Revolutionizing Education: The Apogee Model - with Special Guest Nissa Cohen

In this episode, Nissa Cohen discusses her experiences and insights related to the Omaha Apogee school, emphasizing the importance of preparedness, the unique educational philosophy of Apogee, and the value of engaging parents in their children's education. The discussion covers the operational structure of the school, the significance of teaching values, and the concept of the learning zone where frustration is embraced as part of the learning process. This conversation explores the evolving landscape of education, emphasizing the need for personalized learning experiences that challenge traditional norms for learning. They also address the role of technology in education and the necessity of adapting learning paths for unique learners. The dialogue culminates in a discussion about the differences between just-in-time and just-in-case learning, advocating for a more relevant and engaging educational approach. This conversation explores the integration of physical health, resilience, and meaningful education through innovative teaching methods. Sam and Nissa discuss the importance of physical activity, free play, and the Socratic method in fostering critical thinking and engagement among children. They emphasize the establishment of core values and nutrition education as essential components of a holistic educational experience, culminating in a structured yet flexible learning environment that encourages family involvement and personal responsibility. This conversation explores the innovative educational approach at Apogee, focusing on family dynamics, self-driven learning, and the importance of mentorship. The discussion highlights the commitment to health and fitness, the challenges faced in transitioning from traditional education, and the significance of understanding one's motivations. The speakers emphasize the value of failure as a learning tool and the importance of community support in education.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Apogee School
05:44 Understanding Apogee's Educational Philosophy
10:53 Engagement and Values in Education
16:51 The Learning Zone and Embracing Frustration
21:10 Minimum Standards in Learning
25:16 Utilizing Technology in Education
27:28 Personalized Learning Paths
29:38 Exploring Career Aspirations
31:01 Mentorship and Real-World Experiences
33:02 Building a Portfolio for Future Success
35:12 Adapting Education for Unique Learners
36:51 Just-in-Time Learning vs. Just-in-Case Learning
37:32 The Importance of Physical Health
38:28 Building Resilience Through Physical Activity
39:42 The Role of Free Play in Child Development
40:54 Socratic Method in Education
43:50 Engaging Children in Meaningful Conversations
45:32 Understanding Different Perspectives
48:51 Establishing Core Values in Education
50:43 Health Equals Wealth: Nutrition Education
52:58 The Structure of the Educational Year
54:58 The Screening Process for Apogee Families
56:16 Commitment to Health and Family Growth
57:31 Apogee Mentorship Programs
01:01:04 Building a Strong Foundation for Education
01:02:57 The Importance of Understanding Your 'Why'
01:06:54 Challenges in Self-Driven Education
01:10:38 Embracing Failure as a Learning Tool

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Cowboys, not Eggheads. Home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggheads. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys. And let's keep the conversation alive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share. And now, Cowboys, not Eggheads with Sam Fisher.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

We're welcoming back previous guest Nissa Cohen today to talk about something other than CrossFit. I'm very excited about it. It's something that I've kind of watched develop over the months as an observer. And it's a school called Apogee, and we'll we will we will talk about that in a second. And I specifically had Nissa on, I was gonna, I thought about doing this before she started the school. I'm like, no, let's let's let's let's let's have her run this for a little while first and then maybe we'll get a better interview out of the deal because I think it'll be a different perspective, perhaps. So we'll talk about that. Uh Nissa Cohen, one of your one of your main things in life that I've ascertained is that you like being prepared. It's a it seems to be a core value of yours to be prepared overall.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Um I yeah, I like to be prepared. I feel like that's um just the first thing that popped in my mind when you said that was when, let's see, Cam was a year and a half year old when I I have one son who is almost six now.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Yeah. Um I think Cam was two or three the first time we did this uh first time you're on, so that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah. Um he so when I was pregnant with him, I said I'm no longer going to compete in CrossFit. And um then when he was about a year and a half old, our affiliate qualified a team for semifinals. And I promise this is getting to preparedness. Um he you own the gym, and based on the skills that were going to be required at the level of competition for semifinals for the crossway games, um, we had one strong girl competitor, Brie, who's been a guest several times, and then um I was kind of next in line for the skills that needed to be done. And so when you own the gym, you do what you gotta do, right? And um, from the time that I found out that I was we were going to be having Cam, I was pregnant, um, I cut way back on my training. And I knew that that part of my life wasn't gonna be a priority anymore, right? Ma motherhood family was gonna be top priority, but preparing for someone else, then running a business, then my fitness pursuits, right? And um I don't usually get nervous for things. And when we showed up there and got checked in and um were in the warm-up area, I was like, Kyle, I am so nervous right now.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

You probably freaked out.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

And I knew exactly why. I told him I was like, I'm nervous because I don't feel prepared. Like I haven't been training at this point.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

You felt very vulnerable because you weren't prepared.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

You felt yeah, like uh somebody without a rope. Yeah, so that's just that's who I am. I just I like to be prepared.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Um in all matters of life, not just CrossFit, right? Not just Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

I mean, I I research just about everything when I'm going into something. Um I have to do that. I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

She didn't, listener, she didn't she didn't bring notes this time.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Um I didn't ask for questions ahead of time, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

No, no, these are easy questions.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Um I yeah, when I found out I was pregnant, I dove headfirst into reading, researching everything I could, but I think I have a strong balance of researching, snuffing out bullshit, looking at alternative perspectives from the mainstream, um, but also trusting my gut and my intuition. Like after I'm taking in that research, I'll think through it and stuff, but ultimately a lot of my decisions come down to what feels best in my gut.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

So we talk about this a lot, and people are tired. My wife's tired of me talking about this. But so if you make a decision, it's in intuition, it's it's more of a gut feeling versus your your heart. You're not like Jeff Bettsworth. I'm not either. Like, you don't when you go to like he'll grab his heart, like I'll grab my gut, or I'll yeah, I go, I go here. Yeah, so is that that's your experience? I mean, but yeah, so you and I are like that way. Yeah, um, so apogee is uh uh there's nine kids. I count a 12 today, but is there nine kids?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

We have 11 learners. 11 learners, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Learners, not kids, leaders.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I call them learners, I call them leaders, I call them kids.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

They're not students, they're they're learners and leaders. Okay. Uh and uh you post something the other day said prepare the student, prepare the student for the road, not the road for the student, which I thought was very clever. Um again, back to the preparedness. Were you you said you were prepared to start this school, but were you really prepared to start this school?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Uh yes, and I don't know. Um has it been besides becoming a mom? It's I wholeheartedly say that yes, it's the most challenging undertaking I've I've put myself into. Um but also I did it by choice. Um my my dad has all of these isms, I guess. Like when I graduated from high school, he is a very not technological guy. And so my graduation gift from him was he took the time to hand type out on a computer his isms and print it out, laminate it. And um one of his things is find a way or make one.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

And so um when it came to Cam's education, I knew that I wanted not the mainstream traditional scrolling model. And so we tried some alternatives, and after ex having those experiences, um, there's still just a few things missing from what I can Eric and I envisioned for him, and so we tried some things and now we're making it.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

So let's let the listeners in on the gig. What is apogee?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Apogee is an education, growth, leadership community for entire families. So, yes, the majority of what we do at Apogee Omaha is um homeschool instructional support for families. The ultimate goal is the growth of entire family units to create a stronger community foundation. Um we it originally started, so we are an affiliate of Apogee Strong. And Apogee Strong initially was founded by Tim Kennedy, who is a Greenberg sniper MMA championship belt contender, real man, real life Captain America almost. Um he founded it with another guy named Matt Baudreau, who was previously um a keynote speaker for some big name corporations. Um and he was a public school educator, public school administrator, private school educator, private school administrator, and kind of similar to us, him and his wife found out they were pregnant, and he was like, I can't fix the system that I'm in currently, and I know that that's not what I want for my my kids. So he started um founding campuses um for a different network and has since teamed up with Tim to create these affiliates across the country, even across the world, where we are trying to build better humans, build stronger family connections, build communities of people who value hard work, who value politeness, who value problem solving, who value being brave, being living with integrity, um just being leaders within our world.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

And you haven't said one word about education yet, but this is what this is. This is this is a different way of so to I don't know if you were used that word education.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, that we use education intentionally, not school or schooling, right? And so in my mind, education is the imparting of a way of life, right? So parents will always be the number one educators in their children's lives for their duration of their life. Right. And so we want parents who are engaged in their children's education and take a vested interest in how their children are being raised and what values they have as important in their home, and that is aligning with the education that the children are getting, the learners are getting when they're outside the home. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

So um right now the the age span is what?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Five to eleven right now.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Five to eleven. And so there are varying degrees of um what you're teaching these kids, or is there? So I mean and I mean obviously the value piece of it is equal for all of them. Like there's certain values I'm sure that you have. I I think you're up on your wall.

SPEAKER_05 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Um, so those things are always consistent, doesn't matter how old you are. But 11-year-old is gonna be probably learning at a different rate or different things than uh the youngest five-year-old. Um, so how do you segregate that throughout the day? Yes, and you're talking to somebody that went to a one-year or actually two-room schoolhouse for my grade school education, and so it was K through uh three in one room and four through eight in the other. And so people had we had different lesson plans and or different times that we discussed things, or we're quiet when the other people how how does that work operationally? How does that what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

It sounds very similar to to us. So we divide them up into squads based on brain development. So our five to seven-ish year olds are in our Pathfinder squad. They're finding their path. Um, then our eight to eleven, one of them just turned 12, so I guess technically we're at 12 right now. Um, they're in our trailblazer squad. Next year we'll add in our Ascend squad, um, and that'll be ages 12 to 15-ish. And so those age ranges are based, like I said, on brain development. Um, you have a major leap in your brain development about every four years throughout life until our brains fully developed at what did I say, 24-ish? I think I'm regressing, but so um so yeah, we have different areas within our campus for the different age groups. And we have buckets that we hit throughout the day. And so our first bucket, we come in together as a full group and we uh say the pledge, and then we have greetings and gratitude. So we start our day by shaking each other's hands, making eye contact, saying firm handshake.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Yep, we don't we don't give fishes, we don't give fishes an apogee. Yep. There is nothing listeners worse to me than someone who gives me a fish for a handshake. Yeah, and it has happened to me, it happened to me in the last month or two. Uh, and it is just like it was uh like a 23-year-old kid who gave me an absolute fish for a handshake. And guess, you know, I've written that person off forever.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah. So they they are every morning, they shake hands, they make eye contact, they use each other's name, say good morning, Sawyer. If there's something that, you know, they notice something new or cool, they might give a compliment while they're while they're doing it. You know, I make it I make it a point myself to lead from the front, lead by example. And so in addition to my good morning, Sawyer, I tell them something positive about them as well. Um and then so we do greetings first, then we say the Pledge of Allegiance, and then we come have our morning huddle where we we sit and I give them some sort of gratitude prompt, right? Something that they're grateful for. Or like today, we talked about we need to show gratitude too. How do we show others that we're grateful? And so um it's always more challenging for them to talk about things that they do that are kind, or things that they are grateful for themselves about. So this was a challenging one for them today to to talk about something kind that they did for someone else recently. Um, so we start our day kind of reflecting on the good things that we have, and then from there we go into our core skills, which is reading, writing, and arithmetic, basically.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Yay, because you knew that the ISCJ in me is like, I'm all good with everything you're saying, but if they if they come out there not knowing how to read, write arithmetic, then I probably wouldn't send my kids my kid there. So the the core, they're they're getting the core.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yep, so they do their core skills after that, and those are uh self-directed. So younger learners, it's a lot of hands-on manipulative stuff where we have a bookshelf that is all math-related works, and they we go by where our current leaders are at. Um, so we have works that are challenging regardless of whether you're five or whether you're seven, you know, and maybe some of our five-year-olds are capable of doing more than what a six or seven-year-old is capable, but they're able to challenge themselves and move at their pace. Um, so we've got, you know, a bookshelf that is math stuff, we've got a bookshelf that is language art stuff, and then for those younger ages, we also we have cultural and then we have practical life. So a huge component of that younger age group is how do we make a bed? How do we fold laundry? How do we set a table? How do we politely ask for help? How do we not interrupt? How do we interact with people politely socially, right? And so that's a big component of what they're working on.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

How do we tell clo time on a regular watch? Yeah. How do we count change?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

That's the only clock that we have in the on campus.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

A regular clock.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Not a visual clock. Some of the kids have gab watches, and we do have an Alexa that we use for security for ring camera and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Well, the truth of the matter is I don't I hate to say it, but I don't even know that you need to know the regular clock anymore, but they do. It's not a bad skill. They know how to count change and that kind of good jazz?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

They are currently working on counting change because we're in a right now, they're the focus of their projects is a shark tank emphasis. So it's yeah, so at the end of this five-week sprint, they'll be giving Shark Tank style pitches to real business owners. And so leading into their entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

So it sounds like to me, they're well, there isn't grades, they're squads. So it's not so my friend Carrie Evans, you know, Carrie, um my mentor in CrossFit has been on this podcast, and he had a podcast called uh The Prodigy, and he was he was a he graduated from grade school, I think, when he was 11, high school when he was 14, and college when he was 17. Somebody like that, a kid who's just brilliant, would probably thrive and uh would you have your hands full or what I mean not necessarily. I mean you would you would just they would just you'd put them where they where they wouldn't be bored. You put them so they were challenged. I don't think Carrie was ever challenged academically.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

And that's that's a big part of of our model is we have a big poster up in on campus that that says on one side not knowing, on this side, knowing, and in the middle, there's this squiggly up and down line, and in the middle that's the learning zone. And then in that learning zone is also frustration and like a visual representation, so like a frustrated-looking emoji, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:02

And so we got that from um I got one that I wore throughout my education.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, so I got that um that concept from her name is Dr. Becky Kennedy. Um, she's got you know fairly big social influence, so her her thing is good inside. And um so I heard that and I was like, yes, absolutely. So we talk a lot about being in in the learning zone and feeling frustrated, and when you're feeling frustrated, that's not a bad thing. And the way we get better at tolerating frustration is by being challenged to the point of feeling frustration. And so feeling frustrated is encouraged and celebrated for us.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

It's kind of opposite of the way society's going, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Where things are easy um versus uh not hard, not being challenged.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Right. And so, you know, to your to your point of kids learning at moving at their own pace, we do have a learner who is if we're concerned with grade level, and what does that mean? Who sets those arbitrary, like at this age you should be able to read at this level and do this level of math? If or should the goal be when they're ready to go out into the world as a young adult, they're able of doing the tasks that are required to be a good, successful human.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

So let me be devil's advocate for a second. So is there an age that they need to have some minimum standards in there? Shouldn't there be some minimum standards that they should know that they should? I mean, and I don't it doesn't ever have to be by a standardized test, but isn't there a level that that that that that that you uh as an I don't what do you call yourself? Teacher, instructor, coach? You as a coach, um aren't there certain I I assume yes, but the is it is isn't there a minimum threshold that you've got you've got a you're gonna have to meet. The coach is gonna have to figure out where it is because you're not you're not standardized, you're not do they take tests?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

So we're looking we're looking for growth. Are we seeing that they're growing?

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

You know, right.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

And there are many things that go into growth.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Not at any like arbitrary, you need to be at this level at this age, and you need to be at this level at this age.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Well, they ought to be able to read, they ought to be able to to to to to to read to kill a mockingbird and understand it.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Right?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

But uh but I would I would challenge that who says that they need to be able to do that when they're uh no one. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 20:48

No one, but what I'm saying is they they should have if I'm sitting my kid there, I don't have kids, uh, which is always fun little game I play on this little podcast. Uh but if it's my kid, uh, which I don't have one, but um I would want if I told my child to read this book and and give me a report, I would expect them to be able to have that capability after they finish this school.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Okay. Same. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Same. Yeah. Um we also I want to I also want to think, I want to ask you, how do you respond when somebody tries to get you to do something you don't want to do?

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Who me? Yeah. I usually curse. It depends on how much they're paying me, Nissa. That's when I was working. Yeah. 90% of what I did, I never wanted to do, but I got paid for it. Yeah. And I got I charged accordingly. Um, but I but uh I'll be serious and answer. What do I do? What at this at my age right now? What do I do if somebody asks me something I don't want to do? Um I I put I I I assign a value to it and decide if it's worth it to me to do it.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Okay. Uh what if they don't know some things aren't worthy. What if they don't ask you? What if they tell you?

SPEAKER_04 22:05

What if someone tells me to do something I don't want to do? Um I am probably not gonna do it because I'm at my age uh well I I I guess I it's such a it's a hypothetical. I'm probably gonna be resistant.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah. Right? So brain development it's common and normal for kids to not take an interest in academia until about age eight. Like their brain's not right necessarily ready for it. Right. Right? But there's been there's been this progression of and this push of four-year-olds need to be counting to a hundred before they can go in they go into kindergarten and they should know all of their letters and letter sounds.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Whereas, but on the other hand, if they if they do know that, I don't think it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

I don't think it's terrible either if they do know that, but if their brain isn't ready to learn it and we're forcing it on them, it's a mistake. How are they gonna respond, right? Right. So our goal is to keep the curiosity, the love for learning, the desire to learn, to chase challenging things, to keep that alive in kids instead of driving it out.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Give them a thirst for knowledge, a thirst for learning.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yep, exactly. And so there is more responsibilities and expectations put on them as they age up into each squad, but that's bra based on what their brains are theoretic theoretically ready to handle.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

You know? Right. Um, and so we do, you know, I talked about a little bit how the Pathfinders do their core skills. The um from Trailblazers on Up, they are using web-based platforms for their academia, for their reading, writing arithmetic. And so AI scares the crap out of me about where it could go, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:14

I actually looked up apogee today on AI. Then unfortunately, I can't read it because it's my stupid. It's on my phone, which it's recording us right now, but um it's nothing what you've said. So its description isn't anything close to what you've said today, by the way, so far.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It's still learning, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:34

AI, yes. It's it's learning all the time. It's listening right now as we record this.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

So they um are we use web-based platforms for their reading, writing, and math. Uh, we on our campus, so being an affiliate, it's very similar to CrossFit. We're our own small business affiliated with Apogee, to be able to use the Apogee strong name, right? Um, but we're still able to make decisions with within our campus, within our affiliate, that are best for our community. Um, as long as we are upholding the values and the code of apogee, which are those seven words that are up on our wall, um, we're able to make decisions that are best for serving our community. And so we have chosen to use a platform called IXL for our core skills. And the kids are able to self-pace. It keeps track of like they select skills to work on, and for each question that they answer correctly, their smart score for that skill goes up. But for each one they answer incorrectly, it goes down more than it goes up for a right answer. Right? And so they're working to achieve mastery in that skill. And um the AI functionality in there allows the platform to learn what this kid's strengths are, where their weaknesses are, give them enough to challenge them where they're continuing to want to grow, but not so much that they're getting frustrat so frustrated that they just shut down. Right? Yeah, and so it tracks their progress. We get a graphic rec representation of the growth that they're making. If we want to choose to attach it to grade levels, we can. Um, I've chosen to turn off that functionality to the kids, but I know how it coincides. Sure, you know, and if it's something that's important to the parents of that family, I help them understand like how that works. And so we can see that they're making that positive growth trend, which which is what we want, right? And we can see where are they at compared to other peers their age if that is important to the family and go from there. Um but they're also able to choose things that interest them. You know, so they start to narrow down earlier where that intersection of what I'm good at, what I enjoy doing, what the world needs, and what I can make money doing. It's called your Ikigai in Japan. Um, they're starting to narrow that down earlier rather than playing this game of traditional school where I'm learning all of these expected to learn all of these things just in case I might need them someday down the road, and then they get out to college and they continue to play that same game, and then they graduate from college and they're like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Now what?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

This isn't the same game that I've been playing for the last 18 years.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

You know? Um, and so our goal is to help them identify where are those strengths, what does interest me by providing them as many experiences as possible. So our afternoons are all project-based learning. Um, our Friday afternoons, our guest speakers coming in, field trips out to hear people's stories. Good humans in this world, how do they get to where they are? What values are important to them so that the kids can help see these patterns? Like, oh, Mr. Picnic, he said that it's important to work hard but having have fun and enjoy while you're doing it. But also, so did Mr. Will, who is the kettlebell world champion and just gave a TED talk. He said that too. That's a common theme here, maybe you know, so they're they're yeah, maybe I should start paying attention to those things that I'm hearing over and over and over from these real-world leaders.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

So well, let's apply this to Sam and Nyssa, shall we?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

Because Nyssa wanted to be a pediatric heart surgeon, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Pediatric cardiologist.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Oh, a cardiologist. So how old were you or young? Four, five, six.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, elementary school.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

So here you are in apogee, and you're all you're all fired up for this. What how how would have it turned out? I mean, what how what would it have looked like?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

If I had been a pediatric cardiologist.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

If you if if that's that was your path, Pathfinder, or your or or or uh what's the I can't remember the name of your squad, but um you're finding your path, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

So that was your path. So what would Nissa have done with little Nyssa?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 29:42

I um uh give me like projects or things that would have encouraged you to explore that more.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Um gosh, I it depends on their age, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

So you were you were young?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah. Um I would provide opportunities to talk with those people. You know, the reason that I wanted to be that was because I was born with a congenital heart defect.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

And you liked your doctor?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I liked my doctor, you know. Um, so younger, we're trying to expose them. Let's throw as many darts at the wall as we can and let's see what sticks. Right? And then as they continue on their path and their journey, we narrow it down.

SPEAKER_04 30:29

Okay, so so you wouldn't have necessarily steered young Nissa, like, hey, well, here's what you gotta do to become a hard surgeon. No. Okay, okay, well, uh how about 13-year-old Sam when he decided he was gonna become a United States Secret Service agent?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Mm-hmm. So as as they age up through their different squads, so um Pathfinders and Trailblazers throwing darts at the ball, seeing what sticks, right? Once they get into the Ascend squad, which is our like 12 to 15, it's more um off-campus, let's get you set up with some short-term shadowing experiences, internship experiences. And then once you get to that um summit, which is you know, peak of the mountain, so that's gonna be like your 16 to 18-year-olds, the bulk of their focus will be internships and apprenticeships. Most of their time will be spent off campus in more long-term placements, getting way ahead of everybody else. Yeah. And all throughout this, they're creating a portfolio for themselves. And so our our trailblazers are in the beginning steps of that. So they're creating a physical portfolio for themselves. So we use a a belt system for tracking their progress through their core skills, and so for every 25 skills they reach mastery in, they earn a stripe on their belt, kind of jujitsu, jujitsu martial arts type stuff, right? Bringing it back to that. Um, and so that's how they're kind of showing their parents it's a goal for them to reach for. They can tie it in. We do jujitsu on campus every Friday, so they understand.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Actually, jujitsu.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah, like earning stripes is is is cool. It's something to be celebrated, it's something to reach for. Um and so then they also create um, you know, take photos of the work that they created during a sprint that they're proud of, the projects that they've completed. And so they're putting that into a physical binder. Once they get into the Ascend squad, they start to create more of a virtual portfolio of their work. So if it's in Canva or if it's, you know, Google Slides, or how are they gonna choose to put the work that they have amassed together to be able to show people?

SPEAKER_04 33:03

It's like their thesis before they even get into it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Like this is what I have experienced, this is what I've accomplished, so that when they get out into the real world, who the hell's not gonna hire that kid right away? So put that together with high expectations of politeness and um integrity and honesty, and it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

So I have a friend, um, she's talked about her son, so I guess I will talk about her son. His her he has a 12-year-old son named Peyton, and Peyton is uh testing in the traditional sense. He's he's out of high school. I mean, he's and so he's in the traditional school and he is bored to death. Kid is super, super brilliant, autistic, on autistic, and again, I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said on this podcast, but he's on an autistic scale. Um uh like knows like he could tell you the physics of a black hole without and he has many questions about like you know, like why do why did one what why does SpaceX use this rocket gas and another why does NASA use that? I mean, just like like no one can keep up with this kid, nobody in the school, anybody, and and um I'm actually trying to get him in the Mount Michael, we'll see if that happens. I'll probably just text it, but um, because they they they would they can get him into eight advanced placement classes quickly. He can be going to college classes quick. But he's he's mentoring with NASA. I mean, he he has week monthly calls with with an astronaut.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Awesome. Sounds like he has a wonderful supportive.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

He has a good mom. He has a good mom. But what what would you do if, you know, say Brandy heard this podcast and she listens to it, but not that it's even gonna happen. But what would you do with 12-year-old Peyton? I mean, just an example of how would you do it? I mean, how how would it be different than the public school system he's in now? What can you what what would you be able to offer a kid like that?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Opportunities to spend more time seeking out those mentorship opportunities that truly interest him versus having to if he knows that that's where he's going and that's where his passion lies, and that's where he's spending all of his extra time when he's not sitting at school board. Yeah, why don't we provide him the opportunity to pour into those things? You know? Um I say that traditional school is learning just in case. You learn a whole they want you to learn a whole lot of facts about a whole lot of different things just in case in case you need your high school diploma for a job. Just in case it might come up sometime down the road, maybe, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Um we want our leaders to learn just in time, which is more like the real world. A problem presents itself, and you have the ability to think critically through that problem and solve it as it presents itself. So you're learning just in time.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

I love it, right? I love it. So it's unbelievable. So let's get into the rest of the day. Tell them about the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Yeah, so after they the current ages that we have, they spend anywhere, the younger kids spend 30 minutes to an hour on their core skills, the older kids spend an hour and a half to two hours on their core skills, and then they go into some sort of dedicated physical fitness every day.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Um that's what I see listeners every day.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Me being a CrossFit affiliate owner, one of the big things that I felt was missing from the educational experiences Cam had previously was a true commitment to physical health and well-being. And I also firmly, firmly believe that being physically healthy is a precursor to mental health.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Choosing to do hard things intentionally, voluntarily develops our resilience in all areas of our life.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

So this is nothing new.

SPEAKER_04 37:09

This was in the 50s, used to be able to do monkey bars, you had to do push-ups, you had to do all these things.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

There's such a cool documentary about the is it like the LaSalle high school PE? I don't know, it was back in the 50s. It was amazing. Like they were competing to try to earn different colored shorts. Like the gold shorts were the top. And like the standards for these things were incredible, right? So um, three days a week, we walk next door to Kinesis and we do CrossFit Kids.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

It's just three.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Mm-hmm.

unknown 37:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Monday, what Monday, Tuesday, Thursday.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Wednesday, Hoffman's, we have the benefit of having Hoffman's hoop just on the other side. So we go over there and do some team sports type stuff, you know, learning how to throw and dribble and shoot and hit and catch and you know, and fundamental things. Yep, it's part of World Class Fitness in a hundred words from Greg Glassman. That's right. Um, and then uh Fridays they do jujitsu.

SPEAKER_05 38:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

And so they have that 45 minutes-ish, 45 minutes to an hour of dedicated physical fitness every day. Uh, then we go to lunch, then they uh have um thirty thirty to forty minutes depending on how long it takes for them to move between things. They have 30 to 40 minutes of outside free play time. And as long as it's safe to be outside, we're outside. If it's raining, we're outside. If it's snowing, we're outside. If it's lightning within 20 miles, we're inside. You know, if it's safe to be outside, we are outside, even in uncomfortable weather, right? And there's so much benefit to having free play for the ages that we have right now. They learn how to use their imaginations. Uh, we're not providing like a curated playground for them. They have to make up their own games, make up the rules of engagement for those games, solve conflicts when they come up, figure out how they're gonna make the rules fair.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

This sounds like country school, Nissa. Right? I used to play football two against one, and I was the one.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Yep, and they're figuring they're figuring out how are we gonna make fair teams, how are we going to get this to work and solve conflicts when they come up and use our imaginations. Like it's it's so beneficial for them to have that time to just be kids and figure those things out. Um, after that, we come in for a little rest and digest time where they're just resetting themselves to get focused on getting work done in the afternoon. So it's either quiet reading on their own or last sprint, so our last six weeks set uh sprint. I read Hatchet aloud to all of them because we had like a survival skills-based focus.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Um I got I've never heard of Hatchet, so that's what that is, a survival skill.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, it's a it's about a 13-year-old boy, 14-year-old boy. He's flying in a bush plane up into northern Canada to visit his dad. Plane. And plane crashes, pilot dies. He survives for three months, I think. So it's pretty good. Yeah. Not based on a true story. There are some good ones out there, like my side of the mountain and stuff that are based on true stories. But um that was really fun for me to read that aloud to them. And being able to hear something that's being read to you, recall it, imagine it in your head, um, is a really valuable skill to practice too. So that was that was really fun for me. But, you know, some days it's quiet reading on your own, some days it's a trailblazer reading to a Pathfinder, some days it's you can play a quiet game with one other person, chess or um Moncala or Uno or something like that. Um, and it just resets them, calms them down. After that, we have our afternoon huddle, which is a Socratic discussion. So I am not answering questions. I'm if I'm answering questions, it's with a question. Right. And it's just more Socratic question.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Yeah, it's that was gonna be my next question.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Tell me more. What do you mean by that? Well, what if this were to happen? Would this change your answer? You know, and just helping not helping, guiding, coaching them as they're having a good conversation, you know. Yeah, um, they have guardrails that they've come up with for what needs to happen when we have a respectful conversation, and they are able to hold each other to those guardrails, and um all ages are in that. And the younger ones might not contribute, especially at the beginning of the year, they didn't necessarily contribute to the conversations a whole lot, but it's valuable for them to sit and have older mentors, but they're soaking it up, you know, they're soaking it up, soaking it up, and they're learning, they're learning how to respectfully engage with someone else without getting into an a shouting match. They're learning that you can have differing opinions and still be friends and get along. Yes. When the conversation is done, isn't that something civil discourse and um so those are man, those I learned so much in having those conversations with those kids. One of them that sticks out most to me was they the question that I posed to them one day was a would you rather? And it was, would you rather live in a world with no rules or a world with too many rules? And they I don't know how I'd answer that, they took that Socratic question down the path to it ultimately became do you feel that humans are inherently good or inherently evil?

SPEAKER_03 42:53

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

And these are five to eleven year olds, and I'm just sitting there like, oh my gosh, like these kids are brilliant if we give them the opportunity to sit with their thoughts and express their thoughts and analyze them with other people and bounce their ideas off of each other. Like that that one will probably stick with me forever. How they how they ultimately got to that point in that conversation.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

Crazy. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about the Socratic method because it's I just recently there was a uh series way back when called The Paper Chase. Have you heard of that? Oh, you're gonna have to check out the paper chase. It's about the first year of Harvard Law School, and press Professor Kingsley is a Socratic, uh he's played by John Houseman, a fantastic actor. He's you know, he's been dead for 30 years, but it's uh that's how he teaches by the Socratic method. And it it'll give you chills. Like uh, you know, they go to the first day that he calls on and he has a he has a diagram of like this huge classroom. And pictures and like somebody's always the first boy. And and um this is back before there were computers, folks. There so now your assignments are emailed to you. But the assignments were posted on the board before the first day. You had to write, you had to read about a case. Of course, nobody read the damn thing. And so, but it was just it's um, I think you'd really enjoy it. It's called the paper chase. So you can I think it's on YouTube even. Um there was a series and then there's a movie, but um check that out, listeners, if you want to know the Socratic method is, because it's just um question after question after question, this law, you know, he'll say, and and but one student goes and then and then he'll call another student. But what about this? What about that? And you know, just it's it's fascinating to watch. And I can only imagine you conducting a uh a discussion like that with those kids. I mean, you you you saw the fruits of that. So it's pretty that's pretty cool stuff.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

That's so fun. We and I don't we have our buckets that we hit and we have a schedule, but if a conversation is going, if a conversation starts in our in our morning huddle and it's going, I'm not gonna cut them off. I'm gonna keep them going because I just I believe that there's so much value in listening to other people's thoughts, considering the way how their brain works different differently than you, and considering there are opposite opposing views that you maybe haven't considered.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

And oh, by the way, if you ever want to put together a team of people in business or sports or whatever it is, you probably are gonna, I'm I'm gonna like you and I are not like Jeff Bettsworth at all, right? Not at all. Probably not, probably not, but did but do you want that guy on your team? You're damn well because we share some core values. And but I want that guy on my team. And he wants me on his, trust me, he wants me on his team too.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Well, and he fills a role on my team that I know that I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

Yeah, it can't he can't do. Right. Right. I mean we and so that's that's really neat too to understand how people are wired differently, but just because they're wired differently doesn't mean you can't work with them. Hell, you want you want to work with that person. It's called perspective, yeah, and looking at things differently.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

So we encourage that, and then that carries through, having that perspective carries right through to the rest of the afternoon where they do their project-based learning. And so they're working together at collaboratively on projects that are around a central theme for each sprint. And so, you know, our our sprint one was what does it mean to live by a code? So they had to were encouraged to have discussions with their families at home about what is their family's core values, what is the code that we live by? How do Coens show up in the world is what we say in our house.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yeah. Um and then we use words like honor, code, loyalty, and they're never mind.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Honor, bravery, integrity, politeness. Um so that they were encouraged to have those conversations, and then we had conversations on campus about like, well, who determines that code? How did how did you guys arrive at that? And how, if you're writing your own personal code now, does it align exactly with your family? Or does it share some things that your whole family shares? And maybe you have a couple things that are important to you that are different. And then we took everybody's personal codes, saw where they lined up to decide our four core values that we were gonna establish as our code for the year. And so that was our first six weeks was building that community and that code for how we were gonna show up for each other for the year. Yeah, and so the four things that they chose were live with integrity, show compassion.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

Integrity's a big word for some of those kids.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Be honest and keep our bodies strong.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

That's what your I'm sorry, that's what that's their four.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yep, that's their four that they wanted to focus on for this year. And so then they have some yours, theirs. Yep, and then they have some actions that what are the actionable things that we can do to demonstrate those. And so that's up on our board. Um we review it at the start of every sprint, and then you know, if if it seems like they're forgetting the code, we'll come back and we'll review it again. And and they're encouraged to to say to each other, like, hey, honesty is one of our is on our code. Are you being honest right now? You know? Um and how do you how do we respectfully You can't handle the truth. Um and then so that was number one, sprint number two. We spent six weeks um on being the CEO of your own life, setting goals. What is the importance of having a routine, going to bed at the same time on the weekends? Yeah, make personal responsibility great again, right? Um so that was CEO of their own life. After that, we did a health equals wealth, where they um developed, they learned about how to develop workouts and what goes into how I develop the workouts for them that they do at CrossFit Kids. We learn we investigated, you know, the importance of protein, the importance of carbohydrates, the importance of fats at age-appropriate levels, you know, so protein makes us strong, fruits and vegetables help us not get sick, fats help our bot our brains, and carbohydrates give us energy, right? And then expound on that for the as they get older and go into more nuanced detail. We did a project on added sugar so they would have a visual representation of how much added sugar is in things, right? Where we looked at the label, they learned how to read nutrition labels and how to read ingredient lists. Um and then they got to go to the grocery store and put those things into practice as they were buying the ingredients for healthy snacks that they were making.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

That's just so awesome.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Um the next one after that was Oh man. I'm drawing a blank. But the next one after that was seeking sovereignty and tying that into survival skills as well. So, what does it mean to be a sovereign nation? What does it mean to be a sovereign being? How do we earn more freedoms by taking on more responsibilities and showing our parents that we're capable of handling those responsibilities, so then they're willing to give us more freedoms. We're able to do the things we want to do because we've taken care of the things we need to do. Um, and then we tied that into like shelter building, fire starting, um, water purification, that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

Wow. Um I need to sit in this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

This sprint, we are doing that shark tank, like I mentioned, and then sprint seven, the last one of the year, will be entrepreneurship, so they'll take a product to market.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

When so you started in about Labor Day?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Yep, September.

SPEAKER_04 51:17

September, and you will end of June.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

So we end of June. Yep, we have a 10-month year.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

You took a big break there though in April, it's uh it seems like we do a 10-month year.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

So we go September, beginning of September to the end of June, 10 months, and then they have those sprints that are about five to six weeks long, and they're separated by a one or two-week break. So they have longer breaks throughout the year, which allows the families the freedom to do more traveling, yeah, um, spend time together as a family, right? Um yeah, so that's kind of how that how that goes.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

That's that that that's that was an awesome answer. I mean, I've got all these other questions, but they don't yeah, they uh they don't really seem I mean you you kind of cover it all. I I guess one of my questions would be is if say uh do you I you know parents are a big thing here, and um if someone wants to apply to be apogee, there I assume there's the screening process. I mean you you don't want say there was somebody that you just know that the parents is like gonna dump them off and pick them up and that's it. You that's that's a that's a no-go.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

They're not an apogee family, yeah. That's a no-go. Yeah, we don't qualify. So we'd we start with an intro, an intro call on Zoom, where just getting faces in front of each other, uh, the parents and I um don't ask for the the kiddos to be there for that yet. Um and that's their chance to get their questions answered, right? But the questions they ask tells me a lot about them as well, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:54

Well, I would ask you you have reading, writing, and math. Is my kid gonna know how to read, write, and and and and and do math when he gets out of here?

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah. And so then after that, if they're interested in going to the next step, then they would submit an application um for the family. And so the questions are mostly open-ended questions. Um, you know, what is the perfect, what do you envision for the education of your children? Um what what will you do to continue the growth of your family if you aren't selected to be an apogee family at this time? You know, um stuff like that. And after that, if that's comes through and we feel like their answers align with what we're building with this community, then um we would invite them in for a family interview. And we we ask that all members of the household come in. And that would include if they have learners that they're not wanting to be considered for apogee, if they're younger, if they're older, if they're thriving where they're at. We want to see the how the entire family dynamic goes. So we invite them onto campus for a family interview. Uh if that goes well, then they're invited for the kids to come for a trial day, spend a full day with us. Um me and my assistant coach Kim are obviously, you know, seeing how they're interacting with the group. Are they self-driven? Are they willing to take responsibility for their own education? You know, or are they just content to sit back and twiddle their thumbs when they're given their free time? You know. Um and then we also after after a a kid or kids come in for a trial day, we uh debrief the next day with the learners too. So the current kids that are in our community get a chance to give their feedback on their experiences with the kids when they came in.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

So the same for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Yeah, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Send everybody else to public school.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Ideally building more and more families that this is the way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

And um, you know, there's also processes in place, opportunities in place to because not everybody can afford a private private education.

SPEAKER_04 55:34

Most people can't.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah. So as one of the things that really drew me bes, you know, the values, number one, were what drew me to apogee. Number two was the commitment to health and fitness. Number three was that it was focused on the growth of the entire family. So families that are full-time at Apogee Omaha, the parents get access to the Apogee Man and Apogee Woman online mentorship program, which is a 12-month mentorship program where they have each month has a different theme and they're completing projects based around that theme. They have a book list to choose from around that theme, and then they have weekly calls with everybody that they came on with their class, um, where they're discussing different topics around that theme. And then they have either a monthly or every other week a mentor call where some sort of leader in some sort of industry area is coming in to tell their story, answer questions that the Apogee Men and Apogee women have. Um people like, like I was on a call with Tulsi Gabbard, a Zoom call with Tulsi Gabbard as a mentorship call. Dr. Jamie Seaman here in town has been an Apogee Women mentor. Um Tim Kennedy has been a mentor. Different actors have come on as mentors. Um, Patrick Bett David. I don't know. There's a ton of them. We get one a month. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Um, just an opportunity to hear their story and again find those same patterns. Like what are the what are the consistent patterns that we hear from high achievements?

SPEAKER_04 57:24

Very common threads, you know. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

And and so that's how we're we're pouring into these entire families and helping the entire family grow. But also, oh, I was saying why I was drawn to apogee. So those are kind of the four things. And then the last piece was because they have the apogee strong foundation established already. And so people can make donations to the Apogee Strong Foundation. It's a 501c3, and then if they want to, they can earmark for a specific campus or affiliate, and those can be used to create scholarship funds. There's a general scholarship endowment that's being built out. Um, so they also, you know, something they've done to help build out that endowment is they bought an existing credit card processing company. And so normally the way Stripe, Square, any of the credit card processing companies work is that processing company takes a flat, usually right around 3% at least, yeah, processing fee off of the charges that come through, right?

SPEAKER_04 58:32

Well, they're taking it off. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say the charges are more than that. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Yeah. Um, so you know, us at the gym, if we charge $200 for a membership, three percent of that is going to the credit card processing company if it's being run on credit card, right?

SPEAKER_04 58:47

I hope you're teaching your kids about cash payments versus credit because it really is pissing me off out there. This this uh side payment. Yeah, cashless it's it's you can't it it it's nuts. I uh all weekend long I was at a music festival and I could not, I had plenty of cash, they wouldn't touch it. And and you I hope you're teaching your kids like you know that prices are hiked up to cover these other people that can't really afford this, that are running up their credit, and so now I'm getting stuck with higher prices because these other people aren't responsible enough to manage their own affairs, and so everybody is just credit, credit, credit, credit, credit. So I hope you're teaching these folks the difference between cash and credit. Thank you. That was my release of release of the day.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Do we want to go into fiat currency versus gold standard or silver standard? No, I don't know enough about that. Do we need to go back to it?

SPEAKER_04 59:45

Um it just yeah. I don't know how I got off on that.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Oh, you're talking about credit cards, but um so they they bought a an existing credit card purchasing company and it's now apogee pays. And so that 3% that gets come you know taken off as the processing fee, 50% of that goes to keep the processing company going, right? Right because there is some infrastructure.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

Yes, it costs money to process transactions, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

But the other 50% goes directly into the Apogee Strong Foundation.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

Oh, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

That's a very nice building out that endowment to be able to provide scholarship opportunities.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

Yeah, they qualify. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, what advice would you for uh say somebody wants to open up an apogee school? How what would what advice would you give them? Because like I said, I I wanted to interview you after months of this, not on day one. Um I mean, what have you learned?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

What what um I think with any endeavor that you go into have a firm, firm grasp on your why. Why are you doing it? You know, I'm I'm not scared to say selfishly the reason that I'm doing this is to build the education that I want for my son. And bring along as many families who have share the same vision and values. Um have a clear vision for your why because that there are there have been weeks where you know I hit Friday and I'm like, oh my gosh, what just happened?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

But there have never been You mean kids will be kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

There has never been a week where I have said, I can't do this anymore, or this isn't what I should be doing, or that this challenge and struggle, hardship, whatever, isn't worth it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:44

Well, it looks like to me, I mean, just talking to you and I just looking, I mean, I could see it in your eyes, um, it seems to be very rewarding for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

It is, yeah. Um I I never thought that this is where I would be, you know what I mean? But I'm also somebody that's I love coaching CrossFit. I love being an affiliate owner, but more importantly, I love impacting people, right? And so this is another way that I can impact more.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

There are other things besides CrossFit that I I try and educate folks you that we all know. Um there are other things besides CrossFit in this world. Um, but some of those the the core values and all these things to be successful are all the same. They're all the same across the board. Across the board. Um is there anything that I haven't that we that we we haven't covered that we should?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

Gosh, I don't know. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

I mean, I have like 10 other questions, but you've answered them all, basically. It would be redundant for me to ask. I mean, I think this has been a very comprehensive discussion, and I I appreciate it. Now, if somebody wanted to um what's your website? How do they get a hold of you? What's what's the protocol?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Yeah. Our website is apogeeomaha.org.

unknown 1:03:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

A-p-o-g-e-e-omaha.org.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Correct. If you go to apogeeomaha.com, it'll take you to like some financial services thing, I think. So dot org for the website. Um, and we are at apogeeomaha on Instagram. You can find Oh, I didn't know you were on.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

Did I know you're on AG? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Yep. You can find us uh on Facebook too, Apogee Omaha. I will say that I am so focused on educating these leaders that I don't put as much effort into the social media as I probably should. That's soft language. I don't put as much effort into it as I should.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

Well, I I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

So someday we'll uh But it'll, you know, if you go back through our posts, it'll give you a good, a good overview of Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:03

Well, I I think if you listen to this podcast, you're gonna get a pretty damn good interview, a pretty good, uh, pretty good uh overview of what it's all about. Now, my last question is this that you've heard you're talking about all these wonderful things about apogee and so forth. I just I chuckled one day because I don't even remember what you said to me. You'd said it under your breath, and I don't even know if you were addressing me specifically, but I was in there and I can't remember what you said, but I just laughed my butt off because it was just a it was one of those moments because kids because kids will be kids. And even Nissa is challenged sometimes, and oh often. Uh is there so how's that been? I mean, is it was it is it is it harder than you thought, or about what you thought, or um because I I honest to God, it's it's one of the one of the reasons again, one of the reasons I wanted to interview you after months and months of this is because I I kind of knew that like and you knew it too, you're not you're you're you're capable of this thought, but I mean I knew that you were gonna be challenged a little bit with these kids because kids will be kids. Yeah, some and and and and it will get better, I think, based on all these things that just the teaching methods and so forth. I think it's probably better atmospheres for for kids to to be kids because you're letting kids be kids, but they're still gonna be kids in the sense of they may not listen to you. Yeah, they're they're and you don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Their prefrontal cortexes are not fully developed.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

That's right. So so I don't know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

But that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

I also I don't want them to listen to me as an authority figure because I'm a grown up. But I also want to help coach them in how do we respectfully disagree? How do we respectfully Ask questions if we're not sure that what we're being told to do online. Right. You know. Um, and so some things it is we've gotten into our groove as the year has gone on. I would say I I'm gonna knock on wood. Things have have gotten easier, right? And and part of that is is the group of leaders we have in there and the families that we have in there. Um, I think initially some of the challenges that we encountered as a group um were that some of some of the learners were coming from a traditional school environment, right? And so they are used to diff deferring to as the adult in the room as the authority, authority figure. And so it was challenging for them when I would say, I don't have all the answers. This is something that you're capable of figuring out. I want you to go figure it out, you know, and so that was challenging for them. They um, but we also had a good mix of kids who had been in this type of self-driven education, and that they were used to trying to solve problems themselves before seeking help from, you know, they were used to f trying to solve it themselves and then ask a peer and then come to the coach, right? And so they were good mentors for these kid. The other kids who weren't used to this to show them, no, this is how we want to do things. And there's a learning curve, you know. So when when kiddos do come in that have been in a traditional school setting, that would be one challenge and obstacle that has been hard to that I don't say it's hard to overcome, that takes time to overcome, right? And the other one is um checking boxes, like doing work just to have the box checked, rather than finding work that's interesting to them and challenging for them.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:13

And stimulating their brain and all those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Yep, you know, some that's all school was to me was checking boxes. That's all it was.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:21

I mean, I got through through college on three by five index cards. Yeah, I I memorized stuff. I that was it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

That's exactly, and I think that's a lot of school is short-term memorization, regurgitate it, and then forget it. Yeah, right? Um I yeah, I learned this I learned the game of school and how to be successful in school.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Um successful. Competed in the game of school and you were good at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

Yeah, like I I got my four plus GPA and my 32 on my ICT, but what does that matter now? What I use now is the experiences that I've amassed over years in the in the field.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

There are a lot of master's degrees out there uh working fast food, and and God bless them for doing it. But I mean it's not uh it it's a different world than what in what that we live in. Um I'm gonna leave it at that. I'm gonna leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Um there was one other thing that's that was challenging that I was thinking of being scared to fail.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:25

Ah, fear of failure is one that has been. Petrified. I that was that was the experience I had in school. Scared to death. Scared to death to speak up, to to raise my hand, to say something, scared to death that I would be called on. Because fear of failure scared me to death. It does to it it scares me now, it motivates me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

Yeah. And you know, scared to scared that my answer might be the wrong answer.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

Right. And you're like, you know you fool, you dummy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

So helping them see that that's how we learn.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

Making mistakes is how we learn, failing is how we learn. I always say failing is good, that's how we learn. And then we try again. Where it becomes an issue is when it becomes failure, and that's when you quit. Because you've failed. So failing is good as long as we keep going, but failure won't be tolerated on campus. We don't quit.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:20

Love it. We don't quit. Thanks, Susan.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Yeah, thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:25

Lots of fun.