Breastfeeding Unplugged
Breastfeeding Unplugged
Pumping and Transitioning Back to Work
The first few weeks with a new baby are so precious - and also SO DARN HARD. For mom, it’s a time of healing as well as a whole new beginning. Life becomes about getting to know rhythms, establishing routines, and building a relationship with someone who has lived inside of you for a whole nine months. The “fourth trimester”, as we call it, is one of extremes - complete exhaustion matched only by utter adoration for this new tiny human being that has now completely taken over your life.
But then, for so many mommas, that precious “getting to know you” time is cut suddenly short. In the U.S., while some private companies and a few - make that six - individual states do grant parents some kind of leave package, 50% of moms surveyed find themselves going back to the office far earlier than they are ready.
Couple that with 62% of mothers in the workforce with children under the age of three, and you can see that the potential influence of the workplace environment on breastfeeding initiation and duration is substantial.
So that’s what we are going to talk a little bit about today.
My guest for this week’s podcast is Debi Yadegari, Founder and CEO of Villyge, an employer-paid benefit that connects employees one-on-one with career coaches, parenting experts, and healthcare specialists. Villyge also works with employers to shape corporate culture and create parent-friendly workplaces that encourage retention, expand the talent pool and increase diversity, equity, and inclusion.
We hope you enjoy this week's show!
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamas and mamas-to-be. A podcast dedicated to helping moms navigate their way through the tricky world of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Hello mamas and mamas-to-be. It's Amanda from Nest Collaborative here and I am thrilled to have you with us today for another episode of Breastfeeding Unplugged. The first few weeks with a new baby are so precious, and also so darn hard. For Mom, it's a time of healing as well as a whole new beginning. Life becomes about getting to know rhythms, establishing routines and building a relationship with someone who has lived inside of you for a whole nine months. This fourth trimester as we call it is really one of extremes; complete exhaustion matched only by utter adoration for this tiny human being that has now completely taken over your life. But then for so many mama's that precious getting-to-know-you time is cut suddenly short. So let's paint a bit of a picture on this. According to the Pew Research Center, almost half of two-parent families in the US now include two full time working parents. The Journal of Human Lactation reports that on average, mothers working full time in the US returned to work at 10 weeks postpartum. And then let's not forget research from the OECD, which points the finger at the US for being the only nation of 40 other developed countries in the world with no paid maternity leave. In the US, while some private companies and a few (make that six) individual states do grant parents some kind of leave package 50% of moms surveyed find themselves going back to the office far earlier than they are actually ready. Couple that with 62% of mothers in the workforce with children under the age of three and you can see that the potential influence of the workplace environment on breastfeeding initiation and duration is substantial. My guest for this week's podcast is Debi Yadegari, founder and CEO of Villyge. An employer paid benefit that connects employees one on one with career coaches, parenting experts and healthcare specialists. Villyge also works with employers to shape corporate culture and create parent friendly workplaces that encourage retention, expand the talent pool and increase diversity, equity and inclusion. Debi, welcome to the show. We're so thrilled to have you.
Debi Yadegari:Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here, Amanda.
Amanda Gorman:Oh, well, we're very happy to have you. So before we kick off, I'd just love to hear a little bit about how you started Villyge. It's really such an amazing resource that moms and moms-to-be really need to know about.
Debi Yadegari:Thanks. So I started Villyge out of my own experience. Before I began Villyge and before I entered parenthood, I was in Big Law. My last job was at an international investment bank. I found myself pregnant and it was like this elephant in the room that just wasn't addressed. Even far worse than that, I was told at one point before I announced my pregnancy that if I was ever to become pregnant, I would end up killing my career at that place of employment. I couldn't believe it. The backstory was somebody in our department, a male, he had been trying to conceive with his wife and had been using the community printer. And somebody stumbled upon all of these articles. And it was just assumed that they were my articles. So somebody came into my office one day and was like, haha, I have to tell you a funny joke. You know, Kevin is expecting but I thought it was you. And then she just went on and on and on another lawyer within the legal departments about a female lawyer about how if that had been me, I would have been killing my career, etc, etc. She went on and on. I announced my pregnancy the next week. So then it carried on that entire time as just kind of like the elephant in the room until I went out on leave. And I have five children, but my oldest is 15. So I was pregnant in 2004, which predated the Affordable Care Act, which was the first piece of legislation to give women the federal right to take breaks to address their lactation needs within the office. So I didn't have those rights. And so I went out on leave, it came time to come back, I had struggled and struggled and struggled to breastfeed. And when I returned to work, there was no support for me as a breastfeeding mom. And there was also no support for me as a working parent. So six months later, I ended up actually walking away. No surprise there, given that 43% of all moms and 33% of all dads will end up changing their employer post baby. So I went on to you know, live the happy homemaker life for a couple of years, I had four kids within five years. But it always weighed on me that there was a tremendous brain drain. And that I never saw myself as a stay at home mom, I always saw myself as a working mom. And there was this disassociation between what working mothers needed to be successful at home and in the office and what employers were willing to offer. And that's where I knew Villyge, I had to do something, I had to create a solution. And that's where Villyge came in. So Villyge comes in, to close that gap, and to offer breastfeeding mothers support in the office as well as all working parents. So as you stated before, we offer one-on-one coaching for the employees. But we also work closely with the employers to create parent-friendly workplaces that encourage productivity and motivation and just create a place that working parents want to be long term and where they will have an upward career trajectory and not have somebody telling them that they're going to be killing their career, if they have a kid, you know, in the background of Zoom these days, so that that's the backstory.
Amanda Gorman:No, that's fantastic, and such an invaluable resource. So thank you, for bringing Villyge to the table for for all of us families. I'd love to start with a question, you know, and dive in really, to the whole topic today. Because you know, one of the first things a new mom really needs to start thinking about is making a plan with her employer, really before she even starts maternity leave. So tell us about what moms today should be doing when they are working and find out they're expecting.
Debi Yadegari:Yeah. First off, know your benefits. You know, even long before you announced, if you want, you can poke around perhaps on your intranet or even check the employee handbook and know what your rights are. And you know, not just your legal rights, but your rights as an employee, what you're entitled to, as part of that organization. Some offices will offer you 12 paid weeks, some will offer you the opportunity to take an extra three months unpaid, some offices will be unable to provide paid leave as you started out with your intro. So know your benefits, so you can plan both financially and mentally and just get ready for what to expect. Next, once you've already disclosed, that you're pregnant, within the office, and as time progresses, you want to start to think about that transition plan. It's a wonderful opportunity to show everybody what you've been working on, right. Usually like as employees, we always get upset, we're like, nobody recognizes what we're doing. You know, we don't have the opportunity to toot our own horn and say, hey, look, you know, my hand is in 52 cookie jars. But like, as somebody going out on leave, this is your opportunity to put all of those kudos in your transition plan. So that we everybody in your team knows how many matters you've been working on, how vital and essential you are to that team. And in essence, it's not just a plan or a pathway for how they will carry on in your absence. But it also becomes a marketing tool for your own career. So it's your opportunity to make sure that everybody knows that you are a necessary part of that team. And along with that, you should use it as an opportunity to connect with your manager, your boss or your supervisor, and ask for a review. You want to make sure that you are on good footing with your superiors before you go out. A lot of the litigation that we see comes from, you know, issues that weren't addressed and were just lingering there. And maybe the manager, the supervisor, wasn't quite sure how to bring it up because you know, somebody is pregnant and you know, everybody knows that you can't fire someone who's pregnant, then someone comes back from leave and then they waited a little bit of time and then you know fast forward and we're in a discrimination lawsuit. That's no fun for anybody. And so often, all of that could have been avoided by just having a conversation upfront and we tell managers this too. It's always good to have a review, you know, at least three months or even further in advance of somebody's departure on leave. Um, something else to think about communication plan, that's also something that's often not addressed is, do you want to be in touch with your office? Or do you want to go on blackout, you can absolutely tell everybody I'm checking out, this is my bonding time with baby. And that is your right, your prerogative. But some employees want to, you know, stay in touch, stay in contact, they might want to connect by Zoom with even though for team meetings or for the quarterly update, and have that conversation. You set the tone with your employer, and make sure that it's on your terms. And don't feel like you have to do anything during that time that you don't want to. But just make sure that there's open communication, and then all of that will help transit will help you to transition out, and then also back successfully. So you can also talk about, at that time before you go back, how do you want to transition back, you know, some of what we suggest is to consider taking your last two weeks of leave as a part time employee, you know, so that way you have four weeks working part time, rather than, you know, just going from two weeks home to back into the office full time, you know, to the extent that you know your, you know, approximate return date, you can start to give your employer a heads up, you know, think about coming back on a Wednesday, especially if you're a pumping mom, you know, that's going to be a big change, you know, don't go back on a Monday, that's going to be too much brain drain, you know, so, so staggered. And even if it's not your final two weeks of leave, that are being staggered, maybe you can take just a week, or a couple of days to transition, you know, even if you're going to build up a little bit. So plan, you know, you can start to plan those things out. But also recognize that your life is about to take a 180 degree turn, detour, and everything's up in the air. And so just make sure that everybody in your team knows that, hey, this is what I think I want. This is, you know what I think my plan is going to look like on leave, but recognize that it's subject to change. But beforehand, set your team up for success, and set yourself up to look like a rock star by showing everybody, you know, everything that you've done up until that time.
Amanda Gorman:Oh, my gosh, these are all such amazing suggestions. Clearly, you really are the expert on this field and I love it. I think this is so helpful for our moms out there to hear. Are there any laws or rules that women should familiarize themselves? You spoke a little bit about knowing your benefits at work, but what legally should they know about what their company should be following?
Debi Yadegari:Yeah, well, when it comes to breastfeeding, you have there are federal laws, state laws, and even local laws. And some of the local laws get into minutiae of how lactation accommodation requests are even supposed to be handled. For instance, in San Francisco, if somebody comes in the office and says, "Hey, you know, I'm going to need to use the lactation room" or mother's room or whatever they call it there then by law, that employer needs to detail how that request was handled, and keep it on file for three years. So I mean, the laws in some parts of our country go into tiny little details that employee doesn't necessarily need to worry about. You don't need to go look up the statute and know the ins and outs of everything. But do know that under federal law, you have a right to take as many breaks as are needed throughout the workday to attend to your lactation needs. This isn't something that needs to be scheduled in advance or cleared in advance, because the legislators recognize that, you know, biology is coming to play here, you know, you can't, you might not necessarily be able to wait until the end of the meeting. You don't want to compromise your milk supply by delaying the time that you need to express your milk. So the law is on your side there. Employers have to provide you with a place that is safe and secure and that is free from intrusion. And it cannot be a bathroom. So you know, unfortunately, even in 2021 we're still hearing stories about employers saying "Oh, great, we've got this awesome executive bathroom, you know, and here's the key." No good. Like, if there's a toilet there, you know, nobody wants to make their breakfast there; nobody wants to make their baby's food there. No bathrooms. So that's the very basics. Certain states will give extra rights. For instance, if you're in Illinois, those breastfeeding brakes or lactation pumping brakes, must be paid. You know, that's an exception to the rule. So certain states have different offerings or different entitlements that other states don't have. If you're in New York City, your lactation space needs to be in close proximity to running water and have access to refrigeration. But not everywhere, not all moms throughout the country are going to be entitled to those same benefits. So there are some websites that you can check out. You can just google what are the rights there, a great website is usbreastfeeding.org. Or you can go to ncsl.org, which stands for National Conference of State Legislators, but just to make it simple, just Google, you know, state breastfeeding laws. And inevitably, you're going to come up with something to see if you're entitled to more, but at the very, very minimum, know that you have an absolute right to pump in the office. And nobody can take that away from you. And nobody can discriminate against you for that, right.
Amanda Gorman:That's so important. And I think it's really important to note because we, we see this at Nest Collaborative all the time, women's bodies are different, and one woman might need to pump every two hours, and one is able to maintain a supply pumping every three, four hours. And, you know, employers can't really write the rule based on one body type. So this is fantastic. I can imagine these conversations can certainly be awkward sometimes with employers, particularly if you might have a male superior. Any thoughts? Or tips on how to make it smoother, easier?
Debi Yadegari:Yeah. The reason it's so awkward is in part why Villyges is in business right, nobody wants to talk about boobies in the office,
Amanda Gorman:Haha, I don't think they can either right?
Debi Yadegari:It, it's awesome. Whenever we're going up for a company, if there's, you know, a guy in charge of decision making, like, just let me sign it, let me push it to the side here. So in that same contact, make it simple, you know, if you if you don't have a relationship that's open, send an email, to your male superior and just lay out the fact, you know. I'm going to be returning from leave or after I returned from lead just a heads up, I plan to be, I'm going to continue breastfeeding my child, what this means is I'm going to need to take three to four breaks, breaks every two to three hours, whatever it is, or, you know, you can even say I'm not quite sure right now my body will, you know, has to regulate. Right now, I can't predict but I expect, um, and what are the procedures to gain access to the lactation room or, you know, for procedures to gain access to lactation room, we should actually ask HR, depending on your place of business, if you have given resources for smaller company, you might have to have that conversation with your superior directly. You know, some small companies, they need to make space, you know, they need to clear out an office or a closet, not a bathroom, or something. So if you have a smaller company, and you're not quite sure what the lactation accommodations are there, um, provide some advance notice so people can get things in order and it'll just make it easier for all parties. But you know, to avoid some of the awkwardness, you can you can email, you know, just these are the facts, these are the accommodations that you need. So email it.
Amanda Gorman:Great. And so obviously, the biggest focus for these moms returning to work after having a baby is pumping. So in addition to if they have a lactation room, or they're ready to set one up and accommodate, what else should moms be asking for prior to returning from their employer?
Debi Yadegari:Yeah. They should ask for a copy of lactation accommodation policy. In the office if they don't already have a copy of it. You know, it should be in the employee handbook. They should just know what the company says about the policy. Maybe there are specific requirements on scheduling the room in advance. You know, of course, you have the rights to, you know, to take those breaks and to attend to your body's needs at any time. But we also have to recognize, you know, there could be four breastfeeding moms in the office at the same time. So how are we going to play nicely and share the space? You know, how are you going to work out those details. If your office doesn't already have one and they and it's a bigger company think about requesting a hospital grade breast pump. Companies can rent these for, you know, nominal pricing, you know, less than what they spend on coffee probably in a month. You know, Villyge provides these to companies. They allow a mom to pump more milk in less time which becomes a win-win because nobody likes to take lactation breaks and companies don't like it when their employer employees are on break either. So less breaks more work. Oftentimes they're willing to foot the bill. What else do you need to know? That's different companies. You just have to know your policies, how to access the room. And you know, you can always request for the pump. That's great.
Amanda Gorman:Oh, awesome. This is so helpful and so informative. I know we have a ton more to talk about. We're going to pause for a quick break and be back with Debi in just a few minutes. So stay tuned. Like many of us, I've been trying to use less plastic in our household. I just tried Shambar, a new sulfate-free shampoo and conditioner in a bar and it blew me away. Here's what I loved about Sham bar. No yucky stuff, no synthetic fragrances or harsh color-fading sulfates. As a mom, it feels good to know that I'm using a safer product that my hair is healthier and it's saving me more trips to the salon for coloring and more highlights. Each Shambar replaces to 18 ounce single use plastic bottles. It's a family business and for every order, they donate a month's worth of soap to a family in need. What a relevant give back to make sure all families have the resources that they need; a win-win. Get your first bar absolutely free when you use the code"FIRSTFREE" all one word F-I-R-S-T-F-R-E-E on one of their flexible cancel-anytime super easy subscriptions, Find out more at shambar.com. Hi mamas, we are back with Debi Yadegari, founder and CEO of Villyge. Before the break, we talked a bit about creating a plan as a breastfeeding mom and going back to work. Now I'd like to switch gears a bit and talk about what moms can do to make pumping and storing their milk at work a little easier. Debbie, we know that prep really needs to start at home before mom heads back to work. What should our listeners be doing.
Debi Yadegari:So first off, you want to start to create your stash well before your return to work. So early on in your leave, you know, every lactation consultants going to give you her own, his or her own opinion. But you know, after your milk comes in, and it's regulated, I always recommend to get in the habit of pumping one extra bottle in the morning. Simply because of circadian rhythms, it's easier to produce more milk in the morning. And so just get in the habit of creating one little freezer bag that you can give to your caregiver for when you do go back to work. And it will have, it will allow you to have peace of mind if you have a little bit of a stash and you're not working to create Monday's milk for Tuesday, you know if you're one day further along, so that will provide some comfort. Number two, start thinking about your caregiver, right. It's not enough just to find a babysitter or a daycare or a nanny, but start to educate them on what it is like to care for a breastfeeding baby. Educate them on upright feeding. The last thing that you want is them tearing through that milk stash that you've worked so hard to create. Day one or day two, we hear that so often from working moms that they're devastated that their daycare is calling them and telling them that they're they've run out of milk, that the baby is hungry that they're going to need to turn to formula. Dig in, find out how much your daycare center or your nanny knows about breastfeeding babies. And if it's a daycare center, find out about their policies, one daycare center that somebody that we're working with used, they had a policy, so if baby didn't finish the milk, it would have to be discarded within 15 minutes. For, you know, a breastfed baby this is not the same as a bottle of formula, you know, and that milk to get thrown out you know to give baby a time clock, I mean, it was awful. So we encourage the mom to save her milk in one ounce increments. So that way an entire four ounce bottle would not be wasted. But it was just one ounce here and one ounch there and it was more work for the daycare. You know, obviously to prepare, you know, those little extra increments, but it was a way to preserve the milk stash. So save the milk, like everything is all about saving the milk. Other things to prepare, before you go back to work make sure, not the night before but you know when you're well rested, you know, at some time a few days before and double check it again, pack your bag of things that you're going to need. Make sure that you're thinking about what outfit you're going to wear on your first day back. Have thrown in some Ziploc bags to bring home the dirty flanges every night or if you prefer to clean everything in the office if the lactation room is set up so you can leave your stuff out to dry overnight. If you feel comfortable with that, then think about bringing in the brush and the soap and anything that you're going to need to clean your bottles there. Ah, if you do have access to a hospital grade breast pump in the office, bring an extra set of bottles and flanges to keep there. So that way in the event that you bring it home one night, you have an extra set there. Luckily, a lot of the companies that we work with through Villyge, they utilize our hospital grade breast pumps, and they'll keep it extra hygenic kits on hand for moms in the event that they do forget them or lose a part. If your company doesn't provide access to such a thing, then definitely make sure that you have an extra set you never want to find yourself at work you know missing a pump part. Think about your storage and your commute and how you're going to be bringing your milk to and from the office, is it, do you prefer to carry it back and forth in bags that then you're immediately going to put in the freezer? Or do you prefer to keep it in the bottle that will then be used the next day with your daycare provider, you know, so think about what works best for you. And those are things that you're not going to be able to plan if you're listening to this podcast while pregnant. It's after you get into a routine and know how you're interacting with your pump, with your body with you know, everyone has a preference for how they like to store their milk. You know, what apparatus they like, whether it's in bottles or bags, I mean, for me, I was all about the bag and I had a waffle box, I would put the milk on the waffle box so that way it would freeze perfectly flat. And then I could stack them in a little like box that I had, you know, everyone figures out their own organizational system, just make sure to create something that works for you. And along those lines, when you're thinking about organizing your milk for return to work, even if you have a daycare center that is not you know, crazy, and going to dump the milk after 15 minutes, it's always wise to have like snack increments, or you know the little like, half notches. So you know, have the four ounces ready to go for full bottles, but also have some two ounces and one ounces frozen in case you get stuck at work. And you know, you just want to give baby a little bit snack. But you don't want to allow baby to have a full bottle because you want to be able to empty your breasts when you come home and not have to pump again when you get home. So planning is what's key when you go back to work.
Amanda Gorman:So good and so helpful. So what about wardrobe? What are your favorite must haves for moms who are pumping at work?
Debi Yadegari:Buttons! Absolutely buttons. No dresses like, you know, no zip up dresses in the back, that's going to be a nightmare. You don't want to be in a situation where you feel like you have to get a half naked to pump in the office. So buttons are great, you absolutely want to think about your bra. Make sure that you also choose materials that are patient with leaks and drips, you know, you never want to have like a white silk blouse. That's going to show milk stains very quickly. You know, because the the way we pump at home might be in a robe or half naked. In the office, we tend to be like half dressed and our clothes are still there. And inevitably, when we're taking out that flange like a milk drip or two are gonna go down. So colors are great for hiding things. But easy access is what you want to go for. And also think about, you know, your bra. There are hands free pumping bras that double as a bra and a pumping bra out there on the market. You know other other women prefer just to strip down, put on the hands free pumping bra, and go for it that way. So again, every mom is different, but comfort and easy access. And you know, make sure to check your buttons that when you exit the room, too many stories there too.
Amanda Gorman:That is the best tip and on that I just want to let you know that this has been extremely helpful for I know all of our moms but also for me because I know our team at Nest Collaborative is working with a lot of working moms. So these tips are gonna go straight back to them as well. So thank you, I know that going back to work myself is definitely a hard transition, both physically and mentally. I think that this really helped clear up a lot of confusion and it's given our listeners a ton of great advice to at least make this return and the pumping and feeding aspect of it, you know a little bit easier. So thank you.
Debi Yadegari:My pleasure. Thank you, Amanda.
Amanda Gorman:No problem. If our listeners do want to get in touch with you or learn more about Villyge, what is the best way to do that?
Debi Yadegari:You can check us out on all the social platforms. Everywhere our handle is"villyge" that spelled V-I-L-L-Y-G-E.
Amanda Gorman:Awesome. Thank you again so much. So mamas and mamas-to-be that is our show for today. As always, we do want to hear from you. So please do drop us a line on our website at www.breastfeedingunplugged.com or send us a message on Facebook or Instagram at Breastfeeding Unplugged. And until next time, I want to wish you all the best on your breastfeeding journey and we look forward to spending some time with you next week. Boo bye. [Outro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Breastfeeding Unplugged.