Episode 347: The Paid Ads Playbook for Boutique Fitness & Wellness Businesses: Interview with Roger Martin Thrive More Paid Ads Agency

Paid Ads That Actually Work for Boutique Fitness & Wellness Businesses with Roger Martin

Are your Facebook and Instagram ads generating clicks—but not clients? Or are you spending money on paid advertising without seeing a real return?

In this episode of the Female emPOWERed Podcast, Christa Gurka sits down with Roger Martin, founder of Thrive More Autopilot, to break down what actually works with paid ads in 2026. Roger shares the biggest mistakes studio owners make with Meta advertising, why most agencies fail brick-and-mortar businesses, and the small changes that can dramatically improve your return on ad spend.

If you own a Pilates studio, cash-based physical therapy practice, yoga studio, gym, or boutique fitness business, this episode is packed with practical marketing advice you can implement right away. 

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

•  Why most paid ads fail before they ever go live 
•  The biggest targeting mistakes fitness and wellness businesses make 
•  How to create ad creative that actually stops the scroll 
•  Why your headline matters more than your offer 
•  The importance of landing pages, Meta Pixel, and tracking conversions correctly 
•  What click-through rates and conversion rates you should realistically expect 
•  How to build irresistible introductory offers that convert 
•  Why testing and optimizing—not "set it and forget it"—wins with paid advertising 
•  The biggest difference between marketing online businesses and brick-and-mortar studios 

About Roger Martin

Roger Martin spent 25 years in the pharmaceutical industry before becoming an entrepreneur and co-founding RockBox Fitness, helping grow the franchise to more than 60 locations. He later co-founded Beam Light Sauna, scaling the brand to over 50 locations before its acquisition.

Today, Roger is the founder of Thrive More Autopilot, a boutique digital advertising agency specializing exclusively in helping brick-and-mortar fitness, wellness, recovery, and physical therapy businesses generate more qualified leads and grow profitably through paid advertising. 

Resources & Links

🌐 Thrive More Autopilot: https://thrivemore.ai

📅 Schedule a Discovery Call: Available through the Thrive More website

🌐 Learn about Fit Biz Accelerator: https://christagurka.com/accelerator

Connect with Roger Martin

•  Instagram: @realrogermartin
•  LinkedIn: Roger Martin (Real Roger Martin) 

Connect with Christa

🌐 Website: https://christagurka.com

📸 Instagram: @christagurka

🎙️ Subscribe to the Female emPOWERed Podcast for weekly business strategies to help Pilates studios, physical therapy practices, and boutique fitness businesses grow profitably.

SEO Keywords

Paid ads for fitness businesses, Facebook ads for Pilates studios, Meta advertising, boutique fitness marketing, physical therapy marketing, digital marketing for gyms, fitness lead generation, Facebook advertising, Instagram ads, Roger Martin, Thrive More Autopilot, Christa Gurka, Female emPOWERed Podcast. 

Transcript

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 0:00

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Female Empowered podcast. I'm your host, as always, Christa Gurka, and you guys know I always love a guest episode, and I am honored to have Roger Martin here. He... We are gonna talk all things digital marketing, but specifically paid ads. And so I'm really excited to have Martin here. He has actually a really... I'm gonna read your bio, and then we'll talk about it, because I think you have an interesting origin story to how

Roger 0:30

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 0:31

up here. But, you started in the pharmaceutical indus- industry. So after 25 years in the pharmaceutical industry, Roger left his COO role to become an entrepreneur and co-found Rock Bottom Fitness, which grew to over 60 locations. in 2021, Roger co-founded Beam Light Sauna and scaled that franchise to over 50 locations prior to selling the brand to a larger platform. now runs Thrive More Autopilot, a boutique digital aid, advertising agency focused specifically on helping brick-and-mortar fitness and wellness locations rapidly grow, which is why he's here today to talk to us about marketing. Specifically, we're gonna talk about paid ads in the fitness and wellness space, and specifically brick-and-mortar. And so I'd love to hear a little bit you, Roger, of how you, how that transpired to, like, where we are today.

Roger 1:31

Sure. Yeah, a fair question. So after I decided that I wanted to exit the pharmaceutical industry that I spent twenty-five years in, and become a- an entrepreneur, I really wanted to focus on health and wellness. I really believe that exercise, nutrition, mental health, and, maybe a little supplementation is the key to longevity and having a long health span, not just lifespan. this is coming from a guy who spent twenty-five years, managing armies of sales reps that sold pills and shots to, to people. but it's just, it's more true to my values. And so I co-founded a brand called Rockbox Fitness, a boxing, kickboxing, and strength training brand. And I, myself, to acqui- And I built three locations with my own checking account to, to start the brand and, start expanding before we started franchising. And, I was having trouble finding a good agency to help me attract customers and the right customers, specifically the right customers, to my businesses and be able to grow that. And as the franchisor, that's impor- that's imperative that I show that I can do this, let alone, a franchisee should be able to do it. and so after trying many agencies and just, quite frankly, getting really frustrated, and having poor communication with the agencies and just, not consistent results I decided that I was going to become a digital marketing expert because I had to, because I had to, which is how most entrepreneur ventures start. They, you have your own pain pro- point, and you work to solve that. and so I spent a lot of money, almost six figures on my adult education, if you will, into digital marketing, be it mentorships and masterminds and paid groups and, courses and, summits and conferences that I went to, to really become an expert at this. And then I could hire people and train them and really have a team that were also experts at specifically brick-and-mortar fitness, wellness, recovery. I'm not an expert at helping, online fitness coaches or fencing companies or dentists. that's not my specialty or my team's specialty. We really focused on brick-and-mortar fitness and wellness because that's the business I was in, both with Rockbox and then later with Beam. And so we had to get really good at that, for the franchise networks to grow. And then, about, I don't know what, four years ago or so, 'cause w- I've had the agency since two- late 2018. about four years ago, we started offering the services to other clients who may want to participate and... not participate, but work with us to grow their businesses. And, there's-- the pie is huge. America is unfortunately, in the la- latest data is only getting heavier. although some medicines, GLP-1s are helping that stat. But, the market is so he- the, the addressable market, the total addressable market is so large, that so many of your listeners can benefit and grow their businesses while they're helping people in their community live better lives. And that's what's great about this business is, we're doing something that is so ethically right and it helps our community, but we still have to advertise it and tell the world about it to get people to come in and experience the product inside the four walls so that they will join, become a member, buy a package, whatever it may be, so they can live a healthier life. So I... That's a long-winded answer to your simple question, but I got here from, the circuitous route of I got frustrated working with the normal agency out there and, wanted to kinda flip that model on its head.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 4:52

we're happy you're here. And I do like that when you were saying, I tell people all the time, I'm like, "We're not selling crack cocaine.

Roger 4:59

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 5:00

something that is actually... How lucky are we that we get to sell something that's actually super, super important in people's lives and has a huge difference?" So why not try to get as many people as possible to come in and know about us, and same when we had our initial conversation, I deep dove into digital marketing for the exact same reasons you did. it's hard out there. first of all, from 2018 to 2026, the marketing landscape has changed

Roger 5:29

100%.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 5:30

A- and I think it's changes so freq- it's one of the things that changes so, so frequently that it's, I think it's a challenge for business owners, especially owner-operators, because we're doing so many different things, to stay up to date on, right now ChatGPT launched their ads and, and so it's gonna be interesting to see, I think, in the next 12 to 18 months what kind of happens. But it's a full-time job, as people say all the time, which is why it's great to have y- people like you out there. if I could ask you, let's talk today, 2026, okay? What are some of the... Let's talk first mistakes. So when people... What in either someone's coming to you and asking for a discovery call, showing you what they have, if they have anything, or what they've tried, and some red flags that's away of ooh, that's just not set up the right way or, in brick-and-mortar, specifically health and wellness, what are some of the things maybe people have done it themselves or a prior agency has not gotten

Roger 6:32

Sure. and Thrive More Autopilot has helped both. People that were trying it on their own and didn't have the success they wanted, and/or they've used other agencies or are leaving an agency 'cause they're not happy. so we, we've done both. the immediate things that come to mind are... a- and the red flags, and I can tell, ooh, there's a lot of room for improvement here, is when the targeting i- is not done correctly. and some people will tell you the new update, and if we talk specifically Meta, the new update with Andromeda, you don't have to do anything. It'll do it all for you. that's partially true. If you set up your creatives, with photos or videos and what's being said in those, graphic overlays or in the actual audible, and the hook and the copy, which we call the story, if you build that out incredibly detailed and make sure that your avatar, it is, it's so obvious who your avatar is, what their pain point is, what they've tried potentially in the past, what's not worked for them, and I'm talking consumer marketing now, Andromeda can be very effective But what I do see is there's still like any newer release that Meta puts out there, it's not fully refined until 12, 18 months in, and it continually, refines and gets better. But the first 12 months or so, i- it's not nearly as great as it should be. And unfortunately, Meta uses us as their beta test with our own real money as they improve their software. so if I see that, income, has not been restricted to where it's people that have disposable income, if I see a catchment area, a, a geotargeting that is too large because, some owners say, I just, I wanna help everybody and, e- even if they live 15 miles away, I wanna help them," people will drive an average of 12 minutes to go to their gym. Any further than that, you've gotta be a really special offering, and too much further than that, doesn't matter who you are. and so we wanna make sure that's correct. but where I really see more of the... It's in the setup for sure, people are still serving a lot of, traffic on, on, desktop. I would advise against that. we only serve clients, on mobile, and we choose-- we're very particular in the ad placements that we choose. The, so think reels, stories, newsfeeds. because Meta, Google, a lot of different, uh, platforms want to sell advertising space. They have a lot of space in different areas, and the more space and different ways they can offer that space, the more money they can make and the more ads they can sell. but those aren't very effective spaces. So I, I will look and see if somebody's serving, o- on, on a desktop in, Facebook Marketplace. That's not a good place to find a good, targeted avatar for a Pilates studio or for a PT studio. and so I look at that. And then I think most importantly, Christa, what I see the biggest-- where I see the biggest mistake is in the offer and how the story is built around getting to that offer. agencies and, people that are doing it themselves too often will have, a lot of information about their business and how great their studio is or their instructors or whatever it may be they're offering, but they don't talk about the prospect. And the prospect is the hero of the story. We're all the hero of our own story, right? We're all the authors of our own story, and usually the hero of our own story. and when a business tries to become the hero, and we're just a, a character actor in that scene, we don't resonate with it. And so I, I would, again, a multi-factorial answer, but it's in the back end in the setup and in the targeting- But I can tell almost as much a- about the competency of the marketer, by the ads, how they're built, both the, and the video and the, a- and or photo, the hook, the story, the copy, and then the offer and how you get to that offer. And free class is not much of an offer. And, it, there's just a lot of rinse and repeat in the business that, that I'm against. There's a lot of set it and forget it that, we don't subscribe to. We're very active in our clients' accounts and in, in their ad accounts. if I see any of those things, I know there's lots of room for improvement

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 10:42

for optimization. it's similar to if we can relate it to fitness, right? You oftentimes, as a physical therapist, for example, someone comes in back pain, right? And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, what was the last therapist doing for you?" And usually they're like, "Oh, we did straight leg raises and heat and stem." I'm like, "Okay, now we know, what we're dealing with here," and getting to the nuance and that I think is a challenge for owner-operators, or even if they are doing... If an agency's doing and they don't understand, there can be one thing that's toggled on or off that sets, I In my ads just recently, I was seeing the ad, I was being served the ad, and sometimes I'll do that on purpose so that I can see what it looks like, on the customer side, and it was one of those ads that it was looping through different creatives and I was like, "I swear I shut all of these buttons off. I

Roger 11:42

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 11:42

I checked it five times." it, I had to go back through each and every ad just to figure out, and there was one ad that had one button that wasn't toggled off. I'm, I think they default sometimes when you go to change one thing and it defaults back, and you have to... like, "This is driving me crazy." It was taking so long to

Roger 12:00

and don't, you know what? Don't feel bad and, or even blame yourself because, what the platforms do, they didn't used to do this, but what they do now is as you're, let's say, for, for the viewers that are listening, I'm scrolling my hands from the top to the bottom. But as you're at the top of the interface of the dashboard that we're, that we build the campaigns on, as you go down, if you unclick something, 'cause they love to pre-check everything. and so if you uncheck something because it's not a good use of your advertising spend, it's not the right way to, to target, and you uncheck it, and then later you go down below... Let me give you an example. If you uncheck desktop and you just want mobile, first you have to find that 'cause they hide it. But when you find it and you uncheck it, if you then go below and you change the placements of where you want the mobile to feed, it'll recheck desktop. So you probably did uncheck it, and then you made another change down below as you should have, and they recheck it. And that's where I'm finding that a lot of business owners that want to do it themself, it, it may be a better use of their investment to hire an agency,

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 13:03

Yeah

Roger 13:03

a very reasonable priced agency, because this is all we do all day long. and we still joke about it and get frustrated, but, we're in there all day long and we do so many, we have a whole check- checklist that we do as we go down to make sure that everything is good. We run test leads through and all that stuff. 'Cause you're right. it's frustrating as can be when you know you've done it right and then it defaults to the other stuff, for sure.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 13:22

get... And it looks weird on the, consumer side, and then that's like a trust gap of, what's happening. So that's exactly why you're here on this

Roger 13:29

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 13:30

because I do believe... I don't believe that owners, business owners should abdicate their responsibility, because I was burned that way, a- as you were burned that way as a business owner, where we trusted an agency, spent tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars when you include the ad spend you were spending, and you didn't know enough, or at least this was my reality, was I didn't know enough to push back and ask questions. And so I was being told, "Oh yeah, look how many people are on your email list now," or, "Look how many impressions you have." And I didn't know enough to say, "Yeah, but those emails are... look like bot emails to me," or "They're from, Yugoslavia. those people aren't coming into my brick-and-mortar." I don't know, is

Roger 14:19

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:19

even a country anymore? It's not a country anymore,

Roger 14:21

I should know that, but that whole Eastern Bloc, I don't know what's happened. yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:25

not a country

Roger 14:26

I think it's still in flux too, quite frankly. I think it's

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:28

I think it's more a co-country... I'm, I'm sorry, I should definitely know my Slovak people. I should know this answer. But anyways, you know what I'm saying. It's

Roger 14:35

yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:36

and so I did the same thing as you. I said, "No more..." And then I w- I also found that I was referring my business clients to people who w- I then felt were not doing a good job, and then I,

Roger 14:49

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:49

it. I'm gonna learn as much as I can to at least be dangerous enough and say, 'This isn't adding up.'" The math doesn't

Roger 14:57

Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 14:58

so in terms of creative, 'cause I do think... So okay, let's talk about this, actually. Let's go back. So you did talk about all the different pieces of an ad. Can we just talk

Roger 15:10

Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 15:10

that? And let's

Roger 15:11

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 15:12

about M- Meta right now, so Facebook, Instagram. Google's a little different 'cause they don't really have creative and they choose whatever pictures they wanna use. But let's talk about Meta. So let's talk about all the important pieces that we have to think about when we're going to run an ad.

Roger 15:30

Yes. so there's three, outside of the settings. as you go through to build an, a Meta ad, you're gonna decide your campaign, if there's any, you have to divulge if it's like a political campaign or anything like that. And that's all done on the, we'll call it the first page. The second page is where you'll have all your settings. This is where they can trip you up. They hide a lot of things. They constantly reformat that interface as well, and I They, you could say they're testing it to be more efficient. I think they're just hiding more stuff and they keep changing it. But, that's one guy's opinion. that's where, more the technical, I call it the science of running traffic, running ads is. The art of that is going to come in the creative, which is gonna be f- photos or videos. It'll be in the hook, what they call the headline, what Meta calls the headline. it's really a hook. and the hook's job, and I'll explain that actually. and then the copy. and the copy is really the story that you're telling. there's two schools of thought, short copy and long copy, which is exactly what it sounds like. usually if you can get someone to read more, invest more time in the ad, they're gonna be more emotionally invested. And anyone who's listening to this podcast is treating and helping people that have an emotional need as much as they have a physical need. whether it's to lose weight, it's to relieve pain that's been, troubling them, whatever it is. i- there's just as much of an emotional, component to that as there is a physical, and that's where the, the story really comes in, into play before you make an offer. But short and long form copy, they each have their place. Usually long form is gonna be better for a service business, like we're talking about on today's. where short copy is better for hard goods, apparel, things like that. or a really trusted brand like Nike that doesn't have to tell the story 'cause everybody knows the story. so if we break down those three components on the third page, which is the actual ad creation, creative is going to be the photo or video. And, don't make the mistake that I did early in my entrepreneurial career where I hired an entire film crew to come in, and I'm talking about a guy with a gimbal. We had a crane, one, one of those little weighted cranes in there and all that. I spent $8,000 to film the coolest 60-second ad you've ever seen for one of the brands I owned. and it absolutely flopped. it broke my heart. It broke my heart. a lot of money, but also it looks so cool. I'm like, "Why doesn't anybody else think that this is cool?" they may have, but they also thought, "This is an ad." They looked at their phone and they said, "This is so slick and so well done, and all these graphic overlays and transitions and CGI." They're like, this, that's an ad," and they went right past it because social media, people are there to socialize, to be entertained, not to buy stuff. Now they will buy stuff, but they're first and foremost on there to be entertained and, and, and be engaged. And so in, I would offer, this advice to your listeners, wh- whether they use an agency or the- use, do it themselves Is for creative, just film it on an iPhone, not an Android. 70%, a- and 70% of all people use, an iPhone, but also, just the way Meta works, it works better with an iPhone from a resolution perspective with, the, the framing of it, everything. so just... And the iPhone's got it so good. just use an iPhone to film it, but you wanna film different things. there's what's called the walk and talk, where you're walking through your studio and you're holding the camera at an arm's length, and you're really doing a selfie style video. Those if done well, and, you can make as many takes as you want to get the right one. but if done well with some graphic overlays, a little bit of ambient music in the background and subtitles, 'cause some, a lot of people watch their phone instead of listen to their phone.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 19:03

Yep

Roger 19:04

that works very well 'cause it looks native. It looks like somebody's doing a walk and talk, and talking to the viewer, which is us. so that would be one. There'd be another where you're being filmed by somebody, and it's a little bit, wider out and maybe you're showing the studio or you're talking with, and, one of your staff members. also, from a filming perspective, testimonials. client testimonials are absolute gold because it's social proof. It's somebody else saying, "I took a chance. I wasn't 100% certain, like you're not 100% certain, but I took a chance at this fitness studio or this PT clinic, and it's changed my life." and so that's another form of that. Then we want stills as well. Video will-- they will say, everyone will tell you video trumps, photos. That's true, and yet Andromeda, this new, update, it wants a variety of creative because it's now rewarding us for- Instead of like in 2018 or '19, I would find one or two videos that crushed, and I would scale the hell out of those two videos, right? and it would keep serving them, and I would keep getting leads. Now, because it knows they've oversold advertising and every third post is an a- is an ad now when it didn't used to be, so they need those ads to be more engaging and to be more creatively fresh. And people don't wanna see the same video every single time because then it does feel like they're watching the television break of commercials the whole time they're online, they're scrolling. And so Facebook is now rewarding, or Meta is now rewarding, a, a refreshing of that content and different takes. And so I would say, you've got member testimonials, you've got, walk and talks, staff, commentary. You want photos of the studio. You want people doing the work or being treated or being helped, and with some graphic overlays in there as a still photo. believe it or not, you want a picture of the outside of your building with your sign. I don't know why those convert, but I think there's a trust factor that, hey, we're a local. it just immediately tells somebody this is a real business. they, they have a storefront, This isn't some internet weirdo. and so there's... you just wanna rotate that creative through, but continually refresh it. And even if you have a video that's crushing, refilm that video in a blue shirt and then a red shirt. Walk the other way. Walk the, hold it to the side because we wanna give the algorithm, which is basically AI, we wanna give the, the algorithm as much choice as possible to... If somebody watches a lot of selfie videos for na- for organic posts, they should be served a selfie video for an ad. If they like more still photos on, let's say, Instagram, we wanna serve them a still photo because that's what the, the prospect wants to see, and we have to make sure we've filled up our library, if you will, of those. and we can serve up to 10 at a time, 10 in a given, ad set. And then the hook is, so once we have the creative, and some things you can do, too, is you can, and we do all this for our clients as part of our retainer, is, saturate the color, run it through a filter, not for blemishes and stuff, but just a filter to give it, a, a, so it pops, so that, the color saturates so it jumps out a little more. Even black and white. Take a color video and make it black and white, which you can do electronically or digitally, so that it will stand out. And you want to just do all kinds of variations with that. The next thing is gonna be the hook, and the hook is, think of it as a headline in a newspaper. When somebody has read the headline, Da- David Ogilvy, the most famous advertising guy in the world said, "Once they've read the headline, my ad has done 80% of the work." a- and the goal of the headline is to get the reader to read the first line of copy, and the first line of copy's job is to get them to read the second line to read the third line. and, and that's why where a long copy can really draw somebody into their own story, if you will, that is written about somebody that's so similar to them, that's where a long copy really works. But to get them to even read the copy, we've gotta have a compelling headline. And I will share with the listeners a compelling headline or a hook is not, "Free class offered today." That's not gonna, people see that too much. Or, p- "Pilates near you." It's, people, they're not looking for Pilates. They're not looking for physical therapy. They're looking for a solution. So a hook would be Have you tried to lose weight, but have you struggled to lose weight and are finally ready to make a permanent change? Okay, if I'm overweight, I'm at least gonna read the next line because, yeah, I have struggled to lose weight and I am ready for a permanent change. Or if it's physical therapy, is lower back pain preventing you from doing the things you love? Or if you wanna get more specific, 'cause you can run different tests of the headline, is your lower back pain, keeping you from playing pickleball that you love so much, keeping you from playing ten- again, we just vary it, keeping you from playing tennis that you love, golf, on, on the weekends, playing with your kid. these are all separate headlines. And if you're one of those people, you stop and you read the ad because you think, "Oh wait, this is talking to me. That's me. I have this problem." so a hook is not about the business at all. It's about the... I say that, there's always exceptions. the, the, with very minor exceptions, the hook is always about the problem and what they may be suffering with or solutions they've tried but have failed. And we wanna ask a question. when you... You can make a statement which, can be a, a bold statement that will get somebody to read. But a question is so much more, effective, and it's because we, just as human beings, we hate open loops. And I love to write, I love to write hooks like, Christa is the best PT because, dot, dot,

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 24:41

Yep.

Roger 24:41

that's my hook.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 24:42

Yeah

Roger 24:43

they're gonna have to read the first line of copy 'cause they have this open loop in their head like, why is Christa the best? Why is Christa's PT clinic the best PT clinic? I gotta know why." And they may read it and then go on to the next scroll, but I've at least got them into the, 'Cause once the headline is read and it gets them to the first line of copy, it's done its job. Now the copy has to say- yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 25:00

Yeah

Roger 25:01

all stuff that you know and hopefully the listeners of this podcast just understand that, one, advertising is not dead. Digital advertising is not dead. It is as effective as ever. And the difference is somebody's attention and, and the, the competition for that attention is so much higher today than it used to be.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 25:22

Yeah

Roger 25:23

but I will say, and you know this, when people say, just people don't have the attention span like they did before so digital media doesn't, you know, digital advertising doesn't work." No. I can tell you I, I'm more, I'm a latecomer, uh, comer to this party, but my wife finally got me to watch Ted Lasso. I know I'm way late to that party, way late. But, this past weekend, yeah, we watched, seven epi- they're a half hour. We watched, seven episodes of Ted Lasso, which I loved. my, I got a pretty short attention span, but I was there for three and a half hours straight watching T- Ted Lasso because it was holding my attention, because it's such a high quality show that the competition for my attention was like, "Hey, this deserves my attention."

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 25:59

Yeah.

Roger 25:59

the same thing when you're advertising digitally. Make sure that you're earning their attention and not just expecting it

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 26:05

Yes. A- and, I think that the... Are people's attention spans lower? Yes, and it just means you need a better hook so that you can get them to stop the scroll, and then, you can continue. The beauty of advertising is it's like in f- fitness or physical therapy. It's a piece of the puzzle, right? So if someone sees your ad and the hook is good enough for them to be like, "Oh, why is Christa PT, I'm interested," and then they click on your ad, right? So even an impression, it does a, it, it does a little bit, but getting them to click on their ad to see more is great. Now they go to your website. Now you can... forget they don't take any other action, you can retarget them on the, now, which then people are like, "Isn't that an- that's so annoying." I'm like, "Your job is to sell your service." that is your job, right? So it's not annoying, and they can scroll through it if they're not. But I think it used to be, what, 7 to 21 times? Now it's probably, 50 to 60 times somebody has to see something. So they've seen your ad. They go to your website, so we'll talk in a moment about you don't have a good back-end experience, how

Roger 27:25

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 27:25

is a little bit. But then maybe they're driving down the street and they do see your sign outside. Or then now maybe they're in the grocery store and they see someone wearing your shirt. Or now they're at an event or something, they're like, "You know what? Actually, my mom goes to that location. She thought it was really great." So all of these become touchpoints, if you're the one that... And now you are retargeting these people and they're seeing your thing over and over again, or they're scrolling, or now they're searching and they see you on Google, the person that's not advertising is probably gonna lose that business, because

Roger 27:59

100%.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 28:00

feed all the time, right? And obviously you're good at what you do, and 10 years ago, maybe you could hang out a shingle maybe and be okay and be like, "I'm a new Pilates studio, come see me." That's not the case anymore. There's a lot, there's a lot of noise in the industry, it's just one more fishing line, right? and then when you talk about... Right now I'm the Christa Gurka of Fit Biz Strategies is an online platform, so it's a little different than brick-and-mortar for sure. But I can tell you, I've been running ads now and not being afraid of ad spend for probably, nine months. I've had a four-to-one return on ad spend. So I've spent maybe 12, like maybe $17,000 on ads, which is not that much in a nine-month timeframe, and I've generated, like- $64,000 in revenue. And so for me, I look at that and I'm like, so I just keep saying, "I'm gonna find what's working, and I'm just gonna keep leaning into that." And I'm o- I'm comfortable testing because like you said, a lot of it is just, again, as we're f- we're therapy people, right? Or fitness people. You test, you reassess, and you tweak. It's the same thing with ads. So especially nowadays, like you said, one thing could work today, and then a month from now it might be something

Roger 29:30

100%.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 29:30

And to have someone like you that's on there that's, that knows what's happening, what's coming down the pipeline, can look at the metrics on a daily basis. Sometimes it's like you said, it's tweaking, put a red shirt on instead of a blue shirt, put a... Reorder hook sometimes. It's sometimes, call out the pickleball players. Is your

Roger 29:53

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 29:54

keeping you f- so somet- there's little tiny little tweaks, and professionals like you can make those adjustments easily without the business owner, being on the back end all the time.

Roger 30:03

Yeah. It's 100... I agree with everything you said 100%.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 30:09

So let's now talk about of the things that I see as well, whereas... So we talked about the front-facing, w- you talked about the back end, meaning the targeting has to be correct, the demographics, so that's the back side. Now you have the front side, which is, the creative, the copy, things everyone sees, hopefully a call to action that makes sense.

Roger 30:30

Always. Always

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 30:32

now we talk about... Now, I know when we spoke you did talk a little bit about instant forms, but let's talk about if we are gonna send them to the website,

Roger 30:41

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 30:42

that connection, like, when Meta and Facebook look at that connection between, okay, you had all these people click on the ad, but m- maybe no one took the action, or what, why is that where you're sending them so important?

Roger 30:57

Yep. Yeah. great question. and there are two schools of thought, and if, anybody listening, wants to have a call with us, and I can walk them through our position on whether we use, an on-platform lead f- lead form, and then what we do with after, where we take them after that or if we bring them right to a landing page and/or website. Let's assume that we take them to, a we- a landing page or website, which for the consumer is indistinguishable most of the time. we need a... we need some information on that 'cause the copy's great, but we need, a little bit more hype because every time we change location, that's... I can't think of a better way to say it, but change platforms. So if they're on Meta and then we take them to a landing page, it's gonna feel a little different to them, so there's some cognitive dissonance. And if we take them then from a landing page to a website purchase page that's in the C- or, I'm sorry, a CRM purchase page that has its own coding and look and probably not very well-branded, 'cause most CRMs don't do a good job of that, but that's how as studio owners we can ring up purchase. That's yet another platform, and there's more cognitive dissonance. And every time we make that little, jump over the, the gap, we're gonna lose people to cart abandonment. and so to answer your question very directly, when we take them to the website, we don't ever wanna drop them on the main website. We wanna drop them on the offer, a custom-built page for the offer that we advertised, and as you said, a call to action, a CTA. You should not run any ad without a CTA in this business, because we're not... We're too small to brand. We're not Nike or Budweiser. we have to, tell people exactly what the next step is. They know they go to the grocery store to buy Coca-Cola. They don't know how to find our clinic, and so we need to tell them exactly how to engage with us, and that's the call to action. And then they click the button, and then that puts them in a place where they can take that specific action. Share your information. Buy your intro class. Buy your, y- your assessment, whatever it may be. the mistake I will see is we take them to a page. we should have enough information but not a ton.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 32:55

too

Roger 32:55

Simplicity scales, complexity fails, so just a little bit of information that continues to, to build up in their mind the solution, not about our business, but about the solution. And then the purchase page where they purchase it, and then after the purchase page there, there should always be a thank you page with next steps. And this is where CRMs, again, if you use Mindbody or Club ready.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 33:16

so unfortunate, unfortunately. It's the worst thing e- it is the worst thing ever, and that's like a whole podcast unto itself, but these platforms are not made for, which is like a

Roger 33:29

Yeah, they're not marketing platforms. they're,

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 33:31

are not. they, could be. they,

Roger 33:32

they could be

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 33:33

be. They're just, they're not. So I hear you

Roger 33:37

So if we're, I- if we are on their website, what's, I'm s- we're still gonna have to take payments, probably through our CRM. We at least want a thank you page, which will always have a URL after that. That's where we need to embed the pixel because we have to... the pixel sh- and a pixel's just, for most people know what that is, but if not, it's just a, it's a piece of code that, that com- it, it communicates something happened. uh, something that you wanted to happen actually happened, and the only way to get to a thank you page is means I got out my credit card and I purchased, and then my next page it said, "Thank you for purchasing. Here's how to redeem your, your first session," whatever. in that thank you page is where you would, embed the pixel so that when people come to that page, and the only way to get to that page is to make a purchase, the pixel's able to follow them back through their journey and say, "Oh, they were just on the buy page. Before that they were on the dedicated private webpage for this offer. Before that, they came from Meta, and when they came from Meta, they actually clicked on this picture that had this hook and with that." so that's the layman's way to explain it, but it just digitally goes back, follows the breadcrumbs, and says, "Cool, this particular photo or video with this hook, with this, copy got somebody to, got this type of person to purchase," which is the desired outcome. Hey, algorithm AI, let's find more people like the person that just bought that have the same habits, trends, financial ba- all that stuff, surfing or, browsing history, and show them this ad 'cause they should have a much higher propensity. and where I find is people will put the, they'll put the pixel on their general website. that's not really gonna help. They'll put the pixel on the purchase page. That doesn't help 'cause they could abandon cart. It needs to be, on the, on the actual thank you page to do that. And, truth be told, some CRMs are more easy to work with in that aspect, and some lock down their architecture in a way that is very difficult.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 35:34

Yeah

Roger 35:35

yeah, on pur- of course, on purpose. so there's, but there's different ways to go about that, for sure.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 35:39

We've done, at least some of what I've suggested is, we've done instant forms. And so instant forms for those people, they- they'd stay on Meta. you don't leave Meta, and Meta likes that because you're not leaving their platform, right? And then you could send them, like you said, to, the next step after they've done it, you send them to the, you send them to the website

Roger 36:00

Yep

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 36:00

one way. The other way we've found that has worked is we send them, again, not to the homepage, a unique landing page that says specifically... So if it says here, the landing page says, "Do you play pickleball?" Or it's something very specific. And then what we'll do is we'll ask them for their... So we'll say, "Enter your name and email to grab your 20% coupon code for your first session."

Roger 36:30

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 36:31

at least it is now, some people would be like, "Oh, that's too many steps. People will fall off." Yes, I do agree with that. The more steps you have, just like you said, the likelier you are to lose someone. However, they do take that step, at least I have their email if they abandon down the road. And if someone does take that step, they're probably way more qualified when they do get down the road. So because you're right, those, our CRMs, our platforms, I don't care if you're talking about Jane or MINDBODY is the worst, or all of those platforms, you lose them once they go into there. You can't tell how far down the pipeline they got. You can't tell if they one page and then left, or if they actually got all the way to trying to check out. So I agree with you, and I think that testing a few different things is the best way to do it, and then tweaking it. you can find the kink in the chain the way, so you don't

Roger 37:24

Yes

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 37:26

everything. You're just trying to figure out which way, where am I optimizing for.

Roger 37:30

For sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 37:31

beauty is most of our businesses that, like most people that are listening, to my podcast at least, they don't need 10,000 leads. That's like the beauty of the business. We're not trying to get... We're working in, value versus volume. And so what are you seeing now, just if we can maybe talk working backwards in terms of metrics. So before they used to say, expect a 1 to 3% conversion rate in cold traffic.

Roger 38:06

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 38:07

still seeing that on average? is that kind of what you're telling people?

Roger 38:12

it, everybody hates this answer, but it depends.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 38:15

It depends, yeah.

Roger 38:15

it, depends on the modality, and it depends on the offer. Doesn't necessarily depend on the market as much, but it depends on the offer which is going to include price point. but that 1.5% is good,

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 38:28

Rough.

Roger 38:28

and 1's not bad either, depending on the offer and the modality. so your numbers are spot on there. But it, the way to get a higher conversion is to find an offer and create an offer that's truly irresistible and one that somebody looks at and goes, "Wow, I, this is what I need, but I get this other stuff too that I kinda want." And that in- that's included all in this, in this offer. And again, we love to work with clients and stack an offer. So you come in and y- or, you opt into this and you say, "Yeah, I get w- X service for," I'm making this up, "$49." and everybody says, "That's great." But for the first, 15 people, uh, first 15 local, lady, local area ladies, whatever, and you would name the local area of the city, ladies who do respond, and, and claim their discounted voucher, you also get a, this additional free service or these additional two free services on your first visit. Now, we would always make sure that those services are not like a massage where you have a hard cost of paying a, something that's very low labor touch and either zero cost or very low cost, but high perceived value to the, the prospect. And now what you have is you have a true offer where it's a great deal, and I get these bonuses, 'cause everybody loves free stuff. Everybody. Free... Un- unfortunately, listeners will not love hearing this, but it's true. In our language and in our society, people have a more visceral response to the word free than they do love It's terrible but true. Terrible but true. so we don't wanna give away our stuff, our, our service for free, because we have to show there's value to that. What we wanna do is stack other things that have very low value. as a guy that used to own, three fitness studios when I had started, my first brand, Rockbox Fitness, I owned three of those. And you could... I could promise you that if you were coming in for a consult, because we really didn't do first class free, we'd do, a consult, bring them in, make sure, we sign up to the entire program. I gave away more free T-shirts, which were the T-shirts that I couldn't sell. I'd already tried to sell them for six months couldn't sell,

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 40:31

you

Roger 40:32

of a sudden those became... And it wasn't a T-shirt, because that doesn't sound very sexy. It was a free branded logo item of, item of, apparel, item. Okay, that sounds great, And then, oh, there's leggings. What is that? Yeah, it's a cotton T-shirt I couldn't sell. But you get that, maybe a water bottle that cost me, a branded water bottle that cost me maybe $1.80 or something. But you stack all these, th- this value, and we even split it out. I'll just give a real life example. We have split out, a paid intro offer for, uh, a brand that includes everything that was part of the free class experience that we used to offer, but now it's paid, $30 paid, uh, intro with the stuff that was already included, broken out and splintered out, which include, a rental, a glove rental and some wraps and, a mini boxing lesson before class. That was all part of the experience, but we just splintered that out and all of a sudden, wow, this looks like a real value-stacked offer. And we even put, the suggested value next to it or whatever in parentheses. Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 41:29

Yeah.

Roger 41:29

and so I say all that because everybody listening, they're in their business. I- if anybody heard this and says, I don't really... My business is not like that. I sell Pilates, and I really have just one thing." You probably have tacky socks, right? those sticky socks, right?

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 41:43

grip socks were part of our ad value add

Roger 41:46

There you go. you've got, and a lot of people

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 41:48

have a Pilates 101 video program that was literally something we created during COVID because we were teaching online, that was

Roger 41:55

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 41:55

our ad offer. You get, free grip socks, you get a mini... By the way, we did a mini, tutorial before class, which technically everyone had to do anyways. And, used to have a swag bag, same thing. We had t-shirts we could never sell, and then we had Chapsticks, which everyone loves, and they cost... And hair ties, 'cause it's,

Roger 42:12

yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:13

right?

Roger 42:13

Yep

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:14

you're right. You're absolutely right, but that's really smart of, like, you to tell, like, "Hey, what if we just pulled this out? What if we named it this?" And what's the worst that's gonna happen? You're gonna test it, and you're gonna watch what happens

Roger 42:27

100%. Yep, and to listeners, when we say test it, we're not like, "Hey, let's put five grand of ad spend towards this." Hey, we're talking in 15, $20, you'll know if something's working or not just by the trending and, and the click through rate. i- if even if they don't pur- you'll know what's starting to resonate with the client. Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:46

of click-through rate as another metric, what

Roger 42:49

Fit Biz

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:49

you, what do you consider a good click-through rate in Meta? Again, I

Roger 42:54

And if

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:55

but, let's talk prospecting, new

Roger 42:57

Cold traffic. Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 42:58

what is a good click-through rate right now?

Roger 43:00

if, truly if you're at between 3 and 5%, y- you're killing the game. Killing the game, right? it's probably closer to between 2 and 3, and the conversion's closer to .8 to, 1.2 in reality. but if you can do a conversion rate of 1 to 3, or get it closer to 3% to 1%, you're crushing the game. And then if you can get a click-through rate of, of north of 3%, y- you're doing amazing. you're doing... Because again, you have to think of who you're competing with. But again, don't... listeners should not get disturb- get stir- that's easy for me to say, discouraged and think, I don't wanna spend this money and only 3% even click the ad."

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 43:38

That's a lot. That's

Roger 43:39

as you said earlier, they're still seeing it. It's making an impression. We including, I own a digital agency, would never, ad- advocate just do digital ads. If it were 2017 maybe, not today. You want to be in your... if you have a PT clin- clinic, you should be in all the boutique fitness, studios, every Saturday morning and maybe a Wednesday night, with a table. maybe offering a free, assessment or something there on-site. you should be at the Whole Foods, once a quarter, displaying.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:07

Yeah

Roger 44:08

you wanna, you want to have everything possible from a, an events or local marketing grassroots effort as another... you used the term line in the water. Just the more lines in the water because when they see the ad, they may then see the brick, the, your brick-and-mortar, and then the next time they see the ad.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:26

it. Exactly.

Roger 44:27

That, yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:28

d- does, what, like think that everyone that go... They don't pay $100,000 to be on because they think that all those people are gonna go to T-Mobile. It's part of "Oh, T-Mobile," and then the commercial, and then the da, that whatever

Roger 44:42

Yep.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:42

tone is. It's just

Roger 44:45

Christa

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:45

And so it's like subconscious, buying

Roger 44:50

Yes

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 44:50

and it works, but it works if you do it properly. That's the problem. like things like if you don't have your Pixel on, I'm super sorry to tell you, like your ads, you're throwing money down the toilet unfortunately.

Roger 45:04

Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 45:04

you have to have a Pixel on, and again, you have to have the Pixel on the right page. You have to tell Meta the right action that you're looking

Roger 45:16

The event. Yeah

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 45:17

does it matter?" Because what you just said, like the algorithm, Meta or Google, whatever, is going to find more people that are gonna take that action. if the action is engaging with your ad, that's a certain type of person, but if the action you're telling Meta is like you want someone to buy, that's a different type of person, and that's why all of those little touch points are important. And so when people say, "Oh, I tried ads and they didn't work," my first thing is thinking, I would love to see how you set those ads up, which is what I do with the people in our business right now. However, when I mentioned to you, I was like, "I do not wanna run ads for people. That is not what I

Roger 45:56

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 45:58

And so it was great to meet you because I was like, I also wanna make sure that I'm sending people that, I asked you the tough questions, and you had answers for them, which was good because I... It's important to me that owners have so much going on in their head, I

Roger 46:14

For sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 46:15

able to say, "This is a trusted source," and the fact that you specialize specifically in brick-and-mortar, we need people to walk into our establishment and pay us money locally, which is, it- it's just different than an online digital

Roger 46:33

100%. A- and I've lived that life of your listeners, right?

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 46:36

Yep

Roger 46:36

different locations, two different brands. So it's, I think that's what separates Thrive more from the average agency is, yes, I coincidentally do have a marketing degree from undergraduate, but, my chops were learned with my own cash in the real world, which is different than, a 25-year-old that's a marketing degre- major that is taking your money and learning i- in real time. I've

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 46:58

husband has a marketing degree, and I would not pay him a penny to run my ads. He

Roger 47:02

Sure. Yeah. We're talking to specifically direct response digital marketing. Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 47:12

paid ads, exactly direct response digital marketing. so let's now let people know where they can find you. What I would like to say first is Thrive More and Roger and his team are going to be the ad support team in our Fit Biz Accelerator program. There is a tier that will come with ad support, which will help get eyes and strategy and almost ready to give people the framework to say when they go talk to Roger is like, "Okay, this is..." 'Cause some people are like, "I don't know what my goal is.

Roger 47:43

Sure

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 47:43

I don't know what," "I don't know what..." I'm like, do you want awareness? Do you want money?" "Do you need... What class specifically do you need filled? Is there one location that needs it more than the other location?" But then Roger and his team will do one call a month, talking all things ads, which, I think it's great 'cause they change on such a, such an incredible basis. So if anyone's been thinking about joining the Accelerator and you're interested, I'm very excited to say that Roger and his team will be part of it. But aside from that, you don't have to be part of our program to work with Roger and his team. So tell everyone where they can find more information about you, and maybe set up a discovery call and

Roger 48:23

Yeah.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 48:23

you.

Roger 48:24

Yep, and I always say leave your credit card at home. we don't do any hard close on the first call by any means. I want you to feel 100%... any, anybody to feel 100% comfortable. they can go to thrivemore.ai, so T-H-R-I-V-E-M-O-R-E, put together as one word. Thrivemore.ai, and, on there will be, what we do and how we can help you, and of course there's a Schedule button on that as well. if they want to follow, me on social media, I'm like on LinkedIn and Instagram, a few other things with, Real Roger Martin, R-O-G-E-R M-A-R-T-I-N, so Real Roger Martin. and, I would love to help. I would... I'm a small business owner who's owned many small businesses, and, I'm a Fortune 500 refugee that loves small business. And if I can help you, and we can help you grow your studio, grow your practice, make more take-home profit, because you deserve that, but help more people, then everybody wins.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 49:17

Win-win, right?

Roger 49:18

Win-win.

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 49:18

chicken dinner.

Roger 49:19

There you go

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 49:20

is the best. We will link all of that up in the show notes, so if you're driving or walking, you can check out the show notes and click on that. If you're on my email list, you will have gotten the links in the email when this goes out, airing the podcast. And, I think that's it. I, I definitely would, if you're even remotely interested, do a discovery call with Roger and his team. I've already sent a few people his way, and they've been really happy, and so I can tell you from firsthand experience it's been great. So I appreciate it, Roger. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Roger 49:53

My pleasure. Thanks for having me

Christa Gurka | Fit Biz Strategies 49:55

Thanks everyone. Until next time, bye for now