Join me as we step into the fascinating world of Double Proficiency, guided by none other than its co-founder, Anna. Prepare to be enthralled as we journey from the humble beginnings of her first book, Herbalist Primer, through its successful Kickstarter campaign, to its current status as a beloved gem in the TTRPG community. Anna candidly shares her experiences, from triumphs to struggles, while also giving us a glimpse into her work with the sequel, Geoglist's Primer.
Get ready to understand the grind of research, balancing work with life, and the critical role of a science editor in her work. A sneak peek into her organized approach and personal growth will surely leave you inspired.
We wrap up our chat by digging into the collaborations and adventures of Double Proficiency. Anna gives us a taste of Jakub's upcoming adventure and their decision to switch gears with a new publisher, Hunter's Entertainment. With the promise of an exciting announcement and talks of future projects, this episode is just the right blend of intrigue, inspiration, and excitement. So, let's celebrate the victories, learn from the challenges, and peek into what lies ahead for Double Proficiency.
Find Anna & Double Proficiency at:
Find Roll Play Grow:
Join me as we step into the fascinating world of Double Proficiency, guided by none other than its co-founder, Anna. Prepare to be enthralled as we journey from the humble beginnings of her first book, Herbalist Primer, through its successful Kickstarter campaign, to its current status as a beloved gem in the TTRPG community. Anna candidly shares her experiences, from triumphs to struggles, while also giving us a glimpse into her work with the sequel, Geoglist's Primer.
Get ready to understand the grind of research, balancing work with life, and the critical role of a science editor in her work. A sneak peek into her organized approach and personal growth will surely leave you inspired.
We wrap up our chat by digging into the collaborations and adventures of Double Proficiency. Anna gives us a taste of Jakub's upcoming adventure and their decision to switch gears with a new publisher, Hunter's Entertainment. With the promise of an exciting announcement and talks of future projects, this episode is just the right blend of intrigue, inspiration, and excitement. So, let's celebrate the victories, learn from the challenges, and peek into what lies ahead for Double Proficiency.
Find Anna & Double Proficiency at:
Find Roll Play Grow:
Hello and welcome to Roll Play Grow, the podcast for tabletop entrepreneurs, creators and fans. In this show we dig into processes, challenges, tips and really look at how to grow a business in the tabletop role-play gaming space. Sit back and join in as we learn from the creators behind your favorite brands about who they are and how they are turning their passion for gaming into a career. Hey everybody, we have another repeat guest today, anna of Double Proficiency. You may remember her if you've been around for a while, from episode 23, which released two years ago, when her first book, Herbalist's Primer, was kickstarting. We've come full circle now, as that book is out in the wild and the next book in the series, Geologist's Primer, has had a very successful kickstarter run as well. I really enjoyed getting to catch up with her and hear about what the past two years have been like. I highly recommend you pick up a copy of Herbalist Primer and stay tuned as Geologists Primer comes into existence. Double Proficiency also has some other cool projects out there that we talked about as well in today's episode.
Courtney:If this is your first time tuning in to Roll Play Grow, I want to give you a special welcome. The show allows me to chat with so many amazing folks about business marketing, hardships, lessons learned, how-to guides across a wide spectrum of industries within the TTRPG scene and, as of last week, I have a lovely co-host on every other episode my co-host is Matt Joro, aka Dungeon Glitch, and alternating weeks where we are doing a deep dive into business-related topics and how they intersect with TTRPGs. We're currently in a three-part series on growing your social media accounts, a topic I think we all find rather relevant right now and also a topic that Matt is an expert at. I just get to drink in all of his knowledge. We have plenty of great topics coming up, so be sure to subscribe to role-Rplay grow on your favorite podcast player.
Courtney:Lastly, before we get started, I want to shout out one of our favorite dice companies, Dice Envy. My very first interview on the show was with David Derus, the founder of Dice Envy, and we've gotten so many dice sets from them over the years. I highly recommend you check them out, as they have dice in all sorts of materials present metal, wood, like at Chonky-20s really cool shapes for their divorce. We are affiliates with them, so if you go to DiceEnvy. com and use the code LIGHTARTADV, you'll get 10% off your order, have some snazzy dice and help support the show. Thanks for hanging out, y'all, and enjoy this chat with Anna. Hello, we are back with Anna, Graphic designer, writer and co-founder of Devil Proficiency. Welcome back, anna.
Anna:Hello, it's a pleasure to be here again.
Courtney:Yeah, it was wild when I realized how long it had been. The last episode that you were in was number 23, which came out in August of 2021.
Anna:Yeah, it's been a while. It's almost two years. I did not realize that this is how much time has passed. I mean, I know things happened meanwhile, but it feels wild that it's been two years.
Courtney:Honestly, ever since Chonky-20 hit it's just been one big blur of like nothing's happening, except actually way too much is happening.
Anna:Yeah, I feel that I'm working from home, so I haven't left my house in quite a long while, for most of that time.
Courtney:Yeah, I kind of tend to be similar. I've worked from home since 2018, and so then when everyone else started working from home, it was like, oh, okay, hi.
Anna:Well, I do actually like this influx in remote options. I wish they stayed yeah same.
Courtney:Well, the last time that we talked, Herbalist Primer was just on Kickstarter, which was a smashing success. You have since fulfilled that Kickstarter, done a bunch of other things with double proficiency. You're in the middle of the geologist primer Kickstarter, which is again wildly successful. It's doing well. Yeah, like, how are you?
Anna:Well, I am slightly overwhelmed, but in general I'm doing fine. I literally spent. I know where the last two years went because I spent a year and a half writing another book, so I'm very excited for it to be out. But, yeah, the previous Kickstarter was basically. It turned my life upside down. It doesn't even cover you know how much money we raised or whatever.
Anna:It just changed my entire work life because I used to mostly work freelance for various clients, just making book layouts and stuff, and you know those little graphic design jobs every now and again, and over the last two years I mostly faced doubt, having to work on commissions. I still pick up every now and again a project if I'm actually very excited about it. So I've done a bunch of really cool stuff with HatchLinks games, for example. I don't know if you know they're in spirals. It's an RPG for people of each every age that teaches you sign language as you play and it's super, super cool. So I've worked on some projects, but I've been able to mostly focus on writing and illustrating my own books and, of course, working with Jakub, my partner, on other games that we're just about to publish soon, I hope. So, yeah, it's been exciting and it's been such a massive shift in my life, you know, switching from working on other people's projects to working on my projects almost exclusively. I love it. There is no hiding the fact that everything's going really, really well.
Courtney:Like I just I love this for you, like it's so exciting. But yeah, I would love to just hear about, like you know, after Herbalist Primer funded and you know, you're able to like move past the actual fundraising side of it and get to finishing the book and fulfilling it. Talk to me about what that was like, you know what, if there is anything that surprised you and just kind of how you went about fulfilling a book like that.
Anna:Yeah, so my part was mostly just writing and illustrating and I'm very glad that that was it. Jakub was covering a lot of additional writing. For example, he was writing an adventure and he was writing a bunch of adventure seeds that we released as one of the stretch goals in the campaign. And we decided to cut cut the stretch goals rather quick in the campaign because they topped out at 300,000 and then we raised 500,000 more. But I'm very glad that we limited the scope that time because I had no bandwidth whatsoever.
Anna:It still took us about half a year to finish off everything that was a part of the kickstart, including the stretch goals, and then it was basically a year of actually getting everything printed and distributed because, just our luck, this is exactly when all the pandemic related supply chain issues started popping up big time and all the prices of printing and distributing that. It just went through the roof. We had a very small team and by team I mean like literally what Jakub and myself on the creative side, plus our lovely editors and the science editor and the exalted funeral team that was taking care of the project management and distribution and printing and everything I don't know 10 people tops. So we were. We were stretched rather thin and I was very happy that we decided to just make a book with a bunch of smaller add-ons instead of going all in on stretch goals and just draining ourselves completely.
Courtney:Yeah, it feels like with Geologist Primer, you guys have a lot more stretch goals this time.
Anna:We do, we do. We changed our partners and now we partnered up with Hunters Entertainment. We actually signed a deal with them for years going forward, so no further changes here. We just decided on a partnership. That's very much in line with what we want to do, with double proficiency in regards to games that we want to publish and potential other stuff that I can't talk about yet, but it is very exciting and I'm looking forward to it. And, yes, now we have a bigger team, so I'm no longer responsible for all the graphics for the Kickstarter and writing the updates and taking care of all the comments and answering all the emails. So, yeah, I have more time to write and I have more time to actually work on the book and all the stretch goals, so we can put in more stretch goals and reach the heights that have never been reached before, at least as far as my second Kickstarter goes. But, yeah, it's super exciting and I love working with Hunters. It's a great team.
Courtney:Okay, believe me, I have lots of follow-up questions. I suppose, before we get too far into those, though, for the sake of our listeners who may not be familiar with Herbalist Primer and now geologist Primer, can you just give us a little overview of what these books are.
Anna:Yeah, absolutely. Those books are basically well, the end goal of my 30-year-old obsession with natural science and RPGs. So I just smashed both together. And Herbalist Primer was a book on real-world magical plants described from the perspective of folklore and occult. Well, mostly modern occult, but also, you know, 15th century Europe, because I am European and it is what I feel mostly allowed to talk about.
Anna:I was always trying to incorporate folklore from different parts of the world, but obviously I am very, very Slavic and there are just some parts of culture that are not mine to talk about. So I'm living space for other people to talk about their cultures. So mine are mostly European focused. It would just feel wrong to talk in detail about stuff that's not mine. So yeah, that's Herbalist Primer. It covers magical plants from Acomite to you, basically because we go off alphabetically, and it includes hundred entries about those real-world plants and the folklore that is connected to them. And Geologist Primer is a very similar book. It has basically the same structure but it covers metals, minerals, crystals, mineraloids and other types of jewelry material like ivory and corals, for example.
Courtney:I got the book for Herbalist Primer Gosh like a couple, I don't know, maybe a month ago at this point.
Anna:Maybe a little longer. Well, thank you for your support.
Courtney:Yeah, yeah. And so, just saying the announcement, I'm like, oh, it's finally here. Like Shawnee Rocks, yes, I was very excited that when this Kickstarter launched and to be able to back this next one, thank you. Did you get to take any kind of break between finishing the writing of Herbalist Primer and then starting writing and drawing for Geologists, or did you just jump straight into it?
Anna:For the sake of the wider public, who should be aware of the fact that rest is very important and you shouldn't just jump from one project to another. I took a break, by which I mean that I started researching different topics because I wasn't really sure what is the second book I would like to write about. So I just started delving into geology and into mycology because mushrooms are cool and into a couple other projects, just to check which one is actually going to hold my interest. But I didn't really have a break per se. I just had, let's say, restful time for personal investigation into what is currently interesting to me, because I knew that if I'm going to jump straight into one specific project and announce it to the world, I may as well lose interest within a week, and then I'm gonna be in a pickle.
Anna:So I didn't take a break, but I took a quiet time away from other people's eyes, so I can figure out what is it that I'm interested in, so I can actually write this book. Because I knew it's gonna take a year and a half to two years to do it, and that's a lot of time for somebody to lose interest, especially if somebody is like me and can either hyper focus on a thing or lose interest completely. It's not something I can control. So, yeah, after about I don't know two, three weeks, I figured that the gems are gonna do the trick. So that's what I did.
Courtney:I mean, honestly, I like that answer, Like I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, like I'm hoping it was at least restful to do that research. But yeah, like this, these books look like so much work, like they are beautiful, they're super interesting. But yeah, I have to imagine that like it had to be kind of exhausting to just keep up with the same topic for so long.
Anna:I mean, it is thousands of hours of research and then hundreds of hours of drawing and hundreds of hours of writing. I don't want to. I mean, I am very grateful I can do this job and I don't want to come across as somebody who is complaining about doing the work of her dreams. But it is allowed and it is sometimes monotonous, I suppose, because you know, especially when I'm working on those hundred main entries it's just day one. We are writing about this. Okay, let's open all the websites I need and all the books that I need, and then just write it down for a couple of hours and then next day do the same thing with another gem. So it has become tedious at some points, but that's the moment where I know that it's time to take a break and just read up something cool or just I don't know go gardening.
Courtney:That's always an option. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. Is there anything that you're doing differently this time when writing this book than what you did when you were doing it? Or will this primer? I think so.
Anna:My work is definitely more organized. I am a person who organizes everything on like multiple lists and then uses all of them to attack the project. So I think I have like seven different trackers for this project so I can give myself hits of dopamine just crossing the same thing off seven times.
Anna:I feel that yes, I definitely have a more focused approach this time, so I actually did the research first and then assembled myself a list of sources that I use the most, and then I use those sources instead of digging through the internet for every single entry separately. There's, of course, a lot of digging through other sources, but the core is more organized. I have found sources that I trust, which are mostly, in this particular case, scientific geological websites like Mindat and Geomology and others like that, that's. I can trust them that the data about physical properties and chemical properties of all of those minerals is actually on point.
Courtney:Yeah, I had to imagine that, since it is kind of like a sequel, like you at least have the layout from the first book and you figured out like having to stumble through everything the first time, I would hope that it would be a lot easier this time. It is easier.
Anna:The layout was basically a matter of removing the existing text and just typing in different headers. Yeah, yeah. So once I knew what I wanted to have in the book, the layout was super easy. I also write already in design, so the layout exists at all times. I don't have to spend additional hours doing layout later and trying to fit the text to space or space to text. It's just a daily thing, yeah.
Courtney:Another thing I'm curious about is and sorry, I realize I'm kind of jumping back and forth between the books- no, jump ahead. Yeah, so another thing I'm curious about is what it was like to work with a science editor.
Anna:Oh, that was awesome. I am so glad that we had a science editor. Rishi Masalia, the biologist botanist that we hired as a science editor for herbally primer, has been basically invaluable. Rishi was going through the whole book, leaving me hundreds of comments about how there is this one specific study that shows that what I'm writing about isn't true. Oh, no, no, no, it is all very. It is actually a great experience because I have learned so many additional aspects to what I was writing about, because obviously my knowledge is more well. I do come to all of this from more of a folklore background and a library background, so my botanical knowledge was sourced from other books. I do not have a degree in biology, so having somebody with a doctorate in botany was just a blast. I have learned so many things while reading Rishi's comments and I would never. I just knew that we need a scientific editor for this book as well, because I just love learning new stuff. That was so exciting. I loved it. I loved every second of it.
Courtney:Kat, so you're saying she left you like hundreds of comments, like were there a lot of herbs that you just had like completely rewrite?
Anna:Oh, no, no, no, it was. I mean, I was using respectable sources for writing all the botanical information, so there were no giant rewrites, but there were, for example, specific aspects of, and, for example, the chemical base for specific elements of photosynthesis that I haven't realized, but they could be very nicely turned into something that's magical for people who aren't that deep into biology. So it was a great experience, because Rishi is also a fan of role-playing games, so he knew what I'm after. He knew perfectly that I am looking for those cool and interesting facts that are facts but also can be very easily turned into something that sounds exciting for people who aren't that much into natural sciences and who are more into games and magic and all kinds of occult traditions.
Courtney:I love just the merge of all of it, of the science, the folklore, the fantasy.
Anna:And the modern bridgecraft.
Courtney:Yeah, it's just such a cool resource to have and I love having the extra adventure and I think, with the stretch goals, that you guys are going to have two adventures now.
Anna:We will. Yes, one is already written. It's called Bedrock Lullaby and it's about a little geode called Pebbles who is going on an adventure. Because, well, pebbles' backstory is that a witch was messing around doing cantrips, but she couldn't really read cursive and, instead of casting light, she somehow put the spark of life into a geode on her bedstand. So Pebbles is now fully conscious and is just experiencing life, because they never had one. So now they want to learn who they are, and the player characters are helping Pebbles along the way, doing adventures and figuring out what the future should be and what Pebbles could be.
Courtney:Oh my God, I already love him.
Anna:It's adorable. Of course, the story is a very silly spin on Frankenstein and the witch is called Sheila Murray because Murray Shelley was already taken. So, yes, jakub had plenty of fun writing this adventure and I hope, because I know hunters have recorded an actual play. But hash, I mean it's gonna go out soon. So there will be an actual play for Bedrock Lullaby which is going to be released soon. I don't know when this episode lands, so it might be around that time. I think the actual play is actually going to be released in 10 days, so 25th. Okay, got it, so we'll see, and I hope they had plenty of fun playing it.
Courtney:I do not know, but I hope I will learn, okay well, I look forward to watching it because Pebbles sounds like amazing and I already love him.
Anna:They are absolutely adorable.
Courtney:So that is the one that's already written.
Anna:Yes, the second one is in works. I don't yet know what Jakub has planned for it, because he says he's thinking on it. I'm sure it's going to be adorable as well, because this is the vibe we're usually going for, just like with the song of the hedge in the previous campaign, where you were helping along a hedgehog to find a magical plant while turned into mice. So things are happening and I'm sure the next adventure is also going to be in the general vibe of fey and little animals and taking care of each other and being all over in both. We just like some nice breaks from life.
Courtney:Yeah, I mean, those are like totally my vibe and what I like in play, so I'm excited. Hey, entrepreneurs, I love introducing you to new creators every episode, but I could really use your support. I would love to invite you to join our Patreon page, where you'll gain access to behind the scenes content, add your questions to upcoming interviews and you can even receive a shoutout on our site and an upcoming episode. To learn more, go to Lightheartadventurescom. And now back to the show. So something else that I wanted to ask about was and you've already mentioned moving over to Hunter's Entertainment for this go round, but I would just love to know, like, what the kind of decision process was in looking for a new publisher and how you found them and how you chose them.
Anna:Well, it's not that we had a problem with the previous publisher. It's just that we as a company have a specific plan for what we want to be doing and what types of games we want to focus on, which includes, again, stuff that's just fun and friendly and upbeat and connected to environmental sciences and to general green type of a thing, because we care about the environment and we care about sharing those values. So we wanted to connect with a company that has those values at the core, including the. I don't know if you played any games that were published by Hunter's Entertainment, but they did. For example, alice is Missing, which is a really interesting role playing games in which there is no talking. Everything is played out via text chat, like group chat of text messages, where you are trying to investigate the disappearance of one of your friends, and it's a nice time gated scenario in which everything can change and you discover different clues and just have to communicate via chat. So it's very interesting and it's different. And they also made kids on bikes, for example, which is this cool 80s style adventure that has this fresh atmosphere of having fun and being a young teenager during a summer, while just being on a holiday and enjoying the time with your friends.
Anna:I feel like Hunter's Entertainment is just a company that covers a lot of the same ground that we want to cover and they have similar values and they have similar expectations and I don't know just general I don't want to use the word vibe but we have similar outlooks on what we can do as a company and how our games would be best presented, because we have some big plans. We have plans and I can't talk about them. It's very hard to answer this question without spilling the beans, but I'm contractually obligated not to spill the beans. That's okay. Rest assured, we are very excited to partner up with Hunter's Entertainment and we have so many great things planned. I can't wait to be able to tell people about them, but it's coming. It's going to come in a couple months, I hope all the announcements and it's going to be great and it's going to be amazing, but I can't tell you more. I'm sorry.
Courtney:That's okay. I'm just excited, it's like a little tease and I'm just like, oh okay.
Anna:Yes, I'm afraid a little teasing is all I can do in this case. It's just a teaser trailer. The proper trailers will arrive later. Perfect.
Courtney:You'll just leave all of us wanting more. Well, I guess to go to stuff you can't talk about. I would love it to just dig into the other things that you all have been up to with double proficiency in the last couple of years. I mean, I got like, when we last talked, there was Herbalist Primer and then you had like a couple of things out in the works. But I know that there's been a lot more happening, so I just love to get into that.
Anna:Yeah, I was mostly focused on my books, but Jakob was working very hard on his projects and I'm extremely excited to be able to talk about them more, because he was mostly working on aphelion RPG, which is our. Well, it used to be more hard sci-fi, I think at this time it's more I don't know punk sci-fi. So this Aphelion is going to be a really cool, somewhat of a strategy RPG in which you will be a part of the freelancer crew just trying to make a living at the outskirts of the solar system in the Oort cloud, and then Pluto and Karon and all of those amazing little planetoids that have been turned into, let's call it, the last civilized port. So it's going to have somewhat of a atmosphere of shadow run, but in space and without magic, just with things that we can arrive at with science, and it's going to be a game of heists, of exploration, and it's all set up on a very unique I'm going to say unique system that allows you to just create the game as you play it, and it's very focused on player agency and you get to create your own skills and your own gear.
Anna:It has a robust crafting system, which is something I am very excited about because I love tweedling with my characters and their possessions, and it's not something that you actually can do in RPGs because, even if they come with a crafting system, like, for example, pathfinder, crafting is very short changed and you don't actually get to do it because the best option is always to just buy what you need. And Apollyon is much more do it yourself style. It comes with full system of generating scenarios and you can generate campaigns in the world by using tables and procedural generation. And it's amazing and I would love to get Jakub to talk about it one day, because it's his baby and as excited as I am about it, and I can't wait for this to be out in the open because we are just running some play tests, so I get to be a part of nice spaceship crew. I am a navigator. It's awesome and I would love to be able to tell you guys more, but it's still in the works. Soon. It's one of those soon things.
Courtney:If you are able to say is it something that you all are going to kickstart or just release without kickstarting?
Anna:No, I think it's going to have a crowdfunding campaign as well, because it's just what works in the current situation of the industry just releasing things on their own. If you are not a major brand, it's very hard, and Kickstarter gives you this marketing boost. But Jakub was also meanwhile well, he was writing, I think I was doing the layout and illustrations. We've been working on a series of Waferers decks meanwhile, so I think by now we have like 700 of adventure seats, all illustrated and packaged into 50 card decks for various occasions. So we have a deck of encounters underground, for example, or at a court, or a Gothic horror style encounters, so you can just grab a deck and drop them into any game. It just comes with this adventure seed without any solutions and any game statistics, so you can just use it in any game you want to play. So you know adventures for sailors or for air sailors, because airships are cool underground kingdoms full of mermaids. We have a bunch of those decks.
Anna:And Jakub was also working on a bunch of small add-ons duelists and conqueror one for playing out one-on-one duels, for example between players or if you're doing some kind of tournament during a game, and another for full-scale warfare. So that's actually very useful, because there are many RPG campaigns that introduce some war elements, but not many of those systems actually come with something that allows the players to participate in this war conflict, because it's either hundreds of orcs on one side or the players just doing something completely different while the war is going on and conqueror actually allows people to participate in all the encounters and still be the heroes of the story while the events are unfolding.
Courtney:Well, I would actually I would love you know like I'm even looking at it right now but I would love to just hear about, like an example of how the battle strategy like, or how the actual gameplay mechanics work in this battle add-on.
Anna:Oh yeah, absolutely Well, in conqueror, players are given stats for specific units on a battlefield and we designed some small cards, like index cards, that you can just put all the statistics of the unit on and then you can assemble them on a table like you're playing a war game, but just with pieces of paper, and meanwhile the player characters, who are supposed to be the main element of the story, are participating in something like battle events.
Anna:So while the grand story is happening and all those units that are shown by those pieces of paper are clashing and the math is winning on their side, the player characters get to change how the tide turns and they can influence the mathematics by participating in battle events, for example, for going on a special excursion to deal with enemy officer or focus on healing and participating in special events that will, for example, bolster the ranks of their units.
Anna:And at the same time, jakub has also incorporated a type of I'm not going to use the trademark name because I think it's trademarked but the system where a single extra on the enemy side can evolve into being an officer or later into an actual nemesis of our protagonist, and they can also turn the tide of battle. So you have this tug of war while the war is going on. Thanks to that, you have mechanics that allow the player characters, who are the heroes, to change the inevitable result of just simple math of two opposing armies in which the stronger one should win. But thanks to the player characters, it doesn't have to, because they can turn the fate into something that actually works for them. I think that's the short version.
Courtney:Yeah, that's so cool. I'm so intrigued on testing this out because I feel like there's a lot of people that have tried to homebrew mechanics, or even you'll watch actual plays of people like oh, there's a battle scene and this is how it's working, and you're like I mean that kind of works, but oh my gosh, that sounds really complicated and how do you keep track of that? But this sounds really digestible.
Anna:Yeah, and it's outside of the battles. It also comes with some simple mechanics for dealing with stuff like food and, you know, supply chains for that war going on, because there are more ways to winning a war than just winning a battle. But again, those are simple and very easy to implement, mechanics that allow you to just keep track of what's happening during that armed conflict without having to do too much accounting, because, as much as I personally love accounting and personal finance, most people don't.
Courtney:That's fair. So I know that you said that you aren't doing as much freelance as you were before, but you did work with hatchling games and I am a huge fan of everything that's happening over there. I've been working with the over Isles. I'd spend a long time just like with you, but I did once upon a time also interview rich too. But yeah, I just I would love to know like how that partnership came to be and like what it was that you were helping with.
Anna:I was working on the layout for inspirals and over Isles. I do not, unfortunately, have the time to take care of the layout of all of their books, which is something, yes, I wish I could, but I have other responsibilities in my life, unfortunately. I mean, you know, I do enjoy what I do, but, yes, I was doing the layout for inspirals. I do not really remember how it started. I think Richard reached out to me no pun intended this time, we will get back to that. Probably at some point. He reached out to me on Twitter, I think, or I don't know. He just contacted me because he was looking for a layout artist and I absolutely fell in love with the whole project of inspirals.
Anna:I literally from the Irish and the King Arthur influences to the amazing, incredible idea of connecting RPGs with sign language. At the time it was, I think, only the British sign language, but the project was so successful that they incorporated the American one as well. And, as much as I did not experience deafness in my life, I was always very strongly in support of, for example, british National Deaf Children's Society in UK that I was supporting as it was my charity of choice when I was living in the UK. I just completely fell in love with this project and I was so honoured to be the person doing the layout for this book. And, of course, as soon as the news about the over Isles landed, I just sent Richard a message of hey, do you need a layout artist? Please, please, please. I want to do this. And well, yes, they did. So this over Isles is also with my layout. We'll see what the future holds, but I am in love with this project and I would like to support it as much as I can.
Courtney:Yeah, that's really cool. I had known that you were the layout designer, but I also forgot Like, oh yeah, I remember seeing at his name, like when the next book came out, I was like the layout designer and was like, oh yeah, sweet, okay. Well, I know that. I mean, we've talked a little bit about just how much has changed for you guys over the last couple of years. So I want to bring back some questions that I asked last time, because things have changed. So at this point, when you look back over the last two years and everything that's gone on, everything that you're doing, everything that's coming up in the future, like what would you say has been some of like the harder parts of getting through all of this?
Anna:That's gonna be a bit of a bummer, but my health mostly gave out. I have an autoimmune disorder and it's been a challenge because I have arthritis in my hands and the drawing is sometimes very much a pain. So I think mostly that it's not a fun answer. I know I wish it could be better but unfortunately this is the hardest part of the last two years. I've been struggling with my health quite a bit.
Courtney:Okay, for one thing, I don't ever expect you know what's been hard, what's been challenging, to be a fun answer, like you know it's. I asked this question because I like to recognize that you know we do these things because we love them. However, it's not easy, you know like there's stuff that happens. I mean it's health. I can certainly empathize with how challenging dealing with health issues is when you're trying to, you know, make a business and do these things even though you love them. So, if you don't mind, I would love to ask what are some ways that you've found to balance, like taking care of yourself with still working on these projects and doing what you love?
Anna:Yeah, I'd say this is also still work in progress. I'm somewhat of a workaholic and I find it very hard for myself to take breaks, so I mostly have Jakub to tell me to just you know, go for a walk. I do struggle with just letting myself take a break and not stress over something, so I mostly refer to my, let's say, third party support network of telling me to just take a break and maybe not work through the pain, just let myself rest.
Courtney:Yeah, I can understand that like wanting to push through, but also like, oh, if I keep pushing through, it's just going to make it worse.
Anna:Yes, I had my therapist telling me that I should treat myself like a car and actually put in some effort for maintenance so it doesn't break down. But we still disagree on this point. But I'm working through this, so it's going to be fine.
Courtney:Well, I hope that you know you are able to take the time that you need to rest in between all of your drawings.
Anna:Yes, I did not work today at all. That's good. I repainted the bathroom.
Courtney:So how? I don't feel like that's resting your hands, but okay.
Anna:It was not. It was not. I promise to take a break after this recording and go watch Nimona.
Courtney:Okay, good, Okay. Well, on the flip side again, looking over the last couple of years, since everything changed and has grown, what would you say have been some of the most rewarding parts?
Anna:I think I had this massive shift in my brain because I have spent most of my life, you know, reading all of those cool books on folklore and on witchcraft and on natural sciences and I never actually had anybody to tell all those things to Like I became a librarian to tell people about cool books and what's inside them, but I never actually worked in my field of education and now I have realized that there is actually plenty of people who will listen to all of those stories and it's such a massive privilege and so much fun to share them with people Like I feel listened to every now and again. I think this is the most rewarding fact that I found people who will, with me, geek out over all of those cool botany facts or I don't know cool tidbits of crystal lore, and it just feels like I found my tribe.
Courtney:That is honestly really special and I remember when you first started posting about like oh, I'm drawing these flowers and these herbs and kind of thinking of doing this thing, would anyone be interested? And everyone was like oh, my God, yes. And you're like wait, really Okay.
Anna:I was very much taken aback then. Yes, I did not expect this type of response, but it has been surprising me throughout the last three years. It is settling down and it is finally connecting that, yes, there are multiple other people that will, just like me, hyper focus on cool plants and will find all of those tidbits of information that I have stored in my brain and they are always just bursting, you know to be shared. There are people who will listen, and it's such a massive privilege to be in this position.
Courtney:Yeah, I love it. Okay, so I don't. I'm the answer to this. It might be no, but are there any upcoming projects we haven't talked about that you're allowed to talk about?
Anna:Hmm, hmm. Well, the primers are supposed to be a whole series. Now it's not just one book, now it's not even two books. We have a whole line set up. I mean, I don't know what order the books are actually going to appear in, because again I have to see what actually holds my interest for a year. But there is a whole lineup that's excellent. Just the order might change. Yes, it is exciting and I would absolutely be delighted to write those books for years to come, maybe even decades, and then have them nicely arranged on my bookshelf, you know, with all matching spines.
Courtney:Yes, absolutely.
Anna:So I think that's the one that actually got announced so far, so I can talk about that. Yeah, the rest will have to wait.
Courtney:Awesome. Well, I know that social media is in a little bit of an upheaval right now, but at least, as of today, people want to find you double proficiency, all of your cool books, where should they go?
Anna:Yes, you can always find us on our website, which is doubleproficiencycom, but we are also on almost all social media under double proficiency or 2x proficiency if the previous one was way too long. So we are mostly on Twitter and on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok as of now we are TikTok-ing and we have a YouTube channel, which is also under double proficiency and very easy to find and there is a link tree if you don't want to get lost anywhere. We have a bunch of stuff and our YouTube channel is really fun because I strong arm Jakub to record with me, which makes it an absolute blast and very chaotic.
Courtney:Yes, I will be sure to have links in the show notes. Thank you, Anna. Thank you so much for coming on today. At this point we are going to wrap up the interview and then, after I stop recording, I'm going to record again and do a fun little quick question blitz that is exclusive to my Patreon supporters. So if you look for RoleplayGrow on Patreon, you'll find us and be able to hear Anna answer a bunch of silly questions in a little short segment. But again, thank you so much for coming on. It was so good to catch up with you it was great.
Anna:We should do it more often.
Courtney:Yes, I would like it to not wait two years before I talk to you again.
Anna:You know where to find me. I'm always somewhere on some socials.
Courtney:Perfect. You just finished another episode of RoleplayGrow, so check out the show notes and transcript from today's episode. You can go to lightheartadventurescom slash rpg To keep up with every episode. Please subscribe on your podcast player of choice and, if you're enjoying the show, I would absolutely love if you would leave me a review and share this episode with your friends. Your review might even get featured on an upcoming episode. To follow me on Twitter, you can either find me at Lightheartadv for our business account or at KetraRPG for tweets on gaming, madag Bowser and other random shenanigans. You can also find me on Patreon at RoleplayGrow. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time on RoleplayGrow.