From Employee to Employer - with Special Guest Stacey Heisey-Terrell

In this conversation, Stacy Heisey-Terrell shares her journey from working in HR at a large law firm to becoming an entrepreneur focused on coaching and empowering individuals after downsizing. She discusses the importance of taking charge of one's career, the challenges of working hard without recognition, and how her HR background shapes her approach to business. The conversation emphasizes the need for a people-centric approach in entrepreneurship and the significance of aligning one's career with personal values and goals.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cowboys, not Eggquit. Home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggquits. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys. And let's keep the conversation alive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share. And now, Cowboys, not eggheads with Sam Fisher.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

My guest today is Stacey Heisey Torrell, a former human resources uh leader who has spent over 20 years inside the corporate world before deciding to take the partnership of her or take the ownership of her own time and future. She now helps others do the same, moving from an employee to an employer. I would maybe call that from a egghead to a cowboy. From stuck to self-directed and from survival to purpose. Now, Stacy's Nebraska roots are deep. Would you say they're deep? I think they're deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

They are deep.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

So as I understand it, your mother grew up out west, uh, in western Nebraska, and she spent you spent countless summers with family in Scottsbluff, Nebraska, which is very western Nebraska. It's almost the Wyoming border. Um it's even farther west from where I grew up in Valentine, Nebraska. Um, but it's it's a it's a beautiful place. Uh it's you're kind of surrounded by the beauty and grit of the Scotts Bluff Monument. Um, and to today you're based in the Philadelphia area, where uh you and your husband are raising four teenage daughters. Um through her work as a coach and speaker, Stacy challenges people to ask the important question are are you giving away your future or do you own your work? Which all this stuff is fascinating, but I I gotta I gotta be honest with you, Stacy. The second that uh you told me that you were uh had Scotts Bluff connections, um, you know, you had me at hello. So um I think it's really interesting because I have some I have some parallels myself. I I uh I uh when my wife and I got married, um we moved, uh I got a job offer right away, um, and we moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Um and so uh when people don't realize that Pennsylvania actually, I know you're in Philly, the big city, but Pennsylvania is actually a lot like Nebraska in the sense it is very rural. People don't realize how rural of a state that is. Um and it's uh very idyllic and and and there's some beautiful, you don't have to go very far even from Philly to you know Lancaster County, it's in Lancaster and Nebraska's Lancaster, but Lancaster County and see some incredible countryside. Um so I'm I'm just curious, like uh tell me about you know tell me about your summers in Nebraska. What did you do and and what what kind of impact did that have on you?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm so glad to be here, Sam. My my mom grew up in Hays Springs, and both she and my dad went to Shadron State. Um, so I've got uh aunts, uncles, cousins, aunties, all kinds of people out on that western side. And um my grandparents lived uh when I was growing up, um, they lived in Gearing, my aunt and uncle in Scotts Bluff there. And um we would come. I I grew up in Central California, and we would come out and um just enjoy kind of being in a different world, right? Like there's so many things to do and see, and got to drive tractors and pick corn and drive the truck without falling in the ditch and all that.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

So you're legit. I'm happy to talk to you. You speak my language.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Learn to do the irrigation um uh tubes. I was never very good at that.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

I'd rather drive the irrigation ditch tubes. I'm impressed. I'm impressed. Yes, yes, yes. Um, so it's Central California is also near and dear to my heart. Where we're in Central California uh were you raised?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, I grew up in Bakersfield. My dad's family is all Bakersfield, uh California. Um, uh LA right and yeah, it's it's rural. Um it's it's rural and kind of in a different way, right? Like lots of almond orchards and potrios. And when I was growing up, lots and lots and lots of cotton um and alpha alpha. So kind of fun to see soybeans and corn when we Yeah, but Bakersville is no LA, it's no San Francisco.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I mean, it's it's a different, it's a oh no, no, no, no. It's it's an agri agricultural based economy there. I mean, it's it's uh it's it's a great it's a great carrot capital of the world, Kern County.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, so those how did those summers in western Nebraska influence your sense of work, independence, uh, or identity? How do how does that influence you today?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, I think, you know, I grew up with lots of entrepreneurs in my in my family, kind of in my DNA. I think that um quite a few of my forefathers were farmers, and that optimism that comes with farming or owning your own business, um, the heart, you know, being able to do what it takes, but I think also kind of having that look of I can control my future, that vision of I'm I'm in charge of my destiny a bit. And that's a really good positive thing. Uh, was in there, and it took a few decades in corporate for me to go, okay, enough of this. Like, how do I shake that off and come back to my roots?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yeah, so you spent uh almost two or two decades in HR, human resources for our cowboys out there. They might not know what that means, but um which which you know what what drew you to that world originally and and and uh and when did you start feeling the pull to do something different after HR?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah, well, I think like a lot of people we kind of fall into our careers sometimes. Um I was working at a large law firm and the head of HR had an opening, and he's like, I think you'd be good at this. And I was like 23, so I'm like, sure, why not? Um, so uh I was good at it, right? I loved people, I liked helping people. Um throughout my career, I was always coaching leaders, coaching employees, um, but from the company's point of view, right? So there were lots of things that I had to do that I was good at, but I didn't really like doing, like laying people off or downsizing, um, moving teams around um that was really upsetting for people. And um just kind of got to a point where I'm like, there's gotta be another way. Can I work with the same people, but on the other side, on the employee side? How do you take charge after you've been downsized or had a really bad experience in in your work life? Um, how do you take charge of your career? How to dust yourself off? Maybe how do you become a cowboy? Yeah, how do you become a cowboy? I become fierce and you gotta find a horse first. Yeah, well, learn how to climb on.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Exactly. Exactly. Well, there are characteristics there. You have to be fierce, uh determined, um, bold, um, independent, um, can do attitude, all those things there. So, I mean, it's I I I talk to people all the time about uh because I was in my career, I was both things. I was an employee first, and then I was an employer, and it's it's two different things. Um, and uh I think it's important to have perspective of both, particularly if you're gonna be an employer, you should you need to have the perspective of an employee. Um, but but it's two, it's it's it's kind of two different mindsets, if you will, um, in my opinion. Um, and so I I think it's great. I I I love that you help people transition um into into the kind of the next step if that's the the direction they they want to go. Um you you talk about giving away your future. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, so I I probably other people can identify with this, but I you know, I think when you're a hard worker, you find places to work hard, right? And I would work nights and weekends and put a lot of my heart into my job. And um sometimes that was appreciated. Sometimes I saw the impact that I was making around me, but a lot of times it kind of I didn't come back to me, right? Like I I put it in and somebody else would benefit. My boss would take credit or the company would do do well and it didn't come back to me. And um, you know, that's exhausting after a while, right? Like I wanna work and make it count for me.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Right. Well, I've I mean I've I've you know I I've heard it say, like, why am I working for my boss's vacation? You know, I should be working for my vacation.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Right. He's earning bigger and bigger bonuses. Yeah, what what am like what am I doing? I'm missing games, I'm missing events with my family. Like yeah. And and then when it comes down to it, you think like, okay, I'd trade some of that for stability, but then often we don't we don't get stability in return. We're still kind of treated when there's a downturn, we're out, right? Um, so it's it's that's a bitter pill to to swallow after you've put so much of yourself into your work.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Absolutely. How did how did your uh HR background, do you think, uh shape your approach to entrepreneurship that may be different than than most?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, well, I started my business. I've got colleagues who who also coach and they have a marketing background or a sales background. You know, they're doing these lovely things with numbers and charts. And I don't like any of that stuff. I like the people stuff. So I think there's some freedom too in how I run my business is really different than maybe somebody else with a different background. Um, you know, where I I do have to be disciplined to put on my calendar, like check the bank account, right? And do the reports and those sorts of things. But I love working with people and I get to spend most of my day doing just that, uh, helping people, talking, meeting all kinds of new people, being inspired by their stories or seeing how they are transforming. And um that's what I, you know, as I went through this process for myself, kind of lined up what are my goals? What do what is most important to me? And how do I want to spend most of my day? And how do I find a career that supports that, that aligns with that? And um this came together perfectly for me.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Um, you know, you say you obviously a people person and um salespeople are sales are are people persons, but I'm wondering if um it sounds like to me though, what you like enjoy from the aspect is you like uh or maybe I'm assuming something, but instead of selling a product, uh you're probably better at you probably get enjoyment or satisfaction out of maybe peep how helping people network or helping make connections. Does it does it is it rewarding? Is it was rewarding to me to be able to make connections for people or to set them up with people that I knew that I knew might be a good fit, um, that they would work together as well as colleagues. Is there is there an element of that in in your work?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And you know, like when you're talking to somebody and you see that light bulb come in of like, oh, I know who I could talk to, or oh, what if I tried this? Or I had just had this great conversation. I want to tell you about it. You know, what can we find? Uh what can we take from that? What does that tell you about your direction? Um, I love the, I live for those moments, right? Where people are like, oh, I never thought of that that way. Or I didn't know that this would be possible for me. Um, and that's you know, that that's clear. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yeah, absolutely. And it's particularly as time goes on and you see what maybe something that you help set up blossom into something that's even bigger than even you thought possible, you know? It's it's it's really rewarding, at least my experience, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

What are the most common fears or limiting beliefs you see in people who want to change careers?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, I it it's scary, right? I think we uh we do what we know and and do what we've seen other people be successful at. Um, right. So even though we might feel we're on the grind or we're working harder and harder, but we're just on a hamster wheel, we're not going anywhere, uh, it's really hard to imagine a different future, different outcome for ourselves. So I think, you know, fear fear of change is is huge for a lot of my a lot of my clients. And um sometimes I tell a story about, you know, when you were a little kid, you knew that there was a monster under your bed, right? Like you knew it to be fact. And when you got brave enough to to look under there with a flashlight, that was like, oh, whoops, there's no monster, right? The dust bunnies under the bed. Um, so I think a lot of times we get convinced that something is one way until we take some moment, you know, take some time to to do some fact finding, to get out the flashlight and really assess what the environment is. And often those facts combat that fear. And we're like, oh, wait a minute, other people are doing this. I just didn't know them. There, there is a path forward. I couldn't see it before, I didn't have that experience. Um, so I like to help find the batteries for the flashlight so we can go look around, do some discovery, and fight some of those fears. Yeah, yes, look under the bed.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Look under the bed. Um, uh do you find that um uh I think you're probably my age. I mean, I'm in my mid to late 50s. I retired early at 53, but um do you find that folks that are maybe our age have a bigger time dealing with that fear than than somebody who's 20. I mean, I know people that are in their, you know, people that I helped mentor or whatever, and they're now in their, you know, say mid to late 30s, they've had multiple jobs, and they don't seem like when I was coming up, I you you kind of didn't want to do that. You kind of wanted to show that hey, I can I'm reliable, I can hang around for a couple years, but that's it. Am I wrong? Is the marketplace now not that way anymore? Or what's you just don't see people are the same place for 30 years, and maybe you do because they're trying to get out now. But um what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Because now they're trying to escape.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

No, I think you're right on. Like, I think these younger generations don't it they they have more imagination for themselves. Maybe it's a generation, maybe it's the age. Um, but it's well, and it's harder for for us, right? Um, and I think when you think about like, well, I've had years and years or decades and decades of building expertise, building a name for myself, it's really kind of scary to think about. Well, could I let that go? What if I'm not a director anymore or VP or the manager? What if I let go of that title? Who am I? You know, can I take those skills and plug them in to a different, a different system, a different way to do things? And um for a lot of my clients, I see that uh the way that they've defined success, they haven't done that for themselves. They've taken on, well, my society tells me that this is success, or my parents told me, or my my spouse, my boss, whatever. And when we take a moment to think about, well, actually, what are your goals and what is success for you? Um sometimes is radically different than the track we've been on, right? Where maybe I don't need the house and the car and the job title. Maybe what I really, really can live for is making an impact or leaving a legacy, or you know, spending my day doing mostly what I enjoy, the the tasks that I enjoy instead of uh what I've been doing. Um it's really freeing to imagine a different future for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Absolutely. Absolutely. How so how do you help people identify what they really want, not not just what they think they should do next? I mean, how do you do that? How do you make those connections?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

How do you how do you help them with that process?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, but I think for a lot of folks, we don't take a lot of time for ourselves to strategize or make our own long-term plans. A lot of that energy goes towards helping our families or our teams or our organizations. And so really what we do is slow down a minute and think about what are those big goals on the horizon? What are the income, lifestyle, wealth, equity goals that you're working towards? And sometimes just that process of let's write down what the goals are. The light bulb, you see the light bulb start coming on, right? Like, oh my gosh, I am not working, I'm not in alignment with those goals. My career is is very misaligned when I really say what where I'm headed or how I see my future. Where I work with my my spouse, my family, like where are we going? Um, does my job support that? Does my career support that? And um, through that process, often we see like, ooh, wow, we're way out of whack. How do we how do we bring it into alignment?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Sometimes that's just another corporate job, right? Or and sometimes it's business ownership or going out on your own.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yeah. It's interesting because I mean, um, you know, we're grown adults, but like if you actually ask a grown adult to write down their goals, it's hard. It's hard. Um, I I go to an example of myself. We don't we're we don't practice that. Yeah. No, we don't. And it's I mean, it's a simple, I mean, it's a simple ask, right? But it's it's like what? Um I I can relate to that just from uh I had a uh I have a uh a coach of my uh I'm I'm in the CrossFit, but um I had a coach that uh was coaching me on some things and she you know she's 32 or 33 years old and and she she asked me to write down my principles. And you're like, well, you know, these millennials, what are they talking about? But I tell you what, I challenge you to do it. I challenge everybody, I mean, because at the end of the day, what is it that you are all about? What are what what it you know what do you want to be remembered by or how do you want to be perceived, or what are your principles, you know? And it's like that was quite a that was quite an exercise. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah, yeah. Well, and research shows if you just if you write those things down, three times more likely to achieve them than if you don't write them down, if you just think them in your head, um, or even have a conversation, right? You just have to commit it to paper.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

It's so simple, it's ridiculous, right? But it's not simple.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah, yes, it's that simple, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Crazy, crazy. Can you share a success story of someone that you helped that made that shift and how their life changed?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, yes. So um I was working with uh someone that I had worked with in insurance. Um, she was a claims vice president, uh professional person that worked in the insurance industry her entire career. And um, we started working together. And the it was the more we peeled back the layers, the onion, the more she was like, this just is not a fit, right? I'm just so not happy. And um we started exploring businesses. Um, she thought she wanted to work for herself. So we started exploring businesses. What kind of business model made sense? What kind of people did she want to spend time with? What kind of tasks did she want to do day-to-day? And um, she ended up opening a business, um, which the like there are so many ways to make money in this world, right? And to support yourself. She opened a business that patches holes in walls. So her business follows plumbers and electricians, follows behind them and fixes all the things that they punch holes into. And she loves it. So here's this, you know, Philadelphia insurance executive, and now she's got blue-collar guys working for her. She's got a drives a car with that's all wrapped up in the with her logo and is loving having control over her schedule, feeling like she's making a difference in her community. She's uh using all those professional networking skills that she used in the corporate world to work with folks and um find new customers. And it just was like a rock was lifted off her. Um is so interesting. But something she would have never really come to on her own. We worked together. I asked her lots of questions and we went down roads that she's like, I would have been too scared to do that by myself, or I don't know that I would have put two and two together without a stranger kind of asking some pointed questions and then also calling her back to here's your goal. You know, is is this career gonna help you meet your goal? Which was to have more schedule ownership and flexibility. Um so yeah, that's interesting. Do you have multiple things like that happen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Absolutely. Um, do you do you consider yourself to be a consultant or would you call yourself a coach?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Um I'm a coach, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So I like that word better than consultant because to me, consultant is very egghead-ish. Um I don't know. I just I've never liked I've never that's what I did for a living. I mean, I was a I was a consultant, but yeah, I just I I just like to I like the word coach better because it's it's more of like we're in it together versus me just telling what to do and then leaving. I mean, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yes, yes. Well, and each of us like I'm not I couldn't how do I give Sam advice? You're really the expert on Sam, right? And what your goals are and what those mean to you. So as a coach, I can ask you questions and help pull that out of you, but you're really you're the expert, right? And you know what will work for you and your family in this season of life, you know how things might grow or change and and what's really engaging. So I think a coach can help tease those out, um, pull those things out of us, but um we really can take ownership and be the masters of our own careers, right? Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Um, okay, so you've got four teenage daughters. What have you learned from them about uh modeling courage and self-belief for them?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Well, right, teenagers teach you resilience, right? And strengthen my ego because I'm I'm constantly told what I'm doing wrong. Um so yeah, I think uh I think that was my my children were a big part of my journey, right? I felt like I was missing a lot and I wanted to be around when they came home from school and were ready to talk and debrief their day. And I just never had that chance. And so that was really important to me to um to have that be part of part of my career. Um, but also really a strong desire to model to them that you can make your own way, right? You've you gather skills and expertise and make those great connections, but you you have the capacity of putting that together and making that work for you. Um, and it's it's funny that my kids, you know, they they get involved. I sometimes they know when I'm using coaching language on them and they uh they're like, oh, is this part of you? You know, are you treating me like a client? Right. Um but I think they um they get invested in some of the people that I'm working with. Their stories are inspiring and um and I they help me, I give them jobs to do. Um, so it's uh it's a much more integrated life that I have now than I used to when I went to an office every day and um you know they they didn't really know what I was doing.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah. Well so what what does success look like for you? How do you define success today as maybe you uh versus how maybe you did 10, 15, 20 years ago? Is it different?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, yeah. I think um, you know, early Stacy, corporate Stacy did a lot of backbending and changing myself to fit my corporations, to fit my teams, to fit my job titles. And there was a lot of things about me that I I held back, right? Because they didn't fit with that corporate image or or this job mentality. Um, and now I'm able to, you know, those are my selling points, right? Is uh is me, is who I authentically can be. Um so, you know, I have I have income goals, I have lifestyle goals, you know, where I want to control my schedule and what I what I want um is in terms of flexibility, legacy I want to leave, impact I want to make on my community. I have all those goals for myself, but I'm much more I'm much more me than I used to be, um, which is kind of kind of interesting how that comes out and shows up and and is very relatable to many people. Um is absolutely particularly as we get older.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

I mean, we all kind of go through this journey together, you know, and that that makes sense. I mean, it just it at some point that flips. Yep. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

So what's what's next on the horizon for you? Do you have any big projects or or themes you're working on, or what's what what's the next four to five years look like for Stacy?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Ooh, four to five years. Yes, well, um, so I've been doing lots of experimenting. Podcasting is is new for me, guesting on podcasts, um, finding new ways to relate to people and and um connect with potential clients um who would benefit from from working with somebody like me um who are kind of itching for a change. Um so for me, I think uh the next few years will be really honing honing my coaching skills, but also how I find people um and and get the message out about my service um to people that uh I might not normally bump into. Um and so that's that little experimentation is is been really fun for me.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

I bet. Well, that's probably why we're talking today. Um so if someone feels you're helping. If uh happy to help. Um if someone helps or if someone feels trapped in their job, Stacy, what's one small but powerful first step they can take um to reclaiming uh ownership of their future?

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Yeah, I think you know, just what we were talking about, taking a few minutes for yourself to maybe jot down what are a couple goals for yourself and and start to be really honest about am I living somebody else's dream or am I living my own dream? Um, if I could do anything and I wasn't going to fail, I knew I wasn't gonna fail, what would I do? And if that is radically different than your day job, um take note, you know, that you don't you don't have to live in that, right? There are there are lots of possibilities out there, lots of uh ways to make small changes and big changes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Absolutely. Well, I really appreciate our time together. Now, for my listeners, if they they are listening to this and thinking that well, they're kind of talking about me and they'd be interested in talking to you. How would they get hold of you? What's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah, I would love to speak with them. The best way to do that is to uh go to my website, which is very easy. My life, my bizb-i-z, and that takes people right into uh contact card, um, so I could reach out to them or they can get to my calendar. My coaching is complementary, so it's really, you know, sometimes it doesn't hurt to just have a conversation and see see if what I offer is is a fit. Um yeah, and I would encourage people my life, my biz, and surf around a little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Great. Well, I really appreciate having you on. Is there anything that I haven't asked or I needed to ask, or something else you'd like to cover?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

No, I I love this conversation. Um, yeah, and just really appreciate your time and even the the shot of the prairie behind you is uh my window. It's got fluff up on my wall a little further over. I should I should have pulled it in.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

So so the million dollar question is were you did you ever get into Nebraska football? Were you forced into Nebraska football? Did did your family big Husker fans?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

So that's a trick question. That's like asking me if as I live in Philadelphia, if I am an Eagles fan, right? I'm I'm I'm required by law to say yes, absolutely. Yeah, yes, I had lots of Husker gear, whether I wanted it or not. We we were Husker fans for sure.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

It it is real, it is real. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

And um, yeah, it it's caused quite a quite a problem.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

That's all right. That's a good school. That's a good school.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

That's all right. Still on the prairie, but all the colors are different.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for your time. I know your time is valuable, and um, you know, been a great conversation. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Thanks so much.