true mountaineer's challenge would be to climb, for example, all the 8,000-metre peaks, 14 of them, which are all in the Himalayas and the Karakoram One. I really don't think I'd be up for that.
Speaker 2:But secondly, climbing a mountain in every continent offered this incredible variety. You know, you're walking through different landscapes, meeting totally different people, and every single mountain had a very different character to it. You know it was high and snowy, or it was rocky and sharp, and you're walking through rainforests to get to it. You know, going to Antarctica was different again. You know 24 hours of daylight and pristine landscape, and all of them are very different.
Speaker 2:But if you have to ask me my favorite mountain, I'd have to say mount kenya. None of a sudden and I think that's because we're all complete romantic softies and because I've been there at a very impressionable age, when I was in my 20s, and then I went back to climb it, um, and we climbed it by way of the ice window route, which I think has since melted and, you know, fallen off sadly, um, but it's got wonderful names gates, the mists, and batty and anelion and point john, and, and you're walking through landscapes with elephant and buffalo to get to it. And then you're standing on the top and there's this wonderful wide triangular shadow cast over Africa and it's just, you know, wildly romantic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to do that. I mean I've never really been. I think we spent a bit of time in Namibia. I mean that was just such a beautiful country, but Africa's got so much to offer it just needs to be explored, but sadly it's not the safest place. Some of the nicest places aren't the safest places.
Speaker 2:Well, I was in Ethiopia just the November before last. Where are we now November 2019. And we all know what's happened in Ethiopia before last. Where are we now November 2019. And we all know what's happened in Ethiopia and it's tragic, absolutely tragic. It is.
Speaker 1:With your kit that you sort of when you started out sort of back in the 80s, and looking at what's available today, what do you think the biggest I suppose progression there has been? Something that you didn't have back then that nowadays is almost a critical part of what you take up there. It's such a good bit of kit. I mean, I was talking to a chap the other day called Colonel John Blashford-Snell. He's an interesting chap and I asked him this question. He said for him it was Gore-Tex. He said the advent of that it was just a game changer for their kit and I didn't know in the mountaineering world if there was something that you now have that maybe was less advanced or wasn't even around not so long ago.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a very good question, and Gore-Tex would be a very obvious answer for somebody. He's a sailor, isn't he? And you know, gore-tex is a wonderful fabric and you know people don't, I'm sure most people do, but you know, it allows you to breathe within it, um, and yet it doesn't allow water into it, which is is amazing. Interesting enough that high altitude it isn't so relevant, although I have to say I wore a uh, you know down suit which had a gore text channeled to it. Um, on on the day I went to everest and it was sort of comforting that to know that if I was benighted I had to sit in the snow, then it would offer me protection from any down, but generally it's so dry up there yeah that it's not such an issue and there might be somebody who knows of a better fabric than me.
Speaker 2:but but down, there's nothing like down or traditional down to keep you warm, and that's still true at Altitude. And if you look back, I did actually work on a programme looking at materials once going right back to the 1920s when Mallory and Irvine were climbing in layers of silk and wool and all natural fabrics, and I tried out these fabrics in the Alps, actually dressed as an Edwardian lady.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine? The?
Speaker 2:long skirt and all the rest of it, and the temperature regulation from these clothes was really good, until they got wet. Yes, and I spent a night in a snow hole and it got wet and then it was incredibly uncomfortable. But I come back to the fact at extreme altitude you don't often get wet. So you know, down is a really good thing for clothing, certainly Now. If I were into technical climbing now, I'd probably come up with some sort of ice axe, which has probably revolutionised it, but I'm not, so I'm now sort of trekking through the mountains, um, and I'm wearing kits for very many years to be, perfectly honest, um, but if I was to ask answer that question in the general, I would revisit what I hinted at earlier, which is the sophistication of weather forecasting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's super important um, I think there's also that reliance. Uh, a lot of people nowadays, you know, in every community. Even if you just get in the car and you say someone or how we're getting there, they go, I don't know, I'll just stick it in the sat nav. You think, well, if I gave you a map now and you tried to look at that, or have you actually sort of thought about this in your head and tried to think about the route? People don't do it because they go straight to technology. But then we've just lost that basic, I suppose, ability to get ourselves out of of issues, because once the technology stops working, we need to understand how to read a map and compass or how to look at the lay of the land. You know, the sun rises in the east, sets in the west. All these very simple methods and I know it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's when your brain was formed. I won't hang on to that being ancient, but the fact is I use satellite communication in the car, but I find myself looking at a map even if it's a Google map before I go, because I want to know in what direction. Actually, technology is amazing there because you can go onto Street View and you can see the building that you're heading for when you're driving on the road. Oh, there it is.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, there's that cedar tree or whatever it is to sort of make you into it, so it is fantastically sophisticated, but I still have to picture it yes I need to know myself where I am in space, if you follow me, so a map for me is something that I still need, actually, that's really important.
Speaker 1:I think that's what sort of sets a lot of people out. When we've been doing sort of navigation courses, we've been out is people that the people that are picturing whatever that feature may be on the ground. Right, we know that in 500 meters we should be seeing a re-entrant or there's a cairn or whatever it is, but the sat nav, your gps, may not tell you that and also your gps may not be right for whatever reason. So you should always challenge that, but you can't challenge something if you haven't got something the basis to challenge it with.
Speaker 1:And uh, there's so many interesting articles out there about when you sort of hear about like military patrols and their radios stop working, they have to use morse code, but they've stopped. No one knows how to do that anymore. Or you hear about people that can't light a fire because they've relied on matches for far too long, and just these simple things. I think when you're on the mountain, which is probably one of the harshest places on the planet, you need to, I suppose, have a plan b. You can't just rely on that one bit of care.
Speaker 2:And also I I think one of the things lovely things about being in mountains is that if you're there long enough and there's only a thin bit of canvas separating you from the weather or you're in the weather, you develop a sixth sense, you get back into a very primal state of feeling the weather and, and you know, feeling your environment around you, which is another thing that I think is so wonderful about trekking and being in the mountains and things. It's reversal to the true nature of who we are, rather than masking it with so much that we've created in our daily lives, which makes life very comfortable, but it also removes us from the ground in who we are fundamentally and our connection with the environment.
Speaker 1:It does. I think that's so true, and so I just did a quick wikipedia on you before this, uh, um, before we sort of jumped on the podcast, and one of the things that struck out is that after you finished the seven summits in 94, uh, you got picked up for tomorrow's world. Yes, I used to absolutely love that show. Can we start a petition to bring it back, because it was brilliant?
Speaker 2:yes, it's, one of the ones.
Speaker 1:Again I remember from my childhood.
Speaker 2:It was like Thursday night, tomorrow's World and Top of the Pops yeah, some of the things.
Speaker 1:Every now and then you see these little snippets of Tomorrow's World. It comes up and it says they said that we'd have this in 20 years and here it is. And there was so many things they got right where they actually sort of forecast. And sure enough, here it is, except the flying car that's still. I'm still waiting on that one.
Speaker 2:Be patient, I'll be there in time.
Speaker 1:I hope so.
Speaker 2:So, after dealing with the seven summit summit, I guess that was an expensive process going through all of that. So you had to get back in to work. Did you go back into journalism or did you go down another avenue? Well, I, I mean you know half full churches and dhl did sponsor me all through that um, so that that was incredibly helpful. Um, now we're going back to the 1990s.
Speaker 2:I have not been employed in the formal sense of the word since then. That's not to say I haven't worked since then. I probably worked a lot harder than I would have done had I been formally employed since then. So it's been quite interesting this last year because, you know, people have been having to adjust massively to working at home and such like. Well, I've been doing that for a quarter of a century. But you know I'm not earning money in the house unless I'm writing. Working in home and such like. Well, I've been doing that for a quarter of a century. Um, but you know I'm not earning money in the house unless I'm writing. So I go out and about. Um, you know it's lecturing, it's doing workshops, it's taking trips to the himalayas and to africa and such stuff. Um, all that interesting enough. You know the beginning of the year. Last year I had a line drawn through it.
Speaker 2:I should have just come back from kenya, actually just now, but uh, that hasn't happened. But uh, I mean, thank god, I've got my writing and um and consultancy and I do some work with one company in particular, uh, who has been brilliant um and investing hard through this period and, just as you are, adam, I've been doing podcasts. I've been doing podcasts, I've been doing webinars, we've been doing some stuff online. So that hasn't stopped altogether. I've still been in lectures, online Coaching. It's opened my eyes. Actually, you know, I have a client in Vancouver. I never would have thought of that before this, and why not? I mean, the whole world has opened up to us.
Speaker 1:We're connected.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know, I think some of those residual things will carry on. I mean, personally, I can't wait to get back face-to-face with people. In fact we've been doing a couple of things where we've been doing stuff in woodland in England. Obviously we can't go overseas at the moment and people have just lost that just to get away from the computer screen. And you know know, beers were made to be with people in the nature I totally agree.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think the pandemic has been horrendous and many people been obviously affected by it. But I think if there's one thing that it has done, it's probably brought family units much closer and it's made you explore your local surroundings, and we've there's so many things that we found here in the new forest that I just didn't know, and I've lived here for most of my life and I was loving it and it's just embracing the nature again. So when you talk about going on holiday now, you're talking about well, let's go and do a week's camping locally, not jumping on a plane and going to europe. And I think you know, hopefully people maybe just reignite their passion for the great outdoors and just get them off these computer screens and ipads. I sound like a 90 year old now, but you know, I just think people are too connected to technology and we need to remove ourselves yeah, also, you know the young people now are very privileged not not all, obviously.
Speaker 2:I mean massive polarization, but you know I talk at schools and you know I I meet these kids who have already been to costa rica and to china and all the rest of it. Like I'm thinking what's left?
Speaker 2:for your adulthood, you know and I don't have regrets that as a child we only went abroad once and it was dartmoor and yorkshire, and the new forest you know that we went and I think rediscovering your home patch is important and a really lovely thing to do, from which to explore at different stages in one's life, but to realise that actually in the British Isles we do have some exquisitely beautiful places and a huge variety of places to go.
Speaker 1:We do. And one of the things we sort of touched on earlier was, just because you've got so much, you can offer all this life experience, which I think is one of the greatest things we can do, is to pass our experience on to others. And things like these podcasts are great because people can tune in, they can listen to it and if they want to sort of connect with you and you said you sort of do motivational speaking and sort of coaching um, you've got your website, restevenscom, with a PH, so they can, they can email you at inquiries at RebeccaStevenscom and so you can help them. You know, maybe the next generation of people who've got the questions, you want to go on these adventures and on these amazing journeys. You might be able to give them some help with that.
Speaker 2:I do love doing that and occasionally I meet somebody who you know comes back and says you know, I heard your talk, did this, and yeah, it makes it worthwhile.
Speaker 1:It does. It's amazing. Just think that the idea of podcasts is. It's not about getting to the masses, but one person will listen to this and it makes a fundamental change to their life, to what they do. You know, they decide to go out and do something tomorrow, whatever it is, you know, they just it's something they've been putting off forever. They say today, today's the day, I'm going to do that and I'm going to set something in motion to achieve this thing. And I think that's the great thing that we, last year, I, I did something and I put the social media post on and, uh, a guy I know he listened to it and he texted me the other day and he said it was I can trace back this weight I've lost to this one post when you said, just, you know, just get off the couch, whatever it was, and just get out and go for a run, go for a walk, walk with dog, you know, um, the hardest steps, the first step.
Speaker 1:And he said that something resonated with me and I did that and I've now lost all this weight. I'm so much happier, I'm healthier and it's it's like great. So that worked for him. I'm going to put you on the spot now Another one of our listeners, a guy called Chris, so we've named this part after him.
Speaker 1:You know Chris's corner about the three must have bits of kit, so if you're often on expedition what are the three things that you pick up, that always go in your bag, that go with you, your three favorite bits of equipment.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, one is very obvious, and I'm sure many, many people do this, but I think for me a camera is really important. You know, sort of leave any footprints, take any pictures, sort of thing, and I do like a good old-fashioned. Well, I do have a digital camera, but a camera, not just an iPhone, although iPhones these days are phenomenal. But I keep saying, for example, get out there, guys, I need a viewfinder and I like a traditional camera because of the viewfinder. But anyway, that's probably just personally. If I'm going on a long trip trip, I do like photographs of my family. Um, I remember the first trip I did of two girls who are now teenagers, one's 18, one's 14 but I, when they were very tiny, I wasn't going away for a bit. And then I had an invitation to go to bhutan when the youngest was three and, um, the guy who invited me from world expeditions, who I do a lot of work with, he knew I'd always wanted to go to Bhutan and it was just irresistible and it was so difficult to leave them.
Speaker 2:But I went and, of course, once I was on the plane it was absolutely fine and they survived. I'm not sure they had a bath in my absence, but they were smiling when I got back, and so you know, that is something that I would carry with me if I'm in a work mode and then my family's not with me. And the last one is a very, very small vial of perfume.
Speaker 1:Okay, takes a bit of home again, just makes you feel a bit more personal.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's something I just you know. I mean, how can I live without perfume?
Speaker 1:I don't know I've not used perfume for a while but I'll uh. No, that's brilliant, that's great. It's another three which I think people seem to love this part of the show where they they always sort of dm me. At the end they say that's great, I didn't think about that and just thank you very much. And so if anyone wants to learn more about you, obviously they can go on to google. There's plenty of information on your exploits and your ventures. Have you written a book? Do I see was that there's a number of publications that you're yes, I am.
Speaker 2:when I wrote a book about ever as many years ago on top of the world, I wrote a book which actually I'm reasonably happy with, called seven summits of success, which I co-wrote with a guy called robert heller, and that was written specifically with the view of drawing lessons learned from climbing the seven summits, which have a, you know, applicable in a more broad context and people's working and and home lives, um and um. I've got a book coming out actually at the end of this year, uh which is on strategy execution. So that's's looking at case studies of people who have got stuff done in a variety of worlds, ranging from the military to education to business, all different ways, how they've done that, how they've successfully done that, and it's really a book to inspire people to say no, we don't have to surrender to this world where we're a tiny cog in an institution, we can make a difference, we can make things work. So that's coming out in November.
Speaker 1:Okay, but we'll be sure when we sort of edit this, we'll mention that again as well at the end. For us, I think we've gone on a fantastic journey with you today. I think hopefully we've inspired some people to get out there and get up on the hills, get on the mountains, cause it's such an amazing place and in the UK we're never that far from somewhere where you can put your boots on and go for a wonder. I'd just like to thank you for coming on and sharing your story.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, adam, I've really enjoyed it Good.
Speaker 1:We, it is good, we've enjoyed it too and, uh, if those out there that listening to this want to sort of contact, you can just go on to our podcast and we'll put on the links on on the various emails and publications you can go to. So, rebecca, thank you very much for coming in today. Well, that was a fantastic and enjoyable interview. I mean mean Rebecca Stephens what a person. I mean hugely inspirational, everything that she's achieved and continues to do so. So, if you want to follow on with what Rebecca's doing, head over to our website, rebeccastephenscom, and you can hear about the journey, motivational speaking and if you want to learn more head over there, contact her. I'm sure she'd be happy to answer any questions from us.
Speaker 1:As we sort of said at the beginning, what would be great if you could pop over to iTunes and just click on the star rating there or just leave a review. Doesn't need to be a long essay, but anything just helps with the algorithm to sort of push us up the charts and coming up next week we've got another great interview. I'm not going to say who it is yet. We'll put that out on Instagram in the next few days, but from us, obviously at the Another Man's Shoe Show. We really appreciate your continued listening and the comments we're getting on social media and that really does help.
Speaker 1:And one of the other things we're going to sort of start promoting is the Hoplite Fund. That's the charity of the UK Special Forces Communicator Something close to my heart and we're going to start getting some challenges up there and sort of pushing a bit more about the Hoplite Fund. So if you can head over to the Hoplite page that we're going to set up on JustGiving and maybe sponsor us, that'd be fantastic, but for now that's us. That's another episode. Have a great day.