Breastfeeding Unplugged
Breastfeeding Unplugged
Diversity in Lactation Support
On today’s show, we are talking about an issue that’s been in the spotlight quite a bit lately. You might have heard about the Black Maternal Health Momnibus Act of 2021, a collection of 12 bills introduced by several members of Congress and the Black Maternal Health Caucus to comprehensively address every dimension of the black maternal health crisis in America.
Here’s a scary fact. We live in the richest country on the globe, yet the U.S. has the highest rate of maternal deaths in the world. Black moms are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than their white counterparts. And for black women, access to resources, education, and maternal healthcare isn’t even close to where it should be. Now, of course, this is a breastfeeding podcast, which occupies just one tiny aspect of maternal healthcare. But we wanted to make sure we addressed the issues from our perspective, because even from our little corner of the world, we know that black women are not represented or supported the way that they should be. So let’s find out why.
Our guest today is Harlem-based IBCLC LaShanda Dandrich who knows a thing or two about supporting black families on their breastfeeding journeys. In addition to her work with Nest Collaborative, LaShanda also owns the Uptown Village Cooperative, a maternal health group that provides education and support around gentle birthing practices in Upper Manhattan and the Bronx, the Chocolate Milk Cafe, a lactation support group for African American families, and Lactation Learning Collective, a collective of lactation professionals mentoring aspiring IBCLC’s.
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamas and mamas to be. A podcast dedicated to helping moms navigate their way through the tricky world of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Breastfeeding Unplugged. Hey, mamas and mamas to be. It's great to have you with us on Breastfeeding Unplugged. On today's show, we're talking about an issue that's been in the spotlight quite a bit lately. The black maternal health crisis in America. Here's a scary fact, we live in the richest country on the globe. Yet, the US has the highest rate of maternal deaths in the world. Black moms are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than their white counterparts. And for black women, access to resources, education, and maternal health care isn't even close to where it should be. Now, of course, this is a breastfeeding podcast which occupies just one tiny aspect of maternal health care. But we wanted to make sure we address the issues from our perspective, because even from our little corner of the world, we know that black women are not represented or supported the way they should be. So let's find out why. Our guest today is Harlem based IBCLC Lashonda Dandridge who knows a thing or two or two about supporting black families on their breastfeeding journeys after the birth of her own daughter, Ava in 2009. Her passion for breastfeeding and helping mothers and families in the postpartum period became a full time career. Lashonda trained as a postpartum doula while pursuing her IBCLC credential. And to this day, she loves working with families of all diverse cultural socio economic backgrounds throughout New York City. In addition to her work with Nest Collaborative, Lashonda also owns the Uptown Village Cooperative. A maternal health group, providing education and support around gentle birthing practices in Upper Manhattan and the Bronx. She also does the Chocolate Milk Cafe, a lactation support group for African American families and Lactation Learning Collective, a collective of lactation professionals mentoring aspiring IBCLCs. Lashonda, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.
LaShanda Dandrich:Hi, Amanda, how are you?
Amanda Gorman:I am good. Thank you for asking. Before we get started, I would love to hear just a bit more about you and how you became a lactation consultant. What about becoming a mom ignited this passion to start working in breastfeeding sport?
LaShanda Dandrich:Yeah, so I think like most of us who become moms, it's something that, you know, we really don't think about before, not all of us, some of us, you know, that's the thing. But I think, you know, growing up and you always think like, oh, you know, maybe I'll have a baby one day and being a mom in that way. But we don't think about like, the nitty gritty stuff of it. Right. So when I got pregnant, and it was just natural for me to think about feeding my child from my breasts, that wasn't the thing. I saw people breastfeeding, it was a part of pregnancy for me. So again, it wasn't something that I actually thought that there was this whole world about. So when I had Ava and I was in the hospital and got the help or lack of help, as you know, becoming an IBCLC I reflected back on and then feeding her our feeding journey was our journey, and I loved it. And then talking to people about breastfeeding, right. And just'cause as you're in it, and you you know, just like any thing in your life when you're exposed to it, and you start asking questions about it, and it just started to become like a wow moment. Like, why don't we breastfeed more in this country? And then it was broken down into more so of well, why don't black women breastfeed? At least it was presented to me that way, right? And so then you go back and asking friends, and did you breast- because again, we did not something that we really talked about. So then it was like, okay, did you breastfeed and you didn't breastfeed and why and that started to become, you know, the Horace. It started to become, I started to become more aware of it. And it just led me down this path of not so much wanting to push people like you must breastfeed. But the overall theme that the stories that I was getting, is that, again, no one really talks about it and then there wasn't really any support or education around it. There was no one to really go to and ask is this definitely this is what we do, or don't do. So I just thought, like, I wanted to have people, and much like, my personality and the career I was in before. I just always want people to have the options and educate themselves. Because when you're educated, then you're able to make a decision. If you don't know, then are you really making a decision? Right? So I just got to talking about it. And my whole thing about mo- parenting motherhood parenthood was just have your own story, here's information, and you get to choose and have your own story. That's how we feel empowered as an individual. So that's mainly what I do as a lactation consultant. You know, in many I tell a lot of my clients, like, my goal isn't to have you, quote, unquote, breastfeed, my goal is to provide you evidence based information, and for you to help to get to whatever goal you want to do. And that's just what I felt like I wanted to bring to people, especially peop-, black mothers, in the community.
Amanda Gorman:Absolutely. Education is absolutely powerful. So thank you so much, I enjoyed hearing that story. And it, it certainly is gonna resonate with so many of our listeners out there. Let us jump right in, because our topic today is really hugely important. Both for women of color and all of our listeners. So let's get into it. Black women statistically breastfeed at lower rates than white women, this has been going on for decades. And you touched a little bit upon it. But why does this disparity still exist now?
LaShanda Dandrich:That's a loaded question. Right? We know being in the field, in the medical field, right? And, and now like, and more specifically, like you said, this corner of maternal health, that there are so many layers and levels to just like, putting a baby on the breast. Right. So, the disparity, in general exists, mainly because there's no education for families, but a huge lack of education for medical professional. Right. So like, on the ground, I call it like, boots on the ground, right in the field doing the work right, with families, one on one. But if we had, so if we were able to turn it around, where medical professionals were actually educated, appropriately, correctly on human milk, and how to get the importance or extreme importance of getting human milk to babies, it would help, right that on that level there. And then even in the medical field, you have people who are promoting it and doing it, but they're not promoting it to women of color or black women. And why is that? And that really breaks down to I know, it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. And a lot of people say, like, like you mentioned in the intro that you know, this is a very hot topic. And it seems like calling it racism is a cop out. But it's not. Like when you really look at, you know, if there was any other disease or stuff that there's something going around where you're finding that, hey, a lot of people aren't doing that there are a lot of people who aren't making milk or this especially in a particular community that would spark you to research that and figure out why because we know it's a health benefit. So why isn't it happening in this particular community, right? That just sparked some, a need to figure out why. But when you go down that road and figure out why it's not anything biological, it's not something that's happening in, you know, black bodies, that it's preventing them from making milk and feeding their children. When you look at it, it's the support, and again, the education. And you have this old school mentality that floats around in the medical field. Again, it's not evidence base. It's just been passed down, right through the medical industry, that black women don't breastfeed. But again, nobody's asking, Why don't they breastfeed, right? And again, when we look at that, it's because there's a lack of education, the lack of support, right? So that's just, again, there's so many levels to it, but that's a tip of the iceberg. And really a big, big component, because if that information is getting passed down, again, not evidence base, it's just being passed down through the quote unquote, education that these medical professionals are getting, then that trickles down into you know, who the pediatrician, the, the nurses at the bedside, the you know, the, the OB is like everyone so no one's ever asking you because they truly believe that this is something that you're not going to do you don't do, then you're never going to get the education, you're never going to get the support, and then it doesn't seem like it's something that's really important to those white coats that the community, you know, treasures, those, that information coming from them, they're supposed to be given me the most important information that's good for me and my body and my baby. And if they're not invested in it, so it's just going to trickle into the community, as this is not something that I really need to do or something that doesn't really mean anything versus formula feeding my baby, right? You have that there you have the other level of again, this trickle down of not evidence based information, but within the community. You don't do that. And we don't do that. Right? Because that's what black women used to do for the slave owner's baby. Right. So it became something that that's not, why would you want to do that, if that's the negative connotation that is attached to it, right? And then that plays out through within the community. Right. So again, you're you're having it hit from all different areas, and then we are still with this disparity that, you know, black women aren't breastfeeding. So again, and if that's the main, the main message out there, and you growing up as a child, you know, thinking about having a baby one day, and you're hearing that black woman don't breastfeed, and you're never seeing it, then what is going to be the result of that. So then you have that, you know, again, just kind of trickling down through generations, literally.
Amanda Gorman:Absolutely. Yeah. And I think your your data on I mean, a it is multivariate, right, there's multiple reasons why it's not happening. But as a clinician, you know, I can certainly, you know, your I think you are accurate, and you know, at least you know, I'm a nurse and at nursing school, we did learn about what what we call clinically as implicit bias is, you know, whether knowingly or unknowingly, a clinician is putting their own bias into their practice. And you're absolutely right, the standard of practice shouldn't differ. Race to race. And we know I mean, the research says women will breastfeed more if they get better education prenatally, we know that and that cascade, just like you talked about that cascade needs to start with the provider. And at even in this collaborative, our preliminary research with our very first users was how much does the doctor's word impact their decisions? And overwhelmingly, I think it was 80 plus percent of the women we interviewed said,"Well, yeah, if my doctor told m to do it, I do it." And so we' e really learned how valuable t e provider's word and guidance i. So if, if they're not starti g this cascade for black wome, they're having a profound effe t o
LaShanda Dandrich:How much your word as the, and again, this just goes back to birthing or being in the hospital for anything and hospitals, again, you've worked in hospitals, I've worked in hospitals, you know, like those surveys or questionnaires about patient satisfaction. I really value because, you know, the hospital wants to know and be able to, you know, have a better customer, right? Retain customer, but also because they know that the word that that medical professional says to that patient, you know, if we're talking about birthing people, right? How much of an impact that has going forward. If you talk to anyone you know, I don't know about you, when you tell people what you do, when I tell people what I do, no matter how old they are, I always get them reverting to their birthing experience and their feeding experience. You know, this is grandma's. This is great grandma's like, it's so impactful. And they remember that nurse by the bedside or that doctor that came in what they said, I don't remember my nurses name, but I remember that she really didn't help me. When I was talking about feeding the baby, they were worried about her pooping, and they were shoving a bottle on her mouth. And that's what I remember. Sitting on my bed, shoulder shrunk, you know, shrunken in and a bottle being in my my daughter's mouth. And I had so much milk. And again, this is 12 years later, and that's what I remember. So, yeah, it makes me very, very upset. I mean, I've not before I was a physical therapist assistant, you know, I wasn't a nurse or a doctor, but I would call myself in the medical field right and was at the bedside, and, again, going to physical therapy program. It makes me so angry when I hear the things that medical professionals say. You know, when that pediatrician says like, Oh, I formula fed my baby, you're gonna be okay. That's not evidence based information that you're supposed to provide medical based information, right? Evidence based information. So by saying that is negligence, so what you are doing is medical negligence, when you don't give people the correct information, and especially it's and it's criminal, when you're not giving them the medical information, because you're basing it on what you think they are going to do.
Amanda Gorman:No, I agree. And I think it is it is lack of education on the whole medical community's part as to what the value of lactation period is to, to everyone. So question here, what do you think having a more diverse representation of IBCLCs would and could do for breastfeeding rates?
LaShanda Dandrich:Well, just basically, it's going to increase, right, it's going to increase that that breastfeeding duration, right. So if it's family who didn't even think that this was an option, they may latch the baby, even if it's one, we're going to count it, that's an increase. You know great, if it's a week, or two or two months, or three months, it's an increase. And we have to take the wins, you know, as I tell my new families take the win, and keep building on that and compounding, right, because it's going to grow and it may take a while for us to get there. But if we keep doing it, it's going to grow, right. And then we know, again, back to just the medical industry, in general, that representation means so much when you have someone and this is an all aspects of there, we should have representation of every culture, ability, you know, people's abilities, language, everything in medical in the medical world, because when you see someone who looks like you it is not that we have the same exact experience, you know, just because I'm black doesn't mean I have the same exact experience as somebody I walk into a room with, that is also black. But there's just something about you see, when I walk into a room, as a black lactation consultant, I see the shoulders rest a little bit. I hear in the voice that they're able to express certain things more. And again, it doesn't mean that this person is going to, you know, have cups over runneth and milk is going everywhere, and the baby's going to be great. But it means that it gives them a better chance, right? To achieve their goal. Right. And I don't, again, going back to this, I don't understand why this is such a barrier. Because there are studies that give us this information. We know in America, we love a study. It's like there's studies for this. So when you walk into an institution that doesn't have anyone of any other race, or, you know, ethnicity or language on the staff, it should make you think about why, especially when the community reflects, you know, if that has that so it may really make you think about like, why is this and I know in the in the as a being in the in the business now. It's that you really don't care. You and just say that you really don't care. So what's going to happen is as a lactation consultant, as a doula, my, you know, our friends that are doulas this is what we are educating our family about. Right? See, you know, you know, like Maya Angelou says, like, people tell you who they are the first time and when they tell you who they are, believe them. If you're walking into an institution that is not reflective of what's in the community, you got to take that into account. Do I really want to be birthing there because am I really going to get the help? Again, there's not there may not be a black patient consultant on every shift, right. But you want to know that if you are invested in my house, that you have to make a effort and prove to the community and it is on the medical facilities part to do that. You have to and again, it's just going to make better outcome. It makes better outcomes, and that's what we want. And if you're truly in it, not for the business and in it for health care, then you should want your clients to have better outcome. Absolutely.
Amanda Gorman:Well, I think we're really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here. And I would really love to get some more of these details with you. So mama's we're gonna take a really short break, but we're going to be back with Lashonda in just a minute. So please stick with us. Like many of us I've been trying to use less plastic in our household. I just tried Shambar, a new sulfate free shampoo and conditioner in a bar and it blew me away. Here's what I loved about Shambar. No yucky stuff, no synthetic fragrances or harsh color-fading sulfates. As a mom, it feels good to know that I'm using a safer product, that my hair is healthier and it's saving me more trips to the salon for coloring and more highlights. Each Shambar replaces two 18 ounce single use plastic bottles. It's a family business and for every order, they donate a month's worth of soap to a family in need. What a relevant give back to make sure all families have the resources that they need. A win win. Get your first bar absolutely free when you use the code first free. All one word f-i-r-s-t f-r-e-e on one of their flexible, cancel anytime, super easy subscriptions. Find out more at Shambar.com. Hello and welcome back to Breastfeeding Unplugged. With us today is Lashonda Dandridge, a Harlem based lactation consultant who knows firsthand just how important it is to have diversity in lactation support to give women of color the best chance for breastfeeding success. Lashonda has already shared some amazing information and I'm excited to dive a little deeper. Let me get back to a minute to black moms who are breastfeeding, you know, here now. What, what resources currently exist for black moms who are looking to connect with black IBCLCs?
LaShanda Dandrich:Well, there are. So you mentioned Chocolate Milk cafe, of course, I'm going to shout that out. So, Chocolate Milk Cafe, like you mentioned is a peer to peer led support group. And we are you know, 2020 allowed us to really take the time and become a nonprofit and build out nationally. So we currently are in five states. And hopefully expanding soon when, you know, COVID let's up a little and we're able to have more trainings and open up more chapters. And that is our main goal to be this web of lactation resources for families of the African diaspora. So who identify as black. So that's one and a big thing of that, again, is a peer to peer support group. But we are there are IBCLCs, who are affiliated with the chapter. So that's the big stuff that we're making, so that everyone can look out for that. Follow us on Chocolate Milk cafe. So we want to have families know that you can click in here and though it may, you know, breastfeeding, feeding your child from your body is in, but it's going to be this other web of finding other maternal health, help and all, you know, in all aspects and all by women of color by black women. So there's that there is I mean, just local, again, if you look in your local communities, there are many organizations. Again, we just heard this talking about breastfeeding, that you could find black IBCLCs. Is there, a right now does there exist a national network? No. It's more so if you know of one in your community, you most likely we are connected, we are our own little community. But you know, Facebook, you can go down and look at lactation consultants of color on there. So things like that, but as a national organization just not yet.
Amanda Gorman:Well, I think it's certainly fair to say that, you know, black IBCLCs are underrepresented in the lactation consultant community. Why is there such a low rate of black ibclcs, in your opinion?
LaShanda Dandrich:Again, I think it goes back to what I was talking about, of it not being really looked upon as something in the community that a lot of people do. So again, if you're not doing it, and you know, you have a child and you're not doing it, then people aren't really seeking out lactation consultants, right. Or how like, again, when I before I started, I got into this, I didn't know that there were lactation consultants or it could be something to do by a career. And then there's just a lot of I would say mystique around it, like people automatically think that you have to be a nurse. So if you are a mom that has a baby and you're thinking about this, it's like, oh, I gotta go back to nursing school. So you don't have to be if you're out there listening. You don't have to be in there. And there are what we call pathways. But in those pathways, there are barriers in that as well. Meaning that the first one is that people think that they have to be a nurse again, they don't want to necessarily want to go back to school, it takes a lot of time to do that. So if you're raising a child and you know, things tend to take a backburner, as we know, as parents, right, there's a pathway two that is a educational way to get through where you can go to college, but there are not a lot of those programs. And I think that's the big thing, too. It's like with nursing or even like massage, you can, you know, Google it and look it up. And you can go to a school or program and do that. And then in X amount of time, you become whatever that career is. Lactation, IBCLC is not like that. And then the last pathway pathway three where you have to have the college credits again, and then you have to all the pathways, you have to look for a mentor. Quite honestly, black women who are looking for mentors can't find them, right, because it's, again, a lot of really expensive, because those mentors are charging by the hour, you know, for their time as they should. But it becomes very costly. And then again, if I'm not guaranteed to have a job at the end of this, I have to really think about that and weigh that, right. So in the community. Again, it just kind of something that just wasn't really thought about, I think even for myself, if I didn't have those college credits, I don't know, if I would really be here as an IBCLC, it would have been something that I would've had to really, really think about. Right, and then maybe would have gone a different route to help out with breastfeeding, but I probably wouldn't have. So yeah, that's...
Amanda Gorman:No, that's all good information. And yeah, you know, I think you're right, it is complex. And there are barriers, and I certainly hope that we see kind of some rearrangement of of those pathways to open up the field, you know, in general, but but more so for for more IBCLCs of color, because
LaShanda Dandrich:Again, we yeah, we in the community that are black IBCLCs like one of my. So when I found out what a lactation consultant was and started on that pathway, and again, finding out that not only were there not a lot of black women who quote unquote, or breastfeeding, but there weren't a lot of me right when I walk in a room, I may be the only black IBCLC, or like one or two, you know, and again, we kind of all know each other or know of each other. And it is a very big push. And when I became a black, IBCLC that was my mission too. Is to help create more hence the learning collective I know I'm dropping a lot of my plugs, sorry.
Amanda Gorman:You're doing you're doing a lot of good things. And and I know you're doing them because they need to be done. Someone's someone's got to do the work. So well, I am not happy that we're out of time, because I feel like there's so much more we could dig into. So we'll have to bring you back to do some more digging. But Lashonda I'm really happy that you were able to join us for this episode, because I just love this conversation. I think this conversation needs to be continued and ongoing. And we all have so much to learn. But regarding our chat today, I know this is a super important topic for moms of really every race and we're just thrilled to have someone like you to bring the education and awareness to our audience. So thank you very much for hanging out with us today, even though we did have some tech issues, but we got over. Now, if any moms out there want to get in touch with you or find out more about all that you are doing, what is the best way for them to contact you?
LaShanda Dandrich:I think Chocolate Milk Cafe. So we are ChocolateMilkcafe.com at the website, chocolate-@chocolatemilkcafe on Instagram. So that's a big one. That's my baby. So if they need to contact me through there. Uptown Village is Uptown Village NYC on Instagram. Lactation Learning Collective on Instagram as well especially if you're looking for those hours to help get you to IBCLC. So those are where you can find me.
Amanda Gorman:Fantastic. Well thank you very much again. And to you mom, friends, that is our show for the week. I really hope you've enjoyed the conversation with Lashonda as much as I have and of course learned a lot too. Now don't forget Breastfeeding Unplugged was created for moms just like you so if you want to hear more about a topic or if you have a question, please don't be shy. Message us from Instagram or Facebook@breastfeedingunplugged or visit our website at Breastfeedingunplugged.com. Thank you for spending more time with us and we look forward to hanging out with you next week. Until then it's me Amanda. Buh bye. [Outro]