How do you divine?

HOME| Navigating Faith, Family, and Self-Discovery with Ben Jeanty

• How do you divine? • Season 3 • Episode 5

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 In this episode, we welcome Ben Jeanty, the Founder and Host of the 'I Came Home to Heal' podcast. Ben shares his journey of growing up in a conservative Caribbean Christian family and his challenges in searching for his identity and sense of home.  I share my experience of seeking peace and solitude from a young age, rather than feeling at home in different spaces. We discuss the importance of finding a personal sanctuary, the danger of using external structures to hide, and the critical need for balance in loving and serving others without compromising personal well-being. Join us as we explore the meaning of home, the impact of church culture on mental health, and the importance of creating a safe space for healing and growth.


Thank you for listening and for always adding new dimensions to your definitions. Keep growing, keep exploring, and keep defining life on your terms.🌐 Explore the new website www.howdoyoudivine.com
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Meet our Founder & Host 🎙️
Sanika is a storyteller, communicator, and creator passionate about exploring self-discovery, culture, and the power of words. With a background in technology and marketing communications; she has built a platform dedicated to authentic conversations that inspire growth, challenge perspectives, and amplify voices.

As the host of How Do You Divine?, she invites listeners to redefine meaning, embrace transformation, and navigate life—one word at a time. Her mission? To create space for reflection, empowerment, and deeper connections through storytelling.



Speaker:

Hi everyone, and welcome back to this episode of How Do You Divine? And on this episode, we will explore how we have come to the define home and what does home look like to you. I like to welcome Ben. Founder and host of the I came home Te Heal podcast. Ben, thank you for being here. Thanks. This is amazing and I'm so glad to have you here because when I heard the name of your podcast, it just, it sinks deep. It sinks really, really deep. I came home to heal. So tell me about early days of how you define what was home. Before you came to heal.

Speaker 2:

Whoa. Yeah. So first, thank you for having me again. Uh, this was amazing. Um, glad to be here. Um, home before I did the work, looked like, um, my little space, my room in, uh, Mount Cle jersey, my childhood home. Um, that was like my sanctuary. That was like the place that I withdrew to when I. Felt overwhelmed or excited or nervous or anxious like that was home.

Speaker:

Oh yeah, your room. Well, sounds like you're fortunate enough to be a child that had his own room. So let's start there. The privileges, so you know what I mean? It is so great. So tell me about your early days. Where are you from? Tell me how he came to know Ben.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so Ben is a. Haitian kid. Born and raised in Northern New Jersey. Um, yeah, super conservative, super Caribbean Christian family.

Speaker 3:

Whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, uh. Haiti. Well, in Creole, we like to call, we, we have this thing called le. It's basically you're either at home, you're at church, or you're at school. So if I wasn't at home, I was at church, or I was at school. Um, and that's really what like defined my, my childhood.

Speaker:

Nice. So would you say you were one of those kids that was in church all weekend or like, you know, you went to school and Wednesday every day of the week. Every day of the week,

Speaker 2:

yes. Six outta seven days of the week, if not seven. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Speaker:

So would you be cons, so would you consider yourself a pk? Because I always feel like parents that are heavily in the church. You don't necessarily have to be the pastor to have like the PK treatment.

Speaker 2:

That's, that's good. You know, the deep

Speaker:

end and the, the head of the, the choir, you know, everyone has that PK experience. So would you say that you're a pk?

Speaker 2:

Definitely. Nice.'cause my, um, the pastor of my childhood church was my uncle. So like No.

Speaker:

So you technically we were always together.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, right. We're always together, so,

Speaker:

yes. That is nice. So what would you say in those early days, right, I feel like as children,'cause I too, so I, let me first say I too was I, I call it weekend, all weekend. We couldn't do during the week. Yeah. So even so I came to New York when I was four years old. Okay. Right. I originally was born in Jamaica. My mom came here before when we were really young and then brought my brother and I when we were four and decided to migrate here. Um, but my father is one of 11. Very big family. My mother's the oldest of eight, so it was very clear from there on that, you know, our culture and who we are is. And where we come from is part of who we are. Be. So it was every summer back in Jamaica. Yeah. Listen, if school enters in by Friday, you go, I'm on here in Jamaica. Uh, people have look up Freeza being at six 30. Yes. Old. Like it's free. So we was one of those kids that, you know, traveled alone. So we went the steward list the whole time. So every single summer we were back in Chick and I actually started high school in Jamaica as well. Yes, because my, but whole story, but academics is a big deal and I started high school in Jamaica, so I'm very close to, I always say not my culture is who I am. Yeah, yeah. Really is who I am. So. I love that you said that six days out of the week you was in church.'cause I, I didn't get six days outta the week, but my mother's side of the family is Baptist Christian. Okay. My father's seven Day Adventist. Ooh. So when I say I went to church all weekend,

Speaker 3:

I

Speaker:

get it. I went to church all weekend. So from. Friday night when I was with my maternal grandpa, and I'm a grandmother baby. My grandmother's really nurtured and I always say I would not be who I am. Yeah. Am funny enough, Booker name, start with L uh oh. Sister Laura and, and GTE Carly. So. Friday nights I would be with my paternal grandmother. You know it's Seven Day Adventist as the Ong Friday I worship time. Time, yeah. It's worship time, TV off, no books, no nothing. It's worship time. Then we went to church on Saturday, come back. You know, I have a look at Saturday. Lunch. Yeah. After church. Big lunch. Yeah. Ate it on a minute and then I came out for a little bit and then my uncle would come get me breakfast after, go to church with my maternal grandma come Sunday morning. Yes. So it was church all weekend. So I love that. I love that. So would you say, although you guys had three, I love that, that saying, say it again?

Speaker 2:

School, church, la, home.

Speaker:

Nice. I love that. Little try. That's cool. Trifecta. So of the three, where did you most resonate with home?

Speaker 2:

I think church is where I spent, I think, most of my time. Um, and I think because. It's where I saw my friends. It's where I hung out the most with people that I interface with. So yeah, definitely church.

Speaker:

Nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So how having the definition of home changed, right. I think being part of what they say, the, the spirit, like the, the churchy world and the secular world, or how, you know what I mean? I think we grow up, we start going to school, we start to see, you know, people that were raised with different value systems and things like that. And I always say it's not better. It's different. You know what I mean? Because to me. God calls us in very unique ways. And just because I know God, because I had the benefit of being raised in a household that was very intentional about it, doesn't mean that people that didn't have that same level of intentionality don't know God either. You know what I mean? So I. Where would you say, like you said, church was mostly home. Tell me about that home in your early stages from being a young boy to middle school, to high school, and then an adult. Like I'm sure that environment changed in many ways.

Speaker 2:

Definitely, definitely. Yeah. Like I said before, I grew up in a very, very conservative Caribbean Christian family. Um, and so you can, you can only imagine like what that looked like. Yeah. Um, but yeah, we were super Baptist, super conservative. Um, but I saw my, my uncle and his siblings like. Serve and support other people through church. And I learned hospitality. Um, I learned, I, I observed that, but I also like learned it myself. So like that's, that was home to me. Home was like hosting people home, was serving others home was, you know, doing the Lord's work. Um, and I think I've, I still cherish that to this day. Um, I think it'll, it evolved over time, though, like I said, when I was a kid, like that's what I saw. That's what I lived. Um, but I think when I turned like 17, 18, um, I started to realize that I didn't agree with everything that was done in the church. Right. I didn't necessarily, or even before that, like, there was a lot of dissonance that I experienced. Quite honestly. I was like 11, 12, 13, and there was some things that I learned about my childhood that I was like, wait, what is that about? And like, what is this? And who is that? And like, what do you mean? And that doesn't, that's not in alignment with what we say we practice, right? So that dissonance is what I was like, Hmm. I don't think church is where I feel most at home. I'm gonna feel more at home by myself. So I started to retreat even at like 13, 14 to my room and that's where I found the most solitude and sanctuary. Um, so yeah, like I kind of stayed to myself for a long time.

Speaker:

Nice. Would you say that you are a loner? Definitely. Oh, nice. And that's a, that's an interesting take that you went from being like part of such a big community in the church and then you were retreated into being alone. And the, the two things I wanna touch on with that, but before we touch on that, I wanna talk to you about some of those limitations and restrictions and, and trying to find the best word to use when it comes to church culture. Right. I think church culture can be exact. That heavy size says a lot. Um, church culture to me as someone who, like I said, I had the best of both worlds, right? I was in church all weekend and both my grandmother serves. My grandfather served. Like my mother is now deep in church like I have. I understand the organization of church, I understand the community of church, but I also understand the complexity of people, right? I, I know that they're not all one and the same. And sometimes people use church to, to hide and mask. Right. Um, it's easy to hide behind something. Right. But I always say, God, don't dwell and mess. So it's very clear to me when it's not one thing than the other. But how, how was the limitations, I'm just gonna use that word of church. How did that play a part on your. Mental and emotional wellbeing because I, I personally, it made me sharper. I can speak for myself. It made me a lot sharper about not who people said they were, but how they showed up. And, and it in a way taught me how to navigate humans, right? Because you can, you can mean well, but we are all human. You know what I mean? You can mean well, and I think being a part. Of the kingdom of God. Right. And the church gives us this false sense of authority and qualification that I think he people often use based on their objective. Yes. So talk to me about some of those limitations.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So first I'll say that the church has been like, I'm so grateful for my experience, just like you are, you know, growing up in the church, I wouldn't be where I am without it. That foundation is super, super important. Um, I do think though, you know, being a PK and, and, and seeing behind the veil of things, um, there are some, there were some challenges. There were some things that I saw that I, um, that I asked about, um, questions that I had that weren't answered. And I think. As a 11, 12, 13-year-old kid, you don't have the skills that you need

Speaker:

all the verbiage.

Speaker 2:

Right, right. To really articulate yourself or to, to question or to, I think reason with a bit more, um, patience. And I think those challenges, uh, when those questions weren't answered, or quite honestly, people didn't have the skills or didn't have the language themselves, the people that we're submitting ourselves to. Right. Um, be family. They're still just human. Right, right. Right. They didn't have the language, you know? So I think that was a huge limitation. Like if I didn't feel safe at church where like we're talking about meeting God and like submitting and surrendering ourselves. Right? But like the pastor who's leading our church is also family, right? Who I still don't feel safe enough to talk to or safe enough to share with. There's, there's a, there's a dichotomy. Addition is there, so yeah. And

Speaker:

there is, and there's a limitation and a, a a, an aspect of safety that for me, I always say when it comes, especially for my kids, right? When it comes to church or any environment, I like to keep it simple because I know as human beings, we don't all have the same level of. Emotional intelligence. Intelligence in general or verbiage, right? So communication skills. So I always say I just wanna be comfortable. If there is comfort here, then it's, it's something that I can start to proceed in. But same thing for my kids.'cause they go to church now. We, we changed church homes a few times just'cause I like, I like to have church homes, floral. I don't like to have a singular church home.

Speaker 2:

When did that become a thing for you? Um,

Speaker:

when, so in Jamaica I had church homes, staples. Right. And when we came here to New York, my mother had various church homes for periods of time. So when I was in elementary school, it was these two church. And then we went from this church and then there's another church. And then we just always,'cause in Brooklyn, I don't. Being a child, like you said, I never knew the why or how behind why we're going to this church versus that church. But I made a friend and I never knew the whys behind the transitions, but I did see the differences. You know, I saw the differences in how people communicated with each other, how to engage with my mom, how to engage with my brothers and I, mother and sister and I. I saw the differences and I noticed for myself that once there was a sense of familiarity. Comfort Uhhuh. I see. You see where I'm going That more of who they really are started to unravel, and I'm very intentional about purpose. Like if I'm gonna spend my time doing anything, I have a tangible outcome from it. So when I go to church, I'm going for fellowship and I'm going to be close to God. Let's

Speaker 6:

go.

Speaker:

Those are my two tangible outcomes. Honestly, nothing else. Nothing else. What made you

Speaker 3:

sigh on those?

Speaker 2:

It's so, it's so real and so honest. I think of, well, I think that the needs that we have, you know, when I'm talking about fellowship at church are so, they, they, they vary, right? They're not all the same. Um, but I think that this generation, um, of church leaders is probably ill-equipped to really hear that truth, right? And, and minister to those needs effectively. I think. At least it's been my experience. Yeah. Um, it's like our Sunday experience should be this, you should be coming for this one thing. If not, you know, like, you're not, you don't belong. Yeah. Almost, you know? Um, so yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah,

Speaker:

thank you. Because, and also in that familiarity, I noticed that their requirements became church. You have to have on a skirt, you have to wear this, you have to do this, you have to come at this time, you have to park this way. So that's why I like homes. I ha I like to hop. I wanna be a guest at all times. You know what's so funny when you said like your pastor right now, if I'm honest, my primary pastor is steep Steven Ford, Nick. I love him so much. Yeah,

Speaker 2:

I get it.

Speaker:

I love him so much. This is amazing. I. Hear his word more frequently than anyone else. My algorithm on my YouTube give me his 15 minute word every single day, and it is part of my, every single day. I'm just like, Stephen, for Nick in the morning after my, oh, my personal devotion. I'm like, Stephen Fork is, I get dressed because I think he gets it. I think he gets, and again, I've never stepped foot in his church. I've never stepped foot in his church. I've never gone to, I think he's in the Carolinas, in South Carolina. Yeah, North Carolina. Never been there. But I understand, I love that he gets, he gets it in a sense where people are looking to stay close to God. People are looking for words to keep them in alignment and all the rest is just the rest. All the rest is just the rest. And I think in church home, sometimes the rest becomes the church. Yeah,

Speaker 7:

yeah.

Speaker:

But no, I love this. I love what we're talking about and I want us to go back into church home and then transition to like how church home wasn't safe. Then you entered into your room and then we're gonna talk about your career aspirations, like who do you like, who was Finn and how did that transition? I. Like that full circle moment. You see what I'm saying? I'm trying to bring it all around. I love that we're talking about home and the variations of church home. Same. This is,

Speaker 7:

home was the word.

Speaker:

Home was the word because I think people are always searching for somewhere. For me, especially, I always say early, my early years of childhood was filled with diversity, chaos. That's what I call it. That's what it was. And what I've come to learn, especially in the Caribbean community, chaos is taught frequency. So

Speaker 2:

it's stuffy the norm. Yes, yes.

Speaker:

Like it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, the frequency you feel most comfortable mm-hmm. In a certain generation. Yeah. Chaos is, and even as a young child, it made me uncomfortable and that's why

Speaker 2:

I withdrew. Like, I would sense that I would like, Hmm, this is too much. I'm withdrawing. You know, like, y'all figure it out. You know, so

Speaker:

you see, that's good. Whereas, see, I'm the oldest girl, so you already know

Speaker 2:

the, the, you carried away.

Speaker:

Exactly. I'm the oldest girl and, and, and it's four of us. My mother had four kids. My father, she had me, my older brother, her first husband, second husband is my little brother, my little sister. And for. A large portion of my life as a child, I always felt like the adulting room. And it was so taxing as a kid, like to always be the one to be like, okay, now can we move on? Can we stop this? Can we eat? Can we just not do this anymore? You know what I mean? So. Stability and security and, and, and things like that. When you say home really hits hard for me'cause I always feel like I lived on my own since I was 17 years old. I, I needed peace very early on. I found that like peace is necessary for me to exist.

Speaker 2:

Wow. What made you choose your, your peace at 17?

Speaker:

I didn't, it wasn't chosen for me. It was a situation where I basically. So I've always been really good at school, kind of take you back. I've always been really good at school, so I've always had like straight A's always kind of killing it. And to the older I got my house home, life got more chaotic to be honest. And I, I was responsible for the wellbeing. My little brothers and my little sisters from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to bed, picked them up, dropped them off homework. And I was responsible for that. Um, and as obviously I got older and I'm trying to graduate high school, I needed money and that wasn't. You know, there wasn't an allowance. That's what I joke with my kids now. It wasn't an allowance. So I got a job. My first job I got, it was 15. I was a babysitter. So from that I just kept getting jobs and working and obviously that makes little time me take care of my, my brothers and sisters. So that created a lot of conflict, lot of contention and. Throughout the years, I just kept picking me. I'm like, I need money. I need to be able to do so that it was like a slow burn. And then because I started, I started a job in the city out here, so I had to start taking the bus really late and I used to show up to my first period class and basically go to sleep. I still needed to wake up at 5:00 AM to get my little brother and sister out. So it's not like sleeping in was not a thing, you know what I mean? So I got them up and got them out, but as soon as I hit first period, I was not, I was sleeping. So, and as a result, I failed my first period class and my counselors and everyone was like, basically, this isn't, this is not you. What is happening? And you know, in Caribbean culture, as you know, there's a lot of pride. These heavy size bed is killing me. These deep rats that you keep taking is killing me.

Speaker 2:

Those are like bedrocks of our community, you know?

Speaker:

Yeah. The pillars to me that hold up nonsense. The pillars that hold up nonsense. So obviously due to pride, I didn't share all what was going on and that I'm working and then running here, I just was like. I have a lot going on. And they were, and then you know, some people bought it and other people who, I say that when I went to school there was like real like, you know, like the real mamas of school, like my counselors and stuff was like, no, Ika, we're not taking that. You know this work. So you know what? Now you gotta go to night school. You either go to night school or you don't graduate in high school. In high school. Really? You either go to night school or you do not graduate. That hit me like a ton of breaks, not me.

Speaker 3:

Maybe I know the books, I know the work. You're not about to her, right? She right and left back. What? That's that prize. Super senior. Right? Right. Cool. Right. So I was like, oh hell, hell no.

Speaker:

I'm going to night

Speaker 3:

school

Speaker 5:

girl.

Speaker:

So going back to me already limiting my availability to be the primary caregivers to my sisters, I had to limit it more. And that night, that night was the night things exploded. When I had to go to night school when I was just like both his parents was in the house and I said, he's down the street. I have to go two buses away to night school. I will not pick him up. You have to get up. Thank get him. Highly bad word. Be cussing. The cussing. The cussing. If you dare not pick him up. You know how Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know a Caribbean lover, a threat. Listen, if you not pick him up, nobody come back

Speaker:

in here. And in my mind, again, I'm not being a super secret. So I went to night school. It was the longest ride back home ever. The two bus rides. So, funny enough, that night I actually got a ride from one of my friend's, friends from night school.'cause again, it was, I lived in Flatbush. It was in Canarsie. So it was literally like two buses away. And I remember taking like a huge deep breath before I went back in the house. Woo. I'm getting chills. It makes me, yeah. That's how traumatic it was. And long story short,'cause I don't even wanna go into details and get emotional. It, it, it became take your shit and get out my house. Take your shit and get outta my house.'cause I went to night school, it was difficult. It wasn't like, again, that home was comfortable, safe, stable. It wasn't the those things, but it was still a home that I knew, you know? And at the time it was Wow. And I remember I, it's funny, I. I remember saying that when I become Oprah, when I hate getting emotional about that, but when God's purpose of my life shows up and shine, right. Don't tell anybody that you were part of that. And it's the reality of what happened, and that's how I ended up being 17, living on my own. So when you say home, it means so many different things to so many different people.'cause some of us don't come from the traditional home. Thanks, Steve. You're the best. You know, and sometimes I always, that's why I'm such a happy nerd. I say only knowledge and the pursuit of learning teaches you that your environment is not the only environment that the home, you know, is not the only home you can create. So you tell me about how, although you had right, a stable home and you had a stable church, you felt those limitations and then you withdraw. Gimme more insight into that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I've never publicly shared this story, so, um, I'm gonna do so now. When I was, I must have been nine or 10. I was 10 or 11. I was going, um, coming back home from church. Um, I was getting a ride from a deaconess at my church. And we got in the car. Me and my older sister were getting in the car and she was like, Hey, did you, did you say hi to your, your, your, your sister? I was like, no, what are you talking about? And she was like, yeah, that's, that's your brother sister. I was like, what? What do you mean? She's like, your brother, your brother Joshua. That's, that's his sister. I was like, I don't know who you're talking about. And she was like, Ben, stop playing, like respect me. Like go say hi. I was like, I don't know who you're talking about. Like, you really don't know. I said, I have no idea what you're talking about. She's like, oh my God. Like, please don't say that. I told you. And that's how I found out that my father had another child. Um, and like I went home, kept it to myself, um, because at the time the Deaconess was renting from my father. So she was like super worried that if news broke out, that she was the one that told us, you know? And so I felt the need to protect her, um, for sure. And so at, at 10 or 11, like, I don't know what to do with that tension. Like I have no business knowing, holding, knowing that, right? Knowing

Speaker:

or holding that in that space.

Speaker 2:

So I just kept it to myself, um, for a few weeks and then I, I asked my mom. She didn't have the answers. Um, I asked my dad, who kind of dodged the question, um, instead of answering directly, I think he was like, who told you? What do you know? Like, trying to

Speaker:

figure out, figure out like what I know where the curiosity, yeah, where the curiosity is coming from.

Speaker 2:

And I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna withdraw like it. This is too much. I'm just gonna withdraw. So that's kind of where it started. Um. As I grew and as I matured, I realized like all the things that, like, not all the things, but there were things that we taught in church. What I will say is that I learned to lie at home. Like that is where I think we learned to lie. Um, I

Speaker 8:

ity very truth. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I learned to lie at home. I saw how instead of speaking the truth or sharing the truth, people were defending my father or like not sharing the truth. Cleaning, not just cleaning it up but masculine. Like literally hiding it, you know? So I was like, you know what, this is really interesting. So as I like, as I lived my life, when I look back on my life, I realize like that's when I started to learn to lie. That's what I learned with Harlem.

Speaker:

How that's how her to lie. I think that is a power and figure that I learned to lie at home. And I, what's interesting, especially in the Caribbean community, I don't think we see it that way. Of the, yeah, it's like, it's not lying. It's holding legacy.

Speaker 9:

It's protect protection. Yep.

Speaker:

That his, first of all, I'm sorry, you had to hold something so heavy as a child. You know what I mean? That's, that is heavy and complex because then you have to question everything.

Speaker 2:

Everything. Well, if you could lie to me about a brother that I might be having, what do you like? What am I

Speaker 5:

child? You know

Speaker 2:

what else is not true? So I think at 10 or 11 I start spiraling. I question everything. Well, if Nevada's not sure, then like, or this could be true, then what else could you know? So that meant to gymnastics Yeah. Is

Speaker 9:

too much for here, you know? So

Speaker:

And how did that change whole? So now both holes start looking different, right? Absolutely. Both church boom and your actual home, you was like, yeah. How did, how did that now change the. The frequency home.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I think that shaped my entire adolescent experience, like that interaction, that quest for truth. Um, and being told like, yeah, no, you're not ready to know. Or like, there's too much you, you know, I don't wanna tell you. Like, that shaped everything about the way that I saw church, the way that I saw home, the way that I saw safety. Um, I no longer felt safe at home, like at my childhood home. Um, and I also felt like. I think that set me on a quest for like, for God too, in a different way. Um, and I learned 15, 16, 17 or 18 there was more than to God than just this Haitian Baptist denomination that I was, you know, accustomed to grew up in. Um, and I wanted to explore that. I wanted to get to know God and in all the ways that God existed or showed up, not just the way that I was taught I should conform to. So

Speaker:

that's interesting. How did that. How did that add ripples to your aspirations? Right? So tell me more about when you pursued high school Hope Guys school your career. How did that add a, because I always say that in the Caribbean culture church, we don't understand how secrets add A to your people charity, and then people of color. There's enough s in the world. Yeah, yeah. But then we have this. Extra layer. Yeah, extra task of a ripple. So how did that ripple, like impact your high school, college, your career now?

Speaker 2:

So I think as a, as a pk, I, well going back a little bit, my father was gonna say my moms works as well. Uh, a big family. Mama mother was the first senator, the oldest sister, oh, uh, editor her to the US And so she was always supporter running back home. Uh, so I kind of think I learned not just

Speaker 7:

to love, but to save

Speaker 5:

people

Speaker 7:

very, very early on.

Speaker 2:

Uh, loving people is burned, serve people is burned. Say you can't do. So I think that Savior Plex Jam drop. Yeah, you, that savior complex led me, uh, spice social work. Initially, um, I wanted to be a counselor. I wanted to like, you know, help people navigate the terrains that I was navigating. Um, but I still realized like I didn't wanna do that anymore. Like, I realized I didn't feel like that was what God had called me to do. I felt like I was doing that because it was. What people wanted for me, but not necessarily what I

Speaker 6:

wanted for me.

Speaker:

Navigate you into the ways that they wanna go. Yeah. So would you say that like social, it's funny, I wanted to be a social worker in high school, right? Yeah, I did. And I tell a story now about, so in, during. When I went school, they spark, um, where it would allow kids that, you know, wasn't having a good day. Like it was basically like with couches and two couch. Heard about that program. Yes. Spark was very important to ne High School. It was very, um, Ms. McLean and oh bad. I hate that Upper PanIN, but the two counselors in there were pivotal to my wellbeing during high school and I just knew that that rule was safe space. I could go and breathe and you know, just society. And I told her, uh, I wanna be a social, a social worker. I wanna help people. I think there's a lot of people going things that they were or even cheat or circumstances, oh, I'm gonna help them now. You ain't that same thing I'll never forget. Right At Samuel j Tilden High School, she had a F friend who was a social worker. Who worked in the New York City's child, C-P-S-C-P-S. Is it CPS? Is that what was calling it? CPS that worked in CPS? And she said to me, IZ you so pray. She was like, all that you go through, you just sober. Just, I never forget, she just kept saying, you're super. Amen. I want you to know what you're aspiring to, and I don't wanna tell you what to do and what not to do. So she's like, I'm gonna have my friend come to school. Keep in mind her McDonald.

Speaker 3:

So that alone, that alone, I'm like, get to school McDonalds. Like I

Speaker:

was tight. So she came. So I hate that I forgot her name, but I remember the conversation we had and she told me about her dates. Because that's what I'm, I've always been a questioner and I want insight. I, I want your sir,

Speaker 8:

your bush.

Speaker:

You know, and I will never forget, she told me about the days and it just,

Speaker 8:

you

Speaker:

felt so hagy. And she's like, we love people like you, but you don't know how to shut it off. You can. She looked me in my pupils and told me it kill me. She's like, I just met you and I just, you get me so judgey. I'll never forget that she looked me when I wasn't told me it could kill you. I left McDonald's going,

Speaker 3:

I would never be a goddamn social worker. I left McDonald's. Like, guess not. Guess

Speaker:

not just because her experiences,'cause she loved her talk. So you know when somebody is telling you something weak.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker:

All the fees and I'm receiving it. Like, so that's, I love that parallel that we have. So you wanted, so that was your aspiration in high school or college? Or high school. So what happened post high school?

Speaker 7:

Post high school? I started, um. Studying at CK University, I got a full ride. Nice. Say,

Speaker 3:

come on, don't I hate what I hate. I hate What I hate, and I'm not gonna let you do this on this podcast, is I hate, especially when I see black men, don't try, don't play small now. I miss it. Okay. Not, I went to Rutgers on a full ride scholarship. Excuse me, intellect. Excuse me, Ben. Don't, don't play small hair. Tell, come on. What's gonna happen every time you come here, you gonna get your flowers, okay? You listen. You went to Rutgers on a full

Speaker:

ride. The scholarship, tell us about it.

Speaker 7:

So I, so I started, go ahead with a full ride. Um,

Speaker 3:

but no, I, no, no, no. Don't do that.'cause you're human. Me. Yeah. You still achieve that. I did. That is an achieve. That's none of the achievement that just giving out in our community. You just go on ruck on, come on, you did

Speaker 8:

that. Listen.

Speaker 3:

You feel like,

Speaker 7:

but three semesters when I realized, I don't know if school is for me

Speaker 2:

on, I don't know if school is for me right now. I. I just need some more time to process. Uh, immature. Uh, so I started, uh, working for Smashburger and a, it's a, it's a bird or franchise. Yeah. So I, they opened up their flagship store for their, first of all, miso in, out there, but not town. So I started working as a

Speaker 7:

dishwasher and then be six months, got months to, uh.

Speaker 2:

Shift managers they call.

Speaker 3:

Okay. So not six months becoming the boss. I just, first of all, what we not gonna let you do is jump from, I got full ride at Ruckus. I was like, I'm not sure if the books is

Speaker:

for me. Let me go wash dishes. Right? Like, but I feel like that humility and I talked about it was so made different podcast because in this, in society, we don't wanna look like we're trying. Yeah. We don't wanna look like we're failing. We don't wanna look like, we wanna look like we got it together. Sure. For sure. Everybody's ready to go on the next trip. Sure. And do like, and I think it's important to high life, you got a full ride to Rutgers University, did three good semesters, and was like, I don't think I'm, this is me. And you trusted yourself. Yeah.'cause the holy we have talked about is this. You trusted yourself to go, I'm gonna go wash dishes. Yeah. A smashburger. Yeah. Tell me about that. I know your parents was like, I wonder you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. My, my dad was not having it. So my dad, um, interestingly enough, um, before I wanted to be a social worker, I wanted to be a chef. Because my dad, when he came from Haiti, he was a, a chef at a, uh, or sous chef at a, a country club. He used to always tell us he used to make$3 and 23 cents an hour when he first came to the us, uh, to help us understand how far he's come, right? Um, so in some ways, some shape, some form, like that spirit of hospitality and hosting people and cooking and all that always has been a part of my life. Um, and that's what I wanted to pursue. And when I realized like. Dad said no. I was like, okay, well, I can do social work and I can figure that out, and I can still help people in this way. I just didn't feel like that was the thing. So I was like, I'd rather wash dishes than do anything else. I, I literally got a job at Smashburger. Within six months I got promoted and then within two months I was a regional store manager, opened up seven stores with them. I was doing the thing that I was passionate about, right. I was hosting, which is hospitality or

Speaker 5:

hosting,

Speaker 2:

because that was like the spirit of home for me. The spirit of home is like hospitality serving people, right. Hosting all of that is still, it's

Speaker:

also, and it's also following that internal navigator. Yeah. Right. Because some people would look at it and be like, you had all these

Speaker 3:

other opportunities,

Speaker:

but you

Speaker 3:

only, you know what home feels like? Tell me about that. So we opening up a ton of smash burgers under your leadership. Yeah. Love that. And what, what, what's next?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what's next is I realized like I, I think I still, I think I still need some more formal education. I think I'm ready to go back now. So I went back, I got my degree, um, this time in psychology.'cause I think being in the trenches with people and under, and hearing different stories, I think. Being at Smashburger allowed me the opportunity not to just work in the back, but also work the floor and listen to people's stories and understand where they're navigating. And that really made me curious about studying psychology, understanding not just the mind, but people's experiences. So I started studying psychology. I got my degree in 2017. Fast forward, congrat. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And have been super passionate. Always passionate about like men in particular, men's mental health and their wellness. Um, and have been working in spaces that prioritize community and and wellness. So.

Speaker:

Nice. Yeah. Tell me more about these spaces. Will you do that? I just wanna highlight that there is no job too small. No. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah. Because both you making the decision, and this is, this is a path that feels like home daily, right? You not only get to stretch the muscle's, hospitality and creating a hole in these franchisees. For your employees, for the guests that bur in there, but also saying to yourself that I, I wanna maximize this. I'm also gonna go to school so I can have a formal education as well. You know what I mean? I feel like as a, in our society, we don't see things as holistically as we need to.'cause some people will be coming in and be like, oh, where's the managers? And you like, yeah, there's a complaint here, but there's something here. You know what I mean? And they don't expect that. They don't expect that from our community. They don't expect that from our black men. And I, I love that you're like a Swiss army there. I love that. So tell me about these spaces that you enter and you bring this level of expertise.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So when I first graduated college, uh, my first. Formal job that I got, uh, was an offered to be a youth counselor in the city of Chicago. And, uh, working with Black, brown, black and Brown boys, ages 16 to 24, like just creating space for them to like, share their experiences. Um, a lot of these brothers are, are kids that had seen their homes get shot and murdered and plain sight folks that were living through complex trauma and, and navigating that. And so just creating spaces where they could like, be honest about it. Firing community. That was what I was called to, uh,

Speaker 3:

how was it take picking up from New

Speaker:

Jersey and going to Chicago? It was

Speaker 2:

exciting. It was exciting. I love It was so exciting. Oh my gosh. It was thrilling because I always felt like I was called to more than just my community. Um, but actually doing the work and being in the trenches and. Doing the thing that I knew I was called to do. Like doing purpose. Yeah. There's nothing like it. Nice doing

Speaker 3:

purpose. Yeah. Then

Speaker:

yes, doing purpose. I don't think that, whoa, I just feel like that isn't happy. Yeah. Because I think we always think like, what is my purpose? And it's like people think it's a statement versus an activity. So Julie purpose was transitional. You, me, your, you mentioned your

Speaker 2:

pastor earlier, and I think my pastor in this season is Dr. Darius Daniels in one of the sermons that he, um, he preached about a month or so ago. He said, callings don't change, but roles do. And I think for a while I was married

Speaker 8:

still. What most,

Speaker 2:

yeah, like my calling is to create spaces where black men and black and brown men primarily can heal. Can come together, can connect, can convene, can be cared for, like that's my calling. Where I do that work, how that shows up looks differently, right? So with black men in tech, I am the head of community. I lead membership where I facilitate space where black men and brown and brown boys can come together, can, can find mentorship, can find community, but can also upskill, right? Um, at church I serve and support local small groups that are. Again, creating that same space. So like the calling is the same, but the role and responsibility that I have is different. So

Speaker:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker:

I really, it's so crazy. Thank you. Like it, it brings me back to this, this experience of adversity, right? In our younger years and over time I have learned that God states us for a reason. Because I think when we think of Christianity, we think of, you keep thinking it's supposed to be this pure ly experience and that's why people and men likes to keep restrictions and regulations and all the church. But I feel like hearing these stories make me feel that that purity actually lives in this thing. It does, because then you were en staked by that experience. Just it opened up another eye for you, not only to realize your fault wasn't the holy thought it was, but also you're calling who secret. Mm-hmm. Because everywhere you've gone, you've created spaces and flows for black men to assist. And without that stain you, you wouldn't even realize that your home is not the home they thought it was. Oh my gosh. That's so amazing.

Speaker 2:

And I think what I learned along the journey was that like I am home, like wherever I am, God is, and wherever I am, like the space that I'm called to cultivate and curate is. It's never changing, like, yeah. So

Speaker:

yes, I love that. I love how not only your personal experiences, but your professional experiences had that, that similar feel of not only creating a home, but positioning you in the place that you were the architect for that. See, you went in to wash dishes. They said, no, I need you to be the manager. And they said, now I need you to be a regional manager. Do you say what I be that sometimes, and that's why I joke about this with Dave. So I know I did joke about it all the time, that when it comes to my podcast, I'm very over feared. I want everything to be great. And I have found in the three, four years now the podcast that every time I am all prepared, anxious about anything, I truly see God cracking. Yeah. Like, like

Speaker 3:

looking at me like truly cracking up because I'm a dream. And I dream big.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I know he sit there and be like, oh, poor,

Speaker 5:

poor little

Speaker 3:

fool.

Speaker:

Poor little fool. Don't know what I have

Speaker 9:

thinks. She knows.

Speaker:

She thinks she knows.'cause we think we go and it, and I love this conversation'cause it makes and brings everything back to center to focus on the public. Focus. And it's crazy that I tell my daughters all the time, focus on the details. God knows the direction.

Speaker 4:

Mm. That's so deep

Speaker:

all the time because I have two daughters that are very different and even my friends.'cause you know, I feel like everybody's always trying, you know, we're chasing the mochi and chasing happiness. We're chasing boldness. And I'm always like, you have no idea the direction, no air. Focus on the details. Anyone else details that? What then what actually makes you, what motivates your actions most? The details you need folks to create internally because we can't want a partner or relation or even be a part of a community unless you know your calls. So tell me how you got to the podcast.

Speaker 7:

We not that just yet. See?

Speaker:

Alright, listen, we ready for it. How did you come to the podcast? How did you say I need, I need this conversation to be rolled.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So in 2022, I ended a five year long relationship and. I already talked about like not feeling safe at home. Um, it was a relationship that was a bit contentious towards the end, and I knew that I needed to do some work to heal and I wanted to heal in isolation alone by myself without really having to answer to people like, where are you at? What you're doing? Like, I just needed space and time and I'll never forget. Um, it was. June 6th, 2022. So like a couple months before that, um, I got a call from my mentor and she was flying to town to see me. And she, no, she wasn't flying to town to see me. Uh, she had just landed home where she was new, uh, Savannah, Georgia, Dr. Batis, she was, she just landed. Called and was like, baby, you, you're on my heart. I can feel you. What's going on? I just broke down. I, I told her what I was navigating, what I was feeling, and she said, why don't you just go home? Why don't you just go back home? So, mind you, at the time I was living about 10 or 12 minutes from my childhood home, um. I was like, I, I don't wanna do that. And I don't, I don't think it's, I had all the reasons why. Yeah. All the after 30, going back home, like, I don't wanna humble myself. I don't wanna do that. I want, you know,

Speaker:

I wanna keep you full.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. What does it look like? What do I look like going back home? Yeah. And she was like, baby, just call did Daddy and ask if you can come back home. And I did. He said, yeah. And so four months later I came back home and, uh. The podcast is like chronically in that journey, what it looked like to humble myself and come back home to heal one. Um, but also what I discovered along the journey, what I, what I, what I discovered about me, but what I discovered about people, what I discovered about, um, life, about God, about relationships. Relationships too, right? About grief, about, you know, giving myself permission to grieve. Um, not just someone who had passed, but. Relationship. You know,

Speaker:

I tell about that and yeah. And giving yourself the grace to greed expectation, right? I think as human beings, we subconsciously build these expectations, show the people around us who we love, that we're like, oh, this will happen and that will happen. Then it doesn't, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in totality, the ending or of a relationship, but we kind of see those expectations start to join up. And taking space to, to grieve those expectations. True. True. How was something that is,'cause I feel like in this society there was

Speaker 3:

challenges

Speaker:

because I feel like in this society where statistically, there are more people living with their parents in their thirties now than ever,

Speaker 2:

ever before. So that's what made me say. I think I wanna have more people on the po I wanna talk about, I was running into people that was like, oh my God. Like that's my experience. So I, I did that too. Or like then I've been hiding for the last six months because this is what I've been doing. Like, and I wanted to create space where we could talk a bit more openly about we were navigating as 30 something year olds that were coming back home, whether after like. A breakup or an illness or

Speaker 5:

or being laid off

Speaker 9:

economy is crazy. Or like, you remember your dad, I, right? Yeah. You come back home or you got a prognosis, more support. She'll like talk about that with people. Has we interesting. So

Speaker:

I love that. Yeah. I love because the pat back home is not narrow.

Speaker 8:

It's not, we,

Speaker:

it's not linear now. And, but when we see statistics, right, when we see the headlines and there were people in their thirties with their parents than them before, I think it, it becomes a joke. Yeah. It becomes a joke. It becomes if this point of shame and contention where if all things they want,

Speaker 8:

it works.

Speaker:

And, and I think personally when I see those statistics again, I know I, why I hopefully No, I'm lying. But, but also me creating Oh, yeah. With my husband. I know since I was 18, like you and it, it's, when I read that it may be weak for my generation, it may be weak for millennials. Because we are coming to, in the place, into our society, to the space of consciousness about our wellness and our wellbeing. And if the numbers is our word in technology about my data, if the numbers are saying there is a large portion of turning home.'cause a large portion was a patent. Well

Speaker 8:

sure.

Speaker:

And we are seeking out. That level of wellness to be whole, find a home eternally to then thrive, right? Like everything is not, there are the win sharks. It's more about the wellness devil. So I love this. Tell us more about the hype. Yeah,

Speaker 7:

so

Speaker 2:

the podcast kind of got birthed from a few different reasons and things, but there's a piece of research that I read a few years back. Um. The Surgeon General of the United States, the 19th and 21st. I believe his name is Dr. Marty. Don't get me. Don't. Yes, we well put

Speaker 5:

the real name. Don't worry about that. Go

Speaker 2:

ahead. He, he put out an article stating that there's like a global epidemic of loneliness. Um, loneliness is really affecting communities nationwide. Right. I really felt called to create a space where, you know, we could talk about that loneliness that we're experiencing. Right. Um, and talk about what we're doing to heal that. Talk about what we're doing to come together and like, and heal and, and heal well.

Speaker:

So it's the podcast where you come together. So you talk about how. People who's made their way back home.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. People have made their way back home. People that have, they're looking for an answer looking for a way back home. Right. It's not a one size fits all, but like

Speaker:

what a whole need for them. Yeah. Right. So I feel like we define culture in so many different ways. There's a whole within ourselves. Yeah. That we need to kind of first the foundation for sure. As we navigate the world. Then there's the homes that we create and the spaces that we occupy. Then there is the home that you brought to the iron follow For sure. So talk to me about like the variations in the conversations, what you, what the audience could expect and they look your podcast.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think the audience can expect a lot. Uh, I have a lot of guests that are, um, that have been with me through my journey home. So you'll, you'll hear a lot of, uh, different stories about me and who I've been and you know, how people have related to me. But you'll also hear, you know, spiritual leaders. You'll hear coaches, you'll hear therapists talk about what home means, what healing means, what it looks like to different people. So there's something for everyone.

Speaker:

Nice. Thank you. I love that. And I love that it's not linear. Yeah. And I love that. Like you said, you had a credited professional. Yeah. And you

Speaker 6:

yourself for sure

Speaker:

studied

Speaker 6:

psychology,

Speaker:

you know, because I think also in our society you have a lot of talking and with little experience with a lot of. I'm glad to see that you didn't any ED to work, but you won't free it be.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker:

This has been such an amazing competition. I could go off a d. Could be. Thank you so much being on the podcast. Thank you. If I let you go air on the podcast, we believe that music

Speaker 8:

is the Interate rapist as he's being.

Speaker:

Music helps us through our challenging times that amplify our highlight. So every week, my guess what? Buy on the cake. So tell me what's in the queue, what you, what's

Speaker 2:

in the queue? A lot of afrobeats.

Speaker 3:

Hey, you hit the boo. I

Speaker 2:

hit the, but a lot of Afrobeats Uhhuh. Um, there's a Christian group called the Detroit Collective that I've been robbing to. Um, there's a particular song called What A Friend We Have that I've been like. Having a repeat? Repeat, yeah. Repeat. Yeah, for sure we have. Nice. And then, um, what else? I think that's it. Yeah.

Speaker:

Nice. I love those. I love those two intersections. Yeah. Because of my podcast. How do you be mind? Yeah. People always understand there is a spiritual component to our discussion. Right? But I'm also like we are human being. I don't know where in our society we came to this, this disbelief that spirituality and Christianity means perfection. Right. I don't know where that came from, but we are human beings and we are lead. So

Speaker 3:

I'm definitely listening to Kirk, Frankie, right in a little spice hands, listen and not listen. And I'm talking reggae spice. Listen, I could do it both. I'm listening. A little maverick city. Listen, I'm this little smokey Nelson, but I'm also. Definitely listen to Jason. Okay. I'm definitely listening to Jason like,

Speaker:

you know what I mean? So thank you so much. I love this conversation. We continue to be on this conversation because I'm gonna beat me. Your fuckings, you are talking about home. But thank you so much. This was such a treat.

Speaker 6:

Thank you.