EPISODE 031 | From Blogger to OT Entrepreneur and Advocate with Jaime Spencer

Meet Jaime Spencer, a school aged occupational therapist, advocate, author, AOTA approved educator, blogger, YouTuber, and founder of missjaimeot.com. 

Jaime has been a Long Island pediatric OT for twenty years. She currently works in a public school in Nassau County with students from Kindergarten to 12th grade. She also has ten years of experience working in a sensory gym part-time with preschool-age children. 

She co-authored The Handwriting Book, The Scissors Skills book and The Toilet Training Book and wrote her own book, FUNctional Visual Perception workbook for kids and Teaching Handwriting in Groups.

During today's episode, we talk about:

• The importance of time management and task delegation as it relates to getting into a state of flow
• Jaime's support team and the significance of building trust in a working relationship
• How the book, "E-Myth" helped Jaime become a better CEO
• Entrepreneurship as a continuous learning process
• The story behind how Jaime started writing blogs
• Jaime's ascension model and an overview of her free and paid resources
• The barriers Jaime ran into on her quest to become a school administrator
• How Jaime uses her voice and social media presence to educate the public and advocate for change in schools
• The revenue generating activities that Jaime does to support all her advocacy efforts
• The importance of work life balance for mental health, emotional health and your relationships 
• Jaime's 10 year goal and vision for the future

And more! 

LINKS:

You can connect with Jaime through her website, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Linkedin and Pinterest.

To join her free webinars, check out her Facebook group: Miss Jaime, O.T.'s Free Webinars!

If you're interested in supporting her advocacy, you may join: USA School-Based OT's Looking for Change

If you enjoyed this episode, please help us reach more OTs by going to Apple Podcasts and leaving a review on the show. 

Transcript

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Melissa [00:00:00 - 00:01:07]

You're listening to the OTs Gone Rogue podcast, episode number 33. On today's episode, I'm joined by Jamie Spencer, a school-aged occupational therapist, advocate, author, AOTA-approved educator, blogger, YouTuber, and founder of missjamieot.com. We talk about her journey as an accidental advocate in school-aged occupational therapy, her growing social media presence, and her experience as a creator of digital OT products. We also touch on the importance of building a team and what it takes to grow as a digital CEO and leader in the therapy space. So without further ado, let's roll out this interview with Miss Jamie. Welcome to the OTs Gone Rogue podcast where we share real stories about real OTs who are choosing to think outside the box and do things differently. I'm your host, Melissa Lapointe. Over the years, I've had the pleasure of connecting with the most remarkable therapists who are finding their way as thought leaders, changemakers, and heart-led entrepreneurs.

Melissa [00:01:08 - 00:01:42]

They've helped to inspire me to think big and dig deep in my own healing journey, and it's now time to bring these conversations to a bigger stage. Together, we're going to share stories about overcoming adversity, finding our people, and taking the road less traveled, even when it feels messy and uncomfortable. Okay, are you ready to join us? This is the OT All right, welcome back everyone to another episode of the OTs Gone Rogue podcast. Oh my goodness, Jamie, I am thrilled to have you here.

Speaker B [00:01:44 - 00:01:46]

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here myself.

Melissa [00:01:48 - 00:02:11]

So Jamie, I've already had you on the call before we hit record and I feel a little bit— I was being a little bit selfish. Asking questions on what should we focus on. And it's really exciting to see all the things that you're doing. But one of the, you know, let's talk about the elephant in the room. When I look at everything that you're doing, have you cloned yourself? What's going on? Fill me in.

Speaker B [00:02:11 - 00:02:11]

No.

Melissa [00:02:11 - 00:02:23]

What's the secret here? Because a lot of it I recognized as, wow, I once thought I may do something like this, but I couldn't keep that many balls in the air. Yeah, is time management your superpower?

Speaker B [00:02:24 - 00:02:56]

Um, I wouldn't say it's my superpower. I have a lot of help. My husband is fantastic and wonderful and so supportive. And I have the best virtual assistant in the whole world. And I do have other people on my team as well. So I definitely try to delegate where I can. But that said, I do have a lot of things going on. So I'll have a lot of balls juggling and You know, my priority is always going to be my family, and then my my real job.

Speaker B [00:02:56 - 00:03:27]

I always say that in quotes. My full-time job. I do work in a school district full-time, so that has to come first, and then I get to all of my other passions. But that said, if you make time for your passion, it doesn't feel like work. So I'm not a big rerun watcher. I'd much rather listen to a podcast about OT or. When I'm driving to and from work, I have my phone conversations with my virtual assistant and I get things accomplished. I just make use of whatever time I have.

Speaker B [00:03:28 - 00:03:42]

I also, I tend to get up early every morning. So I work in a school district, so I have those hours, you know, I have to be there around 8:30 and I'm out at 4. So I get up earlier in the morning and I work for my own business before I go to my real job.

Melissa [00:03:43 - 00:03:44]

Mm, got it.

Speaker B [00:03:44 - 00:03:49]

And that's kind of like my sweet spot where I get things done, I get things accomplished, and I can prioritize.

Melissa [00:03:49 - 00:04:01]

And there's certainly something to be said about when we are working on a project or working on something that we're passionate about, when we're really in that state of flow, productivity levels soar, don't they?

Speaker B [00:04:01 - 00:04:15]

Yes, they really do. And it's, you know what they always say, when you need something done, give it to the busiest person. It's really true because you only have a short amount of time and you sit down and you focus and you get it done or you delegate it.

Melissa [00:04:17 - 00:04:32]

Let's talk a little bit more about delegation. Is that— so, well, actually, let me back up even more. You're working in— so you're doing school-based therapy. That's your primary, your full-time job. So full-time meaning 5 days a week, 4 days a week? What is full-time?

Speaker B [00:04:32 - 00:04:36]

5 days a week, every day, you know, the whole entire school calendar.

Melissa [00:04:36 - 00:04:47]

All right. Now, at this stage, who is on your team? So present day moment, who is on your team in terms of supporting you with your business?

Speaker B [00:04:48 - 00:05:32]

So for my business, I have a— I wouldn't say full-time, but almost full-time. She's a virtual assistant, but she's really more of a project manager now. We did hire another person on the team to be more of a virtual assistant so I could move my beloved Kim to more of a project manager position. She knows all of the hats I'm wearing, and she's been with me long enough to know Sometimes I laugh because I, I say to her, sometimes I feel like the Miranda from The Devil Wears Prada, where I'm like, remember that email I sent you 2 weeks ago about that book? And I was thinking about that post, and I— and she emails me back and she's like, yep, got it done.

Melissa [00:05:33 - 00:05:33]

Amazing.

Speaker B [00:05:33 - 00:05:42]

And it's just— yes, it's like when you have that kind of collaborative work relationship, it really makes life so much easier. So Yeah, she's a unicorn.

Melissa [00:05:42 - 00:05:43]

How did you find her?

Speaker B [00:05:44 - 00:06:26]

I actually found her on Upwork. I was trying out a few different people. I hired her to start, um, to start out. I needed help branding some of my products, and just if I started a project, I wanted someone who could finish it in terms of my products. And I started working with her in that capacity, and just little by little by little, it grew and grew, and now She works for me every day. I, I use Marco Polo, the app where I can speak to her and video myself. And I Marco Polo her in the morning and I'll tell her my thoughts or whatever I'm working on. And I'll follow up, can you do this today? Can you do that? And she'll Marco Polo me back, but I can't read it because I'm at work.

Speaker B [00:06:26 - 00:06:38]

I can't listen to it. But I do it on the way home from work. And I, I listen to what she says and I get back to her. So, you know, she understands my schedule. She's like, I'm sorry, I know it's Tuesday and you're crazy, but Yeah.

Melissa [00:06:38 - 00:06:38]

Yeah.

Speaker B [00:06:38 - 00:06:47]

So, and then I have another person who's doing my customer service. And I also have a girl who does my social media for me.

Melissa [00:06:48 - 00:06:53]

Did you find delegating came easily? Or is that something you really had to work on as you were growing your business?

Speaker B [00:06:54 - 00:07:26]

I think both. I want to delegate. It's just that letting go and recognizing that no one can read your mind. And it's not going to be exactly what you pictured. unless you, you know, specify to the tiniest degree. And if you're going to get that specific, then you might as well have done it yourself. So I think it's important you develop that working relationship with people and that trust, and they get to know your style and your, your wording. And then, you know, you have to review it before you make it yours.

Speaker B [00:07:26 - 00:07:29]

It has to be your voice. Otherwise, it's not you.

Melissa [00:07:29 - 00:07:41]

Yes, it's an ongoing dance, isn't it? Definitely a lot of letting go. It is a lot of letting go. Did you go through or jump through many hurdles in terms of finding your Kim? Is that what we can call her, your Kim?

Speaker B [00:07:42 - 00:08:03]

My beloved Kim. Yes. Um, no, I have to say I got pretty lucky. I did work with a few other people before her here and there, but when I started working with her and she was just so organized and just so exactly what I needed, and it just grew. So I feel that I got very lucky. It's hard to find someone that you have that perfect relationship with.

Melissa [00:08:04 - 00:08:13]

It is, it is, which is why I asked, where did you find her? Because I was anticipating how many messages I was going to get from people saying, where did you find her? We're all looking for the unicorn.

Speaker B [00:08:13 - 00:08:24]

No one can have her, she's mine. Yes, I did find her on Upwork, and I think that you can find a lot of really, really good talent on there, but it is a matter of just finding the right fit.

Melissa [00:08:24 - 00:08:46]

Finding the right fit and You know, finding the right fit. But I also love how you have been training from within, meaning you didn't go out looking for a project manager. You went out looking for a virtual assistant. You worked with her, you developed a working relationship, and then she has grown and evolved into the position of project manager. That you're, you know, training within your team is really, really awesome to see.

Speaker B [00:08:47 - 00:08:56]

Thank you. Yeah, it's been very helpful because she knows all of the hats that I wear. and everything that I'm talking about when I start talking about a different hat.

Melissa [00:08:56 - 00:09:38]

Yes. And some of those different hats, so I jumped right into the CEO piece, you know, that was boom. And again, everyone, I had the opportunity to speak to Jamie a little bit before this recording, and we'll circle back to all the different hats. When would you, so in terms of the CEO role, before we start backing up, do you remember at what moment where you thought, hey, I'm a CEO, you know, I'm an entrepreneur who, like, I'm running my business. I'm not just an accidental entrepreneur. I'm not just a school-age therapist with a hobby. I'm not just doing this as a side gig. This is something that I'm really growing that is having a huge impact, and I am a CEO.

Melissa [00:09:38 - 00:09:44]

Was there a pivotal moment where you recognized that, or did you go through any type of transition when you really—

Speaker B [00:09:45 - 00:09:52]

I don't think I had an aha moment, but I can say I did pivot greatly in my mindset after reading The E-Myth.

Melissa [00:09:53 - 00:09:55]

I just was talking about that book the other day.

Speaker B [00:09:55 - 00:10:10]

Oh, I love that book. It really just made me shift my priorities and understand my role more properly. And it made me be a better CEO. I was already a CEO, but I wasn't being an awesome CEO.

Melissa [00:10:11 - 00:10:45]

One of the things that I loved about that book is it really helped me to see the infrastructure. It really helped me to see business differently and how as an OT, that was the service, that was the programs. It's one piece in this system that I was fulfilling as the OT. And now I'm able to see other people's businesses differently as well. Because again, it's like the Lego manual. In your mind, you just start breaking it down into the different moving parts. It's a book I highly recommend. I will put that in the show notes, everyone, if you haven't read it.

Melissa [00:10:45 - 00:10:53]

Now, I know not everyone's a huge fan. I've talked to some people who don't love it. Regardless, I think it's a great book to help you see business differently.

Speaker B [00:10:54 - 00:10:59]

And it's not— I like a book that you can get through. It's not—

Melissa [00:10:59 - 00:10:59]

Yeah.

Speaker B [00:10:59 - 00:11:36]

Super wordy or over your head. He speaks in a manner that is like telling you a story and just telling you how it is, and it's just very understandable. And I think too, if you like shows like Shark Tank or, um, Bar Rescue or any of those types of shows where you're seeing them go in and fix a business and, and pull out all the bad parts of the business. Once you read that book, you're understanding that, oh, like there's a lot of that going on. There's a lot of people teaching other people how to run their business properly. And it's really important, otherwise you're not going to succeed.

Melissa [00:11:37 - 00:12:08]

And it's something that is ongoing. Once we step into, I think I was a little naive when I first stepped into entrepreneurship and thought, okay, what are the courses or what are the programs? What are the community features? What do I need to know to learn how to run my business? You know, when's the graduation date? What's the, like, what's the 6-month program I have to take? And it's ongoing, you know, as long as I live and breathe, I will be learning about entrepreneurship. And it's something that doesn't go away. I didn't realize that in the beginning that there was no graduation date.

Speaker B [00:12:09 - 00:12:35]

I can agree with that. Definitely. You're constantly learning new skills. And it's funny because in the beginning, you know, you do like you write a blog post and you think, woohoo, I've made it. And then You know, nowadays you look back at something you did 5 years ago and you're like, oh my goodness, I didn't know anything. I know, but that's— it's almost good. You know, you just keep, keep building up your skills, keep learning, keep improving. And that's, that's the journey.

Melissa [00:12:36 - 00:13:20]

It is, it is definitely the journey. And that would be perhaps one of the more in-your-face challenges of working in the online space is that sometimes some of the ways that you have grown or you've evolved, you literally see because a video pops up in your memory or in your Facebook memory, or there's something that's been published, that's been put out there that you then see and, oh wow, did I really write that? Did I really record that? I know I found one of my very first videos that I had recorded for anyone else to see ever, and I shared it with my coaching program. I said, okay, you guys, this is where I started. It's ego bruising.

Speaker B [00:13:21 - 00:13:24]

It is, but it's also realistic.

Melissa [00:13:24 - 00:13:25]

Yes.

Speaker B [00:13:25 - 00:13:27]

And it's important to, to be real.

Melissa [00:13:28 - 00:13:47]

Yeah. Let's circle back to that blog. So because we jumped right in entrepreneurship, CEO, and that's not where you got started. So now let's go back to the beginning. You were working as a school-age therapist, feeling a little bit burnt out and developed a love for blogging. So can you share a little bit more of that story?

Speaker B [00:13:48 - 00:14:39]

Yes, so exactly what you said. I was really stressed out. I was working full-time as a school-based OT, and I also work after school at a sensory gym. And I was finding myself— I felt like a hamster on a wheel because the way that the legislation is set up in New York and in most other states, occupational and physical therapists are not treated equally to other school professionals. So I mean teachers, psychologists, social workers, they're all in a different union in my school district and in most school districts in New York. So this affected my pay very much, and I only had 10 steps. So when you start at your job, they put you on step 1 or 2, and each year you go up a step. But the teachers also have the opportunity to go over a step if they get more education.

Speaker B [00:14:40 - 00:15:10]

And that is not offered to the occupational therapists in my school district and in many other school districts. It's not just mine. So I was feeling, like I said, very frustrated. I felt like I'm working all the time. I was, you know, young. I had bought my own condo and I was struggling to get ahead. I felt like I wanted to have money to live life as well as be secure and build— be building toward my future. So what I decided to do was to start a blog.

Speaker B [00:15:10 - 00:16:07]

I was hoping I could get some private clients. My best friend was a math tutor at the time, and she was making tons of money tutoring for SATs and things like that. And I was like, oh, that's perfect, but where do I find parents who want to do private OT? So I thought if I have a Facebook page and maybe a website or a blog, I could get some private clients. And I started off doing that, and it went well. I was able to quit my position at the sensory clinic, and I was just working full-time at my school job and then doing the private clients. But it like fell in my lap that the blogging ended up being more profitable than the private clients. And like you always say, I realized here I am trading an hour for an hour's worth of money when I could be trading an hour's worth of work for multiple products and multiple uses. So I just kind of ended up spiraling into this school-based occupational therapy website and blog.

Speaker B [00:16:07 - 00:16:56]

I love teaching people how to help their kids, so it's a real passion of mine. And I felt discouraged and stagnant because I couldn't advance at school where I worked. I wanted to be— I actually, when I first started there, they put me in an administrative position as a leave replacement. I really liked it. I had a I'm a big idea factory, so I love to problem solve and come up with different unique ways to help people. And I wanted to get my master's in school administration, but when I started to do the research, I found out that occupational physical therapists are not allowed to take the coursework to become a school administrator. So some OTs may say, oh well, who cares, I don't want to be an administrator. But think about how much better your job would be if your boss Oh my goodness, yes.

Speaker B [00:16:57 - 00:17:36]

I mean, there'd be so many changes that would benefit the children, of course, as well as the staff. And of course, then again, OTs and PTs. I mean, it's just not right that very often we're not treated equally. We don't have proper working spaces, we don't have equal pensions, we don't have the same continuing education increments. It's just, it's, it's not right. It's shameful, really, and it needs to change. So when I found out I couldn't get my master's in school administration, I got it in special education instead. And then I just kind of started concentrating on my website and my blog and just setting my own future up for success.

Speaker B [00:17:38 - 00:17:40]

So, you know, yeah, that was where I had to go.

Melissa [00:17:41 - 00:18:16]

Okay. Where do I want to go with this? Jamie, if I were to ask you to describe your ascension model, so the different way that people can work with you in terms of what you're offering. Let's start with OTs. So if OTs are listening to this, what are some services or programs that are specific to OTs? And so making sure we're on the same page in terms of an ascension model, so what you are offering for free, how you're doing, you know, in terms of education, and then other ways that people can access your resources, whether it's paid or unpaid.

Speaker B [00:18:17 - 00:18:49]

Okay, so in terms of my freebies, I have a lot of handouts and things that I've created over the years that I branded as Miss Jamie OT products because I didn't want these stressed out, overworked therapists wasting time— not wasting time, but spending time, precious time— creating these resources when I already have. So I wanted to be able to give those handouts, those go-to handouts, you know, here are some tips for fine motor strengthening. Here's how you can help your child improve their posture.

Melissa [00:18:49 - 00:18:51]

Things that we've all created at some point.

Speaker B [00:18:52 - 00:18:52]

Exactly.

Melissa [00:18:53 - 00:19:01]

But it's stuff that how many of us have Googled, looked for the right images, spent hours formatting. I've worked in school-age therapy. I've done this.

Speaker B [00:19:03 - 00:19:54]

Yes. So I have a lot of one-page handouts that are awesome to just set, put in the child's, you know, communication notebook when you're talking about, here are some suggestions for home, boop, done. As well as some mini booklets. I have mini booklets about RTI and about sensory processing and about handwriting. And I have some— now I have some AOTA-approved courses. I've done a course called Vision 101, which is introducing school-based occupational therapy practitioners to working on oculomotor skills within the school setting, because it's another passion of mine to educate people about the full scope of practice for OT. We are not just handwriting teachers and we are not just sensory and we know that, but a lot of people in the school setting don't. And again, I'll go back to the fact that I think that's because there are no OTs and PTs who are administrators.

Speaker B [00:19:54 - 00:20:03]

If they're not at the administrative table educating their administrative peers, then it's very hard to infuse that knowledge into the higher-ups.

Melissa [00:20:04 - 00:20:30]

Now that you have your master's, what— so how What are your ideas for— like, it sounds like that's something you're very passionate about in terms of getting at that higher level where decisions are often made, where funding is determined. What are some things that you've been doing to do that? Because your master's in school administration didn't work, but your master's in special ed did. Did that open up some doors for you?

Speaker B [00:20:30 - 00:20:31]

No.

Melissa [00:20:32 - 00:20:32]

No.

Speaker B [00:20:33 - 00:21:11]

Isn't that terrible? It didn't, um, because the choice was if I wanted to become a school administrator, I would have to leave the field of OT and teach for 3 years, and then I would be allowed. And I didn't want to do that. I am an OT true and true, and I think OT is awesome, and I refused. I just thought it was the silliest thing ever. No, I'm not leaving OT. I got my master's in, in special ed, but I didn't do that portion where I had to student teach. Because I never wanted to leave the profession. And I just think that it's a little crazy that there's no pathway for us to become leaders.

Speaker B [00:21:11 - 00:22:29]

So what ended up happening for me, and again, it's like one of those things where it just falls in your lap and your journey twists and turns and you end up going down a path you didn't expect. But as I became more, more well known as a school-based occupational therapy blogger, and I have a lot of Facebook videos as well. People started knowing who I was, and I realized now I can use this voice for my other passion that I've kind of been letting lay low. You know, I'm— I've always been very upset and frustrated that OTs are stagnant in the school setting and that we can't be leaders where— I hate to say it, but there's a stigma of inferiority. And because we're not included in everything, it's just— it's hurtful to us and the whole school community. So I've decided to use my voice and my social media following to also kind of be multi-passionate and not just helping therapists and teaching parents how to help their kids, but also teaching OTs how to advocate for themselves and educating OTs about these legislative barriers because a lot of OTs don't even know that we're in this position. So I've been advocating about it now for many years and I've been speaking about it nationally. I've spoken at multiple AOTA conferences.

Speaker B [00:22:29 - 00:22:59]

Actually, my, my co-leaders that work on this with me, we were the keynote speakers at the Child and Youth Conference for AOTA in December. So it's gaining a lot of traction. We've been meeting with AOTA again and again. I'm working very closely with the New York State Occupational Therapy Association to try to change this legislation. It's a lot of work to advocate for change, and it starts with educating the general public. So that's where my focus is now.

Melissa [00:22:59 - 00:23:09]

Okay. Touching on that, so in terms of all the time that is required for advocating for change, you're still coming back to working full-time.

Speaker B [00:23:09 - 00:23:09]

Yes.

Melissa [00:23:10 - 00:23:13]

And running a business with a team.

Speaker B [00:23:13 - 00:23:13]

Yes.

Melissa [00:23:14 - 00:23:56]

So how do you prioritize? I love, first of all, that There are little things that may seem challenging, but I think were a blessing in disguise. One of them being you have to message your assistant in the morning and then you don't have that ongoing communication. I love that because that is making you be more concise, intentional with what you're saying, and also not able to necessarily micromanage. You have to let go. You have to give them enough to really do something during the day when they can't reach you. So I bet that's forced you to be a better CEO, to be a better leader. So I love that. Is that something you've noticed?

Speaker B [00:23:57 - 00:24:27]

Yes, I agree with you. But I also think it's made me a better school OT. Because now that I'm actually in the school treating, I treat 2 days a week, and then the other 3 days a week I do assistive technology. And I'm the only district-employed OT for my whole district. So there's 10 buildings. So I end up doing a lot of— it's really kind of administrative work and managerial work. But when I'm in the school setting, I'm— it's the idea factory. It's like pow, pow, pow.

Speaker B [00:24:28 - 00:25:01]

I should use this to teach parents. I should make a blog post about that. I should, you know, or little things like today I have an occupational therapy fieldwork student. We were working with children and we were doing Zoom ball. You know, and one of the kids, he kept dropping the Zoom ball, kept dropping the Zoom ball. And it was just a simple thing like, oh, let me grab the foam, you know, expanders to put on the handle so that he can hold it better. And the student was like, gosh, I never would have thought of that. And I'm like, but you will.

Speaker B [00:25:01 - 00:25:18]

Your brain is going to continue to get that awesome OT creativity juice that is just so uniquely us. And when I'm working with my kids, I'm 100% there because I have to be. That's what they deserve. And it only helps me do better in my business.

Melissa [00:25:19 - 00:25:47]

Did you find— so in terms of delegating and in terms of— that's something as a business owner, I've really had to lean into performance, looking at productivity levels. And when I came from a 9-to-5 nonprofit background, it was very different. There were admin tasks. There were things you had to do. You were there 8:30 to 4:30. Monday to Friday, everyone had to pitch in. It doesn't matter where you are in the hierarchy. It doesn't matter if you're a therapist or if you're an assistant.

Melissa [00:25:48 - 00:26:36]

The first Friday of every month, we would do audits on files or we would clean out the storage room or we— there were always things that we had to do. And as an entrepreneur, really started to— not that I ever came close to the 4-hour workweek, but again, ways we can improve efficiency. Did you find or do you find that some of the ideas you may have for improving efficiency It doesn't always work at an organizational level. You know, there may be extra hoops to jump through or things that you would in your business happily delegate to your virtual assistant, but in the school district, because of contracts, because of employment, you have to do that. Did you— do you find you're running into that at all? And if you are, how do you not lose your mind? Because I was starting to lose my mind, like, this isn't what I should be doing. So can you speak to that for a moment?

Speaker B [00:26:38 - 00:27:37]

Yes. Well, you know, the school-based full-time position is one hat, and then the CEO is another hat. At the school-based OT, again, being a business owner now, I'm having that mindset. So I'm improving my efficiency at school as well. I can only look at things and be like, why have I been doing this this way for all these— all this time? Like, I've recently started putting all of our district forms and everything online and This way, when the, you know, because again, I'm the only person for 10 buildings, when the psychologist fills it out, I do, I get an email now, and it's so much better than waiting for the interoffice and saying I never got it. You know, those kind of, that kind of mindset, a systems mindset, I'm definitely implementing into my school-based practice. At the CEO level, yes, my ideas are not really generally to improve efficiency. there are always new product ideas, new ways to help people, new ideas to teach people things.

Speaker B [00:27:38 - 00:28:06]

So that's where I get caught up. And that's where Kim is my, my unicorn, because she's like, okay, we have a lot of things in the idea vault. Let's finish the couple that we were doing. And that's where we'll start to delegate, like which ones can we delegate to get completed. And, but we have slowly but surely been developing better systems in terms of improving our efficiency. We've been recording our trainings so that we don't have to start fresh with a new person every time. Yeah, that's a big one. It is.

Speaker B [00:28:06 - 00:28:37]

That is such a big one. We've also started, we have a huge, I mean, 200-page Miss Jamie OT manual where everything is in that manual. So it's always like, look in the manual. And Kim keeps it nice and neat and beautiful. And I actually hate to go in there because I know I'm going to just drop something in and it's going to be the wrong font and the wrong text. But I just go in and I write something and I come back 2 weeks later and it's the right— it's in my brand colors. And it's just—

Melissa [00:28:37 - 00:28:44]

You better guard Kim because there are going to be people listening to this that are like, I'm going to find a way. I need her.

Speaker B [00:28:44 - 00:28:47]

It's so true. She's, she's just excellent.

Melissa [00:28:48 - 00:29:22]

In terms of— okay, so I'm going to circle back. I want people to still have a different idea. So coming back to this ascension model, Looking at— let's look at different resources and educational materials because we've touched on that a couple of times, but I want people to have a really clear understanding of the different resources that they can access or that you have created. So I know we've mentioned webinars. You have a series of posters which you didn't talk a lot about. Maybe you can explain that right now.

Speaker B [00:29:22 - 00:30:05]

Sure. So one of my big passions is educating the general public about what occupational therapy really is. Very often we're kind of stuck in that, in between a rock and a hard place where everybody thinks we're handwriting and/or sensory. And it's my passion to educate not just parents but also the other staff members about what we do. So I've created a few series of posters that really explain what occupational therapy work on. My favorite It's a freebie. I've given it because I just want everybody to have it and to distribute it so that more and more people are learning what school-based OTs really can do. But it's just a one-page handout of all of the different things that OTs work on.

Speaker B [00:30:05 - 00:30:33]

So it's not just handwriting. We also work on self-care skills. We teach executive functioning. We work on oral motor skills, oculomotor skills. And then I actually have a poster that goes with each one of those categories. And my thought process being, use this to decorate your OT room or use this to decorate the bulletin board outside your OT room. That's what I do. And I change it every year because I want the staff to read it and to understand, oh, Jamie isn't just handwriting.

Speaker B [00:30:34 - 00:31:25]

She, you know, my child's struggling with executive functioning, maybe I should ask Jamie. And that's, that's really how I've been able to become a valued member of the team because I did those types of things. So I developed that resource. So that other school-based therapists could do the same. And I do have a lot of free resources because I want to make life easier for the stressed-out school-based OTs, you know, of course, and as well as advocating for our profession. So I have handouts about hand strengthening, I have handouts about visual perception, red flags for visual perception, and strategies to improve the different areas of visual perception. I have free webinars that I give out. I do free webinars randomly throughout the year just to, again, give out that free information to parents, teachers, as well as paid webinars that are AOTA approved.

Melissa [00:31:26 - 00:31:38]

Okay, so that was my next question. Tell me more about the revenue-generating activities. You know, what is supporting all of this amazing— because it is, it's amazing stuff, it's great, but someone has to pay for it.

Speaker B [00:31:39 - 00:31:40]

Yes. Right? Like, that's—

Melissa [00:31:41 - 00:31:43]

yeah. So tell us more about the, the revenue streams.

Speaker B [00:31:44 - 00:32:39]

So as I said, I do have a lot of freebies. And in my nurture sequence, when I introduce myself, I do talk about my passion for occupational therapy and also the advocacy piece, because I do think that that sets me apart a little bit from the other occupational and physical therapy bloggers, that not only am I creating products to help you, but it's also to better our profession. I'm really passionate that we have to leave our profession in a better place, not only for the community and the children but for the future OTs. So I think that that helps me in terms of keeping my followers. Maybe they came on because they wanted a freebie about hand strengthening, but then when they read the Nurture Sequence and I give out a lot more products and a lot more resources, they tend to stick with me a little bit. And so then I do have a lot of paid products as well. I have a handwriting webinar. I have handwriting jams that you can use for virtual therapy.

Speaker B [00:32:39 - 00:33:06]

I have a Vision 101 course, which is probably my biggest revenue generator at this point. It's an AOTA-approved course. I also do NYSOTA-approved courses to generate revenue. I feel that my live presentations are, are my biggest generators because I love to public speak, I love to teach, and I just find that they're very well attended. So Those are probably my best generating products.

Melissa [00:33:07 - 00:33:13]

Your lives, meaning so a speaking fee? Because I'm assuming you do live, I'm assuming you do paid as well as free.

Speaker B [00:33:14 - 00:33:59]

So when I do, I don't charge a speaking fee because I really don't speak for other people. I'll only speak for my own business. But I do it in my, in my domain, in my space. And I'll let people sign up and register and tell them, okay, it's going to be this night. And I will do it for free. And generally, if they want CEUs, or if they want to offer the products that I might mention or lead people toward, then that's where the revenue is generated. But there's almost always a free version of it just for the people like the new grads who I like— again, going back to when I was a really stressed out OT making no money and trying to pay my bills, I didn't have the money to pay for all that continuing education, but I wanted to learn and I wanted to help my kids. So I do make sure that I have something for everyone.

Melissa [00:34:00 - 00:34:07]

And we can do that. You know, that's something when I first was getting started, wanted to do all the things, all the ideas, I still want to.

Speaker B [00:34:08 - 00:34:08]

Me too.

Melissa [00:34:08 - 00:34:37]

But now I've learned, oh, you know, I can do a few things really well, or I can do a lot of things not so well. And really understanding, you know, the different pieces, but that there needs to be a revenue stream. And that was hard for me to figure out. It took me a long time to figure that out. You know, you are only as effective, you know, you can have a big community, impact when you're generating that revenue stream to support all the different ways that you can give back.

Speaker B [00:34:37 - 00:34:38]

Right.

Melissa [00:34:38 - 00:35:15]

To support— I remember my first retreat, I really wanted to give scholarships and I did give scholarships at a loss. You know, I ended up paying for part of that retreat out of pocket because we didn't hit the numbers and I really wanted to give back in so many ways and I did. I literally, you know, I was sponsoring people essentially. So yeah, those are some lessons that definitely It's hard when we're really passionate about change. It's hard when we really, when we see the vision and not many other people can necessarily see that vision and then we have to guide them there through our actions. It's not for the faint of heart.

Speaker B [00:35:15 - 00:35:47]

No, and it can be exhausting too. But I agree with you about giving back. It's such an important part and I think it's part of who OTs are. You know, we're healthcare workers, we're nurturers, And we want to give back, which is why we went into the profession. I actually do offer scholarships as well for my Vision 101 course, but it doesn't cost me anything because the course is running either way. So I felt really, really good about that. And it's a lot of— it's funny, but it's a lot of work to offer the scholarships because it just is.

Melissa [00:35:48 - 00:35:50]

Yes, there are logistics to keep track of.

Speaker B [00:35:50 - 00:36:11]

But then when you read the applications and you receive the thank-yous when you let them know that they won. It's just, it makes my heart happy that I helped someone who needed this so badly. And, you know, I always say, are you, you know, these scholarships are for people who are financially, you know, what's the word I want to say?

Melissa [00:36:12 - 00:36:13]

Strapped.

Speaker B [00:36:13 - 00:36:36]

Financially strapped. Yeah, the scholarships are for those who are financially strapped. It's not just, you know, I'm a great OT, I deserve a free course. It's because you need CEUs and you're really asking for this because you need it. And again, the applications that you get, it just is very heartwarming and it makes you feel good inside. So that's a little selfish of me actually, but I'm gonna still do it.

Melissa [00:36:37 - 00:37:17]

I think we're allowed to be a little bit selfish. My goodness. In this line of work that you've been doing, because you are, you know, wearing all the different hats, doing all the different things, and really coming at it from that heart-led work. Have you hit a spot, you know, it sounds like, again, I hate saying this word balance because it's such a myth, but are you, did the pendulum swing too far? Like, did you learn the hard way about overgiving, about overhelping, about spreading yourself too thin and you had to come back and recalibrate? Or is that something that you feel you've always, done a pretty good job of managing?

Speaker B [00:37:18 - 00:37:58]

No, I think the pendulum swings often. And, you know, I have to check myself and say, okay, you've been a little crazy. Take a step back, take a few days off, just, you know, sleep later, go to bed earlier, just hang out with your family. I, you know, and then you have those crazy weeks where there's no choice, you have to do this interview, or you have to you know, get your launch ready. But I do definitely keep the work-life balance in mind. It's really important for your mental health, your emotional health, your relationships. So I think the pendulum's constantly going back and forth, to be honest. I'm always like, okay, this week's crazy.

Speaker B [00:37:58 - 00:38:02]

Next week I have to calm down. I don't always do it, but I try.

Melissa [00:38:03 - 00:38:25]

Well, and that's one of the things that I love about the online space. You know, I love, and you could argue in terms of the school seasons as well, there's a lot. I love the, I'm not The monotonous Monday to Friday status quo. Oh my goodness, I love the rhythm, I love the cycles, and you certainly get that in the school district as well as working in the online space.

Speaker B [00:38:26 - 00:38:28]

100%, I totally agree.

Melissa [00:38:29 - 00:38:48]

Do you have anyone that will rein you in, that recognizes when you're getting too busy or spread too thin? Is that something, someone in your family or someone on your team, do they recognize that, or are you the one who recognizes, wow, I've had my foot on the gas for quite some time, It's time to look at shifting gears.

Speaker B [00:38:48 - 00:39:15]

No, it's probably actually one of my best friends who I speak to on Marco Polo every day. Also, we check each other a lot and we'll be like, you need to give yourself a break, or you need to give yourself a little space. You're being really hard on yourself. You did this, this, this, and this, you know, and we do that for each other. So yes, I'm— I do have that. My husband will also tell me like, I think, you know, why don't you take it a little easy this week? It's been— you've been really killing yourself. And, you know, I say, okay.

Melissa [00:39:16 - 00:39:21]

Yeah. With your friend who you have on Marco Polo, are they an entrepreneur and are they an OT?

Speaker B [00:39:22 - 00:39:41]

They are not an OT. She is an aspiring entrepreneur. She's in the process of putting her first course together, and she's in the corporate space and very unhappy about it. But she very much understands entrepreneurship, so she often gives me guidance and advice, and I think she'll be an awesome entrepreneur when she jumps ship from her corporate job.

Melissa [00:39:43 - 00:39:43]

Great stuff.

Speaker B [00:39:44 - 00:39:44]

Yes.

Melissa [00:39:45 - 00:39:56]

Jamie, where do you see yourself? So when we look at a 10-year goal, where do you see yourself? That's a big question for— and I didn't prep you for that at all. I just pulled that one out.

Speaker B [00:39:57 - 00:40:32]

You know what? I'm really glad you said 10 years and not 5, because in 10 years, I think I'll probably be retiring, to be honest, from my full-time job. I've been there 20 years already. And, you know, depending on what the regulations are at the time, I think I'll probably retire from my full-time job so that I can concentrate on all my other passions. I do see myself maybe teaching, maybe getting my doctorate. I'm not sure. I'm not exactly sure, but I love to learn and I really do love business. So I would love to learn more about business. Maybe I would want to get my MBA.

Speaker B [00:40:32 - 00:40:50]

I'm not sure. In 10 years, my daughter will be 11. So that's a whole different situation than what I'm in now where she's 1 and a half and running around and, you know, I need to really guard my time carefully with her. So I definitely see a change headed my way for sure.

Melissa [00:40:51 - 00:41:11]

Yes, absolutely. What— and it's, you know, we could speak— oh my goodness, that's a whole episode in and of itself in terms of the mompreneur. In terms of balancing motherhood and all the different stages and transitions we go through while building and running a business. It's something else, isn't it?

Speaker B [00:41:12 - 00:41:24]

It is. It's a lot. I'm very blessed to have a really, really good baby and just one. And also, as I said, a very supportive husband. He helps me when I need the help. So it's great.

Melissa [00:41:24 - 00:41:42]

Yeah, makes such the world of difference. Okay. As we start to wrap this up, we'll take the long way to wrapping this up. What are— again, when I look at— if people could hear me, I have my paper out, but I was actually drawing, I was sketching an ascension model.

Speaker B [00:41:42 - 00:41:42]

Okay.

Melissa [00:41:42 - 00:42:03]

I want to have a visual of how she's working with people. So, you have your online course. Can people get more access to you than an online course? So, I'm thinking specifically of therapists. Do you do group or one-on-one mentoring or coaching? Do you work with anyone in a more intense capacity, or is that just not— do you just not have capacity for that, or perhaps interest in that right now?

Speaker B [00:42:03 - 00:43:06]

I do have interest in it, but I don't have the capacity for it. I do have my Miss Jamie OT Facebook page where I'll post things and people will ask me questions. When it comes to mentorship, one thing that we do offer with our Vision 101 course is a mentorship for those, for that cohort. So I guess in that sense, I do get to have a little bit of a mentorship, but it's not an ongoing coaching program where we meet every Tuesday or anything like that. Anyone who purchases the course, they're automatically entered into that cohort, and we don't open up the course again for 6 months. So we go through the 6 months with that group of customers, I should say, or clients, but it's all therapists who are taking our course and learning the different steps. And what we do, me and my partner who did the course with me, Robert Constantine, we go on and we do a lot of fun things to get them more engaged. So we'll, you know, after they take Module 4 and they're learning about ocular motor activities, we challenge them to show us 3 ocular motor activities that you came up with after you watched this module, and you have to post a video.

Speaker B [00:43:06 - 00:43:09]

So everybody's giving each other different ideas and trying it.

Melissa [00:43:09 - 00:43:11]

Multisensory learning. I like it.

Speaker B [00:43:12 - 00:43:45]

Yeah. Yeah, multisensory for sure. But also in that group, they can ask questions and either myself, if it's a school-based question, or Robert, if it's more of an ophthalmology question, will answer based on whatever the therapist is asking. So they do have that ongoing mentorship just so that they really do feel comfortable with the new skills they've learned. We want to make sure that they're not just taking the course and then that's it. We want to make sure that they're taking the course, Using their skills and then coming back to us if they have questions about how to use the skills.

Melissa [00:43:46 - 00:44:41]

Okay. I love your— and for those of you who are listening who may not be familiar with this concept, ascension model. So essentially, you know, I've explained this on the podcast a couple of times, but if you imagine a triangle and at the base of the triangle is generally your low ticket or your free offers where people have the most access to you. And as you work up the ascension model and you don't want a lot of steps in the ascension model because each step requires a system, a process, a tool, right? Like it gets quite complicated quite quickly in the online space with all the moving parts. But as we're working up this ascension model, the concept or idea is that the price point is going up a little bit and then access. So in Jamie's case, access to Jamie, you know, fewer and fewer people would have access to her the higher up she goes. And we've had different people talk about their ascension models where some ascension models have a narrow base. My ascension model is a very narrow base, for example.

Melissa [00:44:41 - 00:45:27]

I have a small audience, a lot of free stuff, and we don't, the way we have 3, 4 steps with a higher price point and access to me at the top. Whereas the ascension model you're describing with your advocacy work, with your training, a very wide base. And not just a wide base, but a wide, Next step, third step, you know, that you're really targeting a lot of people. And it's not that one is wrong or right. It's different visions, different ideas of showing up. And I love that we can give different examples to people in different niches of how we can build these ascension models. And yours does a beautiful job of really encompassing leadership and advocacy while still generating revenue, right?

Speaker B [00:45:27 - 00:45:35]

Yeah. The multi-passionate therapist. I've gotta hit all those, things that I love to teach about, so. Yeah.

Melissa [00:45:36 - 00:46:10]

What would be, so if we were to think, okay, in order for you to be juggling all of these balls, you know, and we can talk about some of them are glass we can't let go of, some of them are plastic and we can let them drop and pick them up again, but the reality is you still can't have everything. So what would be, you know, what are some things that you've had to let go of that because you can't do it all, so what are some things that you've let go of that maybe you'll swing back to pick up someday Or no, that's a different phase or transition and you're okay saying goodbye to that or closing that chapter.

Speaker B [00:46:11 - 00:46:59]

I love that analogy of some of the balls are glass and some are plastic. That's such a good way to say it. I was actually speaking to my, my friend that I was talking about a minute ago, or, and I've said to her, I feel like I'm juggling so many balls lately that I'm going to have a Marcia Brady moment and get smashed in the face with with a ball because it's— there's just so much going on at this point. I would say things that I have to let go would be creating new freebies, creating new opt-ins, and just reusing the ones that I have, repurposing the material that I've already done. That's the problem with being an idea factory is that I'm always coming up with new, new, new, and it's like I don't have time. So those are all in the vault. Those would be my plastic balls. They go in the vault on the Trello board for things to do when there's time.

Speaker B [00:47:00 - 00:47:22]

And then I have my main focuses, which of course are going to be my family and my full-time job, and then my business and my revenue stream and my advocacy. That's really up there, I have to say. I'm very involved with my state organization, and I'm actually on the state occupational therapy board for New York State. So it's time-consuming. It definitely is.

Melissa [00:47:24 - 00:47:55]

Time-consuming, but again, when we can see how this is helping us, you know, we have a finite amount of time on this, you know, in this world, and we can do with it as we choose. And for some of us, you know, it's motivated to leave the world a little bit differently than how we found it and to really leave that legacy. So lots of different balls, but that can be, you know, such a source of well-being in many ways. Isn't it? You know, when we have these outlets, I know for myself, I'm speaking from experience.

Speaker B [00:47:55 - 00:47:56]

It's fulfilling.

Melissa [00:47:56 - 00:48:06]

Yeah, so fulfilling, so fulfilling. And that when people say you have a lot of things going on, I laugh. Yeah, I do. I've always had a lot of things going on. That's just how I roll.

Speaker B [00:48:07 - 00:48:08]

I feel the same way.

Melissa [00:48:08 - 00:48:22]

Yeah, but I appreciate my quiet time and, you know, I appreciate it when I'm doing it because, yeah, it's like, okay, this is intentional rest. Yeah, juggling lots though.

Speaker B [00:48:23 - 00:48:25]

Intentional rest, it needs to go on the calendar.

Melissa [00:48:26 - 00:48:41]

It does, it does, it does. This was a— this has been a big theme for me the last month is really building in intentional rest and yeah, bringing in those cycles. It's been something else, something we can all work on.

Speaker B [00:48:41 - 00:48:42]

Definitely.

Melissa [00:48:42 - 00:48:56]

Jamie, as we wrap up, so where can people find you? You hang out in a few different places. I will be sure to link everything up in the show notes. So give us an idea of If people are already going to Google and searching, what can they look for?

Speaker B [00:48:56 - 00:49:36]

They can look for my website, missjamieot.com. I also have a Facebook page, Miss Jamie OT, and an Instagram. The number one place I would recommend to go would be Miss Jamie OT's Free Webinars, which is on Facebook. If you join that group, then you're automatically in there and you'll know, you'll be alerted when I have free Facebook coming, you know, Facebook webinars coming out and things like that. If you're interested in the advocacy piece, definitely, definitely join the Facebook group USA School-Based OTs Looking for Change. That is where we are really trying to gather all of our people and educate and advocate and build momentum for this coalition.

Melissa [00:49:38 - 00:49:54]

This is really exciting. And again, you know, to see the different ways that you're influencing change and that you're stepping out as A trailblazer and a visionary. This is really exciting, and thank you for joining me on this podcast.

Speaker B [00:49:55 - 00:50:00]

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you letting me spread my message.

Melissa [00:50:00 - 00:50:24]

Yeah, my pleasure. That is what this platform is for, really highlighting OTs who are doing things differently. And, you know, we need more trailblazers. We need more people making those blueprints because it's not easy work, and we do have to make Mistakes and often make mistakes on a public stage. So it's not stuff that everyone's willing to do. So thank you for joining me on this stage where—

Speaker B [00:50:24 - 00:50:24]

You're very welcome.

Melissa [00:50:25 - 00:50:33]

Yeah, doing things, doing things differently. But sometimes it's, sometimes a little messy, sometimes a little chaotic, but we can get back to doing what we love.

Speaker B [00:50:33 - 00:50:36]

Yep. You take your passion and do what feels right.

Melissa [00:50:38 - 00:50:47]

All right. Take care. I'm going to link everything up in the show notes and yeah, I can't wait to continue, continue this discussion and hear more from our listeners about this episode. This was awesome.

Speaker B [00:50:48 - 00:50:48]

Thanks so much, Melissa.

Melissa [00:50:49 - 00:51:11]

Okay, bye-bye. And there you have it, folks, another inspirational interview with an OT gone rogue. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please help us reach more OTs by going to Apple Podcasts and leaving a review on the show. All right, that's it for me, everyone. Take care, and we'll see you next week.