Challenges Men Face (Let's Talk)

In this episode, CJ and I dive into the multifaceted challenges and societal pressures that men encounter in today's world.

From the expectations of masculinity to the silent struggles of self-worth, our discussion uncovers the often unspoken realities that shape men's lives.

Our mission is to equip men to recognize their inherent worth and redesign the rules they live by—replacing hyper-masculine pressure with authentic strength—so they lead fulfilled, value-driven lives at home, at work, and in the world.

Join us as we share personal stories and insights, offering a platform for extreme transparency, empathy and empowerment. 

Share with a man that needs to be encourage and looking for REAL talk!

Watch Here (video version)

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:00)
So let's get us a word of prayer in as we start this thing.

God, we are so grateful in this moment to be given the opportunity to share our lives with one another and to share our lives with those that might be listening and might be watching. It is an honor to just do life with others. It's so precious and yet so powerful that somehow you made it so that we would all

have a desire to invest in the lives of others. No matter who we are, we acknowledge that there's something that we have to offer and we are of benefit to others. CJ and I, we just pause in this moment to say thank you God. Thank you for the awareness that we have value as men and that our voices have value.

We pause in this moment to say, God, thank you so much for our friendship and relationship and connection with one another. And we thank you for how you're shaping us to, as I've recently received it, returning to ourselves, reconnecting to ourselves and being empowered to eventually be able to release ourselves back into the world.

We acknowledge how we were lied to and told that the way we were or the way we are isn't good enough. ⁓ We acknowledge the lie that.

We needed to change something about ourselves that we needed to become different. We needed to look different, sound different, be different some way, somehow so that some way, somehow we would be of value. But the truth is God, the fact that you created us, it demonstrates, it proves and it shows that we have value. And in this time, God, we want to submit this podcast and these episodes.

to you that they may have the power to reveal to every man under the sound of our voices that they too have value, inherent value. Value that goes beyond what people think. Value that goes beyond and supersedes people's opinions. Value that goes beyond what they can present or what they can do or accomplish or achieve or provide. The fact that they are proves that

They are valuable.

their very existence is the evidence that they matter and we want them to know that they matter to us. So God use us, use us greatly, mightily, powerfully in this moment to empower, to inspire, to motivate, to be an example of men that are just trying. God, thank you for a try. We both have been through so much.

We've been hit so hard by life, man. We've been dragged through so much. We've been tested in so many ways, man. People have used us and abused us in so many ways, man. Life gets so crazy. And yet we're here in this moment. And we know that it's all because of you. For we both have testimonies that we should be dead by now or locked up in prison.

Or, I don't know, even worse, strung out on drugs or something else. the fact that we are of our right minds and ⁓ we have a desire to help others is a miracle in itself, a testimony in itself. So God, be glorified, be honored. Advance your kingdom. And ascend through us.

Jesus saying we pray say it receive by faith all these things Amen Let's get it Let's get it man Right there. Well, they all good if you if you looking to him they are Yeah, they all good if you if you looking at something greater than yourself if you believe in something greater than yourself, they all good

Speaker 1 (04:25)
Amen.

was a good prayer.

yes,

absolutely. Absolutely. That ⁓ that what you were saying in that prayer is just it hits home. know, for us to be through so much. And boy, ⁓ you know, throughout the 40 years or plus that we've been living, it went so fast.

Speaker 2 (04:48)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:13)
Yeah, that's such a long time.

Speaker 2 (05:19)
It is. Yeah. Like, yeah, that's that is.

Speaker 1 (05:22)
Yeah. You know, to see when, you know, to to witness your kids grow up and to see like when they were little to see them now. know, you get to you get to see the time. But yet it's it's passed so fast. ⁓ That's it's amazing how how God has kept us ⁓ through this lifetime.

And hopefully through through God that we've we spend another 40 50. Some of us don't want to spend that long here, but I kind of enjoy this life for right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're hoping for better. Yeah. But certainly for what we for what we understand. I enjoy it. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:16)
Yeah.

I

enjoy the company. I enjoy the camaraderie. enjoy, you know, just being around people is it's it makes life. It makes life good. To see. To see people grow, to see men grow.

to see ⁓ the different times that we're in. ⁓ You know, the things that we're thinking about and going through right now. We never could imagine that when we were kids. No, you know, we never could imagine being in this position. You know, we always have as kids, you have dreams of of being this being this. ⁓

Speaker 2 (07:14)
you

Speaker 1 (07:16)
football player, this basketball player, this famous person. ⁓ We have those dreams, not knowing that ⁓ what you see on TV and what you see witnessing these celebrities and things like that, the things that they go through, it looks harder than what you see. It is ⁓ behind closed doors. So that's that's.

You know, do you want that life? You know, as men, we strive to ⁓ be this person ⁓ that wants to be up front, that wants to be in the camera, that wants to show their lives in front of people and to be the rich guy, to be the guy with everything, you know?

And what is everything? Once you have that, what's left? I think the camaraderie and the relationships are a huge deal in this life. ⁓

What what do you see as far as our our men right now? ⁓ Do you see them having the same dreams that we had as kids? ⁓ Striving for that. For that, that life of because now everything is so so much on TV, you know, like your life is presented on on the Instagram on.

the Facebook, everything is like, you can see everybody's life. ⁓ Do you think kids grow up right now as that, as wanting to show their process, show their lives and wanting to be famous? Is that still a thing?

Speaker 2 (09:07)
you.

I think they want to be famous. Well, I think at its core, because I always look at things from a perspective of what is it that you really want? I think that we all inherently want to be known because that's a part of how God created us to be a part of, whether it's a part of a family.

a part of society, a part of a group. know, scientists have done a lot of research and when they go back, as far as they can go back, there's this commonality amongst all organisms where they want to be a part of, and then you just fill in the blank, a part of this environment, a part of this family system, a part of this group, a part of this network. So I think that wanting to be a part of something

is natural. It's it's human. I think what we're starting to allude to is it gets distorted. It gets polluted. It gets it gets turned into something that it shouldn't be. And then it becomes, you know, survival of the fittest or I was trying to think of something else, but it was just the idea of like the superiority thing. It's

Well, this group has these resources for whatever reason. And unless you find a way to get into that group, then you're made to feel less than. That's the element that I think a lot of our younger men are dealing with on just different levels. Whether it's in the school system. You know how we always got the cool kids.

Speaker 1 (11:21)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:22)
jocks

as we used to come up. Those are the jocks or those are the football players or those are the basketball players or those are the guys that the girls like. But it was always these subgroups. And these subgroups were created out of things that usually the members of the subgroups could not actually take credit for. But they find commonality and then it gets distorted.

Speaker 1 (11:34)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:51)
Here's an example. If a football player is 6'2", 275 rock solid muscle genetically, genetically fast, those are God given attributes. They didn't give themselves those attributes. Now they then go into a larger ecosystem called the school. They find people that are like them. I'm 6'5".

and I'm a hundred and whatever or I'm whatever, whatever. So now you start to see them group up, link up, hook up. Now you have this super group that now those are nothing that they gave themselves. They, that's God given, but then they find commonality, which is still innocent. They find the commonality, but then at some point, and there's a million reasons why this happens, but at some point, whether it's through ego, through people feeding their ego, through

something that they take notice of, ⁓ advantages that they start to see and recognize, and then they start to exploit those things that that common connection becomes, well, now we're better than. If you're six to 275 pounds, fast athletic, yada, yada, how and why does that make you any better than the nerd or the unpopular kid who's

5'7", 125 pounds, and he's just book smart. What makes you better? But through all of these other things, these advantages that we see, like for example, if the football player gets a lot of attention from the girls because they're physically impressive, so the women gravitate toward them, the jocks notice that, they get all puffed up.

Speaker 1 (13:22)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:48)
They start to feel theyself and that passes on to the next. ⁓ I'm a part of this group. So that builds on the next. And before you know it, that kind of organic transition happens in all kinds of spaces and places. You can go to corporate America, see the same thing. You go to church, you see the same thing. That's true. He's anointed to speak. He's blessed of God to do X, Y and Z.

And then they start to sit over in that area. All the anointed folks sit over there. The anointed folks go to lunch together. All the blessed and highly favored folks tend to go to lunch over here. And then the people that are on the outs, they see it and they're like, well, I'm feel some type of way about myself because I don't fit into that. So anyway, my point is...

All things like that is, we all have a desire to be known, to fit in, be validated, to experience our value. That's pure, that's innocent, that's God. But then it gets distorted and polluted and it becomes ⁓ something that it just shouldn't be.

Speaker 1 (15:13)
Yeah, that's that's crazy that you said that because I heard something about how or in the early days, yeah, people would be afraid to speak up. People would be afraid to be different ⁓ because if you disagreed with the group.

If you disagreed with the community, you will be outcast. You will be in the woods by yourself, so to say. ⁓ You would be all alone having to gather your own food, take up your own home. You will be outcast pretty much. So what people would do, I mean, obviously they wouldn't speak up against what was wrong or...

Speaker 2 (15:57)
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (16:11)
what they disagreed about. And now we have this opportunity where someone can't wait to give a piece of their mind. Some people can't wait to be different. ⁓ But now it's being different in the wrong way. ⁓ Like you said, it's distorted. It's a difference to the point where you're causing controversy.

Speaker 2 (16:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:42)
You're causing chaos You know that's that's That's powerful. It's you know, our words are powerful. Yeah That sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words never hurt words do hurt and words are words are very powerful. Yeah You know, even when we speak in our lives and the whole

Speaker 2 (16:44)
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:09)
the whole movement that you're doing as far as, you know, speaking to ourselves. Yeah, I am the possible. That's that's that's powerful in its own way. ⁓

I've been going through a few conversations with men. ⁓ And these are men that don't even know that I do a podcast. wow. Don't even know that I'm a part of it. OK. They don't even it never never hurt me on the mic or you. More than likely. OK. But, you know, these conversations just came about and.

They were pretty interesting because you get to see men's point of view and men being vulnerable in a sense and opening up. And I've had the opportunity to listen and to view their point of views on life. it's interesting to see that.

because I grew up in the church from birth, pretty much. I grew up, know, solid right there. Yeah, you was in there. After what? Maybe I would say, I wouldn't even say less than a week I was in the church after being born. You know, my parents were the...

They were the ones that was bringing me to church and you know, I was growing up in that in that ⁓ in that part and To see people's point of views throughout life is is interesting ⁓ You know, they don't they don't feel the same way that I feel they don't see the same things that I see They don't look at things the way that I look at things ⁓

And as a as a Christian, I'm really like calling myself it's it's I'm having a I having an issue with that right now. All right. You know, I don't I'm through the things that I'm and witnessing is just kind of it's a it's a different I feel what Miles Morose said. said we are citizens.

of the kingdom. It's not a religion. We are citizens. We are family of the kingdom. You know, and that's how I feel. I feel like I'm a citizen of this kingdom ⁓ and I should take part of this, you know. ⁓ But. Like I was saying, they don't see what I see, and that's not that's not a that's not a I'm not saying it to say like.

I see better. Right. I'm saying that we just see things different. Yeah. And, you know, I came across the conversations and it was just it was it was really it was eye opening because what they were saying, I was I was looking at it as. How do you not see it this way?

Speaker 2 (20:23)
Right.

Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:48)
And as as Christians, we put ourselves in this kind of in this circle as if we're different from others. And we tend to. We tend to judge people's thoughts, people's feelings. People's views without even knowing. Yeah. And I am I am a.

Speaker 2 (21:00)
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (21:18)
a victim of that. am a I I am one of those who looked at people like that. Yeah. And for me to go through this conversation with someone, it was kind of like, wow. When I when I started, it was like as if I was judging them. OK, you know. Yeah. And I didn't even know that I was doing that. But they felt that way.

You know, and it made me look at myself like, wow, like now I see, now I see why people.

Speaker 2 (21:53)
this.

Speaker 1 (22:02)
elude the fate, come against it, don't want to be a part of it.

Speaker 2 (22:07)
Right, definitely.

Speaker 1 (22:10)
And it's like we don't even see this, the log in our eyes.

Speaker 2 (22:15)
Mm.

Speaker 1 (22:18)
when we're trying to get the spec out of theirs.

You know, and that's that's tough. I and I saw that I saw me. saw myself doing that. And once they pointed it out, I was like, wow, you know, God forgive me first. But also I asked for their forgiveness. OK. You know, I told them that I apologize for, you know, seeming that way. And no intention was I trying to, you know, feel like you're judged by your opinions, by your thoughts, by your.

Speaker 2 (22:34)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:52)
you know, what you've been through as a child ⁓ and what you've grown up throughout this whole situation. You have been through so many different other things than what I have. Every person has been different. And I have to take accountability what you've been through ⁓ without judging and without

Speaker 2 (23:05)
It is.

Speaker 1 (23:21)
It's making it seem like you're wrong for your thoughts. You're wrong for your feelings.

Speaker 2 (23:29)
That's big, man. That's big.

Speaker 1 (23:32)
It's amazing how, know, once you start looking inside yourself and being saying, hey, I'm guilty of that. that's very eye opening in someone's life to do that and admit it.

Speaker 2 (23:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, especially to go back and say, yeah, that's a real man. As we like to say, know, what real men do, but yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (24:02)
Yeah

Yeah, and I just, ⁓ I was baffled. ⁓ I couldn't believe that I was doing that and I didn't know the whole time that I'd been doing that.

Speaker 2 (24:25)
easy to do.

Speaker 1 (24:25)
Yeah.

So we see these things as men. I had I had a question for you. These things as as men, we go through ⁓ life and ⁓ we have situations where ⁓ people right now are listening to the Bible or reading the Bible and

They get these they see these things. They're reading these things of how God had massacres pretty much in the Bible, getting rid of people and all the Old Testament things ⁓ that they're seeing and are reading. ⁓ And they're wondering how. How I'm able to be a Christian and see these things one way and read these things one way.

And then, but yet you want us to love. You want us to to to be kind and things like that. They're they're showing there's so many ⁓ they're trying to say that that this is the conversations that I'm going through that ⁓ there's been contradictions, so to say, in the Bible. ⁓ We've gotten into these to these conversations, deep conversations where they're they're disagreeing about.

how God was, if God was this way. And it's,

It's kind of made me question a little bit, ⁓ you know, as far as like where they're they're getting this information from, but how they're interpreting. Yeah, because I never saw it that way. I never saw it where these contradictions were just like, wow. OK, well, I see what you're saying. ⁓ So I had to apologize and be like, wow. OK. I. ⁓

Speaker 2 (26:32)
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (26:33)
That's a good question. Those are valid questions that people have ⁓ about the Bible. What do you think about that as far as like saying one minute, love your enemies and then the next minute you'd wipe it out a whole.

Speaker 2 (26:55)
You

wiping them out, but you telling us to forget. Yeah, yeah. Well, first off, man, I love having these conversations because I think a lot of folks, more of them, or let me say it this way, there's more of those that are questioning than would want to admit it. In other words,

Speaker 1 (26:57)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:23)
You're fortunate enough to have a conversation with people who are honest enough to say hey I'm reading this and this ain't connect like the math ain't math and like like this ain't connecting these dots ain't connecting And they're just using common sense. Just logic like it just And it's not like they're bad people trying to like prove god wrong or trying to dispel the by they're just like I just see something that just It's got me baffled. Yeah. So first off

Speaker 1 (27:36)
is.

Speaker 2 (27:53)
I'm glad that you're having these conversations ⁓ because I've been having these conversations with myself, with others for several years. And I think at some point we all, there's a popular term out there, deconstruction, or we deconstruct. ⁓ At some point we come into the faith, we construct. We're just told.

Jesus did this, this did this, God did this, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're fed it and we just, we just take it. We just, we just roll with it. We just assume half of it. We don't read ourselves. We don't study ourselves. We don't research ourselves. We don't, we don't hold up to a magnifying glass. just, yeah, that must be it. Now here's, let me, let me take a step back just out of my own personal life. One of the reasons I did that was because I was

I found Christ in jail. Like, I'm facing 15 years, I got a girlfriend who's my wife now, my first son, born.

That's on the line for me. And I'm facing 15 years for grand theft. Now I robbed the Bistro, I did that, I was guilty as charged. They found me out, I'm locked up, and I'm given an opportunity on a Sunday morning to just get out the jail cell. So I'm not looking for no God, but...

When the bailiff guy comes down the hall, he's like, yo, anybody want to just get out your cell for a little while? We got a little Sunday service going on. And I'm just like, yo, I'm with that because I just want to get out of this cell. I go down the hall and, ⁓ you know, little white, well, I forgot what nationality they were, but just little women dressing all white.

Speaker 1 (29:51)
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:52)
Because a lot of it is just a blur. But they're dressed in all white and ⁓ I don't even remember what they preached out of or what they preached. But here's what they said, and this is going to tie back to my answer. They asked me or they asked the room a question. Are you tired of where you are? That's all they said. Like, are you tired of where you are? Do you want something better?

And to me that was the most simplistic question you could like absolutely do you understand? Yes. Do you understand what I am doing with my life? And you just said do I want, yes of course I want better. Yes. I don't want to go to church. What you got? Right? Exactly what you got. And they like yo this Jesus dude.

Speaker 1 (30:31)
you got ⁓

Speaker 2 (30:38)
He died, he lived, he died, he rose again, yada, yada, yada. And if you get with Christ, you get with Jesus, man, he'll make it all better. So I'm like, I'll take that offer. And the thing about it was, I always tell the testimony, it's like, I did not instantly believe. I don't think I did. It was, I know what I'm doing ain't working.

I'll try Jesus because I had tried all the other gods. I have been Muslim. I had made up my own god, the unigod. I got that tattooed on me. I made up all type of other stuff. tried, ⁓ you know, other religions. To me, I had tried everything and now you're offering me Christ. So for me, it was a I'll try Christ. And so I tried Christ. Coming into the church.

Speaker 1 (31:25)
Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:30)
They provided me a better outlook on life. Like everything was a better outlook. You got this savior that came and saved you. You got this new, like you're born again. You get to start over. Like all of these concepts that's woven into Christianity, you want all of that because again, you're comparing it to where you are. So this is an escape.

Speaker 1 (31:56)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:00)
So I don't need to fact check anything you're saying if you're telling me he rose and and he took the the keys from hell and and and when I die I'm gonna I'm go to this paradise and all this other stuff. I'm like, Absolutely Anything is better than what I'm doing in these streets. Yeah, and I get to be with my family. I get to build a new life So i'm not saying that any of that is not legit. What i'm saying is is that

Speaker 1 (32:20)
it.

Speaker 2 (32:29)
I think that contributes to why initially we just gobble everything up without fact checking it, without looking, without researching, without asking any questions, because I believe for a large number of us, not everybody, because like you, some are born into it. It's just, I was raised Christian, but for those of us who come from the streets, it was a better life. initially, however,

Speaker 1 (32:49)
you.

Speaker 2 (32:59)
It happened whether you came from the streets and you just looking for something better So so you ain't asking no questions or you raised in it and it's just like this is just what we do again This is what we do. So I ain't asking no questions. Yeah, so either way I asked no questions either way either way you come in So I get the not asking questions initially, but then at some point life starts to become more meaningful

Speaker 1 (33:17)
Yeah. Right?

Speaker 2 (33:28)
the search for meaning. There's a book called Man's Search for Meaning. ⁓ I forgot who wrote it, but that really summarizes it. As we grow older and we mature.

Speaker 1 (33:38)
Is that Victor Frankel? Is that that one?

Speaker 2 (33:43)
I be,

I'm not certain. I'm not certain, yeah, but man search for meaning. ⁓ I've just heard it before. But that summarized what I'm trying to explain is like as we grow older, life ain't, it's not okay to just be doing stuff just to be doing it. We just start to naturally evolve into why am I doing this? What?

is really happening. Who am I really? What is this really? So I think that's a ⁓ natural phenomenon that I'm not educated enough to understand or to explain. It's just something that I'm experiencing. And my mentors have shared it with me that as you get older,

things start to narrow in and you start to focus in a little bit more and you start asking questions that you've never asked before and things start mattering that that once never mattered so for me i just take it as yeah it's just a natural progression that you would start to question you know what's going on ⁓ but as it relates to the contradictions and it relates to

You know, I'm looking at this guy that over here is committing mass genocide. And then over here, he's saying, forgive your neighbor and forgive your enemy.

where my theology has me, where my faith has me, because I've deconstructed, I've asked all the hard questions and broken it all down, and I've been open to not believing. Like, I've literally gone as far as saying, ⁓ I'm okay with starting from zero. Like, what if there is no God? Like, literally going that far and saying, let's rebuild this thing from the ground up.

because I needed, because I too was starting to see things that did not match and did not add up. So I was starting to have those hard questions within myself. So I was just like, okay, well, if this is gonna be this, ⁓ this is gonna say this over here, but then this over here is not gonna match. If I take a step back,

For me personally, where would I go if none of this ever connected and there was no way for any of this to connect? What would I believe? Just about my life's experience, not logic, not intelligence, not any of those things. What am I intrinsically experiencing?

as a human, homo sapien, flesh and blood, what can I point to to lay a foundation? And for me, it was...

All things have a source. Everything to me appear to have been created. Everything has a rhythm, has a flow, has a check and balance of coming forth from, giving into, and returning to nothing.

Everything. Everything has a, I'm coming from something, I am providing something, I am returning to being nothing. Like that's just a flow of life and you can look at it everywhere.

If an animal is born, they weren't there, they were born, they become the animal, the animal provides food or provides whatever, whatever, and then at some point it dies, it disintegrates, and as far as we can understand, it's no longer. Everything does that. The plant life, the ocean life, the human life, everything comes from, provides, is no more. So I said, okay, well...

If I can just look at that and just say, if that is something that is common across the galaxy, then I can start by saying there is a foundation of my faith that says there is a God. There is. So I had to start with the foundation of there is a God. To me, yes, there is this boundless, limitless

⁓ Unrestricted intelligent entity being energy spirit Godness like it's it's there it has to be there So I'm okay with that. I you right so so now and I'm I'm just walking you through my my Processing in like a quick little summary once I was able to lay that foundation as It concerns the contradictions of the Bible. This is where I land

Speaker 1 (38:40)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:53)
Let me ask you a question. This is the best way that I can illustrate it. Everything comes from something, serves a purpose, and then becomes no more. So let me ask you, do you believe that there is a sun in the sky? Do you believe that the sun is hot? Okay, where did the sun come from?

Speaker 1 (39:16)
Yes.

You got me there

Speaker 2 (39:23)
Why is

it hot?

Speaker 1 (39:26)
Continue.

Speaker 2 (39:27)
But do you believe that there's a sun in the sky? K. That's me in the Bible.

Speaker 1 (39:29)
Yes.

Speaker 2 (39:36)
Did you catch it?

Speaker 1 (39:40)
I it.

Speaker 2 (39:41)
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why in this chapter the writer said, God said, do these things and murder all these people. And then over here, the writer said that God said, forgive your enemy. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (39:43)
you

Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:09)
All these writers had to contribute to the Bible. I don't know why. I don't know why. The the Bible has been touched so many times. There are. And we've probably lost count of the number of trends was called not ⁓ translations.

Speaker 1 (40:35)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:36)
When you open up your Bible app, my God, you can, it's like social media now. Remember of Trace.

Speaker 1 (40:40)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:44)
Let alone the

number of revisions all the way back to before the dead, see scrolls and all of these papayas and original texts and all this other stuff, like even before then, but then passed down and the Jewish Bible says and the Torah says and the left out letters from so-and-so says, why did we mess with, like, why did we touch it so, like, why did we do?

What makes the most sense to me, man, when it comes to the contradictions, and then I'm going go ahead and pass it back to you, is that anything that man touches, for whatever reason, how God designed us, ⁓ and for whatever caused it, anything that man touches, man desires to leverage for man's own good. If we touch it, we're manipulating it for our good.

We never manipulated for our destruction. So if it's going through a million different variations, then those groups that continue to mess with it, it was in their best interest to do so. And then they passed it down, and then the next group that was authorized to mess with it and tweak it, ⁓ they did so for their own purposes.

Where we land man today is we have this holy text. We have this precious book that contains

like just an infinite amount of wisdom and guidance ⁓ and history. And some will agree with me, some won't. But where my theology lands me today, where I am today is I look at it as something that with the consciousness and the awareness that it has been touched more times than I can count.

That it still somehow, someway contains what I need to live the best life that I can. And I am very okay for what it's worth, who's ever listening. I've subscribed to the I don't know gang. I'm very comfortable saying I don't know. Like, I'm so not offended by I don't know. Well how come? Bruh, I don't know.

Yeah, but I can tell you endless testimonies of why my life has radically transformed by following the things I read in that book If you want something more than that, I'm not your guy If you want to know why did chapter 8 of Genesis not agree with chapter 13

Bro, I know it matters. It does. But take it from someone who over the last five or almost probably five or ten years have pulled this thing apart and have wrestled in relief. And it just you you you have to come to some point where you say there's things I just will never understand. And what am I going to do?

Speaker 1 (44:02)
You tried.

Speaker 2 (44:17)
with the resources that are available. And the Bible is one of those resources. What am I gonna do with this? Because every time I read Proverbs, life gets better. It applies. Every time I read that gospel and Jesus is interacting with folks, and then I pattern my life after the way he was interacting with folks, and then I interact with folks the way he was interacting with folks, good things happen.

Speaker 1 (44:27)
It applies.

I had to see that's why I don't understand because you know like people they ⁓ they make it so difficult they make it so difficult for themselves and for others and they're just sitting here questioning why this why this why this and why why go through life like that you know why go through life and not have this supreme being on your side why

Speaker 2 (44:54)
Yeah.

Thank

Speaker 1 (45:13)
Wouldn't you?

Speaker 2 (45:15)
You know what, one thing that I don't dabble in too much, but I'll just bring it up here. And I don't know how to explain it. So I I honestly don't want to go down that path, but I'll just allude to it. Like there is something to be said about, ⁓

There is something to be said about having some sort of antagonist, spiritual antagonist, spiritual adversary. ⁓ The reason I'm very careful when I say it, because I've been exposed to enough where the traditional ⁓ horns and a pitchfork devil don't work for me no more. ⁓ But there is something to be said that there's something that's at work.

That's not in our best interest that wants What's worse for us? There's something there that's unseen that's working In opposition. Yeah to our good and whatever that is Devil satan satan lucifer be as above whatever name you want to give it demons ⁓ Whatever that is whatever that is ⁓ I think

There's a role that that plays in getting us hyper focused on contradictions in the Bible when we don't hyper focus on the contradictions of life. Like we're sitting in chairs right now. How come these chairs aren't floating away?

Speaker 1 (46:50)
because of gravity, I guess.

Speaker 2 (46:53)
Okay. Now, isn't there a point that if we kept going high in the sky, like if we were to get into a rocket ship and we would continue to go straight up, at some point, wouldn't that gravity disappear and things just start floating? Okay, but aren't we in the same atmosphere? Well, that's contradictory. We haven't left. Space is infinite. We didn't leave space. So how come in this space, everything stays to the ground?

Speaker 1 (47:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:23)
but we go higher in the air, which is in the same space, and all of a sudden it starts to float. That's contradictory, because it's one thing space, but in this part, things float and cannot stay down. But in this space, it holds to the ground. Now, I know scientists have their theory, and they're able to explain how it works.

Speaker 1 (47:28)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:49)
What scientists does or where scientists in or where science ends the limitation on science is science cannot explain why. They can say, the sun, it's a trillion degrees hot. It can tell you what, but it can't tell you why. was talking to my kids the other day. said, how come the sun is not cold? Well, I don't know. ⁓ okay. But it's hot. Yeah, it's hot.

And if you get close enough, it'll just, you would just disintegrate. Yes. Okay. But why isn't it cold? Well, I don't know.

Okay, but you don't spend hours and hours and hours somewhere sitting on a a on the ledge pondering Why is it hot you just allow it to be? Yeah, so a lot of it is like What is that that's working against us that has us hyper focused on? Finding all the contradictions in the Bible rather than saying as I read the Bible What can I pick out of this that's going to benefit my life? Yeah

Because we don't do it with nothing else. We got contradictions everywhere around us, man. But we don't do it with nothing else. How come we always pick it on the Bible? Right? Now, I say this with boldness because for the last few years, I've been picking on the Bible. I've been like mad at it. I even told my pastor, I said, man, I got such a respect for the Bible, I don't even pick it up. I literally confess that as a pastor.

There's been times in the last couple of years where I have not even picked up the Bible. I haven't even picked it up because I was so angry and so confused with the very thing that you're talking about. Why is this thing not adding up? And why is it so deep that all these scholars have to pull it apart, but God somehow wants me to live by it?

Because the scholars would tell you that you have to know the time in which it was said and you have to understand the writer's point of view and you have to understand the cultural times and you have to understand the context and you have to understand the language and you have to understand the what damn dude. In a right mind got time to know all of that right. So I'm just like really God this is what you're doing this really also like is that deep and the average Joe.

Speaker 1 (50:07)
Cool.

Speaker 2 (50:20)
who's got a nine to five, got a family, got kids, trying to make ends meet. He or she ain't got time for that. Yeah. Yeah. So there's, yeah, there's been times I ain't even touched the Bible. Cause I've been just angry. Just like, man, whatever. God, I know you're there, but that, nah, that must've been something man made up and just been done. But yet I'm returning to, and it's a process.

I'm returning to, I can't explain it, but the evidence of my life is connected to that book. That, you can't take that from me. So that's kind of where my theology has me. It's like, I know my life radically changed when I began to believe God, when I began to call on Jesus, when I began to read that book.

and apply what I read to my life. My life just got better.

Speaker 1 (51:23)
Amen.

Amen to that. Because I feel the same. ⁓ You know, when I started taking, ⁓ you know, being a citizen, when I started taking that seriously, things started changing for the good for me. ⁓ I was able to control my emotions now. Better. Better than what I was. I was able to...

Speaker 2 (51:25)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:53)
see things out from others point of views. I was able to forgive. was able to ⁓ move on from things. There's still some things that that still lingers in my life that I haven't been able to. But.

I'm a work in progress. There's this nobody perfect. ⁓ And I think we got to get out of that mindset of trying to be perfect.

And you know, that's kind of a contradiction in itself, you know, looking at the Bible wanting to be this ultimate Christian, wanting to be this no flaw person. And it's impossible. ⁓

Speaker 2 (52:50)
And

unnecessary. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:53)
Yeah, that's very true. ⁓ I just, you know, I ponder things when it comes to the, you know, people not believing or not being believers. And it's like, why wouldn't you want the supernatural? Why wouldn't you want the miracles?

Why wouldn't you want those things to happen in your life? You know, ⁓ why? Why? Why stand against that? Why be against that? Why say that there's no such thing as that? Like, why? Why would you? Why would you put yourself in that bubble to be like like that? And so I was I came across this this this podcast. OK, it's it's a

Three comedians. okay. Three comedians. I forgot the guy's name. He's pretty famous though. ⁓ but he's, he's known for going overboard. Okay. he's known for, you know, saying things that's, that's pushing the line. Okay. So to say, ⁓ but he, he has this podcast and he's like the main dude. but he brung on this historian, this Bible historian.

I know if you ever heard of him. His last name is Huff. I it's like William Huff or something. Yeah, he's pretty interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:22)
Will. Yep. Yep. Watched lot of his content. Yeah. No,

no, no. I'm sorry. Wes. Wes. Wes. Yeah, he's something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:29)
West, west, west, Yeah, it's pretty interesting. didn't.

He's interesting. I didn't I didn't I never heard of him till like yesterday. Yeah. And I was listening to this to this podcast and they were asking him questions.

Speaker 2 (54:41)
Okay.

Was the comedian the I don't know if he's he's right. Yeah with the

Speaker 1 (54:49)
Italian ⁓

Speaker 2 (54:54)
Yeah, he off the hook too. Yeah, he wild.

He says some slick

stuff that made me want to go punch him in the head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's like you can only say like I'm comedian no comedian There's only so much you can really say About any race that ain't yours. Yes, you you you funny to a point, but then it's not a ha ha. Yeah at some point I'm about to whip you. I'm about to whip you. I'm about to get up and I'm about to whoop on your body I'm about to whoop your body and then cops gonna come and get me. There's a point. There's a point and then

we go there, right? But anyway, go ahead. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wild, he wild.

Speaker 1 (55:37)
I was listening to it. It was it was interesting. And like I said, that was the first time I heard this guy huff. ⁓ Yes. And how he was breaking down a lot of things. ⁓ And it was like what they were saying, you know, as far as like giving them the question as far as like, you know, what about the person that's, you know, living in?

Speaker 2 (55:44)
Okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:03)
Pakistan or something that never knew nothing about God never encountered that never you know Listen to those things and how can God say that he's not going to be saved or go to heaven because He didn't proclaim or say that I believe in Jesus that Jesus rose again ⁓

those questions like people have. ⁓ What do you say to those things as far as the people that's never heard? My answer to that question was,

God is love, so we all have different paths. we, if, let's just keep it as simple as we can. You know, we make these things so difficult for ourselves.

as far as like, what if there was this person that never, what about the baby that was born and then died three months later? Come on, man. Like, why are we doing this to ourselves? Why are we wasting time being this way and being so hard headed about these things, about what's in our face?

Speaker 2 (57:22)
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (57:37)
I can't believe that people are just going to ask these questions. It's like, come on, man. What are doing here? Why we got to go that far? You know, to try to prove God wrong, to try to prove this religion wrong. Like, why? Why is this one religion that we're going against like everybody's trying to go against? It's like it just doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (57:43)
Yeah

It makes sense to me ⁓

Speaker 1 (58:09)
W-w-w-w-what can you- w-w-w-w-what would that be?

Speaker 2 (58:12)
Truth always ⁓

Speaker 1 (58:16)
Yeah, otherwise it wouldn't be truth.

point.

Speaker 2 (58:22)
It always has opposition. Like, we don't ever fight falsehood. We don't fight falsehood.

Speaker 1 (58:34)
it.

Speaker 2 (58:35)
Nope.

Speaker 1 (58:37)
Mm.

Speaker 2 (58:38)
So I won't even add nothing else to that. It's just, yeah, we don't fight in lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (58:43)
That's that's yeah, I mean to keep it

Speaker 2 (58:47)
No one's outraged.

No one's no one's marching for for like things that are just in our society staples in our society staples that are directly connected to the tearing down of anything holy. We do not on any consistent basis. We do not

Oppose those things. Mm-hmm Like current events, so you remember Shannon sharp with the whole Scandal, right? So Shannon sharp big-name football player Hall of Famer blah blah ⁓ You know, he's on first take

Speaker 1 (59:26)
you

Speaker 2 (59:36)
He's got his nightcap thing going on. He's, you know, blowing up everywhere. And then he's got the OnlyFans girl. ⁓ Scandal. He exposes that she's on OnlyFans. And because he understood that they were going to come out with the video of, I guess, them having sex. And he wanted to get ahead of it. ⁓

And everyone had their opinion about everything. I mean, people had their opinion about, you know, Shannon shouldn't be messing with girls that age. Shannon shouldn't be, you know, with the money he has, he should be blah, blah, blah, blah. ⁓ How you gonna mess up your deal with ESPN? ⁓ You know, like all of all the major push media criticism videos that were created.

Everything that had to do with everything TMZ coverage everything. Did you notice everything was? ⁓ Shannon shouldn't be Shannon shouldn't do Shannon shouldn't have and I'm not here to say any of those opinions are right or wrong But but my point to going back to what I just said about the opposition

Elite, maybe you've seen it. So I am humble enough to say if I'm wrong, I'm okay with being wrong. So if you've seen the videos or the coverage, let me know. But in all of this, I've not seen a single sentence, a tweet written with that poor girl.

exposing her body on OnlyFans. That poor...

in her own right. Innocent, precious.

woman Some may say child

exposing her physical body to the majority would be men. You may have some lesbians in here that might subscribe to her OnlyFans, but come on, let's be real. 99 % are men. No one covered that. No one said, my God, can someone go to her rescue? Can someone pray for this young lady who feels that it's necessary?

Speaker 1 (1:01:53)
to

Speaker 2 (1:02:19)
that she create an OnlyFans account and that she expose her body to the world. No one's talking about the scars that she has and the scars that she's accumulating because of the constant exposure of her body. God didn't create a woman to cut a camera on and to expose her body in exchange for money.

There's powerfully wrong with that dynamic. And that young child is suffering. She may never say it. She may, I'm getting mine. You know how women, I'm getting mine. All this junk, all this foolishness that we come up with to try to make everything okay, which is a bunch of BS. Everything is not okay. But I didn't see nothing that went to her rescue.

Speaker 1 (1:03:04)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1:03:17)
All everything was on how wrong either he was or what he should be doing financially or how he's messing up these deals or he's gonna lose his endorsement deals or everything was financial everything was how's this older man messing up and screwing up? I Didn't hear one story about how is this this young girl doing? Where's her soul?

Speaker 1 (1:03:40)
you

Speaker 2 (1:03:43)
Where's her emotional state? Where's her mental health? So my point is, we don't send opposition to things that are blatantly evil in our society. Pornography is blatantly evil. No opposition. We've made it legal.

We've made pornography legal and we've made OnlyFans legal ways that now these young women can independently create pornography and get paid. And we say, yeah, that's normal. That's a part of life. Yeah. Like we talk about OnlyFans like it's just a part of the culture. Yeah, OnlyFans. Yeah. We don't stop and say, my God, women are prostituting themselves. No uproar. It's OnlyFans.

We just, it's so casual. We just so casual. And that's my point. But we'll take the Bible. All these contradictions. How come God, man? Come on, God. Why come on, God? The same people that's doing that? How come you ain't on Instagram saying, sister, put some clothes on? How come we not on there saying, brother, stop creating that polluted music and killing...

killing young men's minds before they can even get started and sending them to the club every week where they getting shot up by the thousands and they killing off their own. We're not doing none of that. But we'll grab that Bible and we'll nitpick. So I had to check myself because I was that guy. So I'm just in a sense spilling out my own. Right? I was that guy.

Speaker 1 (1:05:28)
Because I

Speaker 2 (1:05:30)
Like how, and I had to take a step back and say, how dare I nitpick at contradictions, which I don't even know if they are contradictions. Man wrote it. And just because I don't understand it doesn't mean that it's not real, that it's not true. I don't understand why the sun is hot. Doesn't make it any less true. I just don't understand it. So how come this Bible just couldn't be real and true? It just be that you just don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (1:05:50)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1:05:59)
And your lack of understanding is totally okay Get what you can get from it dog and keep it pushing. Yeah Don't figure it out Open that sucker up get what you can get and keep it pushing Do that. or you could keep worrying about the contradictions. How is that working for you? It wasn't working for me so

Speaker 1 (1:06:08)
Yeah.

You could

Speaker 2 (1:06:25)
I know that was a long-winded long answer, bro. It just gives me riles. We get all under, we get all fired up about these things, but it's like we see human violence happening every day on Instagram. And don't say a word. We just keep it scrolling. We don't say a word.

Speaker 1 (1:06:29)
No, that's

And I

That's so true.

Speaker 2 (1:06:53)
I don't know how many and I'll do it sometimes, but sometimes I'll like stay clear from it and just like hit the little, the little button up at the top where it says like hide this content or like don't look at this content no more. And they'll stop putting it like in my feed, but, there's been times where I like, you know, you just scrolling and you, see the butt and she have dressed and I'll just put in the comments, you know, something like, ⁓ I know.

I've said it before, you don't have to do this or you're worth more than this. Just something. Or, know, God created you for more. I don't know if they read them. I don't know if they care, you know, because the majority of the other comments are, you're so beautiful. you so sexy. I want to do this and do that to you. ⁓ Or they put some emoji or something. You know, so it's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (1:07:47)
I'm sure they do.

I'm sure they read the comments because that's what they're there for. That's And that's why they're posting it, to see the comments, to see what people are thinking about them. That's true. So they try to sit there and say, I don't read that. I don't care. I don't see how many likes I have. Yes, you do.

Speaker 2 (1:08:09)
Yes,

you do. At that level, you do. You do. You do. So I, you know, I...

Speaker 1 (1:08:14)
Because

in the next moment, they over there is sitting on a podcast and they saying like people downgrade them, people, you know, talk bad about them because of what they come on. It's it's. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's the point of the that's part are the main one of the main points of having Instagram. Yeah. It's to get the feedback of what people think of you. And it's.

Speaker 2 (1:08:30)
of

Yeah,

Speaker 1 (1:08:43)
It's normal, it's natural, and it's okay to admit that. You want the attention. You want the attention. it's tough, it's a thin line. Because some things you do want to get to be heard, things you want to be ⁓ put out there.

Speaker 2 (1:08:46)
Right.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:09:09)
So to speak and like like for instance for what we're doing Yeah, these are things Not to not to have likes but for us to want to help someone. Yeah to help me and I even heard in another podcast they were saying that men need help Men men need help and their masculinity has been diminished

Speaker 2 (1:09:09)
.

Yeah, totally hijacked.

Speaker 1 (1:09:37)
It's been diminished throughout these times, especially right now, how men don't feel appreciated, men don't feel, you know, wanted. ⁓ women now have gone to the point of where now they're having the two jobs.

Speaker 2 (1:09:55)
Man, wow.

Speaker 1 (1:09:58)
Now they're having to be all and do all that they don't need the man anymore. You know? And now it's back, it's backflipped to the point where now men are feeling not needed.

Speaker 2 (1:10:06)
Yeah. Yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (1:10:20)
They're not filling their worth. And the only thing left for us to do is to get the money, is to get the bag. That's the only way that a woman will want you. If you not making as much as they making, you can't mess with them. You not on my

Speaker 2 (1:10:22)
Mm-hmm.

Man. Yep.

Man, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:10:46)
So now we're such, women is at the top right here. And even in jobs, if you even notice, I notice, I don't know, this is just my opinion, but I've noticed that it's even harder for, now it's even extra harder for a black man or a man of color to get a job.

It was already there. It was already established that it was hard. Yeah. But now it's even more harder because now women have now they upfront. OK, it's not it's no longer just the white man or whatever. You know what they say and stuff like that. ⁓ Now it's women at the top because women can do those things that men can.

Speaker 2 (1:11:18)
⁓

huh, ⁓ huh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:11:36)
Yeah. And now they're looking for. And then, of course, is it? It's it's it's a it's a it's a it's a view thing, because these these these men at the top are looking at these women like, oh, yeah, she looked beautiful. She could be on our team. She can she can do us. She can help with us. know. So that's a plus.

Speaker 2 (1:11:56)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they've learned to use their, you know, and I think that was the big transition with the OnlyFans was women. Like you're saying, I've seen that progression where we came up. We came up with an out of well, because you're 40, what 40, 40, 41. So I'm 48. So maybe you were in that time frame, but.

Speaker 1 (1:12:20)
one.

Speaker 2 (1:12:27)
When I was coming up, us coming up, the female rapper was intelligent. Like it was the MC Lights. was the ⁓ Eve from Rough Riders. was ⁓ Queen Latifah. Right? They were standing for causes, intelligent, wordplay, lyrics. Now...

Speaker 1 (1:12:43)
Tifa.

Speaker 2 (1:12:52)
the this new wave of female artists and like urban artists. I mean, I don't know if they can't or can't. All I know is when I'm when I'm here. All I see is they got this little bounce that they do and then they turn around and. They twerk. Yeah, yeah, it's it's how sexy can I dress?

Speaker 1 (1:13:14)
next video.

Speaker 2 (1:13:21)
and how can I turn around and, you know, make an Astalion? you know, I don't know all their different names, but like all of the most popular ones, they showing that body, they showing that butt. And that's what the videos are, that's what the live performances are. So this women empowerment is more so, oh y'all like looking at us.

Speaker 1 (1:13:34)
Yep.

Speaker 2 (1:13:47)
⁓ y'all like fantasizing about us. ⁓ okay. That's what y'all, okay, cool. We gonna use that to get that bread. To your point. It's like, ⁓ okay. That's what y'all going. And we're dumb enough to pay for it. Like, yeah, of course. Yeah, sure, yeah. I'll subscribe, sure. You know, it's like we so...

Yeah. my God. Yeah, we're we're yeah, we just yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:14:22)
And men are lost in this

time. It's not being appreciated. And this guy says something that his son came home ⁓ and brought his report card home. And he had C's and B's, maybe one A or something like that. And the dad was like,

What is this? Why are you why are you? Why are you just being average like you can be better? Okay, you know you can you can do better. You're better than this and the kid goes That's that's good for a man

Speaker 2 (1:15:17)
for a man.

Speaker 1 (1:15:18)
for a boy. For a boy, that's good. Like, being average, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (1:15:21)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:15:30)
like it's okay.

Speaker 2 (1:15:33)
Yeah, almost like, what are you talking about that? Like, what are you? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:15:38)
Like it's amazing how the mindset of men have changed. So it's okay to be average. It's okay to be, we we all right.

That's that's that was a eye opener right there. I was like, wow. And if if we go through life just maintaining just being OK. It's I and that's where I had my awakening, where I was like, I'm not OK with this.

Speaker 2 (1:16:10)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:16:21)
⁓ I can't be okay with this. I can't live the rest of my life like this. And they said, ⁓ the most loneliest people are men over 60. 60 and over. Because they don't know how to form relationships.

Speaker 2 (1:16:38)
Yep.

Speaker 1 (1:16:46)
They don't know how to keep relationships, keep friendships.

Speaker 2 (1:16:51)
I

can see that.

Speaker 1 (1:16:54)
Yeah.

Because they keep things to themselves. They don't talk about things. They don't know how to approach other men. How to be a friend. How to take time for other people. ⁓ That's it's that was crazy. I'm like, man. ⁓

And you know, women, they, know, they get along. They know how to con convo. And, know, they they know how to how to pick up a friend. You know, another woman, they they hit it off the back real fast. You know, with men is kind of touchy feely. We got to we got to figure it out first. Yeah. See what they like. OK. We are we on the same page. OK, cool, cool, cool, cool. All right. Let's hang out. You know. And then it's hard for us to even hang out even at that.

Speaker 2 (1:17:50)
Why do you, so a question to you, why do you, because that's interesting, just the things that you listed, not able to make friendships, not able to keep friendships, not able to really reach out, ask for help, make connections, have these conversations, why do you think that is?

Speaker 1 (1:18:09)
I think it's a multiple things. ⁓ One of the well, the first thing that came up is pride. OK, I think it's just, you know, men are well, he ain't talking to me. I ain't got to talk to him. You know, he ain't talking to me first. I ain't got to say nothing to him. You know, it's it's a it's a it's a masculine thing that that that that we kind of take overboard, that we kind of like.

let it take over our mindset where we don't want to talk to other people. We don't need, we don't need them in our lives. We don't need that. I can do this by myself.

Speaker 2 (1:18:55)
Let me ask you, you got your Bible app? Can you, or not even your Bible app, can you just look up like in Safari? Because I don't know the address in the Bible. But if you could just look up, ⁓ just type in like a Bible verse, show yourself friendly. I want to make a point or something.

Speaker 1 (1:18:57)
Yeah.

Okay, that's Proverbs 18.24.

Speaker 2 (1:19:26)
read that proper

okay read that I'm gonna just kind of going back I'm gonna tie that back into what we're talking about with the Bible cut 18 important

Speaker 1 (1:19:35)
Okay.

Okay, one who has unreliable friends soon comes to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

Speaker 2 (1:19:53)
⁓ for when you typed in, show yourself friendly.

Speaker 1 (1:19:56)
Yes. ⁓ A man that has friends show himself friendly is found in Proverbs 1824.

Speaker 2 (1:20:05)
18. Okay, so and then and then when you went to 1824

Speaker 1 (1:20:10)
Yeah, so verse 24, the NIV, one who has unreliable friends soon comes to ruin, but there's a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

Speaker 2 (1:20:12)
Okay, what does it say?

and you're in the Bible app right now. And then what does it continue to say?

Speaker 1 (1:20:28)
That's the end of the chapter. That's the last verse of the chapter 18.

Speaker 2 (1:20:35)
⁓

maybe is one of the translations.

Speaker 1 (1:20:44)
⁓ Let me see if I change it to the King James. ⁓

Speaker 2 (1:20:50)
Or if you type in, you know, what's King James?

Speaker 1 (1:20:54)
a man that hath friends must shoe himself friendly.

Speaker 2 (1:21:00)
say it again? Okay, there it is.

Speaker 1 (1:21:02)
A man that hath friends must shoe himself friendly.

Speaker 2 (1:21:08)
Okay. So that's where, you know, we get into the, you know, various translations. Yeah. So we don't want to go down that path, but the way that it's translated, and that's just kind of going back to the Bible, just to make this quick point. So you were saying that, you know, men have a hard time making the friends, the connecting, seeing how, how we are, pride. So going back to the Bible,

This is one of the points. I didn't know where the address was, but as you were speaking the Bible verse, because I've read the Bible over these last 25 years, I knew that there was a scripture that when I read it, there was a translation that said, you want a friend, show yourself friendly. The point is, is...

Over the last, man, even dating back, we've been in, yeah, even before that, because it started back in Toledo, but it spans even to present day to day. When I became a Christian, it was men along my path.

man after man after man after man after man and then I began to call them mentors in different areas of my life. My point is is that along the way one of the common threads in my formation and my transformation was having a man educate and mentor me in a given area.

They may have just seen themselves as my friend or my brother in Christ. But I began to see them as men who were pouring into me sharing things that I didn't know. So if it's Rusty, he taught me finances. If it's Tony, he taught me how to work out. ⁓ If it's you, you taught me how to care beyond myself. Like I pour into you more than I pour into anybody. So it's like a you.

In your own way, it's like you're teaching me how to really give a damn about somebody like really care like I really Truly authentically love you like I truly care about you. You know i'm saying like I really pray For you every day and I care about where you are and I care about Your growth and your development. ⁓ if it's pk He taught me literally bible foundations. He taught me how to read the word of god. ⁓ I could just go on and on and

on Pastor Dwayne, he taught me that it's okay to be a pastor because every pastor don't look the same. I mean, I got a million testimonies, dude. Rudy Carrasco taught me how to evangelize, taught me how to be in the community, taught me how to be next to people that didn't look or sound like me. I mean, I got a million stories. My point is this. The Bible taught me that if I want a friend, be friendly.

If you're not in the Bible and you don't get that verse and you're a man who's over 60 or a man who's, you know, you got that pride thing going on and it's hard for you to make connections. It's hard for you to have ⁓ other men in your life that are actually caring about you, pouring into you, men who are looking out for you, who want the best interests, you know, or who have your best interests in mind. Well, that came from the Bible.

So that that so my point is we can obsess about the contradictions and i'm not saying that they're not there i'm just saying At some point. Okay, we got contradictions or we got things that we don't understand Yes, absolutely But how much time are you going to allocate to that? When your time is limited and finite and precious You only got so much of it

much time are you going to allocate towards being upset and confused with the contradictions versus saying there is some very good life lessons in this Bible? And one of them is if I want a better quality of life and I want my life to be surrounded by good men that can support me and actually have my best interests in mind, one of the things I can do is I can listen to the Bible that tells me that if I want a friend,

Speaker 1 (1:25:15)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1:25:33)
show myself friendly. And so one thing that I always did, man, was I just took people out to coffee. Coffee, breakfast, lunch. Hey man, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Hey man, can I buy you lunch? Can I buy you this? And I would just invite them, have a meal, pick their brain, and they would begin to share. And they would begin, and the friendship would begin to...

Speaker 1 (1:25:56)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1:26:00)
to be formed. anyway, I was just trying to tie that back to the value of the Bible and how

That's one example of how my life changed was literally reading these things and saying, ⁓ that makes sense. I want that. Let me apply that. And it actually worked. Yeah. So to anyone who's listening, it's like, I'm not saying that the Bible doesn't have contradictions and that it's not confusing and that it won't drive you up a wall because it can and it will. But there's there comes a point where you also can make a decision to just.

take the wisdom that it contains and apply it to your life. And go on and just have a better life. ⁓

Speaker 1 (1:26:44)
Yeah. And

what do you so. You know, those things that we get confused about that we, you know, dwell over, stress over things like that, ⁓ you know, in in. I guess it's Paul's situation where he said that there was this storm ⁓ that he wants, you know, God to get rid of. And then Jesus says.

My grace. Sufficient. ⁓

Speaker 2 (1:27:15)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:27:20)
We have these thorns that these things that you know we're we're seeing like that come across us that we have these these urges these ⁓ these these things that we know that could not be good for us. ⁓

Why do you, I've heard this question of why does God give us these thorns that he won't take away? And then when we, when we indulge in it, ⁓ we're guilty of, or we feel that we're being punished for. ⁓ And that's part of the reason why.

people don't follow Christianity, you know, because they don't want to feel guilty. They don't want to feel like, ⁓ I did this. And why is it a bad thing for me to indulge in these things?

Speaker 2 (1:28:32)
Yeah, man. I'm reminded, going back to another brother, telling you each one teach one boy. I'm reminded of my mindset coach. Shout out to Josh Guerrero. ⁓ He taught me a principle that I'll never forget.

I was going through a coaching certification and he taught me, and we were talking about emotional intelligence, emotions. And the principle was don't eliminate, integrate. In other words, sometimes people see emotions as bad. I don't wanna be angry, I wanna lose my anger, I wanna go to anger management. There's nothing wrong with anger.

It can be used in inappropriate ways, but anger in and of itself is not inherently bad, but it can be used in ⁓ inappropriate way. Same with those urges. ⁓ Let me handle the urge or let, no, let me first start with the easiest one, the guilt of it.

Why did God give me this thing? I've got these urges and then if I indulge, I feel guilty. I feel like I'm being punished. I think the I'm being punished part is more culture, man.

Unless you are hearing the voice of God telling you I am now punishing you, right? Like I'll be taking it to that degree like are you actually hearing the voice of God? Telling you literally I am now punishing you. No That's culture. That's church. That's the preacher man. That's you just You're creating the illusion that you're being punished because you heard it enough Unless God is speaking directly to you then stop trying to

say God's punishing you. That's make believe that's fairy tale. Okay, that's number one. The second thing about the urge is ⁓ no, so staying on the topic of the feeling punished right that that that guilt feeling that comes over you that oaky feeling like ⁓ I just did something I wasn't supposed to do. You have to understand what you don't have to understand. You don't have to do anything, but I would offer for your understanding.

Let's say for example, you were about to cross the street and you saw a car speeding down the street. Like you were about to step a foot into the street and you see the car come barreling down. What do you do?

Speaker 1 (1:31:08)
Stop.

Speaker 2 (1:31:09)
And what do you feel?

Speaker 1 (1:31:12)
⁓

I'ma feel tense, I'ma feel scared, nervous.

Speaker 2 (1:31:19)
Yeah, it protected you. The fear, the nervousness, the tenseness, it protected you. Imagine if you were in that same scenario about to cross the street and God magically removed tenseness, fear, and nervousness. You were absolutely fearless. you... Car, run you over. You'd be dead in the street. You would be dead.

because you had no fear. Because I'm fearless. So you step into the middle of street, car coming down 90 miles an hour, running you over, you're dead. Those, I just did something. I feel that's for your protection. A married man, and I can speak as one, 25 years, celebrating this September. Yeah, man, thank you. 25 years married. When I have sex with my wife, I have no guilt.

Zero guilt, When I sleep with my wife, I don't feel guilty. As much as I sleep with my wife, as much as we have intercourse, I never feel guilty. Why is that? Because I'm doing it the way it was designed to be done. If I cheat on my wife, I'm going to feel ooky. What did I just do? ⁓

I'm scared. I'm nervous. I feel tense. Something's wrong. Yeah, dude. That's because you stepped out of the parameters for which it was created. So when someone says, why you give me these urges and they make me feel guilty? He gave you the urge because sex is good. In Genesis, it said increase, multiply, fill the earth.

Sex is good. Sex is God. You were made for intercourse. You were made to come together. You were made to do that. Within a parameter that was healthy and beneficial. When you do it in a way that ain't healthy and beneficial, you feel some type of way. That feeling some type of way is to protect you.

It's telling you, stop doing that.

I used to have girlfriends, sex outside of marriage, coming up.

This is not always the case. But all of them women that I slept with before getting married, it all went bad. Like, they either betrayed me, slept around on me, did me wrong, we broke up for whatever reason. Like, it wasn't about nothing. Like, it just went south. I get married, and, you know...

This this this intercourse this this this sexual experience over the last 25 years because I've even been asked by guys, you know, it's like man, don't don't he get older like like, you know, you sleep with the same woman. Don't don't you want some variety? No, I honestly know I do. I don't know what to tell you. I do not know what to tell you, but no, I actually don't. I don't get 25 years and we were sleeping together before that. So 27 years together. No.

Never got tired of it. Never wanted never now do I struggle or have I struggled or do I get yes do all of that man stuff? Yes, I'm I'm not on here telling you that I'm Superman and that I'm no no no no no no I'm tempted by the same stuff pornography gets me Instagram gets me all that every all of that stuff I deal with Every day. Yeah. Yeah, what what what I'm saying is is that the the

The urge that God's giving you, the urge to want sex, enjoy sex, sleep with a woman, to have intercourse, that desire, that urge, that passion, He gave it to you because it was intended for you to enjoy and to contribute to the population of the earth.

What we're dealing with is how come I can't control it or how come I do it in a way that's not beneficial and then I feel some type of way. That's to protect you. The bad feeling, the guilt, the feeling like someone's gonna find out, all of that other stuff that comes up. That is to, as I was taught by my coach, thank God for guilt. Thank God.

for fear. Thank God that it doesn't feel right because that's protecting you. What if having sex outside of marriage with every woman under the sun brought no guilt whatsoever? At some point you're get HIV.

At some point you're gonna catch something else. Back in my day it was crabs, was syphilis, whatever it was. You're gonna catch something or you're gonna mess with the wrong one. And something crazy gonna happen with that one. Like, it's not gonna go good. It's not gonna go good. You keep doing that and it's not gonna go good. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, no judgment, bro. I ain't gonna judge you, dog. But I am gonna tell you from experience as a man, it's not gonna go good.

So the guilt is trying to ward you off of doing that and trying to discourage you from continuing in that because that road is going to end up somewhere that you really don't want to be. Where you really want to be is in the sanctuary of a beautiful marriage where you guys can sleep together in the same bed every night, love each other, ⁓ never get tired of each other, and never experience guilt or shame because...

you're within God's design for that thing, for that activity. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (1:37:35)
That's real good. that reminds me of a word that I came across ⁓ or a process that we have in our bodies. ⁓ It's called homeostasis. You ever heard of that?

Speaker 2 (1:37:51)
Hmm.

I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (1:37:56)
So basically, ⁓ it's a process in our body where we can't get too high or too low. it basically, that's, so when, say for instance, we take a drug or have our first shot of alcohol, how the high, your body gets this high or this feeling. ⁓ And basically it,

Speaker 2 (1:38:03)
Okay.

Okay.

Speaker 1 (1:38:25)
intensifies you is like, wow, like that was, that was bomb. Or having sex, you You're like, ⁓ wow, this is, this is, you know, if you stay at that height, your body cannot, cannot hold that. And if you stay at that high for so long, your body will die. You would die.

Because you have it's too much. Okay, so you have this homeostasis where your brain balances you and It balances you it brings you back down. So that's the reason why you have a hangover after drinking Yeah, it balances you so God put that in your body to balance you That's that's interesting

Speaker 2 (1:39:16)
That's...

Man. I mean, he thought of everything. What think? I'm tell you.

Speaker 1 (1:39:21)
Everything. Every.

That's it to see how the body works, to see how the brain works. The littlest things. That like we're finding out through science. And it's like how or why?

Speaker 2 (1:39:30)
covered every bass.

you

Speaker 1 (1:39:43)
Did we get this?

Speaker 2 (1:39:44)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:39:47)
That's

so amazing of the littlest things that we have in our bodies, how God has just put it in us and made us who we are. Just you're amazing in yourself, in your own self. And we have to be able to understand that and take it.

It's not, that's not being narcissistic, that's not being selfish. You are capable of these things. And that's where I want.

My goal is to have men understand their their worth. ⁓ And I think we both have that that goal is to show men their worth. It's to show that, you know, someone cares. And it's OK to be vulnerable. It's OK to open up. It's OK to express. ⁓ And I think that's what our platform is about.

and what we want men to think about. That it's okay. It's okay to express. And it's very hard for us that we've gone through this life and we can't seem to get it out. So I believe and I hope and I pray that we have that.

We give that platform to men to show them that, we're here. We're here to hear, just to listen. And just like you said, you want to listen. I want to hear it. I want to hear your story. I want to hear your struggles. I want to hear your pain.

Speaker 2 (1:41:50)
Yep.

Speaker 1 (1:41:56)
And it's amazing to hear other men's point of views. And I think that's where we're headed and where we want to go.

Speaker 2 (1:42:07)
Yeah.

Definitely. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 1 (1:42:14)
We need to get these men on track, man.

Speaker 2 (1:42:16)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:42:18)
We're losing it man.

We're losing the battle and it's something that, you know, I don't want my son, you know, to grow up in that hibernation of life. Keeping it all inside and not being able to express himself in the right way. The right way and the wrong way.

You know, I want my son to and even my daughter right now, even though she thinks she grown at 15. But, you know, I want her to be able to express herself and to be able to be open. I think that's that held me back. I thought I was supposed to keep everything inside and not tell no one, you know, keep everything a secret.

Speaker 2 (1:42:55)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:43:20)
And that's pretty much what got me in trouble.

You know, so I've learned to express what I want to express, be open to what I want to be open to. And sometimes I'm Not sometimes, a lot of times. We all are. I'm wrong about my emotions. I'm wrong about my opinions. I'm wrong about my assumptions. You know, I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (1:43:35)
you

Speaker 1 (1:43:54)
And it's okay to be wrong though. That's what we have to understand and what I have to understand. It's okay to be wrong.

pain. That's hard.

Speaker 2 (1:44:12)
Yeah, and that's his own show. Yeah, I know we're running out of time for this one. But that's his. Yeah, that's that's his own show. Why is it so hard for men to to be wrong? Yeah, sounds like a good episode. Yeah. But let's do a time check. Where we are right now. I think we're at a time. OK, cool, man. All right.

Speaker 1 (1:44:21)
Yeah.

Definitely.

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (1:44:38)
Well, listen, maybe we could need to go ahead and wrap it on up man, but this has been a good one and Definitely as with every episode man. We hope and pray that it's added value. Yes listeners value to the watchers and ⁓ as always ⁓ You know, we want to we want to say to anyone who's watching I don't know what camera we on right now, but who's ever watching who's ever listening? ⁓ Questions questions questions

down in the comments, questions, ⁓ down in the description, there's links where you can send in your questions. Questions, comments, feedback, all of it is good, needed, wanted. So interact with us, man, holler at us. Tell us where we hit it, tell us where we missed it. No offense taken.

⁓ But we want to just be of service man, so let us know what this episode did for you if it did anything and ⁓ we'll continue to push out this content and we'll continue to push out this this platform ⁓ in service of men who are in search of it. ⁓ It'll hit home for some.

It'd be a total miss for others. We can't control that. All we can do is control showing up. we're here for you. We love you guys. We're praying for you guys. We believe in you guys. yeah, man, until next time again, write in, text in, all that in the link now.

You can chop it up a million different ways, but let us know what you think and we'll be sure to reply and to continue to create content based upon that feedback.

Speaker 1 (1:46:30)
Absolutely. And one question for you audience. ⁓ If you had one question to ask God, what would it be? Something to think about. Definitely, brother.

Speaker 2 (1:46:46)
Yeah,

yeah, and we'll include that one in the next episode. Yeah, man, always good stuff, man. Appreciate this, Love you too, man. Appreciate

Speaker 1 (1:46:51)
Yeah, definitely. Always a pleasure, my man. Love you,

Speaker 2 (1:46:59)
Cool.