I Just Didn't Know Enough about Life to Be Afraid - with Special Guest Dorinda Moss Verhoff

In this engaging conversation, Sam Fischer interviews Dorinda Verhoff, a seasoned political operative, about her career journey, challenges faced, and insights gained along the way. They discuss the importance of mentorship, the impact of generational differences in the workplace, and the sacrifices made for career advancement. Dorinda shares her experiences in fundraising, transitioning to business development, and the realities of motherhood, all while reflecting on the lessons learned throughout her career.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Early Career
03:51 Defining Moments and Mentorship
10:03 Challenges and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
16:00 Adapting to Generational Differences in the Workplace
22:07 Work-Life Balance and Sacrifices
27:58 Finding Direction and Handling Setbacks
34:07 Transitioning from Politics to Business Development
39:57 Motherhood and Personal Life
45:59 Reflections on Career and Future Plans

Takeaways

• Dorinda's early career was shaped by mentorship and opportunities.
• Imposter syndrome was a significant challenge for Dorinda in her early years.
• Hard work and determination can lead to success in politics.
• Generational differences in the workplace require understanding and adaptation.
• Work-life balance is often sacrificed in the pursuit of career goals.
• Fear of failure can be a strong motivator for success.
• Transitioning from politics to business can offer new opportunities and challenges.
• Motherhood brings both joy and challenges, especially for older parents.
• Maintaining personal connections is crucial in a demanding career.
• Reflecting on past experiences can provide clarity for future decisions.

Available on YouTube:  https://youtu.be/Pns6UNCNMJY

Transcript

Sam  Fischer (00:02.559)
The story of my life and interesting people I know. Today I am very pleased to welcome a very interesting person that I have known along my life and it's been probably a decade since I've talked to her. Welcome to Cowboys Not Eggheads, Dorinda Verhoff, or Dorinda Moss Verhoff. I think it's been so long since I've talked to you, used to be a Moss. It's been a while, huh?

Dorinda Verhoff (00:24.078)
has been a while. I've been married 10 years.

Sam  Fischer (00:26.559)
There you go. I think it was 10 years ago. It was the last time I talked to you. That's insane. That's crazy. That's crazy. So the reason I had Dorinda on today is because Dorinda fascinated me. knew her very early in her career. do you mind telling me how old, how old you were when you went to the Republican national committee? You're 23. Yeah. were you? Okay. But it was one of your, your first job.

Dorinda Verhoff (00:30.99)
And it's kind of crazy. I don't know.

Dorinda Verhoff (00:47.886)
2001? no, I was 26.

Sam  Fischer (00:55.783)
was equivalent of my job and that was, you're the finance director of the Tennessee Republican Party, right?

Dorinda Verhoff (01:01.55)
I was 23 during that, when I started that job. When we worked together at the RNC, I was 26.

Sam  Fischer (01:03.835)
Okay. Okay.

Sam  Fischer (01:10.097)
Okay. But from a very, so I was, think.

34 or something. I think I've got eight years on you. from early age, Dorinda, from her early in her career, Dorinda was somebody that I just admired immediately. I think it's because of her determination and confidence and willingness to get things done quickly and efficiently. nowadays people that are in their 20s

don't operate that way, it seems. Maybe I'm wrong. There are some good ones, but, know, Dorinda never had to have a Bing bag that I'm aware of, right? you know, they have Bing bags for people now, for kids that are in their 20s. They have Bing bags and free food at these corporations and stuff. Yeah, you're not somebody that ever begged for a Bing bag that I'm aware of.

Dorinda Verhoff (01:58.656)
What's that? I don't know what that is.

Dorinda Verhoff (02:08.245)
right, right, right, yeah.

Sam  Fischer (02:14.847)
And, I just remember, Dorinda, we both started the RNC at the same time and immediately you were given a special assignment to go work on a congressional race. we won't mention it unless you want to, but, I just thought, man, I'm glad I, I'm glad I wasn't, you know, I had eight years experience on you I was like, man, I'm glad I wasn't put in that position.

And you were just ready fire aim, man, all the way. And did a really good job, bang up job and just somebody that I admired from afar. And then it's been a pleasure to watch you during your career. Dorinda is what I would describe as a national political operative who has held some very, very important and prestigious jobs at the national level.

talking about, you know, finance director for a presidential campaign, finance director for the national Republican senatorial committee. What am I missing, Dorinda? I mean, you've, you've some big jobs, right?

Dorinda Verhoff (03:21.865)
Those are those are probably the biggest.

Sam  Fischer (03:24.767)
Yeah. but, so just want to visit you with you today a little bit about, maybe give some of my younger listeners. I'm trying to get some younger listeners during that. Cause believe it not, my dem, my, my demographic is like 40 to 55 males. So anyway, we're trying to get off that track and try it. And so we're talking to my nieces and nephews today. They're I've got several of them in there they're in their twenties and,

Dorinda Verhoff (03:41.902)
Okay?

Sam  Fischer (03:51.807)
Just to talk a little talk a little just visit a little bit today about expectations of Folks when they start in the workforce and how they should approach it and all that good jazz so I Appreciate you joining. I think you're an expert at this field. So this is gonna be fun Are you ready to have some fun to renda? Okay, okay

Dorinda Verhoff (04:11.284)
Okay, I'm always up for fun.

Sam  Fischer (04:16.716)
Can you give me a defining moment in your 20s that you thought maybe determined your career path?

Dorinda Verhoff (04:29.985)
That's a really, that's a good question. I wouldn't say necessarily a moment, but certainly a person. Two people specifically. One, when I was in my very early 20s, my first job in politics was as an intern for Fred Thompson's reelection campaign to the Senate in 1996.

And the finance director on that campaign saw me sort of floundering trying to answer the phone at the front desk, which I was terrible at. And she brought me into her office and said, you know, what are you doing here? What do you want to do? And I was like, I'll do whatever you let me do. And she gave me a fundraising event to execute. She was like, it's easy.

most of the work's already done, I won't let you screw it up. And that was, gosh, almost 30 years ago. And I sort of took to it, and that was my career from then on.

Sam  Fischer (05:46.079)
So you kind of landed in the right place at the right time. Did you have any mentors early on that maybe helped you steer you a little bit?

Dorinda Verhoff (05:54.265)
Sure. This lady's name was Dina Beaumont. She was fantastic. And she really let me kind of run with a lot of projects that were way outside of my scope of experience.

I was there, I was available and I was willing and I wanted to learn. And so she taught me and she was really supportive and she made sure that I didn't screw up too badly. mean, that race was not exactly what I would consider competitive. So it wasn't like we had a ton to lose. But I really was able to kind of cut my teeth in a really significant way in a very safe space. And I'll always be grateful to her for that.

When we were working at the RNC together in the 02 cycle was Kelly Robertson, who was one of my RPDs and she really pushed me to pursue a job on the Bush re -election campaign and to move to Washington, which was something I did not want to do. I was very happy living my life in Tennessee. I loved my job at the RNC. It it's still the best job I've ever had.

Sam  Fischer (07:05.651)
It was a great gig, wasn't it? It's a fun job.

Dorinda Verhoff (07:10.773)
Don't tell my kids, like that, you know, it was a great job and I loved it. And at that time in my life, it was perfect for me. So, but she really pushed me to do that and I'm glad she did.

Sam  Fischer (07:12.802)
Ha

Sam  Fischer (07:19.155)
Yeah, when you left, when you left, because you weren't there that long, maybe a year, maybe, was it two? Okay. Okay, two years. When you left, it surprised me. And I thought, at the time in my career path, I thought,

Dorinda Verhoff (07:26.999)
No, two years. Two years to the day, actually, yeah.

Sam  Fischer (07:40.061)
She's got big kahunas. It's really what I thought. I, you know, again, it was one of those moments where I thought, Brenda's braver than I am. Where do you get your bravery from?

Dorinda Verhoff (07:55.987)
I don't know that it was brave necessarily. I think at that point in my life, my bravery just came from my naivete. I didn't know enough about life to be afraid of anything. And I knew that the people I was gonna be working with and for were gonna help me.

Sam  Fischer (08:15.199)
I love it.

Dorinda Verhoff (08:25.675)
I was in love with George W. Bush and I really felt like being a part of that organization was going to be good for me and good for the country. And so I took a pay cut and doubled my cost of living expenses and moved to DC.

Sam  Fischer (08:44.767)
See, and I didn't realize that you took a pay cut to do that. would have, had I known that, I would have talked you out of it.

Dorinda Verhoff (08:48.332)
significant pay cut.

Dorinda Verhoff (08:54.103)
Well, Kelly had to talk me into it. She really did because I was, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't know. Like I got a really good gig. I just got a raise. Like I was, you know, I was about to buy a house and I was like, you know, I don't, and I don't want to live in DC and.

Sam  Fischer (08:54.522)
And

I didn't know that story. That's interesting.

Sam  Fischer (09:11.645)
You didn't want to live in DC? That's the biggest thing that surprised me. For listeners, Dorinda is from Tennessee, right? I mean, and you're not an egghead, you're a cowgirl, right? I mean, you're...

Dorinda Verhoff (09:14.253)
Yeah, yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (09:19.699)
-huh.

Dorinda Verhoff (09:25.135)
I don't know about that. It's been a minute since I've been on a horse. But yeah, I mean, I didn't want to live here.

Sam  Fischer (09:27.807)
But that's your background. That's your background. didn't... DC looked very foreign to you and it surprised me. I remember thinking, I'm really surprised that she wants to live in DC.

Dorinda Verhoff (09:37.871)
Me too. I fully intended to come back. I was like, you know what, I'm going to finish this. I'm going to finish the campaign and I'll be right back in Nashville and go on about my merry way. But people kept giving me jobs. And so that was 21 years ago. And I'm sitting here in lovely Falls Church, Virginia, which is where I live now with my husband and my two kids.

Sam  Fischer (09:52.445)
Well, you were damn good at what you did. They didn't let you out. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (10:03.805)
Yeah. What was the biggest challenge you faced as a young professional and how did you overcome it?

Dorinda Verhoff (10:14.327)
Biggest challenge? Primarily, I think most of my challenges were all internal, especially as a young professional because particularly once I got to DC, I felt a little bit of an imposter syndrome.

I don't belong here with these people. They are all very well connected. They come from wealthy families. They have fancy educations. And I felt like I really had to, you know, prove that I belonged there too. So I really took a lot of that on and worked extra hard. It's like, I want to stand out among these people because I don't, you know, if things go south, I don't want them to say, well, it's that girl, she doesn't belong here. So let's

get rid of her. And so I think that was more of an internal challenge for me than anything external. I never felt that from people. Like I didn't get it. All the people that I worked with were so wonderful and accepting and supportive and really made me feel like a valued part of the team. Those feelings were more sort of internal for me as opposed to anything external.

Sam  Fischer (11:34.955)
that's very vulnerable of you, Demos. I mean, I never thought of you as someone who was vulnerable. I had no idea.

Dorinda Verhoff (11:36.054)
that and I was just really poor.

Dorinda Verhoff (11:49.391)
Well, I didn't at the time either. It's only 20 years later when I can look back on this and acknowledge my weakness when you're in the middle of that stuff.

particularly in politics, can't acknowledge any type of vulnerability or weakness because people will take advantage of that. So I couldn't say 20 years ago, I'm extremely anxious and I have, you know, I struggle with all of these internal issues because people would say, all right, she's nuts, she's out. So I had to sort of deal with all that internally. The other big challenge I had was that I was just really poor. I was broke all the time. I didn't get paid very much and I worked.

worked all the time and I lived in a very expensive place. So I had a ton of student loans, which I paid every penny back over the years. like I just, it's hard when you're starting out because you just don't have any money. And that was me.

Sam  Fischer (12:44.221)
Was it worth it? Was the sacrifice worth it?

Dorinda Verhoff (12:47.959)
sure, yeah for sure. My career in fundraising, which I officially retired from fundraising about five years ago.

Sam  Fischer (12:49.919)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (13:00.534)
you did, you finally saw the light, huh?

Dorinda Verhoff (13:06.671)
It just introduced me to so many things and so many amazing experiences and wonderful people that I just wouldn't trade for anything. So like I would never, I would never get to know Sam Fisher of the Valentine Fishers. That would never be, of course.

Sam  Fischer (13:24.297)
can't believe you know

Dorinda Verhoff (13:26.603)
So, you know, and I'm just, grateful for all of those things. I I worked for the president of United States. Like I saw him a lot. I mean, he was always unhappy when he saw me because he was doing something he didn't want to do. It's not like, it's not like we were pals, but you know, I got to, I got to see that and be a part of that. know, Dick Cheney asked me to marry my husband. And so like all of those things are, I would not have had if it hadn't been for, you know, my job in fundraising.

Sam  Fischer (13:38.642)
Hahaha!

Sam  Fischer (13:57.171)
Yeah, incredible. So what are you up to these days? You're in business development, which tells me you're basically taking all these connections that you used to be scared of and are parlaying them. Is that correct? What do do?

Dorinda Verhoff (14:10.531)
That's basically it. I mean, it's basically being kind of like a fundraiser, but for my public affairs and public relations firm. I've been doing that for about six or seven years now, I guess. I work with some folks that I worked with.

during the 2016 cycle for Senator Rubio when he was running for president. They really great guys and I work with a lot of really energetic, creative, fun young people which gives me a lot of energy. I don't work full time in the office but the time that I do spend there is I think well spent.

Sam  Fischer (14:51.999)
How do you think that, and I don't mean to make fun of, you're not a millennial, you're at the end of X, aren't you? You're Gen X, right? Yeah. So how was it adapting to working with millennials, just knowing you and you're knowing you're no bullshit, no nonsense attitude? I remember one time you and I were doing a finance school and I think I came in a day late or something and I said something, the fact of,

If we could just get them to think outside the box a little bit and you're just like, I just wish we could get them to think.

Dorinda Verhoff (15:30.712)
Sounds like something I might say. I don't remember it, but maybe. Sounds right.

Sam  Fischer (15:33.701)
Yeah, I remember it. I remember it because it's hilarious. But how was it for you to die, you know, this new and it's Gen Z now and a lot of these folks are, they grew up with instant gratification and a lot of them expect a lot of big things very quickly. Big titles, big salaries, big all of it. How has that been for you adapting? I actually took a

I've mentioned this several times on this podcast, but I actually took a class on how to manage Millennials because I didn't I didn't know how to do it How how has that been for you?

Have you softened a little in your old age or, well, you're not old, but I mean, have you softened a little bit from your years of experience?

Dorinda Verhoff (16:23.534)
You know, I...

it a little bit differently in that I think it's about more about the individual as opposed to the generation as a group and as a manager I don't have as much hands -on management today as I did you know let's say ten years ago when I was at Senate committee I think you have to look at each individual who's a part of your team and figure out what their motivations are

Sam  Fischer (16:35.741)
A group. Yeah. I agree.

Dorinda Verhoff (16:57.739)
and what really makes them tick. And I think as a manager, if you spend time getting to know them beyond just their work performance, then you can adjust to get the best work product out of each individual. So that's kind of the way I look at it. I do think that there are some insane expectations.

particularly after COVID where everybody wants to work from home and they all want to make $150 ,000 and they want a gem membership and all these things. But I don't think that you get very far sort of by talking about the good old days and, know, when I started out, I was making 23 grand and, you know, absolutely true, but it definitely gives off kind of a, I had to walk two miles in the snow vibe. And I don't think people...

respond very well to that. Yeah. And I think putting it in perspective too, to say, you know, people say, well, you have a really good setup here. And I'm like, yeah, but I've been at this for 30 years, you know? Yeah, like they're not, they're not paying me for what I'm doing today. They're paying me for what I've been doing for the last 30 years. So, you know, that's the, that's the difference. And, and some people get that.

Sam  Fischer (17:56.041)
They don't care, yeah. I mean, they don't care.

Sam  Fischer (18:11.103)
You earned it, dear.

Sam  Fischer (18:19.305)
Bingo.

Dorinda Verhoff (18:25.015)
and they stick around and the ones that don't will hop around and be very unfulfilled professionally for a long time I think.

Sam  Fischer (18:33.393)
Absolutely. Absolutely. So you, I mean, I you had mentors, but I'm trying to think like if I were.

23 year old millennial when I was 23, you know, it was a long time ago. It was I'm like, it's more than 30 years ago, but Certainly no one managed me in the description that you described I mean people gave me people get I mean how but how are you managed? mean, I my expectation is Kind of like yours is like give me the support. I just need to support

Dorinda Verhoff (18:57.549)
they didn't.

Sam  Fischer (19:08.935)
I've always been a big loyalty guy and to me loyalty works as a two -way street. It only works if both parties are involved. you know, even young kids when they weren't even millennials I managed, I told them that. It's like, you've got to be resourceful. That's something, know, I used to talk about a lot too. It's just, in politics, you've got to be resourceful. What does that mean? It means you have to understand that you have to fix problems.

Dorinda Verhoff (19:13.112)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (19:31.15)
Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (19:36.997)
and you have to fix them quickly and without hesitation. it's just, I mean, I think we're, I'm blessed the way that I was managed coming up and clearly the world's not going to go to crap just because people are managed differently now, but it's just kind of interesting to think, you know, how would I have turned out differently in my career path had I been a millennial or a Z and been managed

Dorinda Verhoff (19:41.602)
Mm -hmm.

Sam  Fischer (20:06.796)
you know, in a different way. I just think it's interesting to look at that. I would be more of an egghead. The cowboy got me by.

Dorinda Verhoff (20:14.211)
Maybe. I don't know. That's an interesting perspective that I don't know that I've thought of. I'm... Fantastic. Let's write a paper about it. No, I had great managers and I also had a few that were really bad. So I really learned from that. You know, I worked for a couple of people that just were not very nice.

Sam  Fischer (20:21.693)
I didn't either until I just brought it up, but it's genius, isn't it? Yeah, let's. Or have a podcast.

Sam  Fischer (20:35.283)
Why were they bad? But why were they bad? Why were they bad?

Dorinda Verhoff (20:42.453)
They weren't good people. And so I knew that they didn't care about me, that they didn't care about my future or my well -being. They only cared about the here and the now and themselves and their own personal advancement. And I got out of those situations as soon as I could. But I also learned from that, that that's not how I wanted to be. So...

Sam  Fischer (20:43.783)
Yeah, right.

Dorinda Verhoff (21:11.919)
I didn't just have a bad experience and say, I'm glad that's over. You sort of take that and repurpose it into how you want to be as a manager.

Sam  Fischer (21:24.617)
Yeah. Did you to this day or even back in the day, did you have specific habits or routines that help you stay motivated and driven?

Dorinda Verhoff (21:41.731)
You know, I, as I mentioned before, I was, I was really poor. And so, you know, I grew up without any money and I knew that if I didn't do well, if I didn't succeed, if I didn't get paid, I wasn't going to eat. I wasn't going to be able to pay my bills. I didn't have a safety net. So that's pretty motivational, I find. for sure.

Sam  Fischer (22:07.049)
Fear has always been my biggest motivator.

Dorinda Verhoff (22:11.287)
And I also, as we spoke before, I didn't want to fail. didn't want to be... I came from a really small town and I always wanted to have more, be more, and do more. I saw politics was really my way to do that at a very early age. It's not one of those businesses where you have to necessarily toil away for years and years before you...

have opportunities. If you're hardworking and willing and there, a lot of things can come to you pretty early. And that's kind of how it worked out for me.

Sam  Fischer (22:46.591)
hard -working, willing, and there. Yeah, that's what these youngsters have to hear that. Yes.

Dorinda Verhoff (22:49.548)
Yeah, that's what you had to do.

Yeah. And I wasn't, I mean, we were in similar positions oftentimes where, you I was hired to do fundraising, but I got sent out to a campaign in Virginia and I put four by eight yard signs. Like.

Sam  Fischer (23:07.643)
My favorite, my favorite story in politics comes, I can't repeat it here. I definitely can't repeat it here, but Rich Beeson told me this story. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about, but it has to, it has to do with a donor that was just dragging you along, trying to take you for a ride. And what you said to this donor, I will never ever forget.

Dorinda Verhoff (23:20.79)
No telling.

Dorinda Verhoff (23:33.849)
I think I know what you're talking about.

Sam  Fischer (23:33.917)
You know the story.

Dorinda Verhoff (23:39.213)
Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (23:39.391)
Yeah, I was just a member. was like, where can I organize a Dorinda fan club? Because it was just, it was so inspirational. I mean, here's somebody who, I mean, you had it together. I always thought you had it together, Dorinda. I thought you were very organized. I thought you were very driven and you just took no shit off of anyone. I mean, that's the perception I had of you. And, you know, you've done well with that.

Dorinda Verhoff (24:04.815)
So, mission accomplished, I guess. Again, the incident that you're referencing happened very early in my tenure at the RNC and sort of back in reference to what I said earlier. I just didn't know. I didn't know that maybe I was being too aggressive. I knew that I had a job to do and I knew that this guy was really

Sam  Fischer (24:06.898)
Yeah

Sam  Fischer (24:31.841)
You had a short time to do it and this is a special election, which you have six weeks or something. It was nothing. Yeah, there's just no time to dilly -dally around.

Dorinda Verhoff (24:33.633)
Right, yeah.

wasn't even that. I was there for like three weeks and it was, yeah. And this guy was, you know, the candidate was not aggressive on the phone and like nobody else was going to do this. And you know, this guy kept jerking me around and I wanted to make sure that he knew that that was not going to fly. And you know, I would not, I would probably not say the same thing today.

Sam  Fischer (24:56.927)
that you weren't messing around.

Sam  Fischer (25:05.439)
Probably not.

Dorinda Verhoff (25:07.554)
But at the time, it seemed like the right thing to do.

Sam  Fischer (25:10.665)
Yeah, well for all our Cowboys Not Eggheads Patreon members, I'll tell you the story, but it's a good one. It's a good one.

Dorinda Verhoff (25:20.814)
It's not very PC in 2024.

Sam  Fischer (25:23.493)
No, we got, mean, it is what it is. How did you, so, you early on you're talking about not having any money and, but how did you balance your personal life with your professional life? I mean, you made a, yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (25:38.52)
I didn't really have one. I mean, it was work. So that was my personal life. All my friends were people that I worked with. And I missed a lot of stuff too. I missed a lot of bachelorette parties and class reunions. I'm going to my 30th class reunion in a couple weeks. But I missed the others because I was working.

So I missed out on a lot of stuff, which is probably not great.

Sam  Fischer (26:12.735)
It's called, it's called Sacrifice.

Dorinda Verhoff (26:14.958)
That's what I did. My best friends today are people that I met during this time of my life. I wouldn't want to trade that for anything. I get asked that question a lot when I'm talking to young people at finance schools and stuff, how do you have a work -life balance? The truth of the matter is I didn't for 25 years.

It wasn't until I slowed down and stopped working so much that I was able to do that. So I would be delighted to hear someone else's answer to that because I simply don't have.

Sam  Fischer (26:58.175)
I didn't, I mean, not when I worked at the RNC. I mean, was gone, I was gone a hundred, I had, you know, seven, one time I had 17 states in my region. So I couldn't do my job sitting down at my desk at home. and you know, I think in 2004, I think it was 183 nights on the road or something. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, they used to call me Mr. Fisher on United Airlines, not anymore, but, and they, you know, they used to, yeah, I mean,

Dorinda Verhoff (27:08.077)
Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (27:18.037)
I easily hit that, yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (27:23.106)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (27:28.009)
tons of Marriott points or Hilton points or whatever. wasn't, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dorinda Verhoff (27:31.48)
Titanium for life, yeah.

But I would leave on Monday, come home on Tuesday night, leave again, switch out my suitcase, leave again on Wednesday night, be gone Thursday and Friday, sometimes be able to come home for the weekend, sometimes not. I spent so much time in Charleston, West Virginia, I had season tickets to the minor league baseball team there. Yeah, was a lot of fun. The games were a lot of fun.

Sam  Fischer (27:59.027)
did you really? That's awesome. That's awesome. For me, it was, yeah, Seattle or Albuquerque. Like, you know, was like going to Seattle. It like going to grocery store. It just something I did. Just something I did. yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

Dorinda Verhoff (28:07.181)
Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (28:12.098)
Once a week, yep.

Sam  Fischer (28:19.999)
Sorry, I am blind.

Sam  Fischer (28:26.591)
How do you find your direction?

Dorinda Verhoff (28:33.218)
How did I or how do I?

Sam  Fischer (28:33.247)
It's a tough question. How do I? How do you? Because I don't know how to find direction. I need some direction, Dorenda. Give me some direction. How do you find direction?

Dorinda Verhoff (28:38.114)
too.

Dorinda Verhoff (28:45.582)
How do I find?

Dorinda Verhoff (28:51.52)
You know, I mean, I have to say my faith. I you know, it's not always obvious, I think, particularly when you have complicated situations, but I lean on my faith and what I know to be true.

about my Lord and Savior. And that helps me a lot. I don't always make the right choice, but I certainly strive to do that. when you have a lot of things to consider, like when I was in my 20s, when I was doing this gig with you guys, I didn't have anything.

I didn't have, I mean, I had to move in with my friend and give up my apartment because my cable kept getting turned off. I forgot to pay my bills because I was traveling all the time. So yeah, I wasn't there anyway, so it didn't matter. But you know, I didn't have anything. But now...

Sam  Fischer (29:49.523)
Didn't watch it anyway.

Dorinda Verhoff (29:57.132)
I have everything. So I have a fantastic husband, a lovely home, two great kids, a dog that's sleeping beside me right now. And so I have a lot of different things to consider and my faith helps me sort that out.

Sam  Fischer (30:13.577)
Yeah, we strip it all down. On your deathbed, you're not going to be thinking about some job you had.

Dorinda Verhoff (30:15.81)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (30:21.652)
I hope not. really do hope not. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (30:24.047)
or you didn't get or whatever, you know, some client you didn't get or some, you know, some campaign you wish you would made a different decision on. I don't think I'm gonna be thinking about any of stuff.

Dorinda Verhoff (30:31.862)
Right.

I hope not. I really hope not. But you never know. I haven't been on my deathbed, so thankfully.

Sam  Fischer (30:39.668)
Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (30:49.021)
How do you handle setbacks or failure?

Sam  Fischer (30:58.919)
It was a, you know, I got, I, as you know, I retired here three years ago, but the business was getting.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:00.588)
Hmm.

Sam  Fischer (31:08.775)
It's a contact sport, clearly, right? And you're right in the middle of the contact right now. You can handle it, but it...

I just got so...

I always describe my life in politics as a love hate deal. I loved it a little bit more than I hated it. And it just flipped for me at some point where I just, don't, I don't want to tolerate the BS that you've got to tolerate, you know? And so what did I, what, so how did I handle it? quit.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:25.71)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:30.924)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:38.222)
Mm.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:43.446)
Same, so did I. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (31:45.543)
Yeah, I'm really surprised that you got completely out of fundraising. You're one of the best fundraisers in America.

Dorinda Verhoff (31:53.486)
Wow, you're sweet to say that. you know, I just, the 2016 cycle just crushed me. And it wasn't fun anymore. It wasn't interesting. It was mean and ugly. And I just didn't have the stomach for it. So I just, you know, thankfully I was in a position where I could do something else.

Sam  Fischer (31:55.549)
Well, it's true.

Dorinda Verhoff (32:22.37)
And I had these great colleagues who asked me to be a part of their new venture and I never looked back.

Sam  Fischer (32:30.111)
I didn't know anything was fundraising. Yeah. Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (32:33.453)
Yeah, in fact, we don't do any politics. Everything we do is corporate or non -profit. So I don't have anything to do with any candidates, no campaigns, nothing. And I love it. It's great because it definitely is.

Sam  Fischer (32:39.401)
Gotcha.

Sam  Fischer (32:47.987)
Gotcha. Yeah, stress levels a little different in it. I mean, there's still stress. There's still stress, but it's not so, if anything, I think that world, mean, because I did a lot of that myself, the corporate and public affairs and all that. If anything, it's frustrating because it's almost too slow. In my experience, you you go from the

special election campaign where you got three weeks to raise X amount of dollars and everything is bam bam bam bam bam bam. And then the corporate world, sometimes it takes longer for people to make decisions because there's more people involved. And so it becomes frustrating a little bit if you're trying to achieve stuff.

Dorinda Verhoff (33:21.56)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (33:34.456)
Mm -hmm.

It can be, for sure. mean, there's definitely a different cadence to it. But there's also, I think, a greater freedom associated with it as well. That you have the ability to be creative and to do things that are sort of outside of the box or outside of expectations. Whereas in politics, you don't necessarily have that kind of freedom. There's kind of a playbook for things.

and you sort of go by that. And if for some reason you want to veer outside those lanes, there's a lot of justification you have to do. It's very risky. And again, it's typically a compressed time frame. So you have to win or lose pretty quickly. And those are pretty high stakes usually. So that's something that I definitely

do not miss at all.

Sam  Fischer (34:43.261)
don't even know why I'm asking this because it just came to mind, but it's something that you would understand that very few people would understand. And it's something that I've thought about recently. There's lot of clarity when you become retired and sober, but...

Dorinda Verhoff (34:57.653)
I know all about that.

Sam  Fischer (35:02.527)
The one or two times in my life where I experienced absolute depression, like I want to go to sleep, was after a campaign. Maybe it was the Bush campaign in 2004. Maybe it was a mayor's race. It was very tight that I ran and we won. But it was a deal where I...

you're just going 500 miles an hour and everything's clicking boom boom boom boom boom and then the election's over and you shut off the lights and it's dark and it is depressing is one of the most depressing things i've ever lived through have you ever experienced that

Dorinda Verhoff (35:37.378)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (35:49.129)
yes.

Sam  Fischer (35:50.687)
It wasn't long term by the way. was, you know, I got a couple nights of sleep and I was good to go. It didn't take me 16 years of therapy, but I understand what depression is because it was just, it was empty. was dark. It was hopeless. I just wanted to say, Phil, you know what I'm talking about, obviously. I hope you do. Did you ever face that?

Dorinda Verhoff (35:57.538)
Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (36:11.374)
I I do. I've certainly lost more campaigns than I've won, that's for sure.

Sam  Fischer (36:17.969)
I mean, well, if you're in the business long enough, that's true. And anybody that tells you a difference, full of it.

Dorinda Verhoff (36:21.482)
Yeah, right. But thankfully for me, some of this is just because of circumstances and some of it kind of goes back to my impoverishedness, is that I never really had any time in between, you know.

I, as soon as something was out, like as soon as the Bush campaign was over, I started into the inaugural. As soon as the inaugural was over, I went back to the RNC. As soon as that was over, I started the Thompson campaign. As soon as that was over, I started working for Gingrich. I left there and went directly to the Senate committee. So I didn't really have any times where I could be dark, because I just kind of moved. I don't necessarily recommend that. It's not very smart way to operate.

Sam  Fischer (37:08.991)
Neither one is very smart. I mean, nothing you can do to avoid if you're a campaign, it is where it is. You're just, it's a steamroller and you're going 5 ,000 miles an hour, then it's over. But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what you're talking about can lead to burnout, obviously. And you did it for a number of years. And it just, it's emblematic of your expertise and your reputation that that happened.

Dorinda Verhoff (37:10.956)
Ha

Dorinda Verhoff (37:15.308)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (37:26.946)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Sam  Fischer (37:38.469)
I mean, nobody wanted you to be a free agent for very long, so they stacked you up.

Dorinda Verhoff (37:43.882)
Yeah, mean, maybe. I mean, I was very fortunate and I had offers that I wanted to take.

and I was able to work with and for some really great individuals. So I don't regret that. I will say when my oldest son, who's nine, he was born three days before the kickoff of the Rubio campaign in 2015.

So I watched, Jackson and I watched the announcement speech from our hospital bed at Sibley Hospital. But I didn't take one day off during that campaign. I was on the phone, I was on the phone negotiating fundraising contracts while I was in labor.

Sam  Fischer (38:31.849)
Yeah, we can't.

Dorinda Verhoff (38:39.276)
You know, as soon I had a c -section, so I was in quite a bit of pain for a few weeks. But as soon as I was cleared by my doctor to drive, like I loaded him up and took him to the office. He was, you know, a couple of weeks old. I look back at that and I think, you know, maybe that wasn't the right thing to do. But at the time, I looked at it as, you know, I was sort of sacrificing our present for his future.

And I, you know, would I recommend someone do that? Absolutely not. But at the time, I didn't feel like I had a choice. Like I had a job to do and I was very happy to be a new mom and happy with my son, but you know, he was just going to have to learn how to roll with it.

Sam  Fischer (39:33.939)
Yeah, he'll be fine. He'll be fine. It's part of who he is. It's fine. I don't even know your son, but I guarantee he's fine.

Dorinda Verhoff (39:38.103)
You

Dorinda Verhoff (39:41.91)
I don't know about that. He's a little bit of a challenge, but he's a good kid.

Sam  Fischer (39:46.047)
The other thing that I have pondered or thought about in last couple of years is my life was defined by campaigns as yours was. And so from the years of 1989 to 2021, if you name a year, what's the first thing I think about? I think about, yeah, what cycle are you on?

Dorinda Verhoff (39:57.859)
Mm -hmm.

Dorinda Verhoff (40:09.986)
cycle.

Sam  Fischer (40:13.119)
Like if I throw out a year to you, 2011, what are you doing in 2011? You know exactly what you were doing. Yeah. I mean, and so life has been defined like that for me. and, I'm really happy that, hopefully the rest of my life, life isn't going to be defined that way. You know, if somebody says, 2024, I'm going to say, well, that's, that's the year that, my,

Dorinda Verhoff (40:16.918)
I was at the Senate committee.

Sam  Fischer (40:41.585)
My third niece was married that year. It was a great wedding. You know, mean, it's just, it's different. It's different now.

Dorinda Verhoff (40:45.699)
Mm

I think that's great. I mean, I think that's healthy. I think it's healthy to have, you know, normal benchmarks in your life as opposed to, you know, what campaign, what campaign was I working on? You know, what bumper sticker was on my car that year? Or, you know, how many, how many Marriott nights did I get? So I think that's healthy and good. And it's a, it's a young person's business for sure.

Sam  Fischer (40:58.119)
campaign he worked on.

Sam  Fischer (41:03.305)
Hahaha

Sam  Fischer (41:15.039)
I think it is. don't know very many people. are people I know and respect that are as old or older than me or still in it. I'm so done, dude. I'm so done. Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (41:23.641)
I don't know how. I don't know how. It's very, and I just kind of, I got to the point where I was like, I cannot call the same.

50 people and ask them for the same $50 ,000. Like I just can't, I just got to the point where I was like, I've been calling this man for 25 years and he's lovely and kind and always does what I ask him to. But I'm just tired of asking him. Like I just want to, you know, I want to do something else with my time and my life. And I, all the sacrifices that I made during the Bush years were absolutely worth it because I

Sam  Fischer (41:40.775)
Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (41:49.001)
Generous.

Dorinda Verhoff (42:06.461)
I in what I was doing. I believe in George W. Bush.

Sam  Fischer (42:08.287)
Well, I mean, look, some of the best, yeah, that Bush campaign in 2004 was the best, some of the best memories that I have. And I don't want to get the car in front of the horse, but there may be a podcast about the 20th anniversary of that, maybe this season, we'll see. But it was, it was the best time, I mean, it was.

Dorinda Verhoff (42:25.942)
You

Dorinda Verhoff (42:29.643)
I'll be sure to tune in to that.

Sam  Fischer (42:35.135)
You know, I was on the ground. wasn't raising money that boy. was, I was a field director for, for Nevada. And, thanks to people like you, had, we had money to work with and money gives you options, like options to options to win or options to lose. But, you know, as, as I've always said about great fundraisers, and I, I think I may have said this in a finance school or two, and that is for every 10 Jack asses.

Dorinda Verhoff (42:44.844)
Yeah. Mm -hmm, sure does.

Sam  Fischer (43:01.673)
that know how to spend money. There's only one that knows how to raise it. And I think you and I are part of that club and I'm proud of that club. So, you know, it is. I agree. I agree. I can't, you've mentioned a little bit, but I don't want to wrap up this podcast without talking about what it's like to be a mom.

Dorinda Verhoff (43:05.454)
That's right.

Dorinda Verhoff (43:09.954)
Yeah, it's an elite group.

Dorinda Verhoff (43:27.658)
It's exhausting. It's great most of the time. I have two sons. Jackson is nine. William is four.

Sam  Fischer (43:29.321)
Hahaha!

Sam  Fischer (43:36.711)
You have two sons, Jackson is nine, Is that his name, Jackson? And William, that his? My brother's name is William, or Will, yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (43:48.492)
William is named for my husband's uncle Billy, who was a character, as one might say. And my youngest son certainly fits his namesake's bill.

Sam  Fischer (44:01.917)
Is he still William or he's William?

Dorinda Verhoff (44:04.852)
He's William. I've tried to get Billy going, but it just hasn't stuck yet. We kind of refer to him as Wild Bill because he's a bit of a wild card. He's a huge Swiftie. He's obsessed with Taylor Swift.

Sam  Fischer (44:15.817)
Gotcha.

Sam  Fischer (44:21.279)
That is so interesting, isn't it?

Dorinda Verhoff (44:23.647)
Yeah, I don't know. He's just his own little character and Jackson's kind of a jock. mean he loves sports, he plays football and baseball and he's a great golfer. He's been playing competitive golf for the last couple years. Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (44:42.857)
Good for him. Gonna retire mom and dad, baby. Get on the PGA circuit. That's awesome.

Dorinda Verhoff (44:47.25)
They're both true lefties, which is also kind of interesting. But they keep me really busy and trying to sort of meet their needs and take care of them while taking care of...

other things is a challenge. I never really thought I would have kids because I didn't really want to. But once I met my husband and we decided we were going to get married, I was like, okay, well, this makes sense. I didn't want to just have these nameless, faceless, generic children in my 20s, but I specifically wanted to have a family with him. It was hard. My first Jackson was born

I 39. I was 44 when William was born. That was a long, challenging process to get there with him. We had three losses.

Sam  Fischer (45:48.423)
I'm glad you're blessed with it. Heather and I waited until later years and it was, you know, but it is where it is. It is where it is. I was just too busy working at RNC, I guess. I'll blame them.

Dorinda Verhoff (45:52.866)
It was hard. Yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (45:59.127)
Yeah, I mean, I was kind of the same way. And with Jackson, it was very easy. And it came quickly. And he was very healthy. And I was miserable being pregnant, but I was healthy too. And then when it came time for the second one, it was just not as easy.

Sam  Fischer (46:16.827)
I can not, probably not gonna be a third, huh?

Dorinda Verhoff (46:19.79)
Sadly, no. I'll be 50 next year.

Sam  Fischer (46:24.869)
I can't even believe that, but then I look at my own age and think what happened, but yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (46:28.814)
know right that's crazy but so Wild Bill is is the caboose and we're happy with that and it's great we have a ton of fun I mean these kids crack me up constantly but they also kind of drive me crazy but that's yeah I mean it's not right yeah

Sam  Fischer (46:49.188)
But you had a good experience. From before, from before. Dealing with all these other idiots.

Dorinda Verhoff (46:54.978)
Yeah, I've been dealing with man children for years, so it's not anything new. But I think some people try to paint this picture of motherhood, that it's all earth goddess, lovely, you... It's nurturing, and it's all of these things. And it is, but it's also a lot of fart jokes.

Sam  Fischer (46:59.322)
Exactly.

Sam  Fischer (47:11.551)
Not with two boys it's not. It's poop and puke, right?

ha ha ha ha

Dorinda Verhoff (47:23.587)
you know, a lot of, don't want to do that and I refuse to brush my teeth and I'm absolutely wearing Crocs and there's nothing you can do about it. that's all, that's all part of it too. So, and being an older mom, it's like, physically it's demanding. And it's not that, you know, that's not something that I kind of did the math on before. It wouldn't have changed.

Sam  Fischer (47:43.657)
Yeah, you gotta be in shape, yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (47:50.99)
my mind about it, but it was not something I was really prepared for. And giving birth at 44 is, as my doctor said, there's a reason people do this at 20 and not 40. So.

Sam  Fischer (48:07.357)
I'll finish with this. A Carol Burnett joke that I always thought was funny was that giving birth is like pulling your lower lip over your head. So, ba bum.

Dorinda Verhoff (48:18.766)
Yeah, well, Jackson weighed 10 pounds when he was born. So it was a, let's call it a struggle. yeah, right. Why would I do that again?

Sam  Fischer (48:28.351)
That was good.

Well, knew you... Dorinda, I appreciate your time and your friendship. Let's talk more often.

Dorinda Verhoff (48:35.988)
it's always my pleasure.

I'm very happy for you that the Cornhuskers are back, baby. Yeah, I'm a big tin gal now, you know?

Sam  Fischer (48:46.303)
Ha! National news that you know about the Huskers. Easy, easy, easy on the back thing. I mean, we won three straight games and everybody says, they've turned the page. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, We'll see. We got to win tomorrow night.

Dorinda Verhoff (49:01.442)
Listen, Vanderbilt University, I mean, we're two in one right now, which is a big deal, but.

Sam  Fischer (49:07.719)
I love Vanderbilt. Do you know I give money to Vanderbilt every year? Because they, I do, because they have, my mother died of a thing called multiple system atrophy. And they are the lead researcher in that horrendous, debilitating disease. And so we have a little fun for her that we give every year. So, you know, when Vandy was in the College of World Series, I was pulling for him and stuff. I, and I, you know, I knew you're sort of connected with them. So.

Dorinda Verhoff (49:10.882)
Do you really?

Dorinda Verhoff (49:19.597)
Mm

Dorinda Verhoff (49:29.208)
It's terrific.

yeah.

Dorinda Verhoff (49:36.512)
Yeah, that's great. I think about you every time I see the Huskers. my husband's a big Michigan fan, so I'm sort of falling into this land of the Big Ten, which I was not familiar with before. And so I'm paying a little more attention to it.

Sam  Fischer (49:37.212)
Yeah.

Sam  Fischer (49:42.569)
Go Big Red. Michigan.

Sam  Fischer (49:55.315)
Well, they don't play in Lincoln this year, but if Michigan comes to Lincoln, I'd to invite both of you to come. We'll do it up right.

Dorinda Verhoff (50:03.902)
my gosh, my son is the bigger, he's crazy about Michigan. Jeff took him to the big house last year for.

Sam  Fischer (50:15.709)
I've been there, it's incredible.

Dorinda Verhoff (50:17.486)
For an, he went with the, John James had a fundraiser up there. And so Jackson went with them and they were having this dinner the night before the game. And it was all these, you know, sort of 40 and 50 year old white guy lobbyists. And Jackson was like holding court with them talking about he was going through the stats and all the players. And he said, they're going to, they're going to be undefeated this season and they're going to win the national championship. And everybody laughed at

them. They said, this kid's so funny, so great. so Congressman James bet him, he was like, okay, if they do that, then I'll give you a private tour of the Capitol. that was Jackson's prediction for, it was the second game of the season. It was UNLV or something. So was early on, but.

Sam  Fischer (50:48.755)
Good for him.

Sam  Fischer (50:59.753)
Ooh, rock and roll. I've never even had one of those.

Sam  Fischer (51:10.825)
Good. He'll never forget it for the rest of his life. It's awesome.

Dorinda Verhoff (51:14.058)
No, he won't. He's super into it. so and we've we've moved on to following all of these Michigan players in the NFL now. So now we're Vikings fans and Steelers fans and all that stuff.

Sam  Fischer (51:22.975)
So I wouldn't recommend this show for Jackson. Maybe your husband likes it, but Busting with the Boys podcast, which is Taylor Lewin from Michigan and then Will Compton from Nebraska. It's the, both, and all they talk about is Michigan and Nebraska football. It's great. You gotta check it. I wouldn't recommend it for Jackson. Probably not the, yes, but it's funny. It's very good. So check it out.

Dorinda Verhoff (51:38.615)
yeah?

Dorinda Verhoff (51:44.426)
Okay. Salty language? Yeah. Okay. Bussin' with the boys. I'm always up for a new podcast.