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Hi and welcome to the Becoming Trauma-Informed podcast, where we help you understand how your past painful experiences are affecting your current reality and how you can shift those so you can create your desired future. I'm Dr Lee, and both myself and our team at the Institute for Trauma and Psychological Safety are excited to support you on your journey. We talk about all the things on this podcast. No topic gets left uncovered. So extending a content warning to you before we get started if you notice yourself getting activated while listening, invitation to take care of yourself and to pause, skip ahead a bit or just check out another episode, Let's dive in. Hi everyone, Welcome to this week's episode.
Speaker 2:I am really delighted to have a special guest with us this week, June K Collins, and we're going to have a really cool conversation, interesting conversation around some topics that I think are really necessary to be talked about and also, depending on who in our audience is listening to, this could feel really triggering. So while we have a content warning before all of our episodes, I just want to put an extra one here for everyone. Today We are going to be talking about child loss and what life looks like as a parent after that happens. So be gentle with yourself, as you're listening and we're going to get started. So hi, June, Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to be here Awesome.
Speaker 2:So I like to ask people why do you do what you do? What do you do And what lights you up about it?
Speaker 1:Okay, So what I do is coach other women who have lost a child, and I started that after my own loss of my son. So basically, when I was starting out on my journey, i didn't know, i felt so alone. I felt like I was like the only person that was going through it that understood my loss. So basically what I did was I started reading everything, and that's when I got into neuro linguistics and just all this different types of therapies. And when I started doing that, then I started, i say, fixing myself, learning how to deal with it. Because whenever, whenever anybody has a trauma, you also have all these demons that come up from your past that maybe you're not proud of. So I had those demons, too, that I was trying to deal with. At the same time I was trying to deal with my loss. So I started learning about that. Well, after I learned about that, then I was like wait a minute, i'm not alone.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of women out there that think that they are alone in their loss. And obviously I speak with women who have lost children, because obviously I'm jaded a child loss, because I only know what it's like to lose a child. And then I just started from there and it was everybody has Facebook friends and they have Instagram friends and you would learn of their child loss And you would look oh well, that person lost a child too, and that person And I just started talking to people during their initial loss and that's what started it, and now it's I'm coaching women that have lost a child. So that's kind of where it came from And it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just a drive And I think it's because you feel so alone and it's so taboo to talk about child loss. Like everybody's. Like, do not talk about child loss, you just have to learn how to deal with it. And I think that's where a lot of people think that they're alone in it, because of the fact that everybody's like I don't want to talk about it. It's out of the natural life cycle. So just bringing it to light you know it just excites me And you know, just letting a woman know that your child's still in your life and that they're still part of your story even after they're gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just enjoy doing it And it brings me light And I think that I'm actually helping in the world and helping these women and helping even the person that hasn't lost the child understand it more.
Speaker 2:Oh, you said so many things And I want to respond to, So I'm really glad you brought up the taboo piece of this and like how it feels like this is outside of the natural order of life, because my background is as a nurse practitioner and I worked with adults primarily.
Speaker 2:But you know, one of the things that we learn is, up until very recently, you know, child loss wasn't that rare of a thing. That was actually part of the natural life cycle and like, thank goodness we now have so many great modern technologies that allow our kiddos to grow and thrive and have that higher chance of surviving. And I think there's something about it that is, oh my gosh. If I talk about this, if I acknowledge that this is a thing that happens, then I have to think about the fact that it could happen to me And that I don't think it's done from this place of not caring or not wanting to validate this person's experience. It's and I'm curious about what you've seen because you know a lot more than I do, but I can imagine that it's more of a. I want to avoid talking about this because I don't want to think about the fact that this could be my reality as well.
Speaker 1:Correct. I think you hit it exactly right In my experience and I always tell these women you're going to lose a bunch of people, you're going to gain a bunch of other people and they're going to be your biggest cheerleaders through it. And nobody wants a mom to suffer Like nobody can understand it they say, if you're not living it And I can explain it because I'm remarried now and I can explain it to my husband And he feels it in his heart but he doesn't know exactly because his son for a previous marriage he still has, and then we have our daughter together And I think that the reason I know I lost a lot of friends that they had kids at the time too, whether they were young kids or they were older kids. But they didn't and I've talked to them since then but they didn't know what to say And a lot of times with child loss it's not what you say, it's just being there, because I can remember people coming over and I wouldn't say anything. They would just be there with me and I didn't feel alone. But I think a lot of people were scared that they didn't know what to say and they didn't want to say the wrong things. They didn't want to upset me.
Speaker 1:The fact is is that when you're living with child loss, like my son's birthday and death day, like I, it's not like I forget about it. It's going to come around every single year And I know the week before I'm heck on wheels to deal with. And that goes for his birthday and his death day, because I have both, but sometimes I only have one day. But we still remember And I always tell my husband I'm always like I just want you to acknowledge that you know the day they happened. You don't have to say anything, we don't have to have a long conversation And he does, it's just usually a text message hey, just want to let you know that I'm thinking about you today And I know what he's talking about. And I have an ex-boss that still to this day, 11 years later, does the same thing. His death day. He always texts me and says, hey, i'm thinking about you And people don't know what it means, except me and obviously the people that text me.
Speaker 1:But yeah, i think they're scared. I think a lot of it is they're scared and they don't. We're always taught you know it's just like you're going to. You know you're a baby, then you're going to get older and then you're going to eventually go through this whole cycle And when you pull something out, it just freaks people out It really does, and they don't know what to think And they think of their own children and how they couldn't deal with it. But the thing is is like and I tell all the women like we weren't given a choice, We got to learn how to deal with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So lives aren't meant to be living miserable for the rest of our lives. You know I try to explain to them like that, but it's just, it's something we have to deal with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i love what you're saying about. Most people just need your presence. I don't need you to fix it. There's no fixing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like There is after a trauma of that Depth and magnitude and I I want to be really clear about this like Whether it is a baby that you didn't even realize was growing in you and then you lost it, or if, if you're 80 and your baby is, you know, 62 and they pass away like, like it's your, that's your baby, yeah Yeah, and there's no fixing that.
Speaker 1:No, there's not. And I know, i know some women And I consider if you were ever pregnant and you had a baby inside of you, your trauma is going to be just like me. At two and a half, my son was two and a half when he he passed away to you know someone that's that's had more life experiences. It's all the same that that trauma is still there. You just have more memories of them. I guess you could say to help you along with then someone that miscarries, you know and you know they.
Speaker 1:Only I don't know how much you you know about child loss, but when they're doing all these statistics, they only do it between a certain age. So they're seeing 24 weeks to I think it's like 26 years old. Yeah, that's only statistics that they do. So basically, what about all those women that lost them early on in their pregnancy? Yeah, that still counts, you know. And there's so many of us out there And I was actually talking to a mom the other day. She miscarried twice And she was like, oh well, it's not the same thing as you And yes, it is You still had trauma with it. There's still trauma wrapped around it.
Speaker 2:I was watching this episode. It was TikTok and it was a podcast and I don't remember or you know, a vlog or whatever. I feel like I shouldn't know what those are called, seeing as how we have one, but you know, and it was a famous man And I cannot remember who he was, and he was talking about his experience with his partner And what I thought was so fascinating was is he's like I refuse to say that she miscarried, because even the language that we choose, right, like you lost, not, they were lost. Yeah, the baby was miscarried, not she miscarried the baby, right, because I think that that's a big, big part of this.
Speaker 2:I worked in critical care and cancer hematology for the majority of my nursing career And one of the things I think that was so huge was when somebody would pass, that it wasn't expected. One of the biggest things was guilt on the people who were behind of like what could I have done differently? Like what you know, there's so much of personal responsibility for the loss And regardless of how much personal responsibility probably should be there for the loss, yeah, so I think, even like, looking at this from a trauma, sensitive perspective of like how are we describing this experience, and not just for women, but also for, you know, partners, because I think that And I'm again, i'm not speaking from experience, but I think that there is, as a mom of three kids, nobody can feel about them the way that I feel about them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like they grew inside me, like nobody can have that relationship with them. And there are other humans in these kids lives, yeah, that cared about them and raised them and like rocks them in the night and like did things or, you know, like talk to them in while they were still in the belly, like there's. There's other humans that also are like what could I have done? Could I have done something differently? So I just think that there's um. We get to recognize those humans as well And we get to validate that very special. No other person has relationship between The, the human that births that baby. And also we get to like, really look at our language around, how we're describing this, because You know, i think that's a really important thing, and I think that's a really important thing.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a really important thing Because nobody needs more blame in the situation, right, and I think I think you're absolutely right And I can remember When it first happened, just trying to process it And I'm in a fog. Yeah, i can remember processing it like What could I have done differently? What happened? I thought every I did everything right And I thought this and what if I would have been?
Speaker 1:Because my son was special needs, because of the other trauma I had in my brain And I was like I'm going to be fine, I'm going to be fine. It was crazy, That was totally traumatic for me And he had a lot of brain injuries because I had a complete placental abruption. I wouldn't breathe in. So, you know, I think about we had to get up every night And we had to take shifts because he would wake up in the middle of night because it was special needs And we had a feeding tube into all kinds of things. And so I think about what if? what if I would have been the one that was on call that night? Or what if I would have, you know, had been on call that night?
Speaker 1:And I started, like really early on, putting that in my head. It's sad, but we do it As a mom. We want to blame us If our kid And I've talked to mothers with addicts and I've talked to that end up actually actually overdosing And others with kids that have committed suicide And like the bit, there's so much guilt there. And what if I would have called them? or what if I wouldn't have been that mean to them and told them that I wasn't dealing with addiction anymore? Or what if you know what if I would have gone by their house, Maybe he wouldn't have committed suicide And the mom start to put this blame on them. And because what are we? We're moms, We try to fix everything. Yeah, We have that guilt on it.
Speaker 1:One thing that you mentioned about you know, no one being able to feel it. One thing that I that's kind of crazy and just to throw that out there, like my parents were big into my son's life And I think that's the reason why I'm so happy with it. I think that's the reason why I'm so happy with it And I think that's the reason why I'm so happy with it. Since the beginning. Obviously, they went through the whole personal obstruction with me and his death and everything, And I can remember my mom telling me he's. She said, you know, it was hard enough with Caleb, You know. But then I had my child, which was me That I couldn't help, You know, dealing with my grand kid and then my child, who I want everything in the world to help them. I can't help, I can't fix this, I can't help it. You know I can't help it. But I'm not saying that I'm going to have that side from the grandparents too, that are sitting there and they want to help And there's absolutely they can't fix their child too.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a car for me, for grandparents too. Well, in partners as well. you know, like your partners watching you just in so much pain And they're like I can't, like I'm in pain too, and also I, you know, it's a we. we have a saying at the Institute like there's, there's no pain, olympics, right, and so I'm not going to sit here and say that my pain is the same as yours.
Speaker 2:You know, even even if I'm the partner of the human who's had this child, or the grandparent parent. But you're right, Like there's all of these different types of pain and trauma that are happening around, How in control we feel and how how involved we've been. I'm sitting here just in tears because we have twins.
Speaker 2:And they're going to be 11 in a few weeks And our son had a really serious birth defect when he was born. that we caught in utero And I remember that. you know a twin pregnancy is one thing. Like it already feels, it already feels, yeah, the risk is already higher. I had some chronic illness things going on and had had an issue in a previous pregnancy. So like we're already kind of in that, like everything's going to be fine And I remember 26 week ultrasound.
Speaker 2:talk about trauma. This is how you know it was a traumatic experience. Right, you can just see it And I remember looking at that ultrasound and being like his heart's on the wrong side of his body, like that's not, there's something so wrong, and that moment of like, oh my gosh. And up until that point I had supported thousands of people through that moment, but I had never had that moment myself.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know again not comparing what we went through to what you and a lot of the humans that are listening in that you've helped have gone through But like that was a moment where it was like, oh my, you know, i would do anything to avoid this moment. Yeah, and I think that that's what a lot of people are doing, having probably come up in their brains when they hear stories like this, because it's like I will do anything to avoid thinking about that fear and that amount of pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something that you hit on with your. you. you recognize the problem. you know with your, your son I've done law enforcement for years And the night that my son passed away, obviously we had all the ambulances. I knew all the cops and the EMS and I knew the dispatch we were talking to. But the way they were phrasing things and what they were doing I knew but no one else knew.
Speaker 1:My dad didn't know, my mom didn't know, my husband at the time had no clue And it was little things like we were getting ready to go to the hospital because they had transported him and they were getting ready to transport him And they said y'all got to wait a minute because Alicia is coming.
Speaker 1:You got to talk to Alicia. Well, alicia was an investigator at the time And in our county, whenever there's a child's death, they send an investigator out to talk to the family, so to the parents, just to make sure. You know. It's yeah, yeah, and. And so I already at that moment I'm like, oh my gosh. And then it goes back to how can I fix this? I was trying to still then at the time, trying to fix it, you know, and then when we got to that, when we actually got to the hospital, one of the officers that was working off duty, he was up there and I said, hey, they just brought Caleb in and he automatically shuffled us to a private room And you know, you know, the private room is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I knew my parents didn't know, my husband didn't know at the time, my husband at the time didn't know, and it's just like it puts that added pressure. It put the added pressure on me like how am I going to fix this? This isn't going to be good. I know, they know, but the people, my family, has no clue what's going on yet. And and the same same thing with you, i'm sure it went through your head like oh my gosh, they don't know. I know what's going on. Yeah, and explain this. How are we going to do this better as a mom? How are we going to make this better?
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember looking at the ultrasound tech and I was like am I seeing what I think I'm seeing? And you know they can't say anything, yeah, so she's like I'm going to get the doctor. That sentence right there as an I'm going to get the doctor. And I looked at my husband. He's just like beat, bopping in a seat And I was like this is not, we're not good, we're not good.
Speaker 2:He's talking about, i'm like we're not good, yeah, and but there's also I think that's another layer you're talking about of the responsibility of I've just lost my child and also like I am the most knowledgeable one in the room, yeah, so there's almost this responsibility of like holding that for everyone else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot, of, a lot of us moms were used to holding it like like, i will hold it, i will experience the pain, i will like sacrifice myself so that everyone else is good, and in that moment it's like where there's nothing you can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't, and and you probably were the same way. And I think it's a mom thing, Like we try to be stoic and we try to be strong. And I can remember when we were driving to the hospital I made the comment to my ex-husband. I was like, look, you know, when we get to the hospital, it might, it might, not be that good. I didn't tell him that he had died but and he's like, no, you just got to be positive. You know he was, he's a typical dad, you know, and no one's going to be positive. And then when we got there, obviously they told him, but I was still trying to be strong, I was still trying to hold on to everybody, but when I saw my parents, that was it Like. When I saw my parents, you're their baby right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh, my gosh, i'm just witnessing you so much around that Like I can't even imagine and I'm curious too. You know, what does that do to a marriage? Like what, what does that do to? I know it's significantly impacted your work, but like, how do you go home? My brain can't even fathom going home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So for the marriage part of it, i think there's two different ways that your marriage can go. I've known both sides and obviously I was the divorce side, but I believe that that families that when they were together before the incident happened, that were really strong family groups. they stayed together and they grow together through the loss. Even though men and women deal with it differently. they go through the loss and they are the strongest married couples that I know.
Speaker 1:But for us we were already having a lot of problems because we were still dealing with my son being special needs and trying to figure out what he needed And how do we get him to this doctor appointment and who's on this shift, and we lost our marriage. I think then we were going downhill. So when my, my son passed, when our son passed, that was, we just separated. So that's kind of where I get with the, with the marriages. They're either really, really strong and stay together and they're like inseparable, or they get divorced if it's not a strong family unit. And like for me, for us, on the way home it was complete silence. And then I can remember when I first came home, like my mom was like, oh okay, well, i forgot to turn off his feeding tube, so the feeding tube, the milk, got all over the floor, or it's a formula, but milk got all over the floor.
Speaker 1:Let me go and clean that up. And I and now that I have years behind me, i think it was just I knew that was the last time that I was ever going to have to do that. You know, it was one last thing that I had to help him with, and I think that's why. And then another reason is I just didn't want to think about what just happened. You know, i'm still like, and the mind's weird anyway, but your mind's trying to catch up, you know, trying to assign it. So, basically, your mind, when something like eventful happens, like this, your mind is trying to assign an emotion to it. Is this a happy moment? Is this a sad moment? How should I feel?
Speaker 1:And so, over that four hour period of time, there was so much that was going on, like my mind was trying to catch up with it, and I think it was my way. Also, we'll all just go clean that up so I don't have to think about what I just went through to. And I think, at the time too, my mind still trying to catch was still trying to catch up with. Did this really just happen? What This is just. Am I dreaming. You know this. Am I dreaming? What's?
Speaker 2:going on. You know, yeah, yeah, well, and I think what you're speaking to, you know, one of the things I hear people say after really significant traumas is that, like, if it feels like I'm in a dream, it feels like things are slow motion, like I feel really disconnected, and I think a lot of people make themselves wrong for that. Yeah Right, like people could hear you story me like how could she just go in his room and like clean that up? And this is something that matters a lot to me to have people understand is your brain is protecting you in that moment, because if you felt the full weight of all of that at once, most people are not going to be able to tolerate that. And so your brain says, okay, take the language center offline.
Speaker 2:You said complete silence, right, like our sense of time is going to be distorted, our emotions going to be distorted, we're going to dissociate, we're going to like disconnect our being physically present from our minds so that, like, we can survive this, yeah, yeah. And so I think one of the things that is so fascinating is and I can just tell, like from a trauma professional perspective, like how much work you have done, because so many people like don't have worked afterwards, and then we want people were like why don't you want to talk about it? Like don't you want to talk about them Or don't you want to? And I'm like you know, sometimes the words aren't there because our brain didn't even let us assign words to what happened, and so so that is something that comes through processing later, not necessarily something that comes in that moment.
Speaker 2:And I've seen people go into that Okay, let's clean up mode so often And I think that I really appreciate you talking about it, because I think that's one of the most misunderstood things. People are like how are they so stoic, how are they so callous? I'm like they're not stoic and callous. Their brain is going we can't think about this. Yeah, go focus over here.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the way I explain it is so, basically, you have this trauma and you're in this space and you know you have this old life before the trauma, and then you have the trauma, and then you have whatever's after, and I think everybody goes well, i want to be happy again, or I want to quote heal, and they see this big, huge, shiny object over here. We're going to heal, and that's not the case. There are so many little things you have to do in between and you have to turn off some things to work on that. One specific thing first, and the first thing that you have to do is say, okay, well, i do want to get better, i want to figure out what this quote heal thing is, or I want to figure out how to deal with it. And there's little tiny steps in between all of that.
Speaker 1:But everybody gets, or a lot of people. They'll start and then they're like no, i can't do this, and they sleep back down. Yeah, because they're trying to go from the incident straight back to the way they were. And one thing that they don't understand either is, once you have a traumatic event, no matter what it is, if you feel like it's a traumatic event, and it could be something as simple as you lose your job or you know something, something simpler than than child loss. When it's a traumatic event, you never go back to that person you were. No change your morals, your beliefs, your values. You change And I think a lot of people get stuck. Well, i'm not that person I used to be. You're never going to be that person again. And that's not a bad thing, you know, because I think I'm a totally better person than I was then. Not to say that I was a bad person, but I'm a better version of me now, yeah, but they get stuck on. I'm not back at where I was, but they're never going to be there again.
Speaker 2:And that is this isn't like validated through data, but I would say, after like studying this for a really long time. That is the fundamental thing that I think determines if someone's going to be able to recover is are they trying to go back or are they trying to move forward?
Speaker 2:And I get it. I get wanting to go back. I get wanting to go back five seconds before that thing happened and just choose a different path or do something different. And I think that that's where a lot of the Well, like what if I had just done this, or what if I had just done that? that's another piece of it. What if I could go back? and so there is so much validity and like letting yourself go there for a while because it is part of the process is like morning the facts that you cannot go back.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I see so many people not like, they get stuck in the morning, they get stuck in the grief around I'm never going to have this again, and not just around child loss, around anything.
Speaker 2:You know, people who have physical traumas. I have a lot of humans that have a lot of chronic pain and they're like what if I? you know, I just want to get to the point that I don't have pain anymore and I'm like great, like maybe you'll get there, and like what if we shifted the question to if I have pain every single day for the rest of my life, how am I going to live around that? how am I going to live that and through that? and so I think that people do one of two things. They either try to, like you kind of said, they either get stuck in that morning, or they try to like fast forward and go okay, i'm just going to like be a new person now and I'm going to like get over it and move on and and it's like okay, but there's a lot under there that you did not feel right and and when we were talking earlier, when I was talking about there was other demons that I was dealing with and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I mean, one of one of the big things that changed for me was I was always. I always felt like, especially being in law enforcement, i had to prove myself as a woman and I had to do all this things and I had to be career, career oriented and I had to have all these degrees and I had to, you know, do all this stuff. And then afterwards it was just like you know, i was actually in the last class but I had to write the last paper for to get my bachelor's degree the week that he died And you know. So obviously I got an extension and everything like that, and a week later I think, i ended up finishing that paper. I couldn't tell you what it was written about, but yeah, and I got my bachelor's degree, but I remember sitting there and it coming in and being like this doesn't mean anything to me anymore.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's little things like that, like aspects of your life that change and you really don't know who you are anymore. You really don't and you got to figure out, like these women or anybody that goes through trauma. What are, what are your beliefs? what are your values? what are your morals? what are you about now? not what you were about. What do you believe now? And it's just like that. But I just mentioned, and it's throughout your whole life and different things that you used to view one way changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how we define trauma, right, is that it? it shifts how you make meaning out of things, so it shifts how you see yourself, or and or other people and or the world at large. Yeah, and the interesting thing is, is that recovery is you shift the way you think about yourself, the way you think about others and the way you think about the world, and you make those shifts in a direction that feels aligned for you, that helps you make meaning out of everything that's happened to you. And I get frustrated, i will admit this. I get frustrated with people who are like, well, your purpose is in your pain and, like you know, like you just get to like make a new meaning out of it. And I'm like, yes, absolutely, that's what happens. Yeah, again, going back, did you mourn? Did you lay on your floor and cry so hard that you got sick? Did you rage at God or whomever for, like, what happened? Like, did you feel it? Yeah, because it is hard to make meaning out of something that we haven't fully felt.
Speaker 1:Yes, Yeah, you're exactly right. I think that's where you see a lot of people that grieve. They'll make their lives so busy that they don't have to deal with it, and I can give you an example. Like a month after my month or two after my child lost, i enrolled in my master's degree program.
Speaker 1:Of course, yeah, that's what you do. I mean, yeah, go take another degree. So I had my work, which I was working overtime and working way too much, and then I had well, i still had this little bit of time. So now I'm going to throw myself into a master's degree program, which is fine. You know, i wanted to do it, but it was not the right time. You know, right then it was to grieve.
Speaker 1:But the easiest thing for people to do is, you know, I don't want to feel it, so I'm just going to pack it up and move it away, and it doesn't help with the grief process anyway, because any kind of grief, so so, like for my son after he passed, what most people do is when they think of somebody, they think of that last experience that they spent with that person. So what is that? for me, it was grief, and what is it for those mothers? It's the grief. But you got to train, like for me you had. I had to train my mind to think of the positive things.
Speaker 1:At the time when I took a special needs kids to the Bahamas, we went to the Bahamas, or the times that you know, we went to the park with him, and those are the times I had to replace that last incident, which was his death, obviously, with Yeah, and people, people are still in that mindset of they died. That's the last memory, that's the first memory that comes to their mind when they think of that person. Think about your grandparents, if your, your parents, had passed, you think of that last memory you had, whatever it is, and they stay in that, they think of that last memory and says, i know, i'm not going to think about that, i'm going to think about the time that you know he had a home run or whatever, that great best experience you had with them and all those memories. And if you could bring those memories forward, it would really help.
Speaker 2:I'm curious what meaning has come forward out of all this for you, like what do you now think about yourself? What do you now think about the other people? Like what do you think about the world?
Speaker 1:That's still interesting, I know right, i was like that. Just a tiny question, no, so so now personally, i'm an introvert, i am a big introvert, and I learned about that after I started saying hey, let me find out who I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah the family person. I believe in taking care of my family You mentioned earlier about. You know the pain and pain and purpose and everything like that. You know, I think I'm living my purpose now. I think that before I was lost like I did not know what I really wanted to do in life and how I got into law enforcement was it was just like, hmm, this is interesting, Let's do it. So I think I have a clear picture on what I am and am not going to do, as in anything in life, If I don't want to do it, I'm not going to do it, you know, and I'm going to take care of my family, and my family always comes first. And I think those are the two biggest things. And I just think that I don't have any limits on me.
Speaker 1:And what an after. People talk about affirmations, but the thing that I used to tell myself all the time was I've already lived my worst day. Every day after that day is going to be better than that day was. And when I had that bad day and I didn't know how, at that time I did not know how to deal with it. You know, I didn't know how do I fix this. You know I'm in a bad mood. I don't know how to do it And I didn't know what worked for me. I would say that over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:Even today. Even today, you know, i have bad days still, Everybody has bad days, you know, and I'll tell myself that you know there's no day that's going to be as bad as that day was. So I can work through anything And I truly believe that now. I believe that that's the worst thing that I will ever go through in life and I will never have another trauma. And I will tell myself I will never have a trauma like that. Obviously there's still issues, because I have a daughter now that I had after the fact but after my son passed. But I deal with those issues as I go. But that's my motto, is like you know I can do anything. You know If I can And that's another thing is like if you can be functioning in society and after child loss, you can do anything.
Speaker 2:You can do anything. Yeah, that's what just came is like, even if you have another absolutely awful experience happen to you. Guess what You're like? OK, i've been here So many people, i think, avoid really finding out who they are, yeah, and feeling those feelings, because they are afraid that they're going to hit bottom, Bottom, yeah, worst day ever. And having been in a few of those scenarios where I'm like I am part of somebody's worst day ever, Yeah. You know, it's not my worst day ever, but it's their worst day ever.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Finding people move through that and come through that is. You know, i think we're afraid to get close to people who are going through that, but there is, there is there's a gift in allowing yourself to go there and be there with them and sit with them in that, because it just for me, it just reminds me like I can survive anything until I don't. I'm gonna survive everything, i survive, and I get to choose how I go through that experience until I don't, and then I won't, and then I well, i don't have to worry about it anymore, right? So there's this fear of like, oh my gosh, what if I have the worst day ever?
Speaker 2:And it's like, well, that's going to happen one day, it is gonna happen, It has to statistically And like you have so much evidence around you and you don't have to do it alone, just like bringing it back to what you saw in the beginning. You don't have to do it alone. And also, i think, once you've experienced a lot of worst day ever, i think there's a lot of us that then go okay, how do I go sit with other people? who are having those experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think for anybody that has a traumatic experience, just decide in your mind this is gonna be my worst day, and you know what I mean. It's gonna be worse than this one. So let me start working on myself, cause you don't have to say okay if you like. For me. I was fighting demons, I hit rock bottom And I wasn't. I always tell people I wasn't suicidal. But I always said you know, if something happened to me, i'd be okay with it because I got to kill him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's still totally the same thing. But you know you don't have to go there again. Just accept and understand where you're at now And then know that tomorrow is not gonna be like this, because I'm going to make that change And I think a lot of people are scared to go that deep. But you don't ever have to go that deep. Once you do it one time and realize where you're starting from, you don't have to go there anymore if you don't want to.
Speaker 2:That is a quote right there. Yeah, you're right Cause I one of the things that I do with people and I'm guessing you support people through this too is, you know, i take people back to their worst day. You know, a safe, supportive way You have to go, yeah, and when.
Speaker 2:And they are always terrified to go there. And then when they come out, they're like oh, you know, what's been happening is I've been living my worst day over and over and over, because I haven't been willing to actually feel the worst day ever. And now that I've fully felt it and like made meaning from it, okay, yeah, i don't have to do that again.
Speaker 1:No, never again, Just one time.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for coming on. I don't think I've been in this close to tears for an entire episode. So just thank you for being vulnerable and sharing this piece of your story, and we're going to make sure in the show notes that anyone who's gone through this or is going through this can connect with you and not feel alone, because I think that that is it's connection is how. That's the other way that you stop having the worst day ever. Because if you can go to somebody and you're saying and it's 2pm and you're like I think this might be the worst day ever, they can be like great, it's two o'clock, like come on, let's go, let's go for a walk, let's talk about it, and then all of a sudden it's not the worst day ever anymore.
Speaker 1:Right, definitely have to find. I call my. I always tell all my women you gotta find your people. Whatever the problem is you gotta find them. And the way that I teach people, the way that you teach people, you're going to have your specific tribe and keep working with whoever until you find that perfect person And those are your people and run with it. Yeah, definitely run with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I, yeah, those communities exist everywhere. Yes, and also I'll say this is if you can't find one, maybe you're meant to do what June and I did, which is create your own. Yeah, because I didn't have one And it sounds like you went out and created your own too, And sometimes that is, but that is the purpose. And the pain is like wow, i went through this and no one else is talking about it And everyone else is suffering alone through this. So like yeah, how do we stop?
Speaker 1:That's exactly how I did And again, i urge everybody that don't take what people and you used to do. This is a new day. So if you want to start something cause I can remember a teacher in high school tell me I couldn't read And I wrote a book prove everybody wrong You don't have to live from what was Just go out and do it. And if you don't know the steps I mean I know anybody could contact me Hey, how did you start this? Or contact you. Hey, how did you start this? And it's easy Yeah, i did boom, boom, boom, and you just have to be consistent, yeah, so what we do is be consistent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you June, oh, you're welcome, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:All right, y'all, we will see you next week, and if you want to share anything that came up for you during this episode, send us an email, send me a DM, reach out to June, if this landed with you, cause we really love hearing your feedback and your responses. So, yeah, see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Invitations to head to our show notes to check out the offers and connections we mentioned, or you can just head straight over to InstituteforTraumacom and hop in our email list so that you never miss any of the cool things that we're doing over at the Institute. Invitations to be well and to take care of yourself this week And we'll see you next time.