How do you divine?

TRANSFORMATIVE| Embracing Change & Diversity with Urmi Hossain

• How do you divine? • Season 3 • Episode 25

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In this episode of 'How Do You Divine,' we sit down with Urmi, a remarkable individual who has redefined the meaning of 'transformative' in her life. From starting as a corporate professional to becoming an author, podcaster, and more. Urmi shares her journey of transformation. She discusses her background, the fear of stepping out of her comfort zone, her accomplishments in finance, and the beauty of embracing diversity. Discover how Urmi's definition of success has evolved and how she navigates through the challenges of balancing her traditional upbringing with her creative pursuits. Learn valuable insights on personal growth, cultural preservation, and the significance of opening up to new experiences.

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Thank you for listening and for adding new dimensions to your definitions. Keep growing, keep exploring, and keep defining life on your terms.


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Sanika is a storyteller, vibe architect, and crowd igniter—passionate about self-discovery, culture, and the power of words. With a background in technology and marketing communications, she’s built a platform rooted in authenticity and resonance. Whether commanding the stage or leading deep conversations, Sanika doesn’t just hold space—she transforms it. Her work inspires growth, challenges perspectives, and amplifies the voices that need to be heard most

As the host of How Do You Divine?, she invites listeners to redefine meaning, embrace transformation, and navigate life—one word at a time. Her mi...

Sanika:

Welcome to this episode of How Do You Divine, where we define the words that drive our lives one word at a time. And today we are here with old me sign to explore how she has come to define the word transformative. Omi, thank you so much for being here. absolutely. I was so happy when you reached out and wanted to be a part of the podcast and really share your journey with our audience. We're gonna talk about how you've defined transformative throughout your journey, but as an author and fellow podcaster as well as a corporate girl, I just wanted to start with. How has your journey to transform When did it become a moment for you where you said, I can do more, I can be more than a corporate girl. I can be more than an author. And what drew you to in these various spaces?

Urmi:

Yes. I would about five to six years ago I had a little bit of time in my hands and I was like, I wanna do all of these things, but I don't know where to start. And so it all started by taking. Literally little, little steps, baby steps. And little by little I started to follow my passion. I started to follow my curiosity, my intuition, and I started to do little things. And that's how I was literally planting my seeds what happening. I started to do all these different things such as, you know, creating a blog, doing interviews on YouTube, being on podcast shows, my own, um, my own book and then what happiness now that. years have passed, or five years have passed. When I look back at it, I am like, damn, there's, there's been so much transformation in me. Like I can see my older self and the person that I am right now and compare them, and I can see there was an evolution in me. Like I became much more. Confident I was able to build my own personal brand. I can also see that people perceive me in a different manner as well. Like people come up to me and they're like, oh, we really like this version of yourself. Like, we see a much, um, you know, a much more. Um, knowledgeable person, a much more confident person, and that's how I realized how much I have transformed myself. And I didn't think about it, but when I look back and I see how far I've come, transformation

Sanika:

And how did it feel during those times? Right. As someone who exists in corporate spaces myself, were, was there any fear when you started to transform and kind of open up yourself a little bit more into your creativity? I.

Urmi:

failing, fear of judgment, what happened is I was like, you know what? If I don't try, I will never know. And so I didn't like having that unknown. I wanted to answer that, uh, unknown factor. I wanted to, you know, make that question mark, uh, an answer. So I. was like, I'm still gonna go with it. And lemme tell you this, it was, it's hard at the beginning. It's hard, like when you are being yourself, being vulnerable in front of people, especially through storytelling, writing telling your stories through a podcast, you always feel it's challenging because you're. Showing a different side of yourself to the world, and you're also showing yourself out there

Sanika:

Yeah.

Urmi:

to people that do not know you. But then I realized how was able to impact people.'cause people would come up to me and be like, oh my gosh. I also went through the same stories. I also go through the same struggle. And a lot of people, like let's say for instance, when it comes to personal branding, people were like, how did you do it? And went

Sanika:

Yes, and you did it afraid. I think I've talked about this on numerous podcasts that, you have to proceed, although you're afraid. while afraid.

Urmi:

Yes. Yes. there's this quotation that I, um, that I have on my phone that says they cave you. Fear to enter, seek the treasure, uh, holds the treasure you

Sanika:

Mm.

Urmi:

And so that's how I was like, I push myself. I also read the book about fear and basically it was saying how much we are afraid of different things, but what sometimes we need to see fear as our friend. We have to see it as our. Allies. So every time we are afraid of something, just have to see this as a positive thing. We need that. Our fear is telling you to go for it. So that's how I like shifted a little bit the way I think about fear. Every time I'm fearful, I always

Sanika:

Yes. I love that. So bring us back a little bit. Tell me about your upbringing, where you originally. From, to give the audience like a full spectrum of all of my guests, because I think often in these conversations about elevation and success and pursuing your dreams and goals, there is this pretense that you need to have come from wealth or have opportunities that you're like, you know what I mean? It's, I always feel like it's a range. Right. It's either, we are fortunate enough to be birthed into,, circumstances that give us these predetermined privileges and access to certain resources, right? Or there is the other story where, you know, you get it out the mud essentially. You have absolutely nothing, but there's something in the middle, right? There's, there there's a range of who we are and where we come from. So give us a little of where are you originally from? Give us. Some of those early days. Nice.

Urmi:

I Italian by birth and Bengali by blood. So are from Bangladesh. So I have lived most of my life in Italy. I lived in different parts of Italy. I was born in Sicily, moved to the north, went to UK for a year, came back to uh, to Milan, and then I came to Montreal and my family moved to. Italy from Bangladesh right after they got married. So they are basically like a typical immigrant family who moves to a different country for better future, better opportunities. And I come from a very modest, uh, family. Like my parents were not entrepreneurs or business owners or anything of that sort. And I would say that as, um. As someone who has parents who are immigrants, they really put a lot of on their kids. Like they just wanted their kids to basically build a better future, get a good education, and so forth. And of course, they always. Inspired me to have a good job and, you know, live well, live comfortably. But no one ever told me about these other things that I do right now

Sanika:

Yes.

Urmi:

life. You know, like writing a book, having a podcast, and so forth. These that I have done out of my own curiosity, and honestly, this is another thing about the culture that I come from the South Asian culture, is that we don't really celebrate people bringing. Creative or being artists because, you know, there is this stigma behind that. It's not a stable job. Why would you do that? You know? But I, on a, like, I do have a passion for my job or the day-to-day job that I do, which is in finance. So in that sense, I would say my parents were like lucky, but. don't think it would've been okay if I was just strictly a business owner or an entrepreneur because it's just not seen as a positive thing. And in the South Asian culture, there are only three career path, whether, uh, you can be, um, an engineer, a doctor, or

Sanika:

a lawyer. Ah,

Urmi:

a lawyer. I

Sanika:

so funny you're saying that, and I am, I'm laughing and smiling inside because it's very similar to the Caribbean culture, right, and that's why I said that. But it's part of why I love this podcast, honestly, is because it just shows us that we come from different regions across the world, and all of our parents who migrated from one country to another, all kind of have this. Same predetermined notion of what success is, right? I have friends that are from Africa all over the continent, and their parents who migrated either to the States or to Canada or to Europe, they too have that They've. Preached that sense of success is you must be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. Right? And it's, it makes me laugh sometimes because it makes me wonder, what movie did they all watch that was translated across all languages? Because they all got the memo. They all bought into it and they all loved it. But I think you make an amazing point about the fact that. Being a creative or a creator is not seen as a fruitful career, mainly because of the sustainability aspect and the pursuit of constantly like selling yourself and winning opportunities and things like that, right? So this reminds me of conversations I have with like my grandparents and my parents, where I look at it from a lens of love and understanding, right? Because they want their children to have stability, you know, and they want them to be stable and safe. So that's where that comes from. Just understanding that the underbelly of the, Hey, hey, hey, don't be a creative, don't be an entrepreneur. Don't do that. Comes from the place of we, I want you to have a stable lifestyle. And from what I know, in order to have those things, you need to be a doctor. A lawyer or an engineer stick to a company and you know you'll have that life. But I feel like the economy has taught us that there is no promise in any degree. Or any industry, right? There is no guarantee for a happy life, right? Or a sustainable life. Migrating to any country and I need to buy this dream. I need to pursue this goal, which is to do as my parents. Said in order to ensure that I have a happy and fruitful life. But the beauty about life is that as we transform and we, we have these different reflections, we under, we start to realize that life doesn't have to be any one thing.

Urmi:

I agree with you and I, I find it interesting. This whole definition of success is the, it's pretty much the same no matter where you go. And also think that the problem is that. For the society's success is usually attributed to this one thing. You know, you have a successful career, whether it is in one of those three paths that you have mentioned, sometimes it's associated with having a nice car, a nice house, you know, having a, a family and things like that, but they never make you think otherwise, you know, and I feel like I had to really. define

Sanika:

I like to know.

Urmi:

traditional definition of success to define it also associate success with also how much money you have. You know, we think that, oh, if you're like crazy rich, you are a successful person. But sometimes even the richest person are very unhappy. And for me, success was more about doing The things that I love. pursuing my passions, even though if they might not be always associated with money, you know, because I also realize that, you know, sometime money does not buy happiness does not make you always happy. And I think it's important to find your own definition of success. And I,'cause everyone tends to follow the standard definition of

Sanika:

The one we.

Urmi:

but I think it's very. Yes.

Sanika:

No, I completely agree with you. When would you say, transformative moment where you said, I'm still gonna pursue finance, I'm going to stay in corporate to satisfy that fear right? About being unable to sustain my lifestyle, but I'm gonna open up myself a little bit more. When did you have that transformative moment in your journey? Was it earlier on?

Urmi:

in my late, late twenties, so I feel like I, I'm pretty late in this game. I was literally, was in my late twenties, so when I was, I would say 27, 28, that's when I started to realize about my own definition of success and how I wanted to change that from what was accepted in the, in the society, meaning that I. Was up until a certain point. what the traditional, um, definition of success was. You know, like you finish school and you start working and so forth. And let me tell you this, like, don't get me wrong, I do like what I do, and I do like the fact that I am in a corporate job doing finance and stuff like that. That's also my definition of success. Could be accepted by the society, but that's also my definition of success. Being able to be a woman in finance, which is, I would say my biggest accomplishment. You know, being able to be in finance, being in a male DOD industry, and also pursuing this several designation in the financial industry. But at the same time, I was like, I think there's much more. Then your nine to five job. And that's how I was like, I need to work on? my five to nine time to develop myself and to find that own definition of success. So for me, it really happened when I was

Sanika:

Mm. And how did you lean into that? Because was how was the book before or after that? Transform, transformative moment.

Urmi:

after. And I think the starting point was when I was talking to another girl who also used to work in finance, but then she launched her own business and then I was like opening up myself to her and I was like, you know, I wanna do all these different things. And she was like, you know, I think you have something to offer. So jump on the opportunity. Go for it. And so I did an interview with her on her YouTube channel. And then after that I was like, I kind of like that, you know? I said, I really like that. I wanna see where

Sanika:

Yes.

Urmi:

And then she just told me like, start from something that you'cause she was like, I think you have a. baggage of knowledge, and I think it's, it's time that you share those information to people because people can benefit from you. So then I created a blog, and then I started to have a YouTube channel. Then I had my first book,

Sanika:

Nice. I love that. So tell us more about your YouTube channel. What was your YouTube channel name? Because I want everyone to stay along with the journey. So you started with the interview on her platform, and then you created your own platform. What did you name it? What was the purpose behind that platform?

Urmi:

name. I made it very easy, Oran because I realized that I don't need to sell anything. I am the product, I'm the product, I'm the service. That's how I saw it. And so just called it Oran. basically I talk about different things, like I talk about my. Typically I talk about my passions, like my, my, uh, my passion for public speaking, my passion for language learning. I provide tips and tricks to people so they can learn from it. From my own experiences. I have interviews type of content with people where I talk about, again, public speaking, how can we become a better speaker? I also talk about finance, but I talk more about. Career in finance and how you can, um, basically, basically talk about the CFA, which is a program in the financial industry. It's a DIS designation that you complete, and it stands for, cer, uh, stands for charter financial analysts. So I talk about like, what are the ways that you can, you know, succeed in past exams. So I, I basically provide tips and everything is shared from my own experiences. So that's how I, that, this is why I called it Stein, because. I'm the product. I'm the one who's like, you know, providing you ideas, and I've been having that for the past three years, I would

Sanika:

so tell me what led to the book, because your book titled Discovering Your Identity, A Rebirth of Interracial Struggle. Tell me what was the most transformative realization while writing a book, while saying,

Urmi:

when I first wrote the book, I was inspired by another author. Who was basically talking about her life, but as I was reading this, I was like, oh my gosh, this feels like she's talking about my life. And so she told me how she wrote it. She so published it and I was like, I think I can do this too. But I didn't think was happening at that moment. This is, we're talking about 2022. so what happened is I started to write it and every day I would sit down, write like. a chapter, or I would do like 30 minutes an hour. But I was very consistent and I was very disciplined in that. And then what happened is as I completed it and I self-publish it, I was like, I did it. And so for me it was realization that I did it. I actually did it. You know?'cause I feel like it's everyone's dream to write a book, but a lot of people don't make it concrete. But for me, when I do something, I'm a go-getter. So I like to like make it happen. And so the fact that I have. it. It was just the realization that I am capable of doing whatever I wanna do if I put my mind into it. And so it was just a, like a mindset work. I really had to work on my, would say, the way I think, and had to wire my mind to think that I can do it. And so I finally managed to do it. I, I am very proud of it, meaning that I. I feel like not many people can say, oh, I'm a self-published author. So for me it.

Sanika:

I wrote a book. And it's about your experiences. So while writing that book, did you have any aha moments about your journey as an immigrant living in Italy and then moving to Montreal? What do you think were some key moments that made you go, Hmm, there's more to life than what I thought it was.

Urmi:

to write about my childhood and my teenagehood because basically I'm talking about my life in Italy and how it was to be a tour culture kid. Like how it was for me to grow up in between two cultures, the Bengali culture and the Italian culture, and I'm sharing my and teenage episodes that happened in my life and it was. Interesting to see how everything was so vivid in my memory. It's like, it was just like, felt like it just happened yesterday, so I remember everything and it felt very. In a way, you know, I feel like I was. able to heal a little bit about myself. I feel like, you know, if I wanna go back to something, it's, I can go back to this book. It's, it's sort of like digital

Sanika:

Yeah.

Urmi:

That's how I like to see it, because I'm talking about my life I feel like I can see, I can see a trend. In the book because I start, you know, I talk about my life as I Was a kid. I, until I moved to Montreal. And when I moved to Montreal, I feel like there was this whole transformation of me becoming a much more confident woman and so forth. And even there, I can see this shift, a revolutionary shift in, in myself. So for me it was very therapeutic. It was very, um. I am very, I wanna say I was very present in the moment as I was writing and I was present. I feel like all the memories were coming about

Sanika:

Was there a large Bangladesh community in Italy?

Urmi:

yes and no. Meaning that when my dad moved, he always says he was one of the first one. And I do think he first one.'cause he moved in the uh, nineties and he didn't know anyone. He had no connection. There were not Bengali people. He had to learn the language. He had to learn a lot of things and. I was born afterwards. So he always says, you are the first BOGO girl to be born in Italy. I was like, okay, fine. I'll take that. And I think it's true because there is no one older than me in the community that I know. And then what happened is he was the first one who, who moved, and little by little other people started to come, so he brought his brother. Then other people came in, and so in Sicily, the first I would say community was. Was was created and then they all spread. So they went to Rome, they went to Milan, they all went to other parts of Italy. And what happened is in around 2010, a lot of people moved to uk. So the community that was built in Italy moved to uk, but they knew immigrants from Bangladesh came in. So now there is. A big community of Bengali people. They all moved to Italy for some reasons. I don't know why. Um,

Sanika:

Nice. And how was that learning a new language? I think it's such a undervalued skill. For any child or human being to live within two worlds, as I call it, right? You have the world that's in your home, and then it's the world that is outside your door. But as an individual, you're able to transition very seamlessly for school, for your career, for friendships so how was that, being from Bangladesh in Italy learning Italian, how was that in your younger years?

Urmi:

so because I learned Italian. Since I went to school, you know, like I was born in Italy, so I went to to school, to Italy. So I, I, there isn't much that I would remember, but I can tell you this. One thing about my childhood was that at home we used to speak Bengali. used to speak Bengali into a certain moment because then I brought Italian at home, so as soon as I learned how to speak Italian, I was just talking in Italian with my sister. So at home we were speaking two languages, Italian and Bengali. So me, it was me with my sister in Italian, and then sometimes I would speak. Um, Italian, like I would throw some Italian words with my parents when I would speak with my parents, and my parents taught me how to speak Bengali. However, I do regret that I do not know how to write or read in Bengali because I feel like it's like. I feel like I'm missing

Sanika:

Yeah.

Urmi:

there. Like there, I feel like there's a void because I, I can't complete, like, I can't, I can't know. only know how to speak it. And then there's, there are other languages that I know, like Italian and French, English, which I know how to read and write and everything. But I do not know to read and write in my parents' language, which is something that I do

Sanika:

Yeah.

Urmi:

a way. I just know how to

Sanika:

Now take us from, growing to school in Italy, speaking Bengali at home, and then you move to Montreal, Canada. I.

Urmi:

was quite an adventure I. to say. Um, because basically in, Italy I only saw

Sanika:

Mm-hmm.

Urmi:

I just saw Italian people. I did not see even people from other countries. And then when I moved to Montreal, I see all these people with like different like ethnicity, and it was so. I don't know. I, I felt like I was Alice in Wonderland because everything was new to me. It was literally new to me. And then when I started to go to university, I had all these friends from different parts of the world, which I did not have in Italy. Like in, I only had Italian friends, strictly Italian friends. I only knew that world. Whereas in Montreal, I feel like I was exposed to people from India, from China, from South Korea, Africa, other parts of Europe. So for me it was. A learning opportunity because I feel like I'm getting exposed to these other countries that exist in the world that I didn't know too much about. And so it was beautiful because I also felt like I was able to connect with a lot of these people, especially because they also had multiple, like backgrounds, multiple cultural backgrounds, you know? So I feel like I was able to connect better. I feel like people were understanding each other better, whereas, and Italy was different, you know, I, I just had one, one

Sanika:

It's funny you say that'cause it reminds me of why I love New York so much. Right. So I was raised in Brooklyn, New York, and I tell people all the time, when I hear people say things like, oh, I've never met someone from China or never met someone from Japan or India and stuff like that. It's, it's so, It's very odd. I can't resonate with it. Because I was raised in Brooklyn, New York, where New York is truly a melting pot. One of my first friends were from was from Italy. Her name was Jenny. You know what I mean? I'm talking elementary school friends, like in elementary school, we celebrated every holiday from Hanukkah to Chinese New Year to Rum kapur, to Muslim, like every single holiday. D, and this is in elementary school, so that's the only thing I know is to be surrounded by people with different ethnicities, colors, hair types, personalities, languages. That's all I know. So when I hear people from different regions of the world that's like, well, I've never seen a black person, or I have no idea about Asian culture or African culture. I'm interested, like, I'm interested in your lens. Because I don't, it just seems so odd to me and very while obviously it's no one's like no one created, made it that way. Now, as an adult, I hope people realize how narrowing that view is, right. It's so limiting to only be surrounded by. And your ethnicity or your culture versus being immersed in all of the different cultures around the world is so beautiful. If I'm honest with you, it was most surprising to me in corporate. That was the first time for me. I met people in real life that didn't know anything about a multicultural world. Was in corporate. Corporate.'cause again, I went, I was raised here in New York, so from elementary school all the way up to college, I was surrounded by everybody like, you know what I mean? Swedish, Poland, like. When I say everybody, everyone, there isn't a cuisine I haven't tried. There isn't a culture I haven't learned about through a friend or a friend's friend. So when I went into corporate and, you know, certain spaces only have a specific group of people, and most often was like the only woman or the, especially the only black woman in the room. I wasn't intimidated at all. I actually found it quite interesting. It just, I sat there like a sponge and was like, where are you from? Where are you from? What did you come from? How did you get here? And it made me realize that a lot of people come to New York diversity.

Urmi:

diverse New York. We spoke about this, uh, like the first time. I love. Love New York because I really feel like you have a taste of everything. Everything that is there in the world. You have it in New York and it's done really well. Like New York does really celebrate diversity. which is so beautiful. Um,'cause I went a couple of times to New York and I feel like you never get disappointed even when you are eating at different restaurants, trying different cuisines. I think we tried an Afghani restaurant and I felt like it was very. Very authentic and I, and I love that. I love how New York brings

Sanika:

I agree. When my husband and I had children we had to raise our children here in New York because Living in New York forces you to have a open mind about everything, about people, about topics, about politics, about anything. And it is not something that is conscious, right? Like everyone's not walking around like, oh, I'm a New Yorker and I'm open-minded, but. It is subconscious. Whereas as New Yorkers, we leave our house every single day and we have no idea what we gonna see. It is going, it might be crazy, it might be a little wild it, but we're open to the range of what this city has to offer. And something about that I think creates a foundation of humility and acceptance amongst people.

Urmi:

new York, which makes it special. I, I, I, I agree with you. Like when you go out, you, you're not sure what you're gonna see. And I love how they have like different areas for like different communities. Um, and I think I watched this video. from a couple of, uh, weeks ago about this Indian couple getting married and this was happening in New York and I think they were doing their celebration like, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with this, but they have one ceremony where they have to like enter dancing and they were doing that, I think near the financial district. And I was like, this is so incredible. And, and there is this other girl that I. Paul, who is from India, she moved to study in New York and she was saying how they were like teaching Bollywood classes and, or they were doing like a Bollywood class or something in her university. And I was like, this is what we should be doing. We should be celebrating diversity. And going back to your point about your own, uh, childhood. When I grew up, we were not celebrating even at school. Like we were not celebrating different, um. Festivity, like I didn't know what the new lunar year was. Um, I didn't know about all these different things and I grew up in a country which was predominantly very Catholic. So I had a cruciferous in my classroom. We just celebrated, you know, Christmas, Easter, like, like typical things that they do. Yeah. But for. For the Italian community living there. For them, the fact that I was different was a learning opportunity. They were always super curious about me because we celebrate know, we do Ramadan and

Sanika:

Yeah.

Urmi:

that. So for them it was a learning opportunity because they were like, oh my gosh, there's from us. Let's get to know her. And, and when I was going to school, I was the only one who was not looking like the rest. Like there were not that many immigrant people. I was

Sanika:

Yeah, I know, and that can be really isolating. This reminds me of a story when, again, when I was in corporate, um, this woman I used to work with, her name was Victoria, and she was from Russia, and she migrated to New York from Russia with her husband and her children were really small at the time, and they had what I would think is a regular, you know. Elementary school day show. Right, because that's in New York. Your children, they're gonna go on school trips. They're gonna have shows, they're, it's going to be a full experience. I remember she went to the school and came into the office after the show and she was a bit emotional, so I was like, Victoria, are you okay? What happened? Did it go well? Did your son do well? And she goes, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. She said that it was the celebration of us, and I don't know if they still do this, but. The show, essentially, each child has to go up on stage and with your native flag, and you go up on stage and you say, I am great because I am from Russia. And in Russia we do X, Y, and Z. And then the next person comes up. I'm great'cause I'm from Ghana and in Ghana and then they all come together and they sing a song about how beautiful our class is because we have the whole world in one space.. And she was so emotional about it.'cause she said in Russia, there's nothing like this. We don't, there's no difference. There's no celebrating different cultures. There's not even celebrating if you look different. Right. And I remember saying to her, and again, it was for me, it was one of those transformative moments that showed me like, wow, I do live a privileged life by growing up in New York. Like I didn't, you know, you don't realize these things because. You live here. Um, and I remember how moved she was by the ceremony and she was like, have you ever heard of anything like this? I was like, yes, I did it multiple times. You have to do it in every grade. Because in New York, because people move so much, and your zone school might not be your zone school, you might not have the same friends you had in first grade, in second grade or third grade. So every year it is something that we did. So she was so moved by it and. So surprised that this was something that was part of the normal New York culture to celebrate the differences of every single student in the room and celebrate the global holidays and every religion and practice that there was that existed in the classroom.

Urmi:

it I agree with you. And, um, well, this is one thing I noticed about Canada. Like I, I don't know now how it works in school, but one thing that happens in, uh, in the summer, especially Montreal, which is so multicultural as well, is that they have. Festivals. So for instance, couple of weeks ago it was the Italian festival and then they have the Asian festival. So basically they celebrate each community doing festivals, food festivals, or doing you know, activities. And I realized that even Montreal is also very much like New York. Like there's so much around the city and people celebrate each community and that's very beautiful because you know you are. Not forcing people to become like you. You're just celebrating where they come from and you want them to celebrate that because then you get to learn a little bit about the other culture. So I also noticed that they do that in Montreal during like festivals in the summer. And it's very, it's very nice'cause you get to like,

Sanika:

Yes.

Urmi:

foods. You get to see the different things. They, they, they, uh, celebrate. It's

Sanika:

And that is the beauty of a defined definition of being transformative, right? Because I think often we, we, the perception is that in order to be transformed or transformed into a different phase and season in your life, you need to leave behind who you are. You need to leave behind your own religion, your own beliefs, your own culture, and that's not really what being amongst a transformative group of people is. It's not what it means to be transformative in your life. Right. It means evolve and add on different layers of who you are by surrounding yourself by different, with different people. Open yourself up to new opportunities. Right? You knew like we, like many of our immigrant parents taught us, we were told that the only ways to success and happiness was lawyer, doctor, engineer, but we. Took those foundations and added a transformative layer to it. We opened ourself up to what creativity and happiness can bring us, and we transformed it into the way we live now, which is not foregoing right. What they've taught us because it's, they, they taught us only what they knew, it's transforming that definition.

Urmi:

Yeah. them at the same time, you know, like they only knew that

Sanika:

Yes.

Urmi:

and they taught us this one thing and they want us to carry forward But I think it's about embracing the different aspect of life and transforming them. I think also going back to this whole, you know, about diversity and celebrating diversity, some communities are not open to that. You know, they just wanna preserve, their own culture, their own traditions. But I think it's about really embracing that, bringing a little bit from different worlds and creating another, merging them and creating a different, fusion of it. And also that's part of like transformation and evolution.

Sanika:

I agree. What's most important is people to understand. That collaboration does not kill preservation. It actually amplifies preservation. It actually makes you preserve culture a little deeper and longer. So it's really, as we were talking about earlier, stepping into that fear. And not trying to step away from it, because the fear is that if I open up my culture and I tell them about my traditions and I tell them about Bangladesh, they're going to judge it. They're gonna try to change it. They're gonna try to move it. What you don't realize is. That's the fear that's holding us back, right? If I could have said that I'm coming on this podcast and I'm just gonna be corporate sonika, I'm not gonna talk about my Jamaican roots. I'm not gonna talk about being a mom in, in my mind to preserve the perception of what people have of me, right? To compartmentalize who I am. But all that is limiting people's opportunity to know who I am in my

Urmi:

agree with you. And you showing up to the world like your truest self know, you being honest to yourself, you know, you don't wanna like try to fit in, you don't wanna play a role. know, you don't wanna perform a role because you think about this other person's perception of what they will think.'cause then you're lying to yourself, you know? And I think if you really stand for yourself, you should be telling your story. You should be telling about your roots. You should be telling about the language that you speak. What should eat, how you do it.'cause I used to be a little bit like that to that. I used to walk away and not. Share everything about culture. So one thing I can, like, I can, I can give you a very simple example. Like in the Bengali culture, we eat out with our hands. We'd eat with our hands. And I remember one day, one of my friends making a comment and saying, oh my gosh, did you see these people eat with their hands? And so I never told her that we also do that, but now that I am much older, I think about it and be like, why didn't I, why did I not tell her this? I want her to be educated about this. And then guess what? Other cultures to eat with their hands. It's

Sanika:

Yes.

Urmi:

you know? Like you have to be open about it. to. Not shy. Shy away from it. I try not to walk away. Walk away from it.'cause I wanna be honest about my identity, about myself, about my tradition, my culture, and I don't wanna lie about it to other people because I'm worried about what they would think. I'm not responsible about people's opinions.

Sanika:

You definitely are not, and also understanding that in order for us to want a more unified. Community, right? Amongst the world, across the globe. We have to be willing to transform how we think today for tomorrow because it's so limiting for you to feel like, oh, because someone eats with their hands, they, ugh. That is so atrocious. You don't even know how far that culture and that lineage come from and instead of you being more curious. Right. And the beauty of this conversation is encouraging people to lean into their fears. About being transformed in how you see people and how you see your life and what it means to have a transformative moment and find those transformative moments in your everyday life. If, if. If you're Spanish and all you do is eat Spanish food, I'm, I'm, I'm going to ask you tomorrow to go find an African place to eat. Find a Caribbean place to eat. You know, open yourself up to different cultures, because preservation comes with collaboration. It is the only way.

Urmi:

There is self transformation, but there is also transforming other people, which is a little bit what you said. You know, like when you tell this other friend, oh, go and try this other thing. You're also transforming. Another person. You're also helping the other person to in new potentials and learning about different things and discovering different things.'cause otherwise we're all gonna be in our bubble, you know? And I always say you have to be comfortable with uncomfortable. That's also part of the

Sanika:

Yes, you definitely do. And not leaning away from it. Because often we are so comfortable in our own culture, in our own spaces, in our own family, in our own, you know, the predictability of it all. Right, so we don't, no one wants to be rejected or feel like, I don't know how to eat this food. I don't know how to use chopsticks. I don't know how, like you understand what I mean? But it's giving yourself grace and understanding that everyone doesn't know girl at one point. We all are sitting there trying to figure out how to use these chopsticks. At some point. We're all trying to get the Foo Fu and put it like it's. It's such an amazing experience to me to be a child in these situations.

Urmi:

agree Lovely. Yeah.

Sanika:

Listen, Rumi, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast and joining me on this conversation, and I would love for the audience to just stay connected with you. So tell us more about your podcast and where we can find you.

Urmi:

Stories Beyond Borders Podcast. It's available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and there's also an Instagram page and if the people wanna connect, connect with with me in other platforms, I have a LinkedIn profile called ign, my YouTube channel called Al Sign, and if people wanna get my book, it's available on

Sanika:

Awesome. Thank you so much for this conversation, and this is, how do you define transformative?