From Lakefront Legacy To Brook Park: Browns Future, Coaches, And Quarterbacks

What if the Browns’ next era starts with a new address and a new attitude? We dive into the looming stadium move to Brook Park and unpack why an indoor, multi-use venue could transform Cleveland’s sports economy—Super Bowls, Final Fours, mega concerts—while weighing the real impact on downtown businesses and fan traditions.

From there, we turn to the sideline. Todd Monken may not be the splashy headline, but we make the case for why an organized, veteran play-caller could be the right pivot after years of offensive churn. We revisit the Baker Mayfield to Deshaun Watson saga, distribute accountability across the building, and lay out how that decision still shapes today’s roster math and draft strategy.

Roster talk gets specific: rebuild the offensive line, secure a true WR1, and restore an identity that travels. We debate Shedeur Sanders’ upside versus turnover risk, outline Dillon Gabriel’s likely role as a steady reserve, and explain why clarity at quarterback starts with cleaner pockets and defined reads. Then we stack Stefanski against Browns history—does two Coach of the Year awards put him in the franchise top five?—and close with bold but reasoned 2025 win totals grounded in defense-first football and incremental offensive gains.

If you care about Cleveland Browns news, NFL coaching changes, QB development, and draft strategy, this roundtable hits every angle with candor and receipts. Tap play, then tell us: are you Team 10–7, 8–9, or 6–11? Subscribe, share with a fellow fan, and leave a review with your record prediction—we’ll read the best ones on air.

All music brought to you by former guest of the show Speedo

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the Ride Home Rants Podcast. This is your special guest, Fitty, on the ones and twos tonight, as we bring you the all things Cleveland Brown episode, our first round table where we talk about nothing but one team. And since we have the Browns who are entering the offseason here with a new coach, quarterback position up in the air, maybe a new uh stadium here in a couple years, as we all think. What a better way to bring you a show but talking about the Cleveland Browns. First and foremost, before we jump into the show about the Browns, make sure you peep all of our sponsors in the pre-roll and the post-roll, as they're small business owners and they are great supporters of the show. Make sure you also peep all of our guests today on all of their episodes that they are on, whether they were roundtables or individual shows. And make sure you check out all of our first six seasons here of Ride Home Rants with all of our guests, over 300 guests now in 300 shows. So without further ado, we're gonna dive in the All Things Cleveland Browns show with three fantastic guests talking about all things Cleveland Browns. So, guys, when you introduce yourself, we need your name. What month were you born? And then for the older people to know what this means from a nursery rhyme, but what would you rather be in your career? A butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker? And let's start with Mr. Cleveland himself, West Side Bill. Take it away.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Uh, as Fanny said, uh, Bill's the name uh out of West Side of Cleveland. Uh was born in November, end of November. So Sagittarius for those of you who follow that. And then oh man, you always got the uh fun and crazy question to start us off here. We'll we'll say Baker. Um, maybe can get creative with that, bake some different things, and then have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Okay, okay. The man, the myth, the legend, straight out of YSU. It once said he beat Pete the Penguin in a race, once also that he dressed up as Pete the Penguin to meet Pete the Penguin. Chris.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Hey guys, Christopher Marsco. Um, born in December, December 8th. Uh, let's see. I didn't have to say butcher, I'm a red meat kind of guy. I want to be able to make my own cuts, butcher.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Okay, okay. And again, he was Pete the Penguin, and he was so cool. He met Pete the Penguin himself later on to try to figure that one out. And then last but not least, the man the myth, the legend coming to us from Case Western Reserve University, 25 years strong, 22 as the head football coach. Greg.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Yeah, my name's Greg Doubleak. I was born in April and 100% a baker. I go to a bread place at least twice a week. I'm I'm kind of addicted to to fresh bread.

Browns Mount Rushmore Debated

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Okay. All right. You know what? Um, I think for me, I I would pick a butcher, I think, even though you you're in cold weather, you know, constantly, because right, you need to be cold around the meat. I can't bake, and I feel like being a candlestick maker has to be an art form. So I just don't think I would want to do, you know, the candlestick maker. And I don't want to be a bad baker because I can't make bad bread for coach. So um, and my birthday is in August. So we're not here to talk about birthdays, but we could do a show on nursery rhymes, it could be pretty cool. But guys, we're gonna talk about the all things Cleveland Browns show here. So um we're gonna dive right into this. So, and then let you think about this because I'll answer it first. But who is your Mount Rushmore of Browns players? Meaning, who are your top four Browns players of all time? I'm gonna be really curious to hear from you guys about this. But I'll go first to let you guys think. I'm gonna say, of course, Mr. Browns himself, Jim Brown. Then I'm gonna go with Otto Graham, Lou, the Toe Groza for 21 straight years. The toe was with the Browns, and um fun history. Note the toe signed 21 one-year contracts to be with the Browns, and then I'm gonna pick uh Joe Thomas, uh more recent memory for people. But uh Greg, what would you say? Who are your uh Mount Restmore players from uh the Browns?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Well, I I would say uh Brian Saipe, that that is my all-time favorite uh out of some great quarterbacks with the Browns. Uh Ozzie Newsome, uh huge Ozzie Newsome fan. Greg Pruitt. Uh I think he's incredibly underrated for the the versatility that he brought as a punt returner, kick returner, and running back. Um gosh, and I have let me let me pick it. And and Miles Garrett. I mean, he is just the for sure Hall of Famer, um, just freak athlete. A guy that is a game changer that and any coach would want him uh on their squad.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Okay. All right. Um, Stoy, how about you on this? What are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, this is a really good one. I think, you know, you think of the Browns recently, a lot of not so good teams, but definitely a storied history and a ton of really good players. But I think starting with Jim Brown, like you said, Fitty, I think darn good place to start. Um I'll go with Bernie Kozar, number two. Um, I think, you know, just as I was growing up, hearing my parents talk about the drive of the fumble and a lot of that stuff. I feel like went back to Kozar and their glory years there. And then I'll throw in Joe Thomas. Um, pretty much all of my growing up was Joe Thomas on the line and a lot of bad teams, but just how consistent he was kind of you know brought my fandom in there and then Miles Garrett to round it out. I think just how dominant he's been, um, and definitely a big part of my you know recent years watching the Browns. So uh we'll go with those four.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Okay, Chris, what are you saying about this?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

So I'm gonna go with my personal route, Mount Rush more, because you could get into I I think you hammered it with your four. Um I mean, you can get into the Joe Delamalores and Max Speedy's, and there's a lot of Hall of Famers you could get to, but uh, I'd say my four, uh, I'm gonna start with Clay Matthews. I wore uh 57 when I played football, and I was somebody that uh saw a lot of highlights of growing up, uh being a young football fan. Um Hanford Dixon, uh original dog. Uh I feel like the uh history with what's going uh with the franchise, still using the dog pal moniker and whatnot, and having a big uh hand in that. Uh Joe Thomas setting a record being an Iron Man, and then uh Bernie Kozar, being a youngstown Warren guy, uh him going to Boardman. That was always talked about quite a bit in the house uh moving forward whenever he was in town, uh having the chance to go see Bernie. I remember meeting him as a kid. So Bernie Kozar rounded out for me.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Okay, you know, I think it really it just depends, like I think, on where people grew up, right? With what era, you know, because some people have seen the great eras of the you know 50s, 60s, some people saw really the 80s, right, with Marty. And then some people didn't see it till, you know, the 90s when they came back to the 2000s, which really weren't that great. Yeah, some good players in there. I think there's you know, there's an argument for all those bands. Um, guys, one of the next um questions I want to get into is about the the possible moving of the stadium, which looks like it's gonna go um, you know, to Brook Park. Um, you know, and what are your thoughts about this stadium moving out of you know, out of downtown? You know, and I'll I'll kind of start here on this. And this has like you know been a big topic. I'm I'm sure Greg would agree, you know, working, um, you know, working in the higher ed space as well. You get a lot of people giving a lot of takes on this from like a financial and standpoint and things like that. But you know, I like this move because this isn't this isn't about the Cleveland Browns, this is about the Haslums, this is about Cuyahoga County, this is about what can be drawn to this stadium, right? My thinking is, and this is just my opinion, if your stadium for the Cleveland Browns hosts, say, eight to nine football games a year, okay, and you maybe get one concert and a SummerSlam there, okay? You're telling me that those eight games and and two events are gonna make or break the city financially when you have a very good Guardians team making the playoffs, you have a very good Cavs team making the playoffs, you have other corporate 100 and 500 companies down there and headquarters there. If we're talking about a football team bankrupting a city from a lawsuit and then the loss of revenue, I think we have some more major issues. Because the thing is, this stadium potentially is going to bring a Super Bowl here, it's gonna bring a national championship game here, a final four here, potentially the high school state football championships, you know, concerts that you just can't bring in right now, like Beyonce and the Ken, real big Kenny Chesneys, you know, Taylor Swift, even though I wouldn't see her if she was sitting across the table from me here, you know. But you're you're talking about there's all there's hundreds and hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars that are gonna be dumped, I think, back into the the city and the county, you know, off of this. Um, so I think Cuyahoga County and the city of Cleveland will still be fine. I just have major concerns if they're really thinking that this is gonna, you know, really bottom out the city, that eight football games, uh we just have some more issues than uh, you know, what do we think here? So, you know, Greg, you're a lifelong um, you know, Cleveland guy. You you've you've been around, you've met a lot of people, you know, and and you probably know this a little bit better firsthand with seeing them coming and going, the Browns originally. What are your thoughts though on this stadium potentially moving to Brook Park?

SPEAKER_03 14:29

You know, I I don't, you know, I don't know much about the the financials uh other than it it's gonna hurt some some businesses downtown. I I get that, that really thrive on those those eight Sundays a year, the restaurants and bars. Um that that yeah, that's gonna be hurting some people. But you know, I think there's a lot of positives about moving it out of in of the downtown area. Um, you know, I I I look at what the Buffalo Bills do, it that is definitely a a suburb of of uh Buffalo. Um and that hasn't taken anything away from the from those people and their feelings about it being a Buffalo team. So, you know, whether it's uh politics or you know, just the Hasl's getting a better deal, um I I like the move. I I think it will be easier to get there. Um it's a chance to start anew and kind of establish a new culture. Um and and it's it's I hate to say this, it's gotta be better what than what's been going on there for the last 20, 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah, yeah, and and I do think, yeah, some small businesses may get hurt for sure, but I think the money that will go back in the infrastructure of Cuyahoga County and and the city itself, I think, you know, it'll it'll be huge. And to your point about the Bills, right? They're in the suburbs, the 49ers are in Santa Clara, the Jets don't even play in New York with the Giants, they're in New Jersey, you know. So there is a lot of teams that don't play um, you know, in the actual city itself. But uh, you know, Mr. Cleveland here, what do you what are you saying, West Side Bill, about this?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah, I'm really in walk step with Greg on this one. I think, you know, you have your tradition of, you know, everyone, you know, growing up, going downtown, going to the game, maybe seeing some games in snow. Um, but it's absolutely done outside the city and many other, you know, teams, many other cities. And I think it is a chance to really a new era for the Browns. Um, it's supposed to be a beautiful stadium. Seeing the renderings looks like it's gonna be great. Um, obviously we'll take some time, I think, to get it all built up, get the restaurants out there. But I think a lot of the same restaurant owners that are downtown, um, if it's not working, hopefully there's an opportunity for them to, you know, put something over in the new Brook Park development and um, you know, create a living over that way. So it's a movement, and and maybe some restaurants, you know, if it is those eight, 10, 12 Sundays or days a year that impact them, hopefully they're able to find a new location and obviously get that done over there. But um, I I think the stadium is beautiful. Um, I'm okay with it being indoors, I'm okay with it being outside the city. And um, I think it's really a changing of the leaf and kind of a good thing for the Browns. And hopefully we can get some wins and uh some Super Bowls that we can play in over there as well. So I I I'm happy for it. I think it's a change in what to get used to new traditions, but I I think it's for the better.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Okay. Now, Chris, what are you saying about this? You're on mute, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Sorry. Probably live the furthest from Cleveland out of anyone in this uh pod tonight, but isn't Brook Park like across the street from Cleveland proper? Like it's extremely it's right there.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, like Brook Park really is it's right there and it's right but basically right by the airport where the stadium is.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

All right. So here's where I'm I'm struggling. I understand there might be a little hit with the businesses downtown not having that surplus of people charging that you'd expect. But with the stadium already not being downtown near those businesses, and like Stoy Point, it's gonna take a while for this Brook Park slash Foxboro Dreamland away from the city park that they want to build, almost like a Wrigleyville. Um, I still think that there's gonna be a ton of people that go downtown. So I'm not even, I guess maybe I'm naive to it, but I feel like there's still with the hotels and just the the need of where people are gonna have to stay, even if there is a Super Bowl. We're not gonna be able to have enough hotels all right there. There's gonna be a ton of people that stay in the city. So I guess maybe I'm skeptical with this, with the stadium already being on the lake and not being in the city. But uh, you know, I was also a season ticket holder for 11 years, um, from the time I got out of high school till just last year. And uh, you know, there is something special about playing football outside, but at the same time, you know, being selfish at this point in my life. Um, you know, the NFL is not exactly the pure version of the game anyway. So I don't I think if you want that nostalgia, there's Friday nights that you could attend and uh maybe get that feeling a little better. I think the events you could attract, the you know, fan experience that the Browns can create with this kind of environment being indoors and the only one in the division like that. Um I think it's not right to resist change. I feel like uh you resist change and I don't know, you just get grumpy as you get older. I feel like this is this is progressive of them, and uh it's all about the entertainment dollar at that level. So good.

Stadium Move To Brook Park

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yeah, and I and I completely 110% like agree with that too, right? Because this is also about like what I said, this is about other things coming to there, right? Like if you if we're outside, right, you you can't have concerts, you can't have winter activities going on. Like, this is more than just you know playing football outside. This is gonna be, I think, an an entertainment experience. So, going off of that, guys, I want to go into this next one. So, you know, the Browns do get rid of Stefansky. Um, I think a lot of people have seen that coming. They went through a pretty lengthy interview process that I think was surprising to a lot of people, and they settled on um Todd Munkin uh as their new head coach, a former OC across many, many years here. So were you guys like, did you like this? Were you surprised with this? Do you think he's gonna do well? You know, I know Jim Schwartz, people were really keen on him, maybe his second act from being with the Lions, you know, Sean McDermott was out there. You know, I don't even think they they reached out. You know, you did have McCarthy before he went to the Steelers. Um, you know, you had a you had a few guys out there that that maybe could have been potentially, you know, better options. But uh, Greg, let's start with you. Do you like this higher or you know, do you think this is outside the box? Did you expect someone else? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Well, uh I think it's inside the box for sure. I mean, it's a proven veteran. He has head coaching experience in college. Um he seems organized. You know, as a head coach, it's all about alignment, is keeping all of your coaches on the same page, um, is being on the same page as your general manager uh and ownership. Um, so he's been around. Um and he's a proven uh offensive uh mind. And I I I don't think anybody could dispute he's done good things at the places he's been at, you know, including the University of Georgia uh where he had a lot of talent, but he knew how to use it. So yeah, I mean it's it wasn't a sexy hire, it wasn't uh a hire that the media, I think, would get excited about, but I think he's a solid football guy, and uh he he seems to have good leadership skills.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

So okay, okay. Bill, what are your thoughts on on this hire?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, I mean, it it he definitely was not on my my top choices. I don't think I saw him on really anyone in the the media's, you know, top two or three hot hires coming into the year or coming into the the coaching search and um kind of came out of the radar, I think, even towards the end. So um I was a little bit surprised. I think they were looking at some younger, um, younger coaches and um that combined with Schwartz. I I was uh I was happy they did not go with Schwartz at head coach. Not that I don't think he would have been successful. I just think we needed a bigger overall culture change. Um, and I think if you know Schwartz just kind of maybe slides in a spot, you know, Safancy out and him in, maybe not as much changes. So I did want to see a new guy at the helm, someone from outside of the the team. Um and you know, since hiring him, I've watched some of the press conferences and I I like him. I like what he's saying, and I think he um, you know, brings a little bit of hard-nosed uh football and uh seemed excited about being here. So I'm excited about him. We'll see where it goes. Um, we've had plenty of head coaches, and um, he wouldn't be the first one that didn't work out if it happens that way, but um yeah, I'm a big fan and um I'll be rooting for him.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Okay. Chris, what are you thinking about this hire?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

So I always thing with a hire with coaches because I always laugh we get hired to get fired. And, you know, you think about the time that the franchise is ending in flux of offense. Uh typically when you go from a calm head coach that uh, you know, maybe isn't very vocal to a guy that, you know, a little more of a buck kicker. You know, he's gonna he might choose somebody out in a press conference. So I like it from the the the stance of it is changing the culture in a big way. Um I also like that it is, I guess, outside of the box or or like Greg said, in the box, he's he's proven, but he just hasn't had an opportunity. So, you know, I feel like in many ways, sometimes you get lucky. I don't feel like the process was very clean. I felt like as a fan the entire time watching it, that as smart as they are, they're making it more complicated than it had to be. And it it I felt like they were maybe more clueless at times, and I'm sure they actually were because what do I know? But uh I like to hire him. I'm I'm good to give him a chance. I I I I think he brings a lot of things that maybe we were lacking, and uh, you know, he has a lot of good experience, so we gotta give him a chance.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Okay, okay. Now I'm really curious to hear your guys' take on this one, you know, and and and truly I I want to know your opinion on this. You know, whose fault was the Baker Mayfield to Deshaun Watson debacle? Was it was it Stefanskys? Was it Sashi Brown? You know, was it was it the Hasl's or was it all of them? Because to what they did to Mayfield to get rid of them, to go do what he's done now in Tampa Bay, to get Watson with that whole disaster with the draft picks that made the Texans now be great, you know, and be in the divisional round three years in a row, to just, you know, the Buccaneers then ascending, and you know, just just whose fault like was this? Because, you know, we've all been fans, you know, people have coached on here, played football on here. You know, that that looked probably as bad as as anything imaginable. Um, you know, and and Chris, I'm gonna start with you on this. Like, whose fault was this overall?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Well, I I have on good merit knowing uh close friends that are relatives of Alex Van Pelt that uh the beef me with Stefanski and Baker was very real behind the scenes. Um and I think that's very evident still with the comments that Baker just made uh towards the fanski getting hired in Atlanta. So I I feel like that probably got the ball rolling. There was uh not much backing by the head coach. It seems as though that Green Bay game on uh I believe it was Christmas Day, um almost fed him to the wolves saying, all right, you want to be tough guy here, you know. I believe through like five or six interceptions of a terrible game he played, but uh that got the ball rolling, I feel like, at the beginning of the year. And uh I believe when this whole thing hatched with Watson, they mentioned that uh they started doing their homework real heavy in October. So they knew before that season was even over that they're maybe gonna make the switch. So I feel like it started with uh lack of confidence from the Coach who asked to uh cook with the ingredients for an analogy, and um you know that got the front office thinking of all kinds of different ways to act smarter than uh everyone else. That's how you get a debacle like that.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Okay, Bill, what's your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, I think the the comments by Baker recently are pretty darn interesting, and um, I think as you see Stefansky out here, uh Andrew Barry still in as the GM that maybe kind of telling as well. Um, I think you know, I I don't know if I wouldn't know for sure whose fault it was, but uh I think Stefansky probably is the one that takes the big portion of the blame. Um, and definitely was you know having a riff between Baker and um I think you know Jimmy Haslum probably has a a little bit of skin in the game as well, and I think obviously probably signed off on um the Deshaun Watson trade and and bringing it in. So I don't think it's maybe any one individual, um, probably uh you know spread across amongst um four or five of them, but um I think Stefansky's definitely the the biggest one, and he's certainly the scapegoat in the situation, losing the job and um having injured berry still there. So um we'll go with Stefansky number one, but probably all of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Okay, and Greg, what's your opinion on this?

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Well, I I guess the perception is Stefansky uh or Haslam. That's the perception, but without sitting in those meetings and knowing what people really feel, um obviously there were people in the building that did not want Baker Mayfield around. Um what what amazes me is why I I thought Kirk Cousins was the fit um because he had been in Minnesota with Stefansky. Stefansky's uh preferred offense is run-oriented oriented play action, um, which is right up Kirk Cousins alley. And they were so successful with the 37-year-old Joe Flacco or 39, or however, he was old. Um so it it it didn't seem to be a good fit. It was destined to to break apart eventually. Um, and they took a big swing on Watson and and they missed. Um so I guess I guess long answer, but I guess the perception would be Stefansky and Hansel.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Sure. And I think um, you know, I don't know if a lot of people know this or not, and and maybe we'll let Chris fact check me here, like we did on the Hawaii football show. But I'm pretty sure, like before they traded for Watson, it was something like all the years Watson started for the Texans. I think he only led him the one playoff appearance. I think he had like two four and twelve seasons and maybe like a five and eleven. And sure he won awards and things like that, but he actually never like elevated the team to actually go and be successful. But Chris, you can fact check me on that and let me know. I thought that was something I uh I read before. So now, guys, going into something a little bit different here, right? So last year for the draft, the the 2025 draft, arguably the Browns had the best draft, if not the second best draft. You know, arguably the Giants and the Browns were one and one A or one and two, however you want to look at it. Um, you know, and and the Browns had a lot of young guys, you know, uh play for him this year and then have some success. So going off of that and building into this new new era with the new coach, you know, and new offense, you know, potentially new defense here if Schwartz isn't back, you know, what is the the Browns' biggest needs, you know, whether it's two or three things or even four, you know, here in the draft. You know, Greg, let's start with you. What are the biggest needs in the draft this year?

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Well, it's it's all on offense. I mean, I I don't know if if drafting a quarterback would be the smart thing, um, because I I don't see a quarterback at their position in the draft that you could hang your hat on it for a career. Um offensive line is a must, and and receiver is a must. Whether that comes from drafting or free agent or both, um that's what has to happen. Um you can you can get away with an average quarterback uh if you have the components around him to elevate him. Um but boy, it there's a lot to address on the offensive side of the ball.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Sure. I agree with you on that. I I really do think their their first, you know, a couple round picks really, I think, got to be the offensive line. I think you gotta like solidify that offensive line. You almost got to think back to that'd have been what the 2006 draft with the New York Jets, right? You went to Brickeshaw Ferguson at four. You went, you know, rest in peace, Nick Mangold, though, from Ohio State, I think, at 29. And that you anchor a whole offensive line for 10 years then with two guys. I almost really think the Browns need to have like kind of that, you know, truly that approach with this draft. But West Side Bill, what are you saying about this?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, I think the same thing. It's O-line and wide receiver. I think, you know, our argument can be made. We'll have four, five new starters on the offensive line, you know, maybe three, but um really I think building that thing from the ground up. So we'll see what happens at free agency. But um, I think you'd really like to come out of the draft with probably two two new young starters on the offensive line, um, fill in with a couple free agents and um see if we maybe bring back Teller or Bretonio or something like that. And then desperate need for uh an outside playmaker, um, number one wide receiver. Um, I think a lot of teams would love one, but um, we definitely need one. You know, got a couple serviceable guys, a wide receiver, but nobody that I think really scares the defense too much right now. So um, you know, we can find a wide receiver one and a couple starters on the O-line in the draft. I think he come out pretty happy.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Okay. And for people that don't know, Bill was a high school teammate of former NFL player Billy Price. Played for Ohio State and in the NFL for a number of years. Bill was uh was a lineman with uh with Billy Price. So just a fun fact right there. All right, Chris, what are your uh what's your take on this? Um Brown's draft needs.

Todd Monken Hire Evaluated

SPEAKER_01 33:10

They've almost pigeonholed themselves with the way that the Watson deal fell and all of the offensive linemen that they're losing. They've struggled a wide receiver probably since they got rid of Jovis Landry. I'd say there's been a void of uh not only leadership, but also consistent production year after year. Um and then the offensive line you're gonna be losing so many people. Conklin's at the point in his career where the injuries are really starting to mount up. Uh Taylor's gonna be gone. Um Pomeo's gonna be retiring uh this year, if not next. There's just a lot of needs. Duan's struggling to stay healthy early on in his career, unfortunately. So yeah, they they'd better uh address the offensive line a lot out through the draft because with the restrictions they still have financially with the Watson contract, they don't really have any other options on how they want to build that. And uh, you know, to Greg's point, it's really hard to uh put a quarterback, whether it's Sanders or anyone else in the draft or in the future, however, that falls. Um there's a there's a void of protection and weapons, and you are a product of those around you. It's the ultimate team game, it's not basketball where one guy makes up 20% of the team. So they they they better get busy in their scouting there because they they have multiple picks that they need to use to address those areas.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Sure. So, guys, I'm looking really curious on this. Now, you know, Greg would remember the the old Browns and and the new Browns. Um, you know, Bill would have been little when the Browns left, Chris would have been little with the Browns left. I remember a little bit of the original Browns. Um, but in your opinion, and you really meant to think about this, is Kevin Stefansky a top five Browns coach of all time? You gotta think about this because there could be an argument one way or the other. But uh but Greg, you you've you've been in Cleveland a long time, you've seen a lot of Browns coaches. Is Tefansky a top five coach of all time?

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Well Paul Brown won. Okay. So I don't think anybody uh can dispute that. Um Marty Schottenheimer, another I believe Marty's in the Hall of Fame. Uh Marty's not in the hall of fame. He is not in the hall of fame, my goodness. I know he shouldn't be. Um because he did he did some great work in Kansas City. And um uh boy, I'm uh you know, Butch Davis, you know, taking that wreck of of a franchise from when they were just had all the cards stacked against them uh when they came back, and then shortly after he took over taking them to the playoffs, that was an incredible job. Um Bill Beljack, uh you know, people forget he took over a three and thirteen team and his third year there in the playoffs, and it fell apart when the move came out. So I I think five at best. Um one else comes to mind, so let's put him at five. Okay. Now great. Um love Sam. Got got to know him. He he would visit our uh our campus all the time. Okay, yeah, he he stopped by Prax a few times. And one of the highlights of my career at Case was he came by, he had a mutual friend on our staff, and he came by with an overhead projector and was drawing up offensive plays and talking about well, this is what we did with Ozzy, and this is we put Brian Brennan here. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

So it, you know, if nobody didn't check out Greg's show, um, definitely check it out. He talked about on that when he coached Cam Brown, Mike Brown's uh son, uh the coach of the Knicks, and Mike Brown did a presentation to the uh the football team. Um, you know, so Greg has all types of great stories. Always great to talk about talk with Greg about the great stories. But, you know, before Chris and Bill answer this, you know, this is hard, right? Because when we're looking at topics, and then you really start looking at Brown's coaches. Sure, you take away Paul Brown, you know, Marty, four years, two AFC championship games, three playoff appearances, you know, multiple playoff victories that he had there. You know, you could bring in potentially Sam into that equation, maybe Butch Davis. You know, you could make the argument for Belichick, maybe, you know, and then you really got to think like, man, this could be like Stefansky. Now you can also make an argument for the guy, and I forget his name, but he's the one that replaced Paul Brown.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Um, and he wanted to call your he's on my list.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Yeah, he won a champion at 64 with them. So it it you know, Stefansky makes a it does have a compelling argument. I mean, six years, only two winning seasons, and maybe one of your best coaches ever. Chris, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah, so I I started writing as soon as you said this. I want to make sure I got it all down. So I went Paul Brown, Blaine Collier, Marty Schottenheimer, Sam Ratigliano, and then I had a three-way tie for fifth place with Butch, Kevin, and Bill Belichick, because I feel like their accomplishments and time spent in the franchise. Coach Belichick's unfortunately sure with the move, but uh their compliments, accomplishments, and tenure length were uh similar to each other. And I feel like the four I mentioned before that were all very um entrenched with their era and their accomplishments uh during that time. So yeah, pretty I I'd say pretty clear to me, but I mean you could debate, like you said, fifth at best versus Defanski. I feel like it's all preference from there. I feel like those two coach of the year awards are also part of the uh wow, he took the Browns to the playoffs. Like that's that's so hard. That that's like extra. Like I he must be doing a heck of a job. So not that to undermine his accomplishments, but I also feel like uh, you know, that's a storyline award. And I don't think it hurts that the Browns having a consistent lack of success prior to him being there and him going to the playoffs relatively early. Um doesn't hurt his case for that award.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So sure. Okay. Bill, what are you saying about this?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah, I think, you know, two-time coach of the year. Um, I I'll put him in the five slot. I I think he is a good coach. I really do. Um, I do think it was time to get rid of him here, but um, you know, brought us to the playoffs, got a playoff win. Um, unfortunately for the Browns, the uh the the difficulty of getting on this top five list is maybe one of the easiest in the NFL. So um by default, but I I'll say yeah, I think we'll see put him in the five slot. Um, think he did a lot of good things. And um, like I said, I do think he's a good ball coach. And if he gets in the right system with a good quarterback, and I know he's down in Atlanta, got some talent down there. I wouldn't be surprised to see them have a successful offense. So uh I think he's a good ball coach, did a lot of good things for us. New era our way, but um, we'll slide him in a five and um hopefully we can replace him with our new head coach here before too long.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

You know, it it's just crazy, right? When you think about it, like, you know, even he did win a playoff game, but only two winning seasons out of six, and you know, he can make people's top five, you know, ever. It's kind of it's kind of crazy. It's like right there with uh with the Jets, how bad their coaches have been outside of like we bubanks and and Bill Parcells, you know, then you have like Rex Ryan and maybe Herman Edwards. So um, although probably a little bit better of a list than the uh the Browns. So um, guys, I want to dive into this one. And Greg, you've been a football coach a long, long time. You've coached a lot of quarterbacks. You know, I'm really curious to hear this. Um, you know, in your in your opinion, you know, um, is Dylan Gabriel or Shadur Sanders a long-term answer, a quarterback for the Browns? Um, you know, how long can these guys hang on, even being pro football players?

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Yeah, so it it's it's interesting because, you know, uh obviously Shadur has shown flashes. Um he has some moxie, um, he can make some plays. But what NFL coaches want is to not turn the ball over. And to me, what I've seen from him, boy, he he is going to turn the ball over. Um not saying that, he he came from a system that was as far away from an NFL system as possible. And that that was the the pre-draft fall was when people started taking a look at his tape and not just his statistics. He just wasn't ready to come in. And I and I think uh the the Browns handled the situation right. Um they would have thrown him to the wolves if he would have been the starter right from the beginning. So uh I I see potential, but uh where is the ceiling? Is he still just gonna be okay? So that that's really hard because you're gonna have to invest a lot of time into him, and then maybe two or three years down the road, you're gonna say, yeah, he just he's just never gonna get to that ceiling to to get us to where we need to. Um that is a tough decision, and that's why those guys get paid so much money to make those decisions.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Sure. So what do you think about Dylan Gabriel?

SPEAKER_03 42:43

I I think he's a career backup. A guy that can come in and run your offense and not make mistakes and have the defense win games for you. Sure. I I don't think he's a guy that you put the franchise on your back and carry you to the Super Bowl. I don't think that's any any any possibility. Um, but hey, Brock Purdy, who who saw that coming? Um what he's done, I I think he's one of the best quarterbacks in football. And I just didn't see that coming, coming out of college. So um, yeah, but I, you know, from what I've seen, I'm just giving you what, and I'm not analyzing Brown's games. I'm trying to figure out how to, you know, how to beat Washington and Jefferson, but um that that's the thing, like what's the ceiling? And if we got rid of Baker because we didn't think he could take us to the Super Bowl, uh boy, I don't know if these guys' ceilings are are better than Baker Mayfield's.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Sure, sure. Okay, Chris, you know, you're uh you're a newly uh appointed football coach, head football coach, right? You know, gonna have to kind of see both sides of the ball now from being a defensive guy. You know, but as a fan of the Browns and as a coach, you know, what are what are Sanders and Gabriel's ceilings here in the NFL? Can they make it? Are they gonna be career backups? How long are these guys gonna be in the NFL for?

Baker To Watson: Who’s Responsible

SPEAKER_01 43:59

I'll start with Dylan Gabriel, and I hate being this guy because I'm very much in uh his side of the coin on this. But uh, when you're playing in the NFL in the land of giants and you're uh five, five foot nine, five foot ten at best, you just I I don't know how many guys have panned out like that. I mean, I think the only true success story consistently during his career is maybe Frank Tarkington. That was way before my time. But I don't know if there's been anyone that short since then with any measure of success uh to that level. So I I I don't know if there's even a career backup role for him. I feel like Cole McCoy um, I don't know, showed more where you could at least, you know, have him make a play here or there. I feel like Dylan Gabriel, and it's early in their career too. I feel like both of them, you don't exactly know what they are until you're two or three. But um, you know, I there there's there's a stature of limitations with him. Like he he could only his ceiling's very apparent to me. Now, when I I think of Shadur Sanders, you know, I I also think yes, they were right not feeding him to the wolves, but I I feel like they had a very flawed plan. We gave all these reps to Kenny Pickett, and you know, uh we drafted both of these guys, and our answer was Kenny Pickett, really. I mean, I don't, again, far be it for me, heck, I got my own problems. I I've just got my first staff assembled, so I don't, far be it for me to tell them how to do this, but uh I I just don't really know how much they invested in him from even giving him reps to have an opportunity for success. I feel like uh, you know, coming in with the lack of experience in an NFL scheme, like Greg pointed out, they didn't exactly do anything to you know help him with that learning curve. So I'm interested to see how that goes this year because I don't believe that they're gonna make a very high investment in the draft on a quarterback. So I'm anxious to see because I I think they're both gonna get ample reps this offseason. But um, there's at least some tools with Shadur that you can say, okay, wow, yeah, there have been some flashes here. He he's shown some moments of success. I really don't know how that's ever gonna happen with Gabriel.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Okay. Bill, what's your opinion on this?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, I think largely the same. I think when you think of Dylan Gabriel, um, you know, it watched a lot of games with him, uh, not throwing the ball too much further than five yards, ten yards down the field. A lot of check downs, didn't seem like the confidence was there, and um didn't really see the flashes uh that I think you saw with Shadur. So um, you know, wasn't always sunshine and rainbows with Shadur either, but I I think as Greg said, he brings a moxie that I think a lot of Cleveland really wants to attach to. Um, and I think we'll get the opportunity, and I want to get the opportunity to see him play this year. Um, hopefully we can put together a good offensive line and some weapons around him and really find out. Um, you know, from there, I mean, obviously, if you don't have a good good year, he doesn't look too well, then could look into the draft again next year. But uh I really think the the trajectory ahead is fix some of the offense and and give this guy an opportunity because I think he really is what um Cleveland would like to be as a quarterback. You know, um has a a big name and um a lot of moxie to him. So I think Cleveland really does would like to see him um you know succeed and attach to him. So um I'm excited to see him this year and think we'll find out a lot and um hopefully he he does well and can be the quarterback of the future, but um definitely got to build around him and and find out what he's really made of once once you have an offense built around him.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Sure. And and you know, I would I would say with these two guys, I I do think long term, I would say Gabriel's out of the NFL probably in five years. I would say he's probably ceiling's no greater than what Bryce Petty was with the Jets. Um, just a career third string guy, probably get out, maybe go GA somewhere, you know, get in the coaching type of deal. You know, Sanders, I think he'll be a spot starter type of guy. Um I think, I think you gotta people must realize too, there's money still with Watson, right? And if they're paying, they're gonna pay Watson whatever fifty million dollars again. They're not gonna I don't think Haslam's gonna eat fifty million dollars and make Watson his third string quarterback and lose all that again. I think the reps will go to Watson, they will give it to Watson, and then because sadly, probably Watson gives them the best chance to win six, seven. Maybe eight games with his ability, or they blow the whole thing up and they maybe trade for Tua or Kyler Murray. So I think that's kind of what it's going to be. I don't think Sanders gets a second contract with the Browns. I think they're on four years or three-year contracts, even right now, with being uh the late round draft picks. So we'll see. But guys, want to get into this. What is your prediction for the Browns record next season? West Side Bill, you shook your head at me when I said that about Sanders. So I want to hear your opinion. What's the Browns record next year?

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I was shaking my head. I don't think we're seeing Deshaun back on the field for the Browns. Um, I certainly don't hope don't hope we see him anytime soon. So um we'll we'll go let's be optimistic. Why not? Right? We're on a everything Cleveland Browns show. So um give me give me a surprise of the year. Defense leads us to a 10 and 7 year. We seek in the back of the uh back of the wild card and see what we can do there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Chris, how about you on this?

SPEAKER_01 49:57

I don't know. I guess I'm too young to say they've broken me down, but I don't I find it hard to be that optimistic. I see probably six and eleven at best. Maybe if we do go seven and ten, I mean, I feel like that would still be market improvement over where they were last year, but I don't I don't know. It's a hard division. Even with the amount of experienced coaches leaving, there's still Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, uh Steelers culture and way of doing things that they pull you down, make you play in the mud, their style. And um I just think they have a long road to hoe in terms of who they have to play twice every year. I I I think six, seven wins would be improvement. So I'm gonna be modest. I feel like that would keep everyone happy, say at least the arrow's pointing in the right direction, and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Okay. Greg, how about you on this?

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Yeah, I'm gonna go eight and nine. Um, again, that there's improvement there. I I can't see how the offense doesn't get better. Uh there's no place to go but up. And they do have one of the premier defenses uh in the NFL. So let's go eight and nine and get that trajectory going upwards and um hoping to to pay off in in a few years.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Okay, I'm gonna go seven and ten. Um, I think they do have a chance to win some games. And Chris, to your point, you brought this up. Although I do think because Harbaugh left after so long, Minter, it'll take some time to implement what he wants to do because people are gonna be like, well, we always did it this way, right? McCarthy's gonna come in there unproven quarterback with the Steelers. I think McCarthy's a great coach, but you know, starting over, you know, after 19 years or 18 years, whatever those guys, two guys were there with, right? Zach Taylor might be on the hot seat, might be a little bit on the hot seat, you know, Burrow may want out. Hey, who knows? Maybe Joe Burrow goes to the Browns, keeps it in state, right? Um, you know, but I I do think they'll have a chance to get, I think, four wins in the division itself. You can sneak another three, you know, seven and ten could be a good way to good way to go. All right, guys, we're gonna round the out the show with this question. Um, and we're gonna start with you, Chris. Who is your favorite Browns player of all time? Your favorite personal Browns player.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I'm I'm still gonna say Clay Matthews, still a little bit before my time, but pick my number off of him, the way he played, the longevity had uh both played linebacker. Um, I just always wanted to emulate the way he played the game and tried to be like him when I played. So Clay Matthews.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Okay, Bill, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Uh, we'd go Joe Thomas. Uh growing up uh offensive lineman, that was um kind of the you know, seeing Joe Thomas at 73 jerseys in the stands and stuff kind of made it be a little bit cool to be an offensive lineman, um, where a lot of times it wasn't. So I was kind of the idol growing up and watched him through most of my kind of playing career. So um we'll say Joe.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

You know, Bill, I mean, you you were right next to you know uh Billy Price too. So I mean, you know, you had you know Joe Thomas, you were watching him, and you were watching the guy right next to you go on to the NFL. So yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of good guys around with that. And Greg, I know you mentioned this earlier, but you know, who's your favorite Browns player of all time?

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Yeah, I've Brian Sype, you know, cardiac kids. You know, there's a guy he Brian Sype, I believe, was 5'11. Um, he did not get drafted. Um, I mean, he never should have been an NFL quarterback. He was MVP of the NFL in 1980. Just remarkable. And and Chris, Clay Matthews is probably uh the freakiest athlete you can make an argument to ever play in the NFL. He started at linebacker. I think he was 42 years old with the Atlanta Falcon. I mean, just how does that happen at linebacker? Just absolutely crazy and just a crime that he is not in the Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, you know what I mean. Even about the iconic flow. I mean, it's not like Pat Tillman flow, but I mean he he had that crazy guy look to him. He looked like a ball player, you know.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

He's but yeah, he was a California dude. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

You know what? And and with all the the controversy around the Hall of Fame, you know, with with Belichick and Kraft right now, let's make sure we don't forget about you know Clay Matthews, and let's not forget about Marty Schottenheimer, you know, one of the greatest coaches ever, you know, took multiple teams to the playoffs, multiple coach um, multiple years winning 10 plus games with multiple franchises. So let's not uh let's not forget about Marty out there for all the people um who remember Marty Schottenheimer, the dad of uh Brian Schottenheimer. And for people that don't know, Marty Schottenheimer went to the same high school uh at different times, though, but as uh as same school as Marvin Lewis, Fort Cherry, Pennsylvania. So Fort Cherry, Pennsylvania produced Marvin Lewis and Marty Schottenheimer. So uh Marty was a uh great coach. Shout out to uh Mike Worrell, who's been on here, big supporter of uh of Marty. Wants him definitely in the Hall of Fame. Although sadly, Marty has a 5 and 13 playoff record, which I think um is detrimental to his his Hall of Fame um prowess. So, but that's gonna do it for this week's episode of the Ride Home Rants podcast, as we talk about all things Cleveland Browns and covered a lot of topics. It was a lot of fun hanging out with Greg and Chris and Bill, and thank you guys for being on the show talking all things Cleveland Browns. As we go into the offseason here, you know, see if some of our predictions hold true, especially about the draft and what the Browns do at the quarterback position. As always, if you like the show, be a friend and tell a friend. And if you didn't like it, tell them anyways. They might like it just because you did it. This is Fitty signing off, and we will see you next week.