WEBVTT 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:15.759 Hello and welcome to a special episode of the C3 Podcast. 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:28.960 I'm Damian Spickerite, a teaching minister at Carterville Christian Church, and I am joined by some very special friends, longtime friends and longtime members of Carterville Christian Church who are going to share some invaluable. 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:30.559 See what I did there? 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:34.719 I saw invaluable financial wisdom. 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:38.159 This is a supplement to the current sermon series that we're in. 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:40.719 Jesus the financial planner. 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:46.000 What advice would Jesus give us if he were our financial planner? 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:49.119 Hopefully he is, and he's got a lot of great wisdom for us. 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:53.119 And so we want to explore some of that wisdom throughout this sermon series. 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.920 This morning we talked about Jesus' teaching on guarding against all kinds of greed. 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:24.799 And so we're going to explore the tension between living with radical sacrificial generosity, the kind that Jesus invites us to offer to the world and to other people, but also the biblical wisdom of preparing for the future and providing for a family, both our biological family as well as our spiritual family, to help us explore this important topic and to navigate this tension. 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:45.040 We have some great people who have, I'm going to let them introduce themselves in just a moment, but they have more than 65 years of combined experience in the financial sector, of providing financial wisdom, advice, and planning for individuals and for organizations. 00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:50.879 So I'm just going to say they are an expert panel of contributors today. 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.040 So let's let's hear who our experts are today. 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:56.640 Garrett, I'll start with you. 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:01.760 Introduce yourself, tell us what you do, how long you've been a part of uh the church here at Carterville. 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.519 Yeah, so Garrett Taylor. 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:06.560 I'm a financial advisor at Rvest Wealth Management. 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:07.519 Been there. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.719 Uh I've been in the business about 20 years. 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:15.759 Um and been a part of Carterville, I think going on eight years now. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:16.319 Okay. 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.400 And your wife is Erin, and she also is on staff here at Carterville. 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:21.199 Yes, she is. 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:22.479 Doing first impressions. 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:23.759 First impressions director. 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:24.159 Yeah. 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.560 So our friendly presence at the front door. 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:27.439 That's great. 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:28.159 Mark? 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:30.719 Yeah, so uh Mark Hand. 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:32.400 I'm one of the elders here at Carterville. 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:40.080 I've been coming here for almost 30 years now, uh, which is crazy to think about uh that it's been that long. 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:44.560 Uh I'm vice president of business strategies at Carter Carterville? 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.120 No, I'm I I'm here at Carterville right now. 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:48.319 I've done that before, Mark. 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:51.439 I work at Ozark Christian College and I have from the stage. 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.560 Thank you for joining us at Ozark. 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:57.759 It all kind of blends together, doesn't it? 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:58.800 After a lot of minutes. 00:02:59.360 --> 00:02:59.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:06.159 So uh I've actually been at Christ and Youth for about 20 years uh in that role. 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:12.719 And uh, you know, what a what an exciting role being basically a CFO for a youth ministry organization. 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.639 Those two always seem to be in tension with one another. 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:25.680 And I think we're gonna talk a little bit about tension in a bit, but uh yeah, so that that's kind of kind of my history with financial planning and and Carville Christian Church. 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:26.800 Wonderful, wonderful. 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.039 And last but certainly not least. 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.360 Yeah, so I'm Adrien Jackson. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.039 I'm a financial advisor also at Rvest Wealth Management. 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:36.479 I've been there for about 21 years. 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:42.080 I promise this is not a commercial, this is not content marketing for Rvest Financial. 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.439 Sorry, Adrian does have his name tag on right now. 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.360 No, we've been at Carterville for 13 years now. 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:50.719 Yeah, wonderful. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:58.080 Well, these are amazing people, so generous, so kind, such great contributors to everything that we're doing here at Carterville. 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.479 So thank you for joining us in this important discussion. 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.400 Adrian, I'm gonna throw the first question your your way, if that's all right. 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:06.960 Sure. 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:19.360 Um, but I would love for you to tell us on a personal level what drew you to this kind of work, financial planning and management, advice giving, and specifically, maybe more importantly, how do you see it as kingdom work? 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:19.920 Yeah. 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.639 So I didn't always know that this was a life for me. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.680 I started out pre-med and you see where where I ended. 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:32.800 But um, I took a financial planning course in college, and that really was just a light bulb moment for me. 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:38.800 I loved it and just began exploring ways to to use it as a career. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:46.240 As far as kingdom work, you know, when you're talking to somebody about finances, it's a very vulnerable thing. 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:54.959 And when people are comfortable enough to talk about money, they often tend to talk about a lot of non-financial things that are going on in their life. 00:04:55.120 --> 00:05:00.000 Um, and for many of the people that I work with, they become like family to me. 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:09.600 And just through the financial work, a relationship's built, and I have the opportunity to show compassion and then also say things that are hard but need to be said. 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:16.079 Um, but it's in the context of a relationship where they they trust me and they know that I have their best interest in mind. 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:23.600 Anytime you're working along some alongside somebody in the trenches, it has the opportunity to become kingdom work. 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:25.759 Yeah, that's that's that's amazing. 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:30.879 And I'm sure that we have so many people who are struggling who keep it to themselves, they're ashamed. 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:37.040 So having somebody like you and others to go to in those moments can be so meaningful and important. 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:37.680 That's great. 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:39.279 Uh, Mark, same question. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.759 I think for me, like what drew me into it was probably my dad, quite honestly. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:53.439 Uh, you know, growing up, he ran his own business, he he ran other businesses, you know, divisions of large corporations and things like that. 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.319 So financials were always super important to him. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:05.920 And managing cash flow and things like that were just something that it's almost like it was talked about uh about as much as like sports were at the dinner table. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:06.720 At the dinner table. 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.600 Hey, let's talk a little bit about cash flow today, kids. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.519 Uh so you know share your statement of activities with us today. 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:14.160 Exactly. 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:14.959 That'd be great. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:16.160 Please do that. 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.240 So, you know, it's just something I kind of I kind of grew up with. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:28.639 And when my rock band failed, uh, after I figured out I can't really play any instruments and and uh frankly I don't have a great singing voice. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:36.639 Yeah, you know, I was kind of left with uh financial planning and and I tend to lean more on the organizational side of things. 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:39.040 Um similar to you, Damien. 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:49.759 I I tend to be on that side of things, but you know, you know, I see it as kingdom work because I mean how many times do we see we see it talked about in the Proverbs, which I'll I'll even go back to my dad. 00:06:49.839 --> 00:07:00.160 That was something that was just pounded in my head, the idea of debt, you know, whether it's Proverbs 22, like those kinds of things were just always uh at the dinner table, apparently, right? 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:19.360 Uh but also Jesus talked about finances a lot, whether whether it was very directly or even within a parable, uh it's just something that obviously was very important uh for him to discuss and and probably is if Jesus is talking about it, it's probably important for us to talk about it as well and deal with it. 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:21.920 So absolutely, yeah, that's great. 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:24.240 Garrett, I'd love to hear your story. 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.279 Yeah, so pretty similar to Adrian's. 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:32.240 Um was declared pre-med going into college, and so we got two pre-med. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:32.720 Yeah, right. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.160 And a rock band. 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:36.160 And uh there you go. 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.360 Realized I didn't want to go to school another 12 years, didn't have it in me. 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:56.399 Uh I had taken a course, I think it was the Dave Ramsey teen version through my youth group in high school, and a light bulb kind of clicked that this is really interesting to me, of all things as a teenager. 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:11.839 Um, I I always kind of had this desire to be a teacher and a coach, but selfishly, um, football seasons during hunting season, and I had spent my whole life playing football and not hunting, so I had to find something else. 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:16.240 And so I view this career kind of as a teacher. 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.000 Um, I had always viewed this industry as more of a sales kind of culture. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:23.759 That's not me, I'm not a sales guy. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:38.720 Um, but I think I am a teacher, and so um I tell my kids all the time I'm really just teaching people about something that maybe they don't they don't have as much time and experience with, or maybe it's a little bit intimidating. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:47.759 And I like to think that I help maybe provide some some peace of mind and and comfort with uh folks going into retirement. 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:51.919 In my practice, I kind of specialize in in retirement income planning. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:55.679 So I have a lot of conversations with folks in that stage of life. 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.519 Uh, and that can be really scary. 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:14.240 And so providing some reassurance that, you know, they're gonna be able to pay their bills, but also do the things that they're passionate about, invest their time and their energy into ministries and different things that uh maybe they couldn't when they were working nine to five for their career. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.320 Um, and that's really fulfilling to see. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:17.840 You know, people get to do those things. 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:25.679 Yeah, I love that idea that you all are serving as teachers and coaches to run with that metaphor, because that really is at the heart of this series. 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:40.320 It's what if Jesus were our what if he was the most important voice, the most important coach, the most important teacher in our life when it comes specifically to this area of handling and managing our finances. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:54.080 Um, because I I, you know, hearing you all speak about feelings of shame or intimidation or fear, it's just so great to know that he is gentle and kind and compassionate and patient with us and has much wisdom to offer us. 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.320 And so that's what we want to dive into. 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:04.960 So uh the focus of this discussion really is exploring this tension, navigating this tension that it appears to exist within the scriptures. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.519 And so, on one hand, we have the clear voice of Jesus, right? 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:18.879 Watch out, he says, to the religious leaders, to people who are listening, watch out, be on your guard against all kinds of greed. 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.120 Now, there's actually two things he's teaching us there. 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:25.679 One, that greed is a problem, and we should watch out for it, obviously. 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:31.919 But there's actually a second thing he's saying, which is greed comes in all kinds of forms. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:36.399 It's not a one size fits all kind of sin, if you will. 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:38.080 It comes in lots of different forms. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:44.240 And so there's none of us around this table or listening at home right now or in your car that is exempt from this. 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:49.200 We all need to be mindful of the uh of the sin of greed. 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.919 Um, and he goes on to say life is not made up of an abundance of wealth. 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:55.600 Life is so much more than that. 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:07.679 And then you have Jesus teaching the parable of the sower, and he talks about one of the things that will choke out the word of God in our life, in his words, is the deceitfulness of wealth. 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.440 Um, and then his conversation with the rich young ruler, which of the commandments are the most important? 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.360 And Jesus says, Well, here's some of the Ten Commandments, and he's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I know all those. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.279 I've I've done all of that. 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:28.639 Jesus then looks deeply into his heart and says, What you need to do is you need to go sell everything you have, give it to the poor. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.120 And we read that he went away very sad. 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:36.720 And the reason why it tells us he went away very sad is because he had great wealth. 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:41.919 He was holding on tightly, clinging tightly to his money and his possessions. 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.440 So here's the question: what how do we avoid this? 00:11:45.600 --> 00:12:00.720 How do we take to heart Jesus' teaching to avoid all kinds of greed when we know that it's easily argued this is we are in the most wealthy generation in the history of human civilization? 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.720 So we probably should really hear what Jesus is saying. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:06.000 Watch out for it. 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:07.679 So here's my first question, Garrett. 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.679 I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it throw it to you. 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:27.360 Just personally, experientially, what choices have you made in your life to hold on loosely to your money, to your possessions, to live, as I talked about in the sermon this morning, to live with open hands rather than clenched fists? 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.120 What does that look like for you? 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:41.360 I know that you would say you haven't arrived, we're all in a in a journey with this, but what are some habits, some choices that you set up for yourself, your family that have helped you to live more generously over time? 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:42.000 Sure. 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:49.919 So the first and foremost is just to follow the command, you know, obey the teaching to to give. 00:12:50.240 --> 00:13:03.519 Um Aaron and I were blessed in that, I think we were on the same page early on in our marriage, um, to be able to um obey that and and make our life fit within what was left, right? 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:21.440 It's it's so much harder, uh, I think to cut things out when you that that desire to be maybe a little bit more generous comes later in life and you know, the the house and the car and the eating out and entertainment doesn't leave room for much else. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:48.080 And so if if you take it off the top, right, the a little a little bit for the church and a little bit for your future, and then whatever's left after that, your lifestyle fits within that, uh, it just makes it a lot easier to be consistent uh with that, you know, and and we've tried to do things, especially as as our family's grown and we have kids, um, to help them um see generosity. 00:13:48.399 --> 00:14:00.240 Um, you know, a an easy example I think of is for years uh at Christmas time, we get with a local school and find out from the counselor who, you know, where's a family that may be struggling. 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:15.360 And we make a point to go Christmas shopping with the kids and help them or allow them to help us, you know, pick things out for a certain age, a certain gender, um, you know, what what shoes are acceptable, you know. 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:25.519 Um, so that's been that's been fulfilling to see them kind of lean into that and and the joy they get in actually taking presents to the school that are wrapped, and we don't even know who they're going to. 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:26.720 Yeah, that's great. 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.799 Yeah, I'm hearing a couple things there. 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:34.000 So it really, I think what you're identifying is the principle of first fruits rather than last fruits. 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:34.720 Exactly. 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:40.399 It's it's making it a commitment and a priority to start somewhere and to give generously, provide. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.960 We'll get to that in a little bit for our family. 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.639 And then we have our lifestyle and and other things that we're um investing in. 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:50.720 And then also being proactive, right? 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.720 So not just waiting for opportunities to present themselves, but proactively seeking opportunities to be generous and to contribute. 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:57.120 That's right. 00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:57.759 And they're out there. 00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:58.720 There's there's lots of them. 00:14:58.960 --> 00:14:59.519 That's awesome. 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:00.000 That's great. 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.559 Yeah, Mark, Adrian, anything you would add to that? 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:08.879 Well, I I think it's uh love all that practical, uh, those practical pieces. 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:09.519 Absolutely. 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.159 It's like you gotta have a plan, you know. 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:20.480 Um that's a part of to me watching out is having an idea of what I'm actually gonna do with with the money, right? 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:29.519 But one of the things, even like from a heart perspective, when we talk about like Jesus and when he's looking at at this this this rich dude who's just like, what do I need to do? 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.720 You're like, I've done all these other things, and he's like, give up everything. 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:38.159 And it it it wasn't just simply about giving up everything, it was about the heart of the person. 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:45.519 And so for me, just even like a heart level practice is me beginning to understand what am I focusing in on. 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:57.440 So, like, for instance, um, I I know it sounds crazy for a planner to say, if I spend all my time focusing on what my retirement account looks like and how much money I'm making on it, and you know what I mean? 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.360 I get I get really consumed in that. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:16.879 I've made a plan, I've set aside the money and it's invested, like and it's growing, but when I become obsessed with it, when it becomes the full focus of my life, um, that becomes a little bit of a problem for me because now I'm I'm starting to think all about the money, right? 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:29.600 Or if it's this if it's the things that I have that either I could afford or couldn't afford, but they become the center focus of my life as opposed to following Jesus, um, it it really becomes kind of a heart issue. 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:37.440 So so on top of the plan, it's it's also this idea of watching out and guarding myself to not become obsessed with the plan. 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:48.080 Yeah, that's good, which starts with the heart, and definitely encourage everyone to listen to last week's sermon that Austin uh preached where he taught talks about changing our focus. 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:49.600 What are we looking at? 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.879 What are we uh giving our fullest attention to? 00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:01.120 Um, because the eye is the lamp of the body, and so what we're focused on is going to infiltrate our heart, and so that's great, that's great wisdom and advice. 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:11.279 Yeah, I think I think of Hebrews uh where they talk about giving sacrificially, and it there's always in the back of my mind, what am I sacrificing in giving? 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:18.720 You know, you a a lot of folks may get to a point where it's maybe not as big of a challenge to give routinely. 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.559 Um, you know, it I've heard it's easier to give out of abundance. 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.319 I think there's a lot of truth to that. 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.519 And so there's got to be a sacrifice component. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:29.359 And that goes back to the heart, right? 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:33.599 If if you're sacrificing something, then um it's for something greater. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:34.960 Yeah, that's great. 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:35.279 Great. 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:36.640 Adrian, anything more? 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:37.359 Yeah. 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.400 Um, you know, two things are are true about me. 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.759 Um, number one being I have a deep need for security. 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:50.079 Um, knowing that if life throws us a curveball, maybe we have to make some hard choices, but we're gonna be okay. 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:51.920 Um, there's a need for security. 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.519 That means being able to take care of my babies if something happens, and that's just that's really important to me. 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:02.720 Um, the second thing that's true about me is that I really enjoy being generous. 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.960 I've always felt like God's called me to give. 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:11.359 Um, Rusty and I, like Garrett said, um, Rusty and I early on just developed the habit of tithing. 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:16.559 And thankfully we're in a different place now, a different season of life where that's not as hard. 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.119 Um, that's not, it doesn't feel like as much of a sacrifice. 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:24.240 And so we're at the point where we're really digging into what does sacrificial giving look like? 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:31.920 And one of the ways we've been able to get comfortable with that, I guess, um in in our house, we know our numbers. 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:36.880 We know exactly what we need to meet our responsibilities today and in the future. 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:42.799 And when that's taken care of, it's easy to say everything beyond that can go. 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:48.880 Um just there's there's so much power in being able to confidently say, I don't need this, I have enough. 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:55.839 Um, and so it allows us the space, the freedom, the ability to give without looking back. 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.039 Um, because we know that that we're taken care of. 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:04.480 Um again, God's in control, we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring, and I think we're gonna be okay. 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:09.200 Uh and so just having that that freedom to let it go. 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.240 It's not gonna change my life, but it could sure change someone else's. 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.799 Wow, wow, that's that's amazing. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.440 Has he ever let you down in that approach? 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:18.079 No. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.400 No, yeah, that's so good. 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.039 Um that that's so so amazing. 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:29.759 And you know, I I'm sure there are some folks that are listening that maybe are inspired by what you all have just shared. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:43.839 Um yeah, so if you could give them one sentence next steps, what what would those what would those next steps be in a s in a sentence or two or three? 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.000 That's a challenge of boiling it down. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:47.039 Yeah, boiling down. 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:47.920 I don't know. 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:49.759 Next steps for me is always start. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:50.720 Yeah, starting. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.240 Like start. 00:19:52.400 --> 00:20:00.559 I you know, you know, one of the things even in even that I think about like early on, I wish I would have started earlier. 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:08.160 Like, I mean, frankly, if I'd have started in in high school, even when I I started working at 14 years old, you know. 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.640 Um just you gotta start. 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.279 Yeah, and it is a practice, what Adrian was sharing. 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:34.240 You develop muscle memory, you find joy in it over time, maybe not always right away, yeah, but over time you find joy in it, you see and feel the Lord's provision, and there's incredible satisfaction in that, and you become reassured of his presence in that, but it all starts with starting somewhere, right? 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.799 Don't expect you're gonna be an expert day one. 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:37.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:38.400 It's like start. 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:39.359 Yeah, that's good. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.000 That's good. 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.480 Yeah. 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:41.680 I'd echo that. 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:46.799 I'd say have a plan, know your goals, stay focused, be diligent, start early. 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:52.640 Um, and then I think equally important, become an expert in contentment and gratitude. 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:59.680 Um, that's what's going to be more meaningful than the the dollars you accumulate or the dollars you spend. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.559 Just being grateful, grateful for what you have develops that contentment, which will go a long way. 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:05.200 Yeah. 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:14.880 It's so have a plan, so interesting, because we think about having a plan for retirement, having a plan to pay the bills, right? 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:16.559 Uh what we call a budget. 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:23.039 Have a plan for living generously, for giving regularly. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:30.160 We don't, I don't think we often talk about or think about it in those terms, but that's what I'm hearing is developing that plan. 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:30.400 Great. 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.960 Yeah, and I I think it's maybe sometimes easier to find that joy in giving when we're giving to something that we're passionate about. 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:44.319 And so I I would encourage folks to look at those things in their life that they're involved in that they can really get behind. 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:49.440 You know, like in our family, we've been we've been fostering kids for about 10 years. 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:56.640 And so organizations like ACASA or Fostering Hope, um those are are really close to our heart. 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.759 Other people, maybe you're in the healthcare industry, you know, in the community. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:07.440 Clinic might be something that tugs on you, or you may have a connection to I I grew up wrestling in high school with Jay Greer. 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:07.759 Yeah. 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:08.160 Right? 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.119 Working in in ministry planting churches in Japan. 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.720 And so I feel connection there. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.200 And so think of those things that that really kind of get you excited. 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:28.240 Um, and then the the more mundane, if you will, it seems you know, people for whatever reason uh are are less excited about giving to the light bill at the church building, you know. 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:33.839 But once it's more of a habit, that becomes uh even something that brings you joy too. 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:35.119 Yeah, that's so good. 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.119 All right, well, let's let's flip the coin here and talk about this tension. 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:45.279 On the other hand, yes, Jesus is urging us, commanding us to live generously. 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:54.960 And yet it's very clear in scripture we we need to be prudent, we need to be wise, we need to prepare for the future, we need to provide for our family. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:10.720 Uh, Paul maybe is uh the most clear in this anyone who doesn't provide for their relatives, their family, their biological family, especially for their own immediate household, I mean, this is strong language, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.480 Like there, there's a lot at stake here. 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:21.200 So obviously, to be able to do that requires us to have prudence and wisdom in how we're managing our affairs. 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:25.119 Um, and it's not just our biological family, but our spiritual family. 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.920 Galatians 6, don't grow weary in doing good. 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.519 We'll reap a harvest. 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:37.359 Um, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially, he says, to believers, to fellow believers. 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.680 And that's exactly what we see in the book of Acts. 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.599 There were no needy persons among them. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:50.160 From time to time, they took what they had accumulated, their possessions, their wealth, and they they gave it away to take care of each other. 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:59.839 And so this is a beautiful picture of the church and a beautiful picture of what we're to be for each other as a family, both biologically speaking and spiritually speaking. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.759 Mark, you talked about Proverbs. 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.240 We don't have time to unpack all of the wisdom in Proverbs. 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:10.640 One of my favorites, though, is go to the ant, you sluggard. 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.920 Consider its ways and be wise. 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:23.039 And then later on, he he talks about a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come on you like a thief. 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:24.720 Ouch. 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:30.880 Other translations say it like a bandit, which I think is a much cooler way to say that. 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:38.240 And the idea is that we there is to be an aspect of our financial management of preparation and provision. 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.319 So, how do we how do we balance that tension? 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:41.359 What does that look like? 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:46.480 What what um I'll let you kind of go whatever direction you want to go. 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.880 What mistakes have you experienced or seen that are to be avoided? 00:24:51.200 --> 00:25:00.480 Or what wisdom, guidance would you give to somebody who wants to grow and improve in this area of financial management and and wisdom? 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.160 Mark, I'm gonna put you on the spot. 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:03.200 Good. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.279 What what yeah, start us off here? 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:06.720 Well, I think it is kind of interesting. 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:12.480 You mentioned the whole the whole idea of I mean, he tells us to look to the ant. 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:26.000 And I think uh when I think about that, I'm just like, he is asking us to go to a bug to get some wisdom as to how to deal with things, and and immediately comes to my mind is simple. 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:33.839 Like, I think sometimes we overcomplicate everything that we make it way harder. 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:41.839 I mean, Garrett, I've been l even listening to you, we were just like, well, I mean, the first thing we do is we just figure out like how are we going to give to the Lord? 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:46.000 Like that's a simple, simple thing to do, right? 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:55.680 And then, and then, you know, even just very very fundamentally, you you spend less than you take in. 00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:56.720 You know what I mean? 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.119 Like there's these little bitty things that are just incredibly simple. 00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:19.920 But what I find and and anytime that I've made uh a mess of things, um, because you know, there's not a perfect person around the table, but anytime I make a mess of things, I I t I typically tend to overcomplicate and make it so complex that it's hard to manage, it's hard to to work with it. 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:28.319 And you know, I think the example of the Anne is is very clear, it's clear in some ways, like you know, even they've got it figured out and it's real simple. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.440 Like, you know what I mean? 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:31.279 You gotta you gotta plan ahead. 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:33.920 Don't overcomplicate, make things simple. 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.079 Um and there's honestly so many frameworks out there. 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.960 Uh, you know, we've mentioned Dave Ramsey in here, it's a super simple framework. 00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:48.559 Are there people that are gonna pick it apart and say, well, yeah, but you could you could earn a little bit more doing this? 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.319 Well, sure, but you don't have to be that complicated. 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:53.519 Yeah, keep it simple. 00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:08.319 Yeah, I mean the basic principle is the ant innately knows what it needs for the future and makes sure that it has that's for the future, and so it's having that simplicity of of approach. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:19.920 What what is needed versus what is wanted, absolutely, and being able to have the wisdom to differentiate the two sounds like a good starting point. 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:20.480 That's great. 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.680 Yeah, Garrett, Adrian, what other additional advice would you give? 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:29.519 I I I would just want to share that this has been a struggle for me personally for years. 00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.119 Um, I've always wanted to kind of figure it out, right? 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.079 What's the what's the right answer on generosity and stewardship? 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:48.160 Because there is, I I think there's from a quantity standpoint, there's more teaching on caution against greed than there is stewardship. 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.720 Um, but they're both there, right? 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.319 And they are they're at odds with each other, right? 00:27:54.400 --> 00:28:00.319 At the end of the day, there's so many dollars, and you can choose to give it away or you can choose to set it back for yourself, right? 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.640 And uh you can't do both with the same dollar. 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:30.079 It's unlike, you know, we we have the fruits of the spirit in Galatians, and often I forget about what precedes the listing of the fruits of the spirit, the the desires of the flesh, the sinful nature, and we have a real clear contrast in those traits: hatred versus love, impurity versus self-control, discord and peace, fits of rage versus joy. 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:34.079 But what if you said generosity versus stewardship? 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:40.240 Well, you want both, but you can't have both at the same time always. 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:49.599 And so I I think just this comfort with living in that tension is something that that I've had to get comfortable with. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.359 Um I I like to think of it as a tug of war, right? 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.000 Where both sides are pulling. 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:01.519 And if if there's ever a point where it seems like one side is winning, then maybe I need to reevaluate a little bit. 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:03.680 It's like the worst game of tug of war ever. 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.960 Nobody ever wins. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:07.200 Just keep pulling and pulling and pulling. 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:07.440 Yeah. 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:19.359 But if if it's I'm feeling really good about my stewardship, um, but the generosity is a little bit of an afterthought, maybe that side needs to be pulling a little bit harder. 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:19.839 Yeah. 00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:20.640 Or vice versa. 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:22.559 Yeah, yeah, that's well, that's well said. 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:23.680 Yeah, that's good. 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.400 Yeah, and that's that we're exploring this tension. 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.319 We're not resolving it right necessarily, right? 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:38.000 We want to live in it, we want to embrace it, uh figure out what that looks like for us day in and day out. 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:39.440 That's a great, that's a great word. 00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:40.400 Yeah, Adrian. 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:47.839 Yeah, I'll share a mistake that I've repeated year after year that probably created more tension than it resolved. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:49.599 Not probably it did. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.359 Um it's really an attitude of my heart. 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:59.680 Um, I distinctly remember a time when we had enough to meet our needs, but it wasn't much extra than needs. 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.000 Um we're talking needs, not wants. 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:07.039 Um I was vacuuming the living room and the carpet was just really worn. 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.720 You could see these dingy paths where people routinely walked. 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.759 It had bubbles and ripples that just needed to be stretched out. 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:18.559 Um, but it wasn't something that it would have been wise to replace at that time. 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.039 There just wasn't the money for it. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.759 It would have created stresses in other areas if we had. 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.119 It was just not the at the top of the priority list. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:32.079 And fast forward a few years, we were finally able to redo that flooring. 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:37.680 And I was so thankful, but I'm gonna be honest and say that um it didn't change my life. 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:44.640 Um, as intensely as I wanted that new floor, you would have thought that my life would have been made um by the time we got it. 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:48.000 And the new floor was great, but again, it didn't change my life. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.160 And let's be candid here. 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:53.039 I'm I'm in what you call midlife now. 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.079 Um, and it's really taken me this long to understand the power of contentment. 00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:08.880 Um, I used to regularly wish for the future and just think about things like once this happens in my life, things will be so much better, or once this is done, my life will be so much easier. 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.599 I spent so much time wishing for the future. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.319 I honestly feel like I miss the blessings of the present. 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.680 And let me just tell you, like, I'm living in the future now. 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.119 And looking back, I wish I would have soaked in more of the past. 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:26.160 Uh things were simpler then, and those years had blessings of their own that I just didn't fully recognize. 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:32.720 Um, and I wish I would have been more content and grateful for every stage, um, no matter what that looked like. 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.559 Yeah, wow, that's a great word. 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.000 And I think contentment is such a key part of this whole conversation, isn't it? 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:51.920 Yeah, we're embracing this tension, we want to live generously, we're actively, proactively planning on it, looking for opportunities, investing in things that we're passionate about or relationships. 00:31:52.480 --> 00:32:08.000 At not instead of that, but also we're taking care of our family, we're taking care of our church, we're putting away for the future so that we can continue to be a blessing to those around us, have the right mindset. 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:20.480 And in all of it, maybe at the heart of it, at the center of it, is contentment, a satisfaction with what the Lord has provided uh for us, which is such a difficult thing. 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:29.200 Well, we've come to near the end of this this uh discussion, so I want to give you a chance to offer a final word, if you will, um a final final encouragement. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:33.440 And um yeah, Garrett, we'll start with you. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.160 What would you like to pass on to the listeners? 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:37.119 I'm not ready. 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.160 He's not ready. 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.119 Garrett, I'll let you contemplate that for a moment. 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.000 Mark, are you do you have a final word? 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:59.359 I think I think honestly, you know, I I'd probably summarize a a couple of things that that we've talked about and that that really stuck out in my mind, which is you know, uh, I think Garrett said it right at the top. 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.240 Like, I mean, let's make God first. 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:07.519 If we're making God first in every other part of our life, it it should include our finances as well. 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:30.000 So the earlier on, uh, you know, for the young couples out there, the earlier on, the young individual, the the high school student, whoever it is, you've got a job, the faster you come to the realization I need to make God a priority in my life, and that includes my finances, the better off you are uh for for living that consistently the rest of your life. 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:36.799 Um the the older I get, the harder it is, you know, you hear the phrase, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, right? 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.759 So you better learn the tricks early on, right? 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:49.440 And uh, you know, the other thing is, you know, if if you're uh if you're thinking about a budget, you don't know how to do it, there's lots of frameworks out there. 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.200 Don't don't get too complex. 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:52.720 There's no reason for that. 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.519 It's not that, it doesn't need to be that hard. 00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:00.480 And if you're dealing with things like debt, uh that can be super overwhelming. 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:12.639 I know uh I've I've worked with people that have had mountains of debt, and it can be debilitating to the point that you don't do anything, and that's the wrong decision. 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.840 Yeah, you know what I mean? 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:20.639 So when you start feeling debilitated, that's that's a great time to go find somebody like that's a financial player. 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.639