Working With Family On The Farm: The Conversations Nobody Wants To Have

The hardest part of farm planning permission is rarely the drawings, the policy, or the application. It is the people sitting around the kitchen table.

In this episode we sit down as a husband-and-wife team running a farm business together and talk candidly about what actually happens when your colleague is also your partner. The shared days and shared wins are obvious. The friction is just as real — different personalities, different risk appetites, and decisions that carry years of family history.

We unpack what makes family farm businesses work when the farm is asset-rich but cash poor and everyone has a view on what should happen next. We cover aligning goals before money gets spent, splitting responsibilities so strengths are actually used, and why naming a clear leader for each project stops decisions dragging on for months.

We move into succession through a practical lens: bringing the next generation into leadership early enough to build momentum, while still drawing on the older generation who have lived through the harder market cycles.

Then we turn to opportunity. If you have older buildings, hardstanding, or a yard that is no longer earning, there is often real rural planning potential sitting there unused. We discuss conversions, diversified uses, why pace matters, and when leasing a venture is a smarter first move than transferring assets or carrying the cost yourself.

If you are working through diversification, succession, or a tricky family decision around rural development, subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review.

What would you align first on your farm — goals, roles, or leadership?

www.foxesrural.co.uk

Transcript

Meet Emily And The Setup

Speaker 0:00

I'm Guy and I help farmers get planning permission on their farms. Welcome back to the Farmers Planning Podcast, and we've got a new episode for you. Today, I have the lovely guest of my wife, Emily. And actually, if my wife on the podcast is definitely going to test something, whether it's our marriage or our working relationship, let's see how it goes. Emily, welcome to the podcast, the Farmers Planning Podcast.

Speaker 1 0:22

Thanks very much.

Speaker 0:24

So you're one of the founders and the directors of Fox is Rural. Um, and it's really awkward having you sat next to me talking about something quite professional like this. So on the way in, we were actually talking about the newlyweds podcast, and I was told that Jamie Lang and Sophie are no longer on that.

Speaker 1 0:45

Yeah, because they're married already.

Speaker 0:47

Oh right. Um and we we're trying to think of podcast formats, so yeah, we're just talking about that. And what do you

Pros And Cons Of Working Together

Speaker 1:00

think? So you run your own farm business at the moment, we run it together and we have done for you know over 15 years. What's it like working with me as your husband?

Speaker 1 1:12

Um I think it definitely has pros and cons. Um one thing is that we never have to come in at the end of the day and say, How's your day been? Because we've shared the day together, so we know exactly how it's been in terms of what's gone on, if anything's dramatic's happened, etc. Um I would say we are very different people personality-wise. So that again has its pros and cons in that we take um take the responsibilities and roles differently that suit our personalities more. I'm much happier on the phone, doing sales. Um that's kind of where my strengths lay. Whereas you're much more on the policy, the procedures, and doing the strategy and doing things right.

Speaker 1:59

Yeah, so it it makes a good team like that. But because we've got opposite strengths, and I think a lot of farmers will be family businesses. So, you know, working with husbands and wife, you know, it it it becomes quite common in the farming industry. Um it's uh we're finding that, you know, when we're doing a lot of planning on farms, there will be succession issues, there will be father and son, husband and wife, uh, you know, sisters or brothers or or siblings. And sometimes, you know, it's far far-fetched. There's a lot of people involved sometimes on a small piece of land, and you've got different objectives there. So managing everyone's sort of policies and what they want to do in terms of their objectives on the farm can sometimes differ. And what we find on some farms is you know, they'll be asset-rich but cash poor. So they've got these opportunities with buildings, but they might not have a structure in place as to how they might be able to take the farm forward. So I think that's quite important. I mean, when you and I, you know, set up our farming businesses, we're both from family farming backgrounds, but actually we always set up our own independent farming business. So we've always said that that gave us a little bit of freedom to be able to make our own decisions, buy our own machinery, and we would rent land, and it meant that we weren't answerable to other people. And that gave us more opportunities to then go and buy some land and put some planning opportunities on it as

Aligning Goals In Family Farms

Speaker 3:20

well. So what would you say from you know a business perspective, if there are family farms watching this, how would how would what would be your sort of number one tip for advising them on how to run that family business?

Speaker 1 3:33

I think they need to um make sure that their goals are aligned. So obviously, being husband and wife, we have the same objectives at the end of the day of what we want to achieve on the farm. And I think if you have multiple families with different mix of personalities, sometimes maybe the husband's involved in the farm and the wife does something different. It's hard to hear all of that noise. Everyone needs to actually realise, right, we've got X amount of money, we're going to invest it in XYZ, rather than one person wanting to proceed and explore, do planning opportunities, do, you know, do lots of diversification. And you sometimes have another family member who's far more reserved and not risk, you know, not willing to take any risks. I think that's where the conflict might arise in farming farming families. I think you do need to make sure that you you're yeah, you're you're well aligned, you know what you want to do. And also sometimes maybe elect a leader. I would say, in terms of us, you are the one that is is riskier, you've you've got loads of good ideas, and I I need you as that driving force. If I didn't have you in front of me, I wouldn't be achieving what I am. But they're not saying that you need me behind you to do all the legwork and actually do what we're doing. So we we work well together like that, but you do need someone who has got the ideas and got the drive to push and want that next thing wants to achieve, wants to see what they can do on their farms.

Speaker 5:05

And I would say in our own farming situation, you know, we've got a mixture of structures, we've got our own farming businesses, and then we do have a you know a family farming business as well, don't we? And I would say some of the experience from running that is, you know, we we live on site, so we deal with a lot of the day-to-day issues that might not be seen or dealt with, but then other family members have got other strengths that they're dealing with on the farm that we might not have. So it does complement each other well, but you know, I'd say that we're very much at the coal face of everything by living there, aren't we? So, you know, if a lorry turns up at six in the morning, it's ringing the gilling us and and you know, I'm going out to load it or whatever, you know.

Speaker 1 5:49

So I do also think that nothing is ever perfect in any kind of business, farm, any kind of diversification. And I think everyone needs to know that at the outset that yes, we might be the ones that are impacted on a day-to-day basis when someone's knocking at the door or delivering a parcel or whatever. However, other people have got maybe I don't know, they've got strengths in dealing with the difficult tenants or um things like that. So nothing's perfect. Everyone needs to just be aligned and do their roles, really.

Speaker 6:19

Yeah, and I think that's

Generations Leadership And Outside Help

Speaker 6:20

the biggest learning from what we hear from clients, you know, it's just trying to align. And I know it's easier said than done, because there will be a mix of personalities in those farming businesses. Um, but it's trying to get the next generation into leadership fairly early on and giving them a little bit of freedom to create, I think. And, you know, you and I created independently of that. And it wasn't until later in life that we've been able to get into the family farm side of things, you know, for 20 years before that. We, you know, we were running independently, weren't we, in terms of our farming business. With like Milwenna and I, you know, we were talking about it yesterday with a client, and you know, they're they're being very proactive at getting the next generation in, and that will bring forward um lots of opportunities for for that business because there's a lot of energy there. But there's also what I've learnt is you know, there are older and wiser people within the business as well that have been there and seen a little bit. And whether you agree with them or not, sometimes I've got some quite valid points to raise. And as a younger person, you're quite often going, Oh, well, come on, I I've got these ideas I know best. But actually, you know, you realise that when someone might be 20, 40 years older, they have actually been through, you know, different market spaces, different different economics over their lifetime that might provide a little bit of useful feedback when you're trying to diversify into something.

Speaker 1 7:46

I think you're showing your age there, guy. You've got grown older and wiser. No, I do agree. I I think that that probably is totally true. The younger generation are probably more impatient, more hungry, they want to make their change, they want to have their impact on the farming business, and the parent maybe can be potentially stuck in their ways, but also is a bit more hesitant because they've seen, like you said, a lot of what could go wrong potentially. So I actually think that is where I know that you and Moena have been doing those calls, and I think that's quite good when you're getting someone external in, not to, you know, um be in charge, but almost just to to hear what everyone can say and give their professional opinion without being emotionally involved. Because I think from a farm a family perspective, you might not want to upset the other person, who's in charge? Is it the elder? Is it the younger? Whereas if you've got someone else coming in saying, Okay, well, actually, I think if it was me, I would do XYZ, then I'd do ABC.

Speaker 8:51

Yeah, it gives them both kind of a because actually you you you've raised quite a good point there. I'd say a lot of the things that come up, you know, on our calls with people are it is emotion is actually the driving force, and that's then what's causing the conflict. And if we can take the emotion out and and have the logic there of what everyone wants to achieve, then you're actually getting far better outcomes. Um and it's difficult, you know, f farms have gone up a lot in value, you know, there's a lot of family interest in there, and there might be siblings that need paying out, there might be, you know, it might be that the farm's losing

Planning Permission Opportunities On Farms

Speaker 9:25

money. You know, that there's lots of factors that sometimes sort of dictate where you're going. But we we just see that there's a huge opportunity for planning on farms. And, you know, we've been doing our own planning, like we say, you know, for 20 years now. And it's like some of those things where, you know, we might have had buildings, you know, they're then getting converted into a house or a commercial unit. You know, there's opportunities that come forward. And I'd always say, you know, a number one tip to a farmer is if you've got buildings hardstanding or yards, there's always going to be an opportunity. There might be a cost up front, but if you can do something with your older buildings and then build new buildings, you you're creating double the opportunity.

Speaker 1 10:04

I think the unique thing about farming as an industry is that you never get out of that industry. Even if people have retired, they don't retire from farming. They're always there, whether living on the farm or having even a non-active role. Just thinking of my own grandfather who is 98. He lives on the farm. He's involved in the farm in terms of walking around it. He's emotionally involved in the farm, even though he doesn't physically do anything on the farm.

Speaker 10:34

He's sometimes got some good stories about it, like the Lancaster bomber that went down in such and such field, you know.

Speaker 1 10:40

But I think it's in it's in the blood, and all the farming fields are all named, and they know the history of why that's called Skew Path, why that's called, you know, field that it it's it's a unique industry. I don't know anything else like it. Um, all the farmers know each other or know of someone else. So I think that's why farms are so uh unique and so not controlled, but as in they're so important to each family because of the generation of the history and then the wanting to continue it for future and future generations.

Practical Tips And Final Takeaways

Speaker 11:16

So, what's your number one tip then as a parting comment for farmers in terms of you know succession planning and on farm planning in your own experience?

Speaker 1 11:26

I would say uh try and align your roles, try and um get on as best you can, and probably in the initial stages, get someone in to help help advise, just to set the the future of your of your farming diversifications and also don't don't go too fast.

Speaker 11:46

And sometimes I'd say as well is that you don't necessarily need to trans transfer something. You can sometimes just lease something back. Like would you know, we we leased our our pumpkin patches, didn't we? You know, it was a way of us being able to do something. Um and sometimes I think people want to do everything yesterday. Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:05

Um I know that's where you and I differ. You like to go a million miles an hour, and I like to go at a normal speed. Um, but I do think that with things like farming and diversifications, because things are expensive, putting up new barns can be expensive. I think they really need to work out what needs to be done today, what needs to be done next year and the following years, rather than trying to, you know, run before you can walk.

Speaker 12:30

Well, thanks for coming on the podcast. It's been really insightful.

Speaker 1 12:33

Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 12:34

No problem, you know. Um, yeah, so no, I think that's really interesting. I think that you know, farmers will take something away from that, and you know, nothing's perfect, is it? And you and you've highlighted that. So you know, we've just got to you know, try and take the emotion out of it. But there's lots of planning opportunities uh well, loads of planning opportunities that exist for farmers, and they've just got to look at it, you know, collaboratively as a family.

Speaker 1 12:59

Definitely.