Lutz Go! - with Special Guest Steve Lutz

Sam welcomes Steve Lutz to Cowboys not Eggheads.   Steve  is the head basketball coach at Texas A&M - Corpus Christi. 

It didn't take Steve Lutz long to make a significant impact on the Texas A&M-Corpus Christi men's basketball program. In his first season, the Islanders earned an automatic bid to the 2022 NCAA Tournament after more-than quadrupling the team's win total from the year before.
 
 Lutz inherited a squad that finished 5-19 prior to his arrival and made the largest turnaround in program history with a 23-12 record. He was the only first year mid-major coach to make the 2022 NCAA Tournament.
 
 Lutz brought in 10 transfers, the most in NCAA Division I. A&M-Corpus Christi had 12 total transfers on its roster, which was also the most in the nation. Two of Lutz's transfers earned All-Conference honors in Isaac Mushila and Trevian Tennyson, and another - Terrion Murdix - was the SLC Tournament MVP and on the SLC All-Defensive Team.
 
 A&M-Corpus Christi won a school record 13 non-conference games. It was the most since joining a league in 2006-07. The Islanders got off to their best start in program history with a 10-2 record after 12 games. Additionally, the Islanders won their first-ever preseason tournament of at least three games after beating IUPUI, Denver and UTSA at the UTSA Tournament.
 
 Lutz was named a finalist for the 2022 Joe B. Hall National Coach of the Year Award. The award is presented annually to the top first-year coach in Division I college basketball. Additonally, Lutz was named the No. 1 immediately most successful hire for small schools by CBS Sports.
 
 Under Lutz's direction, A&M-Corpus Christi ranked fifth in the nation in free throws made (572), sixth in free throw attempts (776), 12th in steals (298), 14th in turnovers forced per game (16.51), 15th in offensive rebounds per game (12.77) and 18th in total rebounds (1,341).
 
 All 13 student-athletes that played in 2021-22 scored in double-figures in a game. The 13 was tied for the most in the nation with Bowling Green.
 
 Lutz was tabbed as the head men's basketball coach in April 2021. He spent the previous four seasons as an assistant coach at Purdue. During that span, the Boilermakers reached every NCAA Tournament including an Elite Eight in 2018-19 and a Sweet 16 in 2017-18.
  
 Lutz has roots in the state of Texas and a proven track record of success at all levels, including the Southland Conference. The San Antonio native also had highly successful stops at Creighton, SMU, Stephen F. Austin, Incarnate Word and Garden City.
 
 

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 0:33

Hey everybody, this week I'm very excited to welcome Steve Lutz, head coach of the Texas AM Corpus Christi men's basketball program to Cowboys Not Eggheads. A quick introduction of Coach Lutz. In his first full season, uh the Islanders of Texas AM and Corpus Corpus Christi earned an automatic bid to the 2022 NCAA tournament after more than quadrupling the team's win totals from the year before. Folks, we're talking to a real coach here. He inherited a squad that finished 5-12 prior to his arrival and made the largest turnaround in program history with a 23-12 record. He's the only first-year mid-major coach to make the 2022 NCAA tournament. Prior to coaching at Texas AM Corpus Christi, he was an assistant at Purdue from 20 to 2017. He was an assistant coach at Creighton, and while he was at Creighton, he was instrumental in the development of 2014 National Player of the Year Doug McNermott, who is the son of the Creighton head coach Greg McDermott. He was assistant at SMU, an assistant at Stephen F. Austin, and he started his coaching career at Incarnate Word, and then later at Garden City Community College. We're very excited to have him on and hope you enjoy the show. Coach Lutz, welcome to uh Cowboys Not Eggheads. I I really appreciate your time. I know it's valuable, and um uh a shout out to our mutual friend Jeff Bettsworth. He's probably the only guy in the world that would um somehow get us both on the same page. So I again appreciate your time, know it's valuable, and and um thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Sure, no problem. I'm excited. I'm excited. And uh you are correct. Uh I did a podcast with Jeff uh not too long ago where he had a good time doing it.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Well, we'll have I guess we'll fight to see whose goes up first. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I'm sure you'll beat him.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

So I've just got some quick questions for you today. I just want to go talk a little bit about your background. I want to kind of talk about um your coaching methodology, and I want to talk about uh maybe some your the the recruiting process and so forth. So my first questions are pretty simple, easy stuff. I'm I'm always interested in knowing on how folks are wired that they are or how they got to where they are. So what what was your favorite sport growing up? Was it basketball necessarily?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Man, I wish I could tell you that. Um I kind of played everything when I was growing up, and uh to be very honest with you, I was a much better baseball player. And uh I but I I did it all. Um I you know, I tried to tackle football, and then some big 200-pound kid landed on me when I was in seventh grade, and that was the end of that. Um but the basketball and the baseball stuck with me all the way through high school until my uh sophomore year. In my sophomore year, I'm playing baseball, and uh I hit one to the fence and I'm rounding first base. And back then, you know, you had um and maybe they have them today too, but you could have plastic cleats and you could have metal cleats and you could change them in and out. And a typical teenager, I didn't change them out correctly, and so it was loose, and I round first base, my foot sticks in the ground, I break my ankle, and so I miss all of summer AAU, and this is just when AAU is starting to get big. And uh so then the following year, you know, I'm behind everybody, I I I put on some weight. I end up having to play on the JV some, and all my buddies are playing varsity. And you know, like in my mind, I was I was as good as they were, and I was I just got a bad taste in my mouth, so I didn't play baseball after that. Um I just called it quit and went to basketball. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

And you you played collegiately, did you not? Incarnate words.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I did. I played in a little place called Texas Lutheran, yeah. I played at Texas Lutheran with Lutheran. At the time, yeah, at the time was NAI um division one, um and and it was a heck of a deal for me. I actually went to a junior college first uh for a semester because I was like any other hard-headed kid, and I thought that I was better than I was, and then I found out really quickly that there's a lot of really, really good basketball players out there, um, and I was fortunate that uh Texas Lutheran still still would honor my scholarship.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

So, what did you want to be when you were growing up? Did you always want to be a coach? Did you fall into it? What what did you originally want to be when you were growing up? What was your dream?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

I I I don't know. Like I didn't grow up wanting to be an astronaut or any of that kind of stuff, you know. Um I I get into college and uh I get into my sophomore year, and you're taking accounting one and two, and I'm a business major, and accounting one and two was really hard for me. And when I tell you it was hard for me, like I had to bust my tail to get a C. And and I was an A B student, like I had to keep a 3.0 to keep my academic scholarship to go with my basketball scholarship. So, long story short, I'm busting my tail to get a C in baby accounting, is what the guy called it. And he goes, like, do you realize there's five more accountings, you know, and statistics, and you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, holy smokes, this might not be the best thing for me. Um so I I I changed to education, um, and it was almost like a fallback because you know, I'd had a really good high school coach who was who was in the Hall of Fame, um, I had a good college coach, and that's what I knew, and I liked athletics, and I thought I was gonna go in the business world and make a ton of money in sales or something like that, because the competition aspect of the business world really appealed to me. And so I naturally just fell back into to athletics.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Interesting. If if you so and cle clearly that took you, yeah, took you on to coaching. Um, but if you weren't coaching today, what would you be doing?

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Jeez, I don't know, man. Um it would have to be something worth interaction with people with some competitiveness, maybe some sales. Um I I'm not an eight to five sit behind the desk kind of guy. Um I like to interact with people, I like to have relationships with people, um, I like to help people. So I don't know. I don't know what the heck I was doing.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I can see what your friends with uh I can see where you're friends with bets worth. You just I mean that's that's that's Betsy, pretty much what you just described. Yeah. Um you don't like people, you don't like people coaching you, huh? You don't like you don't like bosses. I mean, you're you're kind of an independent guy, um kind of a guy that's got his own drive, it's gonna make his own way.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, I've always believed that. And and you know, I was the youngest of six kids, and by the time I rolled around, shoot, my dad was retiring, and he wasn't, you know, he just probably wasn't as interactive with me as he was with maybe, you know, one, two, and three in our family. And so I was kind of out there, you know, and and they said, hey, you're either gonna go to college and get a scholarship, or you're gonna go to college and get a job, but you're going to college. And uh, you know, I was lucky to get the scholarship, but no, I've always kind of just found my own way.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Gotcha. The coaching profession is um you've been to uh and in the introduction, I I kind of told our listeners where where you've been. And and any coach at the collegiate level is a journeyman. You're all over. You're you're trying, you're looking for that next opportunity, and you're growing in the process, uh, getting more experience. And uh, I mean, it's awfully hard on your family. How tell me how you how does a coach's family deal with the frequent moves? How does how how does that tell us about that?

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah, I mean, it at times it sucks, you know, because you uh you you build relationships and lifelong friends where you're living, and then all of a sudden you gotta go. Um, but my kids have been been pretty fortunate because like some coaches are hey, I'm a year here, I'm a year here, I'm a two years here, I'm a year here. I haven't really been that way. I've been uh once we had our kids, um, we were at SMU for four, then we were at uh Creighton for seven, and then we were at uh Purdue for four. So like my oldest daughter, um, she's a sophomore at Purdue now, but she got to do her entire high school in West Loffe, Indiana. So my middle younger daughter, yeah, she got the shaft a little bit though. She got the shaft like going from from from Omaha or from uh Dallas to Omaha, and then a little bit from um Indiana to Texas because she transferred down here and she's just now a junior. But like I'm doing my best, um, you know, obviously to stay here through her senior season or her senior year, I should say, and uh, you know, get her to be able to graduate um with the friends that she's developed down here rather than move her in her senior year and she has to start all over again. But like that's there are some issues with it. There are some issues with it, but I think of the good, Sam. Like they have to learn to go into a new place and meet people and make friends and and figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Those are right life skills that will that will pay dividends later.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yeah, you think about the a lot of kids nowadays that maybe sit in their room and play video games and play on their phone, and the social interaction amongst the the younger generations just isn't what it was for you know the old farts like us.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Um, coach, I got to see your team uh play last year. You played at UNO uh and beat UNO. And I came away I told Betsy this, and I and Betsy knows I don't blow smoke up people's scored for no reason, but your team was very focused, it was disciplined, um, it was accountable, it seemed like to me, uh, and it executed. Now that didn't happen because you just had a bunch of guys and and it that di there's a lot of work that went into that, and that's coaching. To me, that's a pure sign of coaching. So I guess my question is how I mean you uh uh from the time that you got that job to the time you played you know was what a period of three, four months? I I don't I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Uh I got it in April and we probably played there in November, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

You had time to whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

It's it's so what what is sort of your I mean just just like your family's meeting new people, you're meeting some new players, or I think you may have brought some players along, or tell us about your team last year and how did you how did that come together so quickly for you? I was I was very impressed.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Well, thank you. Um it was an odd process. You know, I got the job in April, and um at the end of the day, only three players stayed with us. Um everybody else either had been in the transfer portal or you know, a couple of them weren't gonna fit um my plans, a couple of them, you know, didn't maybe like what I was saying, what whatever the case may be, everybody kind of kinda left. So we ended up having um or bringing in uh you know, it wasn't number one, but it was like three or four, if I'm not mistaken, um the highest rate of transfers in the country. So we brought in a brand new team, and um we were able to get them here in June and July and start to work them out.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

So uh how many guys knew each other? It was only three guys that knew each other, or were there half a dozen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

No, not three guys that knew one another.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

So how do you put together a bunch of guys that don't know each other essentially? They're all talented, and they all they all obvious how does that work? How do you do that? What is what is your philosophy?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. Um you know, we we brought them all in, and and I I believe in in recruiting guys that can play different positions and can kind of do different things that are good basketball players. So um, you know, we we brought them all in and and we just kind of we're really honest with them. We just always talk about our team, we always talk about they're all gonna get the same opportunity, and and it's the guys that make the most of the opportunity um that are gonna get to play. And you know, you may play the first two months of the year, but if somebody you know outcompetes you in practice and somebody is more effective in the game, man, that's just part of life. You got beat out, so the next person plays because um, and I stole this from from somebody that I worked with, um, a guy by the name of Matt Painter, all my decisions that I make are for the uh best interests of Texanium Corpus Christi. Like I can, Sam, I can like you to death, but you know what? If if Betsy's a better player and he does what I ask him to do, he's gonna play in front of you because ultimately we get judged, you know, on wins and losses in our program. Um so we just kind of brought him in and and just set the bar of expectations. And and our bar of expectation is that uh every year we're gonna have a chance to win the league, we want to win the conference, and then we want to win the the conference tournament so that we can have an automatic bid to the NCA tournament. And as the the program continues to build, we want to win games in the NCA tournament. And I felt like we had recruited enough talent um you know that spring. And uh then, you know, we were just able to get them to buy in um you know to the to the main goal of our program and our organization, and that's obviously to make to get to the NCAAs.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

What kind of student athlete are are you uh uh trying to recruit? Um, what are you looking for in a college basketball player?

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I I don't have a specific like geographical area that they come from. I don't have a specific height. Um like recruiting basketball players to me is a little bit like dating. And uh when I go and watch somebody.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

You're gonna kiss a bunch of you're gonna my buddy used to say, you're gonna kiss a bunch of frogs and and and you're probably gonna get slapped a couple of times, right? You'll find you'll find Princess at some point.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Yeah, for sure. And and we get told a no a lot more than we get told a yes. So yeah, um, but but in the recruiting process, I mean I'm always looking for character. I I life's too short to um to be around people that you don't enjoy being around every day. Um because it's hard enough to be a college athlete and a college coach if you uh you know if you have great people around you, and then when you have some guys that are that are knuckleheads or they're always in trouble or something, man, it just it it doesn't even make the winning fun. Unfortunately, I've I've been in a situation or two with that. Um, you know, I want to be around people that I enjoy and and and when you win you get to enjoy it with them. But so I look for you know good people, and then my second thing is just obviously look for good basketball players because again, I I like guys that can pass handle and shoot the ball and play multiple positions. Um, because we play motion offense, we don't run a ton of sets, we don't run a ton of ball screens, we don't script what we're doing. Like my belief is get good players and give them some space and let them go make basketball plays and and play unselfishly, and if they do that, more times than not, you're gonna be in a great you know, you're gonna be in a great position to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Absolutely. I I like you I think you and I are about the same age. I actually think you're a little bit younger, but uh, you're in a half century club or coming upon it, right? Um 54. Uh but kids are different today, it's a different time. We should expect kids to be different in in 2022 than they were in 1989 or whatever. Um but we're a society of of participation trophies and instant gratification. And how in your opinion, how many talented kids who could probably do well are left behind simply because they're too soft? That's a very direct question.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah, Lee. Um you know, and and I'm like guys that I coached in 95-96 when I when I first started into coaching that come to watch practice now or come to watch play us play now, call me a softie. But I I like you have to adapt, right? This generation or these young people, they're just different. They're they're just different. Um whether it's the participation trophies, whether they're soft, I don't know. I know that they're different than I was maybe coming out, and I've just tried to adapt with them um so that I can, you know, so that we can be successful some so I don't get fired. But uh you need to explain more to these guys. Like they want they don't want to like you say, hey, run to the wall and touch. Like you just have to interact with them more and you have to explain more. There's a lot of whys.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Is it Is there more, yeah, uh more is there more feedback required? I mean, you're uh it's a communications thing. I mean I've studied this. I was a I'm retired now, but I I went to classes on how do you manage these Gen Zs and I don't know what they are now, Gen Z's, uh Gen Ys, millennials. How do you manage them? And and one of the things that that i it it's it's constant feedback. They have to have is that your experience? Um maybe over 20 years ago you you didn't, you know, you just didn't have to explain why you're why you're running lines today.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

I mean, yeah, no, no, no, no. It's a hundred percent correct. And and I like to I like to use facts, and so I use statistics a lot to to make my point. Like if you're not a good three-point shooter and you shoot 26%, I'm not gonna let you shoot five threes a game. Right? But if you shoot 46% and there's a chance that you have an open shot and it's a three-shoot it every single time you can. And so I'm very forthright, yeah, I'm forthright and honest with them and try to explain um why I think the way that I think. Um and and you know, the the truth of the matter is is that you know, if you haven't been a th really good three-point shooter during your high school career, uh you're probably not gonna be a good three-point shooter in college unless you work and change some things and whatever. So your your history, right? What's happened in the past is probably gonna be the best predictor of your future. And I do dig into the to the statistics and the analytics on kids as I recruit them. And um, you know, I I I try to get as much information as I can um so that I can make an educated choice. And you know, I tell them the same thing. Excuse me, I tell them the same thing. They've got to make an educated choice on what school they go to. Um and and don't go to somewhere where he tells you everything that you want to hear, go somewhere where they tell you the truth. Because when you get there, it's not gonna be all um you know, sun and and daisies every day. There's gonna be some tough days no matter where you're going to school.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Exactly right. Do you turn well that's a dumb question because the answer is you don't in a position to turn kids down. But when you recruit kids, are you are you looking for a certain why from them? I mean, some everybody's got a why. And I in my opinion, there's a right why and a wrong why. Do you see it that way? Or you just take their why and coach them up individually?

SPEAKER_02 20:44

I no, I try to get them for the right why. No, I absolutely yeah, because if if and and you know what's funny though is so we live in Corpus Christi, there's 250, 275 days of sun a year. We live on a on an island, there's a beach across the street. It's beautiful down here. But like we sell that in recruiting, but I tell those guys all the time, like if you're coming down here to hang on on the beach, you're choosing this for the wrong place because your ass is going to be in that gym. And that gym is the same gym here as it is in Omaha, Nebraska, right? I mean, it's you know 94 feet by 50 and with lights and a gun. So um, but I I try to dig under the hood a little bit and see are are they coachable? Are they unselfish? Are they about the team? Because to me, you've got to have a requisite amount of talent, but you've got to find the right guys that are willing to do what you're gonna ask them to do, even though it's not what they want to do. Somebody's somebody each one of these guys was all conference. You know, all these JUCO guys we recruited, they were all conference, but you can't have, I'm not gonna have 12 all conference guys. The voting doesn't work that way. So somebody's gonna have to sacrifice, right? So you gotta figure out which ones are gonna be about us and not about them.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Right. Right. Rebounding. I'm gonna talk about rebounding because it's my as a fan, it's a big pet peeve of mine. Um I see I see it a lot. I won't say which team I root for, but I do live in Nebraska, and it's they wear it red, not blue. But anyway, um rebounding to me is is the is the best evidence of a maximum effort in basketball. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

I think it's a part of it for sure. Because rebounding I'm not trying to trick you or yeah, go ahead. No, no, no. Uh re rebounding is about effort, it's about heart, it's about it's not as much about technique as it about is it about want, right? But I I look at defense the same way too. Yeah, your attitude, your approach, but the defense is the same way too. You know, we're pretty aggressive. I think we were top 10 or 15 in the country and in rebounding percentage offensively, but we were also defensively.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Now you know why I liked your team. That's why I liked your team.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I mean, defensively we were turnover percentage or turnovers forced, we were top 10 or 15 in the country. So I I think that if you can get guys to be aggressive and play hard and buy into all that stuff, you're just gonna get yourself extra possessions. And whether it's football or basketball, the team winning favors the team with the most possessions, right? It's just if I get 10 more cracks at the basket than you, man, I'm probably gonna win. Unless I just turn it ball over a ton. But you see what I'm saying? So um back to the why, right? Um the recruiting and their why. If if their why is to come to Corpus Christi and average 28 points and go pro, well then that's not my vision for them. My vision for them is to go win the league and win the tournament and go to the NCA tournament. So it's all tied in together in my in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense to me. There's a couple more questions. Who who is uh your coaching mentor in this business? Is there is there somebody out there that you uh you know, like even a coach Wooden or or a current coach or somebody that you know that you could just call and and talk to and ask them questions, or do you have anybody like that?

SPEAKER_02 24:17

I do it with all kinds of people.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Who's the coach's coach?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

My wife's my coach's coach, but um I do it with all kinds of people. Like I call Matt Painter and his staff, I call Greg McDermott and his staff, I call Jeremy Cox that I worked for in junior college. Um, you know, I I I'm all over the map. I uh again, I'm a believer in um you know gathering facts, gathering opinions, and then obviously you've got to finish it with your own opinion. But and then I'm uh maybe I'm a little bit different, and I I probably took this from from working for Matt Doherty. I think it's good to talk to people outside of your um your circle, like talk to people in business about how they would handle um personnel issues because our personnel issues are the same as you know somebody that manages people in their respective department. So I I try to do that a lot. I I just pick people's brains and and I'm pretty simple. Once I like you, um, then I like you. You know, there's not an ulterior motive with me asking people questions and trying to get to know people. I I just think that uh, you know, what's that old saying about birds of a feather flock together? I mean, I I try to find people that are like-minded to me and aren't afraid to tell me when I'm right or when I'm wrong, or you know, give me some outside the box thought. Um, because there's not always, you know, I'm not always doing it the right way, that's for darn sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah. Great stuff. Okay, well, so I'm gonna wrap it up and I appreciate your time. I know it's extremely valuable, and I, you know, we're getting ready for a season here, so I'm not gonna squander your time. Um kind of an off-the-wall question uh that I'm asking guests this season. And that is do you carry something that you value in your wallet besides money?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Uh something I value in my wallet besides money. Um, I don't for the record.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Well, actually, I have one thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

I have insurance cards. Um, I don't carry it in my wallet. I I carry it in my backpack. Um so we have a challenge coin that we've given each one of our players and people, and anyone that's in our program that talks about our our three rules, and our three rules are real simple. Um, love your teammates, do the right thing, and be your best. So we I keep that in my backpack, and then uh along the way, like last year we were in New Orleans playing, and uh we were we weren't playing well at the time. Like we started off great, and then we kind of hit the skids for a little bit, and then we finished great. Um, but we were it was Mardi Gras and we got a king cake. And in a king cake, which is really good by the way, in a king cake, there's gonna be a little, yeah, it's gonna be a little bitty um plastic baby, like maybe the size of a quarter. And you have to eat the right piece to get it. Well, of course, I ate so much king cake I was sick, but I got that little baby, and so I keep that with me. And uh I carried it with me throughout the season. And so I've got little stuff like that that when somebody gives me something, or you know, I I believe that something comes into your life for a reason, like that day it was the it was the little baby from the king cake, and it meant good luck. Man, I keep that stuff, but I keep it in my backpack.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

That's it, it's interesting. It's a great question because people have the the best answers to that. It's great stuff.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah, I used to carry Yeah, you're good. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

No, no, no, go go go ahead. You used to carry what? I don't want to see.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

I used to carry in my right pocket. So when I started in coaching, I worked for a guy and he said you always have to have a pen in your pocket and you always have to have a piece of paper. Well, with cell phones, I've gotten away from the piece of paper a little bit, but I used to carry a piece of paper with my business cards, and then I would keep like if you went to eat Chinese food and there was a good saying in there, I'd keep that. Or uh there was a when I was coming up in coaching, there was a not a poem, but a uh something written about the power of being a coach, and I can't I keep that in my right pocket. I just don't carry that. I still have that folded up, little wada papers. I just don't carry it every day anymore. Um, but I don't know. Uh maybe I'm weird.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Interesting. I you know what I lied, I lied, listeners, I lied, Coach Lutz. Shame on me. I had one question, one last question that I didn't I forgot to ask. That is this this title of the show is Cowboys Not Eggheads, and I believe we need both in the world. Um my premise is I'd rather when the when when it hits the fan, I'd rather have a few more cowboys and a few more eggheads. Coaching to me, though, is you've got to be pretty darn good at both. Uh we've talked about, you know, you're a statistical guy, you're an analytical guy. You've got to be that. But you also have to be a bit of a cowboy, I think. Uh in the way that you're, you know, you're fierce, you're independent, you're determined. What are what are your thoughts on that as far as comparing my little parad my paradigm of cowboys and eggheads to coaching?

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Yeah, no, I I think you have to have both. But you know, I I would equate it to war a little bit. You better have some cowboys that are ready to go up there and and take that hill, but you also better have some guys to tell them, hey man, we shouldn't go up the east side. Let's go up the south side where there's more coverage and you know, people you have to have both in the world.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

But you you have to figure out a way to get them both to work together to get your goal.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Can't do it alone. Can't do it alone. And the same with with coaching. Like, I can't do it alone. I've got a great staff, but ultimately our staff's got to figure out how to manage 16 or 15 different personalities and get them to put their their egos aside and and you know work towards um being the best we can here at AM Corpus Christi.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Great stuff. We'll end it there. Hey, I really appreciate your time and have great uh great wishes on a and uh another successful season. Um I'm I'll we'll be following ya. Sounds good, Sam.