MSCHE Pillars of Change
MSCHE Pillars of Change
Episode 2 - Dr. Wayne Frederick, President of Howard University
Middle States Commission on Higher Education Executive Committee member Dr. Carl Person welcomes Dr. Wayne Frederick, President of Howard University, to the MSCHE's Pillars of Change podcast for an engaging and wide-ranging conversation about diversity, equity, and inclusion issues.
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Dr. Carl Person:Welcome to the Pillars of Change podcast presented by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. I am Commissioner Dr. Carl Person a public member serving on the Executive Committee of the Commission and a former NASA official. I would like to thank you for joining me for the Commission's continued series of podcasts, focusing on the topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion. The Middle States Commission on Higher Education is closely aligned with the ensuring trust and instilling confidence in higher education. As an institutional accreditor, the Commission prides itself on advocating for honest, self-reflection that results in meaningful change at our institutions. And because the Commission recognizes that it holds an important voice and space within the higher education community, this podcast series spotlights highly effective institutional practices that have made a difference in the lives of our students through diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. Today, we are talking with Dr. Wayne Frederick President of Howard University. A distinguished scholar and administrator Dr. Frederick has advanced Howard University's commitment to student opportunity, academic innovation, workforce development, public service, and fiscal stability. Under his leadership. Howard is t hat the forefront of driving the conversation on issues of diversity, equity, and inclusion, not to mention now having one of the most famous alumni in the world, Vice President of the United States, Kamala Harris, and I know a wonderful celebration is ongoing at Howard. So welcome Dr. Frederick and thank you for joining me today.
Dr. Wayne Frederick:All right. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Dr. Carl Person:So we're going to jump right into the questions. What is your sense of race, diversity, and inclusion in our country today?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah, you know, I think, um, you know, today what we are experiencing and seeing, um, I think is that you eruption of what has been under the surface. So it's always existed. So almost like you you've had a volcano that has been spitting some ash, uh ashes for some time and now you have a major eruption. I think. So it's always been there. The rumblings have been taking place, and I think a certain segment of our society, uh, to be quite honest, has ignored it for one reason or another. Um, and that now I think has, has burst into the open. I do think we have to also make some distinctions, some distinctions between race and ethnicity. Uh, you know, I think oftentimes we use the terms interchangeably, but we have to recognize, especially as we become, uh, such a smaller world because of the connectivity, um, who the types of people who are interacting with one another and what happens as a result really changes, um, you know, the, the construct of, of the idea of race as a genetic profile or genetic descendancy versus an ethnicity in terms of how people identify and their culture, their cultural and environmental, um, compass. And, and then when you talk about, um, you know, inclusion and equity, uh, again, you talk about something different than it has to be, more than justice, because it's not just about, um, giving people something for nothing, but it's about being fear. It's about, um, living in a more just society that recognizes the humanity in all of us, which I think should be the umbrella, uh, for any discussion on these issues. That there's a humanity in all of us that has to be respected, um, really revered and to be quite honest, um, really held up.
Dr. Carl Person:Excellent. And I think your discussion of defining the issues of race, diversity, and inclusion as separate entities, but it leads me to my next question. What role does higher education play in enhancing or altering the conversation of diversity and inclusion on individual campuses?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:You know, I think higher education plays a critical role because you have young people in their formative years, um, who will go on to become leaders in our society. You have faculty who have spent a lot of time researching issues, accumulating a lot of knowledge. And so you really have the perfect, um, cauldron as it were for all of the ingredients that come together and form. Um, what I think could be a great solution. However, what has happened is we've become, um, I think a bit technocratic for lack of a better description around giving people the technical information they need and knowledge. Uh, we started talking about skillsets and credentialing, but what we in doing that, I think all of us, I, I, I support, but what I think that has some has probably taken away some attention from, um, is the fact that we are in a lot of ways, the solution, for big social issues. And the way that we promote that is by making young people who recognize that if they work together, even if they disagree politically or they have different religious beliefs. So they, they are from different ethnicities, that there is a magic in critical thinking and critical discussion that results in bigger solutions. And I think as our higher ed institutions, we have to play a role in and making sure that the young people who come to us have an appreciation of the bigger problems and the fact that they actually may represent the solution, but they don't do that as individuals. They do that as members of a larger team. And that team right now today, uh, is the human race.
Dr. Carl Person:Excellent. I think I just recently read somewhere where Howard was named the number one private institution in social mobility or something like
Dr. Wayne Frederick:That. That's correct. That's absolutely correct.
Dr. Carl Person:Yes. So let's move on. So during the past year or so, we frequently heard the following two statements, statements of support are important to solidify the position of the college or university. Actions and engagement are the hallmarks of institutional position and change. So do you see those two statements separately or sort of, um, look at them together?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah, I think that's a great question. Uh, the presidency of all universities, I think has become a very complex and complicated. Uh, we want our presidents to do everything and we often do not, um, undo the presidency from the president. And I think that's an important distinction. The presidency of a university is very different from the president who may hold that position at the time. And what we want to see in our president is an expression from the presidency that takes away their humanity to some extent we want that person to be a mechanical, um, purveyor of messages. And I think that's why we end up with these statements as opposed to, if we would allow our presidents to get back to what they used to be the embodiment of the culture in our universities. I think then we would give some more latitude on what that expression and then the subsequent action is. Um, and I think that, that we have to start, I think, um, letting our presidents, uh, lead and take that appropriately in the society that they used to. I mean, you think of a Father Hesburgh and you place them in this time. And I think often of not just what he would say, but what he would subsequently do and yet it's it then latitude, right? He didn't have to be a social scientist. So, you know, he didn't have to be, um, the, the person who understood race theory the best, you know, all of those things in one statement, that's impossible. Uh, but I think he would have been at the forefront of calling for justice. It would have been at the forefront for calling for change. Then he would have been at the forefront for setting up structures to do that. But I think that the latitude that is given to presidents today, um, isn't quite there having said that there are some who do it, let me just be clear. You know, I think President McGuire at Trinity is an example. Um, some of us run very public private universities like I do. And that latitude in some ways is constrained, unfortunately.
Dr. Carl Person:Yes, absolutely. So your response leads me directly to my next question. What role does the college or university president play in diversity and inclusion, both on campus and the surrounding communities. And I know you being there in the Shaw area of DC, which is really the heart of the city. Uh there's. There's been change in your area. So how do you react to that question?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah, so I, you know, I'll tell you, I think, I think the president, it starts with the president, it starts with his leadership and also we have to be the first thing I think you have to do to do is to be honest with what is the institution that you're running, what are its strengths and its weaknesses that's oftentimes we, uh, we are resistant to speak truth to power as it were. Right. So for instance, I was speaking about my experience at Howard when I started, um, I had one woman Dean, right? All the teaching schools and colleges, and anybody would argue that Howard's DNA is social justice. Well, if it is, how could you have 70% undergrad or, um, undergrads as a woman and you have one woman Dean. So I decided that that was my issue. So all of my search committees, have gender balance, everybody has to do unconscious bias training and competency, cultural competency training. And I don't interview finalists unless one of them is a woman. Now, nine of my deans are women. And so it has to start, I think, with the leadership. The second thing I would say it's maybe viewed as a bit controversial. I don't necessarily believe in diversity and inclusion officers. And let me be clear about this. Um, I think the people who do that work do fantastic work, but my point is that if you are serious about it, then it should reside in the president's portfolio. You shouldn't have to create a separate diversity and inclusion office or officer, uh, to do it that still suggests that it's probably not necessarily your priority. I think if the president takes that on, as this is my responsibility to fit that sense of fair, very different message, everybody else in the organization, if the president is at those meetings is talking about it, then every statement he or she makes, I think it comes in for. And then when you, then when, after you've done your own self examination and make sure that your house is in order, you can speak to the wider public one about what you've done, but also about what you want to see in terms of the change, right? So the change has to start with us and then you have to do it on, you mentioned. Shaw. And in fact, the neighborhood is gentrified and that's true. So what I did early on in my presidency is I invited the neighborhood into the university and I had them sit with my faculty, my students, my administrators, and myself, and we had a conversation about what, Howard is, right. There was an education that was required to let them know what the university was and why it was here. And I think that that has proven to be fruitful.
Dr. Carl Person:Excellent. That's a very, uh, uh, I was pleased to hear your conversation about the whole position of a diversity and inclusion officer. That's a, that's an interesting point you made. Um, but that leads me really to my next question. So what have been your greatest opportunities and challenges in advancing your efforts on your campus?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah, well, you know, clearly I think the opportunity of gender, the opportunity around where our blind spots may be because we're predominantly African-American right. Um, or LGBTQ positions and that community and trying to lift up that community. I, so, so they had different ways to look at it. Uh, we're working right now on a relationship with Gallaudet for instance and where I'd like my freshmen students in their freshman experience class to have to interact with Gallaudet students. That's a different type of discrimination and disability, but I think it could be powerful, uh, for them to learn from students who are deaf and, and, uh, I unable to communicate and the way that we communicate, but live in a broader society that doesn't accommodate them. Well, I think it would be great for my students who may be marginalized because of their color, their skin and ethnicity, to hear that, you know, how do these young people navigate the classroom? How do they navigate jobs, you know, et cetera. And I think that that did bring a different sensitization to the experience of the Howard student. And so I think that as a big opportunity for us to look at differently, marginalized communities, and really give our students a b road experience. And I would say in terms of challenge, the challenge I have is the challenge of the broader society is facing today. And what d oes that challenge? The challenge that the b roader society is facing to be quite honest is the challenge of, u h, culture and c ulture. U h, quite frankly, is simply tolerated behavior. And over the past four years, we've tolerated the, I w ould, I w ould call the dehumanizing of people. Right? We've tolerated getting on social media and saying whatever you want about somebody else. We've tolerated calling people names, we've tolerated, disrespecting, you know, the office, you don't expect behavior of a certain kind and certain officers. And unfortunately our universities are not immune to that. And I think that whether people l ike the b ehavior or not, we've normalized it. And I think that that is a big challenge, for us b ringing forward to, to reverse that trend.
Dr. Carl Person:Thank you for that response. I do have a follow-up, this is more of a, um, just to get your insights on what Howard and what you're doing beyond your campus. And this really relates to, I've noticed that you have received some really nice gifts, uh, over the last year. And I'll just highlight a couple of those, uh, the one you received from a gift to open a women's center. And you've also received a gift for ethical leadership and racial justice initiative, and you've received a gift for a nonprofit leadership program, but I think on top of all of that is a gift you receive from MacKinzie Scott. Just talk a little bit about how those gifts will be used to help broaden this whole discussion about, uh, diversity and inclusion.
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Uh, so, and like I said, um, you know, my, my approach is always, let's make sure that we're doing the things we need to do and women gender issues, um, it's something we needed to elevate on our campus. And so that sense, it's critical that Jarpa Dawuni who is, uh, um, and a faculty member in political science has really led that charge. I've been engaging and interacting with her over the course of a few years. I, I recognize her commitment and, uh, where we would go. And so, uh, we were really aggressive about fundraising to kind of, to help support that. And so that, that's how that came about with respect to, you know, the other gifts. I think the primary issue with the other gifts is that we've been aggressively trying to tell our story and be consistent about that. Uh, we sent more African-Americans to medical school than anyone else we've trained and graduated more African-American physicians than any other single institution in America. Uh, if you look at Harvard's MBA program, um, over the past 50 years, the number one supplier of African-Americans or black students to their MBA program, uh, was Harvard undergrad, number two, Howard we see you look at STEM PhD. I mean, you go down the line African-American lawyers, I mean, you go down the line. We are very much at the forefront of diversifying a large number of fields. And so we've been out making the argument that it's not just a numbers game, but the quality of the people that we've been putting out has been making the society a better society. And if that is what people are interested in, that they should invest in Howard. And so that has been, our approach has been effective. I think when I first took over the presidency, what I needed to do was to make sure that we were in better fiscal ground, that we were performing better academically. And that our research enterprise was, was trending over activity that we could be proud of. And those things, you know, as, you know, they take time, I don't, you know, universities are more like flotillas as opposed to catamaran, so they don't all have to add sharp angles. It takes a while to round that corner. We've rounded that bend.
Dr. Carl Person:Yeah. One of the ones that I didn't mention was your recent award from Amazon to diversify Hollywood.
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah. So this is part of, um, my workforce development vision. Uh, we went out the very first month I was named president. I went out to Silicon Valley and met with several companies and pitched the fact that if they were going to complain about the lack of, uh, the ability to code in the African American student, and they should take a responsibility to help us improve that skillset. And so my, um, my, my proposal was why don't I send my students out to you, embed them in your culture, have the Google engineers and the Howard faculty co-teach because I also want my faculty to be better. And, uh, let's, let's see what happens. And, uh, you know, Google took me up on that, um, proposal and it did that. And now, uh, we, we have students that place, uh, not just at Google, but throughout Silicon Valley at a greater propensity, we've since spread that from Howard west was to the other eight HCBUs and the Hispanic serving institutions. And so with Howard Entertainment, the idea was, I want to see, uh, students green-lighting films when they graduate. Of course, I want to see African-Americans in the C-suite. I want to see them in front of camera and behind the camera. And so we've sent students out from our law school, business, communications, and finance, uh, to this program at Amazon studio. By again, they being co-taught by professionals, practitioners in those different fields and our faculty, and, uh, are in second iteration and it's, it's going fantastic. Um, you know, we ultimately, as part of our Howard Entertainment, uh, you know, vision is to ultimately be able to have a production company as it would to make until our own stories. And I think that, that, um, you know, would, would be a great combination of, of this vision.
Dr. Carl Person:Excellent. So that's gone to the next question. How can the lessons learned from 2020, you know, the pandemic BLM, the elections, et cetera, advanced your thoughts about diversity, equity and inclusion, and how are they, or can those lessons be applied to Howard?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:You know, I think, uh, the first lesson that I hope we learn, I think is a very simple lesson. That is one that I think we knew all along. And that is that, uh, the value in each of us is not measured by how well, the color of our skin, our station, or position in life. But it's as said by several people born before us, what must be important as the content of our character and the fact that we maximize our ability to love each other and to see the humanity in each other. And I think that that is still the basic lesson. It doesn't matter where we are in society. It doesn't matter how technologically advanced we become that's still is the fundamental lesson of our human existence. And now that we are here, I think sometimes you need a reeducation as it were repetition is the key to learning. I think people say, and sometimes you need to, to have major, um, major issues, accrue for us to be reminded of what we should be focusing on. And hopefully that's what will come out of this, that we will get back, uh, to doing the work of, of lifting up each other.
Dr. Carl Person:That's so key, especially in the environment that we've been dealing with here in this country, we have to uplift one another. So finally, what do you hope that the impact is upon your students from your institution's efforts on diversity, equity and inclusion?
Dr. Wayne Frederick:Yeah. I hope that the impact would be that, uh, they continue to do what they've been doing. I think the silver lining here is always going to our students, um, almost to the student service and what we say to students as you come here to get a degree, you come here to get an education. And the way that education works is that you then go out into the society and you change the society by providing service based on the knowledge. And the truth you've acquired here. Right? And so it's about getting an education as opposed to a degree. So with that in mind, what I hope is that all the students who we see in the issues of diversity and inclusion, et cetera, that they ultimately would see the humanity, uh, in that, in those lessons. And they ultimately would see that the biggest tool that they have to go out and apply with their knowledge is love love for each other and love for seeing a more complete society. And I think if they continue to do that as they have been, um, I do think, uh, that we can be very optimistic about what our higher education institutions in general are going to do to change the society.
Dr. Carl Person:Well, we truly need more love. And, uh, and I thank you for being one of those change agents and Howar University truly is, um, producing students who, who change the world. And we see one in our new Vice- President that is such a wonderful thing to see. Well, Dr. Frederick, I truly do want to thank you for joining me this afternoon, and I truly appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts on race, diversity and inclusion and how your role as president and how your campus, uh, are addressing those issues. So thank you very much and to our listeners, thank you for joining us. If you want the Commission to highlight the efforts of your institution in a future podcast, then please visit M S C H e.org/pillars of change to submit your suggestion on behalf of the Middle States Commission on Higher Education and our guest, Dr. Wayne Frederick I'm Dr. Carl Person saying, thank you. And please have a great day.
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