Another Mans Shoes
Interviews with fellow military veterans and adventurers about their experiences of war, the lows and times of hardship, joining them on their journey and how this has shaped their lives in the most extraordinary way. Comedy moments, dark humour and witty banter.
Another Mans Shoes
Resilience and Redemption: Big Phil Campion on Military Life, Mental Health, and Media Challenges
What happens when a man who has seen it all returns to share his story? We are thrilled to have Big Phil Campion back with us to uncover the layers of his extraordinary life. Phil's recent journey to Arnhem offered a poignant reminder of the lasting gratitude towards WWII veterans. He reflects on the widening disconnect between younger generations and their understanding of military history, stressing the vital role of real-world experiences and compelling role models. With humor and heart, Phil unravels tales from his own transformative journey—from the struggles of his childhood to finding purpose in the military, emphasizing the profound impact of educators who've ventured beyond traditional settings.
In a deeply personal exchange, Phil opens up about facing and overcoming childhood trauma, sharing how these experiences have forged his resilience while also revealing the internal battles with anger he continues to navigate with his wife Wendy's unwavering support. We explore the grueling mental and physical tests of P Company Selection and Commando training, and the peculiarities of military life in extreme environments—from daunting jungle terrains to adapting to unexpected local delicacies in Afghanistan. The conversation shifts to Phil's post-military ventures, where he candidly discusses the trials of embracing a media career amid controversy and misconceptions, all while staying true to his principles.
As we meander through tales of border crossings and the intrigue of press escapades, we also dive into the crucial topic of mental health in military contexts. Phil shares his insights into the importance of early mental health recognition and the power of open dialogue, drawing from personal stories and broader reflections. We conclude with an appreciation for the youth programs like Army Cadets that build resilience and practical skills in young people. This episode is a masterclass in storytelling, motivation, and understanding the complexities of life beyond the battlefield. Join us for an unforgettable conversation with Big Phil Campion that promises to leave you both entertained and enlightened.
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welcome back to season three of another man's shoes. We've got big phil campion with us today. He's joining us again. He was here in season one and it's one of our most hotly downloaded episodes and everyone had lots of questions. So we brought him back today and we're going to have the conversation with him. We're going to catch up on what he's been doing over the last three, four years, some of his backstory for those that haven't heard the season one episode and generally we're going to have the conversation with him. We're going to catch up on what he's been doing over the last three, four years, some of his backstory for those that haven't heard the season one episode and generally we're just going to spin some bits and have some banter for the next hour. So we're looking forward to this. Phil, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me back. We're looking forward to it. How are we?
Speaker 3:doing. Phil, I'm happy when we talked about this getting together and doing this in Arnhem. What a great trip that was, though.
Speaker 2:Arnhem was absolutely fantastic and the 8th year of year. You couldn't have gone at a better time, could you? Well you could have. You could have gone the first year. I missed that one. So this one's as good as it gets, and quite a poignant year as well, because when you think, even sort of like 10 or 15 years ago, there was probably 120 Arnhem vets there. This year there was one remaining from three, and obviously two couldn't make it for obvious reasons.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean. And next year, who knows how many will be there if, yeah, it is sad.
Speaker 1:I mean we'll go into a bit more detail in a bit. But I think Arnhem we've talked about this on the last couple of episodes because it seems to be like the great real for all the blokes that you go out there and you see all your old mates and it does keep the spirit alive yeah, I mean, it's massively important.
Speaker 2:And do you know what's really humbling? The way that the Dutch people actually embrace it in such a way that they're still saying thank you now yeah, for events that happened back then and you're thinking you've bit.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, but when you?
Speaker 2:see the flower children and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:It's on another level really yeah, it pulls apart the kids over there generationally. They're told right, you know, they're given a grave look after this grave. They're told the story of the person that's lying there or a number of the graves, whereas over here if you say to kids about World War 1, world War 2, sadly a lot of and won't know it anymore.
Speaker 2:It's just going to pass down, completely lost on them. You know I've been to inner city schools with the military preparation colleges stuff that I'm doing now where kids don't even know what Marines are. Do you know what I mean? What's a Marine? Do you know?
Speaker 3:what I mean.
Speaker 2:Outside of Call of Duty. They've got no idea of what the military does or is.
Speaker 1:I say this on every episode. It's because we're all 70s 80s kids. We just grew up with military action heroes, comics, action man figures, so we were always in a very military environment. Our dads and our grandparents were all from a military generation. They knew, didn't they?
Speaker 2:So back in those days, everybody had been affected by the military. If you look at your grandfather's day or my grandfather's day, certainly everybody had been affected or knew somebody who'd been affected by the war. Nowadays we've got kids that haven't got any experience with military, like I say, don't know what it is, where it is, what it does, I've got no clue. And the trouble is as well. School teachers are reluctant to talk about it because we're all baby killers, aren't we? We're all damaged goods. Now, do you know what I mean? We've all had it and so they don't want to talk about it in school as an option. Well, actually it's a great option for kids.
Speaker 1:Great option, especially if you had, like your teachers that had served, that had been somewhere. They brought a bit of discipline to the class. They weren't worried about, you know, getting the cane out, as it was back then. Well, nowadays, if you've got someone, little shout of them and get their respect yeah, yeah, role models is what you need.
Speaker 2:People who've come, who've cut around the planet and actually achieved something in their life, as opposed to, I'm sorry to say, it's school teachers who've spent their whole life in school. They've gone through the school system to college, to university and back to school. Yeah, where is your life experience? Everything you're telling me has come out of a book and someone else has told you yeah, you've done nothing, aren't we?
Speaker 1:so I think that you know we'll come back to this a bit later because it sort of ties in with what you've been doing in the last few years with the army, cadets and everything. But I think if we just sort of roll it back, to sort of the beginning where you came from.
Speaker 1:Obviously we said about season one. We went into a bit of a deep dive. If you don't mind, if you can sort of just give us a bit about you know where you're from your early childhood so the kids, home stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:Obviously I was born in London. Family had already sort of split up, if you want. My old man had disappeared when I was born so my mum decided the best thing to do was. You know it was unspoken about in those days, I mean it all feels it was a bastard, right get rid of him.
Speaker 2:So off he went and I was adopted. The trouble was the adopted family that I ended up with were sort of like they thought they were middle class. They weren't, they were probably lower class. We lived on a council estate but because it was on the fringes, they sort of like they used to change change. Rather, it was a semi-rough estate, it's a house, it's a council estate, but we lived on that estate. But because we lived on the fringes of one, we was hey, we live in Bitton which is quite a nice area in comparison if you were that way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? So yeah, they saw right, they never really got on. The old man beat me. I ended up failing at school, failing at this, failing at that, and I wasn't the greatest but I behaved anyway. But none of this helped it and he used to beat me up quite a lot. So early memories of being smashed about as a child, all that sort of stuff Do you know what I mean? And then, anyway, push comes to a shove. I did quite poorly at school but they realised that I did have potential. I did those little egg tests. You used to get where you fill in three questions.
Speaker 2:What of a choice? And my IQ was up in the 140s. So they said well, there's definitely something there. Do you know what I mean? It's not completely lights out. So they sent me to a public school. Well, everyone else in the public school had been through the public school system, prep school. I turned up at 13 years old in a public school.
Speaker 3:I was like.
Speaker 2:Who is this fella? Do you know what I mean? I got bullied there quite badly, ended up turning on my grit on the person that bullied me the most and I ended up coming off worse because I got thrown out of school yeah, although it was quite satisfying to smash his head in. Do you know what I mean? But I ended up in a children's home system, then saw it through. Children's home system didn't get any better for me sexually harassed, um, abused, bullied, horrendous and joined the army, really as an escape, yeah, from everything. I realized once I was in the army that was like once I went through the gates of the camp you can't get me in there anymore, you know yeah, so it was like it was almost like the army gave me.
Speaker 2:And that's why I've got so much time for the army now, because I realized how much to me at the time it meant when I had nothing, do you know? I mean, I was that low when I went to the careers office I could have got under a snake's belly with a fucking top out. I'm not doing, but the army gave me something to cling to and obviously I enjoyed the army. Um, roller coaster rides, it was through. The army started off the royal amstead. Then we amalgamated. Um, I've done the commando course at that stage. Uh, we amalgamated, we went five airborne, did pre-company, yeah, ended up doing selection, went to D squadron. Obviously I've gobbed off so much about all the rest of it. Everyone knows anyway. Everyone knows there you go. So that was, that's roughly it.
Speaker 2:And then onto the circuit at a time when there was loads going on. Do you know what I mean? Iraq and Afghanistan was in full swing. There was money to be made. It was quite easy to make that money, although quite dangerous. Afghanistan, iraq. And then I branched out into Gaza, west Africa, I went all over the place basically.
Speaker 2:I mean just chasing the dollar really for years. It then all came on top for me. Probably had a little bit of mental health, Ended up reminded in custody for attempted murder. That never went anywhere, but once I got, out it absolutely wrecked everything I had.
Speaker 2:I couldn't get a job on the circuit for love nor money because I'd had to hand my licenses in for a year. And then, basically, I ended up through. I'd written a book at that stage and just thought well, I was living in a caravan, homeless, at the time that Tom Blake Blake lent me the caravan. I still own the caravan, anyway. He lent me the caravan, I went into London, worked on a building site, parked the caravan up, provided security, filmed skips during the day, slept on the place at night, went to the Ivy for a drink in a charity shop, so ended up on TV. That's the rough story, brilliant, yeah well, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were talking the other day about this, martin weren't we about ptsd?
Speaker 1:um, obviously quite an emotive subject. Uh, you know, I suppose there's a perception out there that a lot of people's ptsd comes from what they've done when they've been in the military. You know you've been in some nasty contacts seen some horrible things iraq, afghan ireland, wherever it may be. But then, martin, you brought up a good point about it. Yeah, actually being younger.
Speaker 3:So, like you know, with the childhood trauma and stuff, I think there's definitely that going on with me and then and then later on um, that the military stuff could actually be the trigger that causes the mental health issues from the childhood trauma. So that's why, when, when you, you know you, you sort of sit down with someone and talk to them about it, they kind of want to start from when you were, you know, from birth. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I went through the fostering process? Yeah, me and my wife did, and part of that process is for someone to come in and have a chat with you, and it's two four-hour sessions. I don't know and they do nought to 18, and then 18 to current and my nought to 18 actually overran the four-hour, four hours yeah.
Speaker 3:And then the 18 to current and that had you know the tours of afghan, the. You know all my military stuff, um, but but the childhood stuff took a lot longer, um, and that actually made me reflect at the time on, you know, stuff that had happened from when I was a kid and stuff that you buried, do you? You know what I mean, yeah, and you know I've not got PTSD, but it just sort of brought up some skeletons, I think for me as much as.
Speaker 2:As much as I've had sort of like negative stuff that happened to me when I was, when I was young.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I've drawn positive from it.
Speaker 2:So I basically always say that when my dad used to beat me, he used to sit on my chest and he used to hit me in the face and he used to hurt, really hurt, and I would scream and kick. And I soon worked out that if I stopped screaming and kicking and went limp he'd stop. So in my own mind I could now control it. All right, you'd have the shock of capture. You'd be screaming for a bit and and he'd go. I'll tell you what. I'll just oh, there you go, yeah, got it. And then he'd go wow, and he'd stuck. And in my own mind I was controlling it. But that was a win. It was only a small win. I mean the same with things. It's a tiny little win, but it was a win and that sort of I think that gave me a resilient attitude for the rest of my life, that even tiny bit of air back in them, little things here. Do you know what I mean? Get your chest back up again. You can go again. Do you know what I mean? You might get knocked over several times, but as long as you can get back up, and that's what that came from being a kid.
Speaker 2:On the downside of that, it made me massively angry inside. I found it hard to control my aggression. I've never really looked at it. Now someone I'm not going to say I was no, no problem, no means a perfect person. Do you know? I mean, and I could have a tear up. I enjoyed a tear up and I was a bit of a nightmare sometimes, but I wasn't a nasty person and I think sometimes what happened to me in my, in my childhood, brought out a nasty side, a horrible, vicious, disgusting side, which you know. Hopefully now I don't see, see at all anymore, but a lot of that stemmed from that, you know. I mean, I could be completely lose it. Could you switch it off?
Speaker 3:though I could switch it off.
Speaker 2:I could switch it off, but I couldn't stop it from being switched on. Yeah, it would get to such a stage whereby, if the bright buttons were pushed, yeah it's on and there's nothing I can do about that. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's what I've learned over the years to quell or recognise the signs early enough to go. It's going wrong here. I'm going to walk away before it goes absolutely.
Speaker 3:What is one of your sort of if you don't mind, what is one of your coping mechanisms for recognising that?
Speaker 2:Just being aware of my surroundings, and that's why I don't drink so much now. If you notice, I never get to the stage where I was sort of like wetting myself which I'd love to, but I'm not.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:but that's one of the things that you know, if I can keep an eye on my surroundings yeah. Wendy keeps an eye out for me tremendously. Now do identify people that could potentially wind me up, or she'll listen to the way her conversation's going. Come on, phil, we've had enough of that one. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've seen that she plays a huge part. She's solid man.
Speaker 2:If someone comes to me, she knows I can't drink shots. If I drink shots, there'll be an event somewhere, or there'll be some violence. There's only two ends right. So if she sees someone headed over to me with a shot, she'll intercept it or she'll take it off me before I'm about to drink it and tip it out and throw the empty. Do you know what I mean? She nuns, that's great, isn't it?
Speaker 1:she nuns, you've got that one.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's where we're going wrong. Maybe we need to start inviting the robbers she's got the binder.
Speaker 2:She might not get lost.
Speaker 1:I told you Bill wouldn in Arnby never catch the wave. Start calling him Compton. We got a few of them in the charity. They are proper T-Rexes. They weigh their hands, can meet their wallet so sort of touching back a few bit.
Speaker 1:You know the last few people we've had on have all done e-company selection pathfinder, whatever it may be, no commando. In back of you a bit. You know the last few people we've had on have all done P Company Selection Pathfinder, whatever it may be, no Commando. I think the last Commando train guy I read on was Dean Stott and he took us in that in detail. But I don't want to go into the ins and outs of it. But if you sort of had your time again, would you do both?
Speaker 2:Commando and with them both, and they're both different courses for many different ways. Yeah, I mean, I think, p Company, just the very nature of it you know you had to do. Coming from where I came from, you had to do a three week beat up in the battalion, a three week log battalion beat up, to do a beat up on P Company, to do P Company. You do it nine weeks basically and you're being smash, smash, smash smash. Whereas the commando course, all right, there was some extremely physical, hard demanding, physical exercises to be done, but it was broken up with spattering of soldiers in between. Do you know what I mean? So you went out on an exercise and did OPs, you did some navigation, you did some advances to contact and all that sort of stuff. So very different courses Tied again completely. I, I think I would have probably joined one or the other Parachute Regiment or the Royal Marines and I just feel that you know I've gone round the sun to get to the moon, haven't I? I've done it the long way.
Speaker 2:And I've got a tremendous amount of respect for young people who pass P Company from depot and the commando course from the 38-week course that they do as a commando. Massive amount of respect for that, because for me, what I did the commando course I suppose I was 20 years old. I'd have been disappointed if I didn't pass it at that stage. I was a fit young man. Do you know what I mean? Just come from a close observation platoon in Northern Ireland and if you can't pass the commando course then you're never going to pass it, are you? So some of the skills and traits I already had Same with P Company I've been in, you know I was 24 years old or whatever. I've been in a fair while I went to I couldn't pass P Company. There'd be a massive problem with me, you know what I mean as far as I could see.
Speaker 1:But you've just been on the P Company recording. I mean you've been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, when. And the blue tops they still paint their number on the side, yeah, yeah, so I've got well, they don't. The P company, the staff wear the denims now they still wear the denims.
Speaker 1:Oh, they so retro, didn't they? Yeah, white on one side, green on the other. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean so they can't get them anymore. So a friend of mine he's got a surplus place and he can't sell them.
Speaker 1:They love that, yeah, all the olive green trousers delivering alinus to pea companies. You know what I mean it's like you used to cut your pillowcase, didn't you, and sew it to your chest and you put your number on there.
Speaker 2:I've still got mine. Ironically, my number for pea company was 22 and I've still got my dad's.
Speaker 1:I can't get them on one leg now it's amazing how stuff shrinks when you don't wear it yeah have you um.
Speaker 3:So obviously you know I've spoke about it in previous episodes. You know, as recently left the service etc. While I was serving um I ran and helped out on you know a couple of um pre-powers and stuff like that not brigade ones, um, but you know the the unit ones um. And also when I was an instructor at phase two, we we used to run like a specialist pt class um. Have you got uh any advice for anyone that's listening or watching on? Uh, you know on youtube um, that will help them prepare for you know don't listen to people who failed.
Speaker 2:yeah, don Don't ask people who failed for advice, because they're going to probably gather some of their own shortcomings by telling you how hard it is. Do you know?
Speaker 3:what I mean, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they'll always try and put you off. Yeah, they won't want you to pass, they won't want you to do something that they haven't done or managed to complete, or project yeah, yeah yeah so it's that's good advice. I just I always tell people with selection commando course, even things like junior brecon speak to the people that have been there, seen it, done it and are now wearing the badge to prove that. Do you know what I mean? And they'll give you encouragement because you know I want to see young people pass P company.
Speaker 2:I want to see young people pass the commando course selection yeah you know so, but it's important that you get the right advice from the right people. And the other thing I always say to people is don't go. I see guys going mad on their pre-training mad, yeah do you know?
Speaker 1:I mean, they turn off the switch and they're like switching on resources.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fucking hell, mate, you're gonna break in about two minutes, aren't?
Speaker 1:you?
Speaker 2:yeah, we always told you should be peaking at the end of the course exactly, and the course is going to give you enough opportunity to get beasted. Believe me, do you know what I mean? So, heart and lungs, I did loads of swimming and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? Which just kept it all working but wasn't putting too much pressure on it. I said it wasn't running up and down hills with great big packs and just before I went on selection as well.
Speaker 2:For the record, and I've said this before, I had almost my body and I went jeez there's nothing left. I was like there was just a you know. It pinched your skin and it's like, well, you can't, no, you can grab out. I was looking at myself going you ain't got nothing to give, there is nothing on you to give. So I literally loaded up with all the food and the Guinness and, yeah, you name it, I made a pig of myself.
Speaker 1:And it bonus. But yeah, yeah, I mean, when you turn up and do the hills, you're not straight into test week. You got four exactly, yeah, you do, I don't know how it is now.
Speaker 2:I think they did. I think they might have even lost a week now, but I'm not sure. But in my day it was, you know, you got a week of briefings and, yeah, light runs. I mean, there were light runs dickie bow, wouldn't that sort of stuff right, I mean but they weren't impossible. You did your bft and your 2 miler and your 8 miler on the first day or whatever it was, but there was nothing really hard there. And then it sort of like started. They took you up to the fan dance. You did that. That was the first test and then after that it was like progressively harder, longer and culminating in the obvious endurance one at the end. But so what.
Speaker 1:What did you do? What year was your Hills course, was it?
Speaker 2:96 or 97?. 96 or 97?.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Course one, so the winter course.
Speaker 1:Winter course you got through first time. Yeah, how did you find the Hills versus the Jungle?
Speaker 2:The Hills is just, it's just a league. Yeah, they're not looking at you as a soldier. They couldn't give a shit how you carry your weapon. You, they couldn't give a shit how you carry your weapon.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. They don't care, just can you get from A to B? Can you read a mat? Have you got what it takes to keep going when everything's against you? Yeah, yes. So the jungle, I think, is harder in every aspect, in terms of the hills are now bigger, they're longer, they're covered in trees, it rains twice a day. You know Olympicigning sessions twice a day. Yeah, you know everything. Once you're dead, you're under the canopy, it's stinking, it's honking. You're standing all these, but you were soldiering. I've now got them two or three of them that I'm like I'm doing this. Do you know what I mean and everything I'm learning? I'm going you, you know they're showing me I'm doing it and then they're testing me to do it. I fucking loved it.
Speaker 2:So the hardship was almost swallowed up by the fact that I'm now, in my eyes, walking around like a blade yeah that is true.
Speaker 1:I mean, do you have the jungle mark?
Speaker 3:no, you didn't get to go out there. No, as previously said, my limits were P company we didn't go out there on excise.
Speaker 1:Do a lot of bleeds?
Speaker 3:no, I didn't do, we did. We did do a jungle package, mount Kenya, kafandini yeah, I like Kafandini.
Speaker 2:Massive, great, stupid rats, weren't they? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I don't know what they were. They were some sort of. There was some sort of monkey there that just fucking wanted to kill us. So yeah, screaming all the time as well yeah, um, but I've not done you know, belize jungle. Just a couple of days there, um, we brought some goats and chickens off the locals which were, um, slim, there was hardly any meat on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we kind of, you know, put them in a holding area. We had to give them names and then yeah, exactly, but that's sort of four days so I wouldn't really call it a jungle.
Speaker 1:Yeah it was an experience. It was just an experience. Yeah, I think the worst thing being in the jungle was the wet, dry routine. You had to really get into it the whole time and if you get it wrong.
Speaker 2:You get it wrong because it's a catastrophic malfunction and it's like yep, that's it.
Speaker 1:Your kit's ruined once your kit's wet.
Speaker 2:It's wet and you're absolute. You ain't getting it dry. There's no chance. Do you know what I mean? So?
Speaker 1:waking up in the morning putting your boots on. I've got my damp eventually.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? My admin's a place in China for me. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:we were right, because we were on the other side, had them chuck a bit of fresh on there for you, nice can of coke, you know, some new boots and sorts lovely. Then we were in the schoolhouse like stood there at the front you could smell people.
Speaker 2:If they had new kit on, you could smell the new kit. I remember we had a. Rupert went out on my selection. I think the DS had got rid of him, but the CO turned around. He wanted him, we had to see his parcel, yeah, yeah. So he'd come back in. He'd only been out a day but he'd had a shower, a shave.
Speaker 3:Fucking A like.
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ he smelled, he'd probably like wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're just hulking on it. Yeah, well, you pick up on it. I mean that's what you say in Vietnam didn't it to start eating local food before?
Speaker 3:you get out and you start fobs and everything, because the Vietnamese can smell you coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very true, my first trip to. Afghanistan. I spent about eight months in country and I couldn't get any Western food whatsoever, so I just ate out of those huts with the big long bits of bread and just whatever meat we could get our hands on from Chicken 3 and all that sort of stuff. When I came back I'd had no milk, no dairy and I could smell dairy on people. I could smell like people smelled like this really odd cheesy gone off smell. It's disgusting.
Speaker 1:I've got a couple of friends who do that.
Speaker 2:My wife used to say you smell, like you know, like the Indian shops and the Pakistani shops used to smell when you went in them, she said like you've been surrounded and I did, you are Mr Gorgonzola, it's far worse than going into the shop it's gopping and I was like, oh, that is angry.
Speaker 1:Did you get poorly out with the food out in Afghanistan at all? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah proper did you go out there in 2000, 2000? No, it would be 2001, wouldn't it? After the twin tavers, obviously a few of the squadrons nipped out there for some.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got out there 2001, 2002 yeah, bag room bug yeah yeah honestly, I ground slammed without the stuff I had over there. I really did. We had a couple of guys.
Speaker 1:I think one guy one may have died 100%, but one of our you were absolutely fucked back to Ramstein touch and go shit state and it turned out it was because they were eating the bread that the locals were delivering into them.
Speaker 2:Because they sleep on it, don't they? They sleep on it at night because it's warm.
Speaker 1:It's disgusting. And one minute they're mixing the bread up, the next minute they're picking the dung up to make their mud hut. Or whatever.
Speaker 2:There used to be a cafe in the centre of town. It was the only one that could get meat properly, and it was called the Herat, and they had no refrigeration.
Speaker 3:It was called the.
Speaker 2:Herat and they had no refrigeration, and so what they used to do was they used to peel the carpet back, put all these skewers under the carpet and then when he went in there, they'd get two skewers out and stick them on the feet, and that's how they kept the meat under the carpet. But you can imagine the amount of just walking through the transfer of what was on the floor and open fluid car ball in the back streets. Yeah, it's just minging it. Do you know what I mean? Did you ever go up on the hill, the hill with the swimming pool and car ball?
Speaker 3:and look over the sea.
Speaker 2:There's just a layer of fecal dust in the morning.
Speaker 1:You can't see the houses it's disgusting absolutely honking.
Speaker 2:That is the middle east, so that's what you've got so, if you can see it, that's what you're breathing and it's like, yeah, I've got some horrendous bugs. It is awful.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've been on a single tour or adventure since I've done since leaving where.
Speaker 3:I haven't gone proper man down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what it is, but when I came back from a wrap I had hepatitis over in the water. It wiped me out. You know, you go through this stage where you feel like you're dying and then a couple of days later you don't care if you die because you feel that shit. Just swallowing fistful. Take the Imodium, blocks you up, yeah, blocks you up, but it's still in there.
Speaker 1:I never knew that when I first started do a whole episode on that one. So basically the top tips are don't talk to anyone that's failed any of these courses.
Speaker 2:Don't take Imodium don't over train, yeah, don't over train.
Speaker 1:Don't do your pre-training in Afghanistan and and blister, get yourself squared away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so your feet and your boots, obviously I mean, it goes without saying, but your feet and your boots, don't go putting new boots on for the course because you think they're going to last you better. You know what I mean. Break your boots in properly and all that sort of stuff, and your bag and your weapon. You know your weapon needs breaking in just as much as your boots, exactly, otherwise all those hot spots are just going anyway. You've got your head around that. You know what I mean. Enough zinc, benzene will sort that out, but you don't want them appearing in places that you didn't want it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You see blokes at the end of the day taking their kit off. They've got like sanitary towels and stuff, because the only thing that gives you a bit of padding where you hit your hot spots might be a bit different now nipples nipple rub used to tape them up, didn't we?
Speaker 2:because the shirt used to yeah, I think blood porn stuff.
Speaker 3:Two friends with black masks, you know you mentioned you mentioned before Afghan, when you know, 2000, 2000 to 2002, was that? Was that a private contract? Yeah, so. I went straight out there touch on that a little bit yeah, basically I worked for the European Commission.
Speaker 2:They had no security advisor and the ambassador for the European Commission was Danish, so they had no one in Denmark who had a capability of close protection. So they went through a civvy company in the UK. I ended up getting a shout, went out there Originally as a Team 2IC. I ended up taking over the team. It was a great little contract I stayed out there for nearly three years.
Speaker 2:It was alright, did all sorts of stuff, went all around the country. You know we had diplomatic privileges so we could call on assets. You know you could get helicopters if you needed otherwise yeah, it was a good job for me and one of my first jobs after leaving the regiment, obviously so it was. Yeah, I had such a laugh over there as well. I mean, contrary to people's belief, car bull in the first couple of years after it fell was an absolute laugh, do you know?
Speaker 2:what I mean. You could go to the UN club, you could go to the. Un club the Danish. The Dutch embassy. The Dutch embassy. The ambassador was a woman and we used to get invited up there as a team, but you had to break curfew to get there, so we used to literally walk down the bottom street and, whilst they're up, bacan, sneak up there.
Speaker 3:Can't have a bit of beers.
Speaker 2:And on the way back there was one street that used to lead up to the roundabout at the top where the British Embassy is now, and you'd get challenged on the 12th there. You'd have to sprint down the road. Get back home better luck next time.
Speaker 1:How did you feel like being out there? Because obviously you just left the regiment. Just done Sierra, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:it was a funny time because I knew that the regiment were going to be there. I actually bumped into them in the British Embassy when it was the old one over the back in there. I thought what are you doing? I thought you got out. I said, well, what's it got to do with you?
Speaker 2:I'm a civvy now I'm sure I've still been a butler anyway. I saw various lads over there. To be honest, I knew they'd be doing some really cool stuff and I babysitting a load of diplomats you know what I mean and it was quite a kick in the face, to be honest. But you know they weren't earning 50 grand a year or whatever. It was back then Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So that was the only slight payoff if you could take. That was that you were earning proper decent money then and you were doing, in terms of what you would have been doing, quite a little for it. Do you know what I mean? It was still dangerous. There was still an element of you know doing the job properly and all that sort of stuff. So it wasn't a complete skive, but it wasn't running around caves looking for bad guys, was it?
Speaker 1:Rounds down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, you know, the whole time I was there. You know, probably just you weren't there to do that. If you were getting rounds down, it was nine times out of ten because you'd made a mistake that's right.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? So it wasn't you know. You were there to avoid that sort of thing. So actually, I mean the early days was really good. The seals were looking after Karzai. We used to go and visit them in the palace all the on a number of occasions Because we were the only CP time. You remember they used to wear those fishing jackets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:I ain't doing a diplomatic visit with a fishing jacket on, because I ain't going to get fed. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to get shoved out of the back from the Afghan security. So I was like no chance, I'm wearing a suit. So we used to wear suits, we used to tuck, pulled me on the status wire. I said where are you from? I went I'm from the European Commission, sir. Oh, well done. And he started cracking on with all this stuff Because I knew what the projects were. I knew that we had a road being built down to Jalanaban and all this sort of stuff. So I'm cracking on with Karzai and my ambassador was a cracking fella he's from Denmark, Lovely fella and he just let it happen. So in the end, Carzai said I said oh, by the way, this is my ambassador. And Carzai thought I was the ambassador.
Speaker 2:He said drop me out quick and I'll go away. Scum Away from you and the Americans. So we there was one day we went into the arena and we were watching a game with this Bush, cassie, you know where. They dragged the horses about all that sort of stuff and there was some guns going off and all that sort of stuff and the Americans, the SEALs, were on Karzai and it was proper tight. You could not get into this thing. Anyway, we're sat in this thing and I'm sat here, karzai's, literally two away from me. My ambassador's in here. I've got an American security there. An American security there, american security there. Out of the blue, this Afghan comes charging into the arena with this great big it can only be described as a Bonduk type gun. It was part of the show but I didn't realise. So literally boom, boom, the Americans have shot up. I've shot up and pulled and fucking grabbed my ambassador in and the Americans gone.
Speaker 2:He thought I was a he thought I was a he thought I was a diplomat. He was like I don't know what he was talking about. Great to see we've got another, another protection in the team. You know what I mean? Loved it, thought it was great and they said you fooled us because I just thought straight through this through all their layers of security undercover? Yes, straight through and they loved it yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's the law of the black evidence. All of a sudden out comes.
Speaker 2:Mr Glock, you know what I mean right, well, and then.
Speaker 1:So you went from Afghan and then you sort of came, you went on the circuit, yeah, yeah all of Iraq was opening up.
Speaker 2:A very good friend of mine, john Davison, had a company called Rubicon at the time. Later became Aeg and that's when I left. But he had loads of work. So he was, you know, he had stuff going all over the place motor roller contract. They were putting towers in. They needed that. They needed Iraqis to go out and do it. So you know, I led a team of Iraqis, trained them up, all that sort. It was fun work. It was, I mean, back in the day when there was nothing going on in the decent job, because you'd have got a pile of dough for it, wouldn't you? You'd have got the kit you want, you'd have gone and been able to make purchases in country, all that sort of stuff. It would have been a fun thing to do. But in the back of my mind everybody else was kicking doors in. You know best getting in a convoy and perhaps getting a couple of rounds off here and there, but nothing, nothing in the realms of what I would have.
Speaker 2:You know would have been up to if I'd have been still winning, but you know I wasn't, so you know that's.
Speaker 2:It's what it is, though, isn't it? It is making a bit of dough, do you know what I mean? So I wasn't completely going without, but the money side of things eventually was my downfall, because I did have so much money in my pocket. On leave, I'll drink, I'll be proper drinking, like. Do you know what I mean. And that's when I started getting myself into all sorts of problems and the old stuff was coming out and you know, yeah, and then you obviously had to bother with the police.
Speaker 2:Yeah, had a bit of bother with that, you know what I mean. And then, before you know it, you're sat in your. You're sat in your salon window and I literally did that. I looked in the mirror. That one of those. Have you ever watched? Sexy Beasts with Don Logan yeah. I'm looking in the mirror doing exactly the same thing going you fuck.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's a low point in your life, but you've sort of really pulled it back. Well again.
Speaker 2:I realised that at this point there was two avenues. You know you either roll with this now and you know I'd be in and out, and you know, perhaps I'll meet the right people in here and I can try and do something about it. And I decided I'll get out and try and do something about it, because that's what I wanted to do do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is the bit we sort of finished the last podcast. Yeah, I know, by that point, you know you've written the book. Yeah, um, born fearless. Yeah, born fearless was out then.
Speaker 2:So that was done, all right. When it came out and I realised I had a foot in it, all right. It's frowned upon within certain elements of the regiment. The media thing they don't like it. I don't come across too many people that are completely against it. Now I think people realise, even if they don't like it. They realise that sometimes, especially in the way that I left, I've been backed into a corner a little bit. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not going to just lie down and, like I say, go down one route or another. I'm going to fight for everything I've got with everything I've got and anyone who ever says to me well, you're using the regiment to make money. What did you put on your CV when you got your high falutin job with BP? What was on your CV? Was it just Sergeant Major from the infantry or was it special forces sergeant major from you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean, did you put SAS on there by any chance? Did you use that as an leverage? Of course you did. You've got to use the tools you've got in your boxing, haven't you? And for me, so long as I haven't compromised anybody else's welfare which I don't believe I have I'm in a good place with it, and testament to that is that you know I can still go to places like Arnhem and I don't get filled in, in fact, on contrary.
Speaker 1:They can't fill you in.
Speaker 2:They've got.
Speaker 1:Wendy She'll stop you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, Wendy will see you coming anyway. But that's how I feel about that sort of stuff. I never wanted to do it. I don't particularly enjoy it. I'm going to be honest, I don't particularly enjoy some of the media stuff that I've had to do, especially, you know, when I was on programs like the Pledge, and you know all they've done is basically tee the right winger up which I'm not, by the way. Do you know what I mean? So they've, you know they've tried to portray me as something that I'm not in order to make their program a little bit better, so they can air the view of this person but have that person all that stuff. And I didn't enjoy that. But I needed the money. I had nothing else. You know what I mean. I couldn't get a job on the circuit. Nobody was prepared to employ me, you know, because of what had happened. So you know I had to go and do something else but you were.
Speaker 1:You were talking to the pledge that was the Sky News that was the Sky News, like debate imploding.
Speaker 2:There was people like Boris Johnson there, rachel, you had you know a couple of. They've all ended up at LBC, haven't they? Do you know what I mean as presenters there now?
Speaker 2:but like I say, it was it was something you did when you were on the pledge Channel Migrant Crossings yeah, so when the Brexit thing was on, that was when I was on, that was when I was on the pledge and obviously I was pro-Brexit. You know what I mean? I'm British to the core, yeah, and I've always wanted a pint of beer and I always wanted to spend a pound and I couldn't give a shit about the Europeans, if I'm honest.
Speaker 2:You know, what I mean. So for me, brexit was a no-brainer. They used that to their advantage. They asked me basically, I got asked by somebody who I now know is Aaron Banks. I didn't know at the time where this footage was going to go, and someone said they want you to prove that it's easy to bring migrants across the channel, because it's a major problem. But that's also going to, you know, highlight that there is an area which is insecure within the border force. So I said, yeah, no problem. I said I'm going to do it. So you know we hired a rib. Yeah, no problem. I said I'll go and do it. So you know we hired a rib.
Speaker 2:We got on this thing. We took it over to France. I pre-positioned three or four blokes over there. I picked them up, I brought them back on the day before I went. I wreckied all the places I could drop off. So I took this rib and I went down to Folkestone. I went down to all these places along Hastings, all these places where there was beaches, drove it up onto the beach completely unopposed, went into Folkestone, onto the harbour, onto the thing, got on and off the rib, sent people up and down the ladder, nothing right. So goes over to France, spent the night there, picked these fellas up, come back on the rib, dropped them off. I think I dropped them off in Folkestone or Dover or somewhere. Anyway, dropped them off, going off. You get up. They went into the thing, did a lap of honour around the port, actually drove around the customs boat twice to see if anybody would come out. They didn't, alright, and then disappeared.
Speaker 2:So I did this, I filmed it all and I've got the footage and if anyone wants to see it I'll let you have it actually and you can put it out on yours if you want. But anyway, great piece of footage, great bit of work, showed it on the pledge and anyway, channel 4 had a thing against this Aaron Banks because he was Brexit, and Channel 4 obviously were against Brexit. They were Remainers or whatever you want to call them. So what they wanted to do was highlight that Aaron Banks was an idiot. So they picked this piece of work to pieces. That I did said, oh, we could never have done that, it couldn't have been there, it wouldn't have happened like this, and all that sort of stuff Got me in a bit of a sting. So I got a phone call from my agent at the time. It was a girl called Chloe. She was quite naive. And Chloe says oh, channel 4 want to speak to you about how you did the migrant thing and they want to reproduce it.
Speaker 2:I should have switched on at this point and thought no, they don't, they want to upend me. I didn't. I went into a, into a studio, I started having a conversation and within two seconds I realized, wow, this is a sting. So I walked out. In hindsight I should have probably justified myself and given it a bit more of an argument, but I didn't. I went no, no, this is wrong, you're trying to upend me. I was just down tools and walked out. Of course, they showed that bit. He walked out. He couldn't handle it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is how they did all sorts of other stuff that they'd manufactured and put together.
Speaker 2:Anyway, long story short, I lost my job at Sky. I had two treatments in with Channel 4 for SAS who Dares Wins? I wrote that and I also wrote Hunted. Those never went anywhere for me, obviously because the guys are on the show now. They've done a really good job of it and actually I'm glad for them, but it was my idea. I'll have you know that. And so was Hunted. We scuppered Hunted last year actually, by the way, I'll let you know about that later, but anyway. So the offshock it was. I lost my job.
Speaker 2:About six months later, aaron Banks took Channel 4 and took him to court because they tried to muddy the waters for him. It was proven that, as part of this case, what I did was perfectly legitimate, was perfectly true, wasn't fake news, and I had done what I'd said I'd done, which was go across the channel, retrieve people, bring them back, dump them off without being seen. Alright, channel 4 know this. I never got a single apology from Channel 4. The most upsetting thing for me really was I wasn't bothered about Channel 4 because they obviously had it in for Banks and I was a pawn who got trampled in the on-showing scuffle. Right, I can deal with that. What I couldn't deal with is Sky News, who professed to be a gold armed-forced chartered member. Do you know what I mean? You know we're part of this and the other we look after our armed forces.
Speaker 2:They absolutely dumped on me. They let me go without even a discussion. I got a text off the producer Don't bother coming in for your next show. They've got rid of you on the strength of fake news. All right, I phoned up repeatedly, I sent emails, which I've got to, which I was never answered back. Just oh, we've decided that we, you know, your place is untenable here. When it was all turned around and they know about that sky news never offered an apology and never offered me my job back, and to me it was spineless, absolutely spineless, you know. I mean, they never had me and they never discussed it with me. They never. They just went straight down the route of right. We'll get rid of him. And yet they profess to be gold standard on the armed forces, covenant and all that sort of stuff, and they're not. They're shit bags.
Speaker 2:I didn't think you could just get rid of someone like that.
Speaker 3:I thought you had to give them.
Speaker 2:So the problem was show-to-show basis as a consultant. So I was literally just coming in. I wasn't on a Sky News contract, there was no, no paperwork. So yeah, but that you knew. I mean, that was my monthly job. Two or three shows a month, that was what I did for a living, do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean they've engineered and it's been weak. I mean that's just disappointing how people in life you know, I know where it all came from.
Speaker 2:I know where it all came from. It came from Alex Ramsey and that Crawford.
Speaker 2:And they didn't like the fact that Guy News sent me to Syria to make Big Phil's War and it rated higher than anything they'd done previously or before. It absolutely smashed it. They loved it. It was a great piece of work. If you've seen Big Phil's War, it was a cracking piece of work.
Speaker 2:And anyway, I went on Eamon Holmes' show and Eamon said to me, why did they send you, phil, and why didn't they send, for instance, one of our correspondents? I said I'll tell you why they sent me Eamon because I understand the battlefield, because that is what I've spent years learning and understanding how to behave on, and so I can converse with troops. And I made reference to other individuals who cut around the battlefield, don't really know what they're doing and become a liability. And they took that the wrong way, I think, and they refused basically to do anything until I was removed and all that sort of stuff. And that's why, you know, big Phil's War should have had a sequel. Big Phil's War should have been Big Phil's War, ukraine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when you look at Alex Crawford who went to Ukraine, made a, made a right mess of things, got torn up, got shot at, you know, became an embuggerance to everybody Do? You know what I mean? You're in the way, you're a pain All for you know what you're calling. It's not great TV, it's rubbish. And not only that, you're putting other people's lives at risk making it. They don't understand what's going on on the battlefield. And all right, because you've got a cut doesn't mean you know your way around the battlefield. In fact, you know the way they were cutting around. They'd present. The average Russian soldier does not read or understand what press says, but he sees a black cut down the helmet and a body armour and thinks I'll tell you what they're coming for me Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I'll have some of that they're.
Speaker 1:I may well go and do my own.
Speaker 2:I may well go, and do my own at some stage. You know what I mean, and if anybody out there wants to fund me, by the way, then you know what I mean, if you can drop me a line, I'll get it on straight away.
Speaker 1:Just avoid some of the Israeli drones and their snipers, interesting stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean I've been looking at it and you know there's a lot of work over there, so I do. I do get the the cyber side of it now, which is frightening, I'm saying it's all going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look at the drones, you know tens of thousands of drones a month just they're free 400 pound and they're flying in sorties, aren't they?
Speaker 2:it's not just, you know, filling his backyard, flying his dji, whatever do you know? I mean, it's like these things are coming in waves and sorties, aren't they?
Speaker 1:it Unbelievable and it's cheap. You just strap a bit of mortar or a bit of. C4 onto it. There's some kiddies there. He just flies it across, chases you around your tank. You get tired, then he blows you out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we've all seen the footage of these people working out of bunkers and all that sort of stuff. Do technology?
Speaker 1:It's very strange.
Speaker 2:It's incredible.
Speaker 1:You've been to Ukraine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how did you find that yeah?
Speaker 1:interesting.
Speaker 2:Get stuck.
Speaker 1:You know, I got in trouble.
Speaker 2:So the story was. I'm not going to say who the company was, but there was a company who had business critical people inside the Ukraine who needed to come out. They were fighting H-mails. But this company was prepared to pay quite a lot of money to see them on the other side so they could carry on doing their work for them. I went in. I recce'd it, obviously I couldn't get them through the borders, but I did go in through the borders, legitimately. I went up to Lviv, had a look around, drove all down the border on both sides, but unbeknownst to myself, whilst I myself, whilst I was on the polish side, I got seen, um, by a drone, ironically, got seen by a drone. So when I tipped up to do the, to do the lift, I told them to be on the other side. I said as soon as the coast is clear, just run the border. There's no major defenses, there's certainly no mines on there. And if not, I said you're just going to run. Once you're in poland, you're on your own. That's it. You get to poland, you declare who you are, you'll, because at the time the Polish didn't agree with the policies over there and said that if they make it back. They'll look after them. So they were fine.
Speaker 2:So we get to the border, a police jeep one of those jeep, cherokee things, jeep Wranglers tags us straight away, follows us in. I'm like, oh right, we've already got a bloke in the bush watching the thing. We're like God. So we drive past him, park up, get out, and I thought to myself I'm going to have to put in something here to get these guys across. I don't care what happens, as long as these guys get across. So I go walking across. It's a big open peri track and there's blue and yellow posts on one side and red and white on the other. It's insane. There are big old posts in the floor. So I literally walk across.
Speaker 2:So I literally walk across, hear some shouting from the other side. They've seen our guy in the bush, they've seen me. This is the Ukrainians and they're issuing a challenge. This is like weapons made ready. You keep moving, I'm going to shoot you. So we're hands up, they're hands up. Everyone's all like, oh god, this is horrendous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically, we get lifted back in. They put us in our car. Um, yeah, basically we get lifted back in. They put us in our car, followed us to an up, to a military camp. We get out in the military camp, um, there's a guard on us permanently and they question us for hours and hours and hours about you know what are you doing, what are you? And they think we're Wagner. They think we're like, they think we're British, but they know we're British, but they think we're going to go and fight for Wagner.
Speaker 2:They haven't seen the guys coming across, even if they've made it, don't know, don't care at this stage, couldn't care. I just know that I've facilitated it. If they win the Super, I don't know if they made it or not, I don't know what they've seen, so I can't say anything. We don't know if they get over or nothing. So we basically, with our contains, we can't talk to each other because I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know they've put us in just like a normal room, but I don't know if it's bugged. So we're sort of like sat there staring at each other. All four of us have had a bit of training, like you know. I mean. So we're like looking at each other, going well, I ain't saying nothing like that.
Speaker 2:I mean we're all hauled off and I basically, before we'd even gone down there, we'd printed off these press cards on magnetic stuff so we could put it on the car, but we hadn't had time to put it on and the cover story was going to be we're press and we're covering people coming illegally across the border, right, that's the cover story. So, again, I'm just hoping that the other guys in the room are going to roll with this and have remembered everything we taught. So we're like, okay, okay. So I get hauled out and luckily, in my wallet I've got and I've still got it today um, a sky news press card. There you go, sky news press. So I said to the guy you know, I'm press and this is what I'm doing. This is where I've been Great story Surprised. You haven't heard of it. Do you know who?
Speaker 2:I am and that's when the line came out. I said I'd never say this line. I said oh, by the way, do you not know who I am? I'm Big Phil. I made Big Phil's Wall for Sky News Did really well. So he goes away straight away back to the room. Google's Big Phil's I'm their best mate. So, yeah, eventually, like I say, they swallow the whole lot.
Speaker 2:The hook line of Sinka tell us not to come back to Poland for a bit, disappear. We're put back in our car, go back to the hotel and that night in the hotel actually and the guys will know who I'm talking about if they're watching this. But there's a whole troop of guys, alright, and they've obviously been told don't talk to Camfield, because someone comes out and sees me. He's gone back. He must have told someone. Someone comes out, has a look. Yeah, definitely he must have gone back and said no one says a word to that fucker right as they walk out and he'll know where it is, this bloke right as they walk out of this boozer. It's like one of these cellar boozers like that you go into in Poland, lovely place on a square with all that pizza. They paid for their bills individually, so I know they're scoffing because nobody's picked this tower. Everybody's like arguing, so literally. There's about 40 blokes in there. They've all paid for their as a quick check to make sure everyone's gone and goes nice one.
Speaker 1:Phil Walks out top geezer mate, they see the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Total rule breaker. Nice one love it.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's some proper stories that are going to come out in Ukraine in the next few years There'll be a book or five.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course there will be. I'm already trying to pen mine.
Speaker 1:I think between us we've got some properly good things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet you have. But you know there's loads of guys going in there doing all sorts of really cool stuff like that. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it this year, but I do want to do another aid run. I want to go and take some stuff over there and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:So I've not given up on it completely, but I so yeah who.
Speaker 2:Dares Wins. I wrote who Dares Wins? Who Dares Wins? Originally was going to be a book about Sierra Leone, about Operation Barracks, and I thought, look, with all the stuff that's out there, I'm not letting any secrets go, I'm just sticking my name on it, giving my account of things and of course, as you know, anyone who's been in a firefight, every man Jack, will have a different account. I didn't tell Mike out, mike out. I was going to stick that out there. Obviously, the MOD stepped in. No, you're not doing that, but I had a book deal out.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and I've already had my advance and I'm playing to myself. I'm not handing you my advance back. You know what I mean. I'm going to have to. You know, if I can't polish this turd, I'm going to have to be fair in born fearless. I've never mentioned any of the child abuse or anything like that.
Speaker 2:So we went down slightly that we went down the mental health road with it, um, and tried to sort of highlight where doesn't matter who you are, you know mental health needs to be taken seriously, needs to be talked about and actually if I'd have identified my mental health a lot earlier in my, in my career, probably my life, yeah, then things may have panned out differently for me. Do you know what I mean? But they didn't. But you know, I recognise that. Now I've learnt from that and if I can pass it on to young people coming through you know, or heighten awareness so that you know people in places that matter now can understand it, embrace it and, moreover, help out, do something about it, then it was worth it. So, yeah, that that was where who dares wins came from.
Speaker 3:It's funny, isn't it? Because with mental health, until you've gone through it and got that help from people that I've spoke to, um, you know, you don't realize how good that help is until you've gone through it and got it. So, like you know, a message to anyone out there really is, you know, if they're.
Speaker 2:Talk about it. It's my message. I mean, I've never had professional help with it.
Speaker 1:But you know, Don't lock it up, I just recognise.
Speaker 2:You know, in times like when I sat in Winchester, you know, other times since I've had to grip myself and I've had to. Basically, you know Wendy's heard it a lot. I mean, I've had someone to talk to about it and I think it really is a problem shared, as a problem halved especially with mental health.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? You've got to get it out there, because if you don't, I always refer to it being like the bottle of the bottle of coke. You know, you shove a packet of Mentos in it, that lid comes off and if you're not ready for it, it's a mess yeah, good advice, mate.
Speaker 1:It's good advice. I mean just trying to lighten up, but you're a Pepsi or a Coke man yeah, so yeah, mental health, massively serious about it, massively advocate it.
Speaker 2:You know it's alright having a world mental health awareness day, but for some people it's world mental health awareness life. Do you know what I mean? You live with that for the rest of your life. You've got to talk, haven't you A lot of the?
Speaker 1:guys are talking now. Thankfully it's not as taboo as it is.
Speaker 2:I see it a lot more in the commando brigade than I do. They seem to be a step ahead of everybody else. For some reason, with mental health at the moment, I've lost a couple of key figures for mental health. I don't think I'm speaking out of term when I say that, and I think people will understand. It's being talked about, it's being taken seriously now. It's not taboo. It's not in the days when I sat in the infant rest room and the psych major walked in and went yeah, do you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean, it's not those days anymore do you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:If you have got a problem, stick your hand up and you will be seen. And I subsequently found out that quite a few people had been behind the scenes to sort out their mental health, even when I was here, but they never told anybody. It was never talked about. But I did realise. You know, there was one particular incident that I really struggled with and it was one of the lads was killed in an RTA and I really, really struggled with that. I massively struggled with it. I hit the B on the night it happened and I really struggled with that, and people nowadays would recognise Phil's having an absolute mare with this. Yeah, do you know what I mean? But in the day it was like sort yourself out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:What's the matter with you? Do you know what I mean? Anybody, and that really hurt me. And I'm not going to say the soldier's name, but people know. People who were in the squadron at that time know who I'm referring to from the rta. But was it kenya? It was around. No, it wasn't the kenya one, it was a. It was people who were on a certain course doing a thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that rta, that kenya one. Yeah, the kenya one again, so I can get my head around.
Speaker 2:I can genuinely get my head around people being killed in combat, because that is that's more or less what you've signed up to. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a almost a probability in some cases. You know, I mean when you look at the job, so I can get my head around that a lot easier than what I can get my head around a blatant accident which was caused by somebody who shouldn't have been doing what they were doing. You know, I mean, and that's that really blows my mind, because that is such a waste. Do you know what I mean? That is such an absolute waste.
Speaker 3:One of the guys in that RTA, like you say, we won't mention names was X7. So when we were out there I had a plaque made by you know, the Kenyan guys. They make these. We had a wooden plaque made and didn't put names or anything on there just put you know in remembrance to you know, members of blah blah, blah.
Speaker 3:Oh Pete, the law was saying that wasn't it Up there. Yeah, we got a vehicle off the MTO Freepower. He was reluctant to give it to us because he thought we were going on the piss. We did ask him, obviously. We found a five-star lodge just down the road from it. So, yeah, yeah, we went and paid our respects to the guy that served in seven, but also the other guys yeah see people don't realize as well.
Speaker 2:So you know, operational barriers cost free lives yeah because they were on their way back for a briefing. Do you know what I mean? That was, you know that was. I always look at that and say three people lost their lives unfortunately in. Three people lost their lives, unfortunately in that incident I mean, but the two of them was tragic, it wasn't their fault, it wasn't anyone's fault. It was driving. It was an oil slick from a canyon, who'd spilt his wagon and there was oil all over the road. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I broke my hand. I've got a photograph of it somewhere. I broke my hand because we went out for a drink that night. Obviously while we were waiting for everyone to come back and I had quite a few, and some Kenyan started briefing me up about how the British were crazy drivers and all that sort of stuff and I went to punch him and one of the lads clipped my arm, sort of blocked my arm from punching him, but he drove it into the wall and I broke my hand. So when I went on up for hours I had a broken hand and I remember I think it was the CO said are you going to be alright with that? And I was like, can you get this minimi off me?
Speaker 1:I'm going yeah. I was on the other end of that op. Yeah, I was involved from somewhere else, like doing bits, but yeah, because obviously Dot was one of our guys. He was injured on the in the wagon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, horrible, really horrible. We sat there back at camp. Everyone got a knock at stupid o'clock in the morning and you know it's not. You know it's not somebody late off the pitch. You know it's serious stuff when you get knocked out of bed, especially when you've just been asked to come back into camp from adventure training. And adventure training was like rock and roll shit in those days. You know what I mean. So it was well, it was troop training, wasn't it? But anyway, we came back and all of a sudden you're being told oh, this has happened, and at first we didn't even know the names. So you know, there's a whole troop involved. You don't know who you know, and it's a horrible position to page one.
Speaker 1:Did your page go off? No, I wasn't on a page. I was in Kenya, so we didn't have pages.
Speaker 2:We were just literally. We were called back, but you did a comms skit every day, didn't you? Yeah, you literally did the comms skit and were told right, get yourself back ASAP yeah didn't know why, got back. We're told you know, things are developing in West Africa. Yeah, and then we I think we didn't even think about for a stage what was happening in West Africa. I couldn't give a shit. No, we literally flew back to Hereford. I flew back with the bodies actually on a BA flight.
Speaker 1:On a BA flight I flew them back and yeah, it's just a free flight, isn't it Free time? Yeah. Horrendous, but yeah that was um to where, right now, you've been doing a lot of good stuff with the cadets yeah, so I?
Speaker 2:I actually I was talking to that name, drum, and I was talking to bear grills about his role with youth, and I just thought, look, I've done a lot of stuff with veterans, but I felt I had more to give and I felt that the veteran stuff could always end up negative in some way or shape or form and almost could consume. You know, I mean, that doesn't mean I don't do stuff for veterans now, but I realised that I had a lot of energy, good energy, positive energy that I wanted to put somewhere and realising that, you know, without the start that the army gave me, I wouldn't have achieved anything in my life at all. You know what I mean. All right, it's a roller coaster, as it was, but I wouldn't have even been on the roller coaster. So I thought I'll try and emulate someone like I knew Bear Grylls was like the head boy scout, whatever they called him. So I spoke to Bear and I said look, you do that. I'd like to get involved in a youth organisation. He said well, look, as far as I know, he said the army cadets don't have anyone like that.
Speaker 2:So I found out who the right person was, approached them, went for a meeting in Aldershot in Land HQ, and they decided, yeah, they'll make a roll-up for me. All sorts of things were suggested honorary colonels, all that. I've never wanted any rank out of it or anything like that. I want to be able to visit people and not have people stood to attention. So they came up with this thing Champion of the Army, cadets Force, and that's what I was. I was there. They gave you five years to do your thing. They then brought on other ambassadors who did a similar sort of thing. Yeah, it was good, and I got to visit loads of young people. Speak to them about my experiences. Speak to them about resilience. Speak to them about this, that and the other and resilience. Speak to them about this, that and the other.
Speaker 2:And the army isn't about recruiting people into the army by any stretch of the imagination. It's more about giving people an opportunity outside of school to find their place on the planet. Do you know what I mean? Things like the Duke of Edinburgh's award scheme, things like first aid schools, giving them skills. School teaches you a curriculum.
Speaker 2:I have a real beef with school, by the way. Do you know what I mean? School has a curriculum. It teaches that. Outside of that you don't get nothing. But if I'm looking at a young person and they have an outside activity say it would be football, rugby, dancing, drama, whatever it is they're going there by their own choice, they want to be there and so therefore, you know, that's worth something cadets and scouts and all that sort of stuff they want to achieve in their own time when they could be sat on their playstations or doing other things. So that turns out an individual who's got a lot better chance at life than somebody, perhaps, who just dosses about in a bus stop, you know, kicking cans down the road and being a menace you learn life skills as well.
Speaker 1:did you learn that? Yeah, I you for that, yeah great thing.
Speaker 2:It's a great thing to do, and you're right life skills, life skills. The hemorrhage is life skills.
Speaker 1:I mean it's throwing life skills at you. Just a little thing. I mean, I joined the cadets. I was only in there for six months, so I got kicked out. There's a pattern there isn't there. There is a pattern, but anyway, he uh, but no, I really enjoyed it, but one of the things when you used to go on your little annual camp or whatever. Yeah, um they always used to do one at Easter and it was played Gip in uh was the, just like the layers.
Speaker 1:Just teach you about layers. You get the guy that would get into his sleeping bag and he'd have 63 thermals on his softy jacket, you know. Then he's into a sleeping bag, then he's into his vortex, yeah. And then he wakes up in shit state and I remember this guy came over his elcock. Um, he said, just put t-shirt and your undercrackers or whatever, get him in there. I mean, he might have been a bit of a fit but but, but it, it was amazing. So I woke up in the morning you're a bit nippy you put your softy straight on and I was like, oh yeah, great.
Speaker 1:Then when I joined the military, you're a bit nippy you put your softies straight on and I was like, oh yeah, great. And then when I joined the military, you had the same people making that same mistake and they weren't getting taught. I was like this should be like a day, one week, one thing about your layers. They weren't getting taught. And on that first exercise I remember waking up and seeing people just getting that. One night I did the layering thing. I was like, oh my god, this is great. And that was all going back to the cadets and just some of those little things they taught me how to polish my boots, how to lace myself up simple things.
Speaker 2:It's all good stuff and even if you don't end up in the military, those skills of administrating yourself or looking after other people or looking out for other people, all the teamwork stuff you do are all means you can stand toe to toe with the powers in the Marines. It does absolutely. Not sure about the RAF.
Speaker 1:Reds. They're five miles or a death.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting there.
Speaker 3:You always get that one. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:At what stage do you become a veteran? I do know of an individual who literally joined the Army for less than a week but now calls himself where's a veteran's?
Speaker 1:pick. They're allowed to, aren't they? You're allowed to, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think there should be a. You've got to, you've got to do again. I mean why you can't? I mean, I suppose technically you're a veteran, but what have you done? You know that first week all you've done is look actually your bed space yeah, what's next, then um next then, obviously, the radio station stuff that I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Hopefully you know that's getting there after three years of extremely hard work. What's that called Force Radio? Our YouTube channel is now growing really well, so that's doing well. That takes up a lot of my time. My brand repping for Pulse gyms, so you know, do a lot of stuff with them.
Speaker 1:Putting us to shame. Every time I turn on Instagram, you're there banging out weights. Well, I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't seem to be losing that. But you know, in terms of progress I've gone from. I've deadlifted 220 kilos yesterday, 225 kilos yesterday and I bench press 160 to 180 off my, I just want to.
Speaker 2:I just want to. It's not even a journey about, you know, showing off. It's just maintaining or trying to do something with what I've got, because 75% of people who go into old people's homes is because they can't get themselves off the car. See, and I don't want to be that person, I'll stick an extra 10 kilos on when I think about that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I had a friend of mine, actually, and I am trying to get the weight off this time because I do it, everyone knows. You know, big Phil gets himself down the weight for a fight and then, you know, can't get out of the ring without doing two bottles of champagne and a couple of donuts, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And then it's on that. You know what I mean. It's the weight. So I'm trying to get in his day. You know Fort Joe Bugner, world Titles, all that sort of stuff. He said to me that he's got old people's arms now and he's got 500 beds and he's had them for about 20 years. He said in all that time he's never come across anybody older than 65 who weighed more than 20 stone. He said so you're in the bracket to die pretty soon, sir.
Speaker 1:And I'm like wow, so I'm like I sort of weight.
Speaker 2:I'm still over 20, I'm about 22. Where do you think you'll get to? I hope to get down. I want to get down to jump weight again because I've said to the red threads you know, let me do some stuff with you. You know I'm doing stuff with P company. I want to go around all these various places and yeah, so if I can get under a canopy or someone's willing to jump me as soon as I get this weight off, I'm there, I'll do it. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:why don't? We have a little you get the weight off and I'll screw away your jumping paper next year okay, and.
Speaker 2:Martin will come along, but you'll have to do it in a wheelchair yeah wouldn't that be fucking great, I I'll do the getting the weight bit off, which is my sort of like.
Speaker 3:That's what I want to do I can get.
Speaker 2:I can get a lot of people if I showed you and I won't show you, but if I showed you the messages I get from people my age or from people who've been injured or from people who join in with this journey with me, it's absolutely humbling and it keeps me going. I think to myself I get some really nice messages from people going. Phil, I was on the sofa and I just realised what you said resonated with me the other day and I'm now doing this and I'm doing and I think to myself yeah go on.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:That is totally true, because I was on the sofa the other night eating some poppets and I turned on Instagram. Amazing, when you go on and you see your contemporaries, your friends, you see them online doing stuff rather than influencing, necessarily, but someone that you can actually relate to. You see them doing it. You think, fucking hell, I need to be out here doing all that, but young people as well.
Speaker 2:So the stuff that I do for the military preparation training colleges. I've had unteen messages from young people over the last five or six years, doing the cadet stuff as well, saying cheers Phil never thought about it and people now they know me. Now I never put their pictures on Facebook, I never gained anything, but you know I've got all these messages. Probably I would say over the last five or six years I've tracked three to four hundred people into the military.
Speaker 3:They do a committal card now. It's a shame you can't.
Speaker 2:I'm not interested. Yeah, phil missed the bat again, but I'm not interested in that. What makes me extremely happy and proud is that I go to these various passing out parades at Harrogate and there's people there that come up to me on the side and go.
Speaker 2:Cheers, Phil. I had a really nice message from a lad who his old man has sent me. I'm saying my son's a bit of a nutter, he's doing this out and the other, but I think he'd be suited to the military. Can you send him a message? And this was about three or four years ago. So I sent this message. Come on, son, I've been there. Yeah, it's all right Having a laugh and a joke. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Just did him a quick video message. Why don't you join the on his shoulder as well? While he was there? Ds loved him and I'm like he sent me a really nice message going I wouldn't be here for one for you that message.
Speaker 2:That's great and for me that's more than any currency, any wage, any all-back can bring me, because that is what I've brought to the party. Yeah, you know, I've helped influence other people, and whether influence one, that's enough for me. If I can mention influence a thousand, that's even better. But the fact that I've managed to influence someone to do something and I've improved their life to me makes me feel really happy, like I mean it's always nice to get that feedback as well.
Speaker 2:When it drops in, you're like yeah but you know, if I didn't get the feedback, you know, it doesn't mean that I'd stop doing it. No, I'll keep doing it because I know deep down that people do and are interested in what I say and do and it does affect the way people behave and can change their life. For them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:I actually had someone that I have on. There's only one person there who said to me ex-Blade, a lot older than me, said I don really like what you do, phil, it goes against the ethos. And he shook my hand but he left and I was talking to Matt about it. I said I'll tell you what, matt, I'm going to go and tell him all the stuff that's a byproduct of this, all the positive stuff, and actually the only person that's ever taken any risk is me, because I'm the one who has potentially said yes, I was a member of that unit. I'm the one who can be booked by going for my agent and I'm the one who, if you look on my instagram page, could get me to go somewhere or find out where I am, and you can come and blow me up. Do you know what I mean? So I'm the one who's taking all the risk. I've never compromised anybody else, but when you for me, it's worth it for the story alone of just that one person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not, there's hundreds of them. So, yeah, I just wanted to tell him that. So if you are watching and you probably do watch, because if you don't like me, you watch everything I do? I know that if you are watching, that's a message for you. I nearly I looked for you, but you'd gone by the time I walked off. You was outside of what was that bar that we was at was this in Arnhem?
Speaker 2:yeah it was in Arnhem the bar the big paratro Because that was on the univile. You spoke to me, it was just someone else and you disappeared. But you shook my hand, but you said you didn't like me and I thought you don't like me. But I'm going to just tell you a little bit more about me before you cast your aspersions.
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully he's watching this. I'm sure he is with the millions of others If he ain't someone's going to tell him that yeah exactly. I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's probably a part of the show where we've got to do the what three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we end. Actually I've got another question as well Reference service leavers, people going through transition, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Military transition, that is, we can say that now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what advice would you give someone that's coming? You know thinking about leaving the military or coming to the end of their. You know thinking about leaving the military or coming to the end of their you know career, Treat it as another opportunity to achieve great things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because it is the end of something great that you've done, but it's not the end of your life. And if you approach Sydney Street in the right manner and embrace Sydney Street, a lot of people are very sort of standoffish Sydney this, Sydney that, Sydney, the other. That's fine for a bit of banter, but actually you do need these people. They will help steer you. Wendy is a civvy through and through and she's helped steer me through my civvy life. I couldn't fill a foreman. I couldn't do that. Your rehabilitation should start the day you join. In my opinion, you should start crossing the bridge. You do it because I want them to integrate and realise that there are cities out there who are similar-minded, who want to achieve. They might not want to achieve militarily, but they want to achieve in life.
Speaker 2:And I think all too often we concentrate on the bad stories, on this, that and the other, but there's a lot of very successful ex-serving people, former serving people who do extremely well and they cut around this planet without praise and without saying anything and and under the radar, and I think young people need to realize that that is another opportunity to do some really cool stuff. So embrace it, embrace everything that comes with it right, yeah, great, um.
Speaker 3:And then finally the um question about the grab bag. So the three items that you've got to have in your grab bag, what would they be?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, probably nowadays. What a nowadays grab bag.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a grab bag, so you need an iPhone and a method of charging it in there you know what I mean, or you need something.
Speaker 2:You need a communication tool, shall we say. In there I always carry a torch. I've always got a torch which can be operated with my thumb okay, and that for a number of reasons it turns into a kubaton, then it, so you can use it in a bit of self-defense. If I shine that in your eye, I can hit you with that, I mean. So it's a great self-defense thing, and I always used to have in my grab sack a flexible ballistic plate okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, because it was something that, at very worst, if it went wrong somewhere, you know, grab sack in the true sense of the word. You know what do they call it nowadays?
Speaker 1:Go bag or.
Speaker 2:Yeah whatever you know, I could stick this on and run down the road in the knowing that my vitals were covered a little bit do you know what I mean. So yeah, go on, that'll be my free. I expect there's all sorts of other Gucci stuff, and my bag certainly has got loads of kit in it, but yeah, and, and all that stuff, by the way, can go on a plane yeah so yeah, you need something.
Speaker 2:You know it's no good saying, oh, I'll take my commando dagger and nah mate you're not getting on a plane. With that ain't I mean you know, I don't want to make me wolf a pee pee. No, no, mate.
Speaker 1:No, you're not but you get it across the channel though, because no one's talking right, so I did another video, I did another video, I did another video where I took a lot of stuff over the channel, shall we say that.
Speaker 2:And the reason I haven't aired it is because it might compromise me and I might get in trouble for it. But I blatantly drove through border after border after border with, shall we say, a piece on the dashboard of my car yeah unbelievable hypoth with shall we say a piece on the dashboard of my car. Yeah, Unbelievable Hypothetically, but they knew you were.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course they knew they do in Poland.
Speaker 2:They're like he had his press plates on that's good, yeah, and I also did a thing where I carried some stuff onto a plane which was all lethal, but in hindsight, to air it would be teaching people how to do this stuff. So I didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's double its fault. That's why. I didn't but you know, yeah, but it does highlight how bad. And if you think about it.
Speaker 2:They used to do an exercise on selection where you made improvised weapons and you can look at and people joke about this, and they did it on Ladbible too. You know what would you do? How would you kill us? You know what I mean. I said, well, you know how quickly could you kill us? I said, well, a fairly decent sized grenade, you'll all be gone in a puff of smoke. I said, but if I'm down to the sharpened pencil, it's going to get messy and take a bit longer. You know what I mean. Everything can be utilised in such a way that it becomes a weapon. And so if you look at, aspect that, what you packed it as, then you put your fucking stuff in the kit and get away.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm going to say. Yeah, no, that's totally true. We, uh, a couple years ago, martin and I decided, and a couple others, it'd be a good idea to row across the channel. So we got in a little boat and pulled road to Cherbourg and then sort of relayed it and then rode back. I mean it disgusting sort of couple of days in my life. It's a tougher van but we didn't get stopped one house, you know we could have filled this photo with anything either side no passport control no and well, I think, everyone's got a view on immigration but um, and the problem being the borders.
Speaker 2:But we'll leave that I have no problems. I have no problems with people who genuinely need sanctuary coming to this country and getting that sanctuary. But you know a lot of these people don't that's how I leave that.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:a lot of people don't, and it's wrong, and they're just taking advantage of a system which is already quaking and breaking. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, and almost being encouraged by some cause to do it. It's like why would you do that? You know, sit here and we could. We could do.
Speaker 1:I mean we started that conversation with Ben Garwood the other day. I think we got a 20 minute monologue about that, so we'll leave it there. I think I've really enjoyed having a chat.
Speaker 2:We've always today, phil, we always set the world to rights there's so much more we could discuss did you really get a chance to sit down at Arnhem did? We could discuss. Did you really get a chance to sit down at Arnhem? Did Bruce, because it wasn't really about that.
Speaker 1:Well, you basically stood up or you passed out.
Speaker 2:It was one or the other yeah, it was good but okay.
Speaker 1:So I think really enjoyed that episode. Put the world to rights. We've got a date in the diary for all of us jumping next year so make that happen, see if we can get Bruce on it, but retired from jumping now, since he he might well have done.
Speaker 2:He might well have done, because he did quite banjo himself last time, didn't he?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think his daughter would let him. If he went up for himself, I don't think his daughter would stand in the door and kick him back in again, exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, we won't tell her. But okay, won't tell our wife. Your needs will be fixed by then we'll in good order well, so where can people find you?
Speaker 2:normal places. Everything's at bigphilcampion yeah. Instagram TikTok. Although TikTok's philcampion01 I can't get verified on there. They won't believe I am philcampion. It's insane really. Tiktok, if you're watching, you're absolutely stitching me up like a good. There's about six other philcampions as well, who all take pictures off of my stuff and put it on theirs. You could be the real or the fake. Yeah, who's the real? Slim Shady? I don't know, it's that radio and then obviously anything to do with Force Radio or Force Radio HQ is our Instagram handles.
Speaker 1:We'll put that in the bio and the write up and the video and massive thanks for coming down to the end of the talk and massive thanks for coming down today and talking to us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I've enjoyed it. Thanks, phil, awesome, always Thanks Cool.
Speaker 1:Well, there we have it. That's Big Phil Campion returning guest, and he's told us so much more. We always love speaking to Phil Martin and I bump into him a lot when we're out and about at various functions and he's always got a good dick to spin and you know you heard a few more of those today, as in Stitches. He's a funny guy and, you know, actually got a real heart. You heard him talking about mental health and it's very important that if you are struggling with anything that you just get that off your chest. You know, in some way speak to someone regimental charity friend, whoever it may be talking, does help. Now, if you want to catch up with what Phil's up to, head over to social media, you'll find him on Big Phil Campion on all the usual channels.
Speaker 1:As he sort of said in the podcast, we've got some great new episodes coming up weekly and we're releasing a few of the older ones too that we haven't quite got around to yet, so we're going to re-edit them. One thing we do ask if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts, if you get to the end of it, just pop to the bottom of the app. You can do a little rating. Click on the star rating button there and just leave a little review. It does really help with everything we're up to and if you're on Spotify, just leave a little comment at the end of the episode if you liked it or what you didn't like, if you want to ask a question for our future guests, but also on instagram, youtube, all the other channels and other man's shoes. But for us that's the end of another episode and, uh, look forward to seeing you again.