225. “Humanity of Business” with Graham Skidmore

Dawn talks with Graham Skidmore about keeping humanity at the center of business amid rapid AI adoption. Graham argues AI should augment human agency like a calculator, not replace people, and warns that capitalism’s push for efficiency can overlook effectiveness, empathy, and stewardship. They discuss how one-size-fits-all systems in education and workplaces stifle human potential by forcing people into a “box,” and how companies often treat empathy as a tool to persuade others to conform rather than truly valuing different perspectives. Graham suggests using AI to remove heavy-lifting tasks so employees can contribute to creative problem-solving, and recommends making idea-sharing a requirement through mechanisms like innovation days or internal “shark tank” pitches. They also address ethical concerns about job displacement and the need to define limits on profit-driven automation.

Who is Graham Skidmore and whom does he serve? (00:49)

AI as a Tool (01:11)

Empathy and Stewardship (03:24)

Breaking the Box (03:48)

Personalized Potential (06:41)

Bridging Perspective Gaps (09:32)

Empathy as a Mask (12:21)

Unlocking Innovation Safely (15:31)

AI to Free Thinking (17:32)

Making Input Required (21:20)

Individualized Learning Example (25:02)

Grow the Box (27:02)

Where to Connect (27:51)

Ethics Beyond Optimization (29:17)

Graham Skidmore’s Information:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graham-skidmore/

Website: https://harmonyhealthinstitute.com/meet-your-facilitators/

Transcript

Intro/Outro: 0:03

Welcome to Business Mastery with forty five minute dose of expert a positive impact on your Let's get started.

Dawn Kennedy: 0:18

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Business Mastery Podcast. It is time for us to talk about the humanity in business, the humans who make business, what business is. We talk a lot about data and strategies, but at the end of the day, it's the people who have to execute and the people who have to benefit from our business. Otherwise we don't last long. So I have Graham here and we're Thank you so much for joining me

Graham Skidmore: 0:45

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate.

Dawn Kennedy: 0:47

It. All right. Can you tell everyone who you

Graham Skidmore: 0:50

Sure. Graham Skidmore and I in a human centric. Those who desire a human centric individuals, where we use AI to capabilities, not replace it.

Dawn Kennedy: 1:08

All right. Perfect. So yeah, let's first talk about There's been this huge rise in AI, and people seem to be really going back and craving that human connection, especially in certain things like customer service. But the humanity piece, the human in the loop, even if they're adjuncting with AI, do you feel like, like I do that maybe that has been overlooked a little bit in this rush to make AI everywhere?

Graham Skidmore: 1:35

Yeah. Look, I think this is I think what we're experiencing is the double edged sword of capitalism. Right? On one hand, it's great because invention and innovation. However, it can also cause short Which is how do I just make more And I think that really has been been, is just been focused on efficiencies, not just. And then we're missing the And I think, I think to, to, to create change that can benefit all. That's just strictly beyond I think you need to add the And so to your point, I'm not it's not like I'm anti AI, right? I definitely don't I'm not a conspiracy person or any of that stuff. Right. I'm just much more pro-human. And so. Right. Yeah. And so I, so for me, AI is it's A calculator is a great, wonderful tool to help with math. But just because a calculator doesn't mean that it possesses It's an amazing tool and should It can take care of a lot of efficiencies in my workflow, but more effective because for diagnosed with dyscalculia, Being able to use a calculator. Absolutely. To complement where we need compliments as individuals so that we can focus on our human skills, right. And leveraging them, which is Look, and I think that empathy foundations to product successful company that can And those are things that are human is much better suited to work with.

Dawn Kennedy: 3:22

Yeah. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the things in human, that no matter what the would be incredibly difficult, replace with technology there. There are things, like you said, And why do we not give that, I

Graham Skidmore: 3:47

I don't know, I guess this is my kind of my current read on things. And I think that what we're also way that AI is being looked at, consider to be one of the number us as a society is that these. One size. Fits the. The one size fits all systems and the one size fits all beliefs. They're kind of used to govern things the education system, the work system. It really minimizes the opportunity that's available to us. And so I think what we're seeing right now is, okay, there's this box, what it means to be a normal human. There's this box of what it There's this box of what it means to be successful in business. There's this box of what it So so now we take AI and we say, that aren't putting in the that them to be? And how do we use AI to get them And so in doing, if we're all being the same, well, we're whole lot of opportunity there. And so my point is we need to be that we each have our own And so how do we and then agency to help us to be able to of society, but by being able able to leverage our individual perspectives and experiences. To be able to do that with AI doesn't represent if you were right. And that's always my, my, my that it doesn't represent your perspective, and then come up It's based on this. This is kind of how things are And this is what you need to do I know I'm oversimplifying, but.

Dawn Kennedy: 5:23

Right, so I understand. So let's talk about this expected box of success because I think it is much easier if everything is cookie cutter, right? We don't have to be creative. We don't have to think outside We're not required to lean into for the most part, we could far as making decisions, curious investment in the humanity in what's the marketing in that? And I know that's probably an odd question, but isn't that sort of what we've been moving towards the last ten, fifteen years? Is this one size fits all and And this is when you work from when you implement a new always do the thing because it Even though to your point, it's the one size fits all actually doesn't work. That just seems to be the Yeah.

Graham Skidmore: 6:26

I think that well, I agree with Everything has gone into this optimization, compartmentalized, bring things down and then figure out how to put the pieces together in the most effective way. And I think that in education probably the first two individualized approach can be I think that twenty years ago, to leverage technology, if you people as individuals, that And that just and that just The same thing in the education If we acknowledge that there's however, you can't you're not inefficient right now or not teachers in a classroom each. That that that what's it called? The teacher based on their respective ways of learning in the classroom. But with technology, you can now You can lean into those things, And same thing with health and There's this belief that humans have the same physiology. And when we're all treated the But again, and there's, there's certain elements of truth to that. There's not. But what but I think that what we're looking at when we look at And I think that there's a lack because we have created a capping out the human potential size fits all box and saying We stifle that, stifle the human by putting everybody in this one And so therefore then the approach becomes, well, hey, if humans are tapped out, how do we get how do we break through that barrier? That's where we need AI. Well, no, no, no, let's back up Right. If we started actually investing and had everybody operating at their intellectual capacity. Now you've got now it becomes a you're comparing humans that can that really is focused on need all those pieces together. But we've got to get back to investing in and that the human And that's where that doesn't necessarily hold so well in a capitalist society. Until you find a solution that prevail, so to speak. Or there's an upside for

Dawn Kennedy: 8:44

So investing in the human intellectual potential, I know who are listening in or maybe going, but I went to school, I continuing education and I send conferences for learning. Isn't that investment in their

Graham Skidmore: 9:08

It is. And that's where I answer the But it's not in their potential It's not in their individual It is. It's helping their potential. Yeah. So it's certainly better than It's, it's, but it's not achieving the full potential that's available for that individual.

Dawn Kennedy: 9:23

So what would that look like? Where would we start to make

Graham Skidmore: 9:30

So I think that this is where I think the the learning process is really where I see the first low hanging piece of low hanging fruit with incorporating AI and humans together is because we all agree that there's a certain in society, while we can all be quote unquote snowflakes, there are certain agreements that we all have. We're going to treat each other People say, people say, read the Okay, well, telling somebody to the person to read the room the may not necessarily work out experiences, you have your ethnicities, culture, religions, And work experiences are going based on what you see. And I have mine. And they may not always And so what needs to happen is, okay, how do we, how do we identify what those gaps are and help them? And, and we are going to have to the majority and recognize that the status quo and what you're And so if you're not part of How do we use technology to, to help you recognize the difference between what others see? Not that because you're right or wrong, but just different so that you can build bridges and recognize where the disconnects are. So you can speak to those disconnects and speak to those people and through those languages. And that was one of like, for me of the biggest challenges that I creative problem solve and see wonderful, created a ton of on the same page with everybody then was a whole other ball game willing to sit down and talk understand why people don't see How do you see this with this Because to me, it's so clear And so that's where I see the to bridge those gaps, to help essentially you're helping You're helping, you're using it to put yourself in somebody else's shoes so that you can relate and speak to that without having to give up your own agency, without having to give up your own beliefs, without having to compromise your own way of interacting with the world. But now being able to be better received in what we're trying to accomplish.

Dawn Kennedy: 11:37

So do you see a marked change, let's say over the last, I don't know, twenty, let's say twenty years between people being able to put themselves in someone else's shoes. It almost feels like when you remember that years ago. Anyway, in school and in of training things, they would someone else would see this? Is that not being asked anymore? Are we not? Have we removed that? I would call empathy. But putting yourself in someone and third order effects from Do you feel like that's maybe a skill that's no longer being taught?

Graham Skidmore: 12:19

You know, I think there's a So yes, I think it gets brought but I feel like it's brought up. And again, I'm painting broad I'm not obviously sure.

Dawn Kennedy: 12:31

Sure.

Graham Skidmore: 12:31

Of course. Right. But but I I think it's a little misleading bringing that up, there's still these things to get you to see Right. And so, yeah, I'm going to ask can understand where the how long we're going to fix this it my way. Not getting not. And so that goes back to how do I best get you to fit into that box. And so in that approach.

Dawn Kennedy: 13:00

It's more convincing rather than being truly open minded is what you're saying. Like it's more about.

Graham Skidmore: 13:05

I think that's the only way to

Dawn Kennedy: 13:07

But it's that's really what it Is that we've been taught, and that leadership books and other classes and things that while how you see things or your open could be just I'm asking because because you're not in the box. We need to get you in the box. So I'm asking you because you need to go in the box, not because I respect your box pretty much.

Graham Skidmore: 13:36

Right. And I think the other and let's just say that from companies, let's say, gave it and said like, hey, look, you do But then if you as an the upside in doing that, revenue generation or go like, look, How much is this? How much time, energy, money am And how much value am I really doesn't create a meaningful And that's then kind of where it company values, right? And so then I think that we've people are like, hey, look, same It sounds like a good concept, tangible return that's doesn't make sense to keep And then it kind of falls to the

Dawn Kennedy: 14:28

Right? So basically, we've tied the human condition to the bottom line when it comes to business, instead of the human condition, to the impact to the organization, whether or not there's a a dollar revenue generated.

Graham Skidmore: 14:44

Absolutely.

Dawn Kennedy: 14:46

So how do we start to address Because to your point, when I saying, what about trade shows That is limited to your almost relationship that you build or really meant primarily to impact which is where you work. Maybe it'll have some spillover into your other relationships and interactions, but I think that we do sort of segregate that or put it in a silo that if you're going to do professional development or personal development, it's meant to primarily benefit the organization that is sending you.

Graham Skidmore: 15:26

Yeah. And I think this is when we talk about valuing creative problem solving, we talk about valuing free thinkers, but typically that's valued in hindsight because until you actually create the impact, it's more like just get in line and conform, right? Like you said, people were like, hey, I go to, you know, we go to school to, to learn the same set of information and essentially to think about things the same way. Right? How do we run a marketing What are the basics of it? What are the measurements of it? Right. Everybody comes out thinking the Right. And so it's not. And so along the way, I think this is where the rub comes in, is that people are conditioned to fit in until they somehow find a way to break out of that mold. And then it's then there's value in hindsight and then can be leveraged throughout the system, but it's still thought of, well, it's not just, it's still thought of as the minority that we should be investing our time because to an extent, you do need, you do need some alignment to be able to operate in a business. Right? So I want to but how do we the size fits all. It's okay. We need to here's where we need But now how do we unleash the How do we unlock the innovation? How do we unlock the invention without also without then also unlocking chaos? Right?

Dawn Kennedy: 16:42

Was it Steve Jobs who said you forward, only going backwards? I think it was his statement see everything and connect the can't see it in front of you And I think what I'm hearing here also is as far as like unleashing people's creative abilities and making those investments in people individually. Overall, the benefit is a much more not just competent or confident workforce, but one that might be even more willing to do things like embrace technology where it's necessary and maybe lower some resistance to change inside an organization because they feel like they're being heard and they feel like they're being valued in that individual capacity.

Graham Skidmore: 17:29

Yeah. And I think that this is are listening, especially in a look, man, I give my people bring me anything. So you're just spouting some idealism, some hubris, some ideology there. Graham and I suddenly understand though is, yeah, but what is fulfilling prophecy though, in the in the majority of places I've spoken to is that The the people that report to them, together the information, then Okay. And so, and if they. And so if you and if that's the way that it is, people are spending all of their time doing the heavy lifting versus the thinking. And so, yeah, you're not going ability to bring their brain to you're able to bring your brain This is where AI then can really take away those hours that are, heavy lifting of the gathering analysis so that somebody else And so now you have the AI that you can better leverage the creative problem solving generating ideas, and endure That really matters. And I think that's where the now in the in the chain.

Dawn Kennedy: 18:50

Do you think it is because just historically or Traditionally, they don't necessarily expect you to bring your brain to the table until you reach a certain level. Should we be encouraging more? Bring your brain, even at the most junior level or the intern level. I think that traditionally there's been a bias towards experience versus that creativity. I'm curious curious on what your

Graham Skidmore: 19:21

Yeah. I think and this again, organization set up what it managers, because in some cases, come up with the ideas, I figure just to go execute. Okay. Right. All right. But then that's the manager gets upset when somebody doesn't solve a problem the way that they would. Or they're like, well, you've put me into a purely an execution role. You didn't ask me to think. You didn't ask me to have a working knowledge of this information you just asked me to do. Right. And so now then again, you have self-fulfilling prophecy based And yeah, there's nobody that's solutions than the people that problem to begin with. Right. And so, and I think that there's it's quick to discredit people haven't maybe achieved the same based on where somebody is at in needs to have accomplished a their, their thoughts are worthy

Dawn Kennedy: 20:23

So how do we start to address Where do we start to make those Do we? And to your point, I agree with AI can go out now and crawl and do all of the research and all the trend data and provide all those things that you could be looking for, as long as you prompt it correctly and you sort of know what you're doing with it, that you'll get the relevant data that you need ten times faster, maybe even more than that, to be able to make those moves and execute and make decisions. So with that free time, and I'll agree with you that we are absolutely freeing up people's hours in the day where they would go out and have to collate data and fill up spreadsheets manually. Now that stuff can be done So how do we start to include broader, bigger decisions and

Graham Skidmore: 21:18

I mean, the easiest way to do it it a requirement, right? Requiring people to provide oh, like an innovation day or internal shark tank where people and present them. Right. So maybe, and I think little great start to start getting providing the space and the their ideas to. But the leadership also has to recognize that if they don't implement some ideas, then people are gonna stop thinking, right. And so that's, I think a lot of hey, I gave some chances. It didn't work out the way that So I just stopped. I just stopped giving chances.

Dawn Kennedy: 22:05

So people shut down also if

Graham Skidmore: 22:09

So I mean, I dealt with that a

Dawn Kennedy: 22:11

Yeah.

Graham Skidmore: 22:13

Yeah. I was one of those I could more of my time being that, hey, And then, and then once I, then I recognized how much was being left on the table because I wasn't trusting and tapping into the subject matter experts enough. And once I learned how to do up, morale went up, enjoyment But but I definitely, but I had mirror and go, okay, I'm the I'm

Dawn Kennedy: 22:41

I love this idea of internal Have you done that? Have you participated in That sounds really fun,

Graham Skidmore: 22:48

Yeah, I did. It was quite a while ago, but at Quicken Loans now Rocket And sometimes there were monetary incentives associated with it as well, or other incentives. So there wasn't just, hey, get Everybody appreciates be getting stuff or money for

Dawn Kennedy: 23:09

Right. So going above and beyond. But this actually, if we become the new brand standard and the empathy and all of the the ones on full display and

Graham Skidmore: 23:28

Absolutely. I mean, if we just simply as a manager, if you look at your people and go, what is needed to take Bob or Jane from A to their potential. First of all, let's understand what's what do I believe that the difference is in the potential between or the opportunity between where Jane and Bob is at and what the potential is. Now, what's holding them up are these things that I can solve for. Are the things that I can for, and then am I willing to do investment to do so. All right. And then from there. Right. Then Jane and Bob go, okay. Again, through stewardship, this This is how we're serving the This is how we say it. This is what we say. We want to be serving the What's that disconnect? What is now standing in the way Is it process? Is it money? Is it tools? Is it access? Is it product? And then based on what's missing as a company to, to bridge that Right. And so it's the same thing. It's the same thought process applied to, to a different user.

Dawn Kennedy: 24:30

Right? Yeah. So instead of that that humanity spend or a cross So do you see any companies that are actually doing this really well that may have given some sort of framework or insight or some sort of way to start to wrap your head around this, because the humanity piece is intangible. The impact is obviously pretty We typically see it.

Graham Skidmore: 24:56

Yeah, I'm sure there are where So what I was the one example that I like to use is there was a map. So this is a very small And her son got labeled with disability or just didn't learn And so she recognized so she leveraged technology to dyslexic. And so, and so she created a tool, a technology tool to help him learn based on how he learned. And then she recognized there was the same thing within people with dyslexia learned a certain way. But then ADHD learned a certain Autistic learned a certain way. So she just repurposed the same different ways that these people So that the end game was they matter expert or the same were able to become competent But their learning path was And so to me, that's one of the what I believe in is leveraging help the individual. But again, what we aren't in the sense of we're all No, we're also trying to learn It's just the path to getting there is what really needs to be individualized.

Dawn Kennedy: 26:08

Yes, it's that meet you where you are so that you can excel in the best way that you can learn the material. And then when that happens in a company, because I can see the second and third order, it probably builds a lot more confidence. And with that confidence, people speak up as well.

Graham Skidmore: 26:29

Oh, without a doubt. I again, I can speak from my by being the know it all in the proper floor to speak to. And then yeah, they just. So then you end up. I ended up creating People are like, dude, every can chop it off. So why would I do that? Every time I bring an idea, you So why do I want to keep doing So essentially what you're frustrated with me because I'm not bringing you ideas or creativity. What I'm telling you is what reflection of how you've treated have or have not given. So, so something's got to give something to change.

Dawn Kennedy: 27:06

Right. Right. Makes a lot of sense. And again, this isn't anti like, this is just the years prioritizing one in the optimization over the other in really what it feels like.

Graham Skidmore: 27:29

And I think that's what. And that's the problem with this one size fits all box, right, is that now it becomes a game of optimization. How can I best optimize inside better set up to win that game. But when we talk about how do I that's where that's where the

Dawn Kennedy: 27:46

Right? So where can people find you, on social maybe.

Graham Skidmore: 27:53

B yeah, I think that the if health and wellness perspective check us out at the Harmony But if somebody wants to connect Skidmore. So LinkedIn backslash. Graham Skidmore is a way to I publish articles there with obviously different perspectives on a lot of things and or just want to reach out and say, hey, that's cool.

Dawn Kennedy: 28:18

All right, so LinkedIn is the best platform to reach out and go to your website for more information about how you're leveraging this in your business. All right. So we're going to put that all So if you find this on the day years later, you will still be still be able to read his able to get the information that So thank you so much for having I really do think it's a balancing act at this point as it's relatively new, but not really. It's kind of like the PC was in is just we're getting there. We think we know what we're We think we know how big it's But to your point, it's going to And if it's all in the name of will have to be left outside optimize like a math problem.

Graham Skidmore: 29:11

Yeah, and that's exactly right. I think the thing that's a little different is that like, there is a, there's a societal factor here that's much bigger, right? When you start putting people And I think that there's, there's a much larger ethical component that we as a society and companies and businesses have to decide, where is that lie? What line are we willing to And I think that that's one of that's got to get figured out. If we're first, if we're really integrate and get and make the everybody working together so one sided or lopsided kind of

Dawn Kennedy: 29:55

Yeah.

Graham Skidmore: 29:56

Us versus them. Yeah. There's nothing the good

Dawn Kennedy: 30:00

No, not at all. That's a great wrap up. Well, thank you so much for being here and having this conversation. I think it's incredibly timely through twenty twenty six.

Graham Skidmore: 30:11

Yes. Thank you again so much for I really appreciate it.

Dawn Kennedy: 30:14

All right. Well, talk to you all next time Business Mastery Podcast. Take care.

Intro/Outro: 30:24

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Business Mastery Podcast. If you want to learn more about dot com and you can now check us course, any of your favorite Take care.