The Emasculation of Men - with Special Guests J.D. Crouse, Kyle Kasperbauer, and Kevin Bailey

The panel discussion explores the emasculation of men in America and how it is a spiritual attack on masculinity. The guests discuss the importance of authentic masculinity and the role of vulnerability in being a man. They also touch on the concept of toxic masculinity and how it is a marketing term used to attack masculinity. The panel emphasizes the need for a relationship with Jesus and the importance of small groups and accountability in living out authentic masculinity. The conversation covers various topics related to raising children, gender identity, compassion, and the anticipation of heaven. The importance of two parents in a child's life is discussed, along with the challenges of navigating pronouns and gender identity in schools. The need for compassion and understanding for those struggling with identity issues is emphasized, while also acknowledging the influence of the enemy and the importance of truth. The complexity of identity issues and mental illness is addressed, and the importance of knowing one's identity and purpose is emphasized. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the beauty and promise of heaven, the narrow path to salvation, and the importance of receiving and walking in God's love.

Takeaways

The presence of two parents in a child's life is important for their upbringing and development.
Compassion and understanding are crucial when dealing with individuals struggling with identity issues.
Knowing one's identity and purpose in God is essential for living a fulfilling life.
The anticipation of heaven provides hope and motivation to live a righteous life.
Receiving and walking in God's love allows us to be conduits of His love to others.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Panel Discussion
03:19 The Emasculation of Men in America
07:05 How Did We Get Here?
10:03 The Spiritual Attack on Men
13:22 Toxic Masculinity
16:04 The Importance of Vulnerability
18:07 The Role of Authentic Masculinity
21:25 The Impact of Fatherhood and Marriage
26:57 Toxic Masculinity as a Marketing Term
32:10 The Fall of Pastoral Leaders
36:25 The Importance of a Relationship with Jesus
41:13 The Need for Small Groups and Accountability
49:14 Raising Children and the Importance of Two Parents
50:41 Discussion on Pronouns and Gender Identity
52:18 Compassion and Understanding for Those Struggling with Identity
53:06 The Influence of the Enemy and the Importance of Truth
54:55 Challenges Faced by Families and the Role of Grandparents
56:15 The Complexity of Identity Issues and Mental Illness
57:17 The Need for Compassion and Understanding in Dealing with Identity Issues
58:43 The Importance of Knowing Who We Are and Where We're Going
01:00:35 Living a Life of Compassion and Spreading God's Love
01:02:18 Meeting People Where They're At and Showing Love
01:04:06 The Anticipation and Beauty of Heaven
01:09:03 The Excitement and Promise of Heaven
01:11:22 The Narrow Path to Heaven and the Importance of Salvation
01:15:53 Seeking the Kingdom of God and Living Righteously
01:19:48 Receiving God's Love and Walking in His Ways
01:20:38 Contact Information for the Guests

Video: https://youtu.be/7tP1NElKyJg

contacts:  
Sam Fischer - cowboysnoteggheads@gmail.com
J.D. Crouse -  Instagram - @AnotherLevelManofficial FaceBook: Another Level Man
Kyle Kasperbauer - Instagram @

Transcript

Chad (00:02.006)
You were late. Yeah. You want it again? No. That means it means something. All right, today we're gonna try something different on Cowboys Not Aged. It's one of the ideas that I, I've got some really interesting guests and it occurred to me in the last couple of months that there are guests that I think would be really interested in know each other. And so this is the first of maybe several panel discussions that we're gonna have on this podcast. And so today, we'll quickly introduce our guests. We have,

uh from Frederick'sburg Texas my friend JD Krauss one-time veteran of Cowboys Not Eggheads in the episode of Born in Cherry County JD and I go way back JD's uh is uh all three of these guys are I would consider to be spiritual leaders uh and they're all three friends so that's why I want to get them in here so JD's

is a very successful guy who has competed at the highest level in rodeo, professional rodeo, is that right? Yeah, that's okay. But you are also part of an organization called Another Level Man, correct? And also League of Elite Men. And so your mission, if you look on your LinkedIn profile, is

JD (01:07.85)
That was a day or two ago, like 20 years.

JD (01:20.322)
That's right, that's right.

Chad (01:29.95)
is you kind of want to lead men that are in the half times of their life, is that correct?

JD (01:36.162)
That's right. Yeah, I'm 54 almost. And I think that midlife, we have some new challenges and it's not all about money anymore, seems like. And so, yeah, that's my desire. My desire is for men to get free.

Chad (01:54.41)
Okay, two other gentlemen here that I think agree with you. Kyle Caspar, who's now his third time on Cowboys Not Eggheads, welcome back. Thank you, Sam. Kyle is a eight time CrossFit Games participant, a three time champion, the only person in the world. They can say that they've been on the podium in the individual team and master's division, which is pretty impressive. Kyle runs my gym called

CrossFit Kinesis and as Jesus squarely in the middle of his life. And then Kevin, who's a newbie, he's the virgin here. Yeah, first time. Welcome. Kevin Bailey is a co-director or founder of reverence restored, which is a marriage counseling service and which plays heavy emphasis on men being men.

right. And so I really think this is going to be a fun discussion. What I want to talk about today was a topic that JD you actually brought up in your podcast. And it's something I never thought of. And it's the emasculation of men in America today. And so I, as the listeners know, I sent out a little, something my wife found, actually.

from the University of Vermont, a place that you wouldn't necessarily think to be spiritual or conservative or any of that, but they are very concerned that there is a big discrepancy or disparity in gender for folks going to college. They have 62% of their student body are female and they're trying to get that to be 50-50 and they've actually started a program.

called manned masculinity. So I'm just gonna start this and try not to talk over everyone. I'm gonna try and get out of the way and let you guys talk. But how in the heck did we get here? We'll start with JD. How did we get here? Where we have to have a topic called the emasculation of men in America. How did we get here, JD?

JD (04:12.298)
Well, my point of view, my worldview is going to be a kingdom worldview. And so I believe and I've been trying to follow Jesus for about 29 years. And for two decades, I really bought into and was overwhelmed by the feminine, loving nature of God. Uh, his loving nature leads us to repentance. And

It was a beautiful season of my life to experience the love of God, the love of the Father, the love of Jesus. I had never been introduced, Sam, to the masculine nature of God. And so growing up on a ranch, competing in steer wrestling and roping and just being a boy, being kind of, are we cussing today a little bit? Is that all right or no?

Chad (05:04.081)
We thought the real big ones but yeah, sure.

JD (05:05.862)
Yeah, so I mean, being a wild ass and just being a young man, it seemed like there was no representation of authentic masculinity inside of religious circles. What most people, most Christians call church. I call the worship center model, the building, if you will, where people gather on Sunday. And so how did we get here? Well, if we believe that it's important for men.

to operate in both feminine and masculine ways, express those attributes, the attributes of God. It's almost like testosterone. Even women need testosterone. Even men need estrogen. And so when we see toxic masculinity in the world, it's probably people focusing too much on this bravado, masculine expression. But...

to land the plane, how we got here is I believe it's a spiritual attack on the man. It's a spiritual attack from the enemy of humanity that is trying to wreck men in society, in the home, and there has been a lie that has been perpetrated by well-meaning people, a lot of them followers of Jesus, that

that we need to dial that shit down, that we can't operate as a protector, provider, warrior, saint, son, heir, all these things that the Bible talks about, and that we need to really be focused on only the feminine attributes of God. So short, I think it's a spiritual attack on humanity laser focused on men.

Chad (07:05.374)
Okay, and I think there's gonna be some things said here today that not everybody agrees with, which I love. Yeah. So anybody that disagrees with anybody, we're all friends here, so go right ahead. Kyle, what is your take on how did we get here? Well, to be quite honest, I can primarily speak on my own experience and really just lean in on that and connect that with maybe how, maybe other people that were also dealing with that, but

Along the lines of what he just said is truly what I experienced through a divorce in the family. And I'm sure KB can speak more on the percentages of divorce currently and the reasons why that is taking place. But in my family, I'm not pointing any fingers specifically. However, I didn't have a man in my life. So I was only experiencing the female presence.

of what was going on. I was at a certain point in my life that we stopped having dinners as a family. We stopped experiencing structure just because it became chaos in the family. And then all of a sudden I'm starting to raise myself and I did the best I could as a boy raising myself. And I never became truly a man's man, if you will. I started learning how to be a man at the age of 35. And that was truly through a men's Bible study.

of what it meant to be a leader, what it meant to be a spiritual leader, what it meant to have God in your life, but doing so not in a private way and also not in a shove it down your throat way, just in a confident spiritual leading way of being a man from God versus just going through life and

cowering to certain topics, avoiding certain things, only staying in my lane for certain issues that are going on in real life. So just the education piece from learning how to be a man from the Bible, learning how to see, hey, what would Jesus do in this situation? Having that be a motto, but just consistently experiencing that through my own testimony. I'm sure that there's many, many more people that can speak on that.

Chad (09:23.65)
through their own experience as well. And again, that comes through that increased divorce rate, that lack of man's presence, and a godly man, not just a man, but a godly man.

Fascinating fascinating answers. All right, Kevin, how did we get here? Yeah, how's that? However you want to I will I'll take the easy path first I agree with what both of these guys have said and I think the answer is it started right away I mean you see it break down in Genesis immediately Eve takes a bite of the apple immediately. She's the one that gets blamed You've got Adam over here who didn't stop her So we're talking about being the pastor of the heart the protector of their mind and the provider of stability

all of the sudden we instantly have God say in Genesis that from now on the woman is gonna have this desire to have control over the man. And I think we really got here by this confusion of, I love what JD said because the past would always say, okay, there's these two levels of who God is. There's the feminine side and then there's the masculine side. So true, but we don't really even start to see that play out until we get to the New Testament. So you've got thousands of years of

kind of the ogre in the sky guide, God, if I do anything bad, it's more religious based. It's the routines following the law. Then Jesus hits the set and this whole ministry is about love and meeting people right where they're at, going into the dark places to really see men restored and coming at it from two different areas. So you look at how we got here, sin. It's really just this sin world, this fallen world that we lived in. And then you take on top of that of where we're at today.

We're so overstimulated and under-disciplined. We don't fall back to the roots of what God says, trying to live like Kyle explained, surrounding ourself with people that are gonna build us up. We do it culture's way, which says I'm gonna be a womanizer, I'm gonna make a lot of money, I'm gonna be this masculine man on the inside, but masculinity starts with vulnerability. We've gotta be emotionally connected to the people that are around us so that we can love them well. And then there's this whole other piece of what do I look like on the outside?

Chad (11:27.842)
It's not so much that outside piece. Yeah, there's the fitness component, which Kyle can speak to. I've got to provide for my family in a way that they can be supported, stable, that I'm gonna raise my kids up in this right house that follows God's plan, but also the only way I'm gonna do that is if I respond in love. Awesome. So I think I need to kind of talk about my experience. And it's interesting, because you guys all have kind of implied like you need to be taught to be a man.

I don't think anyone ever told me how to be a man. But I think I'm a man. I don't think I got a problem with it. The problem I have with is the vulnerability issue. I'm not good at it. And if anyone's listening to my podcast, I think they probably discovered that. I still understand when people say, feel, I feel, I feel. I don't, I truly don't feel with my heart. I feel with my gut. And I was raised...

I have no issues with my father. He was a very strong man. JD knew him, right? He would say my dad was a strong man. And my grandfather was even a stronger man. I mean, there was a guy that was... He had an eighth grade education. We died. He had two branches to his name. He was a cowboy. And so, it was never taught to me. It was implied. I mean, no one said, hey, you need to do this or you need to do that. There was a certain way that I thought that I needed to conduct myself.

JD (12:29.11)
Yep, yep, absolutely.

Chad (12:52.51)
and it's shaped me into who I am today. But it's that vulnerability part, I thought we were cowboys here, now we're being a egghead. But it's that vulnerability part that I need to work on. We all need to work on. And so, this conversation's kind of going a weird way here. I mean, I wanna know why, how come there's pronouns that don't say he and she? How come?

How come men don't act like men anymore? How come there's a push now towards the normality of transgender, changing genders? That you guys are taking this a different, just very interesting. And we'll talk about all that if we want. But it's kind of interesting. Because no one's ever said, hey Sam, here's how to be a man. I was always.

Everything I ever did in my life, my parents showed me. I was lucky man. I mean, you knew my mom too, right? I mean, my mom was the, yeah, ladder of integrity. And so it was all kind of, no one ever said, Sam, do these six things to be a man. It was more of, I kind of fell into it, but it's that one piece that I've got to work on that we just talked about. Yeah.

JD (13:57.366)
Very strong woman, wonderful woman.

JD (14:13.298)
If I may, Sam, if I could add, because I know where you grew up, because that's where I grew up, we had the blessing of having authentic masculinity from a worldly perspective in the natural model to us every day. Like, there was nobody that wasn't working. There was nobody. And there's a...

And it's actually a trap, I believe, which is a performance based identity, which I'm sure Kyle could speak to. But, you know, if you, if you're a good man in the sand hills and anywhere in Nebraska, I think, you know, you, you're going to be defined by your work ethic. That son of a bucks, a hard worker. That's she's a hard worker. He's a hard worker. And so you had it modeled to you.

and you grew up in an environment where there were a lot of men that physically demonstrated the masculine nature of God, where I think, and I don't know for sure your spiritual upbringing, but I know for me, the thing that was lacking for me was the connection between the Imago Dei that I was made in the image and likeness of God, and

connecting my very spirit that I'm a spirit man first and connecting that to a physical attribute which is demonstrated by in a lot of ways strength and being steadfast being able to stand and to tie standing and steadfastness into vulnerability my opinion is that in order for us I think it's for you it might just be a mind

just a mind shift maybe, but the more steadfast I am and secure in who I am in the Lord and I walk in that, the more vulnerable I can be because my worthiness and my identity comes from my Father, right? And so it's an encouragement to you because we've been taught, don't cry, suck it up, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get back in the game, get back on the horse, you know.

Chad (16:04.236)
Yeah.

JD (16:31.326)
Knock that off, you know, and we haven't been taught or shown how to be vulnerable. And just to confess, like my daughter, my 13 year old girl, she's like, dad, you ball all the time at movies and stuff. She's just like, it's embarrassing. And I mean, when I went to see a case for Christ, least troubles movie, literally guys, I had, I bet I, I had a pile of.

Chad (16:50.756)
It is hurt.

JD (17:00.866)
just snotty napkins. I had to move away from my family because I was just weeping. It got me in my feels so hardcore. So I would encourage you to ask God to pierce your heart because when you experience the love of God, not that you haven't, but when it's in there and he's working on that sucker, hoo hoo, it's gonna be a waterworks, brother. You're gonna be ballin' all the time.

Chad (17:28.798)
Yeah, well, I have cried once or twice in my life. Cried the four scum, everybody's seen four scum. Guess the part where I cried. No one would ever guess it. Lieutenant Dan came on. No, no. He found out that he had a child, and he said, he's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, but is he smarter, is he stupid? And I just got chills just saying that. I cried during that scene. So I cried. Yeah.

JD (17:43.662)
That's what I was going to say.

Chad (17:59.258)
I mean, I cried Rambo and Rocky. Can I add something?

JD (18:03.588)
Oh, I'm the only guy that cries all the time. Okay, I'll be that guy.

Chad (18:07.686)
I never cried either. I'll let Kyle speak his piece, but I was somebody that was able to hold back tears forever. But to your point JD, as soon as Christ came into my life, I put away that piece and started to become this more vulnerable man and was able to actually express myself in those tears and in those weeping moments of the work that God had done because I was a new man. I mean, he truly Ezekiel, right? He had replaced my heart, taken out my stone cold heart and replaced it with a brand new heart.

JD (18:28.982)
Yeah.

Chad (18:36.094)
Yeah, that's so powerful. Well, maybe Sam needs a heart transplant. Yeah, we all do. Every single day. Sam. JP, to your point, I feel like I kind of knew what it was like to be a man just from working hard and not communicating and shutting up and just getting the work done, but when I became a husband, but then also a father, and I put my career behind me just a little tiny bit.

JD (18:40.674)
Hehehe

Chad (19:05.558)
there was this huge area that I was lacking. And that lack was the ability to have a, be a husband. So be a man through marriage that again, KB is just chomping at the bit to talk about. And I, and he's so gifted in this, but I knew how to work hard. I knew how to be tough. I knew how to be strong. I knew how to be the primary protector and provider of finances, but not really a provider of emotions. But more than anything,

It was, I never saw parents fight and then make up. I never saw them play fair and argue, but then argue in a way to where there's a godly way to come back to the central and to neutral, and then also give glory to God for him bringing us together. I didn't see any of that. I didn't have those tools. I didn't get that modeled out to me. I didn't see how to parent.

with two people, two parents in the house. It was always like, you know what? It's gonna be my way, the highway. I gotta lead this family. I gotta be strong, you know? And that was such a missing puzzle piece in my game that was exposed like crazy to the point to where the only thing I got modeled to me at a certain young age was how to work hard. And then after that, it was my head coaches in my sports.

So I just drove harder and understood if I put work in, it will pay off. So then in this marriage, when I'm starting to cut back on my career and starting to raise children, I'm like, holy cow, I need more. This is an area that I need to work on and that's where I seeked out a men's group. And boy, I walked in there and the first day I was only there, I showed up late and I left early. I didn't put that as priority. It wasn't, I'm good, I'm all right. I know there's a God.

And I kind of know about him, even though I didn't ever, I didn't open up my Bible one time. And he was this big guy up top and he's like, hey, don't make any mistakes. That's the guy that I knew. That KB mentioned real quick. But the first men's group, I showed up late, I left early, but I left early bawling. And nobody said anything specifically that was over condemning to me. It was all convicting. I felt God's love for me. I felt that there was a huge lack.

JD (21:16.555)
Mmm.

Chad (21:25.638)
of me as a man through God's eyes, not through man's eyes. And that vulnerability piece, I didn't have that. We argued, and I had to be the strong one to prove my point. But as guys, we rebound quickly. Women are a lot more emotional, and my wife, it took her time to rebound. Long time.

That's that piece JP that you're talking about that modeling piece. I'm speaking from my experience. Of a married couple that I didn't have and that's that you nailed it right on the head there. So I don't know if KB wants to tap into that at all or Sam, what do you think on that buddy? Well, it's interesting.

Chad (22:12.542)
I don't know, Kevin, go ahead. Yeah. I've got a lot of thoughts at the moment. I have a lot too, and we can take this down so many different directions. But like, so we do marriage coaching. My wife and I do couples coaching, and then we both do individual coaching as well. And we've coached over about 150-ish couples now. And males specifically, I've probably worked with 75 individual males. And the number one theme that I see when I work with men is what Kyle's describing right now. There's this.

time in their life, when you unpack the things of your life and you look at the ways that you were raised up, we all come into marriage, we all come into life with a suitcase. Most of the time, we never open that suitcase and share it. Let's just use the clothes example. I wore this shirt then, I wore these pants then, and these are memories that are created of, work hard, strap up your work boots, go make more money. I've gotta be the man of the house, but we never start really.

sharing all of those clothes. Then when we get married, we take two suitcases, throw them in a bed, and now we're both sleeping on dirty clothes that we never talk about. There's a little piece there where all of a sudden it's like, ooh, that hurts a little bit. Man, I had that shirt on when somebody told me I wasn't gonna measure up, or I'm not good in bed. For women, I mean, there's just this, all of these different things that happen as kids that the first time that we see pornography.

everybody can remember the very first time that they saw a magazine, a video. Well, when we've got kids now and in their twenties and thirties who have grown up with a computer in their hand, they are seeing pornography. So accessible. Yeah. At an early age, often as much as they want. It's literally like swiping as fast as all of those come in. You've got women, you've got money, you've got all of these things in your life. When you don't have this space to unpack all of that,

Your heart has wounds. So if you think about it, we're all laying on an operating table. We're wide open, our hearts exposed. The world is bacteria. And we're in this room where we've got nothing to filter that bacteria out to say, time out. This is gonna make you sick if we don't pull it back out. Let's get into a sterile room. How do we get into that sterile room? We spend time with the Lord, processing the things of our heart, cleaning our heart daily, five minutes at a time sometimes, say, Lord, I wanna be a better representation of you.

Chad (24:30.922)
What do I need to repent of so that I can be the best version of myself, the best version of a man that knows how to pastor our wife's heart? Because I think JD was talking about this a little bit. We've got these three Ps of being a man, right? We've got the pastor of their heart or a pastor protector provider. Well, if I were to use the word pastor with a group of spiritual men, they're going to think, okay, who's the one that teaches me everything? That's great. But a pastor also sits with you and listens to you.

Unpacks the things going on in your heart doesn't just teach doesn't condemn you but convicts you of what God's Word says If all of a sudden now we start looking at the protector Well all four of us men that are manly men in cultural way We're gonna protect if we walk into our house and there's somebody standing there with a nine millimeter pointed at us We're going into fight mode, right? We're all ready to go. We're masculine men. We're trained up We're ready for this battle. But what happens when our daughter comes to us?

Dad, I'm struggling with this boy that's bullying me at school. Well, I'm called to be a protector. Immediately. I'm going to go to, let's go get that young man. Let's fight him. Let's talk to his parents. No, no, no. I've got a responsibility to protect her mind, to tell her what God says about her. Here's your identity. You are wonderfully chosen. That God thinks about you more times than there are saying that sand, grains of sand that there are in this earth. Like Psalm one 39, I'm going to read over, over her over and over and over so that she knows

She's wonderfully chosen. Her identity is not in what a voice says about her, but what God says about her. Then we go to the provider piece, all successful men. Back to the performance piece. We know how to make money. Give me a job to go do. Let's go figure it out. I'll provide for my family. Great, but I gotta provide stability because when my wife's struggling, my kids are struggling, I need stability in all that I do. I need to be the man that doesn't escalate to the top like Kyle was describing. We know how to fight. We're gonna fight until we win, but.

How do I provide stability across all of that? When it's an emotional conversation, my daughter, my son, my wife, my friends are getting the same version of me through everything that I do because I'm stable in all areas of my life because I'm standing on solid ground, God's word, not shifting sand of this world. Great discussion. Toxic masculinity is something that you just used, JD, and I had never heard that term.

Chad (26:57.914)
Does it exist? Toxic masculinity. When I first heard that term, I'll be honest gentlemen, again these are my spiritual leaders, I'm just here for the proof, but I thought that's a contradiction in terms. What are you talking about? So what are your thoughts on toxic masculinity? Does it exist?

JD (26:59.811)
Hehehe

JD (27:15.724)
Yeah.

Chad (27:23.066)
Is it a name that's been made up by those who are trying to attack masculinity? To me, that's what it is. Or is it truly a vulnerability that men have?

JD?

JD (27:35.95)
All right. Well, so well, so I was I think it's important to define a word, right. And there's a lot of definitions about masculinity, depending on how woke the person providing that is. But I kind of like this one. I don't know that it's best, but it's out of Merriam's dictionary. And it's masculinity defined the quality or nature of the male sex, the quality state.

Chad (27:37.674)
Here we go.

JD (28:04.67)
or degree of being masculine or manly. So, you know, what are the attributes, biblical attributes of masculinity? Well, I think it's a lot like Kevin said, it's this pastor, protector, provider. For me, where I have been the last probably seven years,

I think that the chief role of a man on the earth is to number one, understand who God says he is, and then to walk that out. And we do it very poorly, at least I do, a lot of the time. But in that, then the chief role, walking out our identity, is to engage in spiritual warfare. And so...

Depending upon your spiritual background, there's all colors of the spectrum. There's people who are leaning towards cessationism, which means that you're not gonna see deliverance and the miracles and signs and wonders. And then you've got the people that are, you know, jumping in a ring with a bunch of venomous snakes just asking to get bitten, right?

And there's all degrees in the middle, but, you know, I have had experience of seeing the demonic manifest in somebody. I'm not really ready to share in this forum what he said about my wife and my soon to be youngest child. But I recognized in that moment that this wasn't play, right?

And so I've got adult children, and I think Kevin touched on it a minute ago, and I'll get to toxic masculinity, but the one thing I know that I can do is I can cover them in prayer. I can implore and I can ask the Lord to bind anything that is not of Him and to lose His Holy Spirit over my children.

JD (30:33.466)
And I will tell you, since the election and COVID and all of these triggering words, if I did not have the blessed assurance of being able to exercise a spiritual, masculine expression, if I didn't have the ability to operate in that level, even imperfectly, I don't know, I might've fallen into a bottle or...

you know, or did something stupid. So is toxic masculinity a real thing? All I know is that it's a word that somebody invented that was circulating in the atmosphere that dropped into somebody's head that like, that sounds like a good way to make men our enemy. That sounds like another great way to attack the man and demoralize the men and bring them back down a rung and get young men.

not wanting to step up and being be authentically masculine and love and lead and provide and protect and pastor and all these things. So I don't know if it's real or not but it's kind of like BLM. I mean it's a word but it created an opportunity for people to believe a certain way right and then act out on those beliefs. It was like the catalyst if you will.

to point at something and go, oh, I can demonize that. Whatever I see in man that I don't like. So sorry to get on a rant, but that's, I landed the plane, I hope.

Chad (32:10.794)
Yeah. Gotcha. You guys have your thoughts on toxic masculinity? Go ahead. Yeah, I would agree with everything JD said. I think the word toxic, it's a marketing ploy, right? It's a way to get all of us on board with something that is negative. You could call it, you could call it a

If we were to give a title to that, it would be a non-God following man. Would be the same thing. We live in a toxic culture. Sin is toxic. That's what it is. It's missing the mark. We live in a fallen world.

And when you can give a brand name to something that people get on board with, you're going to stand behind it. But at the end of the day, what it is you've got a man that is not following God's plan for the way that he designed men and a woman that's not following the plan for the way that God designed women to be. And I think marriage plays a huge role in this. I mean, your first question, how did we get here?

Why is it so bad right now? Look at the last 30 years of marriages being under attack. Divorce rates climbing, you look at the...

the demographic of who's divorcing the most and at the fastest rate right now. It's abnormal to be married for 28 years like I have been. Yeah, but abnormal. But your generation is the one that's driving the numbers of baby boomers now because why? Well, we say- I'm not a baby boomer. Yeah, you're a little bit ahead. But baby boomers are the ones that are divorcing at the fastest rate. Why? Because we stayed married for the kids.

Chad (33:44.31)
Kids are out of the house now. Lifestyle set up to where they've got one house, one can go another direction. To Kyle's point, same with you. I grew up in a house where both my parents were married. My dad has since passed until my parents were married, until my dad passed. But hard work.

showed up, would come home from work, dinner would be ready, my mom would have it ready, we'd sit around and watch TV, hang out as a family, but there wasn't this piece of like, how does God see us as husbands and wives and fathers? So I think it's just a, to answer the question specifically, it's a marketing term. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah, Kevin, I, and JD, I agree. It is, there's been other words.

that have done this as well, they just come up with these words or they glorify certain things and they just meaning the world, the marketplace, the media, etc. But in my world, in my industry, we were glorifying dad bod. It was something to wear. Now, will you tell me what dad bod is? Because I think I am dad bod.

You are a rock star. You are not a dad bod. Okay. Okay, so glorified dad bod to me is a physical I'm a pear so, you know, so Let's get this straight dad bod by definition is more than just the physical look of somebody there There was a way that you would glorify Not exercising that you would glorify being out of shape that you would glorify being unhealthy and somehow

Millions of dollars spent by analyzer Bush on television. And somehow celebrating that unhealthiness and celebrating that weakness, which is along the lines of toxic masculinity. I mean, not to go to the left or just go off course here, but even the word assault rifle, where did that come from? They just created these words to make it sound worse than it is or to give it a different.

JD (35:25.902)
That's right.

Chad (35:50.81)
meaning. So in regards to toxic masculinity, just saying that those two together, a really bad word and a really, really good God-given thing, masculine masculinity, the protector, the provider, what God designed men to be, it's a very powerful meaning to me. It's something of honor. It's a blessing to be on this planet alone, but having those two words put together.

definitely something that's from the enemy to break down man. Yeah.

JD (36:25.046)
If I may, I'd like to for those people that might be listening to this or watching it that have been hurt by the church or by pastors or whatever. It's not lost on me, by the way, that toxic masculinity or an inauthentic. That's, I think, a better definition for me is an inauthentic expression of a man or how we should operate as a man.

I have a list of guys, well-known pastors who have fallen into sexual scandal. And so this is me as a believer, follower of Jesus, admitting that we have had, we've had people that have fallen, right? And operated outside of a pastoral protector, provider type of an environment. Ravi Zacharias. I love that guy's teaching. Bill Hybels.

Love that guy's teaching. Ted Haggard never sat under his teaching, but his New Life Church, he was a founder. It was in Colorado Springs. I had a lot of youth go. I used to be a youth pastor. Their families used to go. I think they had 15,000 on a Sunday. He was having a gay relationship with a prostitute, a male prostitute in Denver, and doing meth, and just fell horribly.

Chad (37:25.878)
Yep.

JD (37:54.43)
Mike Bickle, a guy that was the founder of IHOP out of Kansas City. I don't, it's unsubstantiated, but I think he stepped down. Um, and, and then a guy that I'm, I'm anxious to see if I'm going to push any buttons here, cause I don't know Kyle and Kevin well yet, but a guy that if I would have found 15 years ago, I probably would have followed him hardcore. Um, but a guy named Mark Driscoll.

That guy, if you research his past in Mars Hill in Seattle, Washington, it was just a major implosion. And I think in analyzing these guys, I'm taking it to it and I'll tie it up, but what is the problem? Well, I think that man's nature, what we wanna do is we wanna elevate leaders. And oftentimes these pastoral,

behind the pulpit teacher face of the ministry attracts somebody who has a propensity to operate as a narcissist. So they're comfortable, they're comfortable with the accolades and the attention and being in front of the camera and everything. And what have they done? If you listen to a podcast called The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, it's seven or nine episodes. I don't know if you guys have ever listened to it.

It's fantastic and it talks about all of these guys. Mark Driscoll systematically began eliminating men who had known him for 10, 15 years, who were his close elders. And so I think Kevin touched on it, Kyle touched on it. What do we need? We need a community of men, small or not small, that we actually get to see operating

Chad (39:33.75)
Yeah.

Chad (39:43.647)
Yeah.

JD (39:49.79)
in an authentic masculine way who is going to screw up like Peter and cut the ear off. But then he's going to have a heart of Lord forgive me. Right. Maybe it didn't happen right then. But when he repented three times and the same as a rooster crows and so rooster crows. So like this is this is no bullshit. This, this whole battle that we're in is taking men out. It's taken them out. And for us to

Pretend like this is some soft, feeling good, like journey that we're on as Christ followers. We're deceiving ourselves. And I know that none of you are in that boat, but I just wanna encourage guys, if you're listening to this, like, and you cross the line and say, yeah, I wanna follow Jesus, like be aware of what you're signing up for. And I believe right now that the heat is intensifying. Like it's separating the wheat from the chaff. And the Lord is allowing

these things, these atrocities, and we haven't even talked about the Catholic Church, right, on purpose. I'm a Protestant. I didn't bring up anything about the Catholic Church. I'm talking about Protestants here. But I mean, we need men to rise up inside the worship center model to hold our men that are in the front accountable, to encourage them to come alongside of them. So, little bit of a rant there, but I, yeah.

Chad (41:13.546)
I don't know. It's a nice rant. I'm going to shut you off. It's a nice rant. Well, one of the things I'm just sitting here thinking, you know, one of my tag lines this podcast, maybe you guys know, maybe you don't, is that we all are hypocrites and we all have our demons and no one is exempt from sin, ladies and gentlemen. I don't care if you're a priest. I don't care if you're a pastor. I don't care if it's a gentleman here. I know. I mean, we all know that Sam's not exempt from sin.

Um, that's why big guy who I refer to as God big guy sent his only son To save us. Yep. Yes, and so ultimately it comes back to Jesus, right? Yep. Simple. It's really not that hard Yeah, can I add to that please? Savior is one component of it, but lord is the other one So he is my lord and savior and what I mean by that is yes He saves all of us and has the ability to save every man every woman all of us, right?

JD (41:55.207)
That's right.

Chad (42:11.55)
But when we look at him as our Lord, now we're starting to live a different lifestyle. And you're exactly, like I'm not perfect, I still sin. I still blow it, I still miss the mark. Every single day. Exactly. And that's why God's work, I know for me specifically, like in our church, our leadership team, our pastoral staff, ingrains this in us. The number one rule for our church is to be self-fed. Get to know God on your own by spending time in God's work.

JD (42:37.794)
Mm.

Chad (42:41.01)
I don't want a regurgitated message from a pastor, Mark Driscoll. I loved Ravi Zacharias. I absolutely love his teachings. I think he's one of the most phenomenal Bible teachers and the theologians that we've ever had. And it wasn't until after the dude passes that we learn about the sin that's in his life. And that comes down to the small group. We should, our church should never be bigger than more than four to eight, four to 12 people. We need to get ingrained in these small groups.

JD (42:46.38)
Yeah.

Chad (43:10.178)
to where I've got accountability. This guy to my left is in my small group. We're in it with our pastor. It's a little more personal, doesn't it? We share the junk going on in our lives to hold somebody, confess our sins to one another, not just to the Lord, but now I've got somebody to come along and find me that says, hey dude, I see you looking at that gal a different way. Are you good? Is everything okay? Hey man, haven't seen you at the gym for a few weeks. How's life? How's your soul?

because that's what I care about. Like the relationships are great, but I've got a small group of guys that when stuff is hitting the fan, I'm gonna call them and they're gonna tell me what I need to hear, not what I wanna hear. And that's where things start to change in our lives. So Lord and Savior, surround yourself, be ingrained in God's word. For me, two days out of God's word, I'm a disaster. I'm looking at chips the wrong way. I'm thinking about how I can make more money.

how I can take care of my family in the way of providing things for them, materialistic things, not, okay, how's your heart? So, my two cents. I wanna jump on that too, and that's something that I lived out. I knew him, but I didn't know him. People talked about having a relationship with Jesus. I didn't have a relationship. I didn't know what that meant.

I believe that he was up there. I just, I didn't follow him. I was a believer. I wasn't a follower type deal. And the, uh, Kevin and I, we ended up, we do go to the same church and it's, uh, it's love church and they've done such an incredible job, not only in regards to a definition of what a true man is in a marriage, but also as a leader, um, what that looks like to be self fed.

the disciplines that come with that, which I absolutely love because the disciplines that I needed for my fitness actually paralleled to what I needed for my faith journey, except for a little bit more open heart vulnerability. And I mean, the way that it's changed my leadership from being self-fed on a daily basis to go is right into my marriage as a husband to my leader.

Chad (45:20.67)
my leadership as a business owner, my fatherhood, and I mean, it even talks about it in Deuteronomy 6 to where you read about this every day, but you're spreading it daily throughout your family. You're putting it on your walls. You're talking about it to your children on a daily basis before you go to bed, et cetera, et cetera. And it just continues to fill me up. It's that, it's called the good news for a reason.

And if, like I'm with Kevin, if I miss two or three days, it gets a little bit gnarly, I get a little bit more snippy, a little bit more testy, a little bit less patient, if you will, and Macy can attest to that, my wife. But more than anything- You become toxic. Yeah, I become toxic. But more than anything, man, it's, this is, I mean, I didn't ever experience that for 35 years of my life.

But the second I surrounded myself with what I would say is real godly men. I keep going back to it, but it was a life changer. And as soon as I saw the real importance of what being a man meant. Okay. Because I love my dad. I have a great relationship now. He just wasn't around when I was really turning that corner from boy to man. And then all of a sudden move out of the house. And you know what they say is as soon as the child.

moves out of the house. Well, while they're in the house with us, my children, I'll have about 90% influence on their life. But then as soon as they leave the house, I get about 10% influence on the rest of their life. I don't have kids, you all have kids, but I think it's, after they hit about 12, if you haven't got them by now, they're gone. Am I wrong? No. Well, you're not right.

You're not right, but you're not wrong. Yeah. But I don't... JD, do you have children? How old are your children?

JD (47:15.383)
Hahaha!

JD (47:21.59)
I do have a 22 year old son, an almost 20 year old daughter that's at UT in Austin, and then I have a 13 year old girl. So I will confess, everything I knew about being a good parent, I realize I don't know a dang thing. Because raising adult children when they leave the home, it's a whole new ballgame, fellas.

Chad (47:45.834)
I don't have kids, I think you just let them go. Yep. We've got to. Don't see that, here he comes. I don't see that in society. I see kids that are 23, 25, 27 living at home. How do you become a man? Yeah, I think it's different with boys and girls from my perspective. Our son, we've got a 25 and.

JD (47:49.834)
Yeah, but you're the guy, you're the guy that grew up.

JD (48:05.943)
Yeah.

Chad (48:15.294)
One of the cool things about our story is I've only been following the Lord for eight years now. And it was a terrible season that we were in when I made that decision. I won't go into that story today, but 25 year old daughter, uh, 16 year old daughter and an eight year old son. So yeah. And you see that the eight year old son, so, or excuse me, 12 year old son, 12 year old son, um, he was four when we were separated and then came back together. And I decided to surrender my life to the Lord.

The way that we've raised those three kids is substantially different. Not following the Lord with a 25 year old daughter in the middle of it with a 16 year old daughter, and then a 12 year old son who, for 75% of his life, we've been underneath the Lord and savior is the leader of our home. And for our son, the rule is at 18, bro, you're moving out. You've got to start figuring this out on your own. But our daughter, she said the other day, I'm like, for my daughter, I'm not going to kick my daughter to the streets.

I will at a certain age, our 25 year old is now out of the house and she has to figure it out on her own. Yeah. So I think it's different from my perspective with a boy and a girl, but also the prodigal son, like I always want to have a spot for them to come home, but you can't live in my house after a certain age. You've got to figure this thing out called adulthood, adulthood. And we hope that we've raised them up in the right way where they're going to get it figured out. But that's 20 years to take a stab at it. Exactly. I don't.

JD (49:39.662)
How are your kids?

Chad (49:40.69)
I'm the biggest hypocrite again. I don't have kids. So what do I know? I don't know anything. I'm just observing. It's the importance of two parents in the home, man. You think about what we've been talking about this whole time. Like you look at the word given in Genesis and then in the New Testament as well. We're given a helper. That's who God gives Adam, a helper to walk alongside him because you can't do life on your own. Then you go to John where we get the Holy Spirit, which the word that they use as advocate

It's the same word. So we get a wife to help us with this, but in order for me to be the best husband that I have to be the best man that I can be, I'm required to use the Holy Spirit, which I've been given as well, since I've been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Helper.

JD (50:25.538)
How old are your kids, Kyle?

Chad (50:28.202)
Let's see here, 12, I've got a daughter that's 12 and 10 is my son. So I'm right, I'm right in the thick of it, buddy.

JD (50:32.782)
Cool. Those are fun ages.

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Chad (50:41.286)
Um, I'm going to shift gears here a little bit. Uh, what are your guys' thoughts on this pronoun business? What's going on?

I mean, kids are taught. Kyle, you took your kids out of school, didn't you? You're in high school, right? For middle school, my daughter, Kennedy. It was a move that we prayed on quite a bit and navigated through a lot of the decisions and also included her on it. We asked her to pray on it and it was a family decision and it was gonna take some sacrifice. It probably had nothing to do with pronouns, but I don't know. I think in Omaha, I think I...

Are they teaching that in schools? I don't have kids but are we teaching this JD out there in Texas even in Texas? Are they teaching that you know, you can't call your female friend in class She or her?

JD (51:36.168)
I don't know if they're teaching it that...

Chad (51:41.186)
Are they teaching that here? Our kids are in the Gretna School District. They just built a new school there. And for the first time, it's a brand new high school. They have one bathroom that is called the transgender bathroom. Is it part of the curriculum? No, but it's essentially a family restroom. But they're calling it a unisex, I think would be a good way to put it. But if you go to the marketing piece, to encapsulate everybody, it's called the transgender restroom.

So it's not part of the curriculum yet, thank the Lord. I would say Gretna's pretty conservative on that side. Omaha schools might be a little bit different, but the whole pronoun thing, it just comes down to, again, it's an identity issue. They just don't know who they are. There's confusion. And JD said it, man, forgive the church if they've done anything to help create this, but it really comes down to knowing who God says that you are. There's male and there's female. That's it.

JD (52:37.839)
I hate to take up so much air time, but seven years ago, identity became just this concept of identity, who God says we are, and where the lines get mixed up. I really do think that if the enemy, and I believe there's an enemy of our soul, and

JD (53:06.402)
get our children or now adults even confused about their sexual identity at the very basic level. We all laugh about it, right? Because we're old school dudes and, you know, your brother, Sam and I, you know, he's like, it's simple. You stand it up to go. You're a boy. If you sit, you know, it's like, that's like, what is so hard about this? And, but, but the sad news is

Chad (53:27.938)
So, yeah. I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

JD (53:32.878)
There's this idea, it's an idea, and people partner with these ideas, and I believe it's a lie. And when you believe a lie, then you begin acting out in it. And if you can be confused at what gender you are, you are fair game. All bets are off. I mean, for real. Like, you can be convinced that the sky's...

Chad (53:54.071)
Yes, sir.

JD (53:58.494)
upside down and the earth is flat and some people think it is even believers that I know well and like you can believe that the federal government is here to help and that our health care is here to help and I mean like I mean just think about it we just we haven't been allowed or been given the encouragement to have a unique thought you know these young kids and

Chad (54:10.992)
Thank you.

JD (54:25.214)
And it's convicting to me, you wanna talk about being vulnerable? My son, who I raised and I spoke identity over him since he was a little boy, he is spending time with a young lady who is a wonderful person, she's a wonderful human, and he's gotten surrounded himself with a lot of these young 20-somethings that feel like it's their obligation.

to honor somebody by calling them they them and not he she. And so it's, and they feel like, I believe he would say if he was on this podcast, like it's his way to honor how they see themselves or how they want to be perceived in the world. And it's not based on truth, it's their sovereignty or their individuality. And so the depths of this lie

that has been believed and perpetrated on the earth. Like it's nasty. I mean, we all know that it's like super nasty. And to just say, yes, there's transgender bathrooms in the state of Texas. We had one heck of a fight at the school board. They were trying to push that. They're building a new middle school here. I was just trying to remember I had a dad. Oh, it was back in Colorado. So we have a wonderful governor in Colorado. I lived there 21 years, right? You know about him.

Jared Polis, and thank God I moved before he took over. But, you know, my buddy's grandson is, I think, a kindergartener, first grader, and he got sent to the principal's office because there was a girl that identifies as a they, them, or identifies as a boy, and he called her she. And grandpa, first grade, yeah.

Chad (56:15.794)
Age? Age again? Six years old? That's great. Six years old.

JD (56:22.442)
And Grandpa Jason, my buddy, he's just like, if that ever happens again, if they're telling you that you can't call her that, heads are gonna roll. Grandpa's coming to the school. And so, now that to me is a manifestation, a representation of the masculine nature of God. For a man, a grandpa, to walk in there with authority to say, oh hell no.

You're not pushing this on my grandson. And to the extent, maybe Kyle, where they pull him out and exercise their own sovereignty, but unfortunately, a lot of families don't have that luxury. They've got both spouses are working and it's, it's multifaceted, right? It's a problem.

Chad (57:17.466)
Hang the adjunct before I move on from pronouns. You know.

We've got multiple different issues going on in this world. And whether it's alcoholism, whether it's depression, whether it's anxiety, whether it's porn addiction, which is an insane industry. And again, this is another, it goes down to

a challenge of identity, of course, where, you know, it's we have to know who we are, you know, children of God, and then we have to know why we're here, wanting to spread the word spread the love of God spread the knowledge and wisdom of God. And then once we have that, and we are understood of who we are, then we know where we're going. And, and the kingdom of heaven is a big part of that ultimate resting place for us, but

There are so many children that are struggling and hurt and lost and can and um just needing something some identity some place some love somewhere and it breaks my heart to have so many

so many people have providing the wrong information or the wrong allowance or there's so many different scenarios on this and it definitely has the enemy written all over it. But it's not something that needs to be. And this is not what I'm saying this group is doing in here, but there are, there's a lot of condemnation for these people. These are people that are in pain. These are people that are,

Chad (59:11.426)
wrongly led to be confused in a way to where they're hurting and they're trying to find something to belong to. And unfortunately, I don't know if it's, I know that it's not the right thing, but this is also a, it's a very, it's easy to talk about so quickly and to just shoot some words out and some definitions. But

there's a lot of complexity to this. And as soon as we can get it grasp our hands on what these children and these and these, uh, um, mentally struggling individuals are going through, which is a true thing. It's a true sickness. It's, it's just as much as having coronary heart disease as it is to truly have a mental illness. Yes. And that's where, that's the difference maker between probably the last

I mean, five years, the mental illness has just skyrocketed and COVID had a lot to do with that. Oh, absolutely. So those mental health workers being on the front lines, they are drowning. They're doing everything that they can. But I think that the one thing that we can do just in here is one, we can one, make sure our own home is where it needs to be. Make sure our own faith is rock solid.

and then do the best that we can to represent God every single day. Going to the cross every single day because I'm not perfect and I screw up on a daily basis. And I struggle with sin on a daily basis. That's truly what it is. Anybody on this podcast who doesn't are going to get deep booted right now. Of course we do. This is something that I feel...

JD (01:00:58.39)
Hehehe

Chad (01:01:02.934)
that any individual that does know their identity and that is confident in their relationship with the Lord, that they don't sit behind their desk or their walls and just stay safe. We need to go out into this world. We need to go out into the community and help them to find a way to be their form. Because as soon as we start seeing these, being these crusty Christians, where we're kind of...

walking around with our nose up, which is something that I was at one point. But I was like looking at their speck in the eye and I had a log in my own. Yep. I was more lost than they were. They were all hypocrites. So what kind of compassion? Well, we know what kind of compassion, but let's just talk about the compassion of Christ. But what do you, what kind of, you know, if, if Jesus was to come back and talk to a child.

JD (01:01:38.23)
Yeah.

Chad (01:02:01.326)
And we're talking about guys, I mean this is serious stuff. 7, 8, 9 years old. They've decided they're not... That they want to change their gender.

What would Jesus say?

Chad (01:02:18.23)
that he loves them. Yeah. I think he's so good at meeting people right where they're at and, and being open. We, we tend as culture to respond in the way that what we've known of the past. So to Kyle's point and JD of grandpa, right? Like, I'm going to show up and I'm going to, I'm going to put authority into this conversation. Great. But I want to hear, I want to listen to learn and respond with love. Help me understand.

how we got here. Help me understand young, young boy, young girl, young, call them their pronoun. If that's what they want, let's meet you where you're at and you're welcome. Jesus would welcome anybody. And if you're in a church that, that doesn't welcome those people, you're in the wrong place. Now, where that gets sticky is welcome them, but don't shy away from the truth and stand firm in what God says about that and work with those people. But to Kyle's point,

It's no different than alcoholism. It's sin. So if an alcoholic shows up at my church and wants help, breaking the addiction, seeing freedom is what JD said, right out of the gate. If you want freedom from this, Jesus Christ is willing to give you that freedom and he's gonna cast that sin as far as the east is from the west, but you have to follow his plan. So the solution to that and where Jesus shows up is, I'm going to walk with you.

You don't have to carry this on your own. I'll carry this for you, but you have to trust me. And when you fall short again, guess what? His hand is there to pick you back up. No condemnation, but conviction of what the Holy Spirit says. Let's learn to do this the right way, and I'm gonna walk with you. And I'm gonna teach you how to do it. So.

Yeah.

Chad (01:04:06.966)
Kyle, JD, anything else on that? I've had it JD. Heavy stuff.

JD (01:04:09.294)
Kyle, do you have anything?

JD (01:04:14.567)
Have y'all watched The Chosen, the movie? So one of my favorite scenes, you should check it out, Sam, is...

Chad (01:04:17.291)
Yes, why not?

Chad (01:04:24.402)
Our recent show, The Heaven One. Oh, yeah. Frickin' Life After Death? I cried on that one too, by the way. That's insane. The Chosen is actually in the theaters come February of season four, the first two episodes. Oh, I'll look, I'll go. Yeah, take away fun and that's a fun day. Date night. Yeah, there you go.

JD (01:04:33.077)
Nice.

JD (01:04:42.922)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's a scene in there, and I can't remember which season and which episode, but Mary Magdalene had been hanging out with Jesus and the disciples, and she, like a dog going back to their vomit, like we've all probably done, she went back to a past life and was at the bar and where she had been a prostitute and stuff. And so...

you know, anybody who has lived a life that you're less than proud of, which I have, you, like I could see myself in her. And I was never a prostitute, but I mean, she came out of that bar and Jesus went to go find her. And of course, it's a movie and everything, but I thought they did just a fantastic job.

Because when you ask, what would Jesus say? I don't know that he had to say anything. He said her name, that is one thing he did say, and it wasn't the name that she went by in the brothel. And she looked into his eyes, and he called her by name. And I think that it wrecked her in the most beautiful way. His words and his eyes.

pierced her heart and she was never the same again. And that's what I think Jesus would do. And I think that to a measure, we are all called to carry that anointing. I was just reading in Ephesians this morning and in Ephesians two, it says that when you are, that we are in Christ, those of us who've accepted Jesus, we're in Christ and in Ephesians one, before that, why is that important? It's because when we're in Him,

were seated at the right hand of the Father in a position of authority above all principalities and powers and rulers of darkness and spiritual forces of evil. Not in my own strength, but in Christ's indwelling presence in me, I get to be a partaker of sitting in heavenly places with Him in a position of authority and for what purpose? To bring heaven to earth like...

JD (01:07:05.762)
the prayer, how He taught us to pray, our Father who art in heaven, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So, He gives us Holy Spirit. He gives us a seat, and we're in Him, and that we get to carry out His love on the earth. And to the measure by which I get to do that, and I get to see you guys do that, and other people that I love in my life, female and male,

It's like the most blessed, encouraging, life-giving thing because it's God's life, right? Being manifest through a faultful human for the betterment of somebody else's life. And I get jacked up about that. So I think that's what Jesus would do. And I think that you and I, we have that opportunity to do the same if we're in Him. Do you guys agree or disagree?

Chad (01:08:04.362)
100% the part of that was so attractive to me of what you just described and I think is so cool with Mary and all of us right like the only reason that she knew that he called her name was because she knew his voice. The only thing we know his voice is if we sit with him if I go into an open crowd and yell out somebody's name if they don't know my voice because it's their name they may look but they're not going to know my voice so we've got to know God's voice and the only way we can do that is by allowing him to live inside of us and spending time with him.

JD (01:08:16.749)
Yeah.

JD (01:08:33.322)
Yeah. Also, and also, yes, in the movie, though, she hadn't been called that since she was a little girl by her father. And so she was separated from her father, I think. And and then she was given a different name. And then she went into this whole life that she wasn't proud of. And so, yes, hearing Jesus, but also, that's my name. That's my name, you know.

Chad (01:08:35.499)
Thanks.

Chad (01:08:42.955)
Thank you.

Chad (01:09:03.166)
Guys, I think this panel thing is doing pretty well. I'm gonna have to do this for some other guests. You gotta go see The Chosen. I will, I will see The Chosen. You can show it with season one, it's streaming, it's fine. Okay, absolutely will, absolutely will. Yeah, like Sid, what's the name of that? The Heaven and Heaven, or Life After Death? Life After Death. Also folks, you haven't seen that, oh my goodness. Pretty self of all true test enemies. We talk about heaven here a lot, we haven't talked about heaven today. Well, can we talk about heaven for a second? Heck yeah. I mean.

JD (01:09:12.471)
Yeah, yeah.

Chad (01:09:32.13)
I am so freaking jazzed up about heaven you wouldn't believe it. I just think it's beyond any of our wildest dreams. It's something that I think about on a daily basis to be honest with you. I mean I don't want to die I'm not planning on checking out. Kyle's working me every day so I don't check out.

JD (01:09:35.414)
Hehehe

Chad (01:09:56.894)
Let's check out a couple times this week. But, um, you're doing great. Uh, I just think it's such an incredible promise. As a Christian to know that Jesus is carrying every single scar I've ever, I've incurred on myself or others. And to know that I'm going to go to a place and be reunited with loved ones. I mean, that's incredible. Um,

JD (01:09:58.226)
Hehehe

JD (01:10:22.101)
Mm.

Yeah.

Chad (01:10:27.178)
You guys want to share about that at all? I mean, I'm with you, man. I cannot wait for the Golden Roads, man. The mansion, what we have in store for us up there. I'm with you though. You know the best part about it is they're not talking about pronouns in heaven. They're not talking about Facebook likes in heaven. Man, it's worship, baby. They're not talking about Trump versus Biden in heaven. They're not, you know, they're not talking about the crap that you see on the nightly news in heaven. No, but...

JD (01:10:42.51)
That's right.

JD (01:10:49.614)
That's right.

JD (01:10:55.214)
Thank you.

Chad (01:10:56.042)
In order to have heaven, you have to believe in it. You've also got hell. And that's what scares me the most is just in, in really fuels my fire to go out and see more men understand the importance of salvation because there's also a group of people, in fact, a wider group of people that aren't going to get to experience this thing that we're describing right now, the road is narrow to heaven, right? The gates are wide to hell. And the fact that there's going to be this

the separation of what people are going to see and how we're going to see. I can't wait to go, but it breaks my heart for those that haven't been able to fully surrender their life yet. It may be the narrows past narrow, but it's not that hard to get on.

No, you just got to submit, man. You got to submit and you've got to allow Jesus Christ to come alive, come alive inside of you and repent of your sins and choose to make a difference in this world. And that's why I love being with guys like you that are saying yes. And, um, it's a, it's an awesome opportunity, but to your point, I'm not trying to get there today. No, I want to live my best life now and to the Lord's prayer. I want to bring heaven here so that more experience what God has in store for us while we're here, make this world a better place.

JD (01:11:57.858)
That's right.

Chad (01:12:03.314)
and see more of our friends and family there because of the work that we've done in people to see the reflection of Jesus through our lives. Yeah, that movie that you mentioned, Sam, Life After Death. Life After Death, that's the name of it, yes. They did one of the best jobs depicting of what it would look like to go to the gates of judgment, to the gates of heaven. They mentioned how you get to that.

place and you become overwhelmed by emotion just by even the presence of Jesus Christ at that point in time. But they, if you haven't seen the movie, it's an excellent movie based off of hundreds of thousands of testimonies, but then also... It's cowboy versus egghead. There's a lot of eggheads on there. The eggheads that were not believers from a science standpoint, this is impossible. Very critical point. And they just absolutely just like, well...

They turn those guys around. Yes, and just the artwork and the cinematography that they presented of what it even looks like in the Kingdom of Heaven. Obviously, it probably doesn't even do it justice. I think it's... I talked to my friend, Father Ryan Lewis, and to me, it's like we see in three dimensions, it's beyond that. It's like different colors. The colors that they talk about. I just...

They can't even describe it. These folks can't even describe what they saw. They tried but they are not human words for heaven. I want to go there. We've been doing this thing around the family where I've been asking, we've been asking each other, you know, when you see Jesus for the first time, you know, what's your first question for him? And it's, you can, you know, you bring, you bring to, you know,

like you know there's a few questions that go around and it's like you know how did I do you know um or you know um what we what did you what were you thinking when you allowed me to screw up like that you know they're just little fun questions and well why do guys have nipples that's a good you know it's why do you say I had this one the other day why do you say ouch when you're hurt you might as well it's such an arbitrary word why don't you say orange

JD (01:14:11.726)
Hehehe

HAHAHAHA

Chad (01:14:28.434)
But that's to go back to Kevin, I'm a very goal oriented person, which is a good thing for me and not so good thing. But I love to know the rules so then I can do the best that I can on them. And one of the most effective rules that I found out was that I am not perfect. I'm going to screw up every single day. So I need to go to the cross every single day. And as soon as I figured that out.

I was like, okay, not in a prideful way, but it was like, okay, now I kind of, I am imperfect. So I've got that realized, but then with Jesus, I can be perfect. And, um, that's, that's helped me out a ton. So I'm, I'm very excited about that. I didn't know the, I didn't know the questions to ask myself back, um, before I was saved, before I gave my life to Christ, I didn't know who I was in God's eyes. I didn't know where I was going. I was hoping for heaven because I keep talking about it.

I just didn't know how to get there, but it is a narrow path and it isn't hard, but it's not easy either No on these topics that we talked about today. That's the one thing and I realized too is None of these solutions are easy it's all about taking the hard road. It's the hard way out man It's the heart you have to work at it Yeah, but one the one thing that just keeps coming up is Matthew 6 33 where we just seek the kingdom of God

Um, live righteously and then he will give us everything that we need. So, and I truly trust that I believe if at the very beginning of Genesis one, um, if those words were true, then I can believe everything. I, I need to believe everything else. I get to believe everything else in the Bible, every single word, every single word, truly deeply. So I think what you're describing, talking about heaven and hell.

Like I don't know your whole demographic of your audience, but I think it would be important for us. They look like us. Okay, well, most of them then. That's right, baby. Just one baby. Most of them probably know this, but the Bible was also very clear that you have to make that outward proclamation that you wanna follow Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. So if there's listeners that don't know what that looks like to be able to have the opportunity to meet Jesus face to face, reach out. Well, we actually legitimately have listeners in.

JD (01:16:27.106)
Good luck and rascals.

Chad (01:16:50.198)
think 43 countries. Yeah. So hit up Sam on whatever platform you use. Let's get those people connected because if they want to give their life to Jesus, man, I don't want to neglect the opportunity to help them make that decision because it's an important one. Yeah. JD, closing thoughts. Thanks for the top of the day.

JD (01:17:07.498)
Yeah, so I was just looking, this might be a cool way to close it for me is I have a friend named David Cook and he wrote the screenplay in the book, Seven Days in Utopia, the movie that, the golf movie maybe you guys have seen. And anyway, he's become a friend and he, the tie in with the University of Nebraska was

helping the coach and I was looking up his name, you guys would be able to know the very first national champion volleyball team that University of Nebraska had. What was that coach's name?

Chad (01:17:47.74)
Terry Bennett.

JD (01:17:49.37)
Uh, what's his first name? Perry with a P Terry. Okay. Terry. So anyway, uh, he got to, he got to just be there for Terry. And, and so there's, if, if you can find the story in his book, greatness, uh, you would really love it. I won't tell it here, but one of the things that he said recently in a, in a blog post, and this is what I was wanting to share.

Chad (01:17:50.846)
Harry Pettit. Tea with a...

JD (01:18:18.466)
but I wanted to tell you who he was, is that the first step of a million step journey of life, the first step is receiving, is coming to our deep need for a savior and recognizing that we need, that we're in a state where we've missed the mark. That's one of the best definitions of the word sin that I've been able to find in the Bible.

is that we've missed the mark of God. And the first step is what these guys are talking about, receiving the love of God through Jesus Christ, who he sent to atone. 999,999 steps later, all of those steps are receiving the love of God. And so the work, if you will, is in just being able to put on

the robe of righteousness to receive his love and walk it out and share it and be a conduit for his love, right? And so heaven, I don't know what it's going to be like, but there's going to be a bunch of people that have taken the first step and that are walking out the 999,000 and some odd steps in various different parts. And I think it's going to be amazing, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're not on our face just crying, holy.

Holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, you know?

Chad (01:19:53.378)
What? Yeah. A thousand voices singing a song. I mean, yeah. Just, yeah. Watch the sequence. It's incredible. Guys, I appreciate it. I am gonna do a shout out to these gentlemen. If you want to get a hold of Kyle, that's alright. Like, go to Knesset, crossfitkinesis.com and get a hold of Kyle there, right?

JD (01:19:58.763)
Yeah.

Chad (01:20:13.166)
Kyle Caspar on Instagram. Okay Kyle Caspar on Instagram. Kevin is reverence restored on Instagram and reverence restored.com. JD you are anotherlevelman.com right? Yep yep. Oh guys I appreciate it.

JD (01:20:27.123)
Anotherlevelman.com, yeah, or you just find me on Facebook. Yep.

Chad (01:20:38.295)
Weight's been lifted off my shoulders. Thanks guys.

JD (01:20:40.854)
Thank you, Sam. This was fun.

Chad (01:20:43.907)
We're gonna... let's see.

Chad (01:21:02.383)
That's what we're going to do. Do you need glasses? Almost. I'm going to go ahead and put my glasses on.