SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to a special episode of the C3 Podcast.
SPEAKER_03: I'm Damian Spickerite, a teaching minister at Carterville Christian Church, and I am joined by some very special friends, longtime friends and longtime members of Carterville Christian Church who are going to share some invaluable.
SPEAKER_03: See what I did there?
SPEAKER_03: I saw invaluable financial wisdom.
SPEAKER_03: This is a supplement to the current sermon series that we're in.
SPEAKER_03: Jesus the financial planner.
SPEAKER_03: What advice would Jesus give us if he were our financial planner?
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully he is, and he's got a lot of great wisdom for us.
SPEAKER_03: And so we want to explore some of that wisdom throughout this sermon series.
SPEAKER_03: This morning we talked about Jesus' teaching on guarding against all kinds of greed.
SPEAKER_03: And so we're going to explore the tension between living with radical sacrificial generosity, the kind that Jesus invites us to offer to the world and to other people, but also the biblical wisdom of preparing for the future and providing for a family, both our biological family as well as our spiritual family, to help us explore this important topic and to navigate this tension.
SPEAKER_03: We have some great people who have, I'm going to let them introduce themselves in just a moment, but they have more than 65 years of combined experience in the financial sector, of providing financial wisdom, advice, and planning for individuals and for organizations.
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going to say they are an expert panel of contributors today.
SPEAKER_03: So let's let's hear who our experts are today.
SPEAKER_03: Garrett, I'll start with you.
SPEAKER_03: Introduce yourself, tell us what you do, how long you've been a part of uh the church here at Carterville.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Garrett Taylor.
SPEAKER_01: I'm a financial advisor at Rvest Wealth Management.
SPEAKER_01: Been there.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I've been in the business about 20 years.
SPEAKER_01: Um and been a part of Carterville, I think going on eight years now.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: And your wife is Erin, and she also is on staff here at Carterville.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, she is.
SPEAKER_03: Doing first impressions.
SPEAKER_03: First impressions director.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So our friendly presence at the front door.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Mark?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so uh Mark Hand.
SPEAKER_02: I'm one of the elders here at Carterville.
SPEAKER_02: I've been coming here for almost 30 years now, uh, which is crazy to think about uh that it's been that long.
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm vice president of business strategies at Carter Carterville?
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm I I'm here at Carterville right now.
SPEAKER_03: I've done that before, Mark.
SPEAKER_03: I work at Ozark Christian College and I have from the stage.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us at Ozark.
SPEAKER_02: It all kind of blends together, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02: After a lot of minutes.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So uh I've actually been at Christ and Youth for about 20 years uh in that role.
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, what a what an exciting role being basically a CFO for a youth ministry organization.
SPEAKER_02: Those two always seem to be in tension with one another.
SPEAKER_02: And I think we're gonna talk a little bit about tension in a bit, but uh yeah, so that that's kind of kind of my history with financial planning and and Carville Christian Church.
SPEAKER_03: Wonderful, wonderful.
SPEAKER_03: And last but certainly not least.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm Adrien Jackson.
SPEAKER_00: I'm a financial advisor also at Rvest Wealth Management.
SPEAKER_00: I've been there for about 21 years.
SPEAKER_03: I promise this is not a commercial, this is not content marketing for Rvest Financial.
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Adrian does have his name tag on right now.
SPEAKER_00: No, we've been at Carterville for 13 years now.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wonderful.
SPEAKER_03: Well, these are amazing people, so generous, so kind, such great contributors to everything that we're doing here at Carterville.
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for joining us in this important discussion.
SPEAKER_03: Adrian, I'm gonna throw the first question your your way, if that's all right.
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I would love for you to tell us on a personal level what drew you to this kind of work, financial planning and management, advice giving, and specifically, maybe more importantly, how do you see it as kingdom work?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't always know that this was a life for me.
SPEAKER_00: I started out pre-med and you see where where I ended.
SPEAKER_00: But um, I took a financial planning course in college, and that really was just a light bulb moment for me.
SPEAKER_00: I loved it and just began exploring ways to to use it as a career.
SPEAKER_00: As far as kingdom work, you know, when you're talking to somebody about finances, it's a very vulnerable thing.
SPEAKER_00: And when people are comfortable enough to talk about money, they often tend to talk about a lot of non-financial things that are going on in their life.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and for many of the people that I work with, they become like family to me.
SPEAKER_00: And just through the financial work, a relationship's built, and I have the opportunity to show compassion and then also say things that are hard but need to be said.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's in the context of a relationship where they they trust me and they know that I have their best interest in mind.
SPEAKER_00: Anytime you're working along some alongside somebody in the trenches, it has the opportunity to become kingdom work.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure that we have so many people who are struggling who keep it to themselves, they're ashamed.
SPEAKER_03: So having somebody like you and others to go to in those moments can be so meaningful and important.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Uh, Mark, same question.
SPEAKER_02: I think for me, like what drew me into it was probably my dad, quite honestly.
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, growing up, he ran his own business, he he ran other businesses, you know, divisions of large corporations and things like that.
SPEAKER_02: So financials were always super important to him.
SPEAKER_02: And managing cash flow and things like that were just something that it's almost like it was talked about uh about as much as like sports were at the dinner table.
SPEAKER_02: At the dinner table.
SPEAKER_02: Hey, let's talk a little bit about cash flow today, kids.
SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know share your statement of activities with us today.
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
SPEAKER_02: That'd be great.
SPEAKER_02: Please do that.
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's just something I kind of I kind of grew up with.
SPEAKER_02: And when my rock band failed, uh, after I figured out I can't really play any instruments and and uh frankly I don't have a great singing voice.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I was kind of left with uh financial planning and and I tend to lean more on the organizational side of things.
SPEAKER_02: Um similar to you, Damien.
SPEAKER_02: I I tend to be on that side of things, but you know, you know, I see it as kingdom work because I mean how many times do we see we see it talked about in the Proverbs, which I'll I'll even go back to my dad.
SPEAKER_02: That was something that was just pounded in my head, the idea of debt, you know, whether it's Proverbs 22, like those kinds of things were just always uh at the dinner table, apparently, right?
SPEAKER_02: Uh but also Jesus talked about finances a lot, whether whether it was very directly or even within a parable, uh it's just something that obviously was very important uh for him to discuss and and probably is if Jesus is talking about it, it's probably important for us to talk about it as well and deal with it.
SPEAKER_02: So absolutely, yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_03: Garrett, I'd love to hear your story.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so pretty similar to Adrian's.
SPEAKER_01: Um was declared pre-med going into college, and so we got two pre-med.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01: And a rock band.
SPEAKER_03: And uh there you go.
SPEAKER_01: Realized I didn't want to go to school another 12 years, didn't have it in me.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I had taken a course, I think it was the Dave Ramsey teen version through my youth group in high school, and a light bulb kind of clicked that this is really interesting to me, of all things as a teenager.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I always kind of had this desire to be a teacher and a coach, but selfishly, um, football seasons during hunting season, and I had spent my whole life playing football and not hunting, so I had to find something else.
SPEAKER_01: And so I view this career kind of as a teacher.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had always viewed this industry as more of a sales kind of culture.
SPEAKER_01: That's not me, I'm not a sales guy.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think I am a teacher, and so um I tell my kids all the time I'm really just teaching people about something that maybe they don't they don't have as much time and experience with, or maybe it's a little bit intimidating.
SPEAKER_01: And I like to think that I help maybe provide some some peace of mind and and comfort with uh folks going into retirement.
SPEAKER_01: In my practice, I kind of specialize in in retirement income planning.
SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of conversations with folks in that stage of life.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that can be really scary.
SPEAKER_01: And so providing some reassurance that, you know, they're gonna be able to pay their bills, but also do the things that they're passionate about, invest their time and their energy into ministries and different things that uh maybe they couldn't when they were working nine to five for their career.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's really fulfilling to see.
SPEAKER_01: You know, people get to do those things.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that idea that you all are serving as teachers and coaches to run with that metaphor, because that really is at the heart of this series.
SPEAKER_03: It's what if Jesus were our what if he was the most important voice, the most important coach, the most important teacher in our life when it comes specifically to this area of handling and managing our finances.
SPEAKER_03: Um, because I I, you know, hearing you all speak about feelings of shame or intimidation or fear, it's just so great to know that he is gentle and kind and compassionate and patient with us and has much wisdom to offer us.
SPEAKER_03: And so that's what we want to dive into.
SPEAKER_03: So uh the focus of this discussion really is exploring this tension, navigating this tension that it appears to exist within the scriptures.
SPEAKER_03: And so, on one hand, we have the clear voice of Jesus, right?
SPEAKER_03: Watch out, he says, to the religious leaders, to people who are listening, watch out, be on your guard against all kinds of greed.
SPEAKER_03: Now, there's actually two things he's teaching us there.
SPEAKER_03: One, that greed is a problem, and we should watch out for it, obviously.
SPEAKER_03: But there's actually a second thing he's saying, which is greed comes in all kinds of forms.
SPEAKER_03: It's not a one size fits all kind of sin, if you will.
SPEAKER_03: It comes in lots of different forms.
SPEAKER_03: And so there's none of us around this table or listening at home right now or in your car that is exempt from this.
SPEAKER_03: We all need to be mindful of the uh of the sin of greed.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and he goes on to say life is not made up of an abundance of wealth.
SPEAKER_03: Life is so much more than that.
SPEAKER_03: And then you have Jesus teaching the parable of the sower, and he talks about one of the things that will choke out the word of God in our life, in his words, is the deceitfulness of wealth.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then his conversation with the rich young ruler, which of the commandments are the most important?
SPEAKER_03: And Jesus says, Well, here's some of the Ten Commandments, and he's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I know all those.
SPEAKER_03: I've I've done all of that.
SPEAKER_03: Jesus then looks deeply into his heart and says, What you need to do is you need to go sell everything you have, give it to the poor.
SPEAKER_03: And we read that he went away very sad.
SPEAKER_03: And the reason why it tells us he went away very sad is because he had great wealth.
SPEAKER_03: He was holding on tightly, clinging tightly to his money and his possessions.
SPEAKER_03: So here's the question: what how do we avoid this?
SPEAKER_03: How do we take to heart Jesus' teaching to avoid all kinds of greed when we know that it's easily argued this is we are in the most wealthy generation in the history of human civilization?
SPEAKER_03: So we probably should really hear what Jesus is saying.
SPEAKER_03: Watch out for it.
SPEAKER_03: So here's my first question, Garrett.
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it throw it to you.
SPEAKER_03: Just personally, experientially, what choices have you made in your life to hold on loosely to your money, to your possessions, to live, as I talked about in the sermon this morning, to live with open hands rather than clenched fists?
SPEAKER_03: What does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_03: I know that you would say you haven't arrived, we're all in a in a journey with this, but what are some habits, some choices that you set up for yourself, your family that have helped you to live more generously over time?
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
SPEAKER_01: So the first and foremost is just to follow the command, you know, obey the teaching to to give.
SPEAKER_01: Um Aaron and I were blessed in that, I think we were on the same page early on in our marriage, um, to be able to um obey that and and make our life fit within what was left, right?
SPEAKER_01: It's it's so much harder, uh, I think to cut things out when you that that desire to be maybe a little bit more generous comes later in life and you know, the the house and the car and the eating out and entertainment doesn't leave room for much else.
SPEAKER_01: And so if if you take it off the top, right, the a little a little bit for the church and a little bit for your future, and then whatever's left after that, your lifestyle fits within that, uh, it just makes it a lot easier to be consistent uh with that, you know, and and we've tried to do things, especially as as our family's grown and we have kids, um, to help them um see generosity.
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a an easy example I think of is for years uh at Christmas time, we get with a local school and find out from the counselor who, you know, where's a family that may be struggling.
SPEAKER_01: And we make a point to go Christmas shopping with the kids and help them or allow them to help us, you know, pick things out for a certain age, a certain gender, um, you know, what what shoes are acceptable, you know.
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's been that's been fulfilling to see them kind of lean into that and and the joy they get in actually taking presents to the school that are wrapped, and we don't even know who they're going to.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm hearing a couple things there.
SPEAKER_03: So it really, I think what you're identifying is the principle of first fruits rather than last fruits.
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
SPEAKER_03: It's it's making it a commitment and a priority to start somewhere and to give generously, provide.
SPEAKER_03: We'll get to that in a little bit for our family.
SPEAKER_03: And then we have our lifestyle and and other things that we're um investing in.
SPEAKER_03: And then also being proactive, right?
SPEAKER_03: So not just waiting for opportunities to present themselves, but proactively seeking opportunities to be generous and to contribute.
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
SPEAKER_03: And they're out there.
SPEAKER_03: There's there's lots of them.
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Mark, Adrian, anything you would add to that?
SPEAKER_02: Well, I I think it's uh love all that practical, uh, those practical pieces.
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02: It's like you gotta have a plan, you know.
SPEAKER_02: Um that's a part of to me watching out is having an idea of what I'm actually gonna do with with the money, right?
SPEAKER_02: But one of the things, even like from a heart perspective, when we talk about like Jesus and when he's looking at at this this this rich dude who's just like, what do I need to do?
SPEAKER_02: You're like, I've done all these other things, and he's like, give up everything.
SPEAKER_02: And it it it wasn't just simply about giving up everything, it was about the heart of the person.
SPEAKER_02: And so for me, just even like a heart level practice is me beginning to understand what am I focusing in on.
SPEAKER_02: So, like, for instance, um, I I know it sounds crazy for a planner to say, if I spend all my time focusing on what my retirement account looks like and how much money I'm making on it, and you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02: I get I get really consumed in that.
SPEAKER_02: I've made a plan, I've set aside the money and it's invested, like and it's growing, but when I become obsessed with it, when it becomes the full focus of my life, um, that becomes a little bit of a problem for me because now I'm I'm starting to think all about the money, right?
SPEAKER_02: Or if it's this if it's the things that I have that either I could afford or couldn't afford, but they become the center focus of my life as opposed to following Jesus, um, it it really becomes kind of a heart issue.
SPEAKER_02: So so on top of the plan, it's it's also this idea of watching out and guarding myself to not become obsessed with the plan.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good, which starts with the heart, and definitely encourage everyone to listen to last week's sermon that Austin uh preached where he taught talks about changing our focus.
SPEAKER_03: What are we looking at?
SPEAKER_03: What are we uh giving our fullest attention to?
SPEAKER_03: Um, because the eye is the lamp of the body, and so what we're focused on is going to infiltrate our heart, and so that's great, that's great wisdom and advice.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think of Hebrews uh where they talk about giving sacrificially, and it there's always in the back of my mind, what am I sacrificing in giving?
SPEAKER_01: You know, you a a lot of folks may get to a point where it's maybe not as big of a challenge to give routinely.
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it I've heard it's easier to give out of abundance.
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of truth to that.
SPEAKER_01: And so there's got to be a sacrifice component.
SPEAKER_01: And that goes back to the heart, right?
SPEAKER_01: If if you're sacrificing something, then um it's for something greater.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_03: Great.
SPEAKER_03: Adrian, anything more?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, two things are are true about me.
SPEAKER_00: Um, number one being I have a deep need for security.
SPEAKER_00: Um, knowing that if life throws us a curveball, maybe we have to make some hard choices, but we're gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a need for security.
SPEAKER_00: That means being able to take care of my babies if something happens, and that's just that's really important to me.
SPEAKER_00: Um, the second thing that's true about me is that I really enjoy being generous.
SPEAKER_00: I've always felt like God's called me to give.
SPEAKER_00: Um, Rusty and I, like Garrett said, um, Rusty and I early on just developed the habit of tithing.
SPEAKER_00: And thankfully we're in a different place now, a different season of life where that's not as hard.
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's not, it doesn't feel like as much of a sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00: And so we're at the point where we're really digging into what does sacrificial giving look like?
SPEAKER_00: And one of the ways we've been able to get comfortable with that, I guess, um in in our house, we know our numbers.
SPEAKER_00: We know exactly what we need to meet our responsibilities today and in the future.
SPEAKER_00: And when that's taken care of, it's easy to say everything beyond that can go.
SPEAKER_00: Um just there's there's so much power in being able to confidently say, I don't need this, I have enough.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it allows us the space, the freedom, the ability to give without looking back.
SPEAKER_00: Um, because we know that that we're taken care of.
SPEAKER_00: Um again, God's in control, we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring, and I think we're gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so just having that that freedom to let it go.
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna change my life, but it could sure change someone else's.
SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow, that's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03: Has he ever let you down in that approach?
SPEAKER_03: No.
SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, that's so good.
SPEAKER_03: Um that that's so so amazing.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I I'm sure there are some folks that are listening that maybe are inspired by what you all have just shared.
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so if you could give them one sentence next steps, what what would those what would those next steps be in a s in a sentence or two or three?
SPEAKER_00: That's a challenge of boiling it down.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, boiling down.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: Next steps for me is always start.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, starting.
SPEAKER_02: Like start.
SPEAKER_02: I you know, you know, one of the things even in even that I think about like early on, I wish I would have started earlier.
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, frankly, if I'd have started in in high school, even when I I started working at 14 years old, you know.
SPEAKER_02: Um just you gotta start.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it is a practice, what Adrian was sharing.
SPEAKER_03: You develop muscle memory, you find joy in it over time, maybe not always right away, yeah, but over time you find joy in it, you see and feel the Lord's provision, and there's incredible satisfaction in that, and you become reassured of his presence in that, but it all starts with starting somewhere, right?
SPEAKER_02: Don't expect you're gonna be an expert day one.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: It's like start.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_03: That's good.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I'd echo that.
SPEAKER_00: I'd say have a plan, know your goals, stay focused, be diligent, start early.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think equally important, become an expert in contentment and gratitude.
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's what's going to be more meaningful than the the dollars you accumulate or the dollars you spend.
SPEAKER_00: Just being grateful, grateful for what you have develops that contentment, which will go a long way.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: It's so have a plan, so interesting, because we think about having a plan for retirement, having a plan to pay the bills, right?
SPEAKER_03: Uh what we call a budget.
SPEAKER_03: Have a plan for living generously, for giving regularly.
SPEAKER_03: We don't, I don't think we often talk about or think about it in those terms, but that's what I'm hearing is developing that plan.
SPEAKER_03: Great.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I think it's maybe sometimes easier to find that joy in giving when we're giving to something that we're passionate about.
SPEAKER_01: And so I I would encourage folks to look at those things in their life that they're involved in that they can really get behind.
SPEAKER_01: You know, like in our family, we've been we've been fostering kids for about 10 years.
SPEAKER_01: And so organizations like ACASA or Fostering Hope, um those are are really close to our heart.
SPEAKER_01: Other people, maybe you're in the healthcare industry, you know, in the community.
SPEAKER_01: Clinic might be something that tugs on you, or you may have a connection to I I grew up wrestling in high school with Jay Greer.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: Working in in ministry planting churches in Japan.
SPEAKER_01: And so I feel connection there.
SPEAKER_01: And so think of those things that that really kind of get you excited.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the the more mundane, if you will, it seems you know, people for whatever reason uh are are less excited about giving to the light bill at the church building, you know.
SPEAKER_01: But once it's more of a habit, that becomes uh even something that brings you joy too.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good.
SPEAKER_03: All right, well, let's let's flip the coin here and talk about this tension.
SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, yes, Jesus is urging us, commanding us to live generously.
SPEAKER_03: And yet it's very clear in scripture we we need to be prudent, we need to be wise, we need to prepare for the future, we need to provide for our family.
SPEAKER_03: Uh, Paul maybe is uh the most clear in this anyone who doesn't provide for their relatives, their family, their biological family, especially for their own immediate household, I mean, this is strong language, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
SPEAKER_03: Like there, there's a lot at stake here.
SPEAKER_03: So obviously, to be able to do that requires us to have prudence and wisdom in how we're managing our affairs.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's not just our biological family, but our spiritual family.
SPEAKER_03: Galatians 6, don't grow weary in doing good.
SPEAKER_03: We'll reap a harvest.
SPEAKER_03: Um, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially, he says, to believers, to fellow believers.
SPEAKER_03: And that's exactly what we see in the book of Acts.
SPEAKER_03: There were no needy persons among them.
SPEAKER_03: From time to time, they took what they had accumulated, their possessions, their wealth, and they they gave it away to take care of each other.
SPEAKER_03: And so this is a beautiful picture of the church and a beautiful picture of what we're to be for each other as a family, both biologically speaking and spiritually speaking.
SPEAKER_03: Mark, you talked about Proverbs.
SPEAKER_03: We don't have time to unpack all of the wisdom in Proverbs.
SPEAKER_03: One of my favorites, though, is go to the ant, you sluggard.
SPEAKER_03: Consider its ways and be wise.
SPEAKER_03: And then later on, he he talks about a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come on you like a thief.
SPEAKER_04: Ouch.
SPEAKER_03: Other translations say it like a bandit, which I think is a much cooler way to say that.
SPEAKER_03: And the idea is that we there is to be an aspect of our financial management of preparation and provision.
SPEAKER_03: So, how do we how do we balance that tension?
SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
SPEAKER_03: What what um I'll let you kind of go whatever direction you want to go.
SPEAKER_03: What mistakes have you experienced or seen that are to be avoided?
SPEAKER_03: Or what wisdom, guidance would you give to somebody who wants to grow and improve in this area of financial management and and wisdom?
SPEAKER_03: Mark, I'm gonna put you on the spot.
SPEAKER_03: Good.
SPEAKER_03: What what yeah, start us off here?
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it is kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_02: You mentioned the whole the whole idea of I mean, he tells us to look to the ant.
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh when I think about that, I'm just like, he is asking us to go to a bug to get some wisdom as to how to deal with things, and and immediately comes to my mind is simple.
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think sometimes we overcomplicate everything that we make it way harder.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Garrett, I've been l even listening to you, we were just like, well, I mean, the first thing we do is we just figure out like how are we going to give to the Lord?
SPEAKER_02: Like that's a simple, simple thing to do, right?
SPEAKER_02: And then, and then, you know, even just very very fundamentally, you you spend less than you take in.
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02: Like there's these little bitty things that are just incredibly simple.
SPEAKER_02: But what I find and and anytime that I've made uh a mess of things, um, because you know, there's not a perfect person around the table, but anytime I make a mess of things, I I t I typically tend to overcomplicate and make it so complex that it's hard to manage, it's hard to to work with it.
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think the example of the Anne is is very clear, it's clear in some ways, like you know, even they've got it figured out and it's real simple.
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02: You gotta you gotta plan ahead.
SPEAKER_02: Don't overcomplicate, make things simple.
SPEAKER_02: Um and there's honestly so many frameworks out there.
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, we've mentioned Dave Ramsey in here, it's a super simple framework.
SPEAKER_02: Are there people that are gonna pick it apart and say, well, yeah, but you could you could earn a little bit more doing this?
SPEAKER_02: Well, sure, but you don't have to be that complicated.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, keep it simple.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean the basic principle is the ant innately knows what it needs for the future and makes sure that it has that's for the future, and so it's having that simplicity of of approach.
SPEAKER_03: What what is needed versus what is wanted, absolutely, and being able to have the wisdom to differentiate the two sounds like a good starting point.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Garrett, Adrian, what other additional advice would you give?
SPEAKER_01: I I I would just want to share that this has been a struggle for me personally for years.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always wanted to kind of figure it out, right?
SPEAKER_01: What's the what's the right answer on generosity and stewardship?
SPEAKER_01: Because there is, I I think there's from a quantity standpoint, there's more teaching on caution against greed than there is stewardship.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they're both there, right?
SPEAKER_01: And they are they're at odds with each other, right?
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, there's so many dollars, and you can choose to give it away or you can choose to set it back for yourself, right?
SPEAKER_01: And uh you can't do both with the same dollar.
SPEAKER_01: It's unlike, you know, we we have the fruits of the spirit in Galatians, and often I forget about what precedes the listing of the fruits of the spirit, the the desires of the flesh, the sinful nature, and we have a real clear contrast in those traits: hatred versus love, impurity versus self-control, discord and peace, fits of rage versus joy.
SPEAKER_01: But what if you said generosity versus stewardship?
SPEAKER_01: Well, you want both, but you can't have both at the same time always.
SPEAKER_01: And so I I think just this comfort with living in that tension is something that that I've had to get comfortable with.
SPEAKER_01: Um I I like to think of it as a tug of war, right?
SPEAKER_01: Where both sides are pulling.
SPEAKER_01: And if if there's ever a point where it seems like one side is winning, then maybe I need to reevaluate a little bit.
SPEAKER_01: It's like the worst game of tug of war ever.
SPEAKER_03: Nobody ever wins.
SPEAKER_03: Just keep pulling and pulling and pulling.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: But if if it's I'm feeling really good about my stewardship, um, but the generosity is a little bit of an afterthought, maybe that side needs to be pulling a little bit harder.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Or vice versa.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's well, that's well said.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's that we're exploring this tension.
SPEAKER_03: We're not resolving it right necessarily, right?
SPEAKER_03: We want to live in it, we want to embrace it, uh figure out what that looks like for us day in and day out.
SPEAKER_03: That's a great, that's a great word.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Adrian.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll share a mistake that I've repeated year after year that probably created more tension than it resolved.
SPEAKER_00: Not probably it did.
SPEAKER_00: Um it's really an attitude of my heart.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I distinctly remember a time when we had enough to meet our needs, but it wasn't much extra than needs.
SPEAKER_00: Um we're talking needs, not wants.
SPEAKER_00: Um I was vacuuming the living room and the carpet was just really worn.
SPEAKER_00: You could see these dingy paths where people routinely walked.
SPEAKER_00: It had bubbles and ripples that just needed to be stretched out.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it wasn't something that it would have been wise to replace at that time.
SPEAKER_00: There just wasn't the money for it.
SPEAKER_00: It would have created stresses in other areas if we had.
SPEAKER_00: It was just not the at the top of the priority list.
SPEAKER_00: And fast forward a few years, we were finally able to redo that flooring.
SPEAKER_00: And I was so thankful, but I'm gonna be honest and say that um it didn't change my life.
SPEAKER_00: Um, as intensely as I wanted that new floor, you would have thought that my life would have been made um by the time we got it.
SPEAKER_00: And the new floor was great, but again, it didn't change my life.
SPEAKER_00: And let's be candid here.
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm in what you call midlife now.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's really taken me this long to understand the power of contentment.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I used to regularly wish for the future and just think about things like once this happens in my life, things will be so much better, or once this is done, my life will be so much easier.
SPEAKER_00: I spent so much time wishing for the future.
SPEAKER_00: I honestly feel like I miss the blessings of the present.
SPEAKER_00: And let me just tell you, like, I'm living in the future now.
SPEAKER_00: And looking back, I wish I would have soaked in more of the past.
SPEAKER_00: Uh things were simpler then, and those years had blessings of their own that I just didn't fully recognize.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I wish I would have been more content and grateful for every stage, um, no matter what that looked like.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wow, that's a great word.
SPEAKER_03: And I think contentment is such a key part of this whole conversation, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're embracing this tension, we want to live generously, we're actively, proactively planning on it, looking for opportunities, investing in things that we're passionate about or relationships.
SPEAKER_03: At not instead of that, but also we're taking care of our family, we're taking care of our church, we're putting away for the future so that we can continue to be a blessing to those around us, have the right mindset.
SPEAKER_03: And in all of it, maybe at the heart of it, at the center of it, is contentment, a satisfaction with what the Lord has provided uh for us, which is such a difficult thing.
SPEAKER_03: Well, we've come to near the end of this this uh discussion, so I want to give you a chance to offer a final word, if you will, um a final final encouragement.
SPEAKER_03: And um yeah, Garrett, we'll start with you.
SPEAKER_03: What would you like to pass on to the listeners?
SPEAKER_03: I'm not ready.
SPEAKER_03: He's not ready.
SPEAKER_03: Garrett, I'll let you contemplate that for a moment.
SPEAKER_03: Mark, are you do you have a final word?
SPEAKER_02: I think I think honestly, you know, I I'd probably summarize a a couple of things that that we've talked about and that that really stuck out in my mind, which is you know, uh, I think Garrett said it right at the top.
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, let's make God first.
SPEAKER_02: If we're making God first in every other part of our life, it it should include our finances as well.
SPEAKER_02: So the earlier on, uh, you know, for the young couples out there, the earlier on, the young individual, the the high school student, whoever it is, you've got a job, the faster you come to the realization I need to make God a priority in my life, and that includes my finances, the better off you are uh for for living that consistently the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_02: Um the the older I get, the harder it is, you know, you hear the phrase, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, right?
SPEAKER_02: So you better learn the tricks early on, right?
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, the other thing is, you know, if if you're uh if you're thinking about a budget, you don't know how to do it, there's lots of frameworks out there.
SPEAKER_02: Don't don't get too complex.
SPEAKER_02: There's no reason for that.
SPEAKER_02: It's not that, it doesn't need to be that hard.
SPEAKER_02: And if you're dealing with things like debt, uh that can be super overwhelming.
SPEAKER_02: I know uh I've I've worked with people that have had mountains of debt, and it can be debilitating to the point that you don't do anything, and that's the wrong decision.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02: So when you start feeling debilitated, that's that's a great time to go find somebody like that's a financial player.
SPEAKER_02: Like we've got great ones here, and this isn't an advertisement for our best.
SPEAKER_02: But we we have several people that would be willing to help you figure out how to take that burden off of yourself, and it takes time and you just got to be prepared for that.
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's probably a couple things I think for for someone struggling.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would just encourage them, remind them prayer is powerful.
SPEAKER_01: Uh and you know, lean on God when you're feeling overwhelmed, um ask for his help.
SPEAKER_01: And and if you continue to obey the commands, the teachings, to to be generous even through that, you're gonna be amazed coming out on the other side.
SPEAKER_01: And that gives so much confidence and and um just lack of worry for the future, right?
SPEAKER_01: When you when you've seen him get you through a hard time financially.
SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's very, very impactful.
SPEAKER_01: And and this is probably more in-depth than you wanted as a as a wrap-up question, but it's it was on my heart today to to share something very practical in terms of a way to be generous.
SPEAKER_01: If you look at our society today, most most folks have their wealth tied up in their home or their retirement plan.
SPEAKER_01: And we have, we're we're just now seeing people retire with 401ks, right?
SPEAKER_01: Those were created in the early 80s, they're not that old.
SPEAKER_01: And they have allowed people to create more financial accumulation than we've ever seen in the history of our country for sure.
SPEAKER_01: And there's a real tension with that because you know, before people retired with pensions and their bills were paid through retirement, and when they died, it was done.
SPEAKER_01: Um now they live off of their own savings.
SPEAKER_01: And so one thing I would encourage folks who may be in that retirement phase of life, um, think about the church, ministries, charities that you can make as a partial beneficiary to a retirement plan.
SPEAKER_01: That is a an avenue, a pool of funds that, you know, it's after you're gone, but there's a lot of potential good that can be done there.
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, to tie it back to this this tension between stewardship and generosity, that is not something I'm doing today because I have a family who's dependent.
SPEAKER_03: But it's something I can it's a way I can invest in the kingdom beyond.
SPEAKER_01: Well, if if if I if I were to pass away tomorrow, get hit by a truck, my wife and kids need to be taken care of.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: But if my parents passed away, right, I'm not counting on their money.
SPEAKER_01: And so I would challenge folks, whether you're in that retirement phase of life or maybe you're in my stage where you're looking at your parents, how would you feel if they named their home church as a beneficiary on a retirement plan?
SPEAKER_01: Would you would you feel slighted by that?
SPEAKER_01: Um or is that something maybe you want to have a conversation with them about, encourage them about?
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's a conversation that we're just coming into that needs to happen more frequently uh with believers.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_03: That's great, great advice, great wisdom.
SPEAKER_03: Good.
SPEAKER_03: Adrian.
SPEAKER_00: I'll share a couple practical tips.
SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things that's made giving easier for me, um just administratively, I guess you could say, I have a check-in account that's just giving.
SPEAKER_00: The subtitle on that account is giving.
SPEAKER_00: Every time a paycheck comes into it.
SPEAKER_00: Creative, that's great.
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
SPEAKER_00: Every time a paycheck comes into our household account, the first thing I do is transfer the appropriate amount over to the giving account.
SPEAKER_00: That giving account has an exclusive purpose.
SPEAKER_00: It is not touched for anything but giving, but it gets it out of our household account.
SPEAKER_00: It's no longer mine, it is a done deal, it's set apart.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so that's one of the things that's really helped us just keep track of that and um segregate it.
SPEAKER_00: Another thing is like I've got four kids, and so this happens a lot in our house, but we pull the kids into those conversations about money not to worry them.
SPEAKER_00: We're very careful about not creating worry within them.
SPEAKER_00: But to have conversations like school lunch costs$4 a tray.
SPEAKER_00: There's four of you, that's$16 a day,$80 a week.
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even taste that good.
SPEAKER_00: Like, why would we want to do that?
SPEAKER_03: And so they know no defense to the cafeteria's group.
SPEAKER_00: But they know how much we spend on groceries.
SPEAKER_00: And so we have those conversations.
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not worth it.
SPEAKER_00: That's a choice we we want to do a little differently.
SPEAKER_00: And they're on board.
SPEAKER_00: They completely understand.
SPEAKER_00: They get one day a week, they can look at the lunch menu, pick what day they want to eat lunch, and the rest of them, they're gonna pack their bags.
SPEAKER_00: Um, we lived in a camper for two years just to be able to pay for a big project.
SPEAKER_00: Um, we were building a home and we wanted to be able to pay for it.
SPEAKER_00: And I asked the kids all the time, like, are you ashamed of that?
SPEAKER_00: Like, was that embarrassing?
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, No, mom, that was so fun.
SPEAKER_00: And so they know they're not worried about it, but they know it's for a purpose.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that'll help shape the conversations and the the way that they treat money and their decisions in the future.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for just the great insights.
SPEAKER_03: I've personally benefited from hearing your thoughts and ideas on this subject.
SPEAKER_03: And I know, I know that many others will as well.
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for the time you've taken to be with us in today's C3 podcast.
SPEAKER_03: And thank you all for listening.
SPEAKER_03: If you have appreciated what you've heard, feel free to share that with others who may need to hear it and would also benefit from it.
SPEAKER_03: And we certainly would encourage you to come this Sunday and continue in this sermon series talking about Jesus, the financial planner.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for listening.
SPEAKER_03: Have a great day.