Wetland Restoration, Agricultural Water Quality, and Chesapeake Bay Conservation with Amy Jacobs

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we talk with Amy Jacobs, The Nature Conservancy, Chesapeake Bay Director, about Wetland Restoration, Agricultural Water Quality, and Chesapeake Bay Conservation.  Read her full bio below.

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Showtimes:
1:40 - Our favorite Airbnb experiences
6:10 - Interview with Amy Jacobs Starts!
12:39 - Jacobs Conservation Efforts

20:02 - Approaches to the Watershed
26:32 - Jacobs paddle boarding hobby

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Amy Jacobs at https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-jacobs-a945041a7/

Guest Bio:

Amy brings over 30 years of experience in conservation, dedicating her career to making a significant impact in the Chesapeake Bay and surrounding landscapes. She began her journey with The Nature Conservancy, assessing the condition of wetlands in the Nanticoke Watershed. Amy then took a position with the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control, where she built a Wetland Assessment and Monitoring Program. In 2012, she returned to The Nature Conservancy for the mission and to advance restoration in the Chesapeake Bay. 

Amy has a proven track record of leading large-scale conservation programs, securing funding, and fostering impactful partnerships. From working to restore over 3,500 acres of floodplains along the Pocomoke River to working with private agribusiness to establish the MidAtlantic 4R Nutrient Stewardship Association that has advanced over 150,000 acres of improved farmland management in the Chesapeake region, she is passionate about driving impact on the ground. Amy holds a bachelor’s degree in forestry and wildlife from Virginia Tech and a master’s degree in Environmental Forest Biology from the State University of New York and Syracuse University.

In her free time Amy enjoys traveling with her family, standup paddleboarding, yoga, raising funds for local food pantries, and being a groupie to her husband’s band.

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental enthusiasts, Nic and Laura. On today's episode, Laura and I talk about our Airbnb experiences and the Rock Legends cruise. We interview Amy Jacobs about wetland restoration, agricultural water quality, and Chesapeake Bay conservation. And finally, here are some quick facts about the Chesapeake Bay watershed. 

The Chesapeake Bay watershed is the largest estuary in the US covering 64,000 square miles across six wonderful states and the District of Columbia. Over 18 million people and 3600 species of plants and animals. on this 11,684-mile shoreline, woof, that's big, which generates roughly 500 million pounds of seafood annually. Well. Also, as we learn in our interview, there are 83,000 farms within the watershed. How about that? Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. Mm. you thought it was 38 and it was big, yeah, yeah, no, 83,000!

Hit that music!

This year, NAEP is hosting their annual conference and training symposium in Anchorage, Alaska from Monday, May 11th through Thursday, May 14th. The conference is a great opportunity to learn about new projects, share technical knowledge, network with other industry professionals, and engage with environmental leaders. Not a member yet? Join NAEP with special discount code EPR for $25 off your membership. Register now at www.NAEP.org.

Let's get to our segment!

I'm staying in Airbnb right now and it is amazing. You know, I thought maybe the listing isn't as cool as it says, has putt putt golf in the back and it's called the hammock house, and, you know, they have their own Instagram and everything, and I just thought, OK, I'm. I'm gonna, you know, set my expectations low, but holy crap, this place is amazing. And uh it has to be in my top something of Airbnb stays, but do you stay in Airbnbs? Uh, yeah, I definitely have. I feel like you're just telling me this on purpose to make me feel even more jealous and then put it in recording. So that's, yeah. So yeah, I have, I have, and we were just about to talk about like our worst experiences, and I think my favorite really was on Kona in Hawaii, Big Island, and then we got an Airbnb and it's like, don't talk, look at, think, speak, or even feel about the neighbors, and you're like, whoa, that is really intense. I don't know how they told me that after you booked it, yeah, yeah, like the rules were like do not engage, and I think they were the actual owners, but they claimed to be the neighbors. And I was like, OK, this is the same driveway, it's just two houses, and it was fine. It's just like, you know, it actually had the most beautiful shower, an outdoor shower with like, like peeper frogs were in it, and so like it should. Yeah, it was, that was beautiful. That was beautiful. I just thought that was really, a really funny rule. This is like, don't you dare, don't even look, don't even look that way, and that was pretty aggressive. I don't know if I have a worst experience. Honestly, I've been, I'm very. thorough in reviews. And I'm always, if there's anything, I don't look at anything that is less than like a 4.9. Because if it is, I'm like, that's too many bad stars. And then I'll look at the reviews for exactly what people say wrong. And I look for like, walking distance to stuff, single safety, like all these keywords in there. I've had a bad experience. But I've had so many good ones that it's hard for me to pinpoint. Point like what was my worst one? 

Yeah, I mean, I'm just honestly, I, I haven't really had any bad. That is the worst, and it's not even that bad. It's just still had like an awesome shower. Yeah, it had, it had the coolest shower I've ever seen. It was like in the mountain shower. It was super cool, but they had like, I don't know, like I'm also just like getting worse with names. So I remember there was one I got that was like hawk's nest, but I kept calling it Hawk's breath because I could not remember the second word, and I was just like, I'm all right, I'm going back to Hawk's breath. I'm like what? That sounds terrible. Why would you do that? So, yeah, it's just kind of a, that's actually where I am with Airbnbs. I'm afraid to book them because I don't wanna have to remember what the name of it is. That's a different problem to have. But yeah, I mean, why are you in Fort Lauderdale? The Rock Legends cruise is next week. Yeah, that's right, yeah. 

The other cool thing that I'm gonna be jealous about, so, can you talk about it? Of course I can talk about it. So, my other company, you know, I can let you guess how many companies I have, but this one company I have is a video social media company, and we do social media for the cruise. That's very cool. It is actually very cool. I know, it's like, cause I think you're underselling it. It's like you're gonna be on like a cruise and you're gonna be hanging out with. Actual rock stars, is that? Yes, so the headliner this year is, well, so the, the biggest headliners are Gene Simmons and Art Garfunkel. Yeah, OK, yeah, I've heard they're rock legends like that. Bret Michaels is one of my favorites that was on Rock of Love. I did get to get a hug with Bret Michaels on that one. I bet that actually doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great time. It's a charity cruise for the Native American Heritage Association. Oh yeah, it's perfect for me because it's not just a cruise for the sake of nothing profit, you know, it actually is really cruising for a good cause, so it feels like a really great client to have, you know. Yeah, and I'm like terrified to ask Sam or Annie if there's a, they know those names, so I'm not gonna do that, and I don't want, yeah, 0 for 2. Awesome. So yeah, yeah, that's, that's why they're, we come down a few days before to do our strategic planning in the warmth and also collaborate with our team, get reacquainted since we live in different parts of the country. And then, yeah, we're refreshed and ready to go for the cruise, and because it's nonstop, once we're on, it's nonstop filming and recording, going from this venue to the next and trying to capture all the great moments. OK, well, that kind of fits the theme of making me jealous. So, yeah, why don't we stop now while we're ahead and uh get to our interview. 

Welcome back to EPR!

Today we have Amy Jacobs with us. Amy is the Chesapeake Bay director at the Nature Conservancy. Amy, it's great to have you here. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Look forward to chatting. So in college, you studied forestry and wildlife, which is awesome. Uh, what inspired your conservation studies, and was there a moment where you just knew this was the direction you were gonna go? Yeah, I feel like I'm one of those lucky people that I kind of knew my direction in life from an early age. I, I had to refine it, of course, but, you know, I loved animals growing up. My mom always gives me a hard time that I had every pet known that we could possibly have around the house and. You know, and I lived in an area where I could spend a lot of time outdoors. I had brothers and sisters that we were out in the woods a lot, as well as my grandparents were farmers, so we spent a lot of time on farms and outside. And I think that just really drove my passion for the environment and being outside. I quickly realized I couldn't become a vet because I couldn't operate or, you know, fix animals that were ailing. So I found another direction and to stay in the environment. That's awesome. I feel you on that. My sisters are both vet techs, and I did a short period at a desk with them, and I felt like I was crying all the time. It takes; it's really tough skin to do that job. For sure. But yeah, you've been now with the Nature Conservancy for over a decade, which is amazing. So what originally brought you there? How did you land that job? Yeah, so when I, I came out of school, I bopped around to a couple of different organizations and government agencies. I worked for the state of Delaware for about 12 years. And while I love the work I was doing. 

I was drawn to the Nature Conservancy for the mission. And it's really fulfilling to wake up every day going to work, knowing exactly what I'm working for. And that's very clear. And I don't have to compromise, you know, like you typically do with an agency, depending on, you know, what the priority for the agency is. And so, I think it's very clear what we do. And, you know what, I'm contributing to that every day. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I do a lot of career coaching, and there's a couple of companies or foundations that people just covet those jobs, and the Nature Conservancy is one of them. So, I think the landscape has changed a little bit in the last 10 years, probably a little more competitive, but I'm sure it was very competitive back then too. So, what are your keys to success? How did you get that job? Great question. I think that I do think there's a piece of it of finding the right job for every individual. And I think once you find that right fit, you know, you can sell yourself as the right person for the job. And I think it's, I'm trying to think of an easy way to say that's a hard question. And I think it's knowing yourself well enough to know what drives your passion for work. And. And also how you work and being, you know, finding the right fit of an organization that can fulfill both of those. Right. That makes sense. So really, once you know that you're cut out for this work, and you feel that this is the right place for me, you've got to convince them that this is where I'm supposed to be. It sounds like. Right. Exactly. Right, right. And I think that's harder, that's easier to do, right? 

Like once you kind of know what your strengths are, and where your passion is going to lead you, it's a much easier sell, right? And I think those are the candidates that, that always stand out. Yeah, that makes sense. So in the role that you're in now, when you first started, are you still doing the same thing? Or how has your role changed over the years? Yeah, my roles changed quite a bit. So when I first came to the Nature Conservancy, I was hired as a watershed restoration specialist. So I had a focus kind of in one geography and really focused on wetland restoration and how to accelerate that. And then I think grew that position because I saw while we still focus on wetland restoration as a key component to restoring the Chesapeake Bay, we needed to also work in other areas. So, we expanded and think, thought about agriculture. Culture and where we can make an impact more broadly on the agricultural landscape, to think about, you know, the water quality benefits, we have to both reduce the source of the problem as well as, you know, adding those natural filters to filter things downstream. So I grew that. And then I just moved into the Chesapeake director role about a year ago, which kind of took me to the next step of overseeing our work across the whole watershed in the 6 states. Region, as well as kind of a broader portfolio of, of conservation strategies. Nice. And kind of like looking back to when you started, and you were confident that you were going to do this job, and it was the right fit for you. Did you see yourself sort of advancing into where you are now? Probably not, not specifically where I, if you would have asked me 10 years ago, where are you going to be in 10 years, I don't think I could have predicted exactly where I'm sitting now. But I do think another reason I was drawn to the Nature Conservancy is because it's a larger organization, there's a lot of opportunities for growth. And it is really up to the individual in a lot of cases of kind of creating your path forward, right? And do you want to grow your work geographically, or do you want to grow your work into a different conservation area, or even a different discipline, right? 

There’re people that go from conservation to philanthropy, or, you know, different types of the work. Yeah, which is great. And it's like really, it's great to have organizations that do have that, that mobility and that flexibility, and that's not always the case with conservation. Sometimes it's, you're working in very small pockets, and you are where you are. And so, it's great to hear that there are things like that. But you reminded me, like, so I'm, like I say, I'm a Virginia kid. I grew up near enough to the Chesapeake Bay for it to have a soft spot in my heart, and you mentioned, you know, shifting how you conserve, and I think that's really fascinating to me, and I never want to assume that people know why you'd focus on agriculture, but it's a, it's a very big deal. So maybe can you kind of talk us through like why agriculture plays such a huge role in our water quality and why that was such a big focus shift for you guys? Yeah, absolutely. So, if you think about some of our environmental challenges, even from a global perspective, our food system and how we grow food is a primary driver of a lot of our challenges, from our climate challenges, from water quality, from biodiversity. It's a big impact. And in the Chesapeake, it is a driver of the conditions within the Chesapeake Bay, both from how we produce food on the land. So, the agriculture that we have here is the largest source of nutrients which drive algal blooms within the bay. And when that algae dies, it sucks up the oxygen and then it Removes the habitat opportunity for the fish and plants and other species that are in the bay to utilize that habitat. So that's one of the drivers. It's also, I think, the greatest opportunity within the bay. So, we know that food systems. We need, you know, healthy food. 

We need ample food to be able to support people within the bay. We're a producer of food for our local populations as well as globally. We export food around the world that comes from the Chesapeake Bay. And the other great connector piece of food within the Chesapeake is we have food production on the land that's a critical component of the health of the bay, as well as we have food production from the bay itself. So, we have fisheries and striped bass and oysters, and they're part of the solution as well. Our oyster population is about 2%. Of what we had historically. So we have a big way to go to restoring that and thinking about how those are connected of if we have better food production on land that supports better food production in the water. Oh, yeah, I don't think people understand, you know, you talk about like, there's dead zones, like when there is no oxygen in the water, fish can't breathe, and it's such a strange thing to say, cause it's like, oh, it's just water. But yeah, but it's not, it's not just water, it never is that static, and it's such a great thing because that connection of land and sea, we'd love to separate them. It's almost like we can't help ourselves, but be like, well, that's there and that's there. How could they possibly be connected? And you, and then you go into a bay and you, you're in an area and you're like, oh, there's no fish here, period. Why? You know, it's such a fascinating thing. So I know I'm gushing a bit, but that's got to be challenging, right? Like, how do you, like, how do you actually navigate that shift because it's not just, you know, we can talk about it all day long, but we're not the ones that are going to be making that change. So how do you actually move that forward? Yeah, that's a great question. So we have about 83,000 farms in the Chesapeake Bay. So we know that wow. Oh my gosh. Did you say 3000? Yeah, and you know that, right, they're the ones that are making,000 cows. We know that, you know, the farmers are the ones that are making the decisions day in and day out on how they're growing the food. And we also know that they're small businesses. That's how they operate. So the way the Nature Conservancy and how we're approaching that is, one, we know we can't work farmer to farmer to farmer to make a difference. 

And honestly, most farmers aren't going to come looking to the Nature Conservancy for how to farm, right? So we work through their trusted advisors. So farmers have a network of advisors that they rely on for information for how to best improve the management of their lands and increase their profitability. And we have a network of advisers we work with, and we are working to figure out, you know, what are the shifts that could be made with management that both keep the farmer sustainable so that they're profitable and making a good living and having environmental benefits. And then how we tie that to the needed incentives or other structures that are needed to support that transition. So we work with the private advisors, we work with supply chain companies to try to figure out how we get those incentives flowing back to farmers to support a transition to more regenerative agriculture. I'm trying to think of, like, you know, approaching farmers too and be like, OK, you know, the bay needs your, needs you to do this, and they're going to say, that’s great, but I need to make money, right? That's, that's what I have to do. So, is that do you have to frame that all conversations as profit driven? I mean, I'm guessing it might vary by farmer, but is it primarily the motivating factor for change? It's certainly the driving factor. Now, of course, people are making decisions, you know, for many reasons for what they want to do on their specific farm. But they are a business, right? So they need to make that business sustainable and thinking about how we incorporate conservation and how we get conservation valued as part of the decision-making process. So, for example, you could think about if a farmer understands the land that they're farming and parts of it are not profitable. So, they're planning. You know, a typical corn, soybean rotation. And there could be parts of that field where they're planning it, but then when they get their yield and harvest that When they look at the figures that they're not making money on, say, you know, a small portion of that field. So what should be happening from our perspective in the larger world is that we should be paying for what they could be producing from an environmental benefit on that acre because we want every acre to be profitable. And what we feel and what we're pushing for is that making every acre profitable doesn't mean growing corn on every acre, right? It's like, how can we also make it profitable that they're producing environmental outcomes? So, if they transition part of that to. 

Wetland or to a buffer or, you know, warm season grasses or pollinator habitat, that they should be rewarded for the environmental outcomes that they're producing for doing that as a society. Yeah, which makes a ton of sense, and I'm sure that that helps a ton. And it's one of those things that like, you’re not just working in the bay, right? You're working multiple states, multiple, an entire watershed, like the Chesapeake Bay watershed is humongous, and so, do you have to take different things in different ways based on Where you are in the watershed, or is the approach pretty much the same all the way across? I'd say at a high level, you know, our approach is very similar, but how that touches down on the ground is different because farming's different. So farmers in central Pennsylvania are very different from farmers on the eastern shore of Maryland, right? So, the size of the farm. The culture of the farming, you know, the topography of the lands, like, all those factors in how farmers are making decisions, and we have to be adaptable and, and supporting that. So, are there like easy things for them, for farmers to implement, like someone's listening right now is like, oh, what, what could I do just to get this process started, but there are simple things that you guys work with them on. Well, one of our big focuses right now is around nutrient use efficiency, so if you think about the fertilizer farmers are using and the nitrogen that's in that, that's one of the big drivers to algae blooms in the downstream in the bay. And if we focus on improving that efficiency of those nutrients so that more of those nutrients are going in to grow food and grow the crops, that leaves less behind that could potentially be lost in the next rainstorm or trickling down to groundwater and going. Out into the rivers and eventually the bay. So, we're working with farmers on how to improve that. And we are trying several different ways. One is offering an outcome-based incentive. So we say, if you can improve your efficiency. 

You determine what best works for your farm, and what you can change to make that efficiency higher, and then we'll reward you for doing that. Another way that we're doing it is using some new technologies. So we're working with partners on integrating technology that images. crops. And so if you plant a multi-species cover crop, which is like a mix of clovers and grasses and different species, this technology, when you're terminating your cover crop, it images it and documents the species composition and the biomass of that cover crop. And from that we can take how much nutrients are being provided to your next corn crop. And so, we're working with farmers and our agribusiness partners to be able to implement this new technology which would allow farmers to understand how much nitrogen is coming from their cover crop, and then we can, they can reduce their fertilizer rate, which saves them money and makes them more efficient. That's very cool, yeah. So we do have a segment we call Field Notes, and it's like a part of the show where we ask our talk to our guests about memorable moments doing their work. It's something where we ask our listeners to send us their scary, funny, or awkward field stories to show us future episodes, and on a future episode. And you mentioned that during your black bear research in college, which, hey, that sounds cool, there might be an interesting loss of a professor, perhaps. What happened there? What's the story behind that? Hm. So those aren't connected, but I can give you some insights on the both of them or one of them. So, the black bear, I did, I was fortunate to work with a professor in my undergrad. I went to Virginia Tech. And yay. And I did black bear research. And, and when I was first recruited to help with the project, I was so excited, you know, and you think like, oh, they're, they're recognizing that I'm a good student and I'm doing a good job, and I was added to the Black Bear crew, and part of the work was going out in the wintertime around now. And monitoring the black bears and their reproduction in Shenandoah National Park. And the way you do that is, the female black bears, the sows have had their babies, but they're denned up right in their dens. So, we would have radio collars on the mother bears. 

So we would know where they were, and we would track them down and know they were in this den. And then we had to tranquilize the mother bear and then be able to go in and pull out the babies so we could measure them and evaluate how they were doing and their health of the babies, the reproduction. So I learned very quickly the first time we went out, that somebody had to crawl into the den to pull the babies out. And it just so happened I was the smallest person on the crew. Of course, I quickly learned that I was recruited by my size, not necessarily my skill, um. So I was the one that would have to crawl into the den once they tranquilize the mother. And they would literally like many times hold me by my ankles because I had to crawl and then like grab the little baby bear and then they would pull me out. And I would pull it out. So it was a great experience. It was fun. God, you got to hug baby bears. I did. They were very cute. Oh my gosh. That's so wild. I mean, like, there has to be times you're like, really, guys, that's. OK, I, I've pulled out a lot of bears. Somebody else has got to get one of these, you know. That's very funny. And they're just like, oh, I'm sorry, you're just so, you know, you're the perfect size. I want to know what that feels like. Are they like heavy and dense and like super fuzzy? Yeah, they're cuddly little. Yeah, they're kind of as you would think, but they do have really sharp claws. I will say that you do have to watch out for that. Yeah, but they are very cute and cuddly. The, um, yeah, it is, I think people really should go look up bear claw size. I don't think people understand how big they are, especially like brown bears. They're the size of your fingers. Just think about that. It's just that's, that's big claws. Even the babies have claws. Yeah, so. I can imagine. I was complaining about briars the other day. I need to stop doing that. Um, yeah, it could be bear claws. So, um, no, thank you for sharing that. We always love hearing those kinds of stories, but we, we also love taking time to get to know what our guests do outside of work, and it's kind of one of our ways we love to connect with people. So, you are a paddle boarder, which I need some tips on, and yoga. 

There's a claim that you can do a headstand on a paddle board, and I just, uh, Come on, really? Can you really do that? Yeah, I can, I can. And so, I switched. I was a big kayaker for many years. And then I switched to, I didn't completely switch, but I added paddleboarding, I would say to, to what I do. And I love it because you get such a different perspective on the water. Right? So, because when you think about, you're in a kayak, you're down low, you come up to some marshes or grasses, you know, you see in, but you don't see the whole landscape. And when you're on a paddle board, you're standing up and you, it's just such a broader view of the area you're in. And there's so many beautiful places in the Chesapeake to go and experience that it's quite amazing. Yeah, and then, yeah, the headstands, it's just, it's just kind of fun and cool. It is, it really is. I'm very jealous. I, uh, yeah, I can't even imagine. I've seen people like take them out in surf, and I'm like, I don't know how anybody does that, but that is a, that's, that's a challenge. I feel like when I'm on a paddle board, I am frozen, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of my toes fall asleep and then I'm like, OK, if I move a little, I'm going down. OK. Yeah, because a kayak, I got, it makes total sense to me, and, and like a paddle board really is just like when I'm done, it's like my legs can't move. That's really it, because I use all my small muscles, you know, and it's like, when do I, when have I ever used these before? So I just need to get out there, really and you get to go right from your house because it looks like you're on the water right now. Yeah, we are, we're on a river that flows kind of downstream into the bay. And I do, I do get out. I love going out early mornings.

It's the best time. Yeah. That is very cool. So OK, yeah, mission accomplished. I am now very jealous. That is, uh, that is our mission every day. You should try it. You know, the worst thing that happens is you fall in the water, right? Yeah, that's true. That is true. And you are kind of prepared for that anyway. That's right. I grew up in Florida, so the worst things that happen, you fall in the water and then you get eaten by. OK, yeah, good point. Good point. That's too. Uh, well, we are running out of time. This has been fun. Is there anything else you want to talk about before we let you go? Yeah, I really enjoyed talking with you all. This is great. I love what I do. And I hope if anything, I can inspire people to just keep pursuing opportunities to work with what their passion is. I think it makes for. a great life. And I'm giving back to the world as best as I can and enjoying it along the way. Awesome. Those are great words of advice. And then where can people get in touch with you if they'd like to chat some more? I'm on LinkedIn. I'd be more than happy to chat with anyone. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. This has been a lot of fun. And thank you for helping me make Nic jealous. Hey now. Thank you both. That's our show. Thank you, Amy, for joining us today. 

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