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Surviving Trauma: Stories of Hope
Surviving Trauma: Stories of Hope
Transforming Inner Narratives for Lasting Change with Abby Havermann
What happens when the quest for external validation drives your life choices? In this episode, we welcome Abby Haverman, a remarkable psychotherapist and coach, whose powerful story of transformation will leave you inspired. Abby takes us back to her childhood, sharing how these early experiences shaped her self-perception, leading her through a profound "dark night of the soul" and ultimately to a journey of self-discovery and empowerment.
Imagine a life-altering moment of crisis that triggers a fundamental shift in your understanding of self-worth. For Abby, a night spent in jail became that pivotal moment, leading her to recognize the destructive patterns driven by her need for external validation. She shares the epiphany that true transformation begins within, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and personal accountability. Abby's insights into how altering our inner narratives can lead to profound change will resonate deeply with anyone struggling to find their true self.
Relationships often mirror our inner state, and Abby offers a fresh perspective on dating and personal growth. She challenges traditional boundary-setting, advocating instead for self-awareness and emotional regulation. Abby's educational courses, including "From Hot Mess to Harmony" and "Seven Weeks to Serenity," provide practical tools for aligning with one's purpose and practicing self-care. Join us as we explore how shifting belief systems can transform not only our relationships but our entire lives, encouraging us to see challenges as opportunities for growth. This episode promises to inspire and empower, reminding us all of the incredible potential for positive change.
If you wish to connect with Abby, check out his website and social media links below.
Website: https://www.abbyhavermann.com/
Ted Talk: https://www.abbyhavermann.com/tedx-talk
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/abby.havermann
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abbyisworthy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-havermann-93a915165/
Connect with me by checking out mycenteredlife on social media, and leave me a comment to let me know what you think of the episode. Also please, head to Amazon, Takealot or Audible at the link and get your copy of my E-book, paperback book or audiobook edition, of Ray of Light, and please leave me a rating and review. It would mean the world to me.
Facebook: My Centered Life Facebook
Instagram: My Centered Life Instagram
YouTube: Marlene McConnell MCL YouTube Channel
Patreon: MCL Infinite Progress Society
Please support the show on Paypal: PayPal.Me/marlenegmcconnell
Hi there, I'm your host, marlene McConnell, and welcome to the Surviving Trauma Stories of Hope podcast. Today, I am delighted to welcome Abby Hoverman to the podcast, and she joins me from her home in the United States. A psychotherapist turned coach, abby is a dynamic speaker, skilled trainer and an illuminator of the unconscious self-betrayals that drive our everyday challenges, of the unconscious self-betrayals that drive our everyday challenges. Combining psychotherapy, neuroscience and ancient wisdom, she teaches you how to rewire habitual patterns of thought, emotion and behavior to thrive instead of survive. On the outside, abby was leading what would easily be described as an enviable life a respected couples therapist, a junked faculty at the graduate level, married with an adorable child and a white picket fence to boot. But many of her life choices had unconsciously been made through the lens of unworthiness, choices that weren't aligned for her. The universe often does for us what we're unable to do for ourselves, and Abby's wake-up call was mortifying. While enduring this experience, abby identified the myriad of ways she'd betrayed herself and shifted her focus from what she was doing in the world to who she was being. Through this process, she took back her power and, through the ensuing decade, has delved deeper into the human potential, movement, trained with world-renowned thought leaders, and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:I loved having Abby join me on the podcast and I know you will enjoy this episode. Thank you to all my listeners for joining me on this journey. Comment on the posts on Instagram, facebook, linkedin and YouTube and let me know what you think of this episode. Also, head to Amazoncom, audible or Takealotcom and get your copy of my book Ray of Light, and please leave me a rating and review. It would mean the world to me, as always stay tuned and keep listening.
Speaker 1:Hi Abby, Welcome to the Surviving Trauma Stories of Hope podcast. It's so lovely to have you here with me today.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. It's lovely to be here.
Speaker 1:I am looking forward to our conversation today and I just want to say that I absolutely admire just your courage and your strength and your outlook and your positive message that you have, and I can't wait for the listeners today to hear and to share in what I already know. So I'm looking forward to our conversation, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you as much as that's hard earned.
Speaker 1:We can start by sharing just a little bit more about your life. Before you know you had this wake up call and you know you had some signs that, as I know, in your backstory that you ignored that hinted, that you needed some change. And perhaps you can sort of start and kick us off by filling us in as to how that backstory came to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you mean sort of like pre my dark night of the soul. Yeah, you know, I mean I. I think that I whether the truth of the matter is not necessarily relevant when you're talking about your emotional experience and how your emotional experience then informs the way you behave and think in the world. So, for whatever reason, as a kid, I really felt unlovable. I really the youngest kid, and my dad, who was really a super cool guy he passed in 2020, but he was an alcoholic when I was growing up and my parents split and whatever I just developed this narrative, this really internal core belief that I wasn't lovable. I was kind of an angry kid, I was the scapegoat, I was all those things and I think that combined, really, I mean that was like in the 70s and 80s and it was during that time and I know this sounds crazy, but this commercial came for women's liberation.
Speaker 2:You know, my mother went to work. She actually had. She worked her way up. She had no college education. She ended up becoming the president of a direct mail company. She had a really really great job over time and so she was a working mom and my dad wasn't really so much on the scene, or at least not very regularly, and I would hang out at home with my best friend and we would play house and all these kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And on TV was this commercial. I can bring home the bacon, fry it in a pan and never let you forget you're a man. Do you remember that commercial? Did you see it in your part of the world? I don't recall. It was the Women's Liberation commercial and a lot of people from my generation over here will remember it because it's like burned into our brains. It ran for like 10 years and of course the idea was to empower women. You can do anything and they showed a woman in an evening gown and they showed her in an apron, cooking, and then they showed her in a corporate outfit and it was great.
Speaker 2:But I think what we missed is that of course we can do all of those things, but we had really been conditioned over thousands and thousands of years to not have much self-worth, to have our worth be determined by how well we kept at home, how happy you were with me, all those things, and so we were unconsciously and automatically operating in this way of being.
Speaker 2:That is, my worth is attached to what other people think of me and what the world thinks of me, and so then we plunked all these women into the workforce, and now this is just another place for us to act out our conditioning. And now this is just another place for us to act out our conditioning. And so it was a very confusing message, because, while the message was like go out and do all the things, be completely needless, don't be dependent on anyone, because you can do everything, on the one hand, and then, on the other hand, I had this really unconscious belief that I was only worthy if I had a man and I was only worthy if I got married and my life would start when I got married, and so that resulted in me kind of pretending to be needless. I don't need anything. I'm one of the cool girls I'll do, you know, and only looking for guys to find out if they wanted me and never really thinking about if I wanted them.
Speaker 2:Um and so that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of shame attached. Really, there was a lot of shame attached with the neediness I felt as a young child, because you weren't supposed to be needy, that, like the women that we were shown were, they had it all together, they didn't need anybody. And yet I think we felt very needy. We felt very like I'm only lovable if someone loves me, and so I think that really formed Only we're deserving of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it really formed a lot of my thinking and subsequent behavior and my really my unconscious belief that my life really would start only when I got married, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And I mean that is so true for many people. You know that unconscious belief that my life really would start only when I got married. And I mean that is so true for many people. You know that they aspire and dream to you know that wedding day and what that's going to look like. And the reality is that we need to be strong and have our own worth in order for us to actually be able to be with someone else and then be equal partners within a union. Them, because when you find out and you understand what's happening, it's almost too late, because you know you're already in that relationship, you're already married, and now you realize, oh, that perhaps was not the best decision that I made. You know.
Speaker 2:I feel that you know some people we never really realize it because even if you're in a bad marriage, you know it's like, oh well, the marriage is the problem or he's the problem, or whatever. But we never really uncovered that core unworthiness program that drove us to make the choices that we're making and that cause us to make the choices that we're making today because we are so accomplished. And so you say like if you had told me when I was a young psychotherapist that you know I felt unworthy and that's what was going on, I would be like you're crazy. I've got this great practice. I know I'm good at what I do, you know I look good, I look put together, I've got family and friends and I like myself just fine.
Speaker 2:But the truth was like I did not love myself. You know, like I only liked myself as well as I did that day, for whatever I had accomplished that day. If things were going bad, I felt bad about myself. If things were going good, I felt good about myself. And that is not. You know, unconditional love is no love at all.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And it's funny because you know Love is no love at all. Exactly. And it's funny because you know people who look at you from the outside will now probably say Abby, what are you talking about? You were always so confident, you were always so put together.
Speaker 1:I can't believe that you suffered from low self-esteem and low self-worth. It's just not possible. But I think we also are so conditioned to just suppress those emotions. But I think we also are so conditioned to just suppress those emotions. And you know, as long as everything on the outside looks really good and we can keep a lid on that emotions that are actually boiling inside us, then everything is fine. Place in our life where either life says to you listen, it's time to pay attention now. Or we have that realization by ourselves where we say I surrender because I no longer want to feel like this. There is something that is terribly wrong here. It's not just me and that happened for you and pretty much on a very ordinary day, with an ordinary event, with shoe tying. Do you want to sort of take us through that experience and the you know what led up to you actually really entering this undoubted lifealtering moment in your life that changed the trajectory of your experience and put you on the path you are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had married when I was 30. I was working as a psychiatric social worker on an inpatient unit and starting my private practice, and I married a addictions counselor who worked at the same hospital. He was really a very brilliant counselor. He had been sober about 15 years, he was older than me and during our marriage he sustained a back injury and he relapsed on pain meds and it led to a very predictable I mean because you know, when you're involved with addicts, when you grow up in alcoholic homes, when you have, you know, addiction relationships.
Speaker 2:They're so predictable, you know, and I did all the predictable behaviors. I was controlling and I was rageful and then I was ashamed at how I got rageful and I didn't know should I be more empathic to his pain or should I? Did I have a right to be so upset with how things are going? And I just did that dance back and forth and finally, finally you know, after however long, it was clear to me that nothing was going to change and as as much as I did not want to get divorced, because I felt that a couples therapist shouldn't be getting divorced, even though that's ridiculous too. But those are the you know things that I thought at the time.
Speaker 1:Those are the what ifs and the fears. Huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:And they are so real and you know you can't help but think what will people think?
Speaker 2:Right, which is so stupid, because we're all just people. You know like we have these grandiose ideas, that we're so above, you know, making mistakes or whatever. It's just so silly, but that's part of the front you know that we have. And so I had decided to leave my husband. At that time he was extremely out of it and the morning before I left him you know nothing like this had ever happened before but he was leaning over the couch at the end of our bed trying to tie his shoe and he wasn't wearing any underwear, I mean any pants. He was in his underwear and I was like he is so out of it and I knelt down and I said you know you're, you're not making any sense. And he took my face and he shoved me back to the ground, which he'd really never done before, and I instinctively sat up and I slapped him and five minutes later there were three cops at my door. Because he had called the police and even though he couldn't give the 911 operator our correct address, like I had, even though he couldn't give the 911 operator our correct address, like he literally was trying to tell her the wrong address, the cops came and there was a mandatory arrest law, which I was not aware of in that state. And so I was saying I was trying to get rid of him because I didn't want the neighbors to see what was happening. I wanted to get my son away from the whole thing. I didn't want him to go to jail.
Speaker 2:He was so out of it and he meanwhile told the cops that he never shoved me, that I slapped him, he had a mark, it hurt, and so they arrested me. And because there were no no-transcript, right At him and at the cop, right. But this is what happened, right. So I was vacillating between just being so humiliated and so enraged and my friends came to visit me. I had five friends come and visit me. Two of them were friends from graduate school, and I said to one of them you know, through the glass, the phone, you know over the glass and everything I said, what am I going to do? You know? Because I really was like like broken, it wasn't like literally, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Like I had a lawyer coming the next day, like you know things, you know. It was like, oh my God. And she said this is what my life has come to. Yeah, exactly, there's a caseload of clients that I'm supposed to see tomorrow and their treatment is predicated on the fact that I have my shit together and I'm in jail, you know. And? And she said to me something I'll really never forget. She said Abby, this does not define you, Not as a woman, not as a mother and not as a therapist. Yep, she said you're going to go lay down and you're going to pray for your next right step.
Speaker 2:And, um, it really clicked to me, because the whole reason I ever became a therapist was to create a space for people where they could show up as they were and just watch the shame melt off, as we're just allowed to be who we are. And I laid down and I started feeling all the rage, Like I can't believe he did this and I can't believe this cop was so stupid. It was a female cop. All these things went through my mind. But as her words came back to me and I started to do that, I just closed my eyes and just next right step, next right step.
Speaker 2:And no sooner did I have this epiphany? That was like, yeah, he may have betrayed me, but what really upset me is that I had betrayed me, Because that's when everything became so clear the desperation with which I wanted to get married when I was young, the always wanting to have a boyfriend, the because I felt that that meant that I was worthy in some way. And then how I behaved through my marriage and how I behaved on that day more concerned with what the neighbors thought than I was with protecting myself which, by the way, when I protect me, I protect my son when I didn't protect me, my son was in danger that night because he stayed with him and he was under the influence. So that's when I really began to realize that wait, a minute, liberation is an inside job and I need to look at this self-betrayal. And then, as I talk in my TED Talk, things happened moving forward when I realized really nothing's changed for women, even young women, today, in terms of this inner world and inner perception.
Speaker 1:And that's when I really kind of felt a mission and felt called the thing about low self-worth and the fact that we, you know, we hide that low self-worth behind the mask. It just allows for us to attract the same, because quite often we'll find that the person that we attract also suffers from low self-worth and also lives behind a mask and also struggles with, has their own struggles, which are probably equally, if not worse off than our own. I know that you said that you already decided beforehand, before everything happened, that day right, that dark night of the soul, that you had already decided this was the end of the marriage. You wanted something different for yourself and you were going to do that.
Speaker 1:But after everything had happened, how did you sort of you know, and the reason I want to ask how you did this, you did this transformation, because that was merely the catalyst is that so many people who find themselves in this situation when they think about it, abby and all of the outcomes seems to be negative and they ask themselves but oh, what if I can't take care of my son? What if my practice isn't going to do so well, what if I don't have this extra income? What if I don't have all of these things? And all of the outcomes are negative or not favorable. They end up just simply not making any decisions, you know, and they just repeat that wash and repeat it over and over. So what was it in that decision-making moments that actually really allowed you to take the action?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, you know, and I really think it's such a great question because it's so true. And you know, the issue is that people have no idea the magic and the power that's inside of them. They have no idea how they can change their life and how quickly that can happen by changing who they're being. And I didn't know that then either. To be honest, at that time that was 20 years ago I didn't know all of those things. I was just a practicing psychotherapist. I didn't understand neuroscience or the quantum or any of that stuff. Then I have always had just a relentless focus on self evolution and on being real and evolving myself, and I just wasn't going to live my life like that. I just wasn't going to do it. I wasn't going to let my son grow up with a mom who was resentful and bitchy and a dad that was depressed and dilapidated. I wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2:And so when that happened, though, what really changed because what could have just been well, I'm going to leave this marriage, and now I'm going to go repeat the same thing over again and wind up in the same marriage was, at that night, in jail, I realized wait a minute. I think it's Stephen Covey, who coined the phrase if I'm not the problem, there is no solution. And when that happened, I realized wait a minute, it was me. I did this to myself. Nobody did this to me, and in fact, I could go back to being date, raped and say I caused that. There were behaviors that I did that. Had I not done, that wouldn't have happened. And the only reason I did those behaviors was because I thought that the only thing that made me lovable was my sexuality, and that's the only reason that I was flirty. That was the only reason that I wanted this guy so bad that didn't want me was flirty. That was the only reason that I wanted this guy so bad that didn't want me.
Speaker 2:And so, really, it was that awakening that, like, wait a minute, I am the one that's going to have to change here and, regardless of anything, I don't want to feel this way anymore. I don't want to feel worthless anymore, and so many people don't realize that that's really what's driving them is this unconscious belief around their unworthiness. And so you know one of the ways that we change sometimes we can create change, like you said earlier. You know, it's always in pain and suffering, right, usually, but sometimes we can. It's almost always that way. Right, you don't have to, but that's the way we tend to do it. We, you know we can have an event that is so massive that it's like, oh my God, I'm not. And that's what that event was for me, and it was sort of like my unworthiness program went away as it related to love.
Speaker 2:In that moment it was like no one deserves this and if nobody deserves this, I don't deserve this, and if I don't deserve this, I must be worthy. And I literally met my husband my husband now, 30 days later, because I, you know, I just I just had a different belief. I just changed my belief system and I stopped acting the ways that someone who was unworthy would act, you know, wondering who, who are you going to like me, and what's he and what's he doing? Instead of like gee, do I feel something inside of myself for you, you know now unworth'm working in other areas.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, right, yeah. And it's also about not dating like a teenager, right, but but really staying. Staying in your own integrity. Staying in your integrity and saying exactly what you feel and when you have an experience, right up front, saying, okay, I am not comfortable with this, I don't like this, or that's not going to get better, but but I know what I like and how, how I feel about this. I think very often when we do that and we in that, in that change, right, you've got had the catalyst for that transformation in you know it's it's. It's hard to make that change because we think that someone won't like us if we say upfront the things that are bothersome. But it's actually the healthiest thing that you can do because you have the opportunity to then decide right upfront this is something that can work going forward or this is something that you know I'm not willing to to change going forward.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think too, you know the idea when you can begin to look at your relationships as an opportunity for your own self-actualization, for your own self-growth. So when you're in, you know, regardless of whether it's a healthy relationship or not, but even a healthy relationship, right, like I think we get so confused in our society about and I have a whole talk about how to stop setting boundaries, cause I really feel like setting boundaries is a problem, you know, like the way that we understand boundaries, like I look at it the total opposite way. But one of the problems that we have is sort of like well, I don't like that behavior, so you have to stop doing that, or I either. Then I mean, well, then I'm just screwed, I've got to, I've got to just accept that behavior, or I've, I'm out of here, like those are our two things. So one is sort of victimized by it and the other is we're out.
Speaker 2:And it's so ridiculous because we think we have this fantasy that because I tell you that I don't like it when you leave the cabinets open, that you then have a responsibility to me to not do that, and that's actually really not true. You know, you get to do life the way that you do life and I can express what I want and what I need to you, and you may or may not do it. You may even want to do it, but because you're in your own automatic program, you forget to do it.
Speaker 1:You know, it's not a personal assault.
Speaker 2:It's just that, that's how you are. Your own automatic program. You forget to do it. You know it's not a personal assault, it's just that. That's how you are.
Speaker 1:You know like and you know or for some people it's just you know that divide. I'm out of here.
Speaker 2:I'm out of here, right? They think that's their only choice. I have to suck it up and be okay, or I have to be out of there. And it's really kind of crazy that we look at things that way, but that's how we look at things and instead of being able to say wait a minute, wow, I have a real reaction when the cabinets are open. By the way, I'm the one that leaves the cabinets open, not my husband, but I have a real reaction when this comes up for me, and this reaction is my responsibility. Reaction is my responsibility.
Speaker 2:And isn't this fascinating? I get to work on myself with him, leaving the cabinets open. It allows me this opportunity for me to not have a knee-jerk reaction, to be loving and kind and work on that. Whatever that gift or opportunity is I'm trying to work on, because he's giving me this great opportunity to do it Right, and then I do a whole bunch of things that irritate him, and it gives him an opportunity to overcome himself, you know. And so when you can look at it that way and become less reactive, then you can really get the answer to that question Like, okay, like, cause there's, there's plenty of relationships where people will be like I see you, I see that you can't do this, I see that you can't have this kind of relationship. But it's from an empathic place. You see it like, wow, you're too wounded, they just can't do it and they might be like that's just not going to work for me.
Speaker 2:That's very different than I'm out of here. You know, you might see like, all right, he's never going to close the frigging cabinets, it's just not going to happen. So I guess I just you know what there's so many other great things I'm not going anywhere, I'm not going to make it with the cabinets. Yeah, I can live with it, right. But until you are calmed down yourself and you have worked on emotional regulation yourself, you can't have that objectivity. So you're either a victim or you're out.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and I always believe that life it doesn't matter whether it's a colleague or romantic relationship, life when it brings you someone there is always an opportunity to grow in that space and there is always an opportunity for someone to learn from the other. And sometimes, you know, it's also okay. Some people don't take the opportunity. Some people say, no, I like the way I am, I want to stay the way I am and this doesn't work for me, and that's it, and this is what I like, and I guess in some ways that's okay too. And I suppose for some people who do that, they will remain stuck in that space until at a later stage life again comes knocking and says here's another opportunity for you to change, and it might not be as kind as the first time, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's why, like I am not for everybody, like there's lots of people that they're just not ready to do this, this level of work, and there's no judgment there. Like if you had caught me 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to do it either, and every soul here that comes down here is not here for the same reason. So, um, you know, we have an opportunity to overcome our things in this lifetime. Sometimes we don't, sometimes we have to go through another lifetime to get it done.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I know you're absolutely right. Then there's a lot of people who will say that and unfortunately it is often grounded in this belief that there's a right and there's a wrong, and sort of a really internally rigid, just self-abuse. Really, I mean, those people tend to be extremely hard on themselves. So you know, they need our compassion and they chase perfectionism.
Speaker 1:There's this ideal, there's this perfect relationship where everything is absolutely perfect and everything is very strictly controlled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know that when we are in judgment of someone else and we all always are like right, like a great tool is like, if I'm judging someone else, all that means or I'm being judged harshly by someone else, it means that that person judges themselves very harshly.
Speaker 2:Right, so if I'm judging a behavior on someone else. It's a behavior that I have disowned in myself because I am in such harsh judgment of it. So I used to really like women that were like needy. I was like, oh you know, I couldn't stand that, right. Well, because I was so unconsciously needy and I hated that part of myself. I was ashamed of that part of myself, right.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of women you know today of that part of myself, right, Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of women you know today who will say things like I don't need anybody, I can do everything myself. And then in the next breath they say I want a man who will just take care of me, who will, and I'm like well, how are you going to get that when you don't need anything?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like they just don't realize the contradiction. Yes, that they're completely in conflict. Yeah, wow, abby, there's just so many things that we've touched on here that resonates with me and that I've seen in so many relationships and friends and family, and I mean this is absolute gold for the listeners. Thank you so much. So I wanted to move on and just sort of discuss. You work within the field of psychology and you also work with neuroscience, so how did the two sort of help you in this journey of self-discovery and transformation and how did that sort of evolve into the practice that you have now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started as a psychotherapist. I let my practice, my license, go in 2000 and I don't know age or something like that, because when I left my marriage a couple of years later, I met my husband right away. But then, about a year after that, or not even, I went in and started working with him and his financial service business. Because at that point I was just like I don't care what I do, I want to be able to be with my family and be free and all these things. And so I worked in financial services for quite a while and at one point I said you know, I want to talk to people, but not about money, like this is not what I want to be doing. And I really it had been.
Speaker 2:It took a few years for me to realize that there was something missing for me. I knew there was something missing, but I would join a chorus and I would try and I started to write and I did all these things because I thought maybe I needed a hobby, but really it was that I was totally misaligned. And so that's when I didn't have my license anymore as a psychotherapist and frankly, I didn't want to be a psychotherapist therapist anymore because I had begun to learn about neuroscience, I had begun to learn why, like the things that I had always suspected as a therapist were completely confirmed for me and in terms of the way that we change um, and I think one of the things that I have always done and that has always been important to me is I want to hold a really safe, compassionate space for whatever to show up. Show up, but I also really hold people accountable to being their best self. So, if you're we talk out of our ego all the time right, there is our ego.
Speaker 2:I mean to just completely make this really simple there is our ego and there is our essence, and I'm going to talk to your essence. Your ego may tell me a lot of things. It might tell me that you're a victim. It might tell me you know that you can't. It might tell me you know all of these things and I want to hold enough space to calm that part of you down. But I really want to engage with the part of you that is pure magic, that can create anything you want. You know that. The essence part of you that is pure love, that is, you know whatever you were when you first popped into this world. Right that is empowered.
Speaker 2:And what neuroscience really taught me, you know, is really understanding that. Look at, the way that you think and the way that you feel determines the way that you act, and the way that you act determines the experience you're going to have, and the experience you have determines how you're going to feel again, and then those feelings are going to feed more of the same thoughts and more of the same actions and you'll get in a thinking and feeling feedback loop. And this is the danger, you know, of people that are in purely talk therapy with therapists that don't understand neuroscience is that we're actually grooving in the neural networks of the trauma of the thing and we are facilitating victimhood. And nobody wants to be a victim Nobody, nobody wants. And so, um that, when you learn, when I learned, like, oh my God, this makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:Of course I went to jail. Of course I thought that I was only worthy if I had a man, and so I felt bad when I was single, just to be a really simple example. And then I acted insecure and I had an experience of no one wanting me, and then I would have more emotions of feeling insecure and unworthy. And I would have more emotions of feeling insecure and unworthy and I would feed more of the same thoughts. When I was a little girl, my girlfriend and I used to sing this song nobody likes me, everybody hates me, might as well eat worms and we would just kind of joke about it, like literally that's what we would sing. It was I don't even know. It was probably on a commercial or something and you know, this basically described kind of my unconscious process in life.
Speaker 2:Right, and so for sure, yeah, so I don't. It was probably some cartoon, but it made perfect sense. To me it's like well, where else was I going to go? Of course I was going to go to jail. I was already in jail. So now I was in my jail, in my mind there was nowhere else to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if I had been more empowered, you know, and when I began to realize, wait a minute, I've got to change this thought. And to change this thought, I've got to change a core belief that's so deep down in myself I didn't even know it was there, right, and that's kind of how that all came together. That you know really informed my practice now subconscious mind.
Speaker 1:But everything starts with that core belief that we have, and it's always so fascinating for me because it takes us forever to find out that that's the core belief, and if someone actually points it out to you, you're like, oh my goodness, yes, now I see it, it's something for us to see ourselves.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't have to be, because the easiest way to find out is just look at your life. Does your life reflect what you want? If you don't have what you want in your life, it is because your life is reflecting a belief that you have. So if you don't have love, you probably feel unworthy. If you're never getting promoted at work, it's because you have a belief that you don't deserve it, or you aren't as good or whatever it is like. Whatever your life is showing you, that's right and you know.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry to cut off. No, you know, what is also interesting is the fact that people will tell you. You know, if you are a resentful human being, people will tell you oh, you know, you're so angry Every time, you know we speak to you.
Speaker 2:You're just an angry girl, or you know, and so if you pay attention to what the people in your life say, they are actually the ones that's the mirror Like yeah, so yeah, and it's funny because those people that are saying that you probably are people pleasers and they, they, they disown the part of themselves that that is angry and that's why they can see it in you. But that's why it's so important to be able to say look, it's not that you don't deserve to feel that way. It's not. You know like this thing happened and sure you deserve to have your feelings. The question is, do you want them? Is that how you? Yeah, you have this bad thing happen. You deserve to feel bad about it. Do you want to do? You want to do?
Speaker 1:you want it Cause that was yesterday and it's not as easy.
Speaker 2:It's not as easy to drop it, you know, to just think. You know, just become something new, Right so? You have to really honor and acknowledge what you're feeling. If you're feeling anger and all of those kinds of things, you have to ask yourself the question do I want to? Is this how I want? Is this the backpack I want to wear for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:Okay, who's getting hurt? I am. It's like you know, swallowing a poison pill and expecting other people to die, you know. And then it's like, okay, well, how do I unlearn this, how do I unwire this, instead of keep hammering on about all the reasons I have to be resentful, and usually you're resentful because you did something that you shouldn't have done, that you didn't want to do, and so now you're resentful about it.
Speaker 1:Right, and this actually what you're explaining is. I know that from your work, abby, you and this actually what you're explaining is. I mean, I know that from your work, abby, you're an advocate for unlearning what no longer serves us, because it's so important for we have to let go and brave the discomfort that life brings in order to evolve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. It's choose your pain. Really, you can choose the pain of feeling resentful or you can choose the pain of dealing with the anxiety that comes up for you when you say no, yeah, dealing with the anxiety that comes up for you when you say no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, abby, I know that you do work in your practice and you've got some upcoming online courses and you also do one-on-one sessions and you've got various courses. I love the one from Hot Mess to Harmony yeah, it's such a catchy name and I like the content of that course. Do you want to sort of share with us some of the upcoming courses and what participants can expect in those courses and what they can gain from it?
Speaker 2:Sure. So the From Hot Mess to Harmony is a video course that's on my website, abbyhavermancom, and that goes through some of what we talked about today around how we've been conditioned as women that whole commercial I talked about how we've been conditioned since the dawn of time and to value ourselves externally and the fallout from that. How to be aligned with your primary purpose in any given situation not like global primary purposes, but sometimes people are like, oh, I don't know that they'll walk away from a situation and they weren't happy with how it went, or how to have a conversation or whatnot. And how to dial in on what your primary purpose is so that you're sort of always in alignment and in flow in your life.
Speaker 2:Another part of that course is about self-care and my definition of self-care, which is very different than the global definition of self-care, and also uncovering your hidden motives.
Speaker 2:So that is kind of a low you know, a low entry point. I also teach a course called for women, called Seven Weeks to Serenity, and that is wrapped. Yeah, I really liked that course and it's primarily wrapped around, uh, positive intelligence, which is the work of Shirzad Shamim, and there is an assessment that you can take, um, if you go to let's connectabbyhaverman, slash abbyhaverman, and it's, uh, the positive intelligence, saboteur assessment, and you find out basically what saboteurs you have. Do you have a pleaser, do you have a controller, do you have a stickler, do you have a hypervigilant, and how are they sabotaging you? And then that course is his six-week course that I am privileged enough to facilitate and do weekly live meetings, and then there's videos of his that you watch each week. So those are two big ones. And then I do this type of work in companies as well, with heart math and also positive intelligence, and then, of course, I have one-on-one programs as well.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a powerhouse Abby. You have got the whole package right here for the listeners, and I love that you not only empower women despite the fact that you have predominantly online courses for women but you also work. You have designated courses also for men.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Mental Fitness for Men is also the positive intelligence course, but I've had so much fun working with groups of men on that as well and seeing what saboteurs they come up with and they can go to that same place and find that assessment. It's really fascinating, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So, abby, any last words of advice that you would give somebody that is very stuck at this point in their life and that's struggling with feelings of unworthiness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. I would say that you know. Einstein said you cannot solve a problem from the same level of mind that created it. And that means that going around and around and around in your brain what should I do? What should I do? What should I do Is not going to find that solution for you. You have to get into a different part of your body. You have to get into your heart in a very authentic way and experience your pure feelings, not the ones of shame or guilt, but getting in touch with a higher part of yourself.
Speaker 2:And I really recommend that people they get a guide, that they that they take in information, that they listen to podcasts like this, you know they listen to other neuroscience podcasts.
Speaker 2:That they read books breaking the habit of being yourself or, um, there's so many different. The end to upside down thinking, you know, there's so many phenomenal books. Feed your brain, like you feed your body, so that you can begin to open your awareness to what life can be, because sometimes we just don't even know that. We get so bogged down with the stress and the daily things and mass media we have no idea. And it all starts with learning something new and then something triggers in brain like oh, wait a minute, maybe there's another possibility, and then things go from there. So I would just really encourage people to to continue to educate themselves, find a guide if they want to, but at the very least read and listen, and listen to things that are uplifting. You know that they're teaching them something new, so that they can begin to look at what's happening in their lives as gifts and opportunities instead of life sentences.
Speaker 1:Those are powerful words and I love that. You know, surround yourself with the information and the knowledge that really is energizing you, rather than that that sucks the energy from you. Wise words Thank you, abby, for sharing such a powerful journey with us today on the podcast. And I mean your insights have really just been invaluable, as you've just articulated with us today, and you have such a beautiful nature, you have such a beautiful way of finding humor in your story to make it relatable, and I love that about you and I mean your story again. It's just again such a testament of just the strength of what we go through as humans. But we have the strength to come out on the other side and we have that potential to really transform in our lives. You know, and even if sometimes we hit that low point in life, it is that catalyst and we see it from your story that even you know, lying on that cell block or having to speak through the glass on the phone, it acted as a catalyst for such positive change in your life. And I really want to encourage the listeners to look at their own lives and take a leaf from Abby's book and say that, even if I feel down and this feels like it's low point. It is an opportunity for positive change To the listeners.
Speaker 1:If you are inspired by Abby's story, be sure to check her out. She's got some coaching services as well as some resources on her website, which I will link for you in the show notes below. And remember that the path to self-awareness and, of course, empowerment it always starts with recognizing our worth. So join us next time as we continue our journey and explore growth and resilience on the path of healing. Until then, stay curious and keep growing. Abby, thank you so much for joining us and have a wonderful rest of your day.
Speaker 2:Thank you, marlene, and thank you for this incredible gift that you offer everybody with your podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I am honored to stand in service of humanity every day. Thanks to stand in service of humanity every day. Thanks, Abby, Take care Bye. That wraps up this podcast episode. Thank you for listening. If you enjoy my podcast, please take a minute to give me a rating and review in Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe to your favorite podcast directory so you don't miss an episode. Please consider following my Scented Life on Facebook and Instagram for daily inspiration. Thank you so much for spending this time with me. You can catch me again in the next episode. Same time, same place, Sending you lots of love and light. Bye.