EPR Minisode 14: Behind the Mic with Nic and Laura

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode Nic and Laura talk behind the scenes at EPR!

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Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Welcome back to EPR. 

Today we're shaking things up a bit with a behind the scenes takeover. If you've ever listened to us for the past few years, you know, we've interviewed countless environmental experts, but today we're flipping the mic. You'll be hearing from us with Kacie for marketing and Marley from production leading the conversation. Very cool. 

Nic and Laura, it's great to have you on the show. It's great to be here. Thanks, Marley. Yeah, thank you so much. It's a pleasure, truly. OK, how are you guys doing today? Where are you at? Where are you located? All right, Laura, you first, you first. Yes, I'm doing fantastic, thank you. I am in New York City actually, I'm in Manhattan, pretty close to the World Trade Center. Yeah, also doing well, uh, in the DC area, more like Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland type thing than actual DC, but just depends on the day. Today I'm in Maryland. OK, I love that. We're all representing the East Coast for this episode. OK, starting off strong, we want to know, walk us through a typical episode day. What is your pre-recording ritual? Is it a diet Coke before? Is it, is it some breathing exercises? Oh man. Oh this is terrible. Uh, when I come to this co-working space to work on Fridays, which is when we normally record, it's what they call pastries day, which is actually Eamin donuts and other garbage, so. I would say my ritual is telling myself I'm not gonna partake in those and then doing it anyway. Right, right, oh, that's too funny. No, for me it's kind of like. You know, I'm working from home most of the time, and it's kind of a whirlwind of responsibilities and things to do. 

So it's almost like you guys know I like to improv stuff and in a way I just like to show up. I just like to turn on the mic and let's go. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what you do. Marley and I are here 15 minutes early and then you just show up, but most of the time I have a meeting right until the interview, like even today I was like a minute late because I was wrapping up a meeting with my boss. And so Fridays are just full of like, how did the week go kind of meetings, and then I go into an interview, which actually truly it's a really great way to like kind of reset on a Friday. Well, to keep in line with keeping you on your toes, we did not give you these questions ahead of time. So what everyone really wants to know is how you decide which guests or topics do you talk about on your podcast. Yeah, I have to say these are, I was not sure what you guys are going to ask, but this is really fun. This is great, yeah. I mean, but you know what it is, it's so much of like podcasting in general is finding people and so like that's a lot of work, that's hard, that's not easy. And so sometimes, you know, we want to say that like this is very focused and we're always looking for exactly ABCD and sometimes that's true, true, you know, we want to have Fred on, for example, or Sunny, you know, there's a specific thing we want to keep following up with, but sometimes it's like, you know, we want environmental, you know, somebody, this is a person who's available. Let's get him on. There is more to it, so maybe I'll shut up. There is more to it. So this was my task before Marley came on as our executive producer, and uh I am forever grateful that it's not my task anymore. That's stuff. 

It's, it's just constant and you have to keep your eye out, and I do keep an eye out on people and then forward them to her, but it's basically just looking for people who have some sort of actual environmental background. So it's, we have had some people who have, you know, gone the non-traditional non-educational route, and that's fine, but we mostly stick to people who have some sort of degree and who would fall under this isn't podcast that's sponsored by NAEP. So it would also people who would generally fall under the typical. for NAP as well. So environmental professionals is the larger umbrella. And then, of course, we're looking for people who have some sort of following or example of having spoken online somewhere so we can see how they would be on the show. And also, I think the hardest part is just trying to make it diverse. So, you know, the topics, we try not to repeat too often unless it's on purpose for bringing Fred Wagner back for legal or something, but we're usually trying to say, we haven't talked about that before. Let's have them on. Yeah. It is quite the process. Yeah. It's a work in progress, for sure. Um, OK, pivoting a little bit. So you guys are now seasoned hosts, having done over, you've broken the 200 episode benchmark. So it's been going on for quite a while now. So what do you feel like is one skill that you've really picked up as being professional conversationalists on EPR? Oh, I have an answer, but Laura, please go first. Yeah, I think that's it right there, the art of the stall. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes, patience is what I was gonna say. I think it's more like, let me defer that question to someone else while I think about this for a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I just did it right there. That's perfect. No, I mean, it's funny, like the first episode that we did, the first couple of interviews, there's one I think with Betty Dehoney, for example, I listened back to it and I'm like, I was terrible, just for myself, like my expectations, I was terrible. I felt terrible. I was anxious, I was nervous, and I did not slow down. I was like, here's a 1000 miles an hour, yeah, and my question was like 8 miles long, and I was, it was as if I took like an espresso right before, you know, and yeah, so that was, it's like patience, you know, I think, I don't know, Laura, from you, but like I think about like what has changed over time, right? We used to be really rigid about the questions. 

Like these are the questions we're gonna ask, this is what we're gonna hit. And now we have more of an outline than an actual guide, and for me, I think that's been kind of like essential because we both like to have some interplay in an interview because it's more authentic. Yeah, I think it's a balance because we started with no script and that was awful. And then we have a script that we followed very closely and now we, we have learned the skill of impromptu, just kind of taking it where it goes and doing follow-up questions and not having to stick to the script quite so closely. And I think we've gotten really good at using our I'm not gonna give away our secrets, but our ability to communicate while the interview is happening. Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it's like nonverbal too. I mean, you know, it's just kind of like, oh yeah, yeah, I can see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see Laura you're gonna ask a question again. I know because I'm like looking up into the space into space like trying to find my I got a question. So me and Marley have a secret code too. Oh yeah. Been doing for the best. Definitely still working on our skills in the interview process, but flipping the switch on the other side, what have you learned from the people, from the guests? Is there something they all have in common in this environmental realm? So it's not I'll go for at once now. Um, I think. That there's so much to every episode is like, you know, learning so much about a different industry or a different leadership skill or whatever. And I think that, I don't know, I love learning from them, the different ways that they have. Especially the ones who work like closely with policy and stuff, the way that they are controlling their mindset around the things that are happening currently with the administration and really seeing to how different people respond or not even respond, but how different people are behaving. Even an interview, some of them are really, really casual and really great to talk to. And some of them are a little bit harder to pull questions out of.

And it's like, I would like to learn from those ones that are just really great at just being themselves. And I think that's the key. The ones who just show up when they're not worried about sounding wrong and they're not worried about how they might be perceived and they're just sharing their knowledge openly, those are the best ones. Oh gosh, they really are. And it's like, like Laura said, you learn something new every time. Every time there's something you can take away from it. The guests themselves, like everybody's a little bit different, right? You can understand, like, I think Laura and I are both good enough to realize that we can navigate whatever we shows up, right? I think when we first started, some of that was like, what do we do now? You know, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I think like, you know, we haven't had an interview. Honestly, we really haven't anyway, but like, I'm not afraid of an interview going in a different direction than I expected. I think we had one, like the one just before this one went in a completely different direction than I was expecting, and I don't know, I think that's kind of the joy of it in a way. And that's like, I think that's why we still like doing it is because it's very different every time. Everybody's a little bit different, but, you know, our expectations are, you know, pretty realistic, so it's pretty fun. Love it. I think it's a sort of a subset question off of that, but maybe a little broader, zooming out. I know there's like a lot of stereotypes about the environmental professional community of being tree huggers are loving to hike. But what would be like your overarching takeaway of the community? I know you kind of touched on that resiliency in times of uncertainty, but just the broad understanding of the community as a whole. I will say like one time I was trying to buy a car, they asked me what I did, you have to write it down. I'm an environmental scientist, and they were like, so do you want a Prius? I was like, no. So there's definitely stereotypes. 

There are stereotypes out there. I think we, you know, Laura and I have talked a lot about like There's a stereotype too that, you know, it's like oh if you're working in the environmental space, you're not making money. And it really, that's not true. It's not even remotely true. It just depends on what you're doing more than anything else. So the community is huge and it's very broad. It covers lots of different things, lots of different people with different thoughts, wants, needs, ideas. There's some universal stuff, sure, but even like, you know, Fred's an environmental lawyer that doesn't like going outside. I mean, what more can you say? That, that right there to me is like the group, you know. Yeah, I think there is a stereotype. There are common threads. There's a lot of like people who do want to spend time in nature and even if they aren't going in it, I mean, Fred loves the cherry blossoms, so like there's he lives of one tree. Yeah, for sure. There's still a common thread in that regard. A lot of gardeners, a lot of hikers and travelers and people who just like to, yeah, experience life, right? And, but then as far as like political spectrums, there are those who are calm and cool about it, and there are those. Who are like, well, the world's on fire, so that I think that part is vastly different. Yeah, I would agree. But it's, it's funny, you know, it's like you have, if you're working in the field in particular, you have to be a little resilient because like Mother Nature does not care what your plans are. And in a lot of ways, that's policy is the same. You cannot predict everything that's gonna happen, you can't control all of that, so all you can do is roll with it. And I think on the whole, the environmental professionals are pretty good at that. 

That was a great wrap up question. OK, Kacie, I was gonna say zooming back in, has there ever been an interview that completely changed your perspective on an environmental issue? That's a great question. It's a great question, which is how we stall to answer the question. I feel like, yes, stalling, stalling. I feel like, yes, but can I remember which one it was? Oh, that's gonna be the challenging part. It'll come to me like 5 minutes after we stop recording. You have 208 to choose from. I know I know, right? There's, there's lots of different things that like, I think our interview with Shell Gamman if you remember talking about data. And like my expectations for that interview was like, oh we were just gonna have a regular old interview, and it was like super fun. Like it was just like, we were joking about her and her kids and how like. Yeah, she's always on the phone all the time and like her kids were like, Yeah, I want a job where I just talk to my friends all day because that's what they thought that she did. And it was such a fun kind of interview. And that was one where like, it's just like you're not expecting it to go in these directions and it was just delightful. We found out that she played rugby in college and she was like, How the heck did you know that? And it was just a funny, funny moment and For me, it's like, that's kind of more of a surprise sometimes than like, you know, like knowing what's happening in the environmental space right now, understanding that, having a, you know, get close to it, doesn't mean you get surprised by it. 

So it's usually something like that where it's a little bit outside of what I know on a day to day basis, where I'll get surprised by something and like the work that she was doing was also really good and really interesting. And so, All of that was pretty new to me. I think they, you know, when Sony comes on and she's talking to us, I talked to her the other day about like, I, I was like, what is AI and like how much of this do I need to be like doing? And she's like, all of it, come on. And we had a really long conversation about that kind of thing and that would be another one. Matt Sekel and ESG was in, you know, the first time we talked to him in particular it was pretty great and that was like kind of opened my eyes to a lot of the what the work that he does. So there's a lot of, I mean golly, there's so many choices, but, you know, there's a couple for me. Yeah, like Kacie said, there's 208 choices. And I'm running through all of them through my head and I'm like, oh that was great, that was great, but I can't, I can't think of an actual one that that changed my mind or maybe do something, but I'm I know that it's there. OK, well, I know that you've had all these different conversations and have probably been exposed to so many different Environmental phenomenon’s and issues throughout the past few years on EPR, but you've also worked in a lot of different areas within the environmental professional realm. So what would you consider to be one environmental issue that isn't super big on mainstream media that doesn't get talked about as much. And you guys are hitting us with some hard ones. Fabulous question. You know this is supposed to be a casual show, right? That was, that was Kacie's question. No, it's, like your friend said, AI, yeah, right. 

And under the radar environmental issue. Well, I mean, so when I was in grad school, like I did a lot of work on environmental conservation in medicine. Conservation medicine was like the cute term for it at the time, but it's really the idea that if you take care of the environment, it takes care of people, right? Like a lot of the diseases we get are from, you know, animals and a lot of the time when we, you know, when we lose diversity, you kind of increase the human's exposure to animals and you limit the pool of animals that are around, you kind of end up getting more disease. You get more people who are sick, more people that die. So in a way, I think for me, like sometimes like connecting small things or things that don't seem related, like biodiversity means healthier people, is a really hard concept for people to grasp, and that's always been something that's not quite on the surface. It's just a little bit below what people would think. And there was this great chart, and I, I wish I could remember it off the top of my head, but it's basically like showing the amount of ticks is actually related to the amount of acorns that deer deer eat. And so like that was my Southern coming out by the way, deer, um, but like the, the amount of acorns that deer eat, you know, and that's directly related to how Lyme disease in people and it's a strange thing. So it's like if you have more deer in a more concentrated space with less food availability, ticks have to bite something and if the deer aren't there, or if they're only in one place, guess where they're gonna go. 

And that's the kind of stuff that like, you know, it's Weird to think about, but it's like the ticks are going to find people because that's what's available. They will bite what's there. It's kind of a wild thing to think about. I think, and even, even trying to explain it, it's tough, it's hard, and like I'm doing it off the top of my head, so I can't wait for someone to tell me how wrong I was. But that's kind of like, that is definitely one of those things that's under the radar. Don't hear a lot about that is really important. Yeah, that's a good one. I think too, just in general, you know, especially now is environmental justice and even women in the environmental field, it's they're still there in areas, but it's not there enough across the board, and I think we can do better in those areas as well. I agree. I'm not good at these segues. I give you the next question. What do you think all these in, yeah, yeah, this is amazing. Um, next question, Kacie. If you could give one piece of advice to someone just starting out in the environmental field, based on what you've learned through EPR, what would it be? Listen to EPR. Yes. Honestly, I tell that to everyone I coach because they're like, I, but most of the time they want to know what do I look for and where do I look? And so I'm telling them, hey, there's this podcast where you can listen to 100, 200 people from different jobs and hear about what they do and their advice for getting into them. Yeah, I mean that's phenomenal.

 Also that, I also say that, and I think to that end, it's almost always follow your curiosities, right? That's really like 9 times out of 10, that's gonna take you where you need to be. If you like something and you get to get paid to do it, I mean, that's just easier, you know, it's like I had a conversation with someone I was like, oh, I, I need to work on in this field because that's where the opportunity is. Do you like that? No, not really. So you're, you're gonna purposely work on something you don't enjoy just because it's there, that you're not gonna be happy and then you won't laugh, and then you wanna do something else. Start with something you enjoy, you know, follow the curiosity. Exactly. I could ask that question a lot too, and that my advice is not to do that because it could change. And where you live, it depends, you know, it could be different. Are you willing to travel to go get that thing? And then you're competing with people who maybe want that and have been working towards it longer than you. So you're then you're just giving yourself a disadvantage. Yeah. So, and I think too that, you know, when we're talking about what have we learned through EPR most of the advice that we have is networking, following your passions, exploring if you don't know what that is. So that's, it's. When you talk to people who have been there, done that, it's all the same. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And it's that would apply to any field really, not just the environmental, but 100%. I think too, having a community where you can listen to people's, what they're kind of going through and you realize, wow, these are so many diverse guests, and they all have the same struggles. But speaking of struggles, excellent. 

We're gonna make you guys struggle with another question. No, um, we've had consultants and politicians and lawyers, we've had butterfly farmers, we've had so many different guests on. If you could pick going back through the vault, any of the occupations of the guests that we've had on to be in their position, what would it be? Oh wow, can we just like pause the recording for a minute? Um No, I mean, I can't choose them all. No, yeah, and Laura, you have to choose one this time. I know, right? So, well, I'm going to say this because it's at the forefront of my mind, but Tiffany DeWong and her Exploration and saving coral reefs. And right now she is literally just landed in the Antarctic to do more exploration. And if I could tolerate the cold, if I was as awesome as she is, I think that that could be it. Yeah, I mean, that's such a great way. I mean, it's as awesome. And we all do this. It doesn't matter where you are. I was like, if only I was like that person, you know, there's always somebody to strive to be, and for me it's probably Fred, you know, like I think like the way he's, he is, is just somebody, it's impossible for me not to look up to him anyway, but he's lived a really good, really fun career and he's navigated it really well. So, yeah, we're giving him too much flowers.

We need to give Ted some as well, but, uh, if I could have Ted's boat and uh. I think that would be amazing, but no, I think it'd probably be Fred's career. Uh, that's the one. Well, Fred, watch out, Nic's coming for you, right, yeah. Is Fred the one with the Lego collection? No, no, that was Matt. Oh, OK, OK. Yeah. A Lego collection would be cool too. That would be, it would be pretty neat, for sure. Yes, and doing ESG and sustainability for Microsoft would also be a pretty killer job. That would be pretty great. Well, now that we know who and what you'd want to do, a better question is, if you had an unlimited budget and time, what would our dream episode be like? Oh gosh. Would we also be in the Antarctic? I mean, I, you know, I'd be voting for somewhere less freezing. I wouldn't, I would be right there in the let's go to the Antarctic. Let's do it all. If we could do so the dream is still on Zoom and Nic is in the Antarctic and I am in Norway in the summer. Just wanted to let you guys know it's, it's cold down here. Yeah, um, if we had an unlimited budget, I mean, I think Laura and I both love to travel. I think that's what we would do. We would just go to different countries, talk about how they do environmental things and bring that to everybody, and that that part would be, that would be really fun if we could make it somebody sponsor us to travel around the world, I would do it. Yes, so the dream episodes would be traveling to our guests and meeting them live on site rather than. Just on Zoom talking. Yeah, but I mean like, where would you go first? I mean, like, that's almost impossible to answer. Well, unfortunately, that was our next question. 

Oh, they're sticking to the script. We're rigid, this is our first how we're starting out. Yeah, yeah, this is their first on script journey, right, right, right, right. So if you could collaborate with any person or organization in the world. And we can pretend you have the unlimited budget in time. Right, of course. Who would it be? I mean, the easy answers, David Attenborough, for me, I mean, that's, that would be so cool cause he's still kicking it, he's like 97 or something, but still rolling around, but that's just the first thing that comes to my mind, honestly. Yeah, hm, I think that Laura's gonna have a cooler answer than me, trust me. I'm not sure. I don't know. I think I would want to be talking to someone who has incredible amount of reach and influence, and somebody who's maybe doing work. So like Leonardo DiCaprio, right? Isn't that like your that's kind of where my brain was going a little bit, um, you know, so if anyone has ties to Leonardo DiCaprio, you know that um. Some of our past guests did actually and um. But it's, yeah, OK, thanks Marley. I forgot you two were buds or like this. Yeah. Well, listen, you know, maybe once you're on the pro soccer team, you'll have a lot more clout and pull, so you'll be getting us some of those famous people on here. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, there you go. Any French famous people you want me to reach out to? I mean, that would be cool. Let's talk to like people who are doing environmental work in other countries and their governments and seeing like what's happening. Well, I remember we talked to a guest who said they recycled their fuel in France, which I did not know that. That was a new fact for me. Yeah. So there you go. Marley is coming to us live from France at the moment, so. That's why her name is called that way. Malay. Yeah, I know that's what I told her. That's exactly what I. We. Oh, she's learning the language too. Yeah, yeah, she's learned one word. 

Oh man, so what, what else you got for us? OK, a big one. Where do you see EPR in 5 years? I, I feel like we're being interviewed for real now. Your 5 year plan, Nic. 5 year plan. I mean, I have an idea, but I like Laura, I I think it was more back to our the dream conversation we were just talking about. Yeah. In 5 years, you know, people should be banging down the door to be on the show. Right, I agree. And I think there's a certain amount of hustle that goes into this kind of thing, and there's a breaking point where the hustle gets a little bit easier, and it's one of the ways that it's gotten a little bit easier is having this team with us on this journey, and that's been great. So even from where we started to where we are now, the grind isn't quite as grinding, and that's a testament to you guys and helping us out, and that kind of allows us to do the hustle, and I think that's where we are is we're in like Hustle mode, and I think that's gonna in 5 years you're gonna see that be different, that that be showing up in the kinds of guests we have even. Yeah, so I would say more famous isn't the right word, but more influential guests. Influential is a great word. And more sponsors. Yeah, and we're on the cusp of doing some of that and I guess we haven't really talked a lot about some of what we do on the sponsor side of things, but like, you know, we could have more sponsors in the show, but we're trying to get to a point where we can get the right sponsors on the show, and we're really close to that, and it's pretty cool. So yeah, that's right. And since we're talking about the team, we can acknowledge that Ninja Sam has joined us. I know the shadows, yes. 

Well, she's catching the, the latter end of our, of this episode today of our special segment. But before we get to field notes, we have one question. I know you guys do love some animal facts, sticking with the environmental theme. So we wanted to ask if EPR was an animal, what would it be and why? That's a fabulous question. Oh my gosh. Oh man, I have to go with Badger. Badger, you have to explain that, you have to explain it. I just feel like it's uh You know, it's something that we do every week. It takes so much work. It's like if you're in a bad mood or you have too much going on, you know, you're so busy, like you just, you have to show up with a tenacity. Yeah. And then when we get here, we have to be cute. Yes, and, and, you know, gosh, it's such a great thing that you said, like, uh, we check our egos at the door and I know, I'm thinking of one interview in particular where I'm starting off and for whatever reason, I'm just like hot. And Laura's like, can you calm down? So like you're interrogating this guy. Oh my gosh, you're so right, and it's like I have all this other stuff going on and I brought it here and I don't usually do that, but I did on that one, and we have enough space to like. Actually, listen, right? Cause if my ego is too big, and then I don't hear what she's saying and I just brush it off, but that's not how we work and that's not how we operate. And I don't know, it's funny though, like my first thing that when you asked me the first animal that popped in my head was cheetah. Because it's like we run as fast as we can for like one hour and then we stop and we do it again next week, you know, and it's like, uh, sprints, yeah, sprints, sprints, sprints, we also look cool while doing it. So yeah, I know it's just there's no ego here. 

No, none, none whatsoever. I didn't say I didn't have any. It's uh yeah, I'm just glad you guys no one's surprised about. Yeah, I know, right. But uh at least I know. I don't know. It's kind of like it's a constant sprints and wait, sprint and wait, sprint and wait. There's a lot of that and it comes in small bursts all over the place. Sometimes it's not during our interviews even, it's, you know, finding guests and making sure we're vetting them and all that. So it's, that's how I would describe it. Lara's badger made me think of beavers cause like we're building something. Yeah. We're making dams. Yes, yes, OK, new mascot for Maybe we, maybe we just have like a little family, badger and a cheetah, the beaver, throw a fox in for some reason, right. I don't know, I just, you know, it's the next thing that came to my head. All right, so, uh, yeah, I think Sam's avatar on our page is like a snow leopard, not snow leopard, um, yeah, no, isn't that it? Sea seal snow seal, thank you. 000 yes, of course. I can just see the spots. That's all I can see in my head right now. I'm mixing my land and aquatic spotted animals. And I just was like there for you. I was like, yeah, let's do this. I agree. Yeah, that's it. That's it. All right, what else you got for us? Yeah, OK, um, I'll double up here. 

OK, so now we're on the field notes. I hope you guys have a story you haven't shared yet on the show, um, in the, you have to do the whole intro, Marley. OK, OK. Yeah, yeah. True, true. We have a segment called Field Notes. Oh wait, hashtag field notes. OK, we have a segment called #Field Notes, the part of the show where we talk to our guests about memorable moments doing the work. Please send your funny, scary, awkward field notes with us so we can read them in a future episode at info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com. OK, like I said, we've heard plenty of wild stories in the show, but do you guys have one that you haven't shared with our listeners yet? We'd love to know. I think I've got one. I think I've got up. I want to say in 5 years, I want people to actually be sending us their stories. I know, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's funny because I have had many people reach out to me about it and like they want us to do it and I'm like, well send me a story and they're like, yeah, to do it. I'm like, no, you do it right. So mine, I'll go to another one of my, like, it really was fun to like track turtles with a radar antenna, and I mean like I had this pack on my, my, around my neck and then like literally like a radar antenna. It's like a, you know, a line and like, you know, spines out the side of it. 

So it was literally moving around listening to beeps and then following the beeps as they get louder to a turtle, like that was what I was doing. And I was like, you know, I take a GPS point where the turtle was, and then we compare that to where it was the day before, and so on and so forth. So we're trying to get an idea of where they go, what they're doing, you know, all that just to kind of see what we're doing. So I've told you guys the story about like getting knocking myself out when I was by myself, learning a very valuable lesson about why you should be in the field with other people, right? So I know I've told that one, but there's another one. Where I remember, so basically I was going 2 miles into a forest and then 2 miles back. So it is, it is quite an adventure to get there. And I had one turtle who, no matter which way I went into the forest, would go the other way. He would be on the other side of the swamp. And so I either had to go in 2 miles, back out 2 miles, and then around, or this one genius plan I had was, this time I'll walk across the swamp, what could go wrong. And it's the island and it's mostly muck and I start walking across this thing and I'm like almost a quarter of the way over and I'm absolutely stuck, not just sort of stuck, but like, oh man, I am in this and so I'm like, OK, uh. There's no one else here. I hadn't knocked myself out yet, so I didn't know that I needed to have somebody with me. And you'd think that this would be the story that tells me, no, it's not. But I just know, OK, all I've got to do is sit on my butt and work my boots out of the muck and I can turn around and I'll go back and I'll undo all this. And so I'm starting to do that and it's totally fine. And then it had been cloudy all day and then it got like dark as I'm doing this, you know, like it literally starts to rain, and I'm like, that's not great. And then it starts to lightning, and I've got this metal rod in my hands and I'm in the middle of a swamp with no trees above me, and I'm like huffing it out, you know, trying not to get struck by lightning, which was fine. I ended up being OK, and I mean, but a torrential downpour, I was soaked to the bone. 

I mean, like, no part of me was dry. And you know, it was, and I cursed that turtle up and down and called him Big B after that. It did not stand for beautiful, you guys can figure out what that means, but like I was so I, it was, it was a bad day. That was a bad, bad day. Sounds like memorable story. EPR is not a turtle. If it is an animal, it's not a turtle. Definitely not a turtle. Oh man, so I have, I can't remember which ones I've told before, so I'm trying to figure out what did I tell you the story about the seahorse and the kayak? Um, I don't think so. So this is, I think it's a great story. So we used to do a lot of seagrass monitoring and then I think this particular time that we were doing artificial reef monitoring in Tampa Bay, and I had actually developed this. Spatial analysis method of taking GPS points from the kayak, where the bubbles come up, so like it's very shallow, so it's not like the bubbles are going to come up miles away from the actual location. So you would be kayaking above the person who's doing the data and you could follow where they were going. And I'm sitting out on a kayak, probably, I don't know, half a mile away from the shore, and I'm in this kayak by myself, and I look over and there's a little mangrove, like a yellow mangrove leaf floating in the water, and then I see it go, boop boop. Like, it dips down in the water a little bit, and I'm like, what? And then, upon further investigation, I find out there is a tiny little baby seahorse. Holding on for dear life. Ah. And it's so far from the shore. Oh, so I had like you know the little water sample bottles, so I took it, we, we grabbed him and then when we were done with our transect, we took him to the shore and reintroduced him to the seagrass area and hopefully he lives for the rest of its little life there, but it was such a random, you know, the chances of it floating by me and me being a person who would even notice. The leaf moving. 

Let alone, yeah, figure out, know what to do afterwards too. Right, exactly. So it was, it was just such a, you know, right place, right time kind of a moment. And, you know, plus who doesn't just love a seahorse. Yeah, that's great. And then I'll tease another one. Stay tuned for more episodes, uh, when Nic reveals getting scared by a manatee, and there we go. Um, yeah, so we can say that. There you go, perfect, we'll save him, we'll save him. Cause that's all the time we have. We're running out. Anything you'd like to talk about. Before you let us go surreal. It really is. Oh God. How can people get in touch with you. You can actually, honestly, you can go to our website environmentprofessionalsradio.com. You can email us from there. That's probably the easiest way to get in touch with us, but we also have handles, you know, find us on LinkedIn. Yeah, definitely on LinkedIn, um, on Insta, but, um, yeah, the environmental career coach everywhere. I guess if I have any finals words to add, I would just say I appreciate this team and I thank you guys for putting these questions together. 

It was very thoughtful and fun to kind of run through. So it almost feels, it almost, it's reminiscent to me of sitcoms from the 80s and 90s when they always got to a point where they had a reboot episode where they would reminisce about episodes from the past. Yeah, remember that time when, yeah. Yeah, they'd be camping and then it would start raining and then they'd have nothing better to do but reminisce and then they would go back to past episodes. Yeah, and I don't know, it's fun to look back and enjoy and appreciate the show. Like I say, it's so much different than where we started and like I said, like, the help that we have, all of you helping us out, it's, it's wonderful. It truly is. I can't, I can't even put it into words, but like, Yeah, it's just a joy to make. It's so much fun. We're still having fun. Laura and I, when we first started, we're like, that was like our first question, we're still having fun, and we don't have to ask it anymore. Like it just doesn't, you know, like we just are, you know, and every time, it's a great thing. I, I very much look forward to doing it and I can't wait to keep doing it. Same. That was beautiful. We appreciate you guys very much. That was so good, yeah. Very cool. Well, thank you guys for doing this. This was really fun. Thanks for letting us to flip the mic over. It's been a joy. Back to you guys. Have that. Yeah, that was a little too much. Well that's goodbye to each other. That's another fun one. Every time Nic puts his hand up. See you. See you, everybody. Bye!