Attract Your Dream Clients By Using Intentional Branding with Hayley Boso

Make your followers, viewers, and visitors fall in love with your brand! Today's conversation is with Hayley Boso, a fellow graphic designer and color psychology enthusiast. 🎨 We talk all about how you can attract your dream clients and thrive in your business by focusing on your branding's visual language. 😍

We also:
📈 Share the correlation between colors and business success 📈
🔠 Go in depth on the power of typography
👩‍💻 Reflect on our unique journeys of graphic design

You may not even realize how much design is influencing your decisions and making you feel a certain way. So if you want to make your branding work in your favor, I'd love for you to listen along.

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Connect with Hayley:
@hayleydesigns.jpg
www.hayleyboso.com

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I'd love to connect with you:
Instagram: instagram.com/eclecticdesigns.co
TikTok: tiktok.com/@eclecticdesigns.co
Pinterest: pinterest.com/eclecticdesignsco

Episode Music: WatR
Special thanks to my VA, Andrea: thevirtualalchemist.com

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Transcript

Kailee [00:00:04]:

Welcome to Branded and booked, your space to come into alignment with yourself and business. I'm your host, Kaylee and I'm your magical brand and website designer. Here you will find yourself being inspired, educated and connecting with others from around the world who are following their dreams and defining their idea of success along the way.

Kailee [00:00:31]:

Happy Tuesday and welcome back to another episode of Branded and Booked. I'm so happy you're here this week and I hope you had a wonderful weekend on 1111, especially under the new Moon. I'm recording this early, but I spent the weekend going to EDC Orlando. I'm a huge dubstep techno girl and so this is the first time I'm experiencing EDC. I used to go to decadence, which is a really huge event in Denver, Colorado on New Year's so I am ecstatic. I'm just doing one day because my little body is no longer in its young 20s. I'm in my late twenty? S and definitely can't dance and do these all weekend events like I used to, but I cannot wait. I enjoy dressing up and just being out, listening to the music and being around the energy of those crowds.

Kailee [00:01:21]:

So can't wait to update you on how that went. Today's episode, I have another graphic designer on which I'm so excited for. It was my goal to bring on more designers onto branded and booked and just a little sneak peek. We are officially going to have a co host for weekly episodes. It has finally come to where I can push out episodes every week for you every Tuesday and I am going to have a co host who is also an incredible designer coming to branded and booked come December. So I'm really excited for that. I think this episode is a great intro to what it's like to have another designer on the show and if you're not over it yet, I am always telling my story, getting little tidbits here and there and I'm bringing on guests to the show that sometimes I haven't met or haven't sat down to have a whole conversation with yet. A lot of them I meet on social media.

Kailee [00:02:20]:

Thank you to the power of social media and I don't know a whole lot about them and they don't know a whole lot about me other than just social media posts and sometimes chatting in the DMs. So today I'm talking to another graphic designer who I met and I cannot wait to bring her on. So I would love to introduce you to Haley.

Hayley [00:02:41]:

It's so weird. Like anytime someone is like, introduce yourself. My mind is just like, who am I? What do I do? But my name is Haley Boso. I am Haleydesigns JPG on Instagram. And I'm a graphic designer, currently an in house designer for an R One university.

Kailee [00:03:03]:

And how did you get into the world of graphic design? I love talking about this. And then I'll share my story, too.

Hayley [00:03:09]:

Yeah, I'd love to hear yours, but mine, honestly, I picked design kind of as a last resort because I started college as a journalism major. I always liked art and stuff, but I also really loved writing. And it wasn't until I got into my first big journalism class that I realized very quickly, this is not for me. We had to interview people, and I was like, absolutely not. I cannot just go up to random people and ask them these questions. So, of course, once I realized that I had noped out really fast, but I had to pick another major, and I was just poring over the majors that were listed, and I was like, graphic design sounds cool. I can do art. And my parents, they're kind of old school, so they were both skeptical, like, art doesn't pay the bills.

Hayley [00:04:04]:

But I was like, this is really the only thing that's appealing. And I went for it and I ended up liking it. And not to sound like an egomaniac, but I ended up taking to it really easily and being pretty good at it, and it all just kind of worked out.

Kailee [00:04:22]:

I think it can say so much when a graphic designer can have confidence and be like, yeah, I'm pretty good at what I do because I think that's what you have to be good at. Graphic design, you have to be able to know the difference between art and graphic design. You have to know the difference between a painting and typography. Which, by the way, I'm so excited to talk to you about typography today because that was single handedly the hardest topic for me to get a grasp on. But one just thank you so much for being on. We met on Instagram. I always like to say I slide into people's DMs all the time on Instagram, so you're one of those people. So thank you.

Kailee [00:05:02]:

I can't remember exactly how we got connected. Maybe it was through another designer, but through a marketing summit. Yeah, that would make sense. And I love to reach out to other designers that I'm feeling inspired by, and your work has definitely inspired me, and I love seeing your content. And the more I've gotten to know you, I'm like, oh, my gosh, we have so much in common. So thank you for being on. I was originally going to school for Architectural Engineering, which is funny, but my parents also were like, you're smart. Don't let that go to waste.

Kailee [00:05:37]:

Why do you want to be an artist? I always told them I always dreamed when I was younger, living in New York and, like, a little tiny loft, being a starving artist with a bunch of dogs, that was, like, how I envisioned my future. And then I went up to college at the University of Wyoming, and I would hang out with all the art kids in the art department, and a friend of mine that I met in math class, actually, I started hanging out with her a lot, and her brother was a graphic designer, and he was about to graduate, and he was interning for the University of Wyoming. And that's how I was like, wait a minute. You design all the pamphlets for the school? And he's like, yeah. And I work on the website, and I do this. I was like, that is so cool. And I had done yearbook in high school, so I knew about layout design. I really enjoyed it.

Kailee [00:06:37]:

I obsessed over yearbook. I was the editor my senior year, and so I was taking home those giant pieces of paper, and I was handwriting edits, which is funny to think about, because that wasn't too long ago. That was about ten years ago, and only ten years ago, I was handwriting edits out. So Adobe has come a long way, as we know. But I made friends with him, and I ended up actually getting really sick, and I had to take a year off of life. And during that time, I got an invitation to the Art Institute of Colorado, and a huge part of my recovery was painting. So I was doing a lot of painting. I spent a lot of time by myself, just in my room, because I couldn't do much else.

Kailee [00:07:25]:

And so art just was really calling to me. And I went to the Art Institute with my mom, and I thought I was going to go for photography, because I was like, you know, I'm so good at photography. Maybe I'll do that the rest of my life. I was inspired by one of our guests, actually, on the show. She was a high school teacher, but then she ended up being a photographer, and she was able to quit being a teacher to be a full time photographer. So I was very inspired by her growing up and went to the school. And then I was looking, again, kind of the same story as yours. I was looking at the programs, and I go, man, why am I going to pay to do photography when I can kind of teach myself that? And then graphic design kind of came into play.

Kailee [00:08:12]:

And I recalled the Times that I'd run into graphic design and I was like, man, I think this would be really cool. So that's how I got started. And I went to college and got my bachelor's and went into the corporate world and then was let go during 2020. And that's when I went all in on running my business. So I ran my business full time for about two years until last year, I decided to get a part time corporate. I say quote unquote corporate because they are a small business still. So I started working at the small business, and that's my story in a nutshell. There's so much in between, but that's kind of how I came into graphic design.

Hayley [00:08:51]:

Your drinking is so much more like. I don't know how to say it. There's just so many more levels to it. It's really interesting that you met someone that was a graphic designer and it kind of, like, lit that fire, but it took a lot of other. Your journey took a lot of other twists and turns along the way. It's really interesting that you went to the University of Wyoming, though, because Wyoming is literally one of my favorite places ever. When you said that, I was like, yeah, there's something about it. I don't.

Hayley [00:09:25]:

I have been out there twice, and my soul just feels, like, completely at, like, I don't want to get too woo woo about it, but it just feels like I lived there in a past life or something. And it's a feeling that I get there that I have not gotten anywhere else. Like, not even in West Virginia, where I've lived my entire life.

Kailee [00:09:47]:

Where in Wyoming did you go visit?

Hayley [00:09:50]:

So I've been to Yellowstone, Jackson Hole and Cody, Wyoming. I actually went to my first rodeo in Cody, Wyoming. But most of the time around, like, the Yellowstone and Jackson Hole area.

Kailee [00:10:05]:

Yeah, Wyoming. It's funny you say that you felt really at peace because I had the opposite experience.

Hayley [00:10:12]:

You're like, absolutely not.

Kailee [00:10:14]:

Oh, my God. I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, and I lived in the suburbs, which means that I was only 30 minutes from the city at all times. And I am definitely a city girl. Like, through and through where we live now, Orlando, it's not as city heavy, but it is more tropical. We still kind of live in the suburbs, but, yeah, when I went up to Wyoming, I was in for a shock. All the people wanted to do up there was to go swing dancing, and I can't dance at all. I have, like, two left feet. And so when I was up there, I felt so out of not, I don't listen to country music really at all, which is funny because my family is primarily from Kansas and they all grew up, they had a family farm and it was a very country type of living and I just have always been more on the city side.

Kailee [00:11:13]:

So I have a lot of country family. But yeah, Wyoming was not it. But the places you visit is beautiful. I've been to Yellowstone during the winter, so I want to go back in the summer. But yeah, that's.

Hayley [00:11:28]:

Only, that's really the only reason. Well, one of the only reasons I don't actually live there is because I am more of a city person too. And I don't think that I would be happy with how spread out it is like living there full time. But it's also, when I looked for design jobs there, there were very few and they also did not pay very well. And Jackson Hole itself is so expensive, like the real estate and stuff, because of course I've looked on Zillow a lot, but it's just not realistic. But maybe one day, like if I win the lottery or something, I can buy a house and retire there.

Kailee [00:12:05]:

I know. It's so interesting just how different that state is. I went to school in Laramie and I'm not going to lie, though, that campus, and that's what won me over because I went and visited the school during the summer and the campus was gorgeous during the summer, like so green and open and beautiful. And then I got up there in the winter and then I was like, this is awful.

Hayley [00:12:35]:

So it's worse than Denver.

Kailee [00:12:37]:

Oh, my God. Yeah, because the way the buildings were set up, the wind would come through and it would kind of like wrap its way throughout the buildings. It got so cold up there that they have tunnels for us to get from the dorm rooms to the cafeteria and stuff like that because it would get so cold. They would send out student emails being like, hey, wear goggles to class today.

Hayley [00:13:04]:

Because it's freezing outside.

Kailee [00:13:08]:

And I don't like the cold. I don't like the cold at all. So now that I live in thriving, I didn't even like the winters in Denver. But oh my God, that Wyoming, and I'm sure that's not the coldest. I'm sure there's some other states up in the northeast or northwest that gets really bone chilling cold, but Wyoming was the coldest I ever experienced.

Hayley [00:13:34]:

Yeah, I think the latest that I've been there is like late August. I think the last time I was there it was in 2018. And my parents had pulled their camping trailer out there and they were there for, like, two weeks. But my brother and I flew out to see them for a long weekend. And when the day after we left, they got their first snow at the end of August, I was like, oh, my. Like, they don't play around.

Kailee [00:14:02]:

You know, I really enjoyed, too, that you brought up that maybe in a past life you were there, because that's how I feel in Florida. Right? Very. We would always vacation out here and it's interesting to see how we feel in different places. I know that you said that you're into astrology, which I am too. So have you ever heard of astrocatography?

Hayley [00:14:24]:

I have, yeah.

Kailee [00:14:26]:

I would be so curious. You should look up where your lines are for Wyoming, and I'm wondering if you have a dominant line going through Wyoming.

Hayley [00:14:37]:

I'll have to look at that one. I know that I have a Jupiter line that goes through New York City, and I think my Saturn line is like off the coast of California, which I think would make sense because the one time we visited there a few years ago, I came back and I just got into all these different hobies. It felt like I came back like.

Kailee [00:15:00]:

A different, oh, I love, yeah, I, before we moved, I looked up our astrocatography and it's so interesting. We both have lines that go through Orlando, Florida, which I was like, when I looked it up, I was like, there's no way. And, yeah, sure enough. And so it's so fascinating to see how astrology can really form where we're living. And I definitely went down the learning hole of that. And I love that you said you came back and kind of took on new hobbies. I'm so curious, what has it been like for you as a designer? Because I get very obsessed with design and I'm still working on life balance. So for you, in your years of expanding, especially as starting to do more freelance now, how have you been implementing balance to continue to have hobbies?

Hayley [00:15:56]:

Yeah, I honestly don't have a great answer for that one because I'm the same. I have ADHD, so I hyper focus like crazy on hobbies. I've always just felt like I only have one at a time. But I think coming back into freelance now, I was so used to kind of protecting my piece around my day job that I'm a lot more sensitive to how I feel whenever I start to get burnout or overwhelmed, even with this lettering challenge I've been doing all month, it's so much fun, but it is a lot of work. And I've thankfully had a slow month at work, so I've been able to work on it more than I would have otherwise. But I do just have to force myself to kind of back off and do something else. Take care of things around the house or even rest and play video games. Because now that, I just feel like I burn out easier now that I'm older.

Hayley [00:16:58]:

But I also way pushed myself too hard in my early twenty s and I was going straight from working at the marketing agency that I was in, coming home and freelancing, doing freelance work all night and doing that like multiple nights a week. And it was just like, go, go. I think it's really hard, especially working as a designer and seeing how important it is to kind of have an established personal brand. It feels like we are supposed to work all the time. And that was something that kind of kept me out of freelance for a few years because I didn't necessarily want to work like 60, 70 hours a week.

Kailee [00:17:39]:

Yeah, I resonate with that so much. And it's something I still don't have the answer to either. Moving down to Florida has probably been the first time I've had more time. And it's not just because of, like, I'm definitely someone who. I'm an extrovert, so working at home is challenging for me because I'm alone all the time. And then when Zach gets know he's already had a whole day out and socializing and being at work, so when he gets home, I can't constantly feed off of him for that interaction because he's like, I need to chill. So I learned that back at home I was working. Same thing, working all the time, but also going and doing things.

Kailee [00:18:25]:

And my balance was so far off. I would go do things and then I would sacrifice my sleep. So sleep was something I've always sacrificed since my early 20s as well. And coming down to Florida is the first time I've been able to kind of dabble in hobbies again because I have less time with friends and family, which I'm bummed about. But at the same time, it is nice to have time to read and play video games and paint or color, do, just do something, even do nothing, binge a TV show. So it's nice to have a little bit of that. I'm also definitely back in the I'm working all morning, I get off of my part time job and then I'm working all night. So I'm probably working twelve to 15 hours a day right now.

Kailee [00:19:14]:

And it's for sure. A challenge.

Hayley [00:19:18]:

Yeah. I think now that when I was listening to just what you said and kind of thinking about it more, I feel like whenever COVID started, it actually helped me figure out a balance more because when I was working an office full, so I didn't realize what this was at the time, but I was so overstimulated by the time I would get home at the end of the day, on Thursdays and Fridays, I would just be such a turd to my husband and just snap over the dumbest things, but be completely wiped out because I was also going out and doing trivia with my work buddies or my friends outside of work. And my husband and I, we used to go out a lot, and COVID obviously forced, stopped a lot of those things. But once people started going to do those things again, I think I just kind of aged out of it a little bit, and I didn't necessarily want to do those, so I just, by nature, had more time to dedicate to things that I actually wanted to do as well.

Kailee [00:20:21]:

Yeah, it feels like a never ending right of trying to find balance and be able to have just. I don't know if it's self control or what, but it's hard when we're creatives and we love what we do, right?

Hayley [00:20:38]:

It is. Yeah. It can feel like you're not working even if you're doing fun design stuff on the side. That was something my therapist has kind of been telling me over the last few months. It's great that you're branching out, doing all these things, but remember, you're using the same parts of your brain that you do for your day job. So just put in some time to rest and put the iPad down, put the computer away, and it's okay to just not do anything sometimes. Yeah, I know.

Kailee [00:21:11]:

That's where I'm at. I took two weeks off because I was traveling for work, and then I had family come down, and so I took two weeks off of my own client stuff. But now it's so hard when you also freelance on top of other work because you get back and you're like, now I'm so far behind, so it makes you almost not want to take any time off. So I'm still struggling with that, too. And when it comes to hobbies, though, something that you said is you're kind of learning procreate in this process of doing the typography challenge. So I'm so curious. On top of trying to find balance and have hobies, how do you make time to enhance your graphic design skills and learn, because that's something I've definitely been thinking about. There's so much stuff coming out with Adobe and AI and new programs for designers.

Kailee [00:22:07]:

When do you find time to learn and elevate your design skills?

Hayley [00:22:14]:

It's something that I've just tried to integrate into my downtime. Whenever I'm working too, I like to listen to podcasts or watch YouTube videos or something while I'm working. I've just always been a multitasker like that. So I've started adding design related things into that because for the longest time I didn't. And once I started getting back on the job market, I realized how much my skill set had not grown. It's not like I was a worst designer, but I created my Instagram account and I just noticed all these cool things that everyone's doing now. And that was honestly the kick in the butt that I really needed to start learning these things again. And it was stuff that I'd always wanted to learn, but I just didn't dedicate the time to it or I wasn't perfect at it immediately.

Hayley [00:23:10]:

So I couldn't do that. But it's literally just me trying to build it into my day. Like I like to scroll on my design Instagram while I'm working or like if I'm just taking a break rather than any of my other accounts because I just make a new account for everything because I like everything super segmented, but it's cool to just pick stuff up that way. And I did attend Adobe Max as well, which was awesome and not like in person virtually. But I did learn a lot from all the sessions that I watched. And it was just really cool to kind of get back into that mindset that I'd kind of neglected for so long.

Kailee [00:23:51]:

I agree with you. I watched two recordings of them for Adobe Max on YouTube of just them introducing all the things that are new with what we can do as designers and creatives. And I do think I miss that aspect. I miss school all the time because you're always around other creatives, you're always getting feedback and you're fueled by that. And it's a little bit hard once you get kind of far out from school and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I haven't been practicing this essential. And I think taking the time to learn is what helps set you apart. Rather, you're trying to get a corporate job or freelance. You have to constantly be trying to elevate your skills.

Hayley [00:24:36]:

You really do. I feel like unfortunately the design industry can be kind of ageist as well. And I think if you stop trying to improve your skills before you're middle aged or older, I think it just kind of adds to that ageism, unfortunately. But I think watching the Adobe Max stuff and just seeing all the new tools also helps. Like the Photoshop generative fill and all of that. It's not perfect, but it saves me so much time in my work because Photoshop was never my super strong suit anyway. And I just had a thing last week where I flipped a photo on a postcard that I was designing because I needed the blank space on the other side of the page, but I didn't notice that it flipped the shorts type and one of the content editors pointed it out and I was like, oh, shit. But it took me like half an hour to correct it.

Hayley [00:25:36]:

If that versus like an hour or two of just trying to be meticulous and make it perfect.

Kailee [00:25:41]:

Yeah. Oh, I feel that so much. I was just creating some social media posts based off of pictures I took for some products. And in one of the photos I have a person holding out the product, but when we were going to post it on social media, it cut off half of her face. So I just use the auto generate expand so then there's more background and it blows my mind. Have you seen any of the funny videos? This one I saw the other dAy, it was like a Drake cover album, and then they would just expand it and auto generate it just to see what type of silly things that auto generative can come up with.

Hayley [00:26:23]:

Oh my God, I do love that part of AI. Just in general, there are so many covers. Like cover songs, like Plankton from SpongeBob singing metal songs. And he's so good. He sounds so great. But it's just wild. Like, I've seen bad AI logos too. And that's kind of like I see a lot of people talking about like, will AI take our jobs? And then I see a really janky AI logo and it's like, no, not yet.

Hayley [00:26:55]:

We're good for, I'd say a while.

Kailee [00:26:58]:

Yeah. I think it's fun to utilize AI, and I think that's something that watching the Adobe Max really taught me is that AI is not here to take our jobs, but it is here to help us save on time. And the one thing that really stood out where they're like, hey, this is going to save you on time. If I can cut a job into half of the amount of time and have it turn out even better, I'm going to do it because I think as creatives, AI is going to help us free up our work time to allow for more creativity. And that's something I'm really excited for.

Hayley [00:27:37]:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you can finish something in half the time and make it better, you're making more money technically, like per hour, and your client is going to be happier if it's a better job with the assistance of AI than we could do by ourselves.

Kailee [00:27:51]:

Oh, I agree. One thing I wanted to ask you, and I actually didn't send this question over, but I think it's so important. And I have this conversation with a couple of other graphic designers. I have young graphic designers coming to me and asking for advice on how to get jobs or how to freelance and through my own experience, because I can't really talk on the experience of just being freelance. So through my own experience and through yours as well, we both went the route of getting an education and then going into a more corporate esque type of job.

Hayley [00:28:32]:

Right.

Kailee [00:28:33]:

And I want to have the conversation with you of why you think going that route is important. I know. For me, I think going into corporate really expanded my way of thinking. Even though my first couple of jobs were not great experiences, I still learned so much. And so I'd love to hear your aspect of that, especially working for a university. You're still in the education world and how you think it's benefited you as a graphic designer to go that route compared to just jumping straight into freelance.

Hayley [00:29:07]:

I think that working in corporate is really, I think it's one of those things that everybody should do within reason, because you just get exposed to so many different types of people and there can be people that you meet that you just click with immediately and the vibes are there and your actual work friends, but then there's others that you don't really like and you don't mesh with, but you still get the experience of having to work with a person that you normally wouldn't choose to spend time with. And I think that that is really beneficial. Even when you transition to freelance and you're working with clients, not everyone's going to be a breeze and there's going to be difficult times and there's just only so much problem solving that you can learn outside of the workplace in terms of professional issues. But I think that learning from other designers is always, I think that that's a really positive thing because even though we're all using the same tools, we have different backgrounds, we have different aesthetics and different ways of doing things and I think it honestly helps us be more creative and helps us to think a little deeper. If there's someone there that can push back on your design decisions and be like, hey, what about this? Or even if it's like, I don't like this, let's do it differently. Because not all directors are great with giving specific feedback, and that's something I really wish I got more of overall, is just more specific feedback instead of, I don't like it, but it still causes you to sit with your design and kind of go back and think like, okay, they don'T like this. What can I do differently? How can I improve this? And I think going through all those different iterations and stuff, like, you just become a stronger professional overall.

Kailee [00:31:12]:

Yeah, I agree with you. And especially the aspect of learning how to work with different personality types. I have had corporate and clients, and my past seven, eight years of experience of working, I have learned so much about how to be a designer in the sense of taking others feedback. There has been so many times that I've had to redesign something or design something that I don't personally love, but they're obsessed with it. And I think being able to know the balance, but also know the times to push back. So something I've been challenging myself as a designer this past year is to speak up when I don't agree with something.

Hayley [00:32:01]:

Right.

Kailee [00:32:01]:

And that has been so hard. I saw that from another designer. She said being a good designer means that you're also telling people no sometimes and arguing the case of why you think so. And that's been really scary for me to implement this year and tell some of my clients, like, actually, I'm not going to make that change. And I don't agree. And here's why. I'm working on a really huge packaging design project right now. Like, major, they have multiple products, multiple lines, and I've had to push back a couple of times, and that's been scary.

Kailee [00:32:35]:

But it's not that I do like, no, you're wrong. It's learning how to communicate and saying, like, hey, I understand why you're thinking this, but this is actually why I designed it this way. And here's why I think we should keep it this way. What do you think? And just leaving the table open for that conversation has been so beneficial, too. And I never would have been able to do that if I wouldn't have been in corporate settings on teams.

Hayley [00:33:03]:

Yeah, I think that it's really important to be able to do that because, let's be honest, there are times where we design something and there's not some big brain reason why we did what we did. It's just, I like it. But other times it is good to articulate those things to people and kind of show your expertise because there are tons of people that will hire a designer and they think that the job is easy and it's like, well, just click a few buttons. And I think taking the time to articulate your decisions, it really shows your worth. But there are people that will just want their way no matter what, even if you do present the best argument in the world. And I think it's better to try and stick up for yourself like that rather than just taking it on the chin and being like, okay, whatever, I'm not even going to try because I've done it both ways and just taking the L and going through the motions, you just end up angry because you aren't expressing yourself and you're just like, fine, I'm just going to get this shit done and get it over with. Just simmering over it.

Kailee [00:34:13]:

Yeah, I for sure have my days where I am angry. And again, I'm such a perfectionist that if something isn't the way that I intended it to be, it throws me off. And so I'm learning how to work with myself as a designer again. Being humbled, knowing when the right situation to say something and when not to is really coming into effect for me. I want to transition a little bit, and I have been so inspired by your typography challenge, as well as just seeing what you have done with typography over the past month with your content. And typography was something that I struggled with the most when I was in school as well as out of school. And now when I reflect, I'm like, wow, baby. Designer Kaylee really was struggle busting when it came to her typography skills.

Kailee [00:35:11]:

So I want to ask you about typography and kind of just nerd out on it a little bit about why you love it and also how typography is so important for branding in general.

Hayley [00:35:26]:

I love that we're going to talk about this honestly. My love for typography started back in school as well. I had an advanced typography class and I had this professor, and he was intent. He pushed all of his students super hard. He was very particUlar, had exacting standards. But it was so good to have kind of like that first experience with someone pushing back on you so much. But through all of that and just having a course like a whole semester with just typography and having projects where we had to only use type, no images or anything, and figure out how to convey emotion and really set the tone on a piece with only type and color. It really causes you to think a lot more deeply about it than you might otherwise.

Hayley [00:36:26]:

But type is just like, oh my God, I'm swinning right now, but it is something like, I didn't expect that to be the part of design that I really fell in love with, but I think it tickles the part of my brain that loves to make things look perfect and symmetrical. And the number of typefaces that are out there online are just endless. So there's always something new you can try, and you could even use the same couple typefaces and the same color palette and work them differently and create so many different results with even just limited options. But it's something that I think that is kind of under, I wouldn't say underrated or underutilized, but I feel like people put a lot of emphasis on iconography and creating the perfect logo. And of course those are important, but it's also, if you don't have the right type to go with the imagery, it kind of gets into that, I guess, the uncanny valley where it's like it's almost, that it's just not quite, there's something off about it, right.

Kailee [00:37:45]:

Something that I am really excited for those of you listening to just note on that, is that hiring a graphic designer or a brand designer, this is what helps set your business and your branding apart, is you're working with people who are looking into the psychology of your fonts and colors. And again, your typography can really make or break it, and it's so subconscious. I'll never forget in college our professor put up some posters and he would say, well, look at this one and tell me if you love it or you don't. And the ones that we didn't love were the ones that didn't have strong typography, but we couldn't pinpoint it yet. And then the moment we learned about typography and fonts and how they work together in harmony, that's when it's kind of like that light bulb goes off. And now, of course, as a graphic designer, I walk around everywhere and I'm like, oh, that typography is a little rough. You know what I mean? So it's just so important, and this is why graphic designers like us exist, is to help you really nail those down. Because if you're just pulling together a bunch of random thoughts on canva that could really be hurting your business, but it's so subconscious that you might not even know, right?

Hayley [00:39:07]:

Absolutely. It is so important to kind of know that psychology behind both color and type. But I see so many businesses around town that it's like the type just doesn't match what their industry is. Or you walk past the sign and it's like, oh God, that kerning is the worst. But that's a surefire way to shoot your business in the foot is to not have a designer making those choices with intention behind it rather than just, oh, this looks cool, I like this. And just using it on canva or whatever to do it yourself. Obviously people who have low budgets, that's what canva is a great resource for. But once you get to the point where you can afford a designer, it's only going to improve your business in the long term.

Kailee [00:40:03]:

I'm so happy you brought that up because I completely agree. If you're first starting out, this is something I've been talking about a lot more on my social media platforms of when to invest in a brand. And if you're brand new, I probably wouldn't suggest it because you're going to evolve. And I do think utilizing canva is a great place to start. But yeah, your brand, a lot of the time will help with your business growth and especially your income. And I think that's so important to talk about. Of course, us designers want it to look good, but as brand designers, we're helping you make more money because we're helping your business look good and also subconsciously communicate with your dream clients. So that's something that I forget to talk about all the time as a graphic designer, of how much your brand can affect your income as well.

Hayley [00:40:56]:

It really can. I think it's important if someone is skeptical about whether a designer is worth the investment, think about all of the products that you might have in your home, even just like in your kitchen or your fridge, your favorite orange juice, or this very specific bag of chips. There's a thing about the appearance that you like, and you buy the same bag of chips every time because the label always looks the same and the packaging is the same. That's branding, brand consistency, and intentional choices like that are what keep people coming back. And if you change the look of something every few months, or you're using 800 different fonts on something, it's going to look a hot mess, but it's going to make people uncomfortable and they're not going to want to buy the product, it's important.

Kailee [00:41:56]:

Yes, well, and also the intentional branding. This was so wild to me. Somebody had told me I was out with a designer, I think at lunch when I was in college, and he was explaining to me how the branding of restaurants makes such a huge impact on the way people interact with them. So we were at a Chipotle and he was like, think about how they brand in here. All the design within Chipotle is very sharp edged and they use materials that aren't comforting because they want people in and out of their restaurant as soon as possible. And it's also the music that a restaurant plays. So I'm going to use Olive Garden as an example because Olive Garden always uses classical music, which I think is so funny because Olive Garden is still a chain restaurant, but they still hold themselves as like an elegant, high end chain restaurant. And it's just those simple branding things of like, playing softer music, having softer lights in the restaurant, the way their menu looks.

Kailee [00:43:06]:

All of these things convey whether or not somebody is going to stay for a long time or they're going to get in and out as quick as possible. And that blew my mind. And just how much our branding, from both visual and background strategy completely can change the course of your business because it's invoking feelings for people.

Hayley [00:43:32]:

Absolutely everything is a choice, every single, like, I really didn't put that together about Chipotle until you just said that. But now I'm like, because I'm absolutely a to go girly anyway. I don't like to sit in restaurants that much, but I'm like, yeah, thinking about, I was just there a couple of nights ago, like, the metal tables, the really unforgiving chairs, they're so uncomfortable. Makes total sense. But it also doesn't look out of place with their branding at all. Even though it feels, I guess, a little bit industrial, the rest of their branding doesn't. It kind of has that natural, I guess it's kind of like home cooked food, like healthy fast food. Their whole brand has that feeling.

Hayley [00:44:28]:

But the unforgiving chairs and the tables fit right in with that.

Kailee [00:44:33]:

Yeah, it's insane to think about. And I'm just so excited and also grateful to have other graphic designers on the show to talk about these things because I think for myself, it's sometimes hard to explain to people about how much branding does play an impact. And I think unless we're having these conversations and talking about it on the way, it's affecting our everyday life. That's when kind of those light bulbs and those aha moments really start to come to the table.

Hayley [00:45:04]:

Absolutely. Yeah. Even just talking to my husband about something, if I'm like, oh, God, this is so bad, whether it's like a note from one of my directors or a really bad sign across town, it's like I'm trying to find the words to explain it because he's not a designer, but it hits different whenever we can talk to other designers about it. But as far as food and branding goes, think of McDonald's, the red and the yellow. Those colors are so intentional because they make people hungry and they make people want to eat there. Just like, why so many healthcare systems and social media platforms use blue. Because it's trustworthy and calming.

Kailee [00:45:53]:

Yeah. Colors are my jam. I have always been obsessed with color and color psychology. I also think it's low key, a superpower to be a creative that can see multiple colors on the color spectrum. So that's something that I've really obsessed over. Is just how much colors can play a role in your branding.

Hayley [00:46:15]:

Absolutely. It's just another part of, I don't know, all of the branding choices. It's everything it can make or break. But color is something that is just. I feel like I'm just repeating myself, but it's just so crucial.

Kailee [00:46:36]:

And all of those elements living together in harmony. Like you were saying earlier, you could have the same set of fonts, but you change the colors and it can completely change the entire feel of it. So just having branding that's very intentional can be so powerful and moving for your business.

Hayley [00:46:53]:

Yeah. And there are ways that you can kind of push back against, I guess, the stereotypical uses. There are ways to make a really masculine, heavy typeface, like Draplin Design Co's first font, like super Thick and blocky and masculine. There's ways to kind of add a more androgynous or feminine lean to it, but it's also something like you have to be so careful with because it can get kitschy and tacky so fast.

Kailee [00:47:28]:

Yeah, it's so wild. Just those little bit of hues and saturations that can completely change a design.

Hayley [00:47:37]:

And then it's like, he's off, but I don't know what.

Kailee [00:47:40]:

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, I know that you and I could sit here and talk about branding literally all day, but I first just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time to come on and talk about these things with me and just how excited I was to meet you officially off of Instagram. But I would love because I know you're taking on freelance clients. I would love for you to let our listeners know where they can connect with you and also work with you.

Hayley [00:48:09]:

Course. I am so glad that you invited me on here. This was so fun. The time just flew by. I know, but you guys can find me on Instagram at Haleydesigns. Jpg. That's H-A-Y-L-E-Y designs. J-P-G.

Hayley [00:48:27]:

And my website is haleyboso.com, so. H-A-Y-L-E-Y-B-O-S-O. My name gets misspelled a lot, so that's habit. But that's okay. If you're interested in working with me, you can shoot me a DM on Instagram. But it would honestly be faster to just fill out the contact form on my website because that's where I would direct you to anyway.

Kailee [00:48:53]:

Well, thank you so much. I'm going to have all that linked in the show notes. You guys should definitely give her a follow. And if you're looking to elevate your brand, she is also a wonderful brand designer to work with. And Haley, thank you so much.

Hayley [00:49:08]:

Thank you.

Kailee [00:49:17]:

Thank you so much for being here. This wouldn't be possible without you listening. And special thanks to my vA, Andrea. You can learn more about her at the virtualalchemist.com and I would love for.

Kailee [00:49:32]:

You to join my eclectic universe.

Kailee [00:49:34]:

You can work with me and follow along for more helpful tips on how to grow your business. Behind the scenes footage and magical brand and website design inspiration over at EclecticDesigns Co. I'll talk to you sooner.