How do you divine?

ADAPT| Embracing Change: How it Fuels Progress with Dr. Oluwole Babatunde MD

• How do you divine? • Season 3 • Episode 27

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In this episode of 'How Do You Divine,' we sit down with Dr. Wole Babatunde MD, a psychiatric physician and public health expert, to explore the concept of adapting and advancing through life's challenges. From his migration story and overcoming personal trauma, to his journey in becoming a physician in the U.S., Dr. Psyche shares invaluable insights on the power of adaptability. Learn about the importance of mental health, the stigma around psychiatric care, and essential tools to navigate life's difficult seasons. Tune in for an enlightening conversation on how to adapt for personal growth and well-being.


Please continue to support Dr. Oluwole Babatunde MD by purchasing his book https://www.amazon.com/Adapt-Advance-Faith-Based-Step-Step-ebook/dp/B0F8L8GHYM?ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1&psc=1

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Thank you for listening and for adding new dimensions to your definitions. Keep growing, keep exploring, and keep defining life on your terms.


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As the host of How Do You Divine?, she invites listeners to redefine meaning, embrace transformation, and navigate life—one word at a time. Her mi...

Sanika:

welcome to this episode of How Do You Divine, where we explore the words that drive our lives and how it compliments our conflict with our spirituality. Today I have the honor of speaking with Dr. Wa. Baba

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Psyche

Sanika:

psychiatric physician, public health expert, and researcher whose career embodies what it means to adapt

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Perfect

Sanika:

with purpose in medicine, leadership, and in life.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

much, Ika, for having me today. I'm excited to be here today and thanks for the warm introduction.

Sanika:

Absolutely.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

so much.

Sanika:

Thank you so much for being here. I feel like you have adapted in life in various seasons, right from your migration story to becoming a physician and also overcoming

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

drama and

Sanika:

and.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

grief

Sanika:

Grief and heartbreak in various aspects of your life.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

before

Sanika:

before we get

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

all

Sanika:

into all your research and your expertise, can you please give the audience a little bit about Wale,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

from.

Sanika:

where you from

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

we

Sanika:

and where we find you today?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Thank you so much. That's a good way to start. I'm grateful that I'm where I am today. My name is Wally, born in Nigeria. some thousands of masks away, I believe from the us. grew up from humble beginnings. Had some very traumatic childhood experiences, which we're going to talk more about later. The loss of my mom when I was seven. The loss of my dad when I was 13, after that happened in Nigeria. It was a big struggle complete high school to college, but somehow with, a lot of grace to adapt and to advance, I was able to get through medical school in Nigeria. Walked a little bit in Nigeria. Then I saw the need to transition to the United States in 2014, to learn more. I love to learn to read. And I came in for my PhD in Epidemiology, university of South Carolina in Columbia, South Carolina, completed that. Two big goals I had while coming to the US was to finish my PhD for help me with research. And then secondly is to do my residency in psychiatry, born out of Brazil for the things that I have experienced with my life growing up. And I just felt I wanted to do psychiatry in the US where I will have the opportunity, to touch people uniquely. And compassion because of, I've been through with my life, so to do residency, four years, completed June this year. And I'm happy to say that I'm a psychiatrist in the US today and I see patients regularly and I'm able to help as much as I, have the grace to be able to help them.

Sanika:

Nice. And just your ability to adapt in these various environments, right? Different countries, different levels of education and challenges to become, a physician today.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I'm gonna ask you

Sanika:

I'm gonna ask, the first question is why,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

why?

Sanika:

why psychiatric, versus other disciplines in medicine? Why did you, is it your trauma that drew you to psychiatric, medicine? Why, why that, that line?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

a wonderful question I've had people ask me this question multiple times, and I remember when I interviewed for residents in psychiatry. It's one of the main questions in all of the interviews I had. It's one of the questions, that everywhere I interviewed the can white psychiatry, we see your background from Nigeria, your physician, you did community medicine in Nigeria, and why psychiatry at this point? So it's a question I've had to answer many times. My main motivation for psychiatry is, I tell people, psychiatry of all the divisions of medicine or the various, kinds of medicine people practice, I strongly believe psychiatry is the one where you get to hear people's problems the most, and where you could be able to provide. A lot of compassion to them empathy. Not that you can't, of course every other aspect of medicine can

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

that, but psychiatry is unique because most of our disorders are really, are typically, there's always one big stressor that usually pushes it. At times we have patients going through divorce and you know, that just shatters their world. And you know, the times we become depressed at times, we have patients going through very tough financial situations and difficulties, and I push them to drugs and the drugs push them to other things. So those are the kind of things that, I. Since part of my background in medicine, my, the trauma I experienced as a child, I felt it's a, it's a great thing for me to be able to and hear about the trauma we go through and I can empathically, understand and be able to provide compassionate care there.

Sanika:

What do you think is one of the misconceptions about psychiatric physicians versus therapists?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Generally, there's a lot of stigma surrounding psychiatric care even both for patients and for we that care for them. the reason being, you know, people feel, you know, because it has to do with people's mind. And you know, at times we deal with very serious mental illnesses. Although I tell people like. Maybe half of our patients, or even more than that, don't have very serious mental illness, like schizophrenia or somebody like, so people easily attribute stigma. To heat,

Sanika:

Hmm.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

and the same way it is has been stigmatized in the general population for people with doctors. Also experience the stigma too. You know, they feel we are a bit weird and because we are dealing with people that are struggling or maybe, you know, with mental health illnesses, but that's not the case. Most of the people that we treat in psychiatry are, you know. Normal human beings that go to normal job, live normal life. So it's not like, of course we have those very sick people that might, that might fit that category of like

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

very sick and, you know, uh, but like every specialty. I honestly, I would think just picking up a number, maybe up to 90% are, you know, they're just people like you and I like, yeah, they, they're just

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

stressors. Maybe they're just depressed. They have some anxiety. They have some P ts D in their lives. You know, it's making it difficult for them to function at the best that they can. So I think that's the main reason why there's a lot of stigma. People feel that psychiatry is a worst but it is not, you know, and we try to normalize and let people know it's okay not to be okay. All you need to do is seek help in the right place. you know, we are hearing voices, for example, that are not there, or seeing things that are not there. Whatever I teach that people are experiencing, we want them, or maybe we are feeling suicidal. You know, at times people feel like killing themselves. You know, those are things we deal with all the time. You know, we tell people to seek help. Pick up your phone and call. You know, we have the hotline numbers. Or worst case, you call 9 1 1. They will direct you to the right place on 9 8, 8, the suicide outline numbers. Call a friend, tell family members so that you know you can get the help you need. Don't bottle it off. So it's every time I have the

Sanika:

Oh,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I want to educate people. Like when you have those weird thoughts, don't think that you are just weird. You can call for help and maybe one of us will be available to help

Sanika:

can help you. Yes.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I think

Sanika:

I think many people try to adapt to that sense of normalcy that you talked about, right? Where they're normal people like you and I, but some of those challenges aren't, you know, they don't wear them, right? They're not forthcoming. They're kind of hiding them and pushing them down. How have you adapted from trying to. Have people be more open to the concept of seeking psychiatric help versus therapy? Or do you get referrals from therapy? How do you adapt to that changing landscape? Because like you said before, as a society, we're becoming more and more acceptable to therapy being a normal thing to do. Just like you go and, get your teeth cleaned every six months, every four months.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

have,

Sanika:

should probably check in with the therapist just to make sure you're well, just like we would if, you know, we broke our arm, we would go to the doctor. Do you see, a change in the landscape where people are adapting more to, let's just say, leaning into therapy and you are referred from there or leaning right into psychiatric assistant?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Actually therapy works hand in hand with, psychiatric psychiatrist because, primarily a psychiatrist. Is trained to help you by providing medications that can help either with depression, anxieties, schizophrenia, bipolar, PTSD and all of that. So we are trained to help you by providing medication. A therapist is trained to talk through and give you coping skills. Both of them are equally important, especially for example, in the landscape of depression. There's a lot of evidence that when patients. both. Uh, taking of medications, let's say on the left hand and on the right hand, seeing a therapist. When a patient combines both specifically for depression, there's a lot of science that tells us that they do better than only medication or only therapy. So eventually a therapist and a psychiatrist work hand in hand. And where I work, for example, you know, see the patients every day. Therapist also see them every day. So because of inpatient. So it's important to have both of that. And we tell patients, in fact, we are also trained, in some therapeutic skills so that because somebody tells you they have a lot of trauma, you just tell them, take this pill. You must also be able to use some of your therapeutic skills, which is the non-medical aspect. To empathize with them and to do a little bit. We trained in a little bit of CBT cognitive behavioral therapy or maybe acceptance and commitment therapy, or even just supportive, just supporting them and telling them it's going to be okay. And you've been through some things in the past and reaching forth back to them, you can also get through this one. So we are also trained in therapy to be able to use a little bit of it. So if we have 30 minutes encounter with a patient. could just do therapy in two or three or five minutes, just a little bit, to make the patient feel hard and to also empower them with coping skills that is different from medications. So ideally, therapy and psychiatrist work hand in hand to give a patient the best, and that what I have, and I'm thanks to everybody listening here, that. If you really need help, you can start with therapy alone. At times. Therapy alone might just be okay depending on the level of what you are dealing with. But if you need medication help, is no harm in seeking both therapy and also seeking a psychiatric care. But some of the stressor we

Sanika:

I love.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

deal with, therapy is just fine. We all need a little bit of it.

Sanika:

Yes. No, I love the way you outline that, because it speaks to that fair aspect.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

how

Sanika:

How do you adapt to someone's fear of being medicated?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

The biggest thing for us that we do every single day is at every time we educate people, like I said, there's a lot of misconception, there's a lot of stigma and people come into you with all of those thoughts. There's some misconception about that specific diagnosis and some of our disorders are loosely used in society to mean different things, you know, so people come with all of this misconception one thing we can do to adapt to them is to give some level of education and tell them, this is what we think we are going through and this is why we are thinking, we are going through this. We also, one thing we always do in adapting to their situation is let them know they are unique situation. And let them know the role that medications can play. also know the role that therapy also, can play. So they all play separate roles. And so educating patients and even letting them know, I used calling it a three-legged too. So we have medication, we have therapy, we also have lifestyle. There are some things the patients who can do that is lifestyle that impacts mental health a lot. for example, you know. Cool analogy. Come on.

Sanika:

Come on.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

you know, that's what I tell, and I always tell patient we have to do the three medication, therapy and lifestyle. Lifestyle comes talking about med. Exercise for example, is one lifestyle thing that you can do. a lot of science that if personally experiencing depression, even just getting up and moving, 30 minutes every day or jogging or whatever you are able to do, just keeping it moving could go a long way to even get you out of the depression. For example, in the inpatient where I work, I tell patients, if you are here and the old day you are lying down in bed, how do you want to get better? with the medication and with therapy, you know, you've got to get up, go to group sessions, go to other places, you know, move around, you know, get puzzles, get books and read and you know, there are just so many things we can do, There are some people that are so sick. They just can't even get up

Sanika:

Hmm.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

It's possible, you know,

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

the mental disorder could make it so crippling and so hard, or even impossible in some cases. Like some people, we have catatonia where even they might not even move. They might not even eat for days. That's different. There are ways to manage that one, but 90% of the time people are not that sick. So we tell them, get up. you can still get up on your own. You can still move around, you can still go to group sessions, you can talk to people, stuff like that. So all of that is part of the adapting process that all of us have to keep, you know, doing to adapt to the situations that we have at times. People just don't know that some of these little things to matter. To help them get over whatever mental health disorders they might have. I'm not saying that's the only thing that works, but definitely it's one of the three key things that I would always recommend every single patient, exercise, diet, you know, taking good decisions for yourself.

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Using substances could cause a lot of problem for some people, before you get to a point where impossible for you to control it. At times, just taking a good decision could be helpful.

Sanika:

Oh, I love that. And one of the key things that we talked about was this concept that people have that you must accept before you can adapt.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

and that's

Sanika:

Right, and that's why I wanted us to explore the importance of adapting. We're slow to adapt because we feel there's a requirement of us accepting our situation first.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

and

Sanika:

Right, and what I've come to learn is that acceptance is not necessarily a requirement. It is what it is.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Be nice.

Sanika:

it would be nice if it's on the train,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Sanika:

know, it would be nice.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I do

Sanika:

But I do feel the importance

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

for

Sanika:

for individuals to adapt to their current season of life in order to. Elevate or even progress, right? Sometimes the goal is to just put one foot in front of the other. The goal is just to make it to through the month or even through the day. So talk to me about how you came to write the book and do your research around the importance to adapt to advance.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Yeah. So adapting the way I look at it, I talk about a lot in my book, adapt in Advance. I see it as a way and like knowing that if there's a difficult situation, understand that this is difficult. Situation we all go through tough seasons. At one phase or the other of our lives, and honestly, maybe multiple times in our lifetime, if you live long enough, you will experience things that you really don't like they will always come. So when we experience those things, we need to understand that the reality of it, this is a difficult situation, is not what I expect, you know? Nobody, for example, to believe that generally no. Well-meaning person goes into a marriage because they want to divorce very soon, or no? Well-meaning person goes to a

Sanika:

Talk about it.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

they want to go and fail exams, you know? Well-meaning person wants to have money so that they can lose it. For the most part, for most of us. So, but when some of these things happen, whether it's a divorce is failing an exam or going through very difficult, challenging bit. That when go way with the other, it's unique for everybody. Adapting means you understand that this is a difficult situation, but I will not let this situation define me in a negative way. Advancing is moving forward despite those difficult situation. So in the book, I talked about my own personal life. Since I've been a child, I've always adapted and advanced and make progress. The whole idea is, you know, when I lost my mother, when I was seven years old, lost my father when I was, 13 years old. I, I have to take a decision at that point that I would not let these negative things my future. I will not let. I don't want to get to the end of my life when, whenever that is and look back. And all that I could say is because his mother died at seven and his father died at 13. Unfortunately, his life was grounded to a stop and he could not make progress. So I have to tell myself, I've got to figure out a way to adapt to this situation, and I've got to figure out a way. Although I never really solved the problem at any time, so you can't solve, you can't bring a dead person back. I never got to really solve the problem, like the way I would've preferred it to be solved. And of course there were many days I cried. I wish they could come back enough. Every time I did, they were to come back. So I had to find a way to like, okay, they're not back. And I'm, I have to deal with the financial fallout, for example. I always tell people where people lost. When there are losses of family members, maybe people lose their prayer. I always tell them the bigger loss is even not the bigger pain. The pain you feel when they told you or when it happened. The bigger pain is your everyday life where the road those people played, it becomes like a vacuum. you wake up, you need to pay school fees. And you realize, who do I go to talk to now about this? They provide you food, they provide you protection, they provide you shelter. When you wake up many days and you realize, wow, you know, it's not like it used to be when I had this person. So it it, I always tell them, the real pain is coming, don't waste all your emotional energy.

Sanika:

don't crash out as they say,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

yes. It's like B buckle buckle up for the difficult days I had, which will be a fallout of the same way with every other things that we experience. You know, there are consequences to things that happened to us, so some consequences you would deal with it day, you know, but you have to not make a decision. Do I want this to stop me from making progress in every other area of my life? Or do I want to make sure that with this pain in my life keeps coming every single day, I remember my parents every single day. I remember the financial difficulty. I'm going through all the unemployment. Will I allow that to be the defining thing in my life or. Do I want to rewrite my story like one of the things I wrote in my book is, story is being rewritten every day and you owe the pain. Your story is being rewritten every day and the pain is in your hand. So you've got to tell yourself,

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

the pain in my hand, some things have happened, which maybe I didn't have a choice. They happen you know, there's little I can do about it. But this pain in my

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

and I will rewrite it to fit what I really believe is my purpose in life. So if you understand that you also owe the pain, you realize that the pain and the problem, cannot stop you from adapting and advancing and making progress. That does not mean the pain has gone away on represent. In fact, there will be newer ones, so as we continue,

Sanika:

Your old problem will evolve to a new problem.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

The more you solve a problem, newer ones will come up. You know, that's our life if we tend to really look carefully. Not being pessimistic. I'm a very optimistic person, but I also know

Sanika:

I like how you're saying it in terms of like the ability to adapt to the scenario as it sits. Right. And just also being ready. For problems to expand as well as them diminishing. I like the way that you say that, that it is always being rewritten and tomorrow could be a great day and the day after that could be a worst day. But I like this. I like the way you're framing it today's pain is bad. Right. Today's pain is hard. That's not what you're saying, that it's, you're not saying it's not hard. But what you're saying is that you have the ability to,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

rewrite

Sanika:

diminish

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

mmwr.

Sanika:

and rewrite it as things move forward. How did you get to a scenario where you're saying don't worry about accepting, adapt to where you are right now. And as someone who loves a deadline, I'm deadline oriented. I like things to flow and have a system. Do you think it is healthy? Look at me trying to get a little side, side work on side.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

do you

Sanika:

but do you think it's healthy for people to put timelines to what it means to adapt? Opening up this conversation, I wanted our audience to be aware of what it means to adapt mentally and emotionally, but also what are the tools.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

can use,

Sanika:

That they can give themselves. I love the three legged stool that we talked about already, but Have people that overthink and that get paralyzed with procrastination.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

yeah.

Sanika:

So tell me when you are, saying as an expert and a physician

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

it

Sanika:

should it be time oriented? Should it be situation, specific? Is there any general recommendations you can make?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

yeah. So in terms of timeline, I would say, to some extent it's good, but also some extent can be damaging. we need to find the right balance, for timeline. And, but I would say the word balance is very, very important. We need to find in everything that we do. Balance in terms of being flexible too. You can have. A timeline. For example, I want to be a doctor at of time. You know, I want to pass this exam. Like when I came to the US I had everything outlined. You know, like, I'm going to do PhD, five years, going to do residency, so, so forth. I didn't it exactly according to,

Sanika:

Nigerian, you just, you gotta own your culture. It is very Nigerian view.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

well, I didn't achieve it exactly. For example, I think I wrote my PhD was going to be done in three years. Eventually I did five years, but of course. knew why I did five years and this was for a good reason.

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

was going to do residency after that, but there was a two years postdoc, which I don't think I really planned for, which I did in between then. So I was still flexible enough to know that, although I couldn't meet it exactly as planned, I still met it maybe three or four years later, and I'm okay with that. The same way. For

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

my book. It's always been a dream in my heart. I didn't even know at the point, I didn't even know where to put it into my life. It was just not possible. But when the time came like a spark, I knew this was the time to do it last year, and I was able to commit the last seven, eight months of my residency. I could add it on to the other things I was doing without one affecting the other negatively. So is something I would say is very important. And even in psychotherapy, in psychiatry, some of the reasons some people end up with psychiatry disorders is because of their inability to be flexible. So people are

Sanika:

Ooh,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

and, you know, there are,

Sanika:

rigid.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

there are some personality disorders that are, that fit more into that box. They just have to do things certain ways. If you don't do it certain ways, it's going to create interpersonal problems for them. They're going to fight their spouses, fight their children, and everybody, because the house has to just be clean this way. This has to be done this time and all of that, but it's okay. You know, we are different. for such people, they need to understand that they need to work on. into their life so that they don't like frustrate everybody around them and also frustrate themselves

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

but of course we need some of it too. It's not like to say everybody should just leave their life anyhow without any timeline and anything, otherwise nothing will be done. So, but we need to find that treat fault of balance. Where we are able to set goals, but at the same time know when some goals are never going to be achieved. There are some goals you might have that might just not be in us to achieve. Might be your children that will achieve it and might be nobody will ever achieve it.

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

enough to be able to take a U-turn if we have to, or move to the right a little bit if we have to, or move to the left a little bit if we have to. All of that's important to a good and a balance, that would be the word for that. And I would say flexibility. Very, very important. I set goals every week, every month, every year. But of course I change them as events unfold, so

Sanika:

Be okay with moving the goalposts essentially. Yes.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

yes.

Sanika:

That's good. So given your background in medicine, public health and research, have you had to adapt your approach when addressing global health disparities versus local community level health needs? Have you had to adapt?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

definitely, uh, I would say. is just compulsory. Just compulsory and, you know, making progress in everything, that we do. For example, one example that comes to my mind, very readily, like I just told you for example, my PhD was I was desiring to make it three years. but I also wanted to get an NIH grant. It's an experience I dreamt of before coming to the us. So it's one of the things I wanted to experience during my PhD, and there was this grant called, F 99 slash K zero zero, which was the transition grant from PhD to postdoc. and you can only submitted in your third year, and then if it's funded, you can experience it in your 40 year and 50 year. So that makes the four and year five compulsory. if I had not gotten it, maybe I would have graduated earlier, but I applied, I was successful. It was funded, so that made year four and year five necessary. So that an example of adapting to a situation. so I had to create time to do the work, and they also create time to finish the PhD aspect and also create time to finish the postdoc aspect. also gave me the opportunity to slow down, take a step back, and to do my board exams that I needed to get him to residency in psychiatry later. eventually, everything worked out for good. And I was able to get a grant, finish the two years PhD, two years postdoc, and then four years residency. eventually things tied up and things made things. So that's one big example of me adapting to a situation, something I wanted but wasn't going to happen the way I originally wanted. research is something you have to keep adapting all the time. publishing your papers can be so tough. I remember the very first paper I worked on in the US for my PhD. I submitted it like five or six time before, eventually journals before it got published. So if you are not adapting or they give you recommendations, they tell you you can do this way, this is the better way to improve it. You've got to sit down again, work on it, adapt it, move it to the next journal again, and all of you have to keep doing that. there are some, you get lucky, you submit once and you get published within a short time. There are some you have to keep working on and keep working on, but you know what they are trying to do is help you improve it, help you improve the science. And help you to come out with whatever is best, for you and your findings. so at the end of the day, it all works well, but it's not easy It's not easy going through those situations and going through those circumstances, but if you take a step back and you're like, what can I do differently to adapt? to advance in this situation where I found myself. Then there will always be ideas of what you can do to things moving forward.

Sanika:

Yeah,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Yeah.

Sanika:

We've known how you adapt to complete your. PhD but how do you have to adapt to patients from africa to America? Right. You're in the south, Was that transition, from vocabulary to approach to practice, was that difficult to adapt to?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Not completely, but of course there were a few challenges on the way as usual. like I always tell people, you know, coming to the us in Nigeria, we went to school in English. So English wasn't a problem for me at all. You know, elementary, middle, high school, college, everything in Nigeria was in English. We still had our languages, like my, I'm Yoruba, we had our languages, but at the same time, all of everything we. Went to school and was English. So it was easy. So I thought the English I understood would make things very communication wise, easy. But I realized in the US it's not just speaking English, but you know, you might be speaking English and they will know what you're saying because of the accent and the differences in that. So that was something I had to quickly, had to get used to dealing with. And so I had to look for creative ways. if you notice when I talk, I try to escalate a lot, you know, so that people can pick. Use both my body language and also what I say, to pick. So I think I did more of that. Another way I think I also adapted well was. use words that are easy to pick and will not be misunderstood. for example, I want to

Sanika:

Hmm.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

about what you do as your job, I would say, what job do you do? I wouldn't say, what work do you do?

Sanika:

Yes,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Work could mean many things, so I quickly had to figure out the I will speak that people can easily know what I'm saying.

Sanika:

yes.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

be figured out. Those are things which in maybe an America might not worry about, but for,

Sanika:

No, but I love, I love that you're open to that, that journey of adapting for your patients, right? I think sometimes when we come into different situations, like even this conversation or any conversation with a stranger on the street, we have this. Subconscious sense of

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I am.

Sanika:

is who I am. This is who I am. You get what you get. and I love that in this conversation, we're just amplifying, highlighting the importance of your ability to adapt to your environment. Right? It's so important because sometimes the things that we're going through both mentally and emotionally is because we won't adapt.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Agreed.

Sanika:

Is because we are

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I,

Sanika:

As people, we often get stuck in certain seasons of our lives, and while time has progressed and people around us has progressed and kind of move forward, we're still stuck in this situation and not adapting to where we are in that season of our life, both from an environmental standpoint, I have an accent and I'm accustomed to transitioning because I occupy various spaces. I would think that the way I'm speaking now is an accent, right? It's a lot clearer. It's a lot slower. It's, and then when I'm in Atlanta, they're like, oh, you talk like you from up north. Like, you know, everyone has an accent to a certain extent, but I want us to be clear that it's not just about vocabulary and communication, it's about adapting to your environment, the way in which you progress. Like you said earlier around. Being mentally and open to flexibility

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

That's a word.

Sanika:

Adapting to your sit situation. That could be in your professional life, in your personal life, on any goal and journey. And then I love that we're talking about this because as we adapt to, you know, we live in unprecedented times for many different reasons as well as. Coming from more unprecedented times with the pandemic, like everything about this is not normal. And I think we chase this sense of normalcy because familiarity comforts us. Let's be for real, right? This is what's gonna happen when I go here, it's comforting, right?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

unfortunately it

Sanika:

we can get stuck

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

we're,

Sanika:

because we are searching for what is familiar and not necessarily take into account what we're losing for familiarity. How do you address that in your practice? Do you see people regressing because they're searching for what is more familiar versus what is best for them?

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

I think that's nature. You just describe what Iman nature is for that generally, except you do something specifically. the natural tendency of all of us is to. with what is familiar, and that could be crippling and could make it really difficult for us to adapt and advance in life. For example, when I was living Nigeria, one of the things some of my, senior colleagues me was like, you know, I'm going to an unfamiliar terrain, you know, and some of them try to discourage me, which is okay, I understand where they're coming from and I understand the mean well. But at the same time, I also understand that there are some things in me, which. I need to be in this environment to be able to pull out and to be able to do the best way I would really want it done. for my PhD, things I needed to learn, which I may not easily find around locally, back home. so I think it's just normal. People tend to, we all want to stay in our comfort zones, you know, if I can use that word. And nobody really

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

out into the unknown. It is scary. To go into your unknown at times. But if we are going to really adapt and advance, we must be willing at times, you know, to test the waters and, you know,

Sanika:

Yep.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

out of our comfort zones, And that's where I talk about learning too. I read books, one book every week. Learn new things. Step into new things and from the things you are learning, take new steps. of course be well informed, not just take new steps blindly. when I was coming to the US I made calls regularly to people I know, people I don't know, asking questions, and I was taking notes. I still have the notebook with me, now. So I came prepared and I understood what I was walking into. I knew, I would say 80% to 90% of questions answered on how things can go. if I meet this challenge, what do I do? What's the next step? Fine. I didn't get all questions answered, but I got enough answered to help me take that leap of faith. to move knowing that things will be okay, things will be all right. But of course, was it all easy? No. there were a lot of challenges, but if I stayed back in Nigeria too, there will have been a different kind of challenge, I'm sure.

Sanika:

Yes. So that, that's what I'm saying. I feel like comfort can be reassuring, but it can also be a prison. And I wanted us to explore the concept of adapting,

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Not just on

Sanika:

not just in your professional life, but your personal life.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

That

Sanika:

That the ability and the desire to adapt will help you progress. And progression doesn't necessarily have to be upward, right? It can just be linear, but I feel like people, we cannot identify what makes us happy in this season or makes us feel whole and makes us feel well.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

if

Sanika:

If we are unwilling to adapt, forget, accept, forget what that is. Right? Because it's like you said, you've had such a long, traumatic journey that has put you in such a great place where you are now serving other people and helping them through their traumatic experiences. But one of the key aspects of how you've done that is by adapting to every season of your life.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

Not letting

Sanika:

Not letting go of what happened, not actually accepting it. Right? Grief is hard, but the ability to adapt. So give me some tools that you think, could help our audience adapt to this season in their life.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

So I would now summarize, the seven big tools I have in my book. number one is meaning making. so when we go through traumatic situations or have challenging times, we should be able to make meaning. and I use Viktor Frankl's book on mans search for meaning to come up with three main ways to make meaning. One is by serving other people. No matter what you're going through, we have the mind to serve others. You realize that by helping others, you're helping yourself. The second one is experiencing something or someone, it could be experiencing music, it could be experiencing somebody you love, whatever it is that you, that experience helps you to make meaning of the things that you are going through. And the third way, according to Viktor Frankl is our attitude towards the problem.

Sanika:

Hmm.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

of those that was in the concentration campaign. One of the things he said was. Even right in there with all the pain and suffering, you know, we still made time to enjoy the moon. You know, everybody still sees the moan in the sky at the night. It is not so, it is, it, it's, it's an attitude towards the problem. Very important and that is very key. No matter what we are going through. Understand that this pain has not come to stop you. This campaign, you interpret. pain as preparation, not punishment. That's the way I look at it. Whatever circumstance that you have in your life that is traumatic and painful is preparing you for something bigger that is the best attitude to have, you know, towards it. And the big that you will know that there's another season after this one that is coming that is gonna be better and that this will all make sense at the end. So those are the ways not to look at things, when we are going through them. And then a is action, which, you know, we talked a little bit about this. When I say even for psych patients, we tell them exercise is important, it's healthy, diet is important. Always take one small action every day in the right. Direction of what you want for your life. It could be something small. It depends on what you're dealing with. You know, for some people, even getting up out of bed taking a 10 minute walk, maybe in your house around the street. Could just be all that you need to get through that day. For some people it can be as small as that, but if you are, you know, for some people your action could be apply first College. If you want to go to college, whatever you need to do school. Just be get up and go to go to your job, you know? At times you wake up, you don't even feel like getting out of bed. know, I

Sanika:

For real.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

at times, you know when they tell me You don't feel like at times I feel that way too. I wake up, I'm like, Hmm, I wish today was a break when I could just stay home, but I still get out of bed and come to work anyways because I know that work.

Sanika:

I

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

that

Sanika:

forward.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

So if all of us need to take actions, p is planning. We don't just achieve at a place we do not apply for. Like I told you for like two years before I came to the US I planned, I had these notebooks. I was calling friends that were in the US calling senior colleagues, asking them questions. Every question I have, I would write it down. I would call people, I would ask three, four, five people. I would get different responses. You know, I kept writing. I kept writing, so I was fully away. So plan, so that, you know, then I came in with my family. I'm like, if we all came in together, are we going to survive? Are we going to cope? What are the options? What are the strategies? What do people do? So planning is very important. L is learning, and this way I emphasize. book every month is what I encourage everybody to do. Look books that will stimulate you. If, for example, you are struggling in relationships, look for people who have succeeded in relationships. Read their books and see what they are teaching. You are struggling with academics or maybe finances. Get books. I have books. I read one every week. I listen on audio. It helps us to adapt to situations, and I've read so many stories of people that I know that I don't have a special problem. People have had worse things than this and they have

Sanika:

Oh

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

it.

Sanika:

That minimize anyone's pain.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

anybody's pain, but when you read other people's story of some things, some people go through to be where they are, it's, it's, it's just reassuring that. I know I might be going through something deep right now, but if x, y, Z could pass through this, like I'm reading, one of the books I'm reading now is Antonio, Tony Robbins book on Money Master the Game, and they, he detailed. How much poverty he had growing up and how, know, dysfunctional his parents family, he already lived in five. had like five different stepfathers growing up. Like it was very traumatic growing up and there was just so much poverty. But today's the bologna. So when I read stories like that, it assures me that no matter how bad things are. can turn it around.

Sanika:

Yeah.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

now, what did he do? What can I learn from him? What can I borrow from his story to add to my own life

Sanika:

Mm-hmm.

Wole (Oluwole) Babatunde:

far I can go. I may not necessarily be where he is because we have different purpose, but at the same time, can, at least the best I can be for myself. So learning very important, a alliance form mission. You can do live alone. That's why we are doing what we are doing now. I need you, you know, and I need many other people to get, to get to where I want to be in life. So you've got to work with other people. Then aim is mean. mission statement, I always tell everybody I have a simple mission statement. It could be something simple like to be a good mother

Sanika:

Amen. I love that. I love the framework, I love the tools. It gives you an outline of how to adapt, how to move forward. Right. And something that you said that I really, really enjoyed is the learning aspect. I deeply believe if I'm not growing, I'm dying. I'm a little sunflower. It is important for us to level the playing field. Community, be an alliance. Have people in your space and in your circle that don't all agree with you. You know that you all don't need to see the world the same way, but their insight will help you grow. I love this Wale. Thank you so much for this conversation. You continuously are doing research to help the mental and emotional wellbeing of our community. You are practicing deposition, thank you. So much for this time, for your knowledge, your expertise it's important for us to understand, you know, the three legged stool concept in our pursuit to be well human beings. And this is how do you divine adapt. Thank you.