pittsburgh tails
pittsburgh tails
Mary and the shelters
Mary Hart, longtime volunteer with dogs at the Western Pennsylvania Humane Society; its current iteration, Humane Animal Rescue Pittsburgh (HARP); and Sable Kennel, is the first to step forward to talk with me about a controversial and important subject around here, and that is leadership and practices at HARP in the past and possibly today. In addition to the informational links I usually provide along with my interviews, I have also compiled some data from HARP and the other major local shelter, Animal Friends. I pulled the data from each organization’s latest annual reporting, which is 2019 for Animal Friends and 2020 for HARP. The data, both financial and intakes and outcomes, won’t be perfectly comparable for reasons I’ll share on the web page with the data, but some information is better than none. And, of course, as always, the first-person experiences of my guest give us a perspective we can’t get anywhere else.
Welcome to Pittsburgh Tails, a podcast about the creatures of Western Pennsylvania and the people who care for and I'm your host, Mitch Bernard. Today, I'd like to share my conversation with Mary Hart, a longtime volunteer with dogs at the western Pennsylvania Humane Society. Its current iteration, humane Animal Rescue, Pittsburgh or harp, and sable kennel. Mary is the first person to step forward to talk with me about a controversial and important subject around here. And that is leadership and practices that harp in the past and possibly today. In addition to the informational links I usually provide along with my interviews, I have also compiled some data from harp and the other major local shelter animal friends, I pulled the data from each organization's latest annual reporting, which is 2019 for animal friends, and 2020. For harp, the data, both financial and intakes, outcomes won't be perfectly comparable for reasons I'll share on the webpage with the data. But some information is better than none. And of course, as always, the first person experiences that my guest give us a perspective we can't get anywhere else. Enjoy. Mary,
Unknown:I shall I call you these are niche.
lisa mitch bernard:Whatever you prefer is fine. I prefer much I guess for this but yeah, I usually tell people I'm doing financial word legal things with to call me Lisa, because that's what all my financial legal stuff says. But otherwise, I like Mitch.
Unknown:Okay. Mitch, thank you for talking to me. I spent six years as a volunteer at har from 2013. I was fired from being a volunteer in February of 2019. Like a lot of people, a lot of volunteers have been fired, pardoned. years, six years on, yes, I'm thinking that I had, you know, somewhere in excess of 650 volunteer hours. And wow. So I started volunteering after I lost a dog and the volunteers, there were wonderful, I made friends with whom I'm still friends. The there were some wonderful people working there. And there were a handful of really terrible people working there. And generally, the the low level people who were working there were good. The higher level people, anyone who was good, was fired. So Mary Kennedy, Woodrow was an example of that. And so was Jane Marcus are, you know, volunteer coordinator for several years of the time I was there, she was extraordinary. She did a wonderful job with volunteers. She was always positive, encouraging, inclusive. I have spent most of the last 20 years working with students with disabilities and we welcomed everybody as a volunteer and she was just, you know, fabulous. And, and in fact, let's see, I'm trying to I'm blanking out on the name, I have one more place to look, I'm blanking out on the name of the person who worked there. Who asked her to fire me and to fire me into fire. Joe Thornton, the guy who owns Blacksburg
lisa mitch bernard:it's no, I know his name. Yeah.
Unknown:And right, I do a lot of fundraisers for shelters and things. And Jane declined to fire us. And so she was fired, which made me feel really terrible. But But anyway, good people were fired. There was a another director before that, who was fired. So anyway, to go to go way back. I can, I've been looking for this in my saved emails. And I can verify this at some point and get back to but I'm thinking this was in December of 2014. It I'm pretty sure it wasn't either 13 or 15. I see. So I run a summer had been running a summer program as well as a program during the year for students with cognitive differences, mostly who's on the autistic spectrum. And that was one of the years where we had where we were an AmeriCorps site. So we had AmeriCorps volunteers, and we had some fundings. So that we could actually do things that, you know, people wouldn't have to pay us for. And I proposed a there's a woman, Marsha, I don't know if she still teaches different kinds of classes. She's, you know, older, like, like me. But she taught a lot of classes there, I think as a volunteer. And I talked to her about about running a day camp for students with autism or other disabilities, where they would learn about animals and safety and so on. And she liked the idea. And and we talked to the person who was the director, and let's see, I'm going to go back. Before Mary was the director, Halla hayleigh, was the director. And joy was the joy. Bronstein was the director before that, and the director before joy, his name is David. And, and I apologize, I didn't do this already. I'm blanking on his name. He was the director, he seemed like a nice guy, I didn't know him real well, he liked the idea of Oh, so we could run a program, it would be a pilot program, we'd see how it went. And we could have a one to one ratio of people working there, and students, so it would be fabulous. And we had no money to pay any costs associated with it and to staff it. Marsha was going to volunteer, but it, it was sort of everything happened just right. So that we had the money and we could fund it, and so on.
lisa mitch bernard:And so let me just interrupt for a second was this. So this is after you had been working as a dog walker, volunteering as a dog walker for a little while. And is this this is after the merger between No This was before this was before the merger between AR L and heavy? Yes. Okay. Just kinda.
Unknown:We were asked to meet a bunch of times, and play on planet curriculum and plan everything out. It was, it seemed like we went to a lot of meetings. Because I usually do things more on the fly. But we went to a lot of meetings, we planned it out. Exactly. And somebody who was involved there was let's see, I want to say Dara, but not Derek Metzger, somebody I don't see her name on the website right now. But I can't believe she's gone. She was one of the high level administrators for a bunch of years. And her job changed from one thing to another, but I think she was actually the head of education at the time. And so anyway, we went through
lisa mitch bernard:all right, this is the East End,
Unknown:no offices at the north side. North side, so I apologize. Oh, we went through all this planning. And we took applications and had a waiting list and, and so on. And a week or so before the day camp was supposed to start I got an email that the room that we were going to use which we were using a room at heart because it was accessible. And Marsha needed, you know, Marsha couldn't do steps than that. This the Director of Education Daraa needed the room for something else. And so we could have it for two days. But you know, we couldn't have it for the day camp that we planned. And so that was, you know, that was crappy, but you know, those things happen. But I was annoyed and, and I, you know, sort of marshaled resources and so on. And I complained to the director about it, lying to David about it. And shortly after that, David had been fired. Oh, nobody, you know, knew anything about it. Nobody talks about it. And in retrospect, I thought that he probably chewed Dara out about this. And no, Dara was one of several people, I think, who were not. They weren't actually directors or assistant directors, but they really ran things. And so I think she was annoyed because he was annoyed with her and he got fired for that. And then do I came on board. So I wanted to mention that firing directors goes back a long time.
lisa mitch bernard:Wow. Yeah, and
Unknown:Let's see. So I went on, I actually volunteered less, I think, after that for the rest of the year, and part of that was because I also, I adopted a dog from there that they were about to put down. And they were about to put him down because he was diabetic. And I had had a diabetic dog. And you know, it's not that big a deal. You can buy insulin for 2488 at Walmart, and, you know, it's easily manageable. So I adopted a dog, you know, that they were just about to put down. And, you know, I got a little busy, but I, you know, came back and volunteered more in 2015 2016. I later adopted another dog that they were about to put down, because they said that he was let's see, they said that he was aggressive. And he wasn't aggressive. He was scared. But I had managed to win him over a couple of people had managed to win him over by just feeding him pieces of cheeseburgers. And once you made friends with him, he was fine. And they were they weren't willing to do that. And they weren't, you know, I offered to help to do anything I could to work with him directly. And they weren't willing to do that. And so I adopted this dog, he's biscuit, I still have him. Cinnamon passed away, because she developed cancer, but many will have too many dogs. But in the course of volunteering, a number of us volunteers were concerned about, about them putting down dogs. And, you know, it might be for something like, you know, diabeetus it might be because they felt that dog was aggressive, or was this or that. But it seemed, I mean, that's really subjective. And, you know, I know, they were the bosses, and we were the volunteers. And yeah, they wanted us to just be quiet. But I know a lot of us really said, you know, we'd do anything we'd be, you know, willing to spend extra time work with the dog, whatever. And, and that was always seen as threatening, particularly as time went on. And the dogs always I mean, there, there are some stories of volunteers, springing dogs and so on. But, you know, generally, if you tried to advocate for a dog and volunteer, it wouldn't help the dog. And it, you know, it would put you on their shortlist. And so there were actually a number of volunteers who were either chased away or actually fired. Because they sort of didn't get along with the powers that be and you know, weren't I mean, I felt like I had to speak up sometimes. And I did. And so I was, you know, for years, I was on the verge of getting fired. And I sort of fought against it, you know, I waited in my head, it was, you know, it was challenging to be in that position. But I felt like, I needed to stay there and advocate for dogs and for and for people. And, oh, you know, I spoke up when I could for people who, you know, who got fired? Jane Marcus, the Volunteer Coordinator was wonderful. I'm, you know, Mary, with real, right. I mean, I just thought the world of her as you know, in her time as director, she, I learned a lot and she inspired me so and, you know, it just, it just seemed like, I mean, I, I ran a small nonprofit organization for almost 20 years. You know, I had a lot to learn about management and running an organization, but it seemed like all the things that I learned Nobody. Nobody who had any power at heart ever learned these things, and they sort of ruled by fear, and people would be gotten rid of and, and who was in charge on paper wasn't always who was really in charge. So, so Dara, not Metzger, but the original data was one of several people that somehow was, you know, was one of the ones in charge. And I think she was, you know, it was all political. And I think she was mad because somehow she could never Get named director or assistant director, she would just get some other schlep into some other title. But, but I always had the sense that there was, you know, you never quite knew who was running the place. But there were people who carried out their wishes like the, let's see. Stephanie demain, the, you know, who succeeded Jane Martin as as volunteer coordinator, and Monica Garcia, who was the Volunteer Coordinator at at the East End. And so it I guess, I never personally had a problem with Dan, Dan, Dan brushy, he always treated me respectfully, he responded to me, I sent him a lot of emails, with concerns about things. And I never felt like he lashed out because I was concerned about things. I didn't feel like he actually did anything about them, but he always responded to them, and treated me respectfully. And so I sort of got the idea that he wasn't, you know, he was more like a figurehead. He was supposed to raise money or something, but, you know, the decisions were made elsewhere. And so I've been gone a while I don't know, who makes the decisions, but I'm, you know, I'm guessing it's the same way it was a, it was a place where a lot of really wonderful people who either worked there, or were volunteers there, were kicked out. And it was a lot of volunteers. There used to be a Facebook group, there probably still is, but my facebook account got shut down. And so I lost some of my contacts. You know, where people talked about those issues, because there were so many people who had been, you know, sort of forced out. And, you know, people wanted to help animals. And, you know, and they felt frustrated, because, you know, they felt too many animals were being killed or, you know, or just that things weren't being done the way they the way they should be done. And, and I want to say that, while I was still volunteering there, I started volunteering at disable Cannell. Are you familiar? Yeah. And, and, of course, I was, you know, I was welcomed there. And, you know, and I volunteered. more to it, when I got fired at, at har, my, you know, my vote my Friday morning volunteer time, you know, went to sable kennel, and that was so different. Because they tried so hard to save every animal. And there, if I, let's see if I said, I don't think this guy is aggressive. Please let me work with him, I would get to do that. And in fact, I worked for a year with, you know, with a crazy dog, who initially wouldn't let anybody near him, except except for the dawn and Jill. And then me, he slowly made some other friends. But you know, he looked really bad at the beginning. And I worked with him. And he got better. He's, you know, he didn't, he didn't become a perfectly good dog. But he got better. He went, and he went to a rescue. And then the rescue was going to put him down. And I adopted him. So I have him and I have too many dogs. But the point was that I felt like if I said, I think this can be a good dog, then, you know, Dawn and Jill would give me a chance to try to do that. And that was really it was amazing to be able to do that after volunteering at adhaar. So anyway, I appreciate you listening to that. And I guess the other thing is that I've gotten to know so many people who work in rescue and so many little organizations that do so much for so many people with so little and sable Kendall is an example of them. And then you look at the amount of money that goes into har and it's pathetic, that you know when I started volunteering First of all, they they had the same number of dogs, you know, as Hart would have, would have. And, you know, and I yeah, I noticed I volunteered at the last sable, kennel pets pet food distribution. And I was amazed at what they're doing with nothing. And I remember, I don't, I know heart is making a big deal about their pet pantry. And I'd like I said, I haven't been there for a couple of years. But I know, when I was there, it didn't have a regular day or anything, and people had to make an appointment. And, you know, the amount of food that they gave out to people was so nominal, that, you know, they shouldn't even be talking about that. So, so I, you know, I just a lot of good dogs went into har and I would have liked to see many more of them, make it, you know, they're not anywhere near a no kill shelter. And, and, and a lot of money goes in there. And you know, I love to see things operate better, but but whoever is really in charge, doesn't want to hear this stuff. So I just, I just wanted to share that I spent a lot of time there and I cared about the dogs and, and I, I met a lot of really, really wonderful people there.
lisa mitch bernard:Yeah, we're very lucky to have a lot of really committed, talented people in the Pittsburgh rescue community in general, I've met a lot of them through my work with her and, and other rescues now. So we are very lucky in that regard. I mean, I really like to understand how, how it got to be that way, why, I mean, why you would go into Animal Rescue, if you don't, you know, if you're if you're not going to do everything you can to save an animal. On the other hand, I recognize that they have liability insurance issues and their criteria that they have to, you know, so this is the part that I'm trying to reconcile it, because I've heard stories like yours from other people for years. And, you know, I know from my own volunteering and fostering that, you know, the committee's would send out an email and say, you know, we're considering the committee is considering what, you know, putting this this or that animal down, if you're interested in adopting you have, you know, whatever, 24 hours or something. And then there are occasionally animals that they would, you know, they would say, we're putting this animal down, you know, for whatever reason, we're not allowing this one to be adopted out. And I have to assume that those are playability issues. But, you know, I just, I just kind of want to understand all of that. And, you know, are there more animals in some of those situations than they can manage it that time and they don't, you know, they weren't working with the rescue to pull it or whatever. So yeah, I really appreciate your, your taking the time to share your story, man, and username.
Unknown:Is it okay? Oh, absolutely. It was Mary. Mary Withrow was very good at reaching out and working with rescues. But, you know, the sense I get from talking to dawn and from talking to other people at rescues is that, you know, har is not no harm is not so interested in, in reaching out. That's not among the skills that, you know, there. People have these days. And I and, and there was a big there was a big thing about loyalty you were supposed to, you know, when you worked there, you were supposed to be really loyal and do what you were told and not ever say a bad word. And, you know, there was a model, they are that, you know, that I couldn't follow, but that people they're good. But anyway, I don't know if I've told you anything new, but you know, I'm
lisa mitch bernard:sure. Yeah.
Unknown:I mean, Dan has always been respectful. And I've met a lot of wonderful people they are but I think that they've done some terrible managing and they've, you know, there are volunteers, it made me so sad for them that they you know, spend so much time there and then got kicked out. And, you know, I mean, I had a little more time to think about it because I was on the verge of getting kicked down for for so long. But it's, you know what they did to Mary and to Jane and you know, to end to possibly David. You know, that's just horrible.
lisa mitch bernard:Yeah, it was hard. It's been hard to see. But people leave whether fired or quit their own volition or some combination thereof. But
Unknown:I do want to say that there were people who worked there. This get the dog I adopted a couple of years ago, who was who was supposed to be aggressive. There were a number of people who worked on the floor, who made friends with him, and who just made a point of sort of secretly being his friend and doing everything they could for him. And you know, there were there were a lot of people there who really cared. Yeah, and definitely, often, yeah,
lisa mitch bernard:he didn't go work. So
Unknown:I didn't want to ask. But I mean, I want to say it isn't everybody there, it's just that there's some weird power structure they are that, you know, kicks out good people.
lisa mitch bernard:I look forward to delving into all of that and finding out what I can. So
Unknown:thank you so much. And thank you for listening. It's it's nice to talk about it now that there's a little a little time they are I you know, I still talk to people. I mean, I know people who volunteer, they're still I still talk to them and hanging out. And I still talk to people who used to volunteer there with me. And you know, I'm glad I got to volunteer.
lisa mitch bernard:So yeah, yeah. And thank you so much. And thanks for everything.
Unknown:Thank you for the work that you're doing. I've seen your name all over the place. It's nice to I've seen you on next door. It's nice to I used to live in Edgewood, so.
lisa mitch bernard:Okay. Yeah,
Unknown:my neighbor I still read. I still read the, the next door for that for that area. So anyway, so thank you for everything you do. And, you know, let me know if I can answer any questions or anything.
lisa mitch bernard:I will I definitely. Well, thank you so much. And I will talk to you another time. Okay. I
Unknown:look forward to reading any, you know, anything you write. Thanks.
lisa mitch bernard:Thank you for listening to my conversation with Mary Hill. For more information about the organizations and other things we talked about, visit PGH tails.com. That's phtails.com Pittsburgh tails, his podcast about the creatures of Western Pennsylvania and the people who care for and about them. It was created and is hosted, edited and produced by me, Mitch Bernard. If you have a comment, question or suggestion, or you'd like to be on the show, email me at Mitch at PGH tails calm thanks for listening.