*** SPECIAL REPEAT EPISODE *** - The Egghead Mentored by a Cowboy - with Special Guest Jack McHenry

In this special repeat episode from Season 1; host Sam Fischer and his cousin Jack explore the intersection of cowboy values and modern business practices.

They discuss their shared family history, the legacy of their grandfather Bill Fischer, and how cowboy principles can be applied in today's world.  Sam and Jack are the only two grandsons of Bill Fischer who did not go into ranching.  

Jack, a chief commercial officer, explains marketing in simple terms, emphasizing the importance of relationships and integrity in business. The dialogue highlights the need for both cowboys and eggheads in society, advocating for collaboration between different perspectives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cowboys, Not Eggheads. Home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggheads. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys. And let's keep the conversation alive on Facebook and Twitter. And now, Cowboys Not Eggheads with Sam Fisher.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Welcome to Cowboys Not Eggheads. Today we have a very special guest who's a relative, my first cousin. His name is Jack McHenry. Jack and I uh shared the same grandfather, Bill Fisher, who we've talked about a little bit on this podcast, but we might dive into that subject a little bit more today. Jack is what I would classify as a pure egghead. It's up to him to convince me otherwise, or to convince my listeners that he's not an egghead. Jack has a uh BA, uh a bachelor's of arts from Michigan, University of Michigan. But he also has an MBA, a Master's of uh Business Administration. Is that right? Is that what the acronym stands for? That's right. From Fordham Gabali, Gabelli School of Business. Business. Yeah, I can't read mine. So that's impressive as hell. Uh a fisher with an MBA. I think your mom was probably the first fisher with the MBA that I know of.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

She had an MBA, she had like eight degrees. She had like a journalism degree, an art degree, art history. I think she's a Spanish minor.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Well, during my college graduation, I don't think you were there, but your mom was there, and my dad was half-tuned, and you know, JBB and JB's he's like sure, he's like uh he goes, I paid for this thing, and I'm gonna say a few words. And so he got up and started bragging about me, how I'd been the first fisher to ever graduate from college, and your mom was not very happy with that. Yeah, I'm sure she was not happy about that. Yes, not at all. The egghead corrected the record immediately.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Uh so that's good. So you consider her to be an egghead then, because that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Uh I oh no, I I think she was a cowboy who who who became an egghead, which is frankly sort of what I am. I mean, I've been truthful about that, and I'll be truthful about it as this thing unfolds. But I agree with that. I mean, uh she certainly uh you you can take the cowboy out of uh Valentine, but you can't take the Valentine out of the cowboy. And she was certainly certainly that way.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Uh as am I. Um so Jack is uh because uh because uh we share the same grandfather and we both know what he was all about, uh I'm going to read straight off of off of your LinkedIn uh profile exactly what you do. And so this is gonna be interesting. So Jack is a chief commercial officer for a company called, which isn't in my notes, because what is the dialect dialect. So he's a chief commercial officer of dialect. So what does that mean? It means he has expert expertise in the following areas: strategic business planning, experience valuing potential deals and opportunities. He also has expertise in business development and partnership management, proven track record of cultivating and building long-term profitable relationships with business customers and partners. Also, contract negotiations, experience negotiating and managing partners for custom communication solutions.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

That's a word salad.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, we're not even done yet. Uh the entertainment marketing programs, he also has expertise in that, excellent working knowledge of content and media industries, including familiarity with large media companies, studios, mobile content aggregators. What the f dude? Mobile content aggregators, internet portals, wireless technology, and markets. He also has expertise in PL and financial analysis. I assume PL stands for profit and loss. Last time I knew that's right. Uh experience evaluating market positioning and performing competitive financial analysis. His specialties, and that's just that's his expertise, but his specialties are brand, engagement, content marketing, mobile apps, digital magazines, video production, cross-channel media, print magazines, websites, retention and acquisition strategies, planning and research, advertising media, data analysis, and CRM. Now, that is awesome. It's impressive. Uh is it though? Is it really selling? Hold on, hold on. It's impressive. Uh and uh I remember my dad, who who, you know, I was 25 years in my career, and he goes, I I wish I knew what you did so I could brag about you. So my grandfather would be very pleased. I think Bill Fisher would be very pleased with Jack McHenry. But if I just if he were alive today sitting next to me and I just read all that, he would say, What in the f do you do? So tell us in Bill Fisher Speak what it is that you do. If if you were to explain to Bill Fisher, and you're actually explaining to Sam Fisher at the moment, mobile content aggregator, what the f talk to us in cowboy speak, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

So that that that description sounds a lot like a keyword, word salad for the LinkedIn, you know, algorithms to go out there and you know figure out how to connect people, right? I mean, you know, at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

No, it doesn't, it's not right at all, dude. You have to talk like cowboy, talk to a cowboy. What does that mean? What is an algorithm?

SPEAKER_04 5:37

So, well, an algorithm, obviously, it you can't. It's not obvious to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

You're answering it. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Well, an algorithm is algebraic at its root, right? But it goes out, you know what algebraic means. Come on now. Algebraic at its root.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Bill Fisher wouldn't know what algebraic would mean necessarily. You're talking to Bill Fisher, he's sitting right here.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

So algorithms go out and they are they're programmed that that can do a bunch of different functions. When you get served ads on Facebook, there's an algorithm that figures out what your interests are, what you've clicked on, what you've done before in the past, the videos you've viewed, who you followed, right? There's a bunch of inputs that go out there, and they say, hey, we're gonna whittle this down, and and I can then go feed Let me rephrase this, Jack.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Sell to a cowboy what it is you do, sell to a cowboy with an eighth grade graduation who is a very successful businessman, his name is Bill Fisher. Explain to that cowboy, sell to that cowboy in very simple cowboy terms what it is that you can do for that cowboy.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

So I do marketing, essentially. I and whether that's in you know content that turns into ads, it turns into a customer journey from awareness to consideration to conversion to you know point of purchase and retention. I help you, Bill Fisher, sell your ranch and sell your cows.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Well, I don't want to sell my damn ranch, I want to keep my ranch. How are you gonna do that?

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Oh yes, but people need to be aware that you exist to buy your cows, right? All right, fair interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Fair enough. How are you how how how is it how is it that you're gonna sell my cows?

SPEAKER_04 7:08

How is it that I'm gonna sell your cows? Well, I mean, through a marketing campaign. And whether that's for somebody that doesn't know who you are, which falls into an awareness category, to someone who's no knows who you are, but maybe doesn't know that they should buy from you, that's a consideration campaign. Someone who knows who you are kind of likes what you're doing, and now we're gonna hit them with a marketing campaign that converts them to actually buy your cows.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Now, you knew granddad. What do you think he'd say to all that?

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Well, I mean, look, back in the day, right, he did he he he was his own best marketer, right? I mean, he he propositioned his whole thing on his reputation, right? Yes, solid solid as a rock.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yes, cowboy, yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Cow cowboy, you know, he he his ward was his bond. If you took if you had a handshake with that man, that was all you needed. You didn't need a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yep, take it to the bank.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

You didn't need a piece of paper that said, I'm gonna deliver X number of cows on X number of date at this time, right? He just did it, right? And so in the very small world of ranching, I would imagine, right? Back then, that was what you needed. That was your marketing, that was your brand, you know. And so, you know, it's difficult, it's it's different these days when you have, you know, when you're selling headsets and mice and graphics cards and whatever else, video games or whatever, right? Um, it just it needs to be a little bit more, you know, you need to cast an ad a little bit wider. And so that's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Well, I mean, I'll tell you this. Uh, one thing about him um is that while he had an eighth grade graduation, he he he arguably is one of the smarter people I ever knew. I mean, uh from the standpoint of he always was interested in getting more efficient. Uh uh, and and efficiency meant didn't mean like cutting corners, but it meant like uh uh it meant like doing things in a more practical way. Um and I mean I think that's that's what he'd be interested about.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

I think which well, I think he was curious, and you know, I think Yeah, he was curious. I mean I he he left a big impression on me, and again, you know, he when did he die?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Sam 84 born in 1912, died in 1986.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

So I would have been about you know, 10 years old. I was born 76.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

That was a my first semester at college, yep.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

Right. So so I was about 10 years old, and you know, obviously I'd gone to the ranch and you know, you know, seen him as you know, so and so forth, but the last probably year of his life, he was in Lincoln because he was going through chemo.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

And that's probably what 80% of your memory of him is the like because he lived with it.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Yeah, well, he lived with us, right? And I mean, I remember well I watched him die, and you know, he it was he he spent Christmas, he he was there long enough to have a Christmas with us, where we turned his bed from the sunroom to the living room where so he could see us all open presents and stuff. But you know, before he was just completely bedridden, yeah, we would talk and and and you know, we like you know, he would just you know talk about the cowboy coat almost, you know, like you know, take pride in your work and you know, finish what you start and all that kind of fun stuff, right? Be you know, tough but fair. Keep your preview. If you make a promise, keep it. Yeah, you know, and and that's what I remember, right? And then of course I couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

He knew he he he he meant what he said. I mean the guy's guy around.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

I mean oh no, he meant what he said. And of course, you know, at at at 10 or you know, eight or nine or whatever, right? The curse words were hilarious. Right? Because, you know, you weren't allowed to swear, but here's Bill Fisher at a dinner table.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Pass assault, you know. You're just you're you're you know, your head's on a swivel, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Like looking around, like how's mommy's in a corral, that's uh very young age. I learned those words, and and uh sometimes you had to use them to defend yourself. Um exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

That's exactly right. Well, and you know, at the same time, you're like, well, how's mom gonna react to this? What's my dad gonna think? You know, like it was uh the whole dynamic at the table, right? It was very it was very impressionable, right? But I mean it left a mark, you know. Like it left a mark.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

I remember when I was younger, he uh he had a uh and and grandma. I don't know if you remember grandma edna at all. I mean, she do, yeah, I know I do. So she was she was polar opposite, she was very quiet, very appropriate. Who was she was an egghead, she was an MBA from Columbia University. She she had this whole different life before she even you know met my grandfather, met Bill Fisher. But I remember um I remember she we had a for a while mom was trying to to tamp down the cursing in our in the fisher household. And so we had a you know, had a a dime fine every time somebody cursed. And so you know, with kids, we were just we were sitting there, you know, learning how to add, knowing you know, counting how much granddad. And and uh I just I remember like he goes, Well, I guess I owe a debt here, you know, and he puts a couple of bucks in the jar, and and I just remember the smile on grandma's face. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Well, he was he he he was the type of guy that he would be on a phone talking cattle prices, whatever, and I remember this. He would write his notes uh in pen on the arm of his leather chair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And you know, he didn't even you know for our listeners, he had a little um gosh, I don't know what you call them, they're just a tiny little notebook, uh notebook.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Yeah, they like almost pocket. It's pocket.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

It's a pocket size that he always carried. He usually carried two of them in his pocket. My dad and my uncle Bruce did the same thing for years, and everything in the world was on this thing. But uh that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

His life, his entire life, finances the whole night.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

He was used to like, you know, usually on the horse he he used his saddle horn as is his desk, and and in this case he used the arm of a chair. He probably just used it. I mean, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Uh he just he you know, and watched him write down a bunch of numbers because it was probably price per pound or whatever it was, right? And I just I kept thinking that's gonna go away. Like, I would where's the record of that, right? Like, you know, we're just gonna wipe that off and start over again. Yeah, but it was in his head and he had made a promise and he was gonna keep it and he had it all together, you know. I mean, he was I he was a smart guy. I you know, uh aside from the cowboy upbringing, I mean you might classify him as an egghead because he he had it together. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Oh, yeah, he definitely did.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so you know, so you're a relative of cowboys, and I I uh you have yet to prove to me that you're that you are a cowboy. I think you're much more egghead, and that's all right, because we don't, I mean, on this show we've talked about the differences, and I think the world needs both, but the whole contention of this podcast is I'd rather have a few more cowboys than a few more eggheads. Um but you're a relative of of of of cowboys, uh, you know, uh your your mother, uh Nadine, who's a brilliant, brilliant artist who recently passed away. Um she grew up on the ranch, it was very important to her. And you obviously spent some time out on the Sunny Slope Ranch in Cherry County. Um tell me about those experiences. I mean, were you shipped often, and this I don't remember, Jack, were you like shipped off for a week, or was it just just on holidays, or did you ever spend any extended times out there?

SPEAKER_04 14:12

So we so we would come out for holidays, but we'd always stay, because you know, from Wake into Valentine, what's a five-hour drive, six-hour drive? Yes, yes, yes, something like that. So it wasn't a trip that you'd make lightly, right? Like it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a trip that you just go like, oh, I'm gonna go for the day and come back. Um, although I'm sure they do, because in Nebraska you drive eight hours everywhere, right? But you know, we'd stay there for a while. So I watched, I I I would come out for calfing season a little bit and and you know, go out and kick the cattle with you know, grandpa and and in you know, February 40 negative 45 degree weather, you know. I watched Bruce kill a coyote off the hood of his coat.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

See your egghead by calling him a coyote, just so you know we we call it. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 14:51

What do you call it? Coyote. Coyote is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

No coyote, it ain't while a coyote, it's a coyote, and he's damn dead, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

And he's damn dead. I remember I was in a truck with Bruce and young and he stopped and he's like, hold on a second. Got his gun off the roof rack from just behind him, went out on the hood of his car, boom, shot, shot it, and I didn't know what he was doing. Did we drive down, you know, pasture.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It's rather jarring, isn't it? I mean, I I I recently had a friend from California, a real good guy, and we were out feeding cattle with my brother. This is six years ago, so just recently. Same thing. Will just stops on the brakes in the mill pickup, and and my buddy Josiah has no idea what's going on. I know what's going on. There's a coyote right over there about 40 yards, and we'll just pull a gun out of a freaking rifle out of nowhere, and boom.

unknown 15:42

Boom.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So I mean it's it's kind of jarring if you're not used to that, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:46

Yeah, well, I mean, and I'm as a young kid at the time. So, anyway, so we drive down, we throw it in the back of the pickup truck, we finish our rounds, you know, we go out. I got to pull the rope to kick the cattle, right? Where the pellets drop out and little piles and all the cows come. And by the time we get back for lunch, I I guess you guys was it dinner? You guys call it dinner?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Um, dinner. Noon meal is definitely dinner time. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah, noon meal is dinner time. Right, which is different than most people. Supper is a good idea. Because supper, supper is the evening.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Dinner is the yeah, dinner time. That's a big deal. Dinner time.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Dinner time. Dinner time because you've been working all morning. So we get back, and I look in the back of the pickup truck, and that coyote, coyote, sorry, that coyote is frozen solid. You know, absolutely frozen solid, bullet hole right in its like, you know, side. Yeah, perfect shot. So I remember that kind of thing. And I also remember during cabbing season and walking in the walking in the barn, and Bruce had, or maybe it was Jay, it might have been Bill, had his arm all the way up trying to get a breach calf out, right? With the with the plastic all the way up to his shoulder. And that blew my mind. You know, like I mean, you you either you're watching. Everybody gets to see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

Not everyone gets to see. So, you know, and sure enough, got it out. And the you know, all the liquid that came out after it, so on and so forth. I mean, those were like really impressionable. I remember planting trees with with Bill on you know on the sunny slope, and you know, him saying, I'm doing this so that in 50 years, they won't have to deal with the you know, my family won't have to deal with the wind, right? Like coming over the slope, right? So he was always always a forward-thinking guy. And yeah, I mean he was he was very impressionable in my life for sure. And and you know, as I said, he died when I was probably 10, so I didn't get to know him for very long, but it was a couple intense years of cancer treatment, but a lot you know, a few times at the ranch where you know we were the we would be there for you know a week or two at a time and come over Easter or stay for a big over Easter egg hunts in your backyard with powder horn, you know, which I've got a nice hat right there of.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

You know, so yeah, I mean, it's uh you know, it's a personal restaurant. I would say, you know, if you know, if you consider me an egghead, and I would argue that yes, I've I've gone gone to you know higher education or whatnot, but well so have I.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I mean so have I. I went to the number one rated high school in Nebraska. I went to uh uh you know, I went to the University of Nebraska uh studied in drinking beer.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

But um But I don't but I don't consider myself to be book smart by any stretch of the imagination.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

In fact, you know Did you like studying?

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Well, no, but I did it because you had to do it, and it was important to get good grades too.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Now that's a cowboy attitude applied towards being an ACAD.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

You know, I mean I did I I didn't enjoy it, but I did it. And I got good grades. I was I was 4.0. Uh school easy for you?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

I mean, did you have to I mean I I did I wasn't good at it. I hadn't I memorized.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

I I I made my way through college uh with three by five flashcards, just memorized stuff, didn't really I would say that I would say that school school wasn't easy from the vantage point that I just got it, right? Like my wife's a genius, like she can look at something and just understand right, right? She got it, right? Studying was easy for me, right? Because that's just how my brain worked. Like I was like, okay, you want to test me on this material, I will read that material, I will understand it for the Mo, and I will take a test on it, and I'll do good on that test, right? But in life, most of the things I learned was by just getting my dedicated. And then it was, and then it was don't do that again, right? So, like the one trick for me growing up, and this was through college and you know, starting several businesses and starting dialect and the whole thing, was don't make the same mistake twice. If you can do that, you're on the right track because at the end of the day, everyone's gonna f up, right? And I encourage people that work for me to f up because that means you're taking risks. That means you're trying to understand something you don't understand, you're trying to get outside your country.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Trying to get ahead, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

Yeah, but and that's cool. I encourage that, right? In in my world, it's not a mistake, it's the learning. You're learning, right? And so if you continue to make the same mistake over and over and over again, well, that's like psychopath.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, you know, insanity, the classic one.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Yeah, yeah. Exactly right. Like now we're not on now, we're not talking the same game. But as long as you can like, you know, understand what you're doing. But I wouldn't consider myself smart by any stretch of the imagination. Like, I mean, I don't think don't just come naturally. Maybe talking a lot and being a pleasant, you know, that kind of fun stuff, but you know, I I book smarts was not my jam. Like, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Well, it sounds like you've uh probably soaked a few few life lessons from the cowboy, the cowboy code. How have you how have you applied the cowboy code or what is the cowboy code to you? What what how have you applied what you learned from granddad to what you do now?

SPEAKER_04 20:56

So I I actually apply it in a lot of ways. Um I apply it in in in raising kids. I've got I've got two kids, they're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

They are awesome.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

You know, they're they're absolutely great. John, whose birthday is Monday, is gonna turn 12, and Ella is 13 right now. She's and she's gonna be 14 in April. She's going to high school next year.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, good luck, by the way. Those things called hormones change. Good luck to you, Belle.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Oh, well, it's not it's uh I already see it, and that happened that's happening in front of my face. But Ella's like spitting image personality-wise than me. So, like arguing with her next year. Dude, arguing with her is like arguing with a mirror. I mean, it's crazy, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Don't know, don't else smart smart the mirror.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

No, exactly. So, but but but to that point, you know, when you talk about, you know, take pride in your work, you know, always start what you finish, you know. You know, when you make a promise, you keep it, you know, that kind of thing. Those are like key things for me in in in raising kids because you know, at the end of the day, I feel like You got from zero to probably, you know, I don't know, ten years old, eight years old, right? To j to set them on a path that is, are you a good person? Right? Are you like do you do what you say and do you say what you do? Right? Do you do you, you know, know when to draw a line in the sand, right? You know, are you know like do you do the things that the cowboys talk about, right? To make you a good person, make you, you know, not a person, right? And if I could instill that in kids, which I've tried to do in mine, because after 10 or 11 or 12, dude, they're gonna it's over, dude. They're trying to figure out on their own. And they need to.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I mean, they need to.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

And they and they need to, and they're gonna f it up ridiculous, right? But do you get back on the horse, right? Do you finish what you start? Do you take pride in your work? So that's what I'm trying. So I in my daily life, I I definitely have this code that that I try to instill. And then I would say in starting companies and and in specifically dialect, this is like these these principles are mantras at our company. And I think that it makes a great do you run into Jack.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Do you run into people in business that don't they have no idea what you're talking about? I mean, I mean, it's it's it's to me, it's shocking. Um, and I just I'm old enough now, I just don't deal with people like that.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Well, I would say yes, Sam, and I don't do business with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah. And I'm in politics, so it's makes it really hard for me because that's gotta be a steal and it's uh that's gotta be a hornet still.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

It's right up there.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, it's right up there with uh you know being a prostitute or something. I I mean it's it's um it I mean and I I mean in in politics, I I I in my in my business, I've uh I've probably lost business because I just flat out won't play I won't play that game. I don't I don't play games. Uh there's nothing wrong with that. I'm looking for people that want to embrace it. Uh the people that don't want to embrace it go away. I mean I've fi I I have fired clients. I mean, you know, like I've you know, and it's it's refreshing. And I I would I would argue I've made more money by firing clients you know than taking those on that are paying that that just don't you know we don't mesh or the the values aren't congruent.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

But my dad, you know, when I started he knew my dad well.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah smartest the smartest his dad is the smartest man, probably the smartest guy I ever knew. I I feel like I've said that before in this podcast, but uh he he's definitely top five. And and not only smart, but he was wise. But uh go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Yeah, no, what yeah, we know wisdom is definitely has a lot to do with it as well. But you know, so when I started Dialect, he he gave me sort of a roadmap and said, Yeah, um among many things in this roadmap, he said, what you want is you you've got A clients, you've got B clients, and you've got C clients. And you're always trying to move a C client to be a B client, and you're always trying to move a B client to be an A client. And if they won't do it, then you cut them loose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

You want to keep your GPA up, baby.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Yeah, you know, it is like, you know, and you know, and he had definitions for you know, pay your bills on time, good to work with, that kind of fun stuff, right? In the same space space you were, you know, kind of thing. But but the principle of it was, you know, you work with good people, right? You work with good people, and I would say, you know, as as dialect, uh, all our clients are great. And that's not a bullshit plug, right? That's like, you know, it genuinely.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Well, you're in it for and I've talked to people about lifelong relationships. I mean, really, what is a client relationship? You know, it's it's a it's a long-term deal. It's not a for sure. If it's a transactional deal, then it's not gonna work because you you you know, uh when you're in the foxhole with somebody, you kind of gotta know what you got there. And and just go on the fly, and it's not gonna that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

And I would say that you know, every you know, every relationship I try to cultivate, which is that big word salad you listed at the beginning with you know LinkedIn profiles, the the the crux of it, if you're gonna explain it to Bill Fisher, is you know, let's build a great relationship together so that we can work together for a long period of time.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

So, you know, you boom, you just nail it. And a grandad would understand. That's all you had to say. You were so uptight before, you were like almost defensive. And I wasn't I wasn't trying to bust your bolts.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I mean, I was you were Sam, don't a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Um, but that's I mean, you just summed it up. I mean, that's where it is. That's where it is.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

I mean, and that's and that's how I've always got it.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And you know your stuff, you know. Trust me, I know my stuff. I mean, that's that's basically basically what it is.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Or the people or the people that work for dialect know their stuff, which they do, right? There's a lot of like a lot of that stuff. I I I understand I'm dangerous at a cocktail party about it, right? But like there are definitely people that that are at dialect that know way more than me about your algorithm on how media buying and tracking works than I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Sure. But because they're an expert at it, they're an egghead. And by God, you do need an egghead at your company. I mean, nothing wrong with eggheads, they they make the world go around. I mean, I've talked about this podcast before. Like, you look at the Manhattan Project, that was that was a cowboy idea, but they could not do that without the freaking egghead. Correct. And, you know, you look at Apollo 13. What's an astronaut? To me, an astronaut is the guy that's the half out half cowboy, half egghead. So that's right. Nothing wrong with eggheads. That's correct. I just, again, my contention is I'd rather have a few more eggheads than a few more. No, you'd rather have a few more cowboys. Good God. I was on woof. That's a Fordian slip there, Sam.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Don't edit that out, Sam. That's a Freudian slip and you know it.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

So what do you think Bill Fisher would would say today about Jack McHenry or Sam Fisher? I mean, I I think that he would be very, very proud. I I I think he would be I agree with that. Uh I I think he'd be very pleased that we both, you know, we never borrowed any money in our life. We never we never uh lived off anybody else. We both made our way. What do you what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 27:57

I I I totally agree with that. You know, it's um I've always felt, and I I might have mentioned this to you before, but you know, I mean, watching him pass, take his last breaths was, you know, pretty pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Anytime you see somebody pass away, it's a hell of an experience. I actually recommend it for anybody out there that you should do it. Well, you know, well, I mean everybody's gonna die.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Yeah, you're right, everyone's gonna die. But I I feel like in my life, he might be on my shoulder a little bit, you know, like I you know, I I've I I have had a very blessed and and and fortunate life. And you know, from the decisions I've made to you know where where again, egghead, where I went to school, and you know, what I've done, and the people I surround myself with and where I was, you know, I've tried to encapsulate, right? If if people I meet didn't sort of tick the boxes of what he stood for in terms of the you know, sort of this code of the west or whatever, then I just they became an acquaintance to me. You know what I'm saying? Like they just you know, they didn't really they didn't penetrate my world. And the people that did tick those boxes, well then I will I will bend over backwards for you, man. Like I will, I will go, I will go the 40th extra mile for you. You know, and and and and so I think he would I I I think he would recognize that because I feel it, you know. I I think that he would understand that I've tried to encapsulate that sort of you know work ethic and that courage and that you know to start and cowboy, you blaze your own trail.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

I mean that's that's what training the cowboy is all about, is is is taking the risk and being independent and being fierce and being brave and all that stuff. And that's those are all all things that you've done.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

So yeah, so I think that he would I I think he would be proud. I do, I do, you know. Um, and that's not to say that he probably wouldn't be disappointed in me in some other you know fashion fashion or uh you know, oh good lord.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

I've done uh every time, yeah. I mean the the old guilt factor. I mean, there's yeah, you know, you wonder if your relatives are like looking over you when you do the really stupid thing. They're rolling over in their grave, oh my god, what's the matter to him? But on the other hand, they were not perfect either. So I'm that's true. I'm sure very true. I'm sure there's there's stories out there, um, things that happen. Um, so I'm gonna share, I think we're gonna kind of wrap this up. I'm gonna share a couple, since I really haven't uh talked in this podcast a lot about granddad, about Bill Fisher. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna share a couple stories. And if you've got a couple specific to come to mind, let me know. But our cousin Mike Fisher once told me that Bill's the only guy I know that shuts a pickup off a half a mile before the house. I mean, he was just the dude was intense, he was rolling. Right. Uh Mike also told me this a time that uh granddad uh chewed tobacco and and um That's what killed him, actually. Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Uh yeah, stomach cancer, yeah. Yeah, that's probably true.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

He probably swallowed that.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

But uh well, you know what? So my memory of him, sorry to interrupt, my memory of him is is you know, when he was, you know, obviously getting diagnosed with cancer at the whole nine, stomach it started as stomach cancer and it spread everywhere. And I asked him, you know, like, well, how'd this start? And he was like, Well, you know, you had to you had to swallow that tobacco. And I was like, why? And he was like, Oh no, and he was like, and he was like, Well, it's dry out there, you know, like I mean it was to what it was drinking, like you he was on a horse, literally on a horse, yeah, dry riding around, swallowing tobacco.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Oh, so instead of drinking water, he drank tobacco.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Instead of drinking water, he drank just drinking spit.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

I be see, I just learned something. I did not know that. Yeah, Mike said Mike said that one time he went to spit out the the window and the damn window was up and the pickup. It just it's uh son of you know he he would do he'd do crazy things like he'd he would drive uh pick up in a horse trailer right down the middle of the radiator cap of that freaking truck is right in the middle of the highway. I mean, just just yeah, that was granddad. Um that was granddad. But uh one of the one of my favorite stories was relayed to me by uh a friend of your dad's. I don't know, do you know JL Spray? Oh, sure I do, yeah. Okay, so JL told me this story. I mean, uh it was kind of fun. You know, my my friendship with JL's been 30 years, and uh we're actually in the Masonic Lodge, and JL like uh wanted me to join the Masonic Lodge, and then JL found out who that uh John McHenry is my uncle, because that's JL's ticket.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

And anyway, so he was And my dad was a grandmaster the whole night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Right. But anyway, uh JL told me the story that John, your dad had told him, and I'd never heard. And he said that uh years ago they're in the calving barn or something, and and and uh or no, uh granddad told John the story. And there was a there's a cow that and sometimes you get some really cows that just need to go, and you know, the signal was always to clip their tag. It was like this it was like the godfather, like you're gonna get whacked. That's right. So anyway, this it was a that kind of a cow and and uh he got he got kicked both both feet and knocked him right in the chest. Now he was probably you know 65-70 years old at the time. That's right. Uh, and knocked him in the chest, and he was knocked cold, or I mean, you know, laying on the ground for like he said, you know, three hours, and your dad's your dad said, Well, Bill, what did you do? You know, what did you do, Bill? You know, any a reasonable question. He goes, Well, he just looked at him like he was retarded and he said, Well, I finished the job.

unknown 33:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

I got up and finished what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Uh exactly. Like, what a foolish question. Um that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

Finish what you start.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Finish what you start. That's right. Uh, the other one, this is another kind of a finish what you start. Um another story I have is uh, and I I don't know why, but I just remember this like it was yesterday. We were moving cattle um from the sunny slope to the Slagle Creek, which is I I think it was seven or eight miles, but it was in the dead of the winter, and it it literally was I I don't know if it was 10 degrees or zero, but the wind chill was probably 10 or 20 below zero. I mean, it was cold. And so I was I was dressed up like the kid from the Christmas story, could barely walk in the overall, as you know, and and you can barely even get up on your horse because it's you're just like so freaking rigid. And I said something to the effect of well, what if I have to go to the bathroom? So grandad grabbed me like uh a marine drill sergeant, turned me around and said, You shit down your leg and you go on. You did it as a kid, you can do it now. And it and um and I never forgot that. I just never forgot that. I don't know how that applies to life, but I think you can apply a lot of things to life like that. You just shit down your leg and go on, you know. So that's right. That's I'm not even sure I'm not even gonna censor that, I don't think, because it's you know, it's true. You shit down your leg and go on.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

That's right. I mean, you know, listen, you don't f up, you just learn, right? I mean, that's it. You know, you go forward from there. You know, I mean, I remember a couple of grandpa's stories, you know, Bill Fisher's stories, where and again, most of them were centered around the time that he was at my house, which was a very difficult time for him. But um in chemo, you you know, you start to lose your hair. So he started to you know go a little bit bald, and you know, hair wasn't coming into his face, and you know, you know, so on and so forth. And I remember him taking off his boots and literally from his ankle to the maybe you know, halfway up his you know, calf was just bear's baby's ass. And I was like, Oh look, grandpa, you're losing hair there too, you know, like because he was losing hair, you know, because he was losing hair, you know, everywhere else, right? Yeah, and he just looked at me and was like, no, that hair's been gone for 40 years, my boots rubbed it off. It was like, you know, I haven't had it, like, no, end of the story. No, no, no, dumbass. That hair's been gone for a long time. This isn't part of the cancer treatment, idiot. You know, like, and of course, how would I know, right? Like, I mean, but he was just very matter-of-fact about it. Very like, put me in my place. No, dumbass. That hair's been gone for a while. Awesome, you know, rubbed off my boots, you know, rubbed off my boots.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Anyway, good stuff. Well, hey, Jack, I really appreciate your time, man. Um we should do it again sometime.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

We should. I'm glad to be the first, you know, relative on the first relative.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

We might have a few down the line, who knows?

SPEAKER_04 36:41

But uh yes, well, hopefully it doesn't scare anyone else off. Yeah, you know, but I'm I'm happy to happy to come back on whatever. I think what what I really love about the juxtaposition of this podcast is that you know your premise is more cowboys than not eggheads. When I think in reality, what comes out of these chats, Sam, is that it's actually a bit of both. You know, and we live in a complex world. We live in like uh, you know, uh you know a society that that needs to be more cowboy. Sometimes needs to be more egghead as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And I think these dialogues help reduce versus dialogue is a good thing, and I think that eggheads and cowboys both need to talk to each other a little bit more because we ultimately uh I do believe that uh you know, they're we uh both need each other.