Powerful Conversations, Part 2: A Powerful Conversation with Keona Lewis, Ph.D.

Episode Topic: A Powerful Conversation with Keona Lewis, Ph.D.

Given that demographers estimate that the United States will be a majority-minority country by 2048, what does that mean for the changing face of leadership? Angela Logan, Ph.D., St. Andre Bessette Academic Director of the Master of Nonprofit Administration Program at the Mendoza College of Business and Keona Lewis, Ph.D., assistant provost for academic diversity and inclusion and assistant professor of the practice in the Institute for Social Concerns at the University of Notre Dame, sit down for a fireside chat about a new framework of business leadership and how Lewis works to foster an academic environment where faculty and staff feel a strong sense of belonging and respect.

Featured Speakers:

•  Angela Logan, Ph.D., St. Andre Bessette Academic Director of the Master of Nonprofit Administration Program at the Mendoza College of Business, University of Notre Dame
• Keona Lewis, assistant provost for academic diversity and inclusion, University of Notre Dame

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/1be842.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Powerful Conversations. 

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Transcript

Introducing Dr. Keona Lewis

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 0:06

Hello and welcome to this episode of Powerful Conversations. So much has happened personally, professionally, and globally since our last episode in September of 2023 that I cannot wait to unpack with you. Even with all these changes, one thing remains the same. Powerful Conversations is a space. Where we can begin answering the question giving that demographers estimated the US will become a majority minority country in 22 years. What will the seat of power look like in the future? I want to thank the Mendoza College of Business, the Alumni Association's ThinkND, the Office of the Provost, the Office of Institutional Transformation, the Notre Dame Initiative on Race and Resilience. Indy research and the black alumni of Notre Dame for sponsoring our time together. So what does 18 months of planning and 20 years of research dreaming and prayer look like welcome to powerful conversations. Through powerful conversations, we will have discussions with black women leaders exploring a new framework of business leadership. I could think of no better person to continue this series with than Dr. Keona Lewis. who serves as assistant provost for academic diversity and inclusion here at the University of Notre Dame, which also concurrently while also concurrently holding an appointment as assistant professor of the practice in Notre Dame's Institute for Social Concern. As assistant provost, Kiona oversees the vision strategy and community building programs for academic diversity and inclusion. She also helps ensure that the academic core is an environment where faculty and staff feel a strong sense of belonging and respect, and where differences are celebrated, partnering closely with the Vice President and Associate Provost of Faculty Affairs. Welcome Kiona,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 2:24

Thank you for having me.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 2:26

it's so good to start, restart our conversations with you. I don't know about you, but it's been one of three things have happened. I know personally and professionally. So it's good to just level set and start the conversations again. So thanks for taking the time to kick us. To kick us off, what would you say have been your biggest bright spots or moments of joy in the last 18 months?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 2:55

think for me, the biggest bright spot has been the relationships. That I've able to build, or continue to build, I will say before I started when the position when my, new position was announced, I received so many messages via email and linked in with people welcoming me to Notre Dame, which felt right and felt really good. so being able to continue to nurture. Many of those relationships has been a bright spot, moving from Atlanta to South Bend. It's a bit of a culture shock.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 3:28

Just a tiny little bit. The weather is so much better in South Bend. It's so predictable.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 3:37

Not even close. so has really, I think, affirmed the decision to come here and really has made this.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 3:46

Excellent. So I'm sure with all those joys, you're holding a few. things in tension that have been, shall we say, disorienting, that may have knocked you for a loop. What is grounding you in this season?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 4:04

To be honest, my faith has grounded me in this season of the scripture says now faith is right. The substance of things hope for the evidence of things not seen. There are so many things. not seen right now. but just having that belief that somehow it's all going to work out for our good. It's not going to just work out, but it's gonna work out for our good. and then putting the work in because, faith without works is dead, right? So putting in the work, putting in the action because I really do believe that we will come out of this season than we went in. Yes.

Early Leadership Experiences

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 4:41

Absolutely. I love that approach. It's very similar to what I've been doing lately, which is a lot of focus on scripture And other things that are grounding me. I've shared recently with someone, whether it's reading the Psalms or theologian, Howard Thurman, listening to Marvin Gaye or listening to Kendrick Lamar, that has really centered me to remind me there's nothing new under the sun we've been here before. So to just level set and learn from those who've gone before us to figure out. How do we make this work? How do we make it make sense? So yeah, I love that.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:24

Awesome.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:25

What experiences would you say are, have anchored your leadership? What was your earliest experience in leadership? And who were your examples of black female leaders in your life growing up and in your career, in your early days of your career?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:42

Okay. So those are a lot of questions. feel free to interject a reminder

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:47

Absolutely.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:47

I go off the rails. I can honestly say that I've always marched the beat of my very own drum.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:55

love that.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 5:56

in thinking about women, or mentors, I have to start with my mother who, even though I know it got on her nerves, like she never, I've tried to put me in a box. and I think because of that, I've had a lot of to figure out who I am, what's important to me, what are my goals, what do I need to get out of this role in order for it to be meaningful for me. she's the first one who allowed me be, and even though she talked trash, because You know how our mothers can be. She talks trash, but she made it

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 6:28

I

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 6:28

even in the midst of like me having to hear her complain about it. So I really. I am appreciative to her, for that. There also have been community members, who poured into me, into little brown girls like me. I remember in high school being nominated for, a Who's Who, but it was in a nationally syndicated newspaper, and it was because The editor of that newspaper was an African American woman, and she sought out an opportunity to recognize the hard work that we were doing and to highlight our value. I've had other mentors throughout my PhD. I've had mentors from all walks of life, and I don't want to not value or not speak to or recognize those mentors who weren't women, who also taught me discipline. I think that's the beauty of connecting with many people, because they each have something different to pour into you. And it's those little snippets that you get from each of them that help shape you, into who you are as a human, as a woman, as a leader. the last question, remind me.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 7:31

think you actually covered them all. What was your earliest experience with leadership? So what was the first time that little Kiona stepped out and led something? Love

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 7:42

Okay, this is gonna be a funny story. This is a world exclusive. So when I was in high school, I went to a performing arts high school and I was a thespian. I was a very serious actor, right? so I went to audition for an African ballet our instructor, he writes these words on the board and he sings it and he says, now sing. And we're all lined up in a row like this is the audition says, sing. And so we're all like looking at each other. And I remember thinking, why not? stepped forward, I sang, and I ended up with every solo. I did, I think, I don't think I had one speaking line. I ended up singing for the whole show, which was, wait, no, I'm a serious actor here. What are you doing? You're not using my talent. But just by stepping up and saying, you know what? First of all, I believed I could do it, but secondly, like I'm not gonna not shine because others are afraid to, and I think that kind of intrinsic of self propelled me to being the lead singer for the whole show.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 8:46

that for you. how did that experience influence your professional journey? Or did it have an influence?

Cultural Identity and Professional Journey

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 8:55

It had a very, heavy influence. It was an African ballet. It was about the Soweto riots or uprisings. and I began to, Understand that people were really treated differently because of the color of their skin for no other reason and it was like weird like I did not understand how so much value could be placed on something is so random. and so that experience of really understanding, the consequences of apartheid, like the realities of people who were alive in my lifetime, definitely impacted my desire to know more about the social construction of race and why and how it's been, used in our society's kind of development over time.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 9:43

So connected to that, how have you been able, have you been able to incorporate your cultural identity into your work? And foster an environment for all cultural identities to thrive?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 9:59

So I think so. I'll be honest when I was. Thinking about the questions, I, this was the question that gave me the longest pause, because I've explained a little bit that I always marched to, my own beat and I haven't always had the opportunity to identify, with majority of the stories we hear about what it means to be an African American or to be an African American woman. I just, it's always been a challenge because my parents, my father. My mother was a jazz musician and music teacher, and my mother was like a radio disc jockey, right? No, there are no two other parents on the planet who can pour into another kid like me. I can't assume that, everyone has the same perspective or experience that I've had. fact, it's highly unlikely. And so that question really made me think about cultural identity. And I know that there are definitely things that we all share in common just by nature of race. the color of our skin. There are experiences that we can most definitely identify with. There are examples on Instagram of the seven letters and I know exactly what those letters stand for.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 11:08

Absolutely.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 11:09

shared experiences. it's the intersectionality of it all, right? I hate to put people in boxes. I hate to be put in a box I can give, my experience. with no expectation that anyone will say, yeah, the same thing happened to me. and sometimes people do say the same thing happened to me. so not to digress, but that question gave me pause because I wanted to make sure that, I give people the space to be whoever it is that they were created to be. And I think that's what I try to do in this role. And that's what I bring to the table for my cultural identity as, a middle child of a jazz musician and or a disc jockey growing up in the state of Florida, these are the things that I'm trying to bring to the table in the work that we do to create space for everyone to lean in to exactly who they are. And you might lean into who you are and I might not. Like it, right? But you still have every right to be your best and most full self. And I hope to encourage that in the work that I do here.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 12:13

Absolutely. And as the only child of a truck driver and a maintenance dispatcher from Northeast Ohio. I totally get that because my, I often will say to people, the few things that my mother and I have in common, had in common were that we were both black women who were cisgender heterosexual. And Christian, but beyond that, she came of age, the height of the civil rights era. I came of age in the integrated North. I grew up solidly middle class. She grew up poor to lower middle class. I went to private schools, my entire life. She went to segregated schools, her whole life. So we've had some shared experiences. But it's not, living the life of a black woman in America is not a monolithic life. We all bring our whole selves to the table. And so what your uniqueness and how you're uniquely shaped is part of your identity. Just the same way that I was. You singing solo terrifies me. But then I was a state champion in speech my sophomore year in high school. And You're like, oh, no, thank you. No ma'am. but also couldn't imagine it any other way. And so these experiences, while they're not monolithic, there are certain things that do come across like Absolutely. There are certain memes or reels that I've seen was like, oh yeah. The one meme that, is a graphic of. That it was the night before Easter and a black girl's child. I was like, yep, I can smell that picture. And I immediately start grabbing from my ear. There's some experiences that are universal, but

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 14:06

going to

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 14:08

And that's okay. Oh, goodness. So how do you believe your professional identity has been shaped by your intersectionality as a black woman from the South, even?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 14:25

That's a tough one. not really, but to talk about, I, my identity is who I am. I don't, it's difficult to parse it out, being, yes, I was. I'm a black woman from the south. I was also identified as gifted in the fifth in kindergarten before first grade. And so my classrooms were not very diverse. And so I didn't have a lot of, friends in school, so to

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 14:55

I

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 14:55

in elementary school, not in a sad way, but just different. And that, again, that, that belief in everyone's ability to be able to lean into who they are, I feel like that's my foundation to everything. I've never been a box checker. if there's no meaning to it, I struggle. Any project, any role, any task that I don't understand the meaning for, I'm going to have a problem with it. and so I've always sought roles and opportunities to do things that I find meaningful. But the first part of that is, being reflective and introspective and understanding what matters to you. What is meaningful? for you. What brings you joy? I've tried to spend a good amount of time figuring those things out so that when I make decisions, I know that I'm placing myself in the position and opportunity to do something that I think is meaningful, that I think it's impactful and that I can give my full self to. Jaya Devi out of Kashi, Atlanta. She always says, Don't forget to drink while you pour. Which I always forget to do, but remembering to do those things that bring you joy so that you can feel yourself up while you're in service to others. I think that's one of those things that I brought with me and then I hope I'm able to share with those around me.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 16:13

love that. Don't forget to drink while you pour. I always tell my students, I always ask my students, what's the last thing the flight attendants say to you before we take off? Put your own mask on first before you go to assist others. And too often black women in leadership, we are really good at pouring and putting on everyone else's mask and we're dehydrated and gasping for air. And it shows up in big ways, in small ways, and in every way in between.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 16:50

I am.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 16:50

So what advice would you give to your younger self as you were beginning your academic journey.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 17:00

I wish I had spent more time enjoying the journey. I, I had this goal and that goal was like this thing that I just had to get to. And I didn't get to really fully enjoy the journey way that I wish I had. I knew that prior to going back to school, I was teaching sixth grade and I felt

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 17:25

Bless you.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 17:26

I felt like I wasn't being impactful because there were all of these big systemic issues that were standing in the way between these students reaching their full potential. my little, the little, what I thought was my little contribution, it just felt like it wasn't enough. And so I decided to go back to school with the goal of this will put me in the position to have an even greater impact. One of the things I learned is that my contribution was huge. when I run into former students, don't ask me how old they are now, but

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:01

Don't do the math. Don't ask those

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:03

know.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:04

No,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:05

being

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:05

absolutely not.

Balancing Personal and Professional Life

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 18:06

about the dates and the times, when I run into them, I realize that I really did have an impact on them and I didn't even get an opportunity to appreciate it at the time. And I would say I did the same thing throughout my PhD program. About midway through, after I finished, coursework, I was getting ready to start my dissertation and I just realized that I did not have any clue. Why I was there. like what cost is too much for this degree? so I took a semester off to really answer that question for myself. Why am I here? What is the value for me out of this and how is this meaningful? And I went back and finished so I found the answers. But I learned you have to enjoy the journey. It's a part of the, it's a part of the blessing of In your path is the journey, the ups and the downs, the things that we learned, the things that we're able to impart and share with others. that's the meat of the journey, not the goal at the end. And I just wish I had learned that. earlier on so that I could have truly that time.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 19:16

I love that for you. Speaking of enjoying the time, how do you integrate family life, career, faith, and keeping you? First in mind,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 19:31

So I was thinking about that question, I just had this imagery of the like dot, like the loading page. I'm still loading. I'm still learning how to do that. One of the things that I've tried to do is really. I know I'm talking a lot about like introspection because this work starts within first, like we have to do the work for ourselves before we can do all of these wonderful things that we want to do for others. and so one of the things I realized is that I love blessing others, and it doesn't mean I have to give you money like anything anytime someone's Oh, thank you. I am full. The issue is. If you're pouring, you eventually, I'm exhausted. I'm fatigued. I'm not sleeping well. And it's because I'm on eat. I've run out of gas. and so one of the things I try to do now is, take the time for the things that feed me, that fuel me, that nourish me. and that doesn't mean taking all the time. if I wake up in the morning and I'm not feeling it, I, my body needs more time I got to give it more time. if someone asked me if I want to do something and I, I know I really don't, I don't want to be around people right now. It's Friday. I've been around people all week. I need a break. Then I say no. sometimes my husband will say, Oh, what are you doing? I'm like, absolutely nothing. It's Saturday morning and I'm going to. recharge. and so that's one of the things that I've taken more seriously in my older age.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:01

as we become more seasoned in life.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:04

Yes.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:04

We keep the main thing,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:06

Yes.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:07

and no is a complete sentence that requires no further explanation or clarification. And I like to call those days a mental health holiday. Personally, I'm sick of working. You can call it what you want. I'm not going anywhere. I'm having a good introverted day. I feel a cup of coffee in front of my fireplace

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:32

Sounds

Leadership Insights and Advice

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:32

some smooth jazz and a candle. I'm good. do I have to peep? Do I have to people again today? No, thank you. I don't like that. I don't. no.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:44

yeah,

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:45

what has surprised you on your leadership journey? Oh,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 21:50

the leadership part of the leadership, like I said, I've never set out to be this, leader of men. I've always wanted to just be as true as I can be. my heart, to my conscience, to what I needed to feel like I'm being a blessing to others. and I think, which we all know, like true leaders are servants first. And I think I had not connected those dots. I just I'm just like a worker. I'm like, let's do this. This is going to matter. Let's do something good. And then you look around and you realize, OK, people are following you and they're listening to you in there. Asking you for your thoughts and your feedback and your advice. maybe there's something to this. Maybe people want to hear what I have to say, and that's what I stumbled into, this state of being where in doing the work that I'm most passionate about, people saw value in it and then they saw value in me and. That's been the blessing of it all. so you'd ask me what surprised me most, it's that the fact that it's even a thing.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 22:49

I love that. You just look around. Oh, I don't know about you, but some days I'm like, Oh, no. Oh, I've been looking for an adult here. Adult. What? Oh, you want me? No, isn't there somebody else? no, it's you. You sure there's not somebody a little more responsible. I'm having popcorn. I'm probably gonna have popcorn for dinner tonight What this is?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 23:11

Yeah.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 23:12

I need an adult, your adult to lead this, but okay, sure, let's go with no problem. black female leaders offer a model of leadership that often that is the alternative to that self made man mythology of rugged individualism and toxic perfectionist models that exist in our culture. How do you think self compassionate awareness, community building and strength through vulnerability show up on the path to leadership and is it any way related to relationships and collaborations?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 23:55

Yes, it is. I think that. community, the ways in which we're all connected to each other, that is the real world, the place, the world where I, pulled myself up by my bootstrap with no help. I've never heard one of those stories where if you don't, if you dig a little deeper, that, no, there was, you did have a little bit of help, which is fine because we all need help. And this idea that if you get help, then you are lesser accomplished is fallacy. it's not real. and to have women in the position to express and to model and to show that it's okay if we lift each other up. It's okay if we talk about, because I want young women, young black women, young women, young men, young people to know that if I run into a situation where I need help, it's okay to ask for it. And it's okay to go to the people who have the answers and ask for it. And I don't have to feel shame or guilt because I had to ask for help. this is how we, as a community, as a nation, this is how we thrive, this is how we flourish, together. There's a reason we have communities and civilizations. Apologize, I'm in South Bend and my nose is running.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 25:12

The most wonderful time of the year where we can't pick a season. It's spring and winter at the same time in the same weekend

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 25:22

and the same day,

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 25:23

and the same

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 25:24

Yeah,

The Importance of Community and Belonging

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 25:27

five minutes. It will change. So I totally get it. And related to that, I've seen, a lot of psychologists come out with a new form of responding to crises. So there's fight flight or freeze, but what they're starting to find. Amongst women is that it's. Tend, mend, and befriend so that when women are going through crises, they tend to talk about it to other women and have a shared experience of communication, which is often vastly different than the, I'll do it myself. I'm an, I'm self made. You scratch the surface. You didn't have to dig too deep. You scratch the surface and you realize that you did not even have your own socks. So you needed somebody to help you. And so it's such a wonderful thing to see how women can come together and lead in a way that really models what collective action and community can look like.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 26:26

100 percent agree.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 26:27

As we think about Notre Dame's president, Father Bob's charge. To all of us to ask ourselves, what do we owe each other? How does your work create, help create a sense of belonging? And in Dr. King's words, a more beloved community.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 26:44

So a lot of my work focuses on building community. community. A sense of trust, I would say like little t trust where I at least can acknowledge that you're trying to do it the right way. I might not agree with everything, but can receive the intent. part of that is acknowledgement. We can't. Undo the past, we also can't expect people to be okay with ignoring it or pretending like it didn't happen. This is the situation. There's a bit of transparency there. And this is where we hope to go. And these are the steps that we're taking to get there. And we want to get there together. So we begin to, these opportunities to come together so that we can do this, as a full community. It's not, Your job to help them understand it's not your job to solve their problem. It's our job together, to build the community that we want, the beloved community that we aspire to.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 27:40

Absolutely. I often say not having these questions, not having these conversations has worked. Oh, so well for the last 400 years. What's the worst that could happen if we actually started the conversation? We know what happens when we don't talk about these things. Let's see what happens when we do knowledge is power and the more I'm now feeling like a cartoon the more, you know Once you can move up move forward but being in isolation or ignoring it is not going to help the situation

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 28:16

And I do think that it's so important that we give people grace and the benefit of the doubt. I, if I do something that offends you, I want you to believe that I didn't do it on purpose. How can I then not give the same grace to others? it's just, it's an untenable position that, you're always wrong and I'm always right. that's just not the way the world, that's not reality, right? so I think we have to really put forward love, put forward grace. And if we're all in this together, yeah, there might be some missteps. I might have some missteps, you might have some missteps, my intent is to make this. community stronger together, and so you can rely on that. That should hold us together, even when we have difficult times.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 28:59

and even if My intent was honorable. If the impact of my behavior had a negative consequences for you, point that out to me so that I can help make amends because if you don't, if you don't tell me I've hurt you, I'll never know. And you'll walk around with me and I'm like, what? I didn't even,

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 29:24

can't acknowledge what you've done if you don't know that you've

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 29:27

and that you don't tell me. How would I know if I hurt you if you didn't tell me that?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 29:31

But that goes back to the trust, right? If I trust that you had good intentions, and I know that I care about our relationship, then I'm going to come to you and I'm going to say, listen, I actually can't get past this, so let's talk.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 29:43

Let's talk through this. I love that. What is the best advice you've ever received regarding leadership?

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 29:50

the best advice I've ever received. I am gonna go back to Swami Jaya Devi. Devi. Sorry, I apologize. She's coming on campus just FYI. but I have to go back to the advice that she gave, is don't forget to drink while you pour. we're naturally, many women, not all, are naturally wired to service. And to serve and to give and to do these things. And we get hurt and we say, I'm never going to do that again. But that's not true to who we're naturally wired to be. What we have to do a better job of in leadership is feeding ourselves so that we are full. to do this wonderful work of serving others. that for me, it was game changing, right? Because trying to not help people brought no joy, to help people brought joy, but exhaustion in equal measure. So finding that balance, was very key for me. And that's just one example. I haven't had many mentors who shared great advice, but for sustaining this type of work, I think in the top three.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 30:55

Absolutely. I love that. That is really sound advice. last question. So we chose Sankofa as the symbol for our series. which is a bird at the center of the graphic we use in the series. Sankofa loosely translates from the Twi language to mean it is not taboo to go back and retrieve what was lost. How is this at work? In your work.

keona-lewis_1_03-03-2025_133717 31:25

This is the foundation of my work. I talked about the, Soweto uprisings. my grandfather, we ended up in Florida because my grandfather had to flee Alabama. there is no me without me understanding where I've come from and what who, you know, but for them I wouldn't be here. what that means to this work into my commitment to it. so without a doubt, my great grandmother was 102 when she passed. and I was an adult and she had 100 over 140 descendants. I am so connected to everything about history, not just of my family, but of African Americans and black people in this country. I don't think we could do any of this work. the love that those wonderful. Civil rights activists had in their heart for or for people. They hadn't even met yet. that to me transcends all of the work that we're talking about with the love community. And, I'd like that. I could just have a pinch of their love for us, wow, I'd really be doing some things. So that's, yes, that to me, that is foundational to everything that I try to do.

angela-r--logan--ph-d-_1_03-03-2025_133717 32:44

I love that. And that is the perfect way to wrap up our conversation before Dr. Lewis and I conclude, thanks again for joining us, Kiona. It has been an absolute pleasure and a delight. Thanks to all of you for listening in and we hope you've enjoyed the conversation as much as we've had having it. Please visit think. indy. edu to learn more about Powerful Conversations, other series that might interest you. Until next time, inspire your mind and spark conversations. Go Irish!