How do you divine?
How Do You Divine?, a podcast that explores how each of us defines—and is defined by—the powerful words that guide our lives. Every episode focuses on a single word, inviting listeners to connect deeply by examining its meaning through the lens of personal experience, knowledge, and environment. We keep the conversation simple and impactful, amplifying the connections we all share.
How do you divine?
PIVOT: Your Job Title Is Not Your Skillset
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Most people hear pivot and think something went wrong. Andrea Wade thinks that's backwards.
Today's word is PIVOT. Not as a crisis, not as a retreat. As a design.
Andrea Wade is the founder of The Pivot Lab, where she helps experienced professionals navigate career transitions with confidence. Deloitte. Arthur Andersen. Mattel. Bank of America. Years as an agent at Creative Artists Agency before she built her own. Her path has never been straight, and that is the point.
We get into why a layoff feels like rejection when it usually has nothing to do with you. Why the outside world has no idea what your title means. What Andrea calls career insurance, and why you build it before you need it. Her four-part framework: reflect, research, reframe, relaunch. And the line that stopped the whole conversation, which is that you cannot be creative and dream if you are exhausted.
Andrea leaves you with one thing. Zero in on what you are curious about, and what you are nervous about. Then get closer to both.
00:00 Coming Up
00:24 Podcast Intro
00:56 Today's Word: PIVOT
03:34 What a Pivot Actually Means
04:32 The Layoff
08:15 Nervous Is Not the Same as Fearful
12:31 Your Job Title Is Not Your Skillset
17:24 Career Insurance
21:19 The Brilliant Women Who Want to Tap Out
29:44 Reflect, Research, Reframe, Relaunch
32:28 You Cannot Have It All At Once
35:09 Sunk Cost
45:14 You Cannot Dream If You Are Exhausted
46:42 One Thing Before You Pivot
48:13 Close Out
48:30 On the Next Show
New episode every Sunday.
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Meet the founder and host
Sanika is a founder, inventor, and strategist building at the intersection of culture, media, and technology. How Do You Divine?® is the anchor of HDV Media, a company built on one idea. The words we inherit quietly design the lives we lead.
Every episode takes one word and examines it through culture, intellect, emotion, and lived experience. Definitions that were handed to you. Definitions you adopted. Definitions you assumed were just normal.
New episode every Sunday.
We will lean into job titles.
Speaker 2Tray, you coming in hot. They love a job
Speakertitle. They, we love a job title, particularly. So I'm, I'm talking to my folks that have been in companies that they're feeling nice, they're sitting nice, that check is, is, is nice. Less
Speaker 3than
Speaker10, 10 plus- Yeah 15 years or something. Mm-hmm. You're like, "Oh, this place doesn't run without me." It does.
Speaker 3Curiosity and comfort is in a constant battle of who you are and where you wanna be. Exploring the definitions that was handed to us and the ones we've adopted, and the few we've assumed to be normal without question. Hi, my name is Sanika, and welcome to How Do You Divine?, where we explore the definitions that have
Speaker 4defined our life one word at a time. And on this journey, we, yes, you and I, collaborate at the intersection of culture, intellect, and spirituality.
Speaker 3Welcome to How Do You Divine?. I'm your host, Sanika. This is season four, Designed and Not Drifted, exploring what are we designing in the life that we desire versus drifting into what's happened to us. Every episode, we shake through one word. We turn it over slowly, but a little bit rough to see if that definition that we accepted is the one that fits today. Today, we talk pivot. Where most people hear a crisis, we are reframing it as a design. A pivot is not a retreat. It's a recalculation. Who gets to pivot? We also unpack that cultural weight. Who was taught to stay, and staying meant strength? Today, we talk to Andrea Wade. Andrea is a founder, chief brand manager of Diamond Brand Amplification, where she helps businesses and individuals sharpen how they show up for the audiences that matter the most. She also founded The Pivot Lab, a platform built to help experienced professionals navigate career transitions with confidence. And her path has never been straight And that's the point. She now helps people navigate in those pivotal moments most of us were taught to fear, the crossroads, the re-collaboration. Her own career is proof of concept. Consulting at Deloitte, Arthur Andersen, retail data at Mattel, multicultural marketing at Bank of America, the list goes on. Years of being an agent at the Creative Artists Agency, then she built her own. She holds a BA in international relations from Tufts, an MBA from UCLA. So I'm not saying she just walked the walk, she also has the credentials to talk the talk. She doesn't treat a pivot like a crisis. She treats it like it's a design. Andrea, welcome to How Do You Divine?
SpeakerWell, thank you. After all that, I think I have to pull you in as a publicist or something. And I'm like, so I appreciate that introduction-
Speaker 3Yes, no, you- and happy
Speakerto be
Speaker 3here yes, you are so welcome. Yeah. Yes. I feel like your journey is one that we can also admire and wanna sit on the passenger seat of. Mm-hmm. Right? Because through each and every pivot, I know there were so many lessons that you learned along the way. So first and foremost, when you hear pivot, what's one thing that stands out to Andrea?
SpeakerYeah. I, I like how you mentioned in, in the introduction that so many times people think, "Okay, pivot, something has gone wrong," or it's, it's a, it's a crisis or something. And I think pivots are opportunities. I mean, we have, as, as individuals, we have so many interests, um, and we go through so m- so many stages in our lives just with different transitions and everything. So I think pivot is what gives us the ability to make sure that everything is in sync- Yes with where we happen to be at that particular time.
Speaker 3Yeah, 'cause life happens. You change in every single season of life, but I think, especially as women, we feel like one has to stay stable in order- Mm-hmm for the other to thrive.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 3Right? Yeah. So just opening, you've built a body of work around helping people navigate major transitions. But I wanted to start with, what was one pivotal moment in your life that made you go, "Maybe it's time to make a switch"?
SpeakerYeah. And so, and I think what's, what's really timely right now, um, be- because actually, I look back at it now and I realize our lives are just a series of pivots. Um, but I think in the sense of what led to The Pivot Lab and, and, and how I'm focusing on things right now and just the time that we're in, where there's so much, um, transition just in the world of work, um, it was, it, it, it was a layoff.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerYou know? So, and, and I think, um, the first time that- Anyone experiences that. If, you know, some people never do- Mm-hmm and that's great. Um, but particularly when you've been raised to be so clear and focused and, and driven on one accomplishment and, and going from one goal to the next, one position to the next, or being promoted, um, and then when layoffs happen, which aren't necessarily tied to performance. Yeah. They're tied to the performance of the business and whatever management needs to do, but it still impacts you, uh, very personally. Yeah. And, and it can feel like a rejection. I have experienced a couple of, of layoffs due to different reasons. I was at a startup company that, that didn't, um, that, that didn't survive. Yeah. And like I was at one of the early e-commerce companies. Um, or another time, different management comes in, or just, just those things. So when... Again, I don't remember which time it was. I'd left a company. I'd left Deloitte- Mm to take a particular position, and maybe three months into it we got new management, um, for that department- Mm uh, who decided he wanted to make a change to the team. Um, and, and I was out. I- that, particularly because I'd left a job that I enjoyed. Yeah. I just wanted a, a, a different, a different challenge and, and that lack of control, um, they were just... I was like, "You know what? I will-" not be in this position again. Not meaning that I wouldn't be laid off- Be laid off again but just, just meaning that I am going to need to look at things differently, like either so that I anticipate it or so that I know. It's like, okay, this is-
Speaker 3Mm-hmm
Speakerthis, this is where I'm going. This is what I can do, either in the interim or, um, uh, on, on the way to my next thing. And, and, and I think that was it, that just that... If you talk to anyone who's been laid off, that, that lack of control that you have- Yeah and that fear that comes with that, that's where it's like, you know, I will always either have things going on parallel or I'll be able to pretty quickly- Pivot pivot to something else. Yeah. You know, so it started as a reactionary move. Mm-hmm. Um, and then as I moved on in my career, I thought about it more as like, no, this can be coming... This can be more intentional for people, and I don't think, uh, a lot of professionals really think- Think about that about it in that- Yeah in that context in terms of- That it's a
Speaker 3muscle
Speakerthat, that it... Exactly, that it is absolutely a, a muscle that you, that you, you build. Um, because change, I, I don't care- Happens if you're, uh- Listen you know, what age you are, it, it, it's scary. Even someone- Yeah can be, have their perfect, what they think is their perfect opportunity presented right in front of them, and they're still gonna be scared.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerUm, and that's, that's just human nature. So I think when you look at it as like, hmm, the, the whole idea with pivots and, and how I approach it is, you know, following your curiosity, you can connect the things. You know, skills are transferable, all of that. I mean, there's, there's a way to do it. So you'll still be a little nervous, but you won't necessarily be, be anxious because you're getting information along the way in terms of if this is right for you.
Speaker 3That's a good one. I think you touched on it really well around being nervous- Mm-hmm opposed to being fearful Right? And I think when we are in layoffs or we see things happening in the economy or in the news, and there's so much about your life that quite literally is outside of your control- Yeah. Right. Right that you are just adapting to over life. Mm-hmm. How do you help, both professionally and personally, your clients move away from fear and l- be okay with being nervous?
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 3So- And, and differentiate between the two.
SpeakerNo, no, ab- absolutely. So, so now, and, and I would say it's, it, there's, there's definitely a subtle shift, I would say, in the past year or two years, particularly as layoffs have been on the rise. So, um, so ideally when someone is deciding they want to make a pivot, they're doing it from, uh, a place of confidence and sec- security-
Speaker 3Mm-hmm
Speakerum, versus reacting. You know? So you can make pivots in both instances. Um, I, i- in, and if someone has been laid off, a lot of times they are reacting, and that's, that's slightly different, because we have to look at the real things. Yeah. Like, you know, what's your financial- Bills is due. Yeah. What's your financial runway? Can you, you take care of things? So what, uh, where I've slightly shifted in terms of who I'm trying, trying to, who I'm working with now, is getting the people who are, in a sense, feeling safe, because if you're in a corporate job, no one's safe. Yeah. That part. So, so it is like, so they, if you're feeling safe, but you are paying attention to signs around you, not so that you're- y- you're reacting- Mm-hmm and you're, you're paranoid, but so that, okay, you can see, wow, this department just got new leadership, or they're doing a reorg over there, or there's talk about getting a new CEO. You can see the different things that maybe indicate that there's gonna be change that impacts you. And not that you have to leave the company, but you're starting to prepare and think about, "Well, what would I do if..." So you're coming from a position of power. Yeah. So, so pivot in the sense of like, "Hmm, things are changing here. Maybe I'll be here and I'll be fine with the changes, or maybe I won't like some of the changes, or maybe change will impact me and I'll be out. How can I take steps to prepare in advance?"
Speaker 3Yes. You know what I love that you mentioned, that I wanna pull out, is that awareness piece.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 3I think sometimes when you're at a corporate job or anywhere, you become so accustomed to your every s- day- Mm-hmm that you are no longer aware, right? The, it, it- Correct kind of falls back to your subconscious. Correct. Mm-hmm. And like you just said, if there's new leadership in one department, start to evaluate your own department. Mm. Like, I wanna pull that out for our listeners to hear. Absolutely. Especially if you work at a public company, right? Your, their
Speakerstock pr- Especially if you, it, it, a public company is the perfect example- Mm-hmm because n- you'll, you'll hear things when you're in there, "Oh, we have earnings. We have..." Pay attention. Pay attention. I don't care what level you are. Get on that earnings call and hear what they say because they have to disclose all the things. And you may not understand all of the information, but then ask someone or go online.
Speaker 3Listen,
Speakerlike- And like right now, put it in the chat hey, listen easy and just be like- Listen "Hey, what d- does this mean?" Do, become aware y- become aware because they will say things in there like, "Hey, well, we're a little worried there's a competitor over here," or, "We didn't make earnings last quarter. We're projecting we're gonna be short down." Stock prices are down. Or the stock price is down. All of these things that are indicators of, like, they're going to have to make certain changes. Yes. You know? So, and if they're saying, "Oh, this product didn't perform," and that's the department you're in
Speaker 3Exactly You know, it's so big, yeah ex- what, and the one thing I love about that- Mm-hmm that sense of awareness, 'cause I talk about it a lot p- both professionally and personally. Nobody's bigger than, bigger than the program.
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 3Mm-mm. No one's bigger than the company. Mm-mm. No one's bigger than their stock prices. No one's bigger than the program. So how do you create your own program, both professionally and personally- Mm that you're ready for a pivot wherever that may happen?
SpeakerIt, and so it starts with, okay, do you really understand your skillset?
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerOkay. Because we will lean into job titles.
Speaker 2Andrea, you coming in hot
Speakeron them. No, I'm, I'm telling... Y- you know, so, like, these are things- They love a job title they, we, we love a job title, particularly, so I'm, I'm talking to my folks that have been in companies. They- they're feeling nice. They're sitting nice. That check is, is, is nice. Less
Speaker 3than
Speakerhalf, um, 10, 10 plus- You get- 15 years- Mm-hmm or something. You're like, "Oh, this place doesn't run without me." It does. You know? So, um, and, and you're like, "Well, I'm the VP of such and such." Okay, the outside world doesn't know what that is. Yep. The outside world doesn't know what that means. And probably in the years that you've been there, you have taken on other responsibilities. You have other skills that aren't indicated by your job title. Mm-hmm. So let's zero in on that. Are you clear on- what your actual skills are. Now, the ones that you're good at and you enjoy, because you maybe have a lot of skills that you don't necessarily want to take with you, but what are your skills, and then with those skills, what value do you drive?
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerLike, can you articulate that? 'Cause that's the thing. People, been in companies 10, 15 years, they speak the language of- Of the company- of the company and the
Speaker 3company only. And- Not the industry
Speakernot the industry, not anything so that- Yes someone external... Because if your industry is crumbling and you need to pivot, your skills are transferable. Okay.
Speaker 3I love that you just said that, and I wanna stop you there because-
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 3honestly, with AI, there is not an industry that has not seen some sense of turnover- Mm-hmm some sense of evolution or change. Even in the blue collar industry- Mm-hmm they are now leveraging- Yeah technology in a different way, right? So how do you help people create that, you know, that cold pitch-
Speaker 4Right, right, right
Speaker 3of who am I- Sure, sure without the title? How do you help people say that? So- Because-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 3sometimes, unfortunately, we become our professional personas.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 3We forget who we are as individuals. You're the mom, you're the husband, you're the friend, you're the sister, you're the brother, that you only lean into this title. You can only speak to the skills that are morphed under this title. Mm-hmm. You can't even speak to who you are holistically. Yeah. How do you help people navigate
Speakerthat
Speaker 3way?
SpeakerRight. And so what you're, you're getting into is the whole identity and- Yeah and, and, uh, an individual's identity being tied to their job or their title. So I, I actually, one of the, the, the offerings that, that I'm working on now, that I'm in, in pilot on, because I, I do one-on-one coaching, but what I realize is that there, there's a, a greater need, um, and, and I call it e- executive visibility.
Speaker 5Yep.
SpeakerYou know? So working on the executive visibility and, and the pivot blueprint helps to do that. And a key thing is let's start with- intake, and it was like, "What are all the things that you've done? What have been the results that you've delivered?" Yes. Like, I'm starting from that. And sometimes people still don't necessarily get the concept of what I'm asking or what I'm talking about, so what I have is I have something called the Executive Blind Spot Report, which ask a series of questions to help people do their own diagnostic of like, "Okay, am I at risk? Like, if I were outside of my company tomorrow, can I articulate what I do?" Yeah. "And can I demonstrate my value?" Nice. You know? So that's the key thing is immediately for people to just wake up and go, "Oh, gosh, if I'm talking to someone in a different industry and I just tell them my title-" They have- they don't get it." They
Speaker 3have no idea.
SpeakerThey have no idea. And I can't explain that, that Project Apollo, which was super success in the company, no one knows what Project Apollo is.
Speaker 3Can you even give someone context outside of the room that you're in?
SpeakerOutside of the room. So, so like that- A hidden
Speaker 3gem.
SpeakerYes. You have hidden, real gems. So the, this, and I would talk to... So, like, it's, it's a process. So I know these, y- these different steps and stages. So yeah, we have a process where we do the intake, and it was like, "Give us the information so, because then from there I can spit it back to you and say, 'Oh, okay,' because you need..." What I'm basically helping them to create is a bridge narrative.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerYou need a bridge narrative that's basically so if you're in the elevator, you and I are talking- we're at a conference or something, I can explain to you what I do. There's that bridge narrative, then you get it. It doesn't matter what, what industry you're in. Mm-hmm. So when you have the bridge narrative, then the next piece is, okay, do you have that- that pitch, that blurb, because you've been working for so long- 20-plus years. You have a great network, but maybe you haven't been in touch with them, or i- if you wanted to reach out because you just heard, "Oh, wow, Sanika got this great position at this company, and I wanna talk to her," and w- what are you gonna say in your email? How are you gonna give the, the, the two to three- Yeah sentences about what you're doing? And usually people get locked on that. So what I'm trying to do is to get people to have those, those assets-
Speaker 3Yes,
Speakerready to go before they need it, before they need it. Like, let's do it now. This is what I call, yeah, I'm calling... Like, this is a whole package. This is career insurance, okay? Yes. People have homeowner's insurance. I love a career insurance. It's career insurance. You gotta
Speaker 5come on. You know, look, we're branding this. Listen, I love this. Yeah, like a-
SpeakerA career insurance career insurance. I- Career insurance. Because people aren't, aren't thinking like that. It's just like, oh- They aren't they're thinking, "Oh, I'm 20 years, and the VP at such and such, and that's my career insurance." See, like- Nobody knows about that.
Speaker 3See, uh, this is... So this, I love this. You love that? I love the concept-
SpeakerYeah of
Speaker 3career insurance, but I always say, right- Yeah as a millennial, right? Mm-hmm. As an older millennial, I say that our generation is the bridge. Okay. The bridge for our grandparents and generations- Yeah beyond us, and our kids, and then theirs. That, to me, the concept of a career insurance is so heartwarming, right? Oh, okay. Okay. Because I know my mother's generation-
Speaker 4Yeah
Speaker 3and her- Yeah mother's generation was taught, "Get a job." Yeah. "Keep the job. Don't leave the job." Yeah, that was the
Speaker 4insurance.
Speaker 3Be quiet." Mm-hmm. "Be easily palatable," and that was the insurance. Mm-hmm. Which the undergirth of all of that is, be easy to accept, be tolerable. Mm-hmm. Do as they say. Mm-hmm. Don't have any boundaries, and that will quote, unquote- Oh, yes secure your, your role- Yes, yes, yes which we've learned is not a real thing.
SpeakerIt's not, yeah.
Speaker 3It's not a real thing. So here we are today- Mm-hmm evolving those narratives saying, "No."
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3Build your own career insurance." Yes. Right? 'Cause I love an audit now. Yes. I, I'm big on self-accountability, so I feel like I just wanna- Right, right capture some of those gems that you're saying. Right, right. Which is, one- What skills do you have- That's right independent of your title and your company? Mm-hmm. Because a lot of people lead with that. "I'm X, Y, and Z from this big company everybody knows." I don't know what that means. Nobody knows what that is. Mm. Right? So have your audit. Stay mindful. Be aware of what's happening- Mm-hmm in not just your company, your industry.
SpeakerRight.
Speaker 3And build your own career insurance.
SpeakerBuild career insurance. Come on. Career insurance, and that's, that's being able to articulate what you do, be able to articulate the value that you deliver, be clear on... It's like, "These are my strengths. This is the type environment or situation I'm operating in," so that when you're talking to anyone, because you're, you're in the position right now, you're at your company. You're okay. Things may be, bodies are dropping on the- Going great, yeah you know, things are going okay for you. Bodies are dropping on the side of you, but you're, you're holding on, but you can talk to people. Uh, and you should. You should start re-engaging with your network because the... And then you can also update your LinkedIn and your different things because the first thing someone's gonna do when you reach out to them and they haven't heard from you in five years- Is check your LinkedIn is they're gonna check your LinkedIn. So make sure your LinkedIn says what you want it to. What you're doing, what you wanna be doing. We use that bridge narrative, like, to, to kind of craft the about. Like, all of everything is working together because then you've had a thr- you, you have that through line-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerand that people get it, and as soon as they get it, and when you can say, "Hey, this is what I'm, I'm, you know, this is what I'm good at. These are my strengths," and then they, when they get it and it clicks, they're like, "Oh, you should talk to so-and-so."
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerYou know s- and it just- Yeah it's the domino. It keeps moving. It's the domino, and it, and it keeps leading to different things. So all of that for me kinda stems from, uh, wanting people to have control.
Speaker 3Yes, of your own life. Of your own
Speakerlives. Design your own life. And of your own profession, and to not be... Like, there's, there's a, a thing now, w- it's always been a thing, but, but you see it now more on LinkedIn where people, especially with the layoffs, and people are talking about the age, age bias. And age bias is real.
Speaker 3Yeah, I was- I'm, I'm Gen X girl, you... Listen. You know, so I'm, I'm Gen X. It's real. You, you got the... I was just gonna ask you about that.
SpeakerYeah, yeah. So there, there is age bias, but I'm just like, but there's racism and there's sexism, too. And I was like, and so for, particularly for, for women of color, it was like, if we've been dealing with certain things-
Speaker 3For a long
Speakertime. since we stepped out of academia.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm.
SpeakerAnd it was like, so you get to this point, and you're tired.
Speaker 3I j-... Oh, Andrea, when I tell you, you, you- went exactly where my heart was going. Yes, yes. Because, listen, as, as a Caribbean girl, we call them big woman friend. Oh. I love a big woman friend, okay? A big,
Speaker 5a
Speaker 3big what is it? It's called a big woman friend. So it's usually someone- Yeah who is, like, 10, 20 years older- Yeah than you that you're very close with. Yeah. And we call them big woman friends. Yes. And so when you were saying these things about the audit and, like, you know, audit your skills, know who you are. Yeah. I know so many women who I love will be like, "Sanika, that's a lot of work. I've worked so long-"
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 3and so hard- Mm-hmm to accomplish what I've accomplished, and now you asking me to do all these new things- Yeah and this AI and the LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. All for what?
SpeakerAnd I don't want them to tap out. But the thing is- Me neither you know, the, it, 'cause we can't tap out.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerIt was like, so there's so many, 'cause they, I, you know them. They, I, you know, they're friends of mine. They're- Yes women that it was like they-
Speaker 3Are
Speakerbrilliant they, brilliant, need to work for 5 to 10 more years.
Speaker 3Yes, and they're brilliant. Like, they, they
Speakerneed to
Speaker 3work. And they're sharp. Like, it's- Like, yes they, they need financial- They're just like, ugh the financial need is one thing. Yeah. But genuinely and sincerely- It's- brilliant
Speakerpeople have a lot of value, have a lot of value to deliver. Yes. Have a lot... But, but it's kinda that hybrid, like you said with your big woman friends- Yes where they're just like, "Ugh, I don't wanna do all that." This is why I'm developing this. It was like, no, I, you do this part, I will do that part. Yes. Then you have
Speaker 5something to react to. Yes.
SpeakerBecause that's it. I don't want people- To tap out tapping out. Like, and it, and it stemmed from I'm watching smart, intelligent women, like you're saying- Who get it done who, who, who get it done, who are so discouraged right now because the market isn't responding to them. And so they're in a little bit of a different situation. Maybe they've already been impacted by a layoff or they're underemployed, you know, so different things. So it's, it's a confidence thing. This also helps your confidence. Yeah. Because when you go through that and you realize, oh- I'm kinda that girl,
Speaker 3you know? So- And has
Speakeralways been yeah, and have always been, but you need to remind yourself, and then you're like, "Oh, okay," because maybe you've stayed in that job even though- Too long you didn't get the promotion. You're not getting paid what you should be paid, and so you're a little nervous to leave, and it was like, and you do this work, you go through this process-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakerand you realize, wow, and it, you don't have to leave yet. Like, I'm, I'm working with someone right now. We started it because, just to give an i- uh, she's, she's in the legal field. Yeah. You know, she's a paralegal. Obviously, that's an area that's being hugely disrupted by AI. We started, by AI. Yeah. We started working kind of right at the, the rise of that, at least for the general consumers- Yeah like us. Um, and, and I remember sharing with her, and she's like, "Well, I, y- y- you know, how does this apply to me?" And then slowly she started seeing her company and, and things that they were doing. I was like, "Look, none of us know where this is going." I was like, "But where you will be ahead of things is because if you embrace it and all of that" And, and long story short, I mean, she's getting asked to be a part of these different task force. Yeah. There's, I, I... How it will play out, there will be a position that is created for you.
Speaker 3For... Yes.
SpeakerYeah, and that's- Because- exactly what's happening now.
Speaker 3I love that. Yeah. Because I think at first, people were very afraid. As someone who works in technology- Mm-hmm who's very afraid of AI. They're like, "Oh, we're gonna, they're gonna lose jobs." There will be jobs eliminated, but there'd be so many more created. Mm-hmm. Because what people don't realize is AI can just take you but so far.
SpeakerRight.
Speaker 3That human intuition- Right that in-person conversation- Mm-hmm there are so many elements that AI could never touch- Right in every field, especially technology.
SpeakerYeah, exactly.
Speaker 3Especially.
SpeakerLegal. Mm-hmm. All of that. Like, the, yes, they can look at whatever the precedents and the- It can scan some documents translate the laws- It can summary and
Speaker 3all of that it can do all of those things
SpeakerBut they don't know how to deliver the information to the- A human being. to, to the attorney who has to go service the client, and because this client only likes things in this particular way or w- you, whatever the nuances are. So that, that is where, like, I, I don't want people to self-select and just feel like, "You know what? I'll just get whatever," because now's not the time. You can't just get whatever.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerThings are, are changing quickly, and it was like, and don't shortchange yourself.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerYou know? So, and it was like, a- and, and h- do it from a, a position of strength and confidence and more s- like you say, if you have the, the, the assets before you need it, it's still uncomfortable-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerbut you're ahead of the game because what happens, people are I- and, and we're just talking about pivots right now- Yeah obviously in the, in the professional sense, but, but you see with people- Even personally yeah, but even personally, when someone is, when there is a trigger, uh, then usually there's the moment of like, "Oh, shoot, what do I do now?" How do I brace myself? And the whole idea of a pivot is that you're not off-balance, because, like, even if you think of pivot in terms of, like, basketball or something, the whole thing is one foot is planted.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerSo where we're planting you is in this preparation and in the work so that you can go in the different-
Speaker 3Angles,
Speakeryes in the different directions and whatever, that, that you can, without throwing your back out or something. Yeah, exactly. You know? It was like you're ready to go. I'm like, yes. You know?
Speaker 3I love that you said that. Yeah. I love that you said that. So. Because now that you think about it, people actually don't see pivots for what they are.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 3You do actually have to be planted in a place to make a pivot. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe it's just culturally, we feel like a pivot mean a quick shift. Yeah, yeah. You're just, you're jumping from here and you're jumping- No, like a jump
Speaker 5and jump. Like... Yes, I'm gonna say jump. They're like, "I'm leaving the ground." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, no, no, no, it was a pivot. You like, you know? Yes.
Speaker 4Hey, jumping in here really quick. We're building a community of curious women who are challenging the status quo in a way that does not diminish our health, both mentally and emotionally, through words that carry us every single day.
Speaker 3Hi,
Speaker 4I'm Sanika. First, thank you for stumbling on the show and taking the time to listen. Every single listen, comment, like, share, I truly appreciate from the bottom of my heart. This community is something that I've always wanted to nurture and build in a way that doesn't challenge us to do more, show up better, but to do the work internally, to build community, to laugh, to live with each other So if that's you, please subscribe, send me a comment, reach out to me personally. You can find me on all social media platforms as @tanikanicki, and let's get back to the show. Thank you.
Speaker 3So how do you help- Yeah people find solace in where they should be grounded, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Both professionally and personally. Yeah. That's why I think, like, that's why I think it's important for us to be solid in where we are grounded.
SpeakerA- a- absolutely, and it ties into values.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerYou know, so values particularly i- in kind of your stage of life. I mean, your general values or things are gonna stay the same, but, uh, the order-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerthe order may shift. You know, at certain stages of your, of, of your life, the, the boundaries... Boundaries always be critical, but it was like flexibility- Mm-hmm might be more key because you have younger children-
Speaker 3Mm-hmm
Speakeror something. Or, um, opportunity or a challenge might be more important because it was like, hey, you're, you're rising in your- Yeah career or something. Whereas in another one it's, it's fulfillment, like you want to feel like you're, you're, you're giving back, or you're in a position to, to nurture more. And so environment or who your colleagues are or something and, or how you're received is- Yeah is maybe more important. Y- you might be more willing to tolerate certain things in one stage than you are in another. Hmm. So when you're clear on, on those things, you- so then you can look, again, you can look to your skill set, and that's when people start letting certain things go. And it's just like, yeah, I did that for 10 years. It almost killed me. I'm good. Made me good money. I don't wanna do that anymore, but, like, I, I... these are the things I'd like to do going forward because, you know, X, Y, Z. So I think really, so I... so there's, there's a, um, a, a process, like, that, that, that I start with and that I always suggest and, and, and your, your, um, your audience can, can definitely take this. It was like, a- and then you start with, um, reflect.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerYou know? So from wherever you are, like, reflect on what you've done up to that point in, in personal and professional experiences and what, what have you really enjoyed, what, um, what has been consistent, what are, what are the things that you realize was like, wow, you had a reaction to you never wanna do again. Okay, so, so getting clear, going through that reflect phase. Yeah. And it was like, and what stands out, kind of the, the positives and the negatives. And then from there you can go into research. So if you're looking at, like, from the positive things, it was like, oh I've always really liked media- Yeah or something, and I've done it with my sorority, whatever, but I haven't done it professionally. And, and so then you start researching. Well, what would be some things that, that I could explore here? How would I get versed in this or something? And you just start to research. And these are things people can do-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerwhen they're in a job. You don't have to be un- unhappy with your job or looking to leave, but you're just like, you're curious. Exploring. You're exploring. Yes. You're curious, okay? So then you, you do, you do the research, and that could be talking to people. Yeah. Of just like, "Oh, I wanna talk to this person. That's an interesting title. Oh, I really like that company. Let me see who I can talk to," you know? So that's, that's part of, part of the research. Then you get that information, and again, you, you... From the reflect stage, you know your strengths and skills and interests and whatever. Then that next stage is like, okay, well, how do I reframe? Meaning, you repackage, you're reframing your own experience, uh, based on where you're thinking you want to go. You wanna go. You know, it's like, oh, I... Okay, it was like, these are my skills. This is how I reframe it, but this is also the point when you go, "Okay, I'm reframing. Maybe I need to go volunteer over here with this organization, or I'm gonna help my friend out who's launching a business, and I'm gonna do the marketing for her because I wanna learn more about-
Speaker 3Reframe and go into
Speakerthat direction Yeah, I wanna, I wanna learn more about digital marketing, and so this will give me more things to talk about. Or I'm gonna take this, this, uh, you know, online course, you know, so I learn the terminology. Whatever it is, this is all part of, of the, the reframe. The reframe. Nice. The reframe. And then relaunch, you know? Ah. So that is, like, you've repack- And just like, but you can go to your contacts. Yeah. You can go to people. It's like, "Oh, this is, this is what I've done- And you're ready for a relaunch this is what I'm doing." And, like, you're already living it in a sense, even if you had to do it on the side because your job was totally different. So those were... That's another t- type- I love that framework of way to- Yes explore the pivot. Um, you know, again, if, like, because you, you're not always doing it because you think, "Hey, things are going in my company. I need to get out of here." You can just be doing it. You're just curious.
Speaker 3Yes, and follow that curiosity. Yes, exactly. So in this season of us- Mm-hmm talking about a life designed versus a life drifted, I've, I've sensed this- This, I wanna say, overarching restriction in a lot of the conversations with women saying, "Well, but I wanna have it all."
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3And as a woman who's gone through all the things with kids and careers and all the things, my husband, I always say that, "That's a nice statement, but you can't have it all, all at once."
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3And with your framework, it also made me think of that same line of I wanna have it all, 'cause I think everyone has this euphoric expectation of life until they get through lessons- Mm-hmm and seasons. How do you help people realize it's not about having it all, but it's about having what you want right now? Like, what part, what, what do you need right now? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 'Cause what I loved about the framework was I'm reflecting, I'm looking back on what I did and what I loved- Mm and what was great. Then I'm looking at what I actually liked. Mm-hmm,
Speakermm-hmm.
Speaker 3Cause what you like today, this year, next year- Yes could be so different five years from now.
SpeakerAbsolutely.
Speaker 3So how do we, like, rip away this have it all- Right, right because all changes in every season-
SpeakerRight
Speaker 3and say, "What do I need right now?" Right. Well- "What do I want right now?"
SpeakerA- a- and, and a key first step is just even allowing yourself to ask that question.
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerYou know? So because so many times it's like we're on that treadmill of like, "Okay, I'm in this role, I'm progressing, I'm getting my promotions" and everyone who means well, who loves us and everything, they're like, "That's great. Keep going." And they don't know that you don't wanna keep going.
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerYou know? So- You know, they don't know and, and, and you don't wanna disappoint them.
Speaker 3Yes. But you okay disappointing yourself. I'm just saying. But
Speakeryou- yes. Yeah, so, so that's the whole thing. And it was like so this i- this is, this is why ano- another key thing is, is kind of, is community. And so when you start doing this research is why I really encourage people to get out and to talk to others because your family and your loved ones who are well-intentioned, they don't know anything about where you're trying to go. You don't know. Like, you're trying to figure it out. So, but-
Speaker 3At the same time, you trying to tell other people- Yeah, and at the
Speakersame time-
Speaker 3"Why not just do the work internally- Yeah and do your thing on the side?" But, but you know
Speakerwhen- Get a little journal. You trying to tell mom or auntie or your husband or something that it was like, "I wanna do this thing and I don't know" and they're looking at you and they're a little nervous. But when you come to them and say, "Oh, I talked to so and so, and this and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that," they feel your energy, they feel your confidence, and they're like, "That sounds amazing."
Speaker 3Yes, and a lot of times- And they
Speakerwill support you we get stuck
Speaker 3in our investments.
SpeakerYeah. Sunk cost. Ugh. Sunk cost. Andrea. It was in here. It was in here- for us to talk
Speaker 3about. Okay.
SpeakerOkay? Sunk cost.
Speaker 3Yeah. Because-
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 3who you were at 20- Mm-hmm 19, 30, 40, you invested in- Absolutely this business- Mm-hmm this degree and this thing, and now- Mm-hmm you feel like, "I invested too much, I can't leave. If I tell my mom, my husband, my kids that I'm leaving they gonna think I'm crazy."
SpeakerYeah, yeah. Now it's... So and this is when you, when- I, you, you really have to think about, like, the passing of time.
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerYou know? So because it's so, it, people... What's the saying? I'm gonna get it all mixed up, but it was like they, they, they underestimate what they can get done in 10 years or overestimate what they can get done in a year. Something like that. Yeah. But the, the whole idea is that, uh, even if you just think about, like, to five years ago-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerand how much you accomplished.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerAnd it was like, so if someone were to just be like, "I want to do a complete 180 from, from where I am right now," if you have the steps and the plan, and then you start taking the small steps, you'll be able to accomplish amazing things, like, in a year, not even just in five years.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerBut people don't, aren't thinking about that. 'Cause of
Speaker 3fear.
SpeakerThe fear. 'Cause of fear. Well, it's like, because something that we have, um, it's, it's always, we always, uh, attribute more value to it because we already have it.
Speaker 3Mm. Something we already have-
SpeakerYeah, we could- we attribute more value to it we don't wanna give it up. We don't wanna give it up. Think, think about, like, um, the, the, the, the ratty T-shirt that you have. Yeah. You know? Some, some people are really good at getting rid of clothes, but think about your, like your closet or something like that. Yeah. And there could be that, that, that, that dress, whatever, that- That I've held on for
Speaker 3so many
Speakeryears and it's- You, 'cause you paid good money for that dress.
Speaker 3Oh my gosh. This is so true.
SpeakerYeah,
Speaker 3and you,
Speaker 4you are
Speaker 3like- I-
Speaker 4I am not letting go of this dress"
Speaker 3I know people who do that with furniture, who do it with so many things. And we do it with life. And
Speakerit's just
Speaker 3like, and I'm just sitting here like, "You, you used your money worth." Yes. Like...
SpeakerYes. But we do... So, so when you say it was like, "But I invested," like, "I'm, I spent so much time doing it"- Oh,
Speaker 3man it's the
Speakersame thing.
Speaker 3It's is the same thing, but I also- Yeah I see it on both sides. I'm empathetic to- Yeah the person who feels like, "I spent 10 years-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 3X amount of years building a career or building this- Right life in this direction- Mm-hmm how do I even face myself in the mirror, much less other people- Right and say, 'I wanna go a different way?'"
SpeakerWell, so this is the thing, because a lot of that we're saying it's coming from fear. It's coming from fear because people are thinking that they're throwing everything away. Yes. I'm throwing it all out. You're not. You're absolutely not. So again, if we go back to, to the process, be it, like, The Pivot Blueprint- Yeah or even just like that, that, the, the research, the reflect and research, you, there are skills and things that you acquired. Yes. And if it is, like, I don't care, you could've been an attorney. You were an attorney.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm.
SpeakerAnd it was like, and you wanna go do something else. There were the skills that you acquired, and guarantee there are skills that you can take away that are going to help you in that next endeavor. Yes, maybe it's not the same level, like, immediately of, like, okay, yes, you were an attorney making half a million dollars, whatever it was. It was like, but- You, you can see a path.
Speaker 3Yes. Like,
Speakerand you start- And see a path forward to build that path. Yes.
Speaker 3That is so great, because I don't think we see skills that way.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 3You know? I think for some reason we feel like skills only exist where they are now,
Speakerright? Yeah.
Speaker 3If I learn to negotiate- Yeah a deal for this
Speakerperson- But, because it's not about skills. Mm. It's about title. It's like, "I'm a lawyer." It was like, "No, no, no. L- break down. 'Cause if I didn't know what a lawyer was, tell me what a lawyer does. Like, let's break all that down."
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerYou know? And it was like, and which of those things are-
Speaker 3Yes, and I'm a mom- are transferable to three kids, and I work full-time. Yeah. And I navigated schedule- Yeah, so, so what is it? and I did this.
SpeakerExactly.
Speaker 3Like, we don't, we don't own skills. And different
Speakerpersonalities- Yes and all of this. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 3I come from a big family. I navigate
SpeakerYeah. I'm negotiating all the time, you know? So- Yes I'm managing the budget, you know? So, you know.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerYeah. Yeah. So, so there are all those things that again, when you identify the skills, it helps to give you the confidence so that then you can have your bridge narrative, you can have your conversations, your dialogue with your people so that you can get certain opportunities. Yes. Like, you know, the attorney who's thinking, "Oh, I wanna go into marketing." It was like, "Okay, well, so where are you doing marketing now? Are you doing marketing for the Lawyer's Association? Are you doing... You know, did, did you get involved with the conference?" Like, where are you getting different- Where are you gonna step
Speaker 3out?
SpeakerWhere, where are you getting different experience so that you can speak to certain things?
Speaker 3Mm. But that... It's a process. It's a process. And I love that we're talking about the process. It's a process. Right? Separating yourself, separating yourself from the title, one, first and foremost. Yes,
Speaker 5because that's not your identity.
SpeakerYou're, that's... But, but- For so many of us, like, that is, like, it's the symbol- I am to, to our parents. Like, oh, your, your grandmother or something can say- Yeah "Oh, my daughter is a such and such." Yes. "She's a VP here," whatever. And then when you have to explain to Nana that, like, "Well, I'm an entrepreneur," she's like, "Baby, what's that? What's that mean?" What's that? Yeah, yeah, like who- And you
Speaker 3came over here and asked for two
Speakerplates instead of one who, who pays you? Yeah, like, who pays you? Like, all I know is, are you, you not going into the office, you know? Yes. Yeah. That, and that, that is different because-
Speaker 3Yes
Speakerlike, it was like, oh, I, I know I used to make decisions by that. I was like, "I need to be able to, like, give my grandmother a business card or something." Yes. You know? So, and then she's like, has something to, to tell the ladies at church.
Speaker 3Yes. She can't just go telling my baby knitting now
Speakerwhat. And they're like, "Well, yeah, like what is, is, is, is consultant, or does something on the, on the, on the, on the Internet." You know, I don't know what that is, you know, so.
Speaker 3But it's so funny- Yeah because often people can't say what they do outside the company and their title. Yeah. Yeah. Talk me through your day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Making it so simple because sometimes you get so inundated, you start to drift- Mm-hmm in your every single day. You know how to do the job with your eyes closed. You can just walk- Right through it.
Speaker 4Right.
Speaker 3But you're drifting away from what you designed. Right. And you are not even noticing that you've acquired all these skills-
SpeakerYes
Speaker 3that weren't even listed in the job description- Right when you first took
Speakerit. Yeah. So- Or these things that they gave you, these responsibilities, 'cause you're like, "Oh, you so good at this. Here, take this too."
Speaker 3Exactly, and you took it on. Mm-hmm. You learned these new skills. Mm-hmm. You've adapted. You've grown teams. You've done all these things, but now let's just say I'm becoming more aware. I'm seeing what's happening in the world. Mm-hmm. I'm seeing what's going on.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 3Do I talk more about the title? Do I talk more about the company? I always go, why don't you just talk about your skills or talk about who you are?
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3Because so much can be learned over time. Like, I'm a lifelong learner. I'm, I always joke- Yes I'm a happy little nerd. Yeah. Please stow information my way. Right, right. Give me the most complex thing you got. Right, right. Yeah. I'm like, ugh.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3You know?
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3But some people are happier- Right in more stable things. I do X, I do Y, I do Z, I get this outcome.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3So talk to me about X. Yeah. Talk to me about Y. Right. Right. And why does Z even matter? Right. Right. And how do we s- how do we get to a place where we encourage women to have those conversations- Right with themselves first-
SpeakerYes, yes
Speaker 3and then be able to have it openly with friends, and then family, and then- Yeah, yeah you get... You're more comfortable with this- Right, right this framework you're sharing with us.
SpeakerNo, it, it's, it's absolutely critical, and I, I think a, a, a key thing is- For, for, for women in particular to allow themselves-
Speaker 3Ugh, girl
Speakerto think that there is some, could be something different or something better.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerLike, because a lot of times it's not that they're... Y- like you say, it was like there, there are people who's like, they've done the same job or in a similar type environment 15, 20, 25 years. There, there comes a point for some of them, uh, and it's just a matter of if they've articulated, articulated it, where they're saying, "I, I want something different, and I don't know what it is." Like, and if they get to that point, it was like, okay, then we're in business. Like, 'cause then, then there's, there's that, that, that kernel, like the light peeking through. Yeah. And then if they can drill down on more, it was like, "Well, what, what does that mean to you?"
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerLike, what does... So then it, it's, it's not tying it to work, but it's tying to what does more mean? Because it's different for people. For some, it's like, "Well, I, I wanna have more recognition. I wanna have more autonomy."
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerI want to have..." Y- you know, so, and then based on that, then you- You build around that you can start taking different, different action. You know, so but, but the first thing is allowing yourself to, i- is allowing yourself to, to wonder.
Speaker 3Yeah.
SpeakerTo wonder, to be curious.
Speaker 3And giving yourself that permission, which is- Yes sad to say, but sometimes we, we see that crack. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We feel it internally. We're like, "Uh, this doesn't really fit the way it used to fit."
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 3I don't really feel comfortable doing this." But you know you have bills. It's, it's good. It's okay. You have kids. Yeah. You have responsibilities, and you're like, "I don't have the room-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 3to say I no longer wanna do this."
SpeakerWell, and so the, the one thing, and, and a, a lot of times those women are just like, oh, all the things, and they're really good and well-respected at their job, but they're wanting something more. There are usually things they can and should say no to, and that's- Mm where we start. Ah. We start with looking around. It was like, okay, so what's your, what's your day? What, what's your day look like? What's your week look like? What are you doing with your ti- And then I usually hear the... It's like, "Oh, I'm on this committee- Mm and oh, I'm on that." Girl,
Speaker 3I'm
Speakerhelping this person. And then it's just like... And I- I'm doing this. Yes and, and I'm just like, "Okay. W- why are you doing that?" "Well, 'cause I've done it for five years," whatever. I have literally worked with people to help them to say. It's like, okay, and so how are you-
Speaker 3Gonna stop.
SpeakerHow are you gonna say no to that? How... Because first they need to make space. You, you can't be creative and dream if you're exhausted.
Speaker 3Gem drop in. That, I feel like that was such a mic drop statement. As someone who has lived it and understand it- Yeah deeply, that is a life, that is a, a big moment, you know? That you have to realize time is currency.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 3And if you only have $24-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 3and let's just be for reals- Yeah really eight of them we wanna be sleeping.
SpeakerRight.
Speaker 3Right? Right. You know?
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 3What are you gonna do with the rest of- Right that currency in your day? Right. And you're so right. We drift into saying yes to things that- Yeah we've just been saying yes to, and the kids, and this, and this, and ugh. Yes. Yeah. How do you make space to be whole?
SpeakerYou have to make space at least for you to even begin to think about other things, be it at work, getting off of those committees.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerYou know, stop being the person that plans everything.
Speaker 3Yes.
SpeakerYou know? So let somebody else do it. Hand it off to
Speaker 3somebody else.
SpeakerLet someone else do it just so you can, you can get out of their time. You can have some... You can eat your lunch and just eat your lunch-
Speaker 3Yeah
Speakerand kinda think or maybe read something.
Speaker 3Give yourself space
Speakerto be well. You have to make space. You have to make space for ideas to come in.
Speaker 3Yes. Well, we had such an amazing conversation today. Oh. I could talk to you forever.
SpeakerYes, absolutely.
Speaker 3But I wanna leave you with this one thing. We've talked such, so much about mindset and, you know, understanding the difference between being nervous and being fearful. And if our listeners had to do one thing to prepare their minds, their hearts, their spirit to a pivot, what would be that one thing?
SpeakerI would challenge them to zero in on what they're curious about.
Speaker 3Mm.
SpeakerLike, what are you curious about in the context of, of your life, your personal life, your professional? What are you curious about? And at the same time, what are you looking at and nervous about? Yeah. So for example, like with AI or something, maybe you need to get a little closer to it.
Speaker 3Yeah. Lean into the things that make you- Le- uncomfortable
Speakerthat, that make you, that, that make you nervous and that you're curious about.
Speaker 3Love it.
SpeakerSee where it leads you. See where it leads you.
Speaker 3I love it.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 3Andrea, thank you- Yes so much for joining this episode. Thank you. Thank you. This is such an amazing conversation, and I really do feel that everyone listening to this and being a part of this experience now understands and see that a pivot can be designed. It doesn't have to fall in your lap. You don't have to just react to it. You can design a pivot in your life- Mm-hmm that is aligned with who you are in that season, not just who you have to be. Mm-hmm. So thank you so much.
SpeakerNo, thank you for having me, of course. You know, it's like, it's my favorite topic. So, so
Speaker 3I'm glad I could be here, so. No, this is so good. And I wanna thank you all for taking the time to sit with us and have this conversation. And remember, we are designing a life that we wanna live. We're not drifting into whatever comes our way, and this is how do you divine. See you on the next one. Ah, we are two episodes into clarity, the first movement of the season, and next week we do something we do only three times this season. We stick up in, pause, and arc, plant a flag of culture, and talk about something we do every day without ever calling it what it is. If you grew up in a Caribbean household or amongst people of the diaspora, you might already feel what's coming. That's all I'm giving you. See you on Sunday