Another Mans Shoes
Interviews with fellow military veterans and adventurers about their experiences of war, the lows and times of hardship, joining them on their journey and how this has shaped their lives in the most extraordinary way. Comedy moments, dark humour and witty banter.
Another Mans Shoes
From Cliffs of North Wales to El Capitan: Hazel Findlay's Climbing Journey
Ever wondered how a childhood spent on the cliffs of North Wales shapes a world-class rock climber? Tune in as we host the incredible Hazel Findlay, who takes us through her adventurous upbringing with her mountaineer father. Hazel shares heartwarming and inspiring stories, including the unforgettable moment of naming and climbing a new route on her 11th birthday. With genuine warmth, she contrasts her unique, resilient childhood with today's experiences, offering a refreshing perspective on outdoor adventures.
Hazel doesn't just share her past; she enlightens us on the diverse world of rock climbing. From the adrenaline-pumping bouldering to the strategic challenges of sport and traditional climbing, Hazel breaks down each type's technicalities and ethics. Whether you're a seasoned climber or a curious newbie, Hazel's tales and tips—especially those about the UK’s unique grading system—will captivate and educate you. Her passion is palpable, making this segment both informative and engaging.
We then scale the heights of Yosemite’s iconic El Capitan. Hazel dissects the monumental achievements of climbers like Alex Honnold and Lynn Hill, clarifying the differences between free climbing and aid climbing. The episode wraps up with essential gear tips and a look at the growing popularity of e-bikes, making outdoor adventures more accessible to all. Don’t miss out on Hazel’s insights and the exciting guest lined up for our next episode—be sure to follow Hazel on Instagram for a daily dose of inspiration!
Please visit the Podcasts app and leave a review or rating, this really helps get out show noticed. Thank you.
welcome back to season two of another man's shoes, and we've got a great guest on with us today. We've got hazel finley, and we'll be introducing her in a minute. Uh, before we start, just want to say thanks for everyone who's tuned in season two. The figures are going up, so we're really chuffed with that. One of the things we ask and I'm going to keep on asking is just to sort of head over to itunes. We're getting a lot of viewers or listeners on Spotify, which is great, but Spotify only allows you to subscribe, but doesn't leave the feedback. With iTunes, you can go on there and you can leave feedback, leave a star rating, and what that does is just sort of get picked up by the various charts and then the algorithms work their magic and pushes up so more people can hear it. So if you are listening to this, or you know anyone who's listening to it, if you could just head over to itunes, just pop on a review. We'd appreciate that.
Speaker 1:So, uh, anyway, without further ado, let's introduce hazel onto the show. Welcome to another man's shoes in season two, and we're delighted to have on with us today hazel finley. Hazel talks to us from north wales and we're going to go through her adventures as a climber, and this is actually the first proper climb we've had in the show. We've had a few guys that have done some mountaineering and some arctic adventures, but what Hazel is going to take us through today is going to be a real journey, and reading on her bio what she's done, I think you know you're going to want to strap in for this one. So, hazel, thanks for coming on to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a big job there. So you're going to have to sort of really sell yourself now. But I think looking at your bio, you've done some pretty crazy stuff and some big mountains, so you know that's impressive.
Speaker 2:But before we get into that, can you sort of give us a bit of a background. You know your childhood and what it was like sort of growing up, yeah, yeah, so it's funny you say mountains, because I haven't actually climbed many mountains. Um, so I guess you know I'm more of a rock climber really. Uh, I've only really climbed one proper mountain and that was in the deck, and it's quite an easy one.
Speaker 2:Um, but yes, I'm more into to rock climbing and, um, but saying that my dad's actually a mountaineer and he he guided trips and mountains in the Himalayas and that kind of thing and also a rock climber himself, he started when he was about 20, um, very involved in the kind of rock climbing scene in the 80s and 90s in the UK and he got me into climbing and, uh, yeah, probably had fairly different childhood to most people, probably, you know, even if we weren't climbing, we were doing big adventures. You know we'd like go caving or we'd kind of like go steering or on big hikes. But you know, it's sort of that mindset of like, oh, you don't follow the path that everyone else is going up, oh, you know, we're just going to go where we want to go, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Um, so, really adventurous childhood and then, yeah, just I really got into climbing and sort of did the competitions which are all on artificial walls they're quite different from outdoor climbing and then I kind of gave that up in my late teens to focus on what I really wanted to do, which was be outside have adventures, climbing, um, yeah, and that's sort of where it all got started really yeah, that's like the perfect childhood for many people, because if you sort of look at little kids today, I mean I sound like my dad now but you know they're sort of sat down and they're on their iPads or they're not getting out and they're not exploring, whereas I guess you know, go back a generation or two, when we were sort of growing up, you didn't have that, so you just went outside and you made your own fun. You just knew that back garden was your adventure playground and I guess having your dad being into rock climbing and all the adventures must have been the perfect upbringing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great. Yeah, and I think with that kind of upbringing, you kind of you have a kind of resilience from that, you know, like that you carry through into later life and it is a bit worrying, I think, how there's a bit more of a mindset, you know, around like coddling your children and keeping them safe. And you know, my dad used to let us solo up lifts right where if we fell. You know, sometimes I look back on it and I'm like actually I don't know, you know, if that was, if that was safe or whatever. Um, so yeah, it's quite different, but we we did have a really good time, yeah and have you got, like, any memories from each other?
Speaker 1:is there any sort of particular climbs that you did or an adventure you went on that still sticks with you to this day?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, quite a few really. Um, you know, I guess I remember. So in climbing you have like first ascents. You have the person who first does a route and then they'll kind of be the person who names that route, they give it a grade and they write it in the guidebook or they'll write it down and then the guidebook authors will publish it. And when I was on my 11th birthday, my dad and a few of his friends basically gave me a new route, so they kind of showed me this unclimbed piece of rock. So no one had climbed this, this piece of rock before on the sea cliff, probably only about 40 meters, something like that.
Speaker 2:But vertical wall, easy climbing, but definitely not like totally easy. You know you have to be a climber to get up it and there's no bolts or anything like that in it, so you kind of place in your own gear as you went. That was quite memorable because you know there's quite a lot of responsibility on me to kind of not fall and go the right way and and protect myself as I went and that kind of thing. And of course, like I was, I was terrified the whole way up it, prying my eyes out, that kind of thing. But then get to the top and, uh, you know everything's great and and you know, I'm just, I'm just really proud of myself and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2:There's quite a lot of experiences like that, I guess, where in the moment it's sort of what you'd say is like type two or three fun, you know type two, I guess, where it's like you know this, there's some part of you that's enjoying it, but there's also it's really uncomfortable and it feels scary and it feels stressful, but then after the fact, you know, you feel really great about it yeah, that massive sort of sense of adrenaline at the end you've done it, you've achieved it, and it's exhilaration yeah is that called the hazel route?
Speaker 1:now is it.
Speaker 2:You got the name I think I called it hammy the hamster, which is like one of my nickname as a kid, which is like obviously a bit embarrassing for me now and like totally unimaginative, you know. Yeah, um, but I think that's just what you do when you're a kid yeah, I might label this episode.
Speaker 1:The hamster lives on and then so when you're doing that, so you're leading, and then your dad was sort of climbing behind you and so you were setting the path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so I led it and then he was belaying me. That's what it means when you hold the ropes, and I think his friends were sort of, you know, keeping an eye on me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I belayed him up that's great, and so your sort of school life. As you're growing up, I imagine you're obviously very outdoors. Did you sort of go down the route of sort of university and all of that, or did you just get a job and go on your travels?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I did actually go to university, um. So, so after sixth form, I did sixth form, uh, and then I went on like one of those gap years that everyone does, but obviously I just climbed the whole time, um, and travel around the world and climbed, and it's when you could get those like round the world tickets I don't know if you can, still can and you get like a student discount and that kind of thing um, and I just had the best time ever climbing every day. I just absolutely loved it. And I had this place at university and I thought, well, you know, I really want to, I don't want to go to university, I want to just keep traveling, to keep climbing.
Speaker 2:But I really felt like I should, um, and actually now I don't regret it because I see my degree is quite useful for what I do and I did actually enjoy my degree. So, yeah, I don't regret it, but at the time it was, it was a bit difficult and and maybe if I'd had it my way, I would have like climbed for five years and then gone to uni. You know, like I think what? I think kids are kind of funneled down that path. You know, if you're somewhat academic. You're funneled down that path and it's funny because now I might have chosen a different subject and I would have tried much harder and I'd been much more focused, and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So I think being a much mature student is probably better than being a student when you're young, but it's sort of like the done thing, isn't it? Um, but then I was really lucky because when I left uni I got a sponsorship with the North Face, who I'm no longer with, but that that basically enabled me to keep climbing and doing and trips and that kind of thing, um. But you know, they didn't give me much money, so I basically learned to be what climbers call dirtbags. You know, it's like what the rest of the population think of like is like.
Speaker 2:You know, just, I don't know, not homeless, but you know, not exactly kind of conforming, let's say yeah yeah, like for a year I lived in a car and then I upgraded to a van and yeah, and now I've got a house. You know more of a growing up now, but for years I just sort of traveled around and went climbing and um lived cheap, basically but then that's all part of the adventure, I guess.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you had loads? Of money in the bank and you got all the best kit. You're not getting the full experience. You don't appreciate what you're doing as much.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah, and I think I think again, you know some people maybe are missing out on that. Now, I don't know, it's sort of van life has become this like really trendy thing, hasn't it? But it's quite different from the van life that I knew and everyone's got, you know, like 40,000 pound sprinter vans and it's all kitted out and you know it's nice, especially later in life, to have those, those comforts and stuff. But I think it was great to also have the experience of kind of roughing it. And you know, I remember, like fixing my car with hands of coke and wire and that kind of thing, because I couldn't afford to take it to the mechanic, and, like you know, creeping out in the dirt and um, you know, just all stuff like that which, yeah, it's like it, and when you're young you're sort of resilient, aren't you?
Speaker 2:you don't mind you don't know any different now, I'd be so tired, yeah yeah, one night out.
Speaker 1:That went away the weekend and I sort of did one night out and I got back on sunday I was like I'm knackered, you need to get a grip of yourself. But we're going to talk about your um climbing and and when I was sort of looking at you, you've written on your sort of bio and stuff about all the different grades which I don't necessarily understand.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people listening to this probably won't. So can you give us an indication of what the different grades are and what they mean, and a bit of background to it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean honestly it's quite complicated, it's actually a bit boring.
Speaker 2:But the thing that makes it confusing is there's different countries or areas of the world have different grading systems, and then you get different grading systems for different styles of climbing. So you've got bouldering, which is climbing without a rope on shorter pieces of rock such as boulders, pieces of rock such as boulders, and you usually carry with you a crash pad which is basically just like a beefy mattress type thing that folds up and you lay it down underneath you. Um, and that kind of climbing it's like really technical, it's really powerful, it like sort of really kind of packs a punch because obviously to get the challenge level high, it's not about endurance, because the the climb is so short, so it's really about technical ability, um, and then you have sport climbing, which is like usually a single pitch, which means it's like one rope length or less, and the key thing about sport climbing is you have bolts put in the rock and so you go up and you clip your what's called quick drawers, which are sort of like pieces of metal clips basically, and you put them into the rock and then you put your rope into that. Um, and it's generally pretty safe. Sport climbing and bouldly bouldering is a bit more dangerous than sport climbing because there's more potential to break your ankle or something like that, but I'd say that neither of them are any more dangerous probably less dangerous than, say, mountain biking, for example.
Speaker 2:But then you have trad climbing or multi-pitch climbing. So traditional or trad climbing is when you put your own protection in the rock, which means you can walk up to a piece of rock that no one's ever seen before, or they might have done, but there's nothing drilled into the rock ready there to help you, basically. So you've got to then use cams and nuts and find natural features in the rock, put your own protection in and then you clip the rope into that, which is makes you more responsible for your own safety. Um, and it's it's deemed to be a bit more dangerous, being deemed to be a bit more scary.
Speaker 2:In some cases, actually, it's just as safe as sport climbing, but in many cases it's not, especially in the uk, and we have quite a strange grading system for our trad climbs, but nowhere in the rest of the world uses that system, so that's why it gets complicated. But if you see anything with an e in front of it e stands for extreme and nowhere else in the world uses that grading system and it generally kind of the grade encompasses sort of the technical difficulty of the climb, with kind of the overall feel of the climb, which takes into account how dangerous it is, whether it's exposed if there's a loose rock, how much protection is is available, all of that kind of thing. Um, so the higher the e number, kind of the more scary and difficult a climb is so it's like e1 to 10 sort of thing, is it?
Speaker 2:yeah, but then prior to e1 you've got an adjectival system as well that's also unique to the uk which starts at easy although easy is like basically walking, moderate, which again is really easy, and then it kind of like those difficult, severe, very good it's very old school, right.
Speaker 2:It's like they came up with these names to describe it like oh, this one's difficult, oh, this one's very difficult. It's really stupid, right? And then they obviously ran out of adjectives. So then they've had to go e1, e2, e3, up to e10. Well, it's really stupid, right. And then they obviously ran out of adjectives, so then they've had to go e1, e2, e3, up to e10.
Speaker 1:Well, it's probably because someone out there complained, because they said you can't have difficult anymore. You know it doesn't fit within the narrative of something of life. But um, so you're talking then about, obviously, when you climb because I did a little bit in my military sort of career climbing it's all made to do more than wanting to do, I guess. But um, so the knuckles, they were like bits of wire and you got like a bit of metal on the end of it and you they come in different sizes you try and find a crack in the rock face to to put that in, is that a knuckle?
Speaker 2:uh, I don't know what a knuckle is no or cams you're probably thinking nuts and cams. Yeah, so nuts are kind of like passive protection. It's like a, basically a wedge of metal that you like jam, yeah, in a in a v crack. And then cams are not passive. They've got kind of like a clamming action where you pull back a trigger.
Speaker 1:That's it the spring sort of thing. Yeah and yeah, springs open and then and then it expands if there's load on it got you, yeah, and then I mean, if you get to like a rock face that's got no cracks or anywhere for you to put your sort of nuts and cams you spoke then about sort of drilling into the rock. So is that literally, you got like a drill on your belt and you, you drill in yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So, yes, it makes it's that when you're sort of explaining all this to a non-climber, it makes climbing seem so weird and it is. It's quite weird, but yeah, basically a lot of places in the world. If you, if you find a crag and it's not got natural cracks and things to put this this protection in, then they'll. They'll drill it. So what they'll do is someone will come along and they'll develop the crag. It's kind of like with mountain biking like you've got, you have the first people come and develop the trails you know, and then everyone else gets to use it afterwards and then and benefit from their hard work, right?
Speaker 2:it's a bit like that. So you know, these people will come and they'll drill holes in the rock and they'll put essentially bolts into the rock and and they've got hangers on them and metal hangers which you can then put your clips into yeah um, but what's interesting about the uk is that we have several crags that if they were anywhere else in the world they would have been developed as sport crags.
Speaker 2:They would have had these bolts drilled into the wall. But because we're very precious about kind of what they call, you like the ethics of climbing and preserving adventure and that kind of thing, there are trad climbs which are basically kind of like death routes, in the sense that you know you have to climb the route and you can't fall because no one's put bolts in and you can't put any gear in. And that's where the e-grade comes in. Like e10, it's either going to be really really, really, really hard and somewhat dangerous or it's going to be really dangerous.
Speaker 1:Basically, okay, so I'll avoid that, um, but is it?
Speaker 1:is there, I suppose? It strikes me that I suppose if you're rock climbing anywhere in the world, you've got a love of the outdoors, so you're not going to want to ruin the landscape. Um, so I guess it's kind of you know, similar to when you say when you go to the beach or everything you say whatever you take you know to the beach, take it home with you. Is it the same with climbing? You know, don't try and ruin the landscape, don't sort of leave any sort of cams in the wall or drilling into the place, just try and leave it untouched yeah, definitely that.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the ideal. What's interesting about climbing, though? Like the bolts on the rock, they're quite small. It's kind of hard, hard to see them in a way. But we do use chalk, and so my dad he was quite like strict with his values around this and he didn't actually use chalk because the chalk white right. So if you have rock that's darker in color, you'll have these white splodges all the way to the rock and it can be quite an eyesore. And as climbers we tend to not care right, because we're just more concerned with climbing and having our climbing experience um be satisfying. But then you think, oh well, if a walker is coming past and they see all these white splodges on the wall, is that going to be kind of upsetting for them? So, but then you'll have people say, oh well, you can't put bolts in the mountain crags, because the mountain should be left wild, and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So it's all kind of like politics and ethics and debates, and you know, every sport's got this within it right? Yes, and so climbing's no different. It's probably worse actually than other sports I can imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, is there a bit of a click sort of involved in climbing different groups and there's certain climbs that people do and people like nation of climb that you know it's like a holy site or whatever, and do you find much of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that going on, and it's less about something being a holy site, although that does happen. Less so in the uk, though, because you know just, it's such an overpopulated country and it would be. We've been everywhere at this point. You know, people get annoyed when you like steal someone else's route, so like say, for example, someone's been working on a climb for a while and then someone comes along and basically like poaches it and does it before you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:People get annoyed at that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine that, but I imagine some of that goes on as well, because it's quite a selfish. I mean, anyone who's an adventurer is. It's got an element of selfishness in them because they want to be the first, they want to do it, they want to get out there, and so it's probably quite hard to hold yourself back sometimes if you want to go and complete one of these routes.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah so sort of taking it back a little bit. Obviously, you can't just wake up in the morning and say I'm going to go and crack a mountain. There's got to be an element of being prepared for that, which ultimately is like food, diet and, I suppose, more importantly, fitness. Um, it's not necessarily about being able to run a marathon in sort of two hours. I guess it's a lot of upper body strength and finger holds, and so what sort of training do you do to keep yourself on top of the game?
Speaker 2:yeah. So like for me, I probably my weakness is probably like power and kind of upper arm strength, probably compared to, say, endurance training, although I do need to train that as well. So I've got what we call a board in the house. It's literally just wooden board and I've put holes on it and, uh, train on that uh, and you know you can actually do a lot on a very in a small space actually, because you're training kind of intensity, sort of like you know how how someone who maybe some a sprinter might kind of like do lots of weights to get their legs more powerful. It's a bit like that, um, and then you also do what's called finger boarding, which is where you hang on little wooden edge and you actually add weight.
Speaker 2:So, for example, like I'll add 20 kilograms to my body weight and hang on this edge and it just stresses those finger muscles uh, which you know finger strength is very important for climbing because they have to hold very small holds um, and then you know I might go round and round the board, and then you know I actually do a lot of my training is actually just going climbing, but I'll kind of like pick things that are appropriate for the training that I want to do. You know, so we're really lucky around here there's lots of different crags and you can kind of like, okay, well, I want to work on like power endurance, say so, this style is very power endurance style, so if I climb there, you know, for a few weeks or a month, that's going to help my power endurance, that kind of thing yeah, you can't beat really getting out on the hills and just climbing the rocks.
Speaker 1:Is it a problem? Do you generally find I suppose I've done more mountaineering in my sort of lifetime and you do. I was up in Snowdon, near you, and we were just having a little day out up on whatever the ridge there is called, and there was just a couple of guys that had barely never been outside before. They've obviously been to Cotswolds. They brought all their best gear. Then they were stuck up there. They didn't know what to do. The weather came in, what have you. So it's quite amateurish, and so we had to assist them. But do you get that in rock climbing them?
Speaker 2:but do you get that in rock climbing you get people that just go out by a harness and ropes and then think, yeah, I'm gonna climb that and then get stuck. Yeah, you kind of do. I mean, unlike kind of hill walking and mountaineering, there there is there's more of a barrier, I guess, because you you actually have to be able to climb the rock face. There's not like total beginners can go out and get stuck. But you do, you'll get, you know, and it happens to the best of us.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't want to say that this is just novices that do this, but it's very hard to know, like, when you start up a cliff, you know exactly what the difficulty is, how long it's going to take you, or you know you've got to follow the guidebook. Sometimes the guidebook description isn't very good. You know that kind of thing. So people do need to get rescued quite a bit, especially less experienced people, um, and it can be quite complicated. You know, like getting people off a mountain is it's hard enough with a helicopter, right, but getting someone off a vertical cliff face is is even harder. So there's a whole kind of mountain rescue team local to us, but they're usually getting hikers off the hills actually, um, compared to rescuing climbers, but it does happen as well to rescue miners.
Speaker 1:Have you been rescued before? Have you been stuck anywhere?
Speaker 2:Not, really no.
Speaker 1:Don't admit to it, the sponsor's listening. So you sort of mentioned a few things, a few faces that you've done and I think when I was looking online I saw you were the first British woman to free climb El Capitan. Now that's in like it was at Yosemite over in America. I'd never even heard of the place until I brought an Apple Mac book and I think the operating system used to be called El Capitan or something and it always had the picture of it and I was like that looks like a cool place. I'd love to go there, love to go there and, um, I mean, that's impressive in in its own right, just sort of you know, climbing that. But then to free climb, it is obviously taking it to a whole new level. Um, because I think there was a bloke, uh, who did it did he was an english guy, did it a couple years ago and he did it in one hit and he was like super glue in his fingers or something. There was, uh, something in the news about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, the most famous thing that's happened is that alex honnold free soloed el cap, and you can watch that in the film free solo that's it.
Speaker 2:He does that without ropes, which you know. It's probably one of the biggest sporting achievements ever, basically, um, so if you want to know about el cap and climbing and stuff, then watch that. But I guess watch it, knowing that most people do use ropes when they climb, something like that, and he's actually not an anomaly. You might have also seen the dawn wall. That's on netflix at the moment, I think, and that's about tommy corwell and kevin yorganson climbing what's the hardest freak route on el cap. Um, there's quite a lot of stuff in like public media and that kind of thing. It's brought climbing into the mainstream a bit.
Speaker 1:All that stuff yeah, it has, but I think if you've got vertigo it's probably not one of the films you want to sort of start watching so can you sort of describe sort of anyone who hasn't seen el capitanum and they can obviously go on google and look at it and if they if they do that Capitan, I mean they can obviously go on Google and look at it. And if they do that while they're listening to this podcast they can get a sense of sort of how great a face that is. But can you sort of describe that climb and sort of how that came about and what you did?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a pretty special place, yosemite Sort of like. You know, know really amazing natural beauty and sort of. The main event is El Capitan, which is a 1000 meter sheer granite rock face and what's really unique about it is that there's not many walls like that in the world and most of them in pretty remote locations, you know, like in the himalaya, um, you know, greenland, those kind of places where you know it's a full expedition to get to the base of these walls. Yeah, um, but yosemite valley is in like a popular national park in california, right, it's like a four-hour drive from the bay area or whatever. So it's uh, you know, it takes you like 15 minutes to walk from the road to the base of the wall. So it's kind of like the place where you learn to big wall climb. A big wall just means that it's a wall big enough to stay on, stay on the wall for multiple days, um, and it's sort of like if you're a climber and you're kind of interested in adventure and being outside, then Yosemite and El Capitan are like your dreams for climbers.
Speaker 2:You know, like when I was a kid I would watch videos of Lynn Hill, which is, uh, she was the first person to free climb a route up El Cap, and so that that made it special for me as well, because the whole of my life it's like okay, this man does this first, this, this man does this first. But she was the first person, man or woman to free that route and not many people have done what she did since. So she's like she was. She was amazingly talented, lynn hill, and so I've watched videos of her growing up and think, oh, my god, I've got to go there. Like you know, in the uk, like we don't have many big cliffs, right, you know, even our mountains aren't bigger than el cap most of them, you know that's true so, um, so, like it was sort of in my mind is this like amazing thing to do?
Speaker 2:and then I can't remember what it was sort of in my mind is this like amazing thing to do, and then I can't remember what year it was that I did it. First now, but then… 2011,.
Speaker 1:it says here oh great. It says you did it four times, so once wasn't enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've pre-climbed it four times and I've probably climbed it, you know, a few times more.
Speaker 1:So by pre-clim, by free climbing again.
Speaker 2:That's like no ropes, but you're doing it with a partner. No, no, yeah. So it's very confusing for people this the terminology, but so free climbing means that you climb the rock using your hands and feet and it's a natural features of the wall. The opposite of free climbing is aid climbing, which means you know we're talking about those nuts and cans, yeah, so most of the time you put them in the wall and they're just like a backup that you clip your rope into.
Speaker 2:You don't put your weight on them and you know if you're, if you're not a climbing, then it's kind of cheating to put your weight on it, on them, right, so, yeah, so a climbing is like you use that to pull yourself up the wall and it's. It's usually much easier to do that than to free climb. Free climbing supposed to be more of a purer style, I suppose, um, and it's also more fun because you know you, you're actually you've got to move up the rock in a very technical way. Um, the ace climbers would argue that what they're doing is technical as well, so it all gets a little bit confusing, but, um, yeah, anyway no, no, it's great because this stuff you know I didn't understand and you know people that listen to this won't.
Speaker 1:So it's really interesting to hear. And so when you, when you're climbing, how long does that take? A thousand meters, to sort of put into context, is nearly three and a half times the height of the Eiffel Tower. So when you're sort of stood in Paris looking up, you think that's pretty high, but three and a half times that and you're climbing it using just your sort of muscle. It's not like you've got an escalator or anything to help you up there. Um, how long does that take you to get up?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay, so the quickest I've climbed that wall is in about 11 hours, but that was using aid climbing technique to reclimb it, which is much harder. The quickest I've done it is in three days, but I have spent up to seven days, six or seven days on six days on the wall, something like that that just shows doesn't it.
Speaker 1:I suppose the difference between free climbing and a climbing, because how? Much longer it takes, and then you're obviously dragging so that you're free. Climbing, which is harder on the body, takes longer, and you've then obviously got to drag everything up with you. It's like your tent and your food and everything else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and because the rock face is so sheer, there's not often ledges to put a tent on, but you actually have to take a porter ledge, which is like a metal rigid square that you kind of strap to the side of the mountain and it's almost like it's almost like a rigid hammock yeah type thing.
Speaker 2:So you're literally like hanging and there's, like you know, nothing but air beneath you and the ground, um, and you there's no water sources either on the wall. So you have to. You know, if you think, you use like a minimum of three liters a day per person. So if you think how much weight that's going to start to add up, I think we'd budget for like four liters each per person. Eight liters, that's eight kilograms. So you're on the wall for six days. That's, you know, going to really add up plus all your food. And then you also, you know you can't go to the toilet off the edge of the wall because people underneath you.
Speaker 2:So you've got to do that in a bag, put that in a yeah. So there's lots of things to think about it's like, yeah, it's almost like going out on a boat for a few days. You've really got to think about everything you need to survive. But you're trying to conserve weight and you're trying to conserve space and everything you need you have to pull up. So you climb a pitch, you catch the rope to your haul bags and then you've got to pull that up after you. So it's really kind of like backbreaking work basically.
Speaker 1:Got you. I had it in my mind that you would you sort of had this all strapped to you and you're climbing.
Speaker 2:I had it in my mind that you would you sort of had this all strapped to you and you're climbing. I was like Jesus, it must be like no. No, you won't be able to do that.
Speaker 1:No, because it's hundreds of kilograms. Yeah, got it and then so, yeah, you just winch it up effectively, but then you, but then you're still having to carry heavy ropes and you're still.
Speaker 1:A friend of mine. He's quite into his rock climbing and whenever we're doing anything I'll sit there and pack all my stuff. But he'll be sitting there packing his stuff but with his scales and he weighs everything and he'll just take all the packaging out. He'll take anything off and he'll be like no, that's too much, I don't need that. You know my roll mat, right? I'm going to cut that down to the bare minimum because I don't need the extra four inches on the end. But obviously it must be the same for you from your background that it is all about the weight. You know you've just got to shed whatever you don't need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely yeah, you're certainly not going to take like tons of beans. You know you're not going to take like pineapple or something where you're going to tip away in the water or you know something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everything's sort of like dried food. But then also you can't you can't waste water for cooking either, so it's got to be that stuff that you can kind of eat instantly. You can't sort of like be cooking pasta and have all your water evaporating yeah, it's all meal in the bag stuff yeah, lots of stuff to think about, yeah there is.
Speaker 1:So when, when you're up, I mean I've never slept on a ledge and I don't think it rates anywhere on my wish list or bucket things to do. I mean, have you ever sort of been there in that tent at night and then thought, oh my god, you know I'm sat, I'm 600 meters in midair on the ledge, what am I doing here? Or has there ever been a moment when this tent's almost fallen off or anything?
Speaker 2:I was actually up on the wall during a pretty bad storm. So it's quite interesting because we knew that there was a storm coming, but we didn't. We kind of just thought, oh, we'll just prepare for it instead of, oh, we'll go a different time. It was actually right at the end of November, which is sort of like the end of the season really, um, but the thing is is that because the wall faces south and it's in California, if you're actually in the sun it's really quite warm and, being British, you know, hate the heat. So we we push it quite to the end of the season and we didn't have a very long trip. So we just thought, oh, we'll go, we'll go for it. We know this storm's coming. We'll just kind of like plan to sort of hang out in the portaledge for that day. And it was amazing because climbed all day and you know when you can like hear the wind building and you're like, oh yeah, the storm's coming, you know.
Speaker 2:And so we spent ages kind of like strapping this port ledge to the wall. We like we made alterations to it so that we could like we used the rope and like basically like wrapped this rope around the whole thing and like strapped it to the wall, and the wind's just getting stronger and stronger. And then we didn't sleep much at all because it was just like being in a rocket ship, you know, like, as you imagine, just sort of like a tent strapped to the wall there's no ground to give it kind of stability. It was just literally just rattling around everywhere all night and everything's flapping, and, and then we woke up in the morning and there was like snow everywhere. But it was so beautiful, it was so nice, and all the wall was like running with water. God.
Speaker 2:Picturesque it was kind of cool because we were really short on water and we actually just collected loads of the snow melt and we could like wash our faces and have extra tea and stuff like that, because all of a sudden we had extra water.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's perfect, and so do you think that's one of the hardest climbs you've sort of done. So when you look at all the ones you've done, like with El Capitan, would you rate that right up there?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think I think free climbing El Cap, you know like done it four times and you know the one that I did that was the easiest for me that I did in three days it still felt really hard. You know, you sort of expect it to start feeling easier, but every time I've been up on that wall it has just felt hard. Um, but yeah, and I think because I live in the UK, you can't train for it. Really, you know, we just don't have big enough cliffs. You could climb the same thing all day, but it still wouldn't be the same as being on a wall all day. So yeah, it does feel hard.
Speaker 1:And so you're saying about being sort in the UK. You've you've spent this last year stuck here, like most people, I imagine, and maybe been lucky to sort of escape for a while. But how's that sort of affected you sort of, um, you know, with your mental health and fitness and work and everything? What have you sort of been been up to the last 12 months?
Speaker 2:yeah, so so I'm not only a professional climber, I also coach, and so with that side of my business it was obviously quite affected. Um, in in-person coaching that I do, but I do do quite a lot of remote coaching as well. So I've been doing that in the last year and then I've just been climbing locally. We did manage to sneak away to the Alps last summer and Greece in the autumn, so compared to most people, I've traveled way more, uh, but yeah, it has definitely been.
Speaker 2:It's been different, for me, for sure it's. You know, usually I'm traveling most of the year and then to sort of be home for months and months on end has been different. But you know what, in'm traveling most of the year and then to sort of be home for months and months on end has been different. But you know what, in some ways it's been nice. I think it's worse for people who haven't had a chance to travel honestly, and maybe they were planning to travel that year and then now that they can't. So you know, I feel like I've traveled a lot in my life, so I'm happy to kind of be a bit more stable for a bit of time.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, yeah it's been, it's been different and somewhat challenging, I'd say yeah, but I think a lot of people out there have uh struggled um, but hopefully we can find a positive in the last 12 months more family time or reassess what we like in life or something we'll soon find out.
Speaker 1:So everyone's got a wish list, like got their bucket list. I mean, where does yours sit within sort of what you want to do? Is there a mountain you want to do or another sport you want to get into? Is there where to see yourself moving forward?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I've got a massive sort of bucket climbing bucket list, you know there's, there's routes I want to do. We were actually planning to go to kyrgyzstan last year the sort of big, big granite, big balls in kyrgyzstan and I'd really like to do that. So hopefully we'll we'll do that next year. But yeah, there's places I still want to go to. There's places I've been to that I want to visit again.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I'm sort of I'm sort of bad with goal setting. Honestly, I kind of I'm a bit more of a like we'll see where life takes me kind of person, you know. Um, so I don't have sort of like big plans or a big, a big picture of where I want things to go. I did just buy an e-bike, though, so, um, I'm quite excited to like use that to go, go climbing and that kind of like pair up biking, climbing adventures and that kind of thing locally yeah, the, uh, the e-bike scenes got massive, uh I brought one last actually beginning the lockdown because everyone just sort of went out and you know was thinking what can we do?
Speaker 1:I think most people have always been against sort of e-bikes. Wherever there's a bit that stigma, it's attached to it. So if you're not, fit enough to have a normal bike, but actually they are the best fun. It totally widens the adventure for the day because, like you say, you just be smashing it up these hills, then you can really hit them hard coming back down.
Speaker 2:Just do it over and over again, or until the battery runs out and uh totally yeah, and it's not like you take away the venture, you just do different adventures right. It's like you can go further afield and you can go up steeper hills and you know you can always turn the e-bit off, you can always put it on eco, which is still really hard work. You know it's not like it's it you can, it's too easy and you're like forced to have it too easy all the time. Um, I also think it's like kind of nice because it's made biking more accessible to people who aren't that fit. You know, like, for example, my mum's got an e-bike and she would really struggle on a hill on a normal bike. Yeah, but on the e-bike she, she can now exercise, whereas before she she was limited in what she could do. So I think it's really good, but yeah, yeah, I don't know no, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:My um, my dad's got one and he's never been massively into fitness. Um just loves his gardening but his wife nags him to death. You know to get out and let's do stuff. And so they got e-bikes. Now they are like these two old people just riding around the village. They go everywhere on e-bikes. They're like 20 odd miles.
Speaker 1:They go get their, get their honey or whatever, and they make and yeah, I think it's amazing, um, but it's true, I think, in any of these sort of sports, the more people you can get involved in it, and if there's something, if there's a bit of equipment that can equalise it, so it makes it like, say, it makes it successful, or if you're doing it you don't feel sort of alienated because you're not as fit it's a good thing. Do they do one for rock climbing, like a little electric thing that's like an ascender that just pulls you up the mountain. That's what we need.
Speaker 2:No, but they should.
Speaker 1:That would be awesome. On the season one, one of the big hits that people always liked is, with a guess, we'd say what are your favourite free bits of kit? So if you were sort of leaving the house now you're going on a big expedition, have you got like three must-haves? It's like, look, whatever I'm taking, these three items are coming with me. They've got to go in my bag.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Just going to lump that one on you.
Speaker 2:Hmm, in my bag? Well, it never used to be, but now it's a waterproof now that I'm more in the UK. Yeah, because it's a waterproof now that I'm more in the uk yeah, because it's just like can always rain.
Speaker 2:Um, head torch yeah, always got to have a head torch because the amount of times something's not gone to plan. But this is why people need to get rescued as well, because they don't take a head torch and they can't find their way off, whereas if they had a head torch, they could just find their way off well, they leave the batteries in and then it turns on their bag.
Speaker 1:They haven't turned around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, what else snacks? I suppose snacks. Yeah, I've not really got any interesting ones, sorry about that no, I mean, that's that is interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think the common theme from other people have been like boots everyone's got those, like comfy pair of boots and hip flask. Maybe that's a British thing, because we're all drinkers.
Speaker 2:I'm not too sure.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean, I think, because one thing a lot of guys you know listen to this and people that are into the sports you become a bit of a kit monster and you've got your, you love whatever, and if I go past like an outdoor shop I always have to pop in to see what little gizmos are there and have you got any sort of favorite like or any any bits of kit that you know you must, if you can get it, if you can get, if you can pay and afford a better bit.
Speaker 1:You know, be it a t-shirt, or be it a pair of boots or a bag, is there anything particular that you always sort of take, pay close attention to?
Speaker 2:yeah, because I have sponsors, a lot of my kit gets decided for me. You know, they just send me stuff and and you know, with climbing, the actual gear, like the trad gear that you put in the rock, you become pretty particular about that, I think you know, because not only you know is there the whole efficiency and aesthetics and all that, but it's also the thing that's going to save your life. So you, you want your piece, you want your rack of gear. You don't want to like it's always annoying to borrow someone else's, for example, um, but actually you know what sort of like.
Speaker 2:The thing that does kind of bother me the most probably is clothing, right, because if you can't move, well, you know like I hate trousers where, if you like do a high step, it like restricts your life from moving up. That just really bothers me. And then and then also like those, those clothes that smell bad. You know, you like go out on the hill one day and you sweat a bit and then you wash it and it retains the smell usually a down jacket or something yeah, it's like you've got it.
Speaker 2:You've got to have these like fabrics that don't retain the smell, so like stuff like that bothers me, um, but I'm not like a gear nerd, you know. I don't know if there's like a male female thing going on here, but I noticed that more men are like yeah, nerds than oh yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know why that is but.
Speaker 1:I mean I'd rather sort of have to outdoorsy clothes and gear than do anything else in the world and one of my bugbears is like when you go to the school gates and you're picking up the kids and you've got like that school mum or dad you know you don't discriminate on this show and um, they are like top to bottom North Face or Rab. Yeah, they've probably never been out in the rain in their life and I think a lot of brands have kind of sold their soul a little bit where the traditional person who used that gear has kind of been forgotten about.
Speaker 2:It's a shame really. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:So is there any other sports that you're really active and into?
Speaker 2:Not really. No, I mean sort of running and hiking yoga a little bit. I used to paraglide. I gave that up because with the weather in the UK you know, obviously climbing is weather dependent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was just too much to have another weather dependent sport, so I gave that up, and now I'm hoping that mountain biking will be my second thing. Yeah, you can do that in any weather in fact, the wetter or windier, the better.
Speaker 1:Mountain biking, yeah. So we sort of touched on sponsors as we sort of draw, start drawing things to a close. Uh, is there any sponsors you want to mention? Or is that, is there any uh sort of charities you do anything with or any business that you want to sort of plug?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess you know my main sponsor is Black Diamond. You know, talking about clothes and stuff, they do a lot of really good clothes and make I think they make the best climbing gear. So that's my main sponsor. And then La Sportiva they give me shoes. They make really good climbing shoes, running shoes and and approach shoes, um, and what else, charities, I guess. Um, charity called urban uprising is a charity I'm affiliated with and they they really get into getting kids into climbing and outdoors. So, going back to you know, talking about kids with different childhoods, it's kind of like making it more accessible for kids coming from, say, like an urban environment or like from families who don't have the resources to get them outdoors or doing a sport like climbing, and so if you, if you're interested in charities like that, I really recommend them yeah, great.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you know recapping on that. If anyone wants to sort of follow you and see where you're going in the future, look at your journey to date they can go on instagram at hazel underscore finley, and they can find you on there and see all some amazing pictures. Um, you a tea or coffee person? If you're out on the mountains, tea, tea. Ah, I was hoping that'd be a little bit of a segue for a shameless plug, because we've created our own coffee brand called Another Man's Brew. So I was hoping you'd say coffee and I'd say, yes, I'll send you like a big bag of it and then you can sort of promote it everywhere. But I'll send you a bag anyway so one of your friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's a great little coffee we've created and all proceeds from it go to military charities. So yeah, but I think I've really enjoyed that conversation and listening to it and I've actually learned quite a lot. So next time I'm down at the pub when it opens with more than five mates. I'll be able to tell them all about rock climbing and the E9 grades. But, thank you very much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, no worries.
Speaker 1:Well, safe climbing.
Speaker 2:Cheers then.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks, hazel, for coming on, really enjoyed that episode and talking to you, learned a lot there. For anyone else who wants to learn a bit more, then head over Instagram and you can follow Hazel. She's at Hazel underscore, finlay, and you can see what she's getting up to. Obviously, there's various articles that she's been interviewed on. There's some really good information out there. So you know, hopefully someone might want to get into climbing and if you do, why don't you drop Hazel a line and ask her a few questions?
Speaker 1:Moving into next week, we've got another great guest with us. We'll release that on Instagram later in the week who we're going to be getting onto the show, and then we'll sort of start plugging that one. But as I asked at the beginning and I'm going to continue to ask I'm going to become a bit of a bore on this if you could head over to iTunes, just leave a message, leave a star rating you know what you like about the show or on Instagram, leave a comment. It all does help, but for me that's another week done and really enjoying season two. Hope you are too. Speak to you all soon.