Media-Powered Advocacy, Persistent Policy Leadership, and Place-Based Inspiration with Carissa Cabrera

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we talk with Carissa Cabrera, Founder of Futureswell an ocean conservation consultancy scaling solutions for planet ocean about Media-Powered Advocacy, Persistent Policy Leadership, and Place-Based Inspiration.   Read her full bio below.

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Showtimes: 
2:02 - Carbon Footprints of Travlers
8:55 - Interview with Carissa Cabrera begin
21:40 - Something I learned as an Advocate
29:35 - What kind of stories do you share?
41:45 - Carissas Hobbies; Bookclub!

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Carissa Cabrera https://www.linkedin.com/in/carissa-cabrera-b14a6a13a/

Guest Bio: 
Carissa Cabrera is an ocean climate advocate, Harvard-recognized content creator, and has dedicated her career to conserving planet ocean. For the past 10 years, she has focused on ocean recovery efforts—working with endangered species, ecosystem restoration, conservation financing, community outreach, and environmental literacy. She founded Futureswell in 2020, a conservation consultancy and storytelling firm dedicated to advancing community-based ocean climate solutions through partnerships with NGOs, coalitions, and accessible media. Specifically, she works on the development strategy of innovative ocean climate solutions that serve Hawai'i and the broader ocean community. For example, she developed the first coral restoration training program in the Pacific specifically dedicated to training Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders on diving restoration, and recently was the long-standing community organizer for passing the first visitor green fee legislation in the United States. She has been recognized as Ocean Influencer of the Year by Coral Reef Alliance, is an established educator under National Geographic Society, and was one of the inaugural Climate Creators to Watch by Harvard. Carissa's work, company, and media projects share one mission: to expand pathways for ocean climate action and accelerate collective conservation solutions globally.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR! 

It's your favorite environmental enthusiast, Nic and Laura. On today's episode, Laura and I talk about environmental guilt. We interviewed Carissa Cabrera about media powered advocacy, persistent policy leadership, and place-based inspiration. And finally, in light of our conversation on what not to do with lava rocks in Hawaii, keep these travel tips in mind if you ever do visit those islands. Wildlife protection laws in Hawaii state that you need to keep a distance of 10 ft from turtles, 50 ft from monk seals, and 50 yards from dolphins and small whales. And also, can't stress this enough, if there is a fence or a sign that says don't do something, there's probably a good reason. So, follow the signs. 

Um, and finally was more of a PSA. It really is. It's really more of that because I, you see it every year. Every year somebody doesn't, it's like, I don't know what happened. I was totally fine and then I just got sucked out to see. It's like, yeah, there's a giant sign that says don't go in the water. So, uh, anyway, I couldn't help myself. I thought that was great. 

Hit that music. 

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Let's get to our segment. We haven't talked about traveling in a while. I haven't really been anywhere cool recently, unless you count, um, I don't think, I mean, I would South Dakota. Yeah. It was cool. It's always cool. I go there to work with a nonprofit that works with the Native Americans, so we go check out a reservation and watch the donations get made and everything. It's a good time. Cool, that's cool. Yeah, it's not really there. It's not like fun travel. You know who has really notoriously terrible carbon footprint is athletes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I think Formula One is the biggest culprit of that. They've traveled all over the world, and then just, you know, what's their job to burn rubber and spin gas, you know, it's kind of what they do. Mm, sounds like Marley might have some carbon footprint gilts. Yeah. I do. I totally do. Oh my gosh, I'd love to somehow do some sort of initiative where I can, you know, pay back some carbon credits, but I also, as someone who's still in the bus leagues, you know, would need a little bit of let me develop my career before I can start making those types of donations. But it's in my head. Right? I don't think that, I mean, I know that guilt keeps getting used in different ways, but I know that like environmental depression is a thing. I hadn't really heard of the environmental guilt per se as uh related to your own carbon footprint, but then again, the guilt is what, that I'm not doing anything about it or I can't do anything about it. Or I should do something about it, but I'm not. Or maybe I shouldn't be doing it to begin with. So I know, I don't know if anybody, Nic, when you book travel and it says like this flight uses 30% less emissions, like does that make a difference in your purchase? Absolutely not, actually. And still, I still needed to be, I mean, I, I go for nonstop, is that better? 

Well, yeah, I think so, but I mean, for me, it's, I think it's true of most people, right? It's the price more than anything else that matters, and that's what you can afford. And sometimes I think, you know, it's, sometimes we want everybody to do big grand things, right? We want people to like, oh, you got to donate, you know, X% of your salary or you've got to do X, Y, Z, but sometimes you don't have the means or the ability to do that. And it gets kind of, uh, no, not in today's economy. Yeah, it gets really stressful and like I said, we have to do what we can. We can't be perfect people and we can't do everything perfectly for the environment, you know, we still have to exist and live and do those kinds of things. We're all heating our homes, so it's not like we're, it doesn't mean you can't do things, and I think the joy of getting to a place where you have disposable income when you do get to that place. How you choose that to spend that money says a lot more about what you're doing, I think, than anything else does. So that's what I try to do. Yeah, I mean, have you watched The Good Place? Yes, yeah, yes. I mean, I, I thought that show was brilliant as far as demonstrating environmental guilt and there's really just, you're trading one option for another option. A great example for myself is paper plates versus washing dishes. Which one is better environmentally? 

Somebody's gonna tell you like, oh, you're wasting paper, but then if you visit the pulp makers, they're like, you should use paper. This is a renewable energy because we're replanting the plants and they're like, OK, which is it? I don't know. Yeah, and it's like, you know, we talked about straws in here. I think I think one of the interesting things about the, you know, straw, the plastic straws thing, we didn't get into it, you know, we talked about it, like, and I think it brought a lot of awareness to ocean waste, and I think that's a really great thing. Is our straws the number one culprit of ocean waste? No. But even like what we said in the interview is that doesn't mean you shouldn't change your habit. That's an easy one to change. I don't usually get straws, you know, just in general. I don't either, and I think that there's, but then the flip side of that is, is the, some people think that drinking out of a cup in a public place is disgusting. And I, I agree with that, but I just go, well, I hope this thing's been washed appropriately. Check for lipstick and then drink, you know. Yeah, and if I feel like it's kind of a place where it wouldn't be, I would, I would not feel guilty about asking for a straw. Right. And that's exactly the kind of the point I think I'm trying to make. It's like, you don't have to be 100% all the time perfect, like on anything, and I think sometimes there's that burden of expectation where you have to be. And all that does is create intense anxiety. Sometimes you can't, and that's OK. 

You don't have to be perfect. You just have to be able to be happy with the decisions that you've made. Yeah, so if you had one environmental thing that makes you guilty, what is it? I mean, I, it's probably flying. I mean, In general, I think that's a big one. I feel like if there's ever a wasted trip, that hurts. I remember flying to San Diego once and I was supposed to meet a whole bunch of people and I met 2 instead of 12, and I remember coming back feeling like, oh man, I didn't even, and the two people I met I knew already and like I'd already, we were just saying hi, you know, I was like, oh man, it's good to see you. And that hurt, that stung, and I felt like I, I just wasted energy. For lack of a better term, but both my own and environmentally. But you know, I, I try not to worry about that too much. It's not like the end of the world, but, you know, that's stuff. What about you though? I feel like the things that I, I don't know if they go all the way to feeling guilty, but I do feel guilty though, like if I forget to turn the water off while I'm brushing my teeth. When I was younger, that was the big thing, like, put a brick in your tank and turn the water off while you're brushing your teeth. That's how you're supposed to, on an individual basis, save the planet. And I feel like also I hate throwing away plasticware. Like if I'm at an event and that's all there is, and I sometimes I do have my own because I will carry that around till I've at least used it once. The worst for me is that with the plasticware is put out, never used, and then tossed. Yeah. Oh, the pain, it's not guilt. It's a different feeling. That is it's like. Oh, it is a horrible feeling just watching like, OK, well, there goes, there goes that. So I try, if I, if someone gives me plastic where I try to at least keep it till I use it one time, and then, then it can be disposed of if I need to. Yeah, that's very fair, and I think that's and sometimes that's, like I said, you're gonna run into those situations, you're gonna be at a conference that that does that kind of thing or whatever it is. I mean, I think most companies like reusable things because they're, it's just the costs less generally to do that kind of thing, but, you know. Like you said, there's always a different angle to look at it from, so I try to not to stress myself out too much by that and uh try to enjoy what you're doing and donate the causes, donate your time, donate money, and I think a lot of times we talk about donating money, but you can donate time too, and I think that's, that's another important thing to remember. So, I don't know, I feel like we've talked enough about that. But uh why don't we get to our interview? Sounds good. 

Hello and welcome to EPR. Today we have Carrissa Cabrera with us. Carissa is the founder of Future Swell, an ocean conservation consultancy scaling community-based solutions for planet Ocean. So you're based in Hawaii right now, and so much of your work focuses on islands. How did you end up in Hawaii? Thanks for having me, you guys, and I appreciate a thoughtful conversation. I ended up in Hawaii about 10 years ago. I was a bright-eyed undergraduate student trying to find a graduate program, and a friend recommended applying in Hawaii for a 2-year program, which is what I was looking for. I didn't want to get bogged down to 56 years of my life, and it was one of the It was the most attractive program to me at the end of it, and I had never been to Hawaii before and it was a completely new experience, but I do feel like it was one of the best decisions I've made. So you're, that was 10 years ago? And so tell us a little bit about your journey then. So you you get to the islands and you're like, this is great, and I'm never leaving, so that doesn't mean it always happen, sometimes people get out there and they're like kind of like, oh, this is too much or it's too far away or whatever it is. And you know, they have, I think they could even call it short timing or whatever it is, but like, uh, why did you stay? Yeah, well, anyone who's been to Hawaii understands that. The way that the community values the environment is really special and unique because of all the traditional knowledge that native Hawaiians have always practiced. And so, when I finished my graduate program, which was about 2 years, and I was looking for a job, I focused on ocean conservation, and there were so many incredible community nonprofits working on ocean conservation issues here, working on coral reefs and endangered species and. Plastics, and I was so inspired by how the community came together. And when I got my first job, I learned really quickly that we are able to make so much more progress here on environmental issues because of the collective mindset that is practiced by the community. 

This was the first place in the nation to have a, like, take out plastic ban, um, at the city and county level. Just always been leaders on the environmental and sustainability front. And after a handful of years working here, I've still, you know, thought about what it would look like to go closer back to my family or to go closer back to other coastal areas to practice marine conservation. But for now, it's been one of, like, the greatest gifts being a guest here and being able to work together towards shared solutions for the ocean. Yeah, and it's a really, really cool thing and like I love that. So, for example, you've been named like one of Harvard's climate creators to watch, and you founded, you know, Future Swell in 2020. But like, how did you get from, you know, this idea to future swell? How did you get there? What was the career path for you? That's a great question because I think, I hope it inspires people to just kind of take their crazy ideas and run with them. So I worked with nonprofits all my life, and anyone who's worked for small nonprofits knows that every person on staff. Wears many different hats, and you have to do everything and you have to be flexible and nimble. And I was watching the nonprofits that I was working for, like, continuously not be able to prioritize storytelling and media, which is how we get our mission out to everybody else. And I, at the same time, was watching the growth of modern social media, the growth of the Influencer market, the growth of all of these modern ways of getting messages out there. And in 2020, which was peak lockdown, we watched the ways that communities organize digitally to push forward a ton of progress on social justice movements. 

And at this moment, I was like, We need this for ocean climate work. Like, we need someone who understands how social media works, who understands how ocean climate issues work, and who can use these types of, you know, tools in our toolkit to get the messages out to the broader public, because that's the only way we're gonna change policy, and it's the only way that we're gonna scale up the work that we need to be doing. And that's kind of how Future u was born. It had a different name in the early days. It was just me for many years, but I started it, I struggled to describe it, and now here we are 5 years later, and it was a really big leap. But I think a lot of people were making leaps during the pandemic. They were taking a lot of risks. Yeah, but I mean, like, what a really fun one for you. So what is your mission? What are you trying to accomplish with futures small? Yeah, so Future Soul's goal, we're actually consultancy. We're not a nonprofit, but we work primarily with nonprofits and coalitions. And as a consultancy, our goal is to bridge messages on ocean climate issues to the general public. And so that can be through modern media like social media and narratives, but it can also be through campaigning and building like shared goals around policy and legislation, which is an avenue that I also watched a lot of the marine biologists that I used to work with, you know, feel scared to go there or feel nervous of what it means to advocate or what it means to stand behind proposed legislation. And so, Future swell helps to make that a little easier for nonprofits to do, and then also create easy ways for them to activate in the advocacy space on ocean climate issues, which we really need. We need people to feel brave enough to participate in the political process. Yeah, because it's not easy, it's, it can be one of the most intimidating things there is. So, yeah, I mean, like, where did that like inspiration to kind of take that on come from too, because that's also not something that people will think about all the time and that's a really cool thing for you to take on. Yeah. Well, I feel like I've always been an activist since I was younger, and I never really fit in when I was studying. 

I would, you know, I was very anti dolphin and whale captivity in grad school and I remember being like the only person in my entire cohort that was willing to like, say anything, and it was, it felt like radical in the spheres I was in. But you bring up a really good question, which is like, what inspired me to do it. And I don't know if you guys remember or if listeners remember the video that went viral of like a plastic straw being pulled out of a sea turtle's nose. Um, it was in 2018. It was a while ago. Something that a lot of people don't know is that that video actually sparked a wave of local legislation against plastic straw bands or voluntary businesses to opt out of straws. And it started. Truthfully, like, it was the final straw for public awareness to help shift these policies over the I guess, snowball effect over the hill. And what we saw is now anyone on the street, no matter if you know anything about the ocean or a marine biologist, you understand how straws impact wildlife because of that video. And mind you, like there were tons of organizations working on plastic bands up until this point, and that cultural moment is what allowed the legislation to pass into law. And so that was the story where I watched what It meant to use the media to accelerate ocean conservation solutions that then resulted in policy change. And now we have like, we've got paper straw haters and their discourse about the straws, right? Totally get it. And mind you, plastic straws are not the primary source of plastic pollution in the ocean at all. They're the ones who had the marketing campaign. They're the ones who had the video, and that's why they're the center of this conversation. Yeah, and it's a great point. Like, honestly, a video goes a very long way to proving a point. People really gravitate to that kind of thing and that kind of media as well. And I'm gonna spend some time talking to some about what you've done as well, and we'll kind of bounce around a few things here, but one of the, the major things I see that you helped play a role in passing Hawaii's first visitor, green fee, which is the first of its kind in the US, which by the way, I know what it is, and that's cool. I had no idea we'd. to somebody that that did that, that's really neat. 

What is Visitor Greenfeet and how does that work? OK, so you guys have heard of it. I have, yeah, for sure. OK, cool. Visitor green fees are used all around the world. There's about 15 to 18 programs, mostly at visitor destinations like the Maldives and Spain and tropical areas, but we haven't had one in the US before, and I was 25 when I got brought into that project and I spent the last 6 years of my life focused on building coalitions and advocacy campaigns and supporting the communications and strategizing with conservation leaders across Hawaii to help pass that. And it was my first project as a consultant, and I'm still on it now. And it passed into law in May. In 2025, it's gonna take effect in January 2026, and it's gonna generate over $100 million a year for climate solutions, and it's not that burdensome on a visitor, it actually comes out to If you're gonna come here and you're gonna stay at a hotel that's like $300 a night, which like is kind of the average price here, which is crazy. But if you're gonna do that, it's about $3 a night. It's a really small amount. It's less than you pay for a coffee, but because we have so many visitors each year, it adds up. This fight was something that taught me everything. About campaigning and about what it means to advocate with community and with many different voices and what it means to compromise on legislation and to hold the line when you need to and compromise when you need to, and all of these organizing tactics that I just simply wasn't learning when I was getting a master's degree in marine science. They'll teach you it. But now I would say, sorry, now I would just say that I am focusing now on ocean advocacy going forward now that I have these skills. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm gonna try to park it here as long as Laura will let me, because I think it's like, genuinely, it's a really compelling thing. It's not an everyday occurrence. People don't even think about it, but when you say having to compromise on things and working on this, this type of legislation, how did that process go? What kind of compromises did you end up making and how was that process? 

How did that actually work? Yeah. So, great question, and I could talk about the green feet all day. Because like I said, I dedicated like so much of my life to it. But there were a number of like key moments that I think are really helpful for listeners to understand, which is, one is that when this was first introduced, people thought that everyone was crazy and they kept calling it like a moonshot idea. But then what happened was, is COVID. COVID happened and during COVID, we watched visitors go from about 10 million a year to basically 0. And we Also watched people when people did start traveling a little bit after we watched them pay for a COVID test to enter here or pay for a register on like a form to enter the state. And so, what we learned in that process is visitors are willing to pay. I mean, COVID tests were like $60 150 dollars if it was rapid. And so we knew that they were willing to pay to still come. And so that we were able to change the conversation in that way. To show, hey, we're not gonna like lose our entire industry just because we charge them a little bit for, to care for the environment that they come here to enjoy. That was a while ago. Then what happened is, is we elected a, a governor that is an environmentalist. Um, and that's a really big piece of this is you can have all of the community alignment in the world advocating for it. You also need inside champions and Our governor is a climate champion, and he talked about climate change during his campaign, and then he got elected, and we immediately went to him and said, Hey, we've been working on this for like a number of years, and like, you should know about it because we think it's like, could be a really, it's aligned with what you want to do, and maybe, you know, maybe this was just a bucket you want to prioritize. Well, we have like a pathway that could maybe work. And at that point, we were still losing every year at the legislative session. 

We were still like, like Fighting and not getting anything we wanted, and the legislature needed to pass it. We have all these state representatives and senators that needed to be on board, and they weren't yet. And then the tragedy of the Maui wildfires happened a handful of years ago, and that changed the entire conversation because instead of talking about this as a future threat, it became something that happened and that we now need to ensure never happens again. And I think it added a tone of urgency around what are the solutions? How do we get money? It was also really, really expensive for our state. And imagine if we had annual funding going towards these solutions preventatively and also reactively. And that was, I would say, the last big moment where things just started moving. A lot quicker. It still took about 2 years from that point, but I think that that's short in policy world. But it speaks to the determination you need to do that kind of thing, which is not common. That's very, very cool, very cool. Something that I learned as an advocate that I wish I was told earlier is that the moment has passed, I was like, I'm done. I'm going to oceans. I'm going back to oceans. And then someone told me, this was the easy part. And I was like, What do you mean? And now we're focused on being an advocacy and accountability group as this gets implemented because it's the first in the nation. It's gonna set precedent for other states. And if this is not a gold standard blueprint, this could really impact how green fees are seen in the US. 

And so now we're advocating for effective implementation for making sure it gets to community, and we see a role for there to be almost like a, a watchdog group for how this gets spent, at least while it's stood up in the first year, and to tell the stories of the good things that it can do so that people understand the importance and how it can work in other areas. Yeah, that's amazing. It sounds like it ties right back into your work. It's also really cool that you had the foresight to say, OK, I need to, because I think before the show you talked about that you grew up in a place that was not a marine science and location and moved yourself to Hawaii. Was your family on board with that? Yeah, I mean, I've been talking about being a marine biologist since I was like 11. So I think that they, I think they knew. I think that when I entered my 30s, they kind of thought I was going to circle back. And now they're kind of like, wait, you're not circling back. But no, yeah, of course, they're really supportive. And I think a lot of my work is moving nationally in the next phase. And so I hope that I'll get to see them a little more. Yeah, it sounds like you are definitely increasing your influence and your working footprint. And you spoke at the first Women's Ocean Conservation Conference in Indonesia in the history ever. So how was that? And did you have a specific topic? And what other things were happening there? Yeah, that just happened actually this fall. I have to shout out Coral Catch is the organization that facilitated that conference and what they do is they empower Indonesian women in choral restoration, and they hosted. The convening of all of, they graduate small groups of women multiple times a year, only like 4 women a cohort, and so they brought them all together in this conference with other women in ocean conservation, and it was the first conference of its kind in Indonesia and I just want to Say I've spent a lot of time in ocean conferences as an environmental professional, and there was nothing like this one. 

It was not just about the ocean, it was about human relationships. It was automatically a safe space to talk about anything you needed to talk about. It was something I've needed for my phase in my life was we had presentations on what it means to be an ocean activist and be a mother, what it means to support other younger women in your spaces to come, to feel empowered, what it means to be a mentor as a woman. And I just, I gained so much from it, and it was a big lift and a little bit of a, an inconvenience for me to go over there. But I'm so happy that I did, and I think that people should know that groups like Coral Catch, their goal is to graduate 100 Indonesian women by 2030. And they are a small organization, and the more people who know about them and learn about them through shows like this, it's going to help them reach their goal. Yeah, that sounds really amazing. So how long were you there? What kind of stuff did you hear and do while you were there? Yeah, it was about 3 days, and what we focused on was their individual stories. So a lot of Indonesia focused issues. So there's specific ocean issues that are related to fishing, like glass fishing or dynamite fishing, or gender equity, like women's representation in the ocean conservation field. But because we had Global Voices too, we were also able to unite the presenters and the participants in the conference around. Issues that are facing coral reefs that are larger, like climate change and warming temperatures and ocean acidification. And we were able to really talk about what the future of coral reefs mean in a place where coral reefs are really healthy. Indonesia has like some of the most resilient coral reefs, and whenever anyone goes there, we had some people from the Caribbean, Florida, other parts of the Caribbean that have been really devastated coral wise in the last couple of years. You leave with so much hope because you know that there's corals that are going to survive this decade and the next decade, and they're right there in Indonesia. Yeah, that's really cool. And then so along those lines, you've also led the development of a coral restoration training for native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders. So you do so many awesome things about how this come about and what kind of impact has it had so far? Yeah, so I'm a consultant. He's a consultancy. And so when we worked with nonprofits, we helped them build their programs. And one of the amazing nonprofits that another one people should know about is Culliana Coral Restoration, which was founded by native Hawaiians in 2019. 

And their mission is to scale coral restoration, but also to build resilient coastal communities. And the moment that I Learned about their mission. I, I immediately wanted to support it. And the federal investment in climate in the US, there was the inflation Reduction Act that was passed. There was a huge influx of money going to restoration and climate solutions. And a bucket of that money also included going to underserved communities, and it allowed us as an organization to submit grants to help. Address a lot of the long-term equity issues in Hawaii around how native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders are able to access ocean conservation careers. And so we built this incubator that we run every summer. We're running one. We just finished it and we're running one next year where we bring in local native Hawaiians or Pacific Islanders who are local to the place, who are building their life there, who are not leaving. And we train them up in scuba certifications, which are so expensive and hard to make time for. We get them all the way up from open water to rescue dive. We teach them first aid, we get them really competent in ocean conditions. The ocean in Hawaii is unpredictable and can be intense, but we have amazing Communities of water people that know their place, know their backyard, and this is really just about empowering them and giving them the skills that they need. And then we also complement it with classroom trainings on what is coral restoration and what does choral restoration look like in Hawaii. Here are some executive directors of nonprofits that may be able to hire you after this course. 

Let's build some networking and relationship building. Let's learn about, let's bring in cultural. Practitioners to reconnect you with culture or to dive deeper into cultural learning. And something that is especially important about coral restoration in Hawaii is that in traditional Hawaiian knowledge, all life in the Kumullipo, the Hawaiian creation chant, all life began with the coral polyp. And so the work being done on corals here is so deeply interwoven with what it means. To be Hawaiian. And so, in making sure that those are the leaders that are making decisions about their backyard and about corals is our goal at Culliana Coral, and that starts with giving them the skills and the capacity to then be hirable by the growing field, right? We're only gonna be planting more corals, so we need to make sure that the people who know their place, their culture, and their backyard best are the ones doing it. Yeah, which, you know, you honestly cannot be said better. I think that's a real, really important thing to do, particularly in Hawaii. Hawaii has a lot of, you know, cultural history and I love the concept of like storytelling, you mentioned earlier, and there is no better place for you to use that theme than Hawaii. It's a really important part of the community there. So what kind of storytelling are you doing? What kind of stories do you share and how do you bring those to the community? Yeah, so I do have a lot of different storytelling, but we all try to stay under the, the modern media umbrella, so social media, short form videos. And I mentioned that we do some international and national work too. And so, on some of those global issues, I feel comfortable talking about them, teaching people the nuance of what the threat of deep sea mining is, or what offshore drilling can do to our coastlines in the US. But in Hawaii specifically, our storytelling work is about uplifting the voices of community that may not already have the video camera or the technical expertise to do it. And so locally, when we're working on projects that are serving Hawaii communities, we're behind the camera, we're Supporting them with interviews and with production and with amplification. And some of those have looked like we run an ocean advocacy Day called Pilina Canaloa each year, where we bring nonprofits down to the Capitol so that the experts that work on ocean issues can meet the lawmakers that may not know about the ocean issues. And there's a lot of community perspectives that need to be seen as a result. That event. And so we'll do community interviews in that way. But it's hard to get people to watch anything more than a few minutes these days. So we try to keep it short and we try to keep it jumpy and modern and also to make sure it's seen by the most amount of people possible so that we can have that mindset and perspective change that's gonna lay the platform for more progress. Yeah, which is really cool. I mean, it is neat. I mean, it is kind of the way it is. So you kind of have to meet people where they are, right? That's kind of the goal. 

And Like you say, you mentioned Hawaii is a big destination for tourism, for folks coming from all over the world, really, to that place. And I know, for example, like people will go to the Kilauea, they'll go to the volcano and they'll take a rock and leave and then find out, oh, that's, you're not allowed to do that, that's an illegal thing, and they'll send it back. They'll be like, hey, sorry, park service, sorry we took a rock here it is. And so that's created two problems, right? There's a rock being removed and then there's the process of having to deal with everyone sending back rocks, and it's like both of those things take up, you know, do harm because you're, you're taking time away from what rangers should be doing to be like, oh yeah, well, we can't put this rock back because we don't have any idea where it was. It's just a rock now, thank you. So there's always a challenge with getting vacationers to understand what's important to Hawaii. And how to respect and protect what's there. So, how do you, what tips do you have for people who are interested in going to Hawaii? And if they want them to stay respectful to the islands, the communities, the environment. What tips do you have for them? Yeah. Thank you so much for including this question in our conversation. Since COVID, Hawaii has really focused on building more responsible visitors, and that is what the goal is, right? We want people who are coming who don't take the rock at all or know that they shouldn't take the rock and maybe know why they shouldn't take the rock too. There's a few different like intervention points, right? You can get them when they land. There's videos now. 

On flights where you can, when you're on your TV screen on the back of your chair, you can learn about Hawaiian culture and learn about what it means to be a responsible visitor. There's signage in the airport that's educational, and it sounds like there, there also should be signage at those park entrances in the apps on social media, because at the end of the day, there's a small group of maybe knowingly irresponsible visitors, but for the most part, people just Don't know. And there really needs to be that collaborative education element. And, um, Hawaiian Council is an incredible example of a group that is focusing on this. So after visitors arrive, they handle a lot of messaging and marketing that is seen by visitors. And so to have things in the airport that say, you know, like, our fresh water is so sacred here and special, make sure you don't waste it. To have Signs around endangered Hawaiian monk seals that say, Hey, you're not allowed to touch and harm them. You, it's actually 50 ft. You got to stay 50 ft away, take pictures from a distance. These types of messages can get us a little closer to what our ultimate goal is here because no one wins in an extractive tourism economy. Nobody wins, and we have to build and inspire and invite them into to solutions if we want to help address this across Hawaii. Yeah, that's, man, these are great, these are great answers, obviously really, really thankful to have you on to talk about these kinds of things because honestly, it just, like you said, most people just don't even think about it. They're like, oh, it's a cool rock. Why would it be bad to take? What's, what's the harm in that? And so there is a level of advocacy that that I love that you're doing. It's really, really cool to see. And, you know, kind of segue into tune that we, we love asking our guests about memorable moments that they have in the field. It's a segment we call Field Notes. And we uh love if people send their funny, scary or awkward field stories to us, and we will put them on the air, which you can do at info@environmentalprofessionalsradio.com. But you have a lot of memorable stories and you mentioned one about running out of gas in a research expedition. Maybe we can start there. How did that happen? Oh my gosh, I was, OK, I was going on my first research expedition, when I was like 27. I was the youngest person on the expedition. And it was really exciting. It was people from all over the world. It was in Hawaii, but it was also people that live and work in Hawaii, so it was a combination. And it was a big research vessel, like a vessel that you're gonna stay on. We stayed there for, I think, 8 days. And there were small boats on the vessel that you could go out and do your research. There was like a number of research groups. 

We were on a research group that was focused on marine mammals, spinner dolphins in Hawaii, and how they vocal vocalize and communicate and Everyone was so excited the first day, and we were like, first survey, let's get out there, like, let's go. And we all got in, we all went on our survey. The other folks that stayed back in the vessel were doing other programming, with the other guests and the other researchers, and we're on our survey and we go, you know, super far out. We're just, we've never seen this part of the region we're in and we're like, OK, like, we're looking at the sun, we're like, All right, we've got like a little bit of time. We're thinking about time in the mind of light. And we just sit there and we're like, we don't have enough gas to get back. And we just, there's like 4 of us. There's only 4 of us, and the captain is like, this was a new thing, this format of the expedition was new. So I just want to say it was actually nobody's fault. It was just the fact that everyone was too excited. We didn't talk about it. And it was the first day of an expedition of a format that has never been tried before. And so we're going back and we're like, all right, like let's be efficient, let's not stop, let's keep going. We're just gonna push it like we have no other option. And because of the way we were with the islands, we knew we just wanted to get into this more protective area from the wind, and we made it to that area. But the vessel, the exploration, the large research vessel actually had to stop what they were doing and come to us, which is like not how this should work. And then you're like coming on board and you're just like, don't look at me like, uh, we're sorry, like. 

And also way more resources to move the big vessel than to move the small boat. And it just goes to show like, sometimes you think some people have it covered or that, oh, it's someone's for surely talking about that. And maybe just bring it up, maybe just bring it up. Yeah, that's, that is great advice for all walks of life, no matter what you're doing. If you, if you're not sure if this doesn't seem like, you know, bring it up, you know, bring it up. The lesson I've been trying even now to get better at is just speaking up more, not assuming somebody else has it, or I'll sound stupid if I don't ask, right? Like, hey, I don't know much about boats, but like, shouldn't have a different location of the needle on the, you know, is this a car? I don't know. Yeah, or like, how far are we going today? Like how about that? Like how far are we gonna go? Do we have enough gas for that? And like, Yeah, I just, we do think, oh, someone else has got it or I'll feel silly. I don't want to be rude. All these things are going through our head, but there's a nice, kind, respectful way to do it, and I think we just, we got to do it more. Oh gosh, yeah, I, I, I don't know why it reminded me. I think I've told this story on, on the show before, but it, do you know what you're doing is a question people are afraid to ask, but we had a guy when I was in grad school, absolutely gun a boat that was docked. And when you do that, the boat lifts off the ground, you know, out and got stuck in the mud and threw people out. It did not flip, but it threw everyone out of the boat. And you have told that on the show, that does not ring a bell. Yeah, that is, that's what it reminded me of, and it was like it was just like this person did not know what they were doing. And just floored it out of like which you shouldn't do anyway. There's no reason for you to do that ever. 

Even if you're trying to play a joke on someone, boats don't work that way and it ended up being a really nightmarish thing, which you can imagine, you know, it's a brand new boat too. It's just even worse. It was. And you cannot like mess with the ocean. Like you can just easily get yourself into a situation like that was like one of the most fun. Experiences and then all of a sudden it just went from like 180 to 0 and we're like, OK, wait, actually, are we gonna get back? Because the other part that I failed to mention is that we had a radio, but our radio was out of service without how far we were. So we knew we had to get into service to even tell the boat, Hey, we're out of gas and we're out. But we made it to that point, thank goodness. But imagine if we didn't have service, they would have never known. They would have been like, Where are they? You know, it could have been really bad really quickly. Well you're totally right. And it's like, um, Hawaii has a lot of these kinds of things. You talked about like the environment, right? Like the coast changes and shifts and where riptides are and all these things. Hawaii is a good example. Like Hawaii has a lot of riptides. It has beautiful beaches, but a lot of riptides, and it is really dangerous to just go out there and you'll see people do it and every year, that's what, you know, people end up getting pulled out the sea and it's a really terrible thing. Um, just, that's the ocean. It is a mystery and in lots of different ways. Yeah, thank goodness for lifeguards. Yeah, yeah, that's also yeah, a rule of thumb. If you don't, if you're not sure, look for a lifeguard. If there isn't one, maybe we don't go in, you know. Yeah, exactly, you are just listeners who are just getting started, just know that you should speak up. You have doubts or you have a lot of times too, I think I've run into a lot of people just starting their careers and a lot of people get into ocean science because they've spent a lot of time on boats. With their family or whatever. Sometimes not. Like, maybe in your case, you're nowhere near an ocean, but a lot of other times, especially myself being from Florida, people wanted to get into it because they did grow up on the water. And you might go out on a boat with me, who's been doing the job for 20 years, but that doesn't mean I know more about being on a boat or doing something than you do. Yeah. So, you know, go ahead and say something because it's better to say it than to have that moment where you're like, oh crap. 

Well, I wish I had said something. I wish I had said something. Yeah, yeah, like your age too though, like you said you were the youngest person there and so like there's like, yeah, exactly, it's almost like you don't wanna say the wrong thing or then go, oh well, of course we have enough gas, you know, but then I later when we were safe and back in our bunks and things like that, I was like. You know, actually, there's a lot of people from all around the world. Maybe they aren't familiar with like this ocean. Like maybe I'm one of the few people that actually lives and works here, like, I should have flagged this. Like, there was a little bit of element of like, I would do it again differently. And I think that since then, I always have. Yeah. And that's why we tell these skillet stories because we've all had these experiences where you're like, I I would do that different. Yeah, you know, whether it was in a truck on a boat or on your feet tramping through a wetlands, you know, like, oh, I probably would have brought a buddy or different shoes or whatever, you know, I love that segment. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So I know we're getting close to the end of time. I'd like to ask it's not the end of time, Nic. It's just that it's the end of time. I'm so sorry that the world will end. Uh, no, um, but like we love asking about our guests hobbies, right, because, you know, we're all people, we all get together, we all do different things. So you started a woman's book club as well. So what inspired you to do that? What kind of books do you read? I mean, why start a book? I feel like, and that was this year, so that was in 2025. Um, but I remember just feeling like, as I got older, like, oh, it's kind of, it's easy to go like months without seeing people that you really love just because life gets in the way, the more responsibilities that you have. And I was like, what if there was something that was standing? Like, I want to make standing things with friends. And With whether it's a craft night or a book club, you can have like multiple people at your house, right? And so I started this book club with my friends and we, you know, have like 6 or 7. 

We have like 10 girls in the group chat, but like 6 or 7 of them come to everyone and we choose a book to everyone gets to weigh in. It's rotating on people's houses, we theme it, you know, we're having a holiday one and It's been really enriching and awesome. And I think that all of the girls actually work in some level of environmentalism, but the book club isn't focused on that at all. Um, we don't want it to feel like work. And, you know, I just, we've read Kristen Hanna, who's an incredible author. We, we just read a thriller, we read Demon Copperfield. We'll read some more dense books, or we'll read lighter books. It just depends on People's travel and the vibe, and it's been really amazing to just have like a fun girls' night. Like every, it's like every month and a half. We didn't want to put pressure on it. We don't want people to feel like it's homework. So we're like, let's give some time to it. But I would encourage anyone listening, like, if that's something you're craving, like more community time or with your circles, like, book clubs are a great way to do it, and we got to get off these screens somehow. So might as well make it a book club. There really is. So we are at the end of time again, uh, I just have to say it that way from this point forward. Is there anything we didn't ask you about that you'd like to talk about before we let you go? You know, I think we touched on it, but I just, I know that there's probably listeners that work across the entire environmental field. And as someone who, like, spent the, my entire schooling focused on like the research and science side of the ocean, like, I do want to say, like, if you're called to the organizing to the community. building, to the advocacy, to the, even the creative, the media and the narrative work. Like that's a huge need from what I've seen in this movement. 

And we need people to fill those gaps. And so, I was never someone who was gonna do well at statistics, but I can make a graphic and I can enjoy myself doing it, and it's OK to be. Both. It's OK to be both the creative and a scientist. And if you've ever felt, like I told you guys, I felt like I was an activist from the beginning, like, keep cultivating that and don't forget that part of your identity because it's actually a really needed piece for the mission that we have ahead of us and especially for our lifetime. So, yeah, that's what I wanted to emphasize. That's a great, great way to end, and last but not least, if anyone does want to reach out, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Yeah, so you can connect with me on LinkedIn. My name's Carissa Cabrera. You can connect with me on social media. I create content under Carissa and Climate, and then you can email me. My email is carissa@fuswell.org, and we can talk about ways that our shared missions can come together to create a better future. Great. Thank you, Chris, I really enjoyed it. Thanks, guys. That's our show. Please be sure to check us out each and every Friday and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Bye. See you, everybody!