The bigQUEST Podcast with Andy Murray

S1E11: Mike Bates On Developing a Dream-Big Mindset

February 19, 2021 Andy Murray Season 1 Episode 11
The bigQUEST Podcast with Andy Murray
S1E11: Mike Bates On Developing a Dream-Big Mindset
Show Notes Transcript

What kind of bigQUEST will define your legacy? Tune in to today’s episode where Andy Murray talks with Mike Bates, who’s training for a solo row across the Atlantic. They discuss the single biggest dragon Mike has faced as he prepares, how he’s training to avoid “handle down” moments, and what is driving this unique Quest. For more information on the bigQUEST Framework, find us at

Andy Murray: Hey there, Mike. Great to see you today. How are you?

Mike Bates: Do you know what, Andy? I'm really good, mate. I'm really good, thank you. Yourself?

Andy Murray: I'm wonderful, wonderful. I want to thank you for being on this podcast. I've been following your story for some time now, and have been so inspired by what you're doing. And while I've already said a few things in the introduction, I'd like to hear the story of what you're doing, and why you're doing it as a starter. So, if you could just start there that would be great.

Mike Bates: Okay, thank you, mate. Can I just say to start with, thanks for the opportunity. I really appreciate you guys having me on. So, well my bigQUEST is that in 2022, so in exactly two years time, almost to the day, I'll be rowing solo across the Atlantic ocean from La Gomera in the Canary Islands to Antigua. I'm doing that to raise some money for a hospital which saved my youngest son's life. So, it's a very personal Quest and one that I've been thoroughly in training for, for some time.

Andy Murray: So Mike, before we talk a bit more about the process you're going through, a very personal starting point for you which created a lot of passion to go and do this. And I got to say, for most people on a Quest, if you don't have an outcome that's really personal, where you feel really compassionate about it, it's hard to stay motivated to go through all you have to go through. So this sounds like this started from a very personal place for you that was very important, or is important.

Mike Bates: Yeah, absolutely. I think any big goal, or any bigQUEST that you set for yourself, one of the key elements, and I've kind of done a lot of thinking around this over recent years, is that motivation. If you don't have that deep down inside, the reason why you're trying to do something, then when the going gets tough, and let me tell you this is a relentless training regimen I'm under right now, then you just won't do it. So yeah, having a very poorly child, and seeing ... Well, experiencing that trauma as we did as a family. Interestingly, I don't remember feeling it at the time. I think at the time I was on autopilot. It was years later that I think the trauma kind of realized itself and kind of came out.

And I've always wanted to give something back to the people that looked after Gabriel.

Andy Murray: Wow, that's fantastic. And would love to know what your day was like before you decided to go on the journey. Did you have a regular job? Was it something you had already been training for? I mean, you have a very active life, but just tell our audience what you were doing.

Mike Bates: Well, I was in the Royal Marine for just short of six years. I joined 20 years ago this year. And I served in Afghanistan and Iraq, and all that. So, I've had a long background with bigQUESTS and training hard for things and setting big goals. 

And then for the last 15 years, I was working with an MOD in the intelligence community doing a covert role there in the counter-terrorism space, which I've just left on another bigQUEST to start my own business. So, I'm a pretty busy guy, man. As you can probably tell, I don't tend to sit still for long.

Andy Murray: Yeah. Well, I think once you start doing this kind of work and you get good at being on a Quest, it is contagious. It does encourage you to keep going and trying to do it again, and repeating it because there's nothing else like it, really.

Mike Bates: For sure. And I think it's all about, for me, it's about the legacy of your own life and your own existence. Some people say you should write your own obituary whilst you're alive, and just see whether or not you're going to be happy with what people are going to say. And there's lots of elements to this latest Quest to cross the Atlantic solo. A part of it is to raise money for a very, very worthy cause. Part of it is to inspire my own children, and really get the brakes off in a really formative time for them, because they're just becoming teenagers. And part of it is just to inspire as many people as possible to just think a little bit bigger perhaps than they have done in their life thus far.

Andy Murray: Yeah. Hands up, I'll confess, I worked Asda while you started this idea. And Sarah, your wife, was in the marketing team. And she told us what you were up to, and I think everybody was quite inspired by the courage, the bravery, and it just made our daily challenges seem a bit petty. I was kind of like, "Wait a minute ..." It does inspire other people, and I think sometimes people don't appreciate that when you do step out and commit yourself to do something, to go to the land beyond the land you know is always inspiring to other people. And one of the things, Mike, I guess that I really would love to hear about is what you do every single day.

Because I got to believe you don't just work on this once a week, right? To prepare? I mean, how much of this has become something you have to do every single day?

Mike Bates: Sure. Well, I think there's a famous saying if you're not doing something every day towards your goals, you don't want it enough. And so, every day-

Andy Murray: Great saying.

Mike Bates: ... I'm training, and thinking about this ... What should we call it? A Quest, we can call it an ordeal, whatever you want to call this project. So, physically I'm doing something every day towards it. My training since April has been specifically to prepare me physically and mentally to make sure I'm robust enough to take on 60-plus days at sea. But also it's not only that. I mean, that's the easy thing, I think — the training. Some won't say that, but for me it is. I think the hardest thing is maintaining the momentum when even ... A global pandemic doesn't help, but even just trying to get the sponsorship in normal day-to-day life it's really, really tough. And you get a lot of knock-backs, it's a long road.

Mike Bates: People have rowed the Atlantic before, people only ever see them standing with flares in Nelson's Dockyard in Antigua, having rode across it. And what they don't see is the two or three years of slog it takes to get this thing done. I'm right in the midst of that and I have to say it does test you in pretty much every single aspect.

Andy Murray: Well, there's three things to this I think is important. One is the method on how you prepare yourself to do this physically, and mentally, to go through it, that method. But then there's also mindset. I know you're passionate about that word mindset. But the mindset of it probably is more difficult, I would suppose, than the method. Because the trainings, the trainings, the training, right? You got to go do that, but how do you maintain that mindset?

Mike Bates: I think they're actually interlinked. Anything big, no matter what it is, it could be something physical, it could be, I don't know, going out and getting a new job, or even a relationship. But I think first and foremost you've got to understand what you can control. And too many people get hung up on the things they don't have control over. And if you can't control them, then you just need to let that happen. And let that experience happen. But you need to understand what you can control. And I knew that my physical and mental preparation prior to the row was something that I absolutely could dial in and control. And I knew that if I didn't do it, then when I pushed off in 2022, if I hadn't controlled the controllables then that would leave me in a really shaky space in the mindset piece.

So, I'm quite comfortable knowing that when I push off in 2022, I'll have done everything possible to prepare properly for this row. And then the stuff I can't control, the weather, the marine life, the electrics, whatever, the water, we'll just ride those waves and then see what happens.

Andy Murray: As it comes. Well, some people think that going out and doing an adventure like this you must be an extreme risk-taker. Because you've not done blue ocean rowing, right? And you've never rowed across something this big—

Mike Bates: Not done any rowing.

Andy Murray: Yeah. So, but what I found to be true, and I'd love to know your thoughts on it, is that actually it's not about being a risk-taker, you do things to de-risk the journey. You’re good at planning and asking how do I de-risk it? Not add more risk to it. And so, tell me about how you've thought about taking the risk out of it, and how you think about risk in general.

Mike Bates: Okay. I think there's risk intrinsic with anything outside of anyone's comfort zone, there's going to be a risk. There's going to be ultimately a risk of failure in anything you do. But again, it comes down to preparation, it comes down to understanding what you can control. I've really thought long and hard about the risks. I actually wanted to do this in August 2019, and it wasn't until November that I'd really thought long and hard about what those risks were, and whether or not I was able to take them. And we discussed that as a family. 

So, I've broken down this project into different phases. There's the physical and mental preparation through the training, there's the sponsorship and making sure that I can fully fund this because if you try to do this on not fully funded, you're going to cut corners. And if you cut corners, you're going to fail. And that's not safe. 

And then it was a decision I made to be part of the Talisker Whisky Atlantic Challenge. Now, that was a choice between even doing it completely unsupported on my own or doing it as part of an organized event. And that, to me, just felt more balanced in terms of risk. As a soloist, I don't have anyone to rely on out there. I am on my own. But at least being part of the event there are some ... Well, there's one support vessel in the Atlantic. Might be a few weeks away, but I've got a chance at being saved.

Andy Murray: That's great. I'm sure you have to slay a lot of dragons and obstacles to overcome. I mean, and once you set out on this the world turns into a whole bunch of obstacles to solve and break down. Is there a single biggest obstacle or barrier that's on your mind that you're kind of keeping in focus of versus getting distracted by all the things that could go wrong, or all the challenges you've got?

Mike Bates: I think that the hardest thing, and I've spoken to quite a few ocean rowers now, the hardest thing is actually getting to the start line. I think the row itself, of course, it's extremely challenging. There's not many people who rowed across an ocean solo. There's many more who have done it as part of the team, but of course, they have people to rely on. You are literally on your own as a solo rower. So, the hardest thing for sure is funding it. It's the projects, it's gaining the sponsorship. And many, many don't make it to the start line.

Andy Murray: And because of the funding side of it. That's interesting.

Mike Bates: Yeah.

Andy Murray: Verses the physical preparation-

Mike Bates: It's purely a funding-

Andy Murray: ... the training. It's actually getting the sponsorship and the funding to do it.

I'm glad you said that, because I think for many people listening, the understanding of getting real clear about Where is your top barrier?, being able to focus on that and understand that, that's an attribute of people that do well in Quest. Because obviously those that tried it and didn't get to the starting line because of the funding, didn't understand the biggest problem they had to solve, right? They didn't understand how to do it, or they didn't break it down and solve it.

Mike Bates: Yeah. They probably thought it was something that would just happen organically, and it doesn't. I think you've got to become the ultimate marketer. You've seen me post on Instagram every single day. Every single day. My workout's up there, I have a number of brands, which I'm a proud ambassador of. And the reason they are backing me is because they know I'm out there doing it. I might be suffering alone, but I'm sharing that journey with everybody. And that's just getting people on board.

Andy Murray: That's great. And so, we've got this huge barrier, you've got to get the funding right, and every single day you're working on the funding through posting your training. It's not that you just like to post, to post, because I got to assume that's ... It's a distraction, it's a chore because you've got so much to do-

Mike Bates: It's another job. It's another job, for sure. Yeah.

Andy Murray: It's a job. Yeah. And I follow it every day, and it's just put to shame on every single level. I'd say inspired, is a better word. But it's kind of like there's no excuse. No excuse not to put into your routines the things that make you healthy, and it is going to be hard to do that. Anything else that you put in your routine? Tell me what a typical day looks like.

Mike Bates: Well, at the minute it's quite busy. I just started my own business as well, so it's pretty full at the minute. So, I train every single day. So, today for instance I got up, I make sure that I make time for my family every single day. That's really important. I think one could become easily over-focused on this as well. I know that it's a two and a half year project, it's not something that I can burn out on. I've got to maintain the momentum over time. So, I make time for my family every day, I take my kids to school, and then I came home. I worked, spoke to some customers then I worked out. I actually spoke to a lady about buying her boat. She's got a boat for sale.

And so, my day, at the minute it's quite varied, but in every single day since April, since I launched this company, through to the day I push off I'll be doing something to support this project. There can't be any days off, Andy, because if there's a day off you don't want it enough. It's as simple as that.

Andy Murray: Yeah. Well, and you have this concept called Oar Down, or something of that nature-

Mike Bates: Handle Down, yeah.

Andy Murray: ... tell me about that.

Mike Bates: Well, it's a rowing term. Handle Down. I mean, I'm 5'8" and a bit. I'm not built for rowing. I'm a grappler, that's what I've been doing. That's what I specialize in. Rowing's one of those exercises, unlike running, where it uses 84%, I think, of your muscles when you row. And a lot of legs, but a lot of back as well. And when you're doing intervals on the row, and you're kind of maxing out, it is a brutal, horrendous ... Everyone's seen ... Well, if you're into sport you'll have seen images of Sir Steve Redgrave and Matthew Pinsent being dragged off Concept2 rowers while they train for the Olympics.

It's awful. And there's a saying in rowing, “Handle down.” When the going gets tough, and every muscle's screaming, people put their handle down. It's easy, you're there, you put it down. I don't do that. 

I've made a vow to myself, for this project, and I've kind of done this since I joined the Marines, that I just don't give up. I'd rather someone found me laying in a pool of sweat in the garage, you know what I mean? Sarah has to come check on me every now and again to make sure I'm okay. But yeah, I just don't give up.

Andy Murray: Really curious, this idea of Handle Down, right now your training is so intense, how much of it is a needs to be that intense to do the physical challenge, and how much of it is you're mentally preparing yourself for a Handle Down temptation moments, to train your mind that you're not going to put it down?

Mike Bates: Yeah. It's both-

Andy Murray: How much of it is training your mind versus training your body?

Mike Bates: It's both. It's a good question, mate. It's both. So, one thing I did do, I've trained myself the last 20 years, but one thing I did to control the controllables was I took on a performance coach who has been to the summit of Everest. He trains professional golfers, racing drivers, and he's come on board to be my performance coach. A guy called Paul Keller. And he programs my training, and my training physically is really well-balanced, it's very holistic. We've built a really wide base in terms of my movement to make sure I don't get injured, and that we look after our recovery thing, but we do train intense.

The mental side's a good one. So, I've coined this phrase, the art of manly mindfulness. And for me, I don't go to a commercial gym. I go in my own garage, there's no heating, it's freezing cold, there's no one there, no one sees me do it. I suffer alone and I suffer in silence. And I do that because that trains and conditions and calluses my mind. So, when I'm on the ocean for that long I'm used to suffering alone. Yeah, I post my workouts on Instagram, they're all after the fact. There's a lot of people who workout and they do it for the camera, they do it to say, "I'm working out." That's not me. I'm in there on my own.

Andy Murray: Yeah. What a great picture, what a great way to think about things. Anything you've learned through the military experience that prepared you for this? Or has been part of your thinking on how to develop your mind this way?

Mike Bates: I don't think I would've joined the Marines if I wasn't this kind of character. It says to be a Royal Marine Commander 99.9% need not apply. There's only a very small number of people who are prepared to suffer to that level. We started with 60 recruits in our troop, and nine finished the course. So, it's pretty brutal. 

I think if we pulled it all back I think I'm probably, as we all are, but it's something to do with my childhood. My dad left, didn't have a great upbringing in that regard, I didn't really have a male role model. And I've always been fighting to prove to others that I'm capable of stuff. And I think if you do that long enough, you build this inner belief and this inner engine that just drives you forward no matter what.

Andy Murray: Yeah. Yeah. Well, boy, so much of life is...childhood experience does have a huge shaping effect on that, and what drives you forward, and how you think about things. And so, that's incredible.

 When you've gone through this and you think about what you had to go through mentally, and you see people in the workplace, and I know it's a different world and the corporate world, sometime. But quite honestly, research is telling us that 85% of people come to work and they don't feel like they're able to give their best self. They're disenfranchised, they're just disengaged. And what would you say to those people that are just going through the motions? Just disengaged?

Because you've obviously chosen to make some choices to say you get one trip around this big blue marble and you're not going to go around it disengaged. But a lot of people do feel stuck at times, they may want to do a bigQUEST and take it on but they just maybe feel like they don't have it in them. 

Are there small steps to get you to start thinking differently, and understanding you really, really can? I mean, you didn't start out this Quest as a guy that's already rode three times, and this is something you've never done before. And you've summoned the courage and strength to go for it, and that's what I want to see happen. I think it's so applicable. I want to see that happen for other people that are going through the motions of their job and thinking they can't change.

Mike Bates: Yeah. You see, I view it in a slightly different way to a lot of people. I think a lot of people think like you've just described, Andy, you take small steps and that each step gets slightly bigger, and you get closer. What I would encourage people to do is to dream really big, and dream past where you think you want to be. It's fantastic that people do like a Couch to 5K. They've never done any fitness, and they go and run three miles. That's brilliant. Why don't you sign up for a marathon? In five years time? That 5K will happen along the journey, but I want people to be more confident in themselves. I want people to dream bigger. You are the master of your own destiny, and nothing can hold you back. You've just got to have that inner courage. And like we spoke about in the beginning, it's the motivation. If you've got a good enough reason to do it ... If you wanted to run a 5K to get a medal it's not a big enough motivation. If you want to run 5K so you're fit enough to play out with your kids when you're a bit older, that's the motivation.

Andy Murray: Wow. That's interesting. You bring up to my mind a story I heard. 

I was mentoring this guy who had done well, and had some options in life and what to do next, and wasn't really sure. And I said, "What are you passionate about right now?" And he says, "Well, I love golf." And I said, "Well, how much do you love golf?" He put a machine in his basement that lets him hit balls, and he hits 500 balls every morning. And I said, "Well," and I said his name, "Whenever you find something that would make you give that up to go do it every day and be that excited, until you find that, you're going to still be struggling. Because anything that's worth something's going to cost you something."

Andy Murray: And I think people don't understand that ... And so, I asked him, "Until you find that thing that will make golfing ... You feel like you have to sacrifice that, and you love it dearly, and unless you're willing to sacrifice something, it's tough to have your life pulled to something bigger." I mean, the Wright brothers said, in building the airplane, first airplane, it's like, "We couldn't wait to get up in the morning." And I know that's probably not how you feel every day, given how hard it is-

Mike Bates: Definitely not, mate. Definitely not.

Andy Murray: But do you understand. I would say something to somebody in the workplace that's struggling is like, "What would get you so excited? What's the dream that's big enough that would cause you to sacrifice something you really like doing as a hobby?" Or something like that. Almost then I you may be on to-

Mike Bates: That's my point. That's my point, Andy. You're right. It has to be big enough. It can't be small, because it's not enough to pull you away from that thing you're so used to. We're creatures of habit at heart. I think humans, we want an easy life, we want to sit down and watch TV, we want to hang out and eat chocolate, whatever it is. But so, the dream, the inspiration, has to go and be big enough. And I would just encourage people to dream that little bit bigger. And to dream the impossible dream, because ... that sounds a bit of a cliché there, but if it's almost impossible you might just make it. And that's the thing that pulls me forward. And then you tick off all the small things along the way.

And it's not selling yourself short. I think, as people, we're all capable of so much more. But we just end up just doing the easy stuff. It's a real shame.

Andy Murray: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And Mike, I've heard people say, is, "Here's what you need to do if you're in business and such, is get a side hustle and have something on the side that you really ..." And man, I'm like, "No." A side hustle will not last, it's not big enough to pull you out of bed every morning. 

You've got to make your life the side hustle. It's not going to scratch the itch that you're looking for to give you meaningful work every day.

I had a dream to go build a company from scratch. That's what I always wanted to do. And I kept dreaming about it, dreaming about it, until I got to 33 years old and I'm like, "You know what? I can't do this on the side, I got to go all in." And so, we sold the house, sold the furniture, sold everything, and just put it all on the line, and had two weeks of cash to live on to do it.

And until I put myself in that position, my mind was not focused enough. But that focused my mind to say, "It's two weeks or we’re in a lurch." And the creativity that came out of that, and the ideas, and how the ... It couldn't have happened in a side hustle. 

I couldn't agree with you more on this idea: dream bigger than you think possible, almost to the impossible, and then give yourself a little bit — yeah, I might be able to do this. That's great. That's brilliant.

Mike Bates: I think also when you start to do that, then doors open up like you didn't even consider. So, when I thought about wanting to do this, and I made a decision that I was going to row across this ocean, I was in a job that I loved. I'd done it for 15 years. It's a job that people watch films about or read books about, very niche, very difficult to get into. And if someone would've said to me last year you would leave that profession, I would've said they were mad. 

But I've been doing this Quest now for six to nine months, and it's completely changed who I am. I didn't see that coming. But if you start to dream a bit bigger, you start to risk a little bit, you start to just try new things, so many more doors open. And then your life's unbelievable then because you don't really know what's going to happen next, and that's where we want to be. We want to be in that space where anything's possible. Not in the space where-

Andy Murray: I love it.

Mike Bates: ... we know exactly what's going to happen in the next five years.

Andy Murray: I love it, I love it. 

This is something that happens a lot on Quest, is that you think you got to have all the answers to all the problems you're going to face before you get started. But in my experience it's been that sometimes —  ideas come. You don't know where they're going to come from, but the ideas on how to solve those problems happen when you're down the road a bit. And if you try to do it and solve them all before you get going, you'll never get going. I mean, like you said, they find you. The answers find you, the people find you, just putting your life in motion things start to happen you can't explain.

Mike Bates: Sure. And I think it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy then because the more you push yourself a little bit, the more confident you become. The more confident you become, the bigger the dreams get. The bigger the dreams get, the more options present themselves. And it just all happens for you. But you've got to take that first step. You've got to dream big, and you've got to press the button. You've got to go for it.

Andy Murray: Yeah. That's brilliant. And I also have this hypothesis that once you start to solve big problems to get to that dream, you get better at solving the problems. You learn something about that, and I've said before these dragons you got to slay, they’re kind of out in the dragon hall of fame. Because they're going to be the same dragons, and no matter what you go after you get good at solving them. I'm not good enough, I don't have the resources, don't have the sponsorship from my boss, I don't have the authority to take it on. I'll never get everybody to help me that I need. These are the common things that everybody runs into all the time, and so you get good at solving them, you realize that these guys are very defeatable.

Mike Bates: Totally. Absolutely, mate. It's all relative as well. I don't want anyone listening to this thinking, "Oh man, I need to sign up and row and ocean next week because this guy's doing it." I think it's all relative. It depends what your starting point is. And I'll tell you a true story here, okay? 

So, I've just started my own business, my own Jiu-Jitsu academy in the middle of a global pandemic where contact sports is probably as far away as the best idea that most people would have. But I've done it. On Saturday we had an open day, and it was absolutely packed with people. Okay? And tonight I had a guy who came, he rang me this morning and we've had five conversations today on the phone. And he visited the academy with his family tonight, and it's the first time he's left the house in five months.

But he plucked up the courage, we spoke about how we can make this happen for him. He's always wanted to train in Jiu-Jitsu, he likes MMA, he likes watching it. But the guy's not been out of his house for five months. And today he went on a bigQUEST, just three miles down the road in his car. That's huge for him. 

So, it's all relative for you. We don't have to be world champions at things, or rowing oceans. You just got to think a bit bigger than you normally do, and then get on the road and get going.

Andy Murray: Yeah. And what's big for you personally may not be the same bigness for someone else. It's really about your personal ambition to do it and pushing yourself out there. So Mike, how can people help you? And we're going to get this podcast out there, but if someone wanted to follow you, participate, support, what's the best way for them to do that?

Mike Bates: So, you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook @theatlanticgrappler. You could check me out at And all information about what I offer in terms of sponsorship is on there. So, for people wanting to get involved, you could sponsor me 10 cents if that's your pocket money for the week and I'll be extremely grateful. There's a GoFundMe campaign out there, and links for the website. 

If you are a business who wants your brand to be on the front of my boat, again, we can discuss options there. But more than anything, Andy, I just want people to watch what I'm doing, and hopefully be inspired by what we do. And that is worth more than anything to me.

Mike Bates: So, just follow me, watch the journey, follow the boat across the water, and [crosstalk 00:32:14]

Andy Murray: Are there any key dates ... That's helpful, Mike. Thank you. Are there any key dates you're targeting between now and when you get to the starting line that's important for people to know about?

Mike Bates: I really need to have purchased a boat by the end of next year, the end of 2021. If I haven't secured the funding to be able to purchase a boat by then, then we're really in a bit of a tricky situation. It's kind of a chicken and an egg scenario where I need to front up the cash to purchase the boat, ship it, and do the training, because you have to do a lot of qualifying hours in the ocean. You have to do over 120 hours of rowing to even enter. So, I have to get the boat early enough to do that. And then I'll sell the boat back to somebody else the year after and give the money to charity. So, if I don't raise the money by the end of 2021, I have to ... Well, I will. I'll have to defer to the following year.

Andy Murray: Yeah, we don't want that to happen. What's your funding goal then for 2021? What's your goal?

Mike Bates: I've managed to raise 22,000 pounds. I don't know what that's in dollars these days. The pound's pretty weak with the current government. So, I've raised 22,000. I'm about a quarter of the way there, so I'd like to raise another 50,000 by the end of 2021. And that will fully fund this, which allows me 2022 to get on the water, get training, and really kind of focus on the row itself.

Andy Murray: Great. Well, that's helpful to know, man. Put those goals out there, let them know, and those are numbers that I think we can get to, and try to get to, and I'll do what I can to help because I understand what you're doing and why it's so important. And encourage others that are listening to this to drop in and check out what you're doing at the links in the show notes-

Mike Bates: Thank you, mate. Thank you.

Andy Murray: ... and anything else you wanna share? This has been quite fascinating, I really appreciate your time to do this.

Mike Bates: No, other than to say that my plan after the row is to write a book about, not just this experience, but my own take on ... You maybe had a flavor of it today, but I've boiled down what I believe mindset to be and the principles of that, and I think that hopefully can help people in the future achieve the things that they really want to achieve. And so, that's my passion going forward. It really is just helping as many people as possible, from the guy who's never left his house, to the guy who wants to row the ocean after me, or the girl, or whatever. I want to just be there to help as many people as possible, mate. So, if you need that help, get in touch.

Andy Murray: Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great. I love your attitude, I love the role modeling you do, it's quite an inspiration. And we'll be following along every step of the way. I'd love to get you back, and connect in maybe three or four months, and check in on you and keep people following on this story, and how it's developing. 

So, thanks again, Mike. I know it's getting late there in the U.K. And I just couldn't be more appreciative for your time, thank you.

Mike Bates: Thank you, guys. Thanks for your time, Andy. Appreciate it.