William Garrido: Daycares and Dog Parks

William Garrido has been working with dogs since 2009. He entered the field through a working-dog training school, where he studied obedience, protection work, tracking, scent detection, and handling. After six months in this intensive environment, William went on to work with police dogs and personal protection dogs, and later deployed to Afghanistan as a contractor, serving as a trainer for Contract Working Dog teams in Bagram and Shindand.

Committed to continued learning, William furthered his education through advanced training programs and numerous professional seminars.

Throughout his career, William has authored several books, worked extensively with pet dogs, supported service dogs for veterans with PTSD and TBI, served as head instructor for a dog training school, and participated in protection sports. Today, he remains a respected and knowledgeable resource for pet owners, professional dog trainers, and dog sport enthusiasts alike.

William and I had a lively and nuanced discussion about why, in many cases, no socialization can be better than poor socialization—particularly when it comes to dogs attending daycare or visiting dog parks. We both agree that there are intentional, thoughtful ways to socialize dogs, as well as many effective options for enrichment and exercise that don’t involve daycares or dog parks at all. Every dog is an individual, and the key is finding the approach that best supports your dog’s unique temperament, needs, and well-being. 

Transcript

Leah Lykos: 0:04

Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Somatic Hound Podcast. Today I have William. I forgot to ask you how to say your last name. Is it Garrido?

William Garrido: 0:14

Yes.

Leah Lykos: 0:15

And William, I met on Instagram. That's how I find most of my podcast guests, honestly. Oh, yeah. Also, your podcast. And both of those are dog training is my passion.

William Garrido: 0:30

Correct.

Leah Lykos: 0:31

I've been following you for a while and just felt like, you know, we had some similar reviews. Obviously, nobody's going to agree a hundred percent on everything, but we had enough in common that I felt like could bring you on the podcast and have a little chat. So, do you want to give your background for people who might not know you?

William Garrido: 0:51

Sure. Um, thank you for having me. I've also been following you for some time. Uh, my uh background a little bit just in a nutshell, I've been working dogs for the past 16 years, and the bulk of my experience is with working dogs. So I started training police dogs, then I did some contract working dog in Afghanistan. Um, then I also did a lot of pet dog training. I did a continued education on various areas of dog training from again from the working dog aspect to uh operating condition, learning theory. And I currently work with pet clients. I have a dog training business, and I have a uh protection club uh run through PSA, so it's Protection Sports Association. So I'm very active in that as well. And that's pretty much it. And like you said, you know, just like you, I have a podcast, I have uh uh Instagram channel, YouTube, and and here I am.

Leah Lykos: 1:54

Cool. Yeah, I think um one of the podcast episodes that you did where I really clicked with your point of view was you were telling people to walk with a walking stick in order to protect from off leash, loose, or stray dogs. And I was also telling people that, but like getting a rash of SHIT for it. And it's like, well, what what else are we supposed to do? These dogs are accosting us, and at the time, the real problem was I had adopted a dog who was extremely dog aggressive, and I was afraid that she was gonna f up one of these loose dogs that could be just some neighbor's pet dog. So I actually started carrying a stick to protect the friendly dogs from my dog, but it's a great idea.

William Garrido: 2:51

Honestly, I can see why you were getting uh pushback on that. You know, a lot of people just latch onto the worst aspect of your message, and they don't see that 90% of your message was good. They latch on the 10% of what does that mean you're gonna hit another dog? But the aspect of your message and my message on that topic is we're actually preventing the worst case scenario. I'd rather hit a dog with a stick than it be punctured or it puncturing my dog or puncturing me in the process. You know, so when you compare the possibilities, very likely you're not even gonna have to hit the dog. But even if you do have to hit the dog, even if that's the worst case scenario, I'll take if it was me and you told me, hey, um, you want to get stabbed or you want to get hit with a stick, I'll be like, please just hit me with a stick. And so that's where, you know, that's where a lot of times your audience, or you know, just maybe not your audience, just people in general, will will do that, you know. And I've I've been you know, I've been on social media for a long time. I've been posting videos for a long time. I've had my share of oh, you you shouldn't be saying that. I've had my share of people trying to cancel me for something like that. And so it's just kind of human nature, but I a hundred percent agree with you. Obviously, this is why we resonate on a lot of the topics that we, you know, that we um that we put out there is because, you know, like you said earlier, yeah, we might not agree on a hundred percent, and nobody really does, but we have enough things in common, like this topic, that we can go, this makes sense to you, and it makes sense to me.

Leah Lykos: 4:54

Exactly, yeah. So the topic that we want to talk about today is actually something you touched on in one of your videos. I think you made a reel about it, about commercial doggy daycares, which uh can be a very touchy subject. And I know some daycare owners who do a good job with their daycares, but I also know a lot of daycares where dogs have gotten really badly injured from being in fights or sadly killed, or even honestly, just bullied, and now the dog is reactive or scared or insecure. Like I have a lot of clients come to me with dog reactive dogs, and the backstory is always oh, she was fine until she got attacked at the daycare, the dog park, and I'm like, oh, that's too bad, because this dog was like fine genetically, did not have any predisposition towards dog aggression, but got really badly attacked.

William Garrido: 6:02

The common story, you know, um what you just said, that's exactly what I hear also. You know, I've had clients where the the story was the same. It was somewhere along the lines of he used to be great. But this one time he just started not liking dogs. And when you dig a little bit, and a lot of times they're pretty forward about it, they'll tell you, well, you know, it's because one time we went to the daycare. And like you, you know, I also know people that run it professionally, that run it um, maybe not professionally, it's not the word, but run it responsibly. That's I think that's a better word. And the people that run it responsibly, that I know run it responsibly are dog trainers. That's been my experience. They're people that they understand the micro expressions, you know, they can see it, like I said in that video, in that reel, they can see it, they can see a fight brewing way before it happens. Because, you know, as dog trainers, we know, you know, I know you probably want to do everything in your power to prevent a fight. So because you don't want to be getting in the middle of a fight, you're gonna be much more proactive and you're gonna be scanning for these little micro expressions. And you're going to have like this this little uh plan in your head, you know, where you're like, I'd rather err on the side of caution by stepping in and interrupting than just you know play referee and just wait and start spraying or whatever it is that that people do. So that's been my experience. You know, I've done play groups. I've also um I also know people that do it responsibly. I myself, you know, I I've had a lot, I've some of my older videos on YouTube uh from like over 10 years ago. I have uh a couple of clips where in my living room I have like six dogs just walking around, you know, in my living room. And in tag dogs, dogs with some, you know, with some previous uh reactivity, and everybody's calm because I'm just scanning, I'm looking at the microexpressions, I'm interrupting, uh I'm redirecting their attention because you know, a lot of times, like you said, it's it's just one experience. The dog gets bullied. Uh even if the dog doesn't get bullied, even if the dog does the bullying, now that also becomes an experience to that dog.

Leah Lykos: 8:41

So yeah, exactly. I used to do a little bit of daycare at my home. I don't have like a kennel facility, but I have a fenced yard and I would turn my garage into like a little kennel area so they could come in and out of the heat or the cold or the rain or whatever. But I kind of burned my dogs out, I think, a little bit of having to constantly interact with strange dogs, and they were getting really stressed out. I don't think it's actually natural to dogs as they get older to constantly be exposed to and expected to always get along with different dogs, with dogs they don't know who are not part of their group or you know, their in-group. I think it's really good if you can get a little group of dogs together that do get along, and then they stay together for some months or years, and that's their known group. And I know some dog daycares that do that, they take like a really small number of dogs, and so they're not constantly rotating in. Like, I mean, some of these places take hundreds of dogs a day.

William Garrido: 9:51

It's a business model, you know. The more, the more people you get to sign up into your daycare, the more profitable the business becomes. But, you know, Leah, you said something really interesting, which I really liked. You know, you indicated that you recognized that your dogs were getting fatigued by this constant exposure to other dogs. And that's just a testament to your ability to read your dogs and your relationship with your dogs. And a lot of people don't do that, a lot of dog trainers don't do that. So you had enough sense and care for your dogs and such a good relationship with your dogs that you advocated for your dogs way before you saw a fight. You know? So when I hear that, I think that's uh that's amazing. It's just it's it's something that I you know that I always admire about dog owners that do that. Trainers also, because a lot of dog owners don't do that, a lot of dog trainers don't do that, they just kind of keep pushing their dogs. But it's uh a dog owner and a trainer that that goes, you know what? Even though I'm not seeing the worst case scenario, I can see where this is going. And because I care about my dogs, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a different decision. Um, so um it's great when when you said that, I was like, that's amazing. Obviously, I can tell Leah is an awesome dog trainer, awesome dog owner. You really care about your dogs. Uh, because that shows that you know you do care. You're not just saying that you care, you actually do. Um, so great job on that.

Leah Lykos: 11:35

Oh, thanks. Yeah, I think I think more people would step in or advocate for their dogs if they could see the signs of the stress and the sort of like social fatigue of the dog not really wanting to play as much as they used to, or kind of going into avoidance, or being more defensive when they play, or disengaging more often when they play, trying to find places to hide and get away from the other dogs. So maybe we should talk about some of the body language or some of the signs that like maybe the this dog isn't a social butterfly and doesn't really need to be in a daycare setting.

William Garrido: 12:19

No, definitely. Um, you know, to me, um I know there's this stigma of which I understand of not comparing dog behavior to human behavior because you know with different species, we behave different. Or uh, you know, or the way we rationalize and process information is very different. So I understand the problem with comparing, you know, human behavior to dog behavior. I completely I'm on board with that. But there are times where you see a lot of parallels, and there are times where I think the parallels are undeniable. And to me, one good uh analogy or or parallel that I can make to human behavior in this particular topic is you know, I like people as much as the next guy, you know. Uh you could say I'm a social person, but if I was forced into a social setting for the sake of will, you just need to be social. And I was pushed into a social setting where I get to be with people that are very extroverted, over a period of time I'd probably get a little bit tired of it. And so you will probably see some avoidance behaviors in me also, you know, and just being humans, you'd be able to tell, you know, my body language would indicate I'm kind of aiming towards the door. You know, my my foot's aiming towards the door, my shoulder is kind of turned away. Uh, somebody talks to me, I would try to, you know, end the conversation quickly and just act like I'm busy, you know, checking my watch, checking my phone. And so if I make that parallel to dog behavior, I can I can compare that. And I can go, well, a dog doesn't have a phone, right, or a watch, but what are they gonna do? They're gonna start sniffing the ground. They're going to um, they're going to aim their body towards a different location, right? So there are some parallels there that I believe are worthy of note, which is that right there. Yes, we can compare human behavior to dog behavior, but we can draw some parallels there and go, this dog is showing avoidance. I don't even need to be a uh a dog training expert. You know, I don't need to be a body language expert. I just look at what I would do, and then I look at some of the things that my dog might be doing, and then I could draw the conclusion that my dog probably doesn't want to spend all this time with these very playful, happy, extroverted dogs. So I think if we do that, then we're in a better position to go, you know what? I think maybe my dog probably just needs a break from that.

Leah Lykos: 15:20

Yeah, and I've known people who have had dogs that like went to daycare until they were probably about, I don't know what the average age is, but in a couple of cases, the dog turned like seven or eight years old and then all of a sudden just did not do well at daycare anymore. They just reached that age where they were like not interested in playing with the other dogs, it became very stressful for them, and they just kind of like aged out. They were like, I'm over it, I don't need this anymore. So I guess what I what I want to talk about is why do people bring their dogs to dog parks and daycares? Is it because they are afraid if they don't socialize the dog that it will become aggressive?

William Garrido: 16:08

I think in my experience, and you know, we all have our different perspectives. You know, I'm sure you have yours, and I have a feeling that your perspective and mine are probably very similar. So from my perspective, there's uh there are a couple of things. One of it is obviously misinformation, you know, and the the problem of misinformation is not that you don't know. I believe the problem with misinformation is that you don't know enough. So for instance, if you want to bake something, you know, like a cake, right? And I only give you a portion of the recipe, and you're left to figure out the rest, it's not gonna be good. And so part of the misinformation with dog parks and doggy daycares is that half information that is sprinkled on the internet, um, which is you need to socialize your dog. But the thing is, what most people don't know is that's like a fraction of the recipe, you know, as you know. There is there's more complexities to socializing your dog. But what people don't know is they just see that piece of information that they're told from their veterinarians, from their their cousins, you know, the internet, the the YouTube videos where they go, oh, you know, I should socialize my dog. And so to the layman, to the average person, because they don't understand the whole recipe, they they go, I need to socialize my dog. And this is why they'll sign up for these things. They'll sign up for daycare, for dog parks. I have clients that told me that. They're like, oh, yeah, I mean, I should take my dog to the daycare so he can socialize, right? And then I'm like, well, hold on, let me give you the entire recipe first. And then usually they'll go, Oh, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. And so it's not that um that you know, that it's the people don't know. I think it's they just they know enough to get in trouble. And so that's one of the reasons. Another reason that I've noticed from talking to a lot of clients over the years is you know, they feel bad. They want their dogs to do something, you know, and they just don't know. They don't know what that is. So they'll go, my dog needs to have doggy friends, right? Or my dog needs to do something. Because, yes, I mean, if if your dog doesn't really do a whole lot, you live in a pretty urban environment, your schedule is pretty hectic, pretty busy, and you have this dog that is really not doing anything, it's just staying in the house. I understand the desire to have your dog do something. And so I would say that's probably why. It's all great intentions, you know. As you know, nobody goes, I want to ruin my dog. Um, but I think that's probably what it is. It's misinformation. They just know enough to get them in trouble, and they they feel bad and they want to do something, right? I would say from my perspective, that's probably why. I don't know if you have a different uh an additional reason that you have heard over the years, but that's just what's prevalent to me in my mind.

Leah Lykos: 19:21

I totally agree with that. I think a lot of it is projecting our own sort of unmet needs on the dog, and somebody goes to work all day and they feel guilty about leaving the dog alone, and they think, oh, my dog must be lonely, my dog needs friends, my dog needs activities, and I'm not able to provide them. So I will take my dog somewhere where they will be provided with enrichment and stimulation and socialization. Which again, like I do know some daycares and some places. Or even like somebody, I don't like to necessarily promote Rover, but there are people on Rover who run really small in-home daycares. If you can vet that person really well and they only take a few dogs at a time, and you know that dog group is really safe, like that could be a place that's okay to take your dog. So there is a need if you are at work eight, 10, you know, sometimes nurses, doctors, or other professions are away from the house 12 or more hours at a time. So sometimes there is a real need for somebody else to care for your dog. So um, yeah, I think it's all coming from a good intention of people thinking that they're fulfilling the dog's needs. It's just unfortunately, sometimes one bad incident will then shape that dog's reality. And it's difficult to undo that. It takes a long time to undo that. So what are some alternatives?

William Garrido: 21:07

You know, when um when I have clients that that have that concern, uh, I do give them some different options that they can, you know, that they can take. For instance, um, one thing that some people have access to is they have friends who have dogs and they know their dogs, and their friends have a similar concern to them. So one alternative that is much safer, uh, that I've told clients is you know, you have two friends or you know, plus a neighbor or two neighbors, you know their dogs, their dogs know you, they know your dog. Um a safer alternative would be for you guys to get together, you know, once a week, you know, just you know, have lunch, and while you're doing that, just have the dogs interact. But everybody's watching, and at least it's just safer. You know, at least if I have my friend with his dog, I know he knows his dog. And maybe not as good as you know, as I know my dog, but I know if like if John is hanging out with me and his dog is hanging out with my dog, if I see my dog needs a little bit of a break, and maybe John doesn't see it, I can advocate for my dog because I'm there and I can go, hey John, just you know, pull your dog away real quick. I just I think I think uh my dog needs a little bit of a break. Right? Um, and so it's just a safer alternative. If the dogs are safe, of course, if the dogs are friendly, yes, you still have that possibility of you know things getting a little bit uh a little bit out of control. Uh that's that's completely understandable. But at least we all know each other. You know, I know his dog, I know their dog. And we can also even go, you know what, your dog is a little bit too a little bit too intense. Um, let's just kind of keep uh uh Fluffy over here just a little bit more reined in than the other ones, right? But I think that's one safer alternative if you know people and you know their dogs and their dogs are safe. If not, definitely don't do that. Uh another thing that I'll tell my clients is you know, dog walking. Just we're just talking about Rover. Yes, one way to give a dog um sort of a break from the day-to-day, you know, they wake up in the house and they don't really do a whole lot is to hire a dog walker and like you said, vet the dog walker, uh, make sure that this is a safe thing. You know, I'll just basically let the let the client know, you know, if you're unable to have a neighbor, have somebody you know, or hire somebody to just walk your dog a couple of times, however, however many times you can uh you can afford it, however many times would be practical for your schedule. And so I think that's another alternative. Uh another alternative to me is you know, some sort of exercise. You know, some sort of some sort of regimen, some sort of exercise. It could be um, you know, you and your dog go on a hike, you and your dog go, you know, go for a walk. Um another one that I particularly like is a mechanical treadmill. You know, to me, the benefits that your dog and you as a person, just anything with you know, with muscles and bones and joints, right? The more you move and run and sprint, the more benefits your whole body gets. I mean, it's even an antidepressant. And this has actually been also observed in animals. I made a video on this, but there are studies that you know measure the benefits of uh of exercise on animals, like um preventing neuron depletion and just a bunch of other factors. So I would say investment in uh a piece of equipment that can be stowed somewhere in your you know in your house, even if you only have for like five, ten minutes, you can put your dog on that thing for five, ten minutes while you're catching up on your emails or while you're catching up on your attacks. Um, and then you know, then at least your dog is getting a nice bit of exercise. So to me, these are all safe alternatives to bringing your dog to a place where you you literally have no control of what happens there.

Leah Lykos: 25:39

Yeah, that's great. I think all those ideas are really smart, and I do want people to understand that like we do believe dogs need to get outside, get exercise. Like, you can't just let them sit on the couch all day and then not do anything with them. Like you come home from work, you're tired, so the treadmill is a great idea. And then I also teach people um canine resistance training. So even if you take your dog on a short walk, they're dragging weight and you're getting a really intense workout.

William Garrido: 26:15

I'm telling you, that and that's one thing that that I I forgot to mention too, but that is such a wonderful idea. You know, if if you could just do like a, you know, if your schedule just allows for like a quick 10-minute walk, a 10-minute walk with some resistance, like with uh now they have all sorts of uh all sorts of gadgets for that. They have uh, you know, there are weighted vests, there are weighted collars. You probably have heard about that. And like you said, you know, some uh the dog dragging something, that 10-minute walk with some sort of resistance component to it, it makes that 10-minute walk a lot more efficient than just a regular 10-minute walk. So absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Leah Lykos: 26:57

Yeah, so I don't I don't want to overwhelm people and make them think like, oh, you have to run your dog for five miles a day to tire them out instead of going to daycare. Because part of it is that everybody's really busy, people are burnt out with their jobs. Maybe they have kids. I mean, their lives are full, like they don't have time to take this dog for a 10-mile hike every day or whatever. Like if you have a really high, high-energy dog, and maybe part of it is people are getting breeds that they don't realize the need of that dog is actually very high for enrichment, engagement, training, exercise. And it's almost like if I wasn't a dog trainer, I'm like, how would I be taking care of my dogs right now? Because like they need a lot, they they are kind of meaty.

William Garrido: 27:49

I mean, having a dog is a uh having a dog is it's like having a part-time job. You know, I made a I made a video where I said, if you're thinking about getting a dog, don't. I don't know if you saw it. I'll have to send it to you, but but basically list all the reasons as to why you shouldn't get a dog if you're if you're on the fence about getting a dog. Um and so it's just uh I think it's just culturally, we're we're just conditioned to believe that part of part of growing up is you need to have a house with a white picket fence and a dog, you know. And the reality is, as you know, yes, I mean I love my dogs and and they definitely add to my life. And I see the benefits of having a dog. There, there are already studies that show that people that have pets, you know, they live longer, they're healthier. So it's a benefit that I would certainly want everybody to have. But as you know, and as I know, there are people that they just don't have the space. I'm not just talking about the physical space, that they don't have the the mental space, the you know, the schedule to add a dog into their lives. So I feel like, you know, as much as of a dog person that I am, I feel pretty confident in saying that, and this would probably be one of these things that I'd mentioned earlier, you know, 90% of what I'm saying is probably applicable and good, but there's gonna be people are gonna latch on the 10% of what I'm saying and go, that's terrible. But you know, I'll say that not everybody should have a dog. You know, it's just it's just not everybody should have a dog. I've seen people, some of my clients that I've worked with, and some people that I've known, their lives deteriorated the moment they got a dog. You know, like now they're busier, they're just they don't realize that the financial strain that this animal is putting on their lives, it seems irrelevant. I just have a dog, but it's more than that. And you don't just have a dog, you have a part-time job now. You have now to revolve your schedule around this thing that depends on you. And people just don't think about those things. They just think about the quick dopamine rush of, I want to get a dog. You know, I've always wanted a dog, and then they realize, oh my God, this this is a lot of this is a lot of work and uh and a big financial investment.

Leah Lykos: 30:28

So yeah, I just did um a double TPLO surgery on my little female dog because she tore both of her CCLs and it's really expensive. And I had to think like I mean, to be honest, I was like, should I put this dog down? This is ten thousand dollars.

William Garrido: 30:53

I'm telling you.

Leah Lykos: 30:57

Is she gonna be okay after? Like, what if we put the ten thousand dollars and then she's like still limping around and has no quality of life? So these are I mean, they're really heavy issues. I'm glad I did it. She's doing great. She she's just about to turn five years old. If she was eight or ten years old, I probably would have to have, you know, considered the other option, which is terrible to say. But you do have to think about quality of life issues when they go through a major surgery like that. So it is, I'm glad actually the conversation went in this direction because it is just a humongous responsibility, and these dogs do become like family members. And so you kind of can't not take care of them the way they really need, or else it weighs on you, you know.

William Garrido: 31:53

And you know, the other thing too is, you know, the other thing that you know, I know, is yes, I mean, if somebody were to go, I don't care, you know, it's just I got the time, I'll, you know, I don't mind the money, I'll do that. I want a dog. The other thing that people don't realize is losing a dog because it's inevitable. They don't live as long as you do, right? It is inevitable. You're gonna lose a dog, right? The dog's gonna pass. Hopefully, they live a nice, happy, long life. But when you lose a pet, it is it is difficult, it's hard. You know, and in my experience, you know, and and I'll I'll say this, I don't have a problem saying this. You know, I've I've lost my grandparents. Um of my grandparents have already passed away. And yeah, I was like, oh man, that's too bad. I wish I had seen them again. But losing a pet is harder than losing, you know, my aunt. You know, I have one of my aunts uh passed away a few years ago to COVID. Uh, she was a really nice lady. I grew up, I have so many memories, you know, when I was little growing up, you know, going to her house. I loved her, I absolutely loved her. Um, but when one of my dogs passed, that was harder. You know, when when uh one of my cats had to be put down, that was way harder. So you're not just signing up for the for the burden of having a part-time job uh and the financial struggle or uh the financial restraint rather, but the impending loss that you're going to have to get over. It's very difficult. So these are all reasonable, and I think this is kind of a weird topic for a doctrine podcast, you know, to basically almost like discourage people if they're thinking about it. But I think it's just a conversation that's just not not had enough. You know, most people don't talk about that. Uh, there aren't that many conversations around that topic, but I think it's worth mentioning.

Leah Lykos: 34:12

Yeah, this is uh I might have to do a whole podcast just on the whole concept of look, you're caring for this animal that I mean, I don't have kids, so I do kind of treat my dogs like kids, like they sleep with me, which I don't recommend. But I mean, they're my constant companions, but it's it's really a dependent, a being that's dependent on you constantly.

William Garrido: 34:38

A hundred percent.

Leah Lykos: 34:40

And then the weird thing is it's like watching your child age and die in front of your eyes. It's very oh, it's gut-wrenching.

William Garrido: 34:52

The the pets that I've lost, you know, I I still remember them, and I'm like, oh man, if I think about especially when you had them as a when when they were young, you know, I've had dogs that I've lost when they were young, so you watch them from when they were like eight weeks of age, and then suddenly they they're just gone. Um, and then I've also had dogs that I've adopted at three, they lived until 15, and then they're gone. But it's it's hard because you you watch them grow. So it's it's it's difficult, you know. It is a it's a difficult thing, and it hits people very hard.

Leah Lykos: 35:32

It's it's really hard to describe what it is. Um But I think this is actually, you know, to bring it full circle, I think this is why people take their dogs to a park or a daycare, is because they are looking at it like, oh, this is I I don't want to say it's like a child because it's not, but it's like a family member. It's a it's a family member, and you want to do everything you can to make their life full, especially because they do have short lives. You want to make that life as full as possible. So it's totally understandable why people are trying to enrich their dog's lives by having them go to these social situations where they have lots of friends. But um I think, did you just get a new puppy?

William Garrido: 36:27

Yes and no. So it's it's sort of uh an evaluation process where I'm either going to keep them or I might sell them. So it for all intents and purposes, he's my puppy, you know, for the time being. I'm taking care of him, feeding him, I'm training him. He lives with me. Um, but I'm still not sure where you know where this is gonna go once he reaches about a year of age or so.

Leah Lykos: 36:53

Okay, the only reason I asked, so he might be more of like a raisin train kind of situation.

William Garrido: 36:59

With this particular dog, yes.

Leah Lykos: 37:02

What are you doing for how old is the dog, and what are you doing for him to to like quote unquote socialize the puppy?

William Garrido: 37:10

So he's uh he's four months of age. Well, almost four months of age. He's still he's still uh you know in the puppy stage, still within that 20-week uh window. So what I'm doing with him is obviously he's getting training, he's doing uh his little bite work with me, which he he loves to do. He was bred for that. As far as socializing goes, he does get to sniff and hang out a little bit for brief periods with my social dogs, which uh I have four other malinois. Three of them are social. The one is he's social enough, he's not a troublemaker, but you could tell he's waiting for an excuse. Yeah, and so so I don't, I don't, you know, I don't put him and the puppy in that situation. The puppy already knows. He's like, I don't want to mess with that guy. But with the other ones, you know, he does sniff, um, but I I control what he does. So the sniffing is good, the you know, rubbing is you know against each other is fine. Uh, when he starts like acting like he wants to hump the other dog, I'm like, no, we're not doing that. When he starts, you know, getting a little bit snappy, starts acts like he wants to put his teeth on him playfully, I'm like, no, we're not doing that. So I'm I'm being already very proactive at telling him what things are and are not acceptable. But that would be the the limited exposure. And it's not the the thing that to me is the most important, by the way. Like to me, it's not like this dog needs to see my other dogs. I would be perfectly fine if he didn't. It's just it just so happens that I have the other dogs, and so he is automatically exposed to them. Um, but if I didn't, I wouldn't make it a big deal to I need to go find other dogs for him to socialize to. He already gets plenty of uh enrichment with training, hanging out with me, which he loves, right? I literally can hold him, he can be on my lap, and he's just licking my face, hanging out with me the entire time. That's plenty of enrichment for him. Uh not every dog would love that, but he he particularly loves that. Um, and then you know, doing the bite work, uh, going for the walks, carrying things in his mouth, which he loves to do. So to me, I look at the overall um, you know, the overall routine, and I can see what things make him excited. And I go, I don't need to, you know, socialize with my other dogs. It just happens, but I don't need to do that because he enjoys the other stuff.

Leah Lykos: 39:48

Yeah, that's great. I, as I've developed as a dog trainer, I realized the most important thing for me is for my dogs to have a really close. Relationship with me, not with other dogs. I want to be the most important thing in their life. So it's not that I stop my dogs from having relationships with other dogs, but I don't place an emphasis on, oh, we need to find friends for you because you won't be fulfilled if you don't have doggy friends. It's like honestly, now that my dogs are five and six, they kind of prefer to be just with me. They they're not seeking out social interactions with other dogs. They love training, they love hiking in the woods. Um I just think we kind of project too much human psychology thinking they need friends. You know?

William Garrido: 40:45

Yes. No, I I tend to uh tend to agree with that. You know, you you you do see, and like I said earlier, you know, I'm I'm totally against comparing human to dogs. I see the the damage that that can do, but I also see that there is value in drawing some parallels. This would be an instance in which that wouldn't be you know appropriate, right? To you go, well, I would like to hang out with, I would like to socialize, so my dog needs to socialize. And the fact is, the dog doesn't need to. Another thing, too, another misinformation uh that people have is they're under the, and I used to believe it too, they're under the impression that dogs, you know, you know, you hear this, dogs are pack animals. And the reality is they're not necessarily pack animals. They can do very well in a you know traditional pack, but they're so adaptable that they can do amazing as lone, you know, by themselves animals. Like, for instance, yeah, wolves are pack animals. They need, they're they're happier when they have this group structure, this group dynamic. Uh fox are not, you know, pack animals. They're in the same, you know, in the same category of animal. They're both canids, but you know, a fox, you're not gonna see a pack of fox. You're gonna see one here and there living by themselves, maybe with you know, with a female, with their offspring. But the wolves, you're gonna see them in a pack. And so we, as a society, have categorized dogs into the pack category. And we go, well, they're they're a pack animals, so they need to have a pack, they need to have, they need to socialize. And the reality is they don't need to. That's the wonderful thing about dogs, is they're so adaptable that you can see them thriving in what we would call a pack, but we could also see them thriving by themselves. You know, when I was in Afghanistan, you would see a single dog. There'd be like nothing, literally nothing for miles, nothing. And there'd be one dog just thriving by himself, just walking around. So, and I've also been in other parts of the world where you see like a pack of dogs. So, because they're so adaptable, they don't need to be, you know, saying hi to all these dogs like we traditionally think they are.

Leah Lykos: 43:23

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I had the opportunity to visit the Dominican Republic and kind of observe the dogs there who just live on the street, they live on the beach. The most chill, relaxed, happy dogs you've ever seen because they're free. Now they don't seem to pack up. One dog came over and sat under our beach chairs. Another dog would go over to where they were serving food, and he was like asking people for food, but they weren't in a group like hunting things, you know, because the way that those dogs survive is by making relationships with people, not with other dogs. So I think, you know, I mean, we could go on for hours about this, but I think it's good to just observe like how do dogs live when they are not in a house, when they are a street dog or a beach dog and they're free to do what they want. Are they necessarily packing up? Not really.

William Garrido: 44:29

No, not at all. It's because it's because we're both equally adaptable. You know, it's an interesting thing is you can only see wolves in you know in certain parts of the world. You're not gonna see a wolf randomly, you know, in in Austin just walking around. Because wolves are not adaptable. You're not gonna just see a random fox in an area where they wouldn't be naturally, you wouldn't naturally see fox. Dogs you can see in every corner of the world. You can see them in just about every type of environment because they're that adaptable. Humans are the same. You don't just see human sightings in certain climates or certain parts of the world. You see humans in every corner of the world. So we're both so incredibly adaptable. This is why we together as two different species have uh, you know, maybe not evolved, but have uh uh matured, you know, in in um in this nice symbiotic relationship that we've had is because we're both equally adaptable. Um but yeah, again, it's it's a pretty deep topic. And and um yeah, that's why, you know, dogs, like you said, they don't need to have dog friends.

Leah Lykos: 45:52

Yeah, and there certainly are dogs who will thrive being really social. I think it's a really small percentage of dogs, like a much smaller percentage than we think. Um, and some of that depends on breed, some of it's just personality or temperament. So if you do have a dog that loves other dogs and you can socialize them with other dogs who are safe, that you know the other dog's owner and how they care for the dog, and if they actually know their dog's kind of thresholds and how to read their dog's body language, then I'm all for like, yes, set up a play date with another dog who is safe, just exactly like what you were saying. If you have some friends, you know the dogs are pro-social, your dog actually does get a lot of enrichment and fulfillment from that interaction, that's great. You know, I'm trying to hit every angle so that we don't make anybody upset. I think to wrap things up, do you have any closing thoughts on the whole daycare dog park situation?

William Garrido: 47:01

Probably I would say don't latch onto the idea that it needs to be done because it doesn't need to be done. Uh and no socialization is way better than poor socialization. You know, that would be my closing thoughts on that.

Leah Lykos: 47:22

That's the key right there. We want to prevent the dog from having bad experiences.

William Garrido: 47:28

Absolutely.

Leah Lykos: 47:29

Especially at the younger age where they're more impressionable. So I think protecting puppies is like really important.

William Garrido: 47:38

Yeah, that the first 20 weeks of their lives are so crucial to their entire development.

Leah Lykos: 47:47

Yeah. And some dogs are like one, what do you call it? Like a one incident learner where like one bad thing.

William Garrido: 47:55

Single event learner, yeah.

Leah Lykos: 47:56

Yeah, single event.

William Garrido: 47:58

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that that's for some dogs that are that sensitive where yeah, they'll just get that one experience and they're like, oh, so that's how the world works. And we're like, no, it's not, that's just an exception. And they're like, nope, that's how the world works.

Leah Lykos: 48:13

Yeah.

William Garrido: 48:13

And then after that, that's that's how they uh that's what they you know they they they turn that into code for their for their behavioral software.

Leah Lykos: 48:24

Exactly.

William Garrido: 48:25

Permanent.

Leah Lykos: 48:26

So okay, cool. Well, where can people find you?

William Garrido: 48:32

Well, if um if they just go to Dog Training is my passion, super simple. Um, altogether, Dog Training is My Passion on YouTube. Um, if you go to Dog Training Is My Passion.com, I will also bring you to a list of some of the books I've written. Um, it'll also have a link to uh to my YouTube channel. So yeah, Dog Turning is my passion on uh on Instagram, Facebook if you're on Facebook, uh TikTok, I post some stuff there also. But uh podcast platforms or YouTube, it's all the same handle. Dog turning is my passion.

Leah Lykos: 49:06

Thank you so much. It was great to finally meet you on Zoom. And uh yeah, I hope we get to uh meet in real life sometime and maybe do some training together. So thanks for being here.

William Garrido: 49:21

It was a pleasure. Thank you for having me.