Head Inside Mental Health
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and behavioral health expert hosts #Head-Inside Mental Health featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care.
Head Inside Mental Health
Eternal Strength with Dr. Weston Robinson
What if we approached mental illness not with the question "what's wrong with you?" but with "what's happened to you?" instead? Dr. Weston Robinson challenges everything we think we know about psychiatric treatment in this paradigm-shifting conversation offering that people who may be sick are not broken.
His work stands in stark contrast to traditional models that over-pathologize and over-medicate, instead offering a humanistic vision that sees each person as whole and worthy. This perspective fuels his compassionate approach at Eternal Strength, his intensive outpatient program for adolescents and young adults, where the guiding principle is simple yet profound: "You're not broken."
Perhaps most powerful is his wife's insight that "the majority of the problems in the world would be solved if we could increase and sustain authentic empathy." In a field increasingly dominated by corporate interests and diagnostic labels, Dr. Robinson's message serves as a vital reminder that at its heart, mental health care should be about humans helping humans.
Welcome once again to Head Side Mental Health, featuring conversations about mental health and substance use treatment with experts, advocates and professionals from across the country sharing their thoughts and insights on the world of behavioral health care. Broadcasting with WPBM 1037, the Voice of Asheville independent commercial free radio. I'm Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant, behavioral health expert, and with me today is a man near and dear to my heart is Dr Weston Robinson. Wes is president and founder of Eternal Strength, an intensive outpatient program for adolescents years 12 to 17, and young adults 18 to 25. Also the executive director of Cosmic Lance 501c3 nonprofit, ensuring that everyone crossing their path in need has access to quality medical therapeutics, workman-guarded assistance. Wes is a critical and anti-authoritarian psychologist whose groundbreaking work pushes the boundaries of the youth board mental health care.
Speaker 1:Phd in consciousness and society from the University of West Georgia. Dr Robbins research fans from systems theory, heavily influenced by Gregory and Nora Bateson, as well as the philosophical frameworks of schizophrenia, capitalism and schizophrenia. His work is deeply rooted in the anti-psychiatry movement, challenging potential systems and offering humanistic, person-centered evidence. Dr Robbins pioneers a revolutionary approach to youth and the care that integrates radical youth work with systemic therapeutic practices. This book, published by Rutledge Psychology, expands on these ideas and he continues to teach at both the University of West Georgia and the University of West Georgia and the University of New York, georgia, where he develops the needs curriculum for adequate youth work. A collaborator with organizations like Fund Psychology, dr Robbins brings a socially conscious, critical perspective to his academic and practical work, striving to create inclusive, ethical and transformative for deconstructing present structures, structures in mental health care, fostering violence-aided youth. You are Dr Wes Robbins. I know you as Wes, dear friend, mr Wes, dr Wes, welcome to Chimster, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Todd, thank you so much. It's an honor and a pleasure. And was my bio too long? I feel like I need to.
Speaker 1:The only rule I have for the bio is that it fits on one page, and I got it at like 16 fonts so I can read it. Okay, it fits to one page. We're golden, like. You hit it right on the mark. So not at all too long for any of the intros that I do. But I tell you I could say a ton more and um, though, we approach things.
Speaker 1:You know your life you lead and the ways that are, we follow the different paths, but you know the more that I get, the more that you speak and, of course, as I read your bio when I was reading it before, even now, I'm like we have so much in common, so it's just like I just want to unravel this terrible, terrible thing that we've done in the healthcare with you know, and it's it's housed in this concept like treating people like there's this other in the room, in the room training. No, you're not. You're helping that person have access to what they already possess. It's theirs, which is the concept that I love about eternal strength. You're not broke. You're not broke, and you know there's a lot of this journey. But what is it that you're talking about? First of all, what's the title of your book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the title of my book is the Hand of Addiction, the Spaces in Between An Autoethnographic and Transcontextual Becoming. How about just the hand of addiction? If you look up, Dr West, the hand of addiction, you'll find it. And then all the other fancy stuff is in the book.
Speaker 1:Well, I hate that I haven't read your book, but I will probably go to seek it out and, you know, once I get it, I'll read it. But, like, what is it that brought you to the place when you thought, okay, is the? Is the? Is what I need to pursue and I this is the way that I can impact this system? Like what? What did that path look like? What set you on it? What is it? What is the path up to now look like?
Speaker 2:yeah, great question, todd. I was 20 real quick. So I was 20 from the time. I was like 16 to 27. I worked in CD shops, record stores, and I went at about I barely got my bachelor's Georgia state. I went through some stuff when I was, you know, younger addiction, substance abuse, depression but barely got out of Georgia state when my bachelor's was like a 2.4. And then I was like working at the cd shop making eight bucks an hour. My mom's got her master's in behavioral analysis, my grandmother has her edd in psychology.
Speaker 2:I come from lineage and I barely finished my bachelor's in psych after changing my major five times. I was like fuck, psychology, my family did that. I don't want to do that, I'm gonna do business, journalism, sociology, anthropology. And then finally I landed back on psych, was like fine, get out. But then I started to be like, all right, man, I'm making eight bucks an hour. There's not a lot with a bachelor's in psychology. I mean, there's a couple gigs making 32 grand a year, but it's not awesome.
Speaker 2:All my friends started going to law school and so I started kind of looking and I was like, man, maybe I'll go to law school. And then I was like what am I talking about? I don't want to go to law school. And then I started to look at a master's in counseling Went did. The master's in counseling Was awesome, did it at Argosy University and for about five or six years I worked for that company, vive, which is now called Team Wonder Phenomenal phenomenal organization Dave Hurst Going to be a guest on the show soon Is he really?
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, even though he was my first boss, I feel like he was the first human being that really showed me what radical youth work and mentoring really was. He was my mentor, bro. Yes, he was my boss and I was a therapeutic mentor in Georgia and he had this big but every time we talked he saw my heart, he encouraged me like all crime and he was awesome. And then Willow um was my, my clinical director and she was out in California and she's co-owner and she's phenomenal. And so I do this work with them for six years and they helped me grow from a therapeutic mentor where I just got out of Peachford doing my internship. I got my master's and now I'm going to. Those are the bricks right there. But, dude, I'm flying to Florida and meeting with a 10 year old kid to have some mentor sessions. I'm driving Alabama. I'm doing this for six years, I've become a parent coach, I'm growing in all these ways.
Speaker 2:And then you ask the question about the PhD. I'm at this place in my life and I remember it vividly, dude, I was driving on the highway going down to see my therapist at the time and she was awesome. And I got a call from our admissions person and she was like Wes, I got another family for you. I think you're going to need to be the parent coach. And then we're going to set up. The mentor will be this. And, dude, as she's telling me, I oh, that's what I wanted to name I had already started the PhD. So I I started it in 2014. And I thought, like the genius I am, I'm going to keep my salaried, full-time position as a therapeutic mentor, parent coach and team lead of Atlanta and start a small little PhD program and just rock that on the side. I'm just going to rock PhD on the side, dude.
Speaker 2:First semester I was like, oh good God, there's no way I can keep up with the rigor, the reading, the assignments. So I get that call. That day I've been in the program and I drive down to therapy, talk to my therapist, and then I get in the car with Willow and I just called her in tears and I was like Willow, I think I have to leave. I think I got to keep going with the PhD. I love you, I love Dave, I love everything I've built here. We still talk all the time, dude.
Speaker 2:They supported me, but it was a very scary moment. It was. You know, we just had Story. Our first daughter just found that she was special needs. We'd had her for about a year, but then my for me I know this is a long-rounded answer One was my mom had her master's in behavioral analysis, my grandmother had her EDD.
Speaker 2:How bad would it be for me to carry the torch and get my PhD? That was one variable, but not enough to make me go do it. You know, like that was one cool factor factor. Another was can I go do a PhD that evolves my understanding of the human psyche and psychology and really pushes me beyond how I currently look at it as a clinician? And I started to look at all the different phds in clinical and counseling psych. I applied to a bunch, but when I found west georgia man, that was like it was a phd in consciousness and society and it focused on what a cool program right, and it's been around since the 70s humanistic um experiential. It focused on human, critical and transpersonal psychologies. So I went, I sat in a class, it was beautiful.
Speaker 2:I met Tobin Hart. He was a transpersonal psychologist and had written several books. The staff was amazing. It wasn't K-CREP accredited and I would not be able to become a licensed psychologist and therefore administer assessments or do forensics work, whatever pathway that you know is. And so I had to do a lot of soul searching. Man, why do I even want a PhD? What am I going to do with it? What is the purpose of it? And it was really to feed my soul, to grow my understanding of myself and ultimately, to be able to teach. And so all of those things have happened and I can't speak enough praise about that program and my two mentors in the program, dr Hans Scott-Meyer and Dr Kathy Scott-Meyer, are both the researchers that have done the most research work on radical youth work, and so they've had this, like you know, and I'm doing practice. So it's been this beautiful journey now well, it's almost like you know.
Speaker 1:It kind of reminded me of that scene with the magrids where, you know, mia's already kind of come out and he sits down and binge and she said he says something about the choice in his way. He's like she's like you, you made the torch and it's like you're carrying this torch. You're like, well, do I want to pick up this torch? No, no, no, you don't understand. So why don't you go ahead and get the torch? Yes, figure out why you're carrying this torch. Very well said, dude, and I just love that there's this family lineage of yours of exploring, you know, radical understandings of human behavior. We spent the first half hour before our interview just citing our favorite philosophers and folks Remy, Khalil Gibran.
Speaker 1:Right, edgar Tolle, I'm like, oh yeah, we're going to get along fine, and you know this is a question I'd love to hear your response to. I have my own ideas. Why do you think that we don't see as much of what I would call this kind of deep spiritual involvement, which is also about knowing, understanding, you know, living more this truth and all those pieces? Why isn't that more? Why isn't there more of that?
Speaker 2:What's the problem, man? That's a phenomenal question. I mean I could speculate at best. I think I have some good conceptualizations and anecdotal case studies over the years of watching the mental health industry over the last 15, 20 years. An easy read, kind of like a simplified let's just do a quick and dirty. Is greed, big business conglomerates out for scaling and looking at mental health treatment centers primarily as business organizations to be scaled, with little to no evaluation of how.
Speaker 2:This is a completely different service. You know, and so I. But I would dare say go on further. And this isn't, you know, who am I to judge anybody, man? Cause I'm doing my own work. But I know spiritual work on yourself is some of the hardest work, at least for me to do. So it's like man, anything sounds easier than that, yeah, and and everything else is like bells and whistles. So I think you know it's easy to be in the mental health treatment field and spend the majority of your time spinning your wheels and speaking psychobabble and not really doing the work.
Speaker 2:And the work the best clinicians I've ever seen continue to bust ass on themselves, to bust ass on themselves. They know that. They understand at a depth level that there is no difference between them and their clients and that the only difference is are you taking care of your mental health or are you not? And so, but there's not. This like, oh, I'm sane and these are my schizophrenic patients. It's like, no, I could be schizophrenic. If the right genetic combination and stressors and environmental stressors happened in my life, I could be any of these people. These are my brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1:The analogy for me is like driving on the road where there's a steep shoulder. It's like the difference between you being level-rode and slowing home and everything's fine and disaster is like a few inches. Yes, you know what I mean. It's like a few and you ride, we don't even think about it anymore. We ride on that one all the time. It's like but by the grace of God, go. I Absolutely. I think that you and I both, I hadn't fallen in, but I peered over the edge and I'm grateful to say that I hadn't fallen in. Yeah, but boy I tell you, I put my toes up the whole foot a couple at times, and it gave me profound compassion for people who've suffered from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia, thought disorder, all these various maladies that come out in different ways as a person who's in different trauma, and then they've got to go through life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And, todd, like you talked man, I was talking to my wife once and she said a profound statement and I was going deep dude about the problems of the world and geopolitical and economic and government Rush Limbaugh dude, or whatever you know. And I don't have any political affiliations, I am like a human and I support other humans. But I was on my tirade going off and I asked my wife, I said what do you think? What do you think? And finally she got real quiet and she said I think the majority of the problems in the world would be solved if we could increase and sustain authentic empathy. And I was like, oh, I love you and I'm kind of disgusted with my, but like it is, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not crazy simple. It is in certain ways, but it's really just reminding yourself that any of these people that you're serving is you in another life and that you're not living your life alone. None of us are like, we're even the thoughts we're thinking. It's a collective consciousness and you get more into spiritual study and they start to drop bombs on you Like there is nobody else. You're the only person and it's all a mirror for you and your growth and you're like those types of things, I think, bring us together more.
Speaker 2:And what creates the majority of our suffering, especially in the mental health field, is seeing somebody as the other and seeing them as broken or as damaged or as as not a human soul. That has been through things and had. Every human soul has a biochemical, genetic makeup, a psychology, an emotional and social arena, the biopsychosocial, spiritual kind of Venn diagram. And anytime you don't look at that holistically you're really doing a disservice to that human being and and their journey. And I love the work in particular of dr lucy johnstone. She's out of the uk, she has pioneered the movement of the mental health field to stop asking the question what is wrong with you and to start asking what has happened to you, what have you been through?
Speaker 2:Right and just that trauma, informed, empathic, collaborative journey and joining therapeutically with a client and and working through things is, in my head, flipping the world of psychology on its head in a good way. Flipping the world of psychology on its head in a good way because for far too long it has been an abusive system that overly pathologizes, overly medicates and really um places a victimhood mentality on anybody that is struggling with a mental health disorder. Psychology will go. You got this. You know it'll tell a 17 year old kid in will go. You got this. You know it'll tell a 17-year-old kid in a psych hospital you got bipolar and you're always going to have it.
Speaker 1:Don't pull a hell doll and put them on the street.
Speaker 2:And never talk to the kid about what bipolar even is, how the APA started, how the DSM got formed the idea that bipolar is just us trying to understand human emotions but that 17-year-old kid will go that's my identity. Now I'm broken, I'm bipolar, I'm something. And you got to go work with that 17-year-old kid and help him understand. Dude, so is Jim Carey, and so what? The plethora of all these people that you love? Show me your musicians and artists and YouTube streamers and I will show you diagnoses.
Speaker 2:I will show you mental health challenges, but I'll also show you beautiful human beings that learned enough about themselves to care for themselves and they felt empowered, regardless of whether they had ADD, bipolar, borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, thought disorder, ocd, intrusive thoughts. I'm done with the pathologization shutting down people and making them feel like they got a demon inside them that they have to rid. I'm all for Jungian integration. Like, every part of you that you struggle with is still a party, right, every part of you that you struggle with is still a party. We got to go sit with it, look at it, understand it and integrate it into your evolutionary journey of who you're becoming, but you don't need to cut off parts of yourself well, you probably know this.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's why young separated from freud, freud was like you know, we can make a bunch of money because we're now controlling people and the other one's like I'm not about that, I'll never do that.
Speaker 2:Like a cool dude and he's like what are you talking about, bro? It's not sketched. No man, that's wrong. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I think we're seeing that world Half the world followed Freud and half the world followed Jung and we've got them competing with one another and, unfortunately, I think that you get a lot more of the Jung that you can pay for. Yeah, you get a lot more of the Freud, college situation, education and sports services, identifying with the illness and all these other things.
Speaker 1:And then you're dealing with community mental health. Yeah, and I was talking about this to somebody the other day um, for somebody who's on show chose melvin covered by mental health, and when it comes to the community mental health side, part of it is some of the things we're talking about, but part of the reason they don't do any better is because they haven't seen anything different. They don't go outside of their yard. The only thing they've ever seen is stuff like what they did, and they keep perpetuating this model.
Speaker 1:And I keep wondering you know your answer to this question and what your thoughts are, because I know you've been on this journey and you've fight and everything else what is it that causes it? Shit? What is this gonna? Hey, guys over here, like there's a different way and yeah, still work, actually, just do these things and we could stop cycling these people through the system. And you spend a lot of time basically reworking, doing you keep redoing forward instead of just doing job. What is it you think is going to make that system shift? I mean, you stood in the halls of Petrie, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the biggest hospital systems there in Atlanta and Georgia system and they are maxed and hospital systems there in Atlanta and Georgia system and they are matched and getting a whole social worker card and we don't know who your psychiatrist is, because it's like you've been three in the last two days.
Speaker 2:The one part of me, todd, the one part of me that is let me put it to you like that we were talking earlier on the show about the first half of your life. Second half of your life ego versus humility, ego versus God led my ego, bro, will be like eternal strength, man, you know what I mean. Or anything like it's going to happen today, bro. We need to go through a Molotov cocktail graffiti style at all the big business and it's like no, no Sword, go right. But that rage against the machine, as much as I love it and as much as I embody it, I know that harms more than helps. I know that deconstructs without rebuilding. I know it's impulsive, without any real game plan of how to care for these families and move forward. So I started to focus my time more on what is good work look like, rather than changing the field, which is ultimately a goal I would like to have. The reason I opened eternal strength was because I'm just going to do it like this man. I'm just going to go do it. I'm like like I'm not gonna sit here and just critique, critique, critique and not do anything. Let's do something our own way and the way I did. It had to do a lot with humanistic, relational workplace environments where everybody was collectively caring for one another.
Speaker 2:Um, but I, I believe I'll just say this one I think now, instead of it needing to be this like giant Molotov cocktail, I am more curious about how many seeds can be planted and how much watering and growth can happen in a satellite way. And what I mean by that is can methodologies and approaches in how we work be brought into all of those systems and can those individuals be invigorated and trained in new and unique, creative ways in these community-based organizations or government-funded organizations? That immediately the whole staff goes? That was awesome. This helps us.
Speaker 2:Next, monday through Friday, I tell all the brave clinicians and I'll get emotional, but I tell all the brave clinicians that go into the Peachfords, the Ridgeviews, lakeviews, the psychiatric your light is needed in there, you are needed in that space. So even when I did my internship at Peachford for 10 months and it was hell and they told me to stop talking to the kids and I was too friendly and the kids saw me like a friend, and then I had to have one of my professors come in and advocate and be like he's person, centered and Rogerian, what the hell are you talking about?
Speaker 2:It's not compassion man, you know that but those environments come to life when there's at least a handful of people in there that are passionate about what they do. It's the very rarely do those environments take care of the people that work for them, so they get burnt out, man, like crazy, and then it just repeats and repeats. So I don't. I, I'm a firm believer that many systems are breaking down right now and, as difficult as it is, that shift is occurring. But even when I I'll get too invested in it, bro, is what it really is. I'll get too much like. We got to change it and it's my timeline and then I have to go back and go.
Speaker 2:That's my ego. Like the Midwest system has to change by January 2026. Right, we need to set a goal, right, yeah, and then I go, dude, that's kind of silly. Let me do good work, do it consistently, stay true to who I am and continue to be a beacon of light for others. And hopefully it becomes less about the Dr West show and more about inspiring others. And if there were a hundred clinicians out there, that went, dude. I watched the interview that you and Todd did and that inspired me and motivated me to go do my counseling work in this organization in a different way.
Speaker 1:Rock and roll man, beauty, yes you know, his answer was this was the same. I think you'll love this term. I have a friend of mine. A big course in miracles guy introduced me to the word. Come on, we'll talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1:Um, they call it metaphysical ghosting. He said you know, you do something cool and you celebrate it. You're like, wow, that was cool and that would be a great job too. Let me be more awesome. I mean, how could I be more awesome? And that's the ego that starts creeping in and it's like, whatever this thing is, it turns it into this cloak and it's like, hey, you can just wear this, and he calls it metaphysical ghosting. It's like, hey, we can just wear this, and he calls it metaphysical ghosting. It's like it'll ghost its way right back into your life if you are not 100% conscious. And you know, the thing that occurs to me as we talk is it's a bit of a positive psychologist spin and you see it in lots of places. But it's like, if you want to change things, go towards something, not away from something, as opposed to like let's change what's bad. It's like, you know, let's just do what's good.
Speaker 2:That's it, yeah, and I do think that will be the catalyst. If enough organizations start to do good work in the way, integrity and ethics, the unethical organizations will not be able to survive. But if the majority of the organizations are doing, you know, just kind of like subpar work, then that system will kind of. But if some really stellar places step up and take the level of care for their clients, for the families they're serving, for the staff that they build, and they care more about the health and the wholeness of the organization than they do about scaling and revenue and marketing, then I think you'll feel it, families will feel it when they walk in.
Speaker 1:You, that's you bring up an interesting point. I think it'd be cool to hear you, to hear you, um, talk about this a little bit. You've gone through a bit of a journey, right, um, the journey that you've taken, because, sure, you want to do good work and you want to get out there and you want to serve people and you want to do all those things right, but you also have to make a living. You also have to make a dollar, you know what I mean. Like, you got to pay the rent, you got to keep the lights on. You can do all the things. It's not that, it's not that you know you can't.
Speaker 1:You got to have sound business practices as well, yep, and you made a decision not that long ago. You were running a lot of outpatient services that were private practice and doing therapy with people and doing everything else, but you had to do the private pay-in and all that kind of jazz. And then, all of a sudden, you're like look, I want to be, but you also wanted to serve people who couldn't afford things, which is why you have cosmic lamb. But you were scholarshiping and you know it starts to. You get these two forces and they start competing with one another. You know making, making enough money and also trying to serve people who show up at your door who can't afford services.
Speaker 1:So you decided to open an IOP and you decided to work within a billing company and get insurance involved and do all those things which you know for many of us is like, oh it's evil, don't go down that path. But you decided to go down it and I think that the question I have is and something that you I feel like you've been conscious of is like okay, I've seen these models be terrible and I've seen insurance companies dictate care to people and I don't want to turn into that and I want to keep my heart and soul of what it is I'm doing and I want to do. You know innovative work and everything else, but I also need to put it in this structure so that people can use their insurance and more people can afford you know coming and receiving the services that we offer and we're not taking it on the chin every time through our nonprofit and everything else. Tell me a little bit about that, that arc for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I definitely if you would have caught me early on, Todd. I was really broke, bro, like like to the point where I was like no business, like I don't even care, bro. Like before we had Cosmic Lamb. I was scholarshiping families when we didn't have the means to scholarship Right. And that's not good man, it's a trap you know yes.
Speaker 2:But then I learned, you know, know, it's like, along the way you kind of learn and then it was like, okay, but we can open up our 501c3 and we get scholarship through that. But you know, you get to that place where it's like my arc of growth has been I can't separate it, man, it all just bleeds Emotional, psychological, spiritual, financial. I can have some delineation, but it's just been growth, man, and the growth that I've seen has landed me at a place where I really am convinced it's greed. At this point it's like, dude, we got an awesome mom and pop pizza spot, okay. It's like, dude, we got an awesome mom and pop pizza spot. Okay, right now we're selling awesome Sicilian pizza and everybody loves it, and we got a great marinara recipe. What'll fuck up, man, is if we become a Domino's. I guarantee it, dude. And the way that happens is somebody comes in and goes this is a great pizza you got. We got to make it faster, we got to cut corners, we got to do less quality. It's like any other business where it just goes. We're going to stop caring about the product and our services as much and we're just going to try and find ways to make more bread and it's like that's never appealed to me.
Speaker 2:If you have that type of mentality I don't think you should be in mental health. I agree I think you could and I think you could make tons of money and do it very ethically. So I think the money thing money has to be looked at like Simon Sinek talked about. He said money, the business is the car and it's driving somewhere, it's on a mission, it's trying to get to a destination, it's going, it's traveling. The money is the gas, it's the fuel, that's it. But if you don't know where you're going and what you're doing and what your mission is, and if the only reason you're driving is to just keep making more money, for more gas, to just keep driving aimlessly, know the purpose of why you're making all this money and what you're going to do with it and what it's going to be.
Speaker 2:And what I've watched is a lot of like fat cat business owners, dude, I don't see anybody that owns a mental health treatment center that isn't driving like a really Hoopty but but. But even then you can tell where people's hearts are. Yeah, you can just tell where people's hearts are. It gets pretty sad when you watch people from the business world. Come in to the mental health world. The mental health world and people who used to be mental health focused will now be standing in the corner talking to two business guys going yeah, the money's here right now. What's the? What's the harebrained scam? What do we need to do? How do we get, how do we tap into this lucrative market, which is really a market that is revealing to us how much people are suffering and struggling and how much help they need? And I'm all for dude, but I have a problem if you're profiting and those people that you've served are still struggling even after they've received your services Right In a really intense way.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that you know what you're talking about too. I was, I was standing, it was uh, I was at Embark headquarters a couple years ago when they changed ownership. A bunch of leaders went away and, as parent companies go, I would say they're on the smaller end, but they own I don't know what 25 programs, something like that. And I'm standing in front of the new CEO and CFO because there's this event and things going on, and I'm sitting in a stool and they're standing by me because it's a you know meet and greet, blah, blah, blah. I'm like so, guys, how many programs do you think you need to own before you officially become evil? Like, is it 30? Programs do you think you need to own before you officially become evil? Like, and they just like their face, it was like they started to laugh uncomfortably, kind of, said a couple of things, then walked away.
Speaker 1:I'm like are we talking? We're talking to katia evil, media evil, but yeah, where do we go? Um, and, and then you know, uh, we've got uh, a couple of programs up here, their own fair, fairly sizable parent company, and one of the programs that's been more or less independent got bought and they started to do things. They changed leadership, they changed their structure, they started cutting expenses. It's just like you say you start changing the nature of the program because you're managing it through expenses, so this large entity can make more money. And I said, well, it looks like, uh, it looks like Bradford's going to kind of, you know, turn this program into, turn this program into crap, if they keep doing the same thing that acadia did to so many of its programs before they all closed. Let's see if they can get the hint before things get bad. Yeah, and their vp of of business development reached out to me and was like, hey, why did you say that? And I was like, well, hey, why don't you say that? And I was like, well, I think you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I get trying to control a reputation, but at this point it's like, dude, it's just facts. It's just facts, man, it's what you guys are doing.
Speaker 1:Well, he turned around and he wanted to invite me to a committee. So we got this world of people just like some of this, what you've been through, we got this world of people that needs to use their insurance. We've got these structures and I think some of it is like look, your corporate guys and your people like that. They can't always get yachts every year because they've made so much money. We've got to come away from that model. That's. That's pretty clear.
Speaker 1:We could walk down that road if we want to, but I was like there's a way to be in the middle of this line where you can provide a lot of care to a lot of people and not ditch the quality. I think that we can do that, but your heart's got to be in it and it's got to be in the right place. And, like you say, it can't just be about making more money and like you can't have a car with gas and what you've got in the trunk is like 20 tanks of gas. You try to buy a bigger car so you can have more tanks of gas that you're carrying around. You know, like it's not. I don't believe that that serves people in the end. And you know I'm I'm just really grateful that you made the move so you can serve more people, but your, your consciousness and your compassion and your heart is still in. I doubt you could ever do anything without those things being present personally, but I've tried.
Speaker 2:It doesn't work for me. I love being dude, having nothing to hide and just being real. But I'll be honest with you, man. The center is one of those where it's like I don't know what the future of it looks like time you know. But I do know this as long as its doors remained open, it will be operating with ethical integrity, with pride, with some of the best work.
Speaker 2:But I also understand the very real hurdle of when you get to a point and there's no gas, yeah, and you're like, oh, so it really isn't this, like, oh, you can run a business on all heart. No, you've got to learn about your expenses, your overhead operating costs, you've got to watch, you've got to be able to have all these skill sets. But I do think it's a balance. I think it's being honest with yourself when you step back and go okay, yes, I want to make profit and yes, I want to move in a direction where we can scale. But I never, ever want that to step over or on top of our services, our care and our clinical heart.
Speaker 1:I don't want to sacrifice my soul or the people we serve.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. Dr Weston Robbins, it has been my distinct pleasure to have you on the show today. We've gotten to the end of this hour. I feel like we could just keep going and going if we really wanted to, but I really want to have you back on the show. It's very great to see your face and to connect with you. Today this has been Dr Weston Robbins, with Eternal Strength on Head Inside Mental Health with Todd Weatherly. Thanks for being with me. Wes Appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Todd, I'm beyond grateful. Thank you for who you are. Thank you for the work that you do. You're a community leader. You've got a heart of gold brother, and I'd love to come back on. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I'll see you soon, very soon, down there in Atlanta. I can't wait. Awesome, be good. I'm used to the legal arts in here. In here, I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm used to the legal arts in here. In here, I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm a legal power-bearer. I'm a legal power-bearer. Oh, I feel so lonely and lost in here. I need to find my way home. I feel so lonely and lost in here. I need to find my way home.
Speaker 2:I feel so lonely and lost in here. I need to find my way home. I feel so lonely and lost in here. I need to find my way home. I feel so lonely and lost in here. I need to find my way home.
Speaker 1:Find my way home.