SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the C3 Podcast.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Austin Weiss, and joining me on today's podcasts are some of C3's finest.
SPEAKER_00: We have uh on this podcast, we have Rachel Bontrager, our financial administrator here at the church.
SPEAKER_00: Say hi, Rachel.
SPEAKER_03: Hi.
SPEAKER_00: We have Doug Greek, one of our elders.
SPEAKER_00: Doug Greek is here.
SPEAKER_00: So glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And we have our worship minister, Creighton Tamarius, is also here.
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Creighton.
SPEAKER_00: And man, just very excited for each of you to be joining me in this conversation today.
SPEAKER_00: As we're we're diving deeper into our core values as a church to go along with this summer series that we've been doing called Vital Signs.
SPEAKER_00: And so here at C3, we see here at C3, we believe the words of Jesus when he says that he's come to give us life and life to the full.
SPEAKER_00: And so throughout this series and throughout these discussions, we're kind of talking about what does that full life really look like?
SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to live a life fully alive in Jesus?
SPEAKER_00: What is this life that he's offering us?
SPEAKER_00: And that leads us into these core value statements as a church.
SPEAKER_00: And the goal is for these statements not just to be true for us as a church, but also for us as individuals.
SPEAKER_00: Like not just a collective truth, but also an individual truth for us.
SPEAKER_00: So you'll hear us say that it's not just we need statements, but also I need statements as well.
SPEAKER_00: So and today we're talking about this need, our need to give.
SPEAKER_00: And not just as a church as a whole, but as individuals, not just we need to give, but I need to give.
SPEAKER_00: And this the conversation really kind of centers around uh two main ways what we kind of want to talk about today is uh in ways we need to give.
SPEAKER_00: First, we need to give like financially the the issue of stewardship.
SPEAKER_00: And then second, we need to give uh with the different ways that God has has gifted us and as far as talents and and um yeah, gifts of the spirit.
SPEAKER_00: So the second issue is an issue of service.
SPEAKER_00: Um and now when we say we need to give, undoubtedly, people have all kinds of different feelings that come up when it comes to this, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So, Doug, I'm actually going to come to you with this um as the long-standing member of this of this discussion.
SPEAKER_00: You know, you've been at been at Cardville for several years.
SPEAKER_00: So, like what comes to your mind whenever you think people have like when when they when they come to this discussion, when they hear somebody say in church specifically, you need to give, you know, we need to give, or I need to give, what's their natural disposition to that, or what's their natural response to that?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think you know, looking at where they are in their life at the time, I think has really um that effect on what they are thinking about that when they're asked to give.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, people that are just coming out newly married, maybe come to church and they just they just don't have a lot.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Um and it that's hard.
SPEAKER_01: And you know, you walk into the church and and you're barely making it day to day, and then they're asking, hey, why don't you give to the church?
SPEAKER_01: And I think that reaction is very different from somebody that's maybe been in the church for 40 years, um, that are in a different stage of life, um, mature in their life, um, then that question becomes, yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do.
SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_01: I love to do that.
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I just think it really depends on you know where you're at um in your walk with God, uh, whether it's early on, maybe it's late later in life.
SPEAKER_01: Um there's times that I've sat in church and sometimes I I get a little squimished when uh that is brought because I'm thinking, well, this person beside me, I I've never seen this person before.
SPEAKER_01: This may be the first person, the first time they've been here.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, here we go.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And I just think that's what they're thinking.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I just they people at church, they just want, they just want my money.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Every church is the same.
SPEAKER_00: They're all gonna all just want to get my money, right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Rachel, what would you say?
SPEAKER_00: What's what are you what have you seen have been people's first response when it comes to this conversation about giving?
SPEAKER_05: I think I'll speak for myself.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Um, there are points in a service when you've been going to church for a long time where you do kind of tune out, you're like, I'm there.
SPEAKER_05: I've I've got it covered.
SPEAKER_05: I tithed yesterday, so we're good.
SPEAKER_05: I don't need to hear this.
SPEAKER_05: And there are times when I'm I sit down to give a gift, and I know my heart's not right.
SPEAKER_05: And so I'm I'm gonna wait until the next day because God talks about a cheerful giver.
SPEAKER_05: And so for me personally, it can be sensitive at times.
SPEAKER_05: I've been a Christian for a long time and I've been coming to church and giving for a long time.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and it really depends on my heart posture, on a season of life, what's going on.
SPEAKER_05: Um, sometimes even in little, it's easy to give, and then sometimes you have enough and it's hard to give.
SPEAKER_05: So so it it just really depends.
SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, speaking for myself, I I don't I don't know that I can gauge everyone around me.
SPEAKER_05: I can speculate, but that that is a personal experience of mine.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's yeah, the second Corinthians, not out of obligation, not out of um, yeah, like this, this feeling like I have to whatever I have to like perform at this certain way, but God loves a cheerful giver, somebody who comes with with joy with it.
SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Creighton?
SPEAKER_00: What's what comes to your mind?
SPEAKER_04: We uh we know that Jesus talked more about money than heaven, hell, and prayer.
SPEAKER_04: And I I think a lot of people that have gone to church anytime know that, but they still feel like it's just one more thing to do, and it probably bogs them down.
SPEAKER_04: So I think people are annoyed or or check out um when it's not communicated that this is part of your your worship and uh and just part of your your daily rhythm of being a Christian and a Christ follower, and so it it it can be, but I think that's usually our our worldly selves coming in rather than than the Lord.
SPEAKER_04: I've actually seen churches explain it well more times than not, and so whenever I've had a problem with it, it's actually been more of me, same as Rachel was saying, than than what it's ever been on how it's been communicated.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: I think it it kind of comes back to this whole our all of our core values kind of start with this central one at the very beginning that we need Jesus, and if we're just jumping straight to this discussion, we need to give, but we have not covered the base of we need Jesus, and we haven't come to understand the truth of his gospel, then it then this is all gonna be skewed.
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I guess that leads us into this next question.
SPEAKER_00: What like what is like how does our understanding of the gospel shape our thinking of and of how we need to give?
SPEAKER_00: Rachel, I think I'm gonna come to you first on this one.
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you move beyond that feeling of give be give because you should, or and instead give because he first gave.
SPEAKER_00: Like there's because I think that naturally leads into what we're already talking about, right?
SPEAKER_00: The cheerful giver stuff is really it all all centers around this.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you go.
SPEAKER_05: No, that's okay.
SPEAKER_05: Um I think you have to be dwelling on the gospel in order to make that shift in your mind.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's not just giving money, but giving time, energy, effort.
SPEAKER_05: Um we have to consider the lengths that God went to to get to us, you know, to save us.
SPEAKER_05: I was reading um in Mark 15 the other day, and I don't know why it stuck with me, but the curtain being torn into that impossible feat that only Jesus could accomplish in his obedience, the curtain was thick and heavy and tall, and it tore from top to bottom.
SPEAKER_05: And God went to those lengths to separate that barrier between he and us.
SPEAKER_05: And so when I'm dwelling on truth like that, it it's easy, you know, it's an easy response to give away my time, my money.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and I think reframing it from we need to give to we get to give.
SPEAKER_05: Um I think there are so many aspects of my life that I am called to be a steward of my kids or my home or my job, and I can begrudge it.
SPEAKER_05: But when I have a perspective shift of man, I ask God for this.
SPEAKER_05: I asked God for these kids, and here I am whining about taking care of them.
SPEAKER_05: But then I can change my mind and fix my fix my or capture my thoughts um and make them captive to the gospel, the truth that Jesus gave everything.
SPEAKER_05: And he didn't want to.
SPEAKER_05: You know, he begged God to take it away, and he was obedient because it was the will of God.
SPEAKER_05: And so um I hope that makes sense.
SPEAKER_05: But it's a perspective thing for me.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00: The perspective changes when it's I think when I just think about the God who didn't have to, but still willingly did, anyways, give him give completely of himself, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Create what comes to your mind when you think about having a full understanding of the gospel, how that shapes your generosity.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's not not a favor that we do for a buddy, like we just had a big storm come through, and so you're helping people pick up limbs.
SPEAKER_04: Like giving to the church and to the Lord is not a favor we're doing for him because he that's the only way, that's his only plan is us giving.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: We're the ones that benefit from it and from selflessly giving.
SPEAKER_04: And and I think we know when it switches from obligation to worship is when we let go of it.
SPEAKER_04: What is our our feeling?
SPEAKER_04: Because the Lord can use it even out of our selfish giving or our obligation.
SPEAKER_04: It is, are there strings attached to it?
SPEAKER_04: I think sometimes it's oh my goodness, I can't believe that they're doing this.
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna stop giving.
SPEAKER_04: That's the first threat when someone's frustrated sometime.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: And and that's an obligation when there's there's strings that come attached to it.
SPEAKER_04: When it's worship, it doesn't mean that you don't be you shouldn't hold your church to be wise and accountable to the way that they're using finances, but um when it's a weapon or yeah, or something rather than you know, I'm gonna trust that the same Lord that that uh urged me to give is also the same God that is leading the leaders, the elders, the staff members to use these finances in in that way.
SPEAKER_04: And I trust that the Lord that is leading them doesn't always tell me the way that he's leading leading others.
SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of trust that comes with releasing it, but uh giving and not not holding on to it a little bit with with stipulations we put on it.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the yeah, that whole premise of God doesn't need this from me, but at the same time, he wants this for me.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think like in a lot of ways, money can be the the chief chief uh distraction of the of the enemy, you know, is like stuff.
SPEAKER_00: Like just let me just give them a bunch of stuff and let them start to worship this and take their eyes off of the one who can truly satisfy, you know.
SPEAKER_04: Well, we see Mark 12 where the woman is giving those two coins that are don't compare at all to what other people were giving, and Jesus says that she is the most faithful giver.
SPEAKER_04: And so it shows that the the amount is actually not it that is different for each person to what they can steward, but it's it's the heart of the giver.
SPEAKER_04: And that woman, I guarantee you, was m more worshipful in that moment and actually was more fulfilled than than others who may have just been fulfilled for a second.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I would take it take it this way.
SPEAKER_00: So, Doug, to you, what kind of like um like I think a lot of times the there's a word used in in scripture or when we talk about money specifically and giving of your finances that's like the word stewardship is is used.
SPEAKER_00: Why would we use the word stewardship?
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, this is an off the off the cuff question right now, but why would we use the word stewardship of all the words we could use?
SPEAKER_00: Um like what is what does that teach us about who like who the owner is and yeah, um that kind of that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I mean when you when you think about that word stewardship, the first thing that comes to my mind is that I've been giving something to do something with.
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it's my choice to do what I want to with it.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So when you know God gives me all the things that He gives me, money, whatever it is that He gives me, um, I think it's up to me to decide how am I going to use that.
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I think He gives us that freedom to do that.
SPEAKER_01: I think that's where how much we care about and how much we love what God has done for us, are we willing to then give back, whether it's time, money, what whatever we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01: But that's what's when I hear the word steward, it's it's up to me to decide on what I'm gonna do with that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the like there's a yeah, just we when we have that word steward, then we know, yeah, this was God's in the first place, and it it is going to be, I'm not taking it with me, you know, whatever, yeah, whatever the case may be, right?
SPEAKER_00: I'm not taking my time on on to the next life with me, and I'm not taking these treasures with me, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So how am I going to use them in what in what manner am I going am I going to use them?
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think sometimes, sometimes uh maybe it's tempting to say, well, like what we already talked about, right?
SPEAKER_00: A young couple coming in, trying to still paying off debt for school or uh whatever, trying to deal with the crazy house payment that they have because the house payments are nuts right now, whatever, and trying to figure out like how can we be generous?
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times it's just like, well, we can be generous with our time, we can serve, right?
SPEAKER_00: And so they say, This is how we're going to be generous.
SPEAKER_00: But is there something missing if somebody, I don't know, this is another off-the-cuff question.
SPEAKER_00: Is there something missing if somebody's like, I'll be generous in this way?
SPEAKER_00: This is the way I want to be generous, this is the way I can be generous right now, but I'm not going to stretch myself to be generous here.
SPEAKER_00: Is there something they're missing?
SPEAKER_00: If I don't, that's a I literally just came up with that question right now.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm throwing this out.
SPEAKER_00: Like, because I think I would I have advised different people in our church at different times, you know, hey, if you're unable to give in a crazy financial way, there's God has still given you the ability to be to be giving and generous sacrificially.
SPEAKER_00: But are they missing out because they're like, well, this is the way that I give to the church is by serving and not by jumping in.
SPEAKER_00: Or or the opposite, I give, because I'm writing this check every week, you know, but I'm not involved serving.
SPEAKER_00: Like, is it are they unlike not complete?
SPEAKER_00: Is one not complete without the other?
SPEAKER_00: Creighton, what do you think?
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh I am not a natural financially generous person.
SPEAKER_04: Thankfully, my wife is incredibly and I I'm recovering.
SPEAKER_04: I say I'm recovering from being cheap.
SPEAKER_04: I think I've graduated almost to frugal, is my is my goal.
SPEAKER_04: And there were times, yeah, where both of us are married in college and living in an apartment.
SPEAKER_04: I'm working at a church, she's working part-time somewhere, and or you just go through different stretches in your life where there's a week where both of our cars got in car accidents and everything is going on, and and I'm thankful that that Jenny was there to be like, no, this is not what is is falling off, is our our gifts to to the Lord and to the church.
SPEAKER_04: Um it's not the first thing to go when life life gets hard.
SPEAKER_04: There are other things, and we I have never missed a scent that we that we have given.
SPEAKER_04: I've I've regretted not doing it whenever I've I have, you know, either not mentioned something to her or or kept anything for myself.
SPEAKER_04: And so um there has not ever been a time where where it's been easy that what he's asked us to give, but um it is always provided not just in I mean not that someone just handed us a check the next week by any means.
SPEAKER_04: That's not how how he blessed us, but just realizing that that we didn't miss it and what we would have spent the money on was actually not nearly as fulfilling as as following him in whatever amount that was.
SPEAKER_04: So having her and other other people around me that are generous examples of that were incredible and beneficial.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Rachel?
SPEAKER_05: I think um God invites us.
SPEAKER_05: So he invites us to serve, he invites us to give financially.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's an invitation is something you can accept or decline.
SPEAKER_05: Um so I think if we're missing out, it's on us.
SPEAKER_05: Um if we choose to only serve with our time in our hands and not give because of fear, there is something that we're missing out.
SPEAKER_05: We're missing out on the experience of trusting God and um seeing how he provides.
SPEAKER_05: I think there's a a way that you can see that that only happens when you trust him, when it doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_05: Um and to the person only giving financially, unwilling to give their time, I think the same is true.
SPEAKER_05: There's there's certain things that you can only experience by giving your time and your effort and your energy away physically.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: So I think it's an a both and um we've gotta be doing we've gotta be doing both, even though it's scary or even though it's costly.
SPEAKER_05: It was never promised to be easy when we give of ourselves, but it's always worth it.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: So it does, there's a cost there.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And I I I think to just come to my mind now, thinking through that question, you know, we're called to be cheerful givers.
SPEAKER_01: And if we are not, are we kind of putting ourselves in the same spot?
SPEAKER_01: If we're doing it out of obligation, are we putting ourselves in the same spot as not doing it at all?
SPEAKER_01: Um, is that just as bad to not be joyful, a cheerful giver, or just not give at all?
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not saying don't give, I'm just saying when I, you know, how does God look at that?
SPEAKER_01: Um because we're called both ways on that.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, and I'm when I'm when I'm thinking about that question, like, are we missing out on something?
SPEAKER_00: It's ultimately like the the fullness of what God has to offer, like this full life that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00: We believe that Jesus has come to give you life and life to the full.
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to explain on to somebody who hasn't experienced that, you know, because it doesn't make sense in our world, you know, it just doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00: But this is whole, like according to the teaching of scripture, God doesn't need anything from us.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: If he needed something from us, then then that changes who he is, like fundamentally.
SPEAKER_00: No, he is completely, completely self-sufficient, you know, does not need anything from us.
SPEAKER_00: But he wants desperately our hearts, you know, to be drawn to him, and and he's it's why he is drawn near to us, you know, is because he loves us, right?
SPEAKER_00: So so why do you think this is why do you think let's go specifically on like the the issue of like generosity when it comes to finances, and then we'll move on to to a different different side of this conversation.
SPEAKER_00: Why is it so hard, and yet why is it so important, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think Rachel might come to you.
SPEAKER_00: Like, why is it so hard for somebody to maybe take take that first step of of trusting the Lord?
SPEAKER_00: Um, or maybe, maybe even like personally, like why are there moments that it's hard?
SPEAKER_00: And we've already kind of touched on it a little bit, but then why is it so vital?
SPEAKER_00: Why is it we're talking about vital signs?
SPEAKER_00: Why is this an important thing?
SPEAKER_05: It's hard because money does run out and get tight.
SPEAKER_05: That's just true.
SPEAKER_05: That is, and I think that personally, there have been times when I have put myself in a situation where that's the case.
SPEAKER_05: I I am the one who who made this choice or this purchase and and ended up in this spot where this is pretty uncomfy now.
SPEAKER_05: Um so I have a choice to make here.
SPEAKER_05: Um and so I think there's a little bit of shame that's attached to that sometimes where man, I I did this and I'm I'm in a hole, I'm digging myself out of.
SPEAKER_05: Um and I just that that to me is when I have to check my heart.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, what am I gonna keep doing?
SPEAKER_05: Am I gonna keep living in shame and fear?
SPEAKER_05: Or am I gonna do what God asked me to do?
SPEAKER_05: Am I going to partner with him financially and watch him do what I've watched him do over and over again?
SPEAKER_05: And so I think the vital part is.
SPEAKER_05: Um it's just that invitation piece that that he's invited us, not for his sake but for ours.
SPEAKER_05: And so um we miss out on that fullness when we live in fear and we miss out on opportunities to watch him even in our um mistakes help us to recover and help us to bounce back and provide for us in only ways that he can in our obedience.
SPEAKER_05: So I think it's hard because life is it's tricky.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And it's hard because we make it hard sometimes.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um I think not being able to be in control um probably for me is the hardest part.
SPEAKER_01: Um I like to, you know, if I don't know, control i I I have a problem with control.
SPEAKER_01: I I like to be in control of the things, especially when it's relating to my family.
SPEAKER_01: Because like Rachel said, you have to have money.
SPEAKER_01: It's a big part of your life to survive and do provide for your family, all those types of things.
SPEAKER_01: Um but there's so many times when we may not have had the money, but we still gave.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And we still had money at the end of the month, you know.
SPEAKER_01: And there's so many times that it just it just kind of blows your mind.
SPEAKER_01: It's like, wait a minute, the electric bill was only$100 this month instead of$200 a month?
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was kind of weird.
SPEAKER_01: Um but really it's not weird when you step back and think about it.
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
SPEAKER_01: Um but but yeah, I I think just being able to give up control and just allow God to to um just freely give to us.
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of hard to accept sometimes too.
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, I wasn't very good this week.
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if he's gonna provide for me this week.
SPEAKER_01: But he always does.
SPEAKER_01: He's always there.
SPEAKER_01: Um so just just being able to give up that control, I think, is what what drives us in.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's you know, kind of what or how we survive, that's our vital sign.
SPEAKER_01: It's like I've got to be able to give up control to let God give it back to me and just provide for what I need.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: Great in what he would say.
SPEAKER_04: It's just against what the world tells you.
SPEAKER_04: It's like you received this money, you should use it, you should like you shouldn't give it away.
SPEAKER_04: All of those things is we worked for that, that's ours.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Um there's no reason why anyone that doesn't love the Lord would be generous, same as being humble or serve others.
SPEAKER_04: And so uh I think that's why it's hard, is because we all have a a squeaky wheel that's taking us towards that worldly selfish feeling.
SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, it's it's trusting that the Lord knows actually what is fulfilling to us.
SPEAKER_04: And most generous people I know, I don't think they would call themselves generous because they it's just out of the overflow of what they're already doing that that they're like, yeah, why would I not?
SPEAKER_04: Like the Lord asked me to, and he's been good to me before, and he's gonna continue to be good to me.
SPEAKER_04: And so just fulfillment and being united with the Lord in all things, um, and that hits closest to home typically in people's finances.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I think there's like there's another aspect to this conversation that I want to get us into, is kind of like like, yeah, we need to give, but it's it's not just we already talked about it a little bit, it's not just financially, but it's also the the Lord has gifted us with time and resources, all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00: But also we believe that that the Bible teaches clearly that the Lord has gifted all of us with different spiritual gifts and that we're all members of one body together.
SPEAKER_00: So, like if you're not bringing your spiritual gift, then then the body is suffering of, you know, because we need we need each other's gifts.
SPEAKER_00: And it's this whole kind of premise of we all have something to bring to the table.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's some people, some people who don't feel that way, though, you know, like, yeah, but I can't serve like them, or I can't, I can't sing like him, or I can't, you know, I can't teach like that person, or I can't um whatever.
SPEAKER_00: I whatever the fill in the blank might be, I can't do that thing.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what would you what would you say?
SPEAKER_00: Like, how has God uniquely uniquely gifted, um, uniquely gifted his people to serve his church?
SPEAKER_00: Create, what would you what would you say?
SPEAKER_04: Um well, I think it first starts with us believing that we were created to do it, that it is there's some things that if you call yourself a Christian and follow the Lord, that means that there is an assumption that you will be this.
SPEAKER_04: And this is Philippians 2, that we consider people greater than our ourselves, and Ephesians 2 that we were created to do these good works.
SPEAKER_04: And so um, and if we're created in the image of God, then we actually are created to to worship our creator in in serving others, and so um the first is just believing that it is for you because it's for for everybody.
SPEAKER_04: And I I do think whenever someone comes to a genuine place of that and they're like, Okay, now what does that look like?
SPEAKER_04: Some don't know that that their gifts are something that can actually be used by the church because there's there's some I'm I'm in worship ministry, some of those skills are a little bit easier to to see because they're displayed every single single week.
SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh and so finding um areas, and you can sometimes wish that you had them.
SPEAKER_04: That's the first concern of the passage that you wish you could do something that someone else is doing.
SPEAKER_04: Um, but asking the Lord, what how have you created me me to to serve you?
SPEAKER_04: And so um I think you just if you pray that the Lord will actually provide you with people on your mind for for how to serve and and who to serve.
SPEAKER_04: Um and then the other is if is realizing just what is the Lord made you passionate about and how can you use that for for him?
SPEAKER_04: Is it um people that just want to work with their hands?
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well have your eye out for people that that need something or when a a place to volunteer comes from, or um if it's uh we have uh Aaron on our team loves helping people with financial advice and kind of guiding, and she does an incredible job with that.
SPEAKER_04: And uh security team, the people that want to being around being around kids, serving students.
SPEAKER_04: Um where is the Lord giving you passion and then how can you s use that to serve the Lord and his kingdom?
SPEAKER_04: I think are are the easiest ways to do that, and you just find freedom that comes from doing something that the Lord has equipped you to do for him, is just unlocking all of all of those levels.
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, um, because if he created you with that passion, I think he's as long as it's not a a sinful passion, um he's created a way for you to serve the kingdom in that way.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And it's exciting, I think it's exciting too when to think about.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna come to you two with this question like what what happens, what do you see, what happens in the church when people start to discover their gifts and and realize, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Like it starts to click.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do have something to give here, I do have something to bring to the table.
SPEAKER_00: Rachel, what would you say?
SPEAKER_05: I think it's like a little fire that catches.
SPEAKER_05: Like I love talking about this because I I can think of like Sammy, um, our friend Sammy, who is a really wonderful communicator, especially to kids.
SPEAKER_05: And I love watching her speak to kids because she is doing the work that God has called her to do, that God made her to do.
SPEAKER_05: And it's so apparent, and it makes me want to think like, God, what have you designed me to do?
SPEAKER_05: I think it I think it's a a compounding situation where you see someone walking in their gifts, and not only walking in their gifts, but using their gifts to serve others.
SPEAKER_05: That is a there's a yeah, there's a fire that catches.
SPEAKER_05: That's the only way that I can describe that.
SPEAKER_05: Like it's it's very contagious, I think.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's birthed from like so.
SPEAKER_00: Somebody could see like that same situation.
SPEAKER_00: Somebody could see, could be in your shoes and see see Sammy teaching, but then think, I could never do that, right?
SPEAKER_00: So there's something the common denominator hat here has to be humility, you know, because right, the first Corinthians 12 passages, the hand is not looking at the foot saying, I don't need you, which is a prideful thing, right?
SPEAKER_00: To say, I don't need you, right?
SPEAKER_00: I can do this on my own.
SPEAKER_00: But then it's also like not looking at the at the foot and saying, Um, I could never, oh man, I'm woe is me, I can never be you.
SPEAKER_00: Which is insecurity, but it's actually another form of pride again, right?
SPEAKER_00: Which is just like so humility has to be at at the core of it too, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's when, yeah, when it's like, well, I'm not gifted like that, but I'm gifted in a different way, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the fire catches.
SPEAKER_05: And I think something that is so important is when you see somebody doing that, when you see someone come alive in their gifts, you have to tell them.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you have to speak it because they might be thinking, oh, that was the worst that I've ever done at that thing that I actually love.
SPEAKER_05: You know, somebody is doing something, they're passionate about it, but doesn't feel confident for whatever reason.
SPEAKER_05: You have to speak it to them, you have to encourage.
SPEAKER_05: And I think that's what we're meant to do within the church for sure.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Like, I love the way that you loved those babies today, or whatever it might be, or you did such a great job leading worship, and I could feel the spirit moving because you were walking in a gift that God gave you.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um, you know, when you start thinking about our mission to reach the lost, I think there's so many areas that you can put yourself into.
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, whether that is here at the church volunteering, um, saying hello when somebody walks in the door at the church, or it's it's out and about, it's out in your job.
SPEAKER_01: It it's there's so many places that people need the Lord and they're hurting that you can set yourself into and just be somebody that loves them.
SPEAKER_01: Um gifts don't have to be so outward that it's like people are like, oh man, that that that person's on fire.
SPEAKER_01: It could just be I'm just walking up to somebody that looks maybe lonely and just saying, Hey, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_01: And just being just a little bit of a light.
SPEAKER_01: And that's a gift.
SPEAKER_01: Not everybody can do that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um what Rachel was talking about about going and encouraging that person that you see showing their gift, that by itself is a spiritual gift of encouragement as well.
SPEAKER_00: It is.
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, and who doesn't like to be encouraged, right?
SPEAKER_01: Um it kind of it sometimes it might make you feel a little bit weirder at first, but man, what that does to them and just encourages them to keep doing it because you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Um that that is great to see, Rachel.
SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm with you.
SPEAKER_01: That fires me up too.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it's so cool to see, and yeah, just exciting to see whenever people step into their giftedness.
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's talk about like why why do you think some some people walk into a church um and then have the thought or have the feeling like, yeah, I don't, I just don't have anything to to bring here, anything to offer here.
SPEAKER_00: Why do you think somebody would have that?
SPEAKER_00: Why do they struggle to find their space in this?
SPEAKER_00: Doug, I'm gonna come to you.
SPEAKER_00: Why do why do people like have that initial feeling of, yeah, I just don't know though.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I don't like that's that's great.
SPEAKER_00: And it's even, yeah, it's cool to see somebody else doing something, that's great, but I don't there's nothing obvious here for me to to do or contribute, you know?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think sometimes um people they walk in and you know, we're always talked about or told, you know, don't be prideful.
SPEAKER_01: Um but so sometimes it's just hard to walk in and say, I'm good at playing the guitar or I'm good at teaching.
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just hard to say that.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it kind of sounds prideful when you say it, um, which is why I think what Rachel said earlier, when you have somebody to come up and just actually tell you that, I mean, that just reaffirms that, okay, I'm not being prideful.
SPEAKER_01: That is a gift that I have.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think, you know, especially people maybe new walking in, there's got to be some um not feeling very secure in just what you can do.
SPEAKER_01: So you walk in, it's like, man, that these people are awesome.
SPEAKER_01: You know, and you kind of start feeling maybe inferior.
SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe I have that talent, but maybe I feel like it's not as good as that person.
SPEAKER_01: Um and that I think that's a real quick no for me when I feel that way.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I probably am I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut and and move on.
SPEAKER_01: Um people that are musically more talented than me, I'm like, man, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't be on the stage because they are so good.
SPEAKER_01: Um but but I yeah, I think there's just that fear of inferiority there.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: What would you say create why why do people struggle to find that their fit in in serving and yeah?
SPEAKER_04: I I think churches um could always do a better job of letting people know the needs uh that are are available.
SPEAKER_04: Some of them are very present, like, hey, we actually have a shortage of this, but someone's like, hey, if you are are interested, we will find a way, even if that means creating a new new space for you to come in um and and be equipped.
SPEAKER_04: So I I think part of that is on the the church leadership side.
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
SPEAKER_04: I think what what Doug was saying is you don't have to be the best at something to serve and do a great job.
SPEAKER_04: Some of my favorite preachers are not the best communicators, probably just on a practical level, same for worship leaders, same for anything.
SPEAKER_04: And and so you don't have to be the best to serve and for the Lord to call you into something.
SPEAKER_04: Um, I think you also sometimes people are afraid, well, I don't have the perfect spiritual life, or I don't have all the answers.
SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, I have stress and I have anxiety, I worry about money.
SPEAKER_04: There's no way I can serve the Lord with those problems, and that's just a lie from the enemy.
SPEAKER_04: Just on how many people we see the Lord use in scripture that did not have all the answers, did not make all of the right decisions, but there was a a repentant heart and and that in and of itself was an example.
SPEAKER_04: And then I think uh kind of going back to some of the previous topics that have been on the podcast, is there's it's hard to do when you're constantly turning on and off your spiritual life.
SPEAKER_04: When you're when it's on and it's out of the overflow of what you're already doing, it doesn't feel like another thing because the Lord's right there asking you to do it and you're already a part of it.
SPEAKER_04: When you're when it's off for part of your week or part of your day, and then you have to somehow flip the switch and turn it on again.
SPEAKER_04: That is exhausting.
SPEAKER_04: And so I I think all of those things are things just in my own life that I've when I've found it to be a burden more than a gift and a freedom within it have been a struggle.
SPEAKER_00: What do you think are some of there's several things that you guys have said that I wanna ask more questions about, but what what do you think are some of the areas of our church, like specifically think in Carterville, areas of our church that people are unaware that they can serve in?
SPEAKER_00: Like what are some of the things and not that, you know, not to say, well, we yeah, it's because whatever because our our worship ministry does a terrible job of of like I'm not what I'm gonna hear, gonna but like what what kind of opportunities are because there's the obvious things in front of people that I think are like, yeah, I know I could serve in that area, but what are the areas that or maybe just let's let's just think of all the different areas people could serve, user gifts in the church.
SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that come to mind?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we I don't think we for I'll just say because I get to be involved with youth on Wednesday nights, I don't think we push that probably enough that you know what, we've got some teenagers that man, they're going through a hard time because they're teenagers.
SPEAKER_01: Um and you can probably say that about 99% of the teenagers that that come to church on Wednesday night, Sunday, and we really need people that can pour into them and love them.
SPEAKER_01: Um I I I don't know that we talk about that very much because that's not easy to do.
SPEAKER_01: Um teenagers can be a pain in the butt, um, you know, and it's it's hard.
SPEAKER_01: Um it's hard to, you know, get there on Wednesday nights and try to get to events, and that's not easy.
SPEAKER_01: But man, pouring yourself into somebody at that age, man, is it's such a blessing.
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I don't know that we talk about that as much because it because it's not easy.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, yeah, a lot of times on that it's like somebody's like, well I I can't do that.
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't have again, I don't have all the answers, I don't have the wisdom, I don't have this and some so much of discipling somebody is just being consistent, is showing up in their life week in and week out, remembering their name, you know, and remember what's going on in their life, and then then it'll, you know, be the 1% or maybe 5% of the time that you interact with them, they'll come to you because they'll they know they can trust you and they'll come to you with a question or something that's going on.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: I think about communion, um, communion prep.
SPEAKER_05: I think that that is something that no one thinks about.
SPEAKER_05: It just shows up, it's there, it's available all the time.
SPEAKER_05: Someone has to fill each of those companies.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, oh that was awesome.
SPEAKER_05: This is great.
SPEAKER_05: This is here again.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but stuff like that um administratively or um whether it's packing outreach bags or whatever those administration administrative, like task-oriented things are, um, the things that just show up and are ready, there are hands on all of those things.
SPEAKER_05: And so I think that if we can look around and notice um those meticulous parts and pieces of services or experiences, um, there are people that don't want to be in front of people serving or people that don't enjoy worship or preaching or teaching, whatever it might be, but are very gifted in administrative tasks.
SPEAKER_05: And so I think those things we can just learn to reach out both ways.
SPEAKER_05: Reach out to ministers and ministers reach out to congregants for help.
SPEAKER_05: Sure.
SPEAKER_05: People are willing.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: And you know, like, yeah, something like communion, you know, you could we take cookies to for every first-time guest, right?
SPEAKER_00: You can bake cookies and bring them to the church, and then we'd, you know, hold on to them and then take them to first time first-time guests every every every time they show up.
SPEAKER_05: And someone loves to do to do that, to bake cookies.
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05: It's a ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about even just outside of our our church.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just thinking about different ways you could be involved in our community, you know, if you've got kids in the Web City School District, then you know that there's dads standing out front before school, giving high fives to kids in the Cardinal Muscle program through Web City Cares, right?
SPEAKER_00: I think about, you know, Water Gardens, who's right here, who's got, you know, there's there's their main shelter, you know, that they house um that the their homeless shelter there and their worth shop and all that kind of stuff, but they also have a a women's shelter for single moms and Washington family hope that needs meals and child care, all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And then there's uh a men's uh like recovery program, the Forge.
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a great like there's so many opportunities, even just in our community.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, think of fostering hope.
SPEAKER_00: I think of Carthage Crisis Center.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many, even life choices, so many different ways that you could get involved um even outside of this place, but that this place actually is still contributing to and still being involved in in those ways as well.
SPEAKER_00: I guess we we gotta kind of wrap up, wrap things up here.
SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask the question like, what do you what's one practical step that if somebody's listening to this podcast, what's a what's a practical step you would give them of something they could do this week to to live generously?
SPEAKER_00: Whatever that might look like.
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is like a here's something that's it's right here.
SPEAKER_00: This is low low-hanging fruit, that's right here, ready for you to ready for you to take advantage of.
SPEAKER_00: What would you what would you say, Doug?
SPEAKER_00: What would you say?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think I think just take that one step, take that one step of faith, whether it's I'm gonna start giving, whether it's I'm gonna start, you know, giving some of my time at church.
SPEAKER_01: Um because it to me that's the hardest, it's that first step.
SPEAKER_01: Just do it.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I it's it's not I mean that so sounds so cliche, but but it is, and that's what it takes.
SPEAKER_01: Um it's just saying, you know what, God, you're in control.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take this first step, and then watch God take the next steps for you.
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: Go go to go to C3 Central Sunday and see where there's gaps that that we need somebody to fill in.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I that's to me that's an easy thing to do.
SPEAKER_01: Go see where we need help and go, okay, I think I can.
SPEAKER_01: Can fill this spot and see what happens.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: Creighton, what would you say?
SPEAKER_00: Natural steps will make it take.
SPEAKER_04: And so I have two, but they're first one's quick.
SPEAKER_04: First is just pray.
SPEAKER_04: Pray that the Lord will bring people to your mind or ways to serve or um and change your heart.
SPEAKER_04: Sometimes that feels so overwhelming, like there's no way I could have been this way for a decade.
SPEAKER_04: And the Lord will do it, I promise you.
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
SPEAKER_04: Um, and the the other is is just giving out of the spirit rather than the flesh.
SPEAKER_04: So Galatians 6 says, Whatever we do from the flesh for the flesh will reap destruction, but what we do from the spirit for the spirit will reap eternal life.
SPEAKER_04: Therefore, we don't grow weary from doing good to others.
SPEAKER_04: And so um I think there are sometimes things that we have done for the flesh that have actually on the outside looked like good things.
SPEAKER_04: And really, the Lord is good enough that He can actually use those to advance his kingdom.
SPEAKER_04: So what it tells me is that when we do things for selfish purposes, we are the ones that miss out.
SPEAKER_04: Not always even others.
SPEAKER_04: Um and so a way to do this is just doing something for someone that no one knows about.
SPEAKER_04: Don't tell your spouse, don't tell your small group, don't tell the person that you're even doing it for, and just let it be something that you and the Lord do, and just make it a a spiritual practice, whether that's at the grocery store or at a restaurant, or maybe you do hear of a need in your small group and or or around you, and you you know, write a you know, give them cash in an envelope or something, but you don't tell them.
SPEAKER_04: That's just a when there's no way for anyone to to tie your image to it, um will is just really a a forming practice that uh has blessed me every time I've done it.
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: Rachel, what would you say?
SPEAKER_05: I would say pray too.
SPEAKER_05: That was that was what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_05: Um surprising what God will do.
SPEAKER_05: I shouldn't be surprising, but it is.
SPEAKER_05: Um always surprise when you ask for um help seeing people the way that God sees people, or help seeing a need when you walk into the grocery store, when you walk through your neighborhood.
SPEAKER_05: Um maybe it's just encouraging that you need um to be giving out to people encouragement.
SPEAKER_05: Um maybe it's money, maybe it's time, maybe it's effort, whatever it might be, you can't see that with your own eyes.
SPEAKER_05: We're so flawed and selfish that we we just can't.
SPEAKER_05: And so that would be the practical step if if someone is um stuck in that area.
SPEAKER_05: For me, that's the practical first step.
SPEAKER_05: For sure.
SPEAKER_05: God God does that.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think with along that lines, I think when you do pray that, be ready.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And be ready because it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
SPEAKER_05: Ask for courage.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly right.
SPEAKER_05: Along with eyes, ask for courage and boldness to do what you need to do because you will feel it in your bones and in your body when it comes up and you have a choice to make.
SPEAKER_00: So yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, want to ask you one more question.
SPEAKER_00: I know I said we're gonna end, but I want to ask you one more question and what you think one sentence, one sentence that comes to mind when you when when you think like what would happen if our church really grabbed a hold of this and had the mindset of what can I bring rather than what what am I here to take?
SPEAKER_00: You know, like if there's a a mindset shift, because a lot of times we want to be contributors and not consumers, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of a a big plea that we're that we want to do as a church.
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if if if really we we grabbed a hold of this as a church, what would this look like?
SPEAKER_00: Doug, I'm gonna start with you.
SPEAKER_00: One sentence to say this is what the church would look like if we if we came to this realization of everybody had this attitude of how can I contribute?
SPEAKER_00: This is what would happen.
SPEAKER_01: We become the first church and we become a church with no need.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_00: What would you say?
SPEAKER_04: Uh I think people will find what they have always been looking for when they unite themselves with Christ and the mission and the mindset of him.
SPEAKER_04: So you would just find ultimate fulfillment that you could not imagine, but have also been searching for your entire life.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Can I read from Acts 4?
SPEAKER_05: Right, okay.
SPEAKER_05: That's more than one sentence.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it's first church language.
SPEAKER_05: All the believers were united in heart and mind, and they felt that what they had owned was not their own.
SPEAKER_05: So they shared everything they had.
SPEAKER_05: The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of Jesus, and God's great blessing was upon them all.
SPEAKER_05: There were no needing people among them, because those who own land or houses would sell them and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need.
SPEAKER_05: So I think we would just we would be a complete people.
SPEAKER_05: We would be a people for one another, which is the heart of God.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Fully alive in the life that that Jesus is offering, offering us.
SPEAKER_00: Man, this is what we want for our church.
SPEAKER_00: This is what we want for for C3, is what we want for you if you're listening to this.
SPEAKER_00: Um we we like want you to live the full life that that the Lord has for you.
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, this conversation is not the end-all be-all conversation by itself, and it's not the end-all conversation about this issue by itself.
SPEAKER_00: But man, maybe this is the next step you need to take is just realizing, hey, I've got something to bring to the table here.
SPEAKER_00: I've got something to offer, I've got something to contribute, whether that's my maybe I've been I've been given my money, but I haven't given my time.
SPEAKER_00: I haven't thought, given intentional thought to how the Lord has has gifted me to serve his body, whatever that may, whatever that may be.
SPEAKER_00: Um, man, we we would love for you to jump on, jump on board with this and see what the Lord has for you on the other side of just living a generous life.
SPEAKER_00: Man, this has been an encouragement to you, would encourage you to to share this with somebody else.
SPEAKER_00: And we'd love to continue the conversation with you.
SPEAKER_00: So reach out to any of our staff or elders or um our ministry leaders.
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to talk with you about what it might look like for you to jump in and start serving, what it would look like for you to take that first step of trust in giving financially, um, what it what what you might be dealing with, struggling with in in regards to this conversation.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for for joining us, and we'll see you next time.