The Farmer's Planning Podcast

Modern Farming Needs Modern Planning Solutions

• Guy French • Season 3 • Episode 1

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What happens when farming meets the complex world of modern planning regulations? At the half-year mark, we're exploring the evolving landscape of agricultural planning applications across Essex, Suffolk, Cambridge, and Kent.

The introduction of new inheritance tax rules has significantly impacted how farming families approach their business structures. We're witnessing an increase in strategy meetings where the key questions revolve around optimizing existing buildings, dividing assets effectively, and exploring the income potential of various permitted changes. Every farm and family brings unique circumstances to the table, requiring tailored planning solutions.

We've observed a concerning disconnect between planning authorities and agricultural realities. Modern farming machinery has grown substantially in size, necessitating wider entrances and more substantial infrastructure than previous generations required. Yet planning officers—particularly those from urban-focused councils—frequently prioritize ecological considerations without recognizing that the countryside must function as a working landscape. The implementation of Biodiversity Net Gain requirements has further complicated matters, especially for farm access applications.

Permitted Development rights continue to offer the most straightforward path through the planning system. We strongly recommend maximizing these opportunities wherever possible—for tracks, yards, barns, commercial extensions, and residential conversions. The increased allowance of 1,500 square metres for agricultural buildings presents valuable opportunities, while Class Q residential conversions have seen greater success following legislative changes that have expanded eligibility to include modern portal frame buildings.

One fascinating aspect we've discovered is how drastically planning regulations differ internationally. Compared to American farmers who enjoy significantly more freedom to build on their rural land, UK agricultural businesses face a uniquely challenging regulatory environment that requires strategic navigation.

Have you encountered planning obstacles on your farm? Share your experiences with us and discover how maximizing your permitted development rights could unlock new opportunities for your agricultural business.

Guy:

Farmer's Planning Podcast is back and we're all here and we're going to give you an update on what's been happening for the last six months, the first half of the year, halfway through the year. So what's been going on?

Mel:

We've been very busy really. We have been. We have been covering most of Essex, some of Suffolk, a little foray into Cambridge and Kent as well, and we have covered a very wide variety of applications in this last six months.

Guy:

What's been the theme of what farmers have been up to? Is it new sheds? Are they converting? Are they diversifying? Are they building houses under the new government?

Mel:

There's a very different mix. Actually. I think there's a good spattering across everything. A lot of farmers are taking advantage of the 1500 meters squared now, which is good news, um, and also looking at current permissions and seeing how they can expand those to maximize their storage potential. Equally, they're looking at building that they've already got how best to use them. I've been called out for several strategy meetings recently of how I've got these got how best to use them. I've been called out for several strategy meetings recently of how I've got these structures, how can I use them, what's the best way forward? What planning regulations do I need to consider and I think this has come off the back of families having to look at their business structure and where they're moving forward, particularly in terms of the new inheritance tax rules that have come in.

Guy:

So you're finding farms are being split up, or are people just being more strategic? Are they trying to move assets around? What's going on?

Mel:

Generally it's a bit of everything, because farms are so individual and families are so individual, it has to work for them. But definitely the strategy is right. If we do divide up, what can I do with this building? If so-and-so has that bit, what can they do?

Guy:

And then, looking at the value of the buildings and the value of the income that you can get from these changes of uses, and how do you find planners are perceiving it, with holdings being split, so say, you need another farm access and things like that, because there's things like the biodiversity net gain that's come in. That's slightly complicated accesses.

Mel:

Wherever possible, we're trying to retain the accesses. Sometimes it's not as possible, but wherever we can, we do.

Guy:

Because a farm tract should be permitted like it's. It's a. If you're a farmer, you need a road or an access to get into your farm you absolutely do, and and also to access across um your holding as well.

Mel:

I'm in consultation with somebody at the moment who's actually going to be impacted by a sit scheme and then and they're going to have a parcel that's completely cut off. So we're discussing how a track application could help with the negotiation with the SIP scheme that's involved and how best way forward to approach that.

Guy:

What's your thoughts, Katie? What are you finding? Because we had to withdraw a farm access recently because the planners thought removing 10 metres of hedge was unreasonable.

Katie:

I found that they have been quite challenging on the environmental fronts recently in terms of, like you say, perceiving these hedgerows as valuable which of course they have value but not recognising the balance of the ecology and the need.

Guy:

Definitely.

Katie:

And especially when it comes to BNG, there's been areas of things that are not particularly vegetated.

Guy:

Because farmers are quite environmentally caring anyway. So it's a bit frustrating when you're with a planning officer who's been sometimes obtrusive about the ecological side of things, or they're going for a consultee saying, oh, the ecology outweighs the agricultural need. Well, the countryside is a living working landscape. Farmers still need to farm and stuff is modernizing. We're not in the 1950s with older tractors and older gateways. You know, if we need to widen entrances or make it so that we can swing a good trailer in and stuff, you need to be able to, don't we really?

Mel:

so I don't think planning officers actually have a good understanding of that, really, because machinery has grown so much.

Guy:

Yeah in size. So sophie, who heads up our marketing uh, not from farming at all has come in and said I had no idea that farmers were not the stereotypes that I thought. So they meet me, they meet other sort of similar age farmers and they're saying oh, you're actually quite sort of modern, normal people, yes. But then I gave a scenario with her where I was watching snatch on netflix the series, and they had a stereotypical farmer in his welly boots and his barber jacket and his flat cap and it's like, no, that is not what farming is and they don't spend all day just sat on the tractor fiddling digging a hole. But with modern farming businesses that you know are growing in the countryside, aren't we?

Mel:

and and have requirements that are not necessarily completely understood by rural planning offices yeah, and you can't build an essex barn, can you?

Guy:

and have some timber frame building and be like I'm going to tip all my grain up in there. You're going to need a modern steel border frame shed, a concrete floor.

Mel:

You've got to meet food hygiene as much as everyone else, so and that, and that's kind of why these older buildings that were put up in the 1960s and 1970s are no longer suitable. You can't tip in them, you can't get your modern agricultural trailer in there and and tip to its full height. Which is why looking at those buildings and using what you've got is so important, because, with changes in the business and the fact that the industry is in a state of flux, they have to look at diversifying and the best way forward on that and looking at what you've got and making it work as hard as possible.

Katie:

I think, fortunately, with applications recently, any queries that the council have had on existing buildings, with a little bit of conversation and explanation on modern agricultural machinery, it's a lack of understanding from them of the rural and farming environment.

Guy:

Yeah, and they process information and understand and say, ah, I see now, yeah, so if a farmer wants to put down some more farmyard or hard standing, how are we finding those applications at the moment, silence. I think the more urban edge councils are the ones that are much more scrutinizing of permitted development applications.

Katie:

I think the more rural we get, the better I would agree because the, the rural officers, have got an understanding of the countryside, whereas when you're dealing with a city council that also happens to encompass some of the countryside, their focus is towards that urban development and are you finding repeat planning officers or are you finding it short term?

Mel:

that very much depends on the council, yeah, and are they?

Guy:

do they give any feedback in terms of their resourcing? Are they overwhelmed? Are they? How do they understand the permitted development and stuff?

Mel:

there's lots going on, chomps said. Herford apparently had a restructure recently and they've been divided into north south, much like culture has.

Mel:

They've also recently done a similar restructuring process um and it's the most frustrating thing with chomps, but not that you cannot speak to the planning officer and you have to email a general inbox and try and get hold of the officer yes, that is probably the most frustrating thing, but once you get hold of a planning officer, what I'm finding is that you can you can speak to them in terms of an email conversation, um, and actually I would say that's kind of character of the individual planning officer. Some are more willing to email and discuss than others. Some are very much more hands-off and don't communicate directly Other councils. Maldon is in a complete state of disarray at the moment.

Guy:

Yeah, it's causing significant damage to applications, delaying the pipeline of jobs that are coming. Yeah, it's causing significant deniers of applications.

Mel:

Delaying the pipeline of jobs that are coming. So I think, as long as we're making our clients aware of the fact that it will be a longer process than we would like, they're very understanding because they understand it takes the time it takes.

Guy:

What's our top tips at the moment? What are we finding with planning applications? People need to be sort of quick and alert with stuff.

Katie:

PD applications are the easiest, still remain to be the easiest way forward because there's no consideration for BNG access and things. Bng has been slowing councils down because planning officers won't give any guidance on it.

Guy:

Then it needs solicitors, legal agreements, lots of costs, which is just very frustrating.

Katie:

So if you can't make use of the £1,500, you've got to always always, always, always, use your rights wherever you can.

Guy:

And although they're rights, we've got to remember that they're not given. It's still quite a complex planning process with the planners that we have to go through and justification circle to get round to getting permission.

Mel:

I like to call it more of a slimline approach in the fact that it narrows the considerations, because the wider considerations the more opportunity there is for difficulties to arise with the consultees, whereas the slimline approach you only it. It torchlights onto certain areas and you know compliance with those is essential. But in the main, when you actually look at your building, for example on a change of use under permitted development, you know there's there's really only four main considerations. As long as the building has been in agricultural use for a set number of times, those four areas are usually covered off anyway. So it makes it a more straightforward approach to seeking permission.

Guy:

Give us some case studies then. So what's on, what's been happening? What type of things have we been applying for?

Mel:

Well, there's a long list of a variety, really A good balance of commercial, a good balance of agricultural. We've got some more equine applications coming through, like what Menages?

Katie:

Menages, stables and, yeah, the knowledge is in the tables um, what about the commercial side of things?

Mel:

what type of thing are we seeing change of uses, new builds lots of change of uses actually, which is good to see, um and within that commercial trend, use lots of storage use, which is um a good use of buildings, um, um, temporary uses can be considered as, particularly if you've got, perhaps, an insect coming to your land, a temporary use could be beneficial. And also, looking at buildings to change to residential.

Guy:

How are we finding the residential, so the class Q, because we've had some approved in quite rural locations and then other ones where they're probably in a farmyard might be more challenging. Or how are you finding the new sort of sizing and regs that came in last year?

Mel:

I think planning officers are being I don't want to use the word lenient at all.

Guy:

The new legislation has been helpful in the fact that, so that's the 150 square metre houses, up to 10 houses um, I think prior to that there was.

Mel:

So there was so much case law where applications on the class q had been refused and planning officers were being obstructive sometimes to what was what to do, whereas the new legislation has opened it up a lot more to to make the ease of that change of use better yeah, I think, rather than where planners before were looking at ways to refuse it, I think they're now looking at ways to approve it I agree there's a much more. There's a reset in the in the viewpoint from the councils.

Guy:

I I think yeah, so class Q is an opportunity.

Mel:

Definitely.

Katie:

And as well in those situations where it has been in agricultural use and has not had any alternate use, and you can evidence it.

Mel:

it's been a relatively straightforward application and actually the scope's widened on the buildings, because buildings that are quite young can be changed, be changed. Portal frames yeah, yes, the portal frames. So you know there's, there's an opportunity. Yeah, I think there's a vision out there that it can only be old essex barns, but it's not like that anymore. Your modern buildings are tell me about pre-apps.

Guy:

You don't quite like pre-apps. What's the advantage of these pre-apps?

Katie:

so they're applications before we apply uh, we found it has saved clients a considerable in survey fees yeah you know not having to put in those heritage and ecology reports, engaging a judgment on an application, before you go full steam ahead with all those surveys. Um, and they've been quite constructive. The planning officers have engaged well with them and they've been quite constructive.

Mel:

The planning officers have engaged well with them and they've been forms of full planning applications it's really important when you're particularly looking at diversifying, if it's an out of the ordinary scheme. A pre-app is so helpful in the way that you can seek the council's opinion on whether they think it'd be supportive or not survey dependent, and usually the planning officers are very good at directing you into a position of what you think be supported or not.

Mel:

Um subject to surveys which is often the case, but their opinion is really helpful to inform full application coming forward so what we're saying overall is then still max out on pds.

Guy:

You know, use those where you can. That's for tracks, yards, barns, change of use, commercial extensions people forget about that quite often and residential. So you know a lot of the planning on your farm can be done through permitted development.

Mel:

Can't always, but you know they're the opportunities and if you've got a permitted commercial use on farm and and with business growing and your tenants needs, you know there is a permitted development route through to expand that property under permitted development yeah um, which is not a widely known fact, but it is there so she, you've joined the podcast.

Guy:

Um, we, you've been going out meeting farmers, meeting clients and stuff like that. And what's your view of farming? Because you, you haven't come from anything to do with farming, so you've come into the industry and what was your stereotypical farmer?

Katie:

so my whole life I've seen the stereotypical farmer as someone very different to the recent farmers that I've met um good or bad in a good way, a very good way. Um, yeah, I always had that stereotype in my head that they would just have animals and that was it, and then the you know, they'll grow a few crops, and that's fine, um, and it's a lot more different than I thought it was. So I'm learning a fair amount.

Guy:

Yeah, and you're finding that farms are more diverse businesses than just farms basically, so they're not just growing crops. When you're turning up, you know we're looking at this, you're looking at the shed, you know we've got planning for them, yeah, and a lot of them have got sort of diversification activities. So you've been to a vineyard, which is quite exciting.

Katie:

Yeah, that was really good. Good day out. Yeah, and you've been around some commercial sites and other stuff too yeah, yeah, I've done a done a bit of a range of it.

Mel:

I'm looking forward to doing doing more talk to us about what you perhaps seen on your visits what's been your perception when you turned up on the farms?

Katie:

it wasn't what I was expecting yeah so I I genuinely was expecting probably, yeah, like mud, some animals, um, and I get that there will be some farmers out there that have all of that yeah, um, but that's really what I was expecting. It's so different and also, you know, going there it's um, it's opened my eyes to, like, the world of farming.

Guy:

It's given me a good insight to what it's actually like, as opposed to just hearing it in the office because we were saying earlier that the stereotype was when I was watching snatch on netflix and there's this guy in sort of welly boots and a flat cap and stuff yeah, and that's what I pictured when I first went.

Guy:

Yeah, really not like that at all and you're finding farmers quite go ahead, quite forward thinking, quite dynamic in their approach. Definitely. Yeah, katie, you've been to america for a month. Tell us all about it it was great.

Katie:

It's a different world of farming. In terms of their regulations, they're several years behind us. They have somewhat more flexibility with road legal machinery and things you can do. When we find you're saying about the planning commission so if they purchase land and it lies outside of the city limits they're free to do what they like, then my cousins are absolutely baffled at the concept of having to apply for a barn on your land and just could not comprehend it at all.

Guy:

Is it like bandit country, then you can build what you want, or do they just not build?

Katie:

Well, I think they'll build a home that's to the need of the elderly, but there's so much land there that they don't need to sell the land for development schemes. I mean it's that it happens around. You know huntsville and cities, but in the country you build enough for your family. You build a barn for your cows and it's quite a quiet life it's. They don't need all of the diversification and things. They're still very much what you would imagine to be a traditional farmer.

Guy:

And they all have a few cows and sheep and chickens.

Katie:

It was very common. My couples both worked full-time jobs and they just got land and cows and they worked cows and took them to market and so it's a hobby for people there.

Mel:

Is it true that the government guarantees a price for the crops they grow?

Katie:

I'm sure I've heard that somewhere. I think their insurance works slightly different. So you'd mentioned before as well, hadn't you? I went to the conference that their insurance schemes mean that if their crop fails they've got something. I do know that for young people wanting to get into farming, I'll find in the UK, I imagine, it's a lot more difficult if you're not from a farming background to then farm, whereas there there's incentives for young couples, young individuals, to farm, so they'll get a subsidy for land as, like that land, I think it's very true of young people in this country who want to get into farming.

Mel:

It's incredibly challenging if you haven't come from a farm yourself I think what katie's saying.

Guy:

In america they probably don't do it like they do. There are the big agri businesses and stuff, but there's much more sort of the I don't know what the word is smaller. Yeah, they've got full-time jobs, haven't they? And then they're just farming for a whole bunch of hours in the instead of playing football and and they use it.

Katie:

So the cows that are on their land they take, take to market when they're calf and that pays for their land payments.

Guy:

So they're actually getting a decent price for it.

Katie:

Yeah.

Guy:

And rodeo.

Katie:

Rodeo is so cool One of the craziest things I could say. There was a guy on a bull and he got knocked out and he fell off the cow. It was a different world, though Completely different world. I now want to be a cowgirl, but I have no skills to be a cowgirl. I still learn to ride. I go run after a cow in my wenny boots. That's about as close as I get. Did you try any roping or anything? Oh yeah, actually we were gifted a nassau as well, so they've been stacking buckets in the garden so they've been so little.

Katie:

It really hurts when someone gets you with it. I tell you that much. How difficult is it? Really hard until you get. I think once you get the neck of it you're probably alright. But this is on a stationary bucket. I can't imagine doing it from horseback onto a cow. That's a whole lot of work. It's a dissonant thing. People saying you're moving, the object is moving, yeah, and you're balancing, when actually I think there. But out west it's probably slightly different, but they just use quad bikes. They don't really round up, as we've all seen shoes around, but they're all just in the area back of a quad bike yellow stuff just in yellow.