The Leadership Line

Unmasking Our Mental Shortcuts: How Cognitive Biases Shape Our Thinking

• Tammy Rogers and Scott Burgmeyer • Season 6 • Episode 23

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Ever wondered why you rush to judgment, follow trends without thinking, or believe you're always right? You're not alone. In this enlightening conversation, the entire Become More team gathers to unpack the cognitive bias personas introduced in their new book "Think" and confess which bias they most identify with.

Scott humorously embraces being "All-knowing Albert," while Tammy identifies as "Jumping Julia," explaining how quickly jumping to conclusions has been both her superpower and weakness. Karman and Josh connect with "Running Rodney," the bias that manifests as rushing to complete tasks without sufficient thought. The team explores how these mental shortcuts evolved for our survival but can be problematic in modern contexts.

What makes this discussion particularly valuable is the vulnerability shown by each team member. Susan admits that imposter syndrome once made her "Soundbite Steve," adopting others' phrases rather than developing her own thoughts. Marcella shares how making snap judgments gives her comfort when feeling out of control. Michael discusses navigating between industry standards and original thinking as a designer.

The conversation takes a turn when connecting these biases to our relationship with artificial intelligence. In an age where AI can handle routine thinking, our ability to recognize when to use mental shortcuts versus when to engage deeper analysis becomes our competitive advantage. 


Your brain developed these shortcuts for good reason, but knowing when they serve you and when they limit you is key to leveling up your thinking. Listen now to discover which cognitive bias persona might be running your thought patterns without you even realizing it.

Karman:

Hello Tammy and Scott, hello Karman.

Scott:

C.

Karman:

And friends and friends. So, listeners, we are joined today by the entire Become More staff, well, most.

Tammy:

We have a couple Oh'm missing, but we have the vast majority here today.

Karman:

We've got a lot of guest voices for you to listen to. Yep, we do so. We've talked a little bit about your new book for the last couple of weeks. I love that. It's kind of exciting. It's kind of exciting. It's kind of exciting. It's a pretty cool thing and one of the pieces of the book very early on you lay out a collection of personas that each tie to a kind of cognitive bias Correct, and cognitive bias is like sort of a boring technical term.

Tammy:

Neuroscientists don't think it's boring, but it can be technical and it's a little confusing.

Karman:

So we created personas to kind of just like help people understand, yeah, yeah, and I love them, and they're each a really distinct personality. So what I thought we would do today is in a round robin with all of us staff people together is each talk about which of those personas we kind of like identify with, and why that persona speaks to us or teaches us a lesson or gives us some insight about ourselves. Tammy and Scott, do you want to start?

Tammy:

Oh, okay, do you have one?

Scott:

Oh, absolutely.

Tammy:

Of course you do. You probably have all of them.

Scott:

I've known since we wrote the book it's simple.

Tammy:

They're all in you.

Scott:

I'm only one you're only one yes, bob the Brain, that's not one of the cognitive bias personas Scott oh, I'm sorry, I have none of them which is also a lie because all of us those cognitive biases.

Tammy:

It's not like hey, like what every person is actually kind of the way the brain has evolved. We have all of those inside of us, all of them, all of them, all, of them all of them now. Some of them may be a little bit more like, so they may be prioritized, you might use one more than others.

Michael:

Oh, we have a default Kind of sort of.

Tammy:

It's the stuff that made us safe when we were being chased by lions.

Scott:

Are you lying right now?

Tammy:

You're such a pain in the, the place where the lion bites you.

Scott:

You are such a pain in the ass. You know, if I was going to say who is mine that I'd probably default to the most.

Karman:

Wait, do we get to pick, since you won't? Oh, yes, you can.

Scott:

You know, what we ought to do is we ought to vote, and hold up the sticker. See, I was going to say. That's not what I was going to say.

Jenn:

This one right there is Mr Bergmeier.

Karman:

Listeners, you can't see, but we have stickers for each of the personas, absolutely, and it is so. That is exactly it Tammy has handed Scott the sticker for All-knowing Albert.

Tammy:

That is Mr Burtman.

Scott:

See, the problem is I don't see that as a cognitive bias for me. I think that is just a fact for me, and we just made the point of the entire book right there, listeners, please understand.

Tammy:

There are some of us who, like, think that there's nothing wrong with these cognitive biases, and Scott's just making the point. I am, I am yes absolutely, I'm just helping you out.

Scott:

No, you actually believe it so just there are times I do believe it, yes, 100.

Tammy:

So all knowing, elbert, I almost wish now that somehow or another I'd done that with an a and a and smart oh no, you could have done smarty pants, scott, that would have been fun With an A and a smart.

Karman:

Oh no, you could have done smarty pants, Scott. We need to call back every episode every edition of the book and rewrite it, just to rename

Tammy:

that one, scott, yeah, or smart ass, scott, smart ass. It's better than being a dumb ass.

Scott:

That's absolutely true. That is yes, okay, so yeah, that's mine, what's yours?

Tammy:

You know um I have had different ones over my life that kind of oh I know what it is, yeah, so the one that I had when I was younger, right Was get along, gary.

Tammy:

So I was like I wanted everybody to like me and I didn't want to push any envelopes and I would do whatever I thought people wanted me to do, and that's what get along Gary's do. Um, but at this age I am not a get along Gary. So, um, I think, in all honesty, I am a running Rodney. So I, um, you know, I hear something and I, oh no, I'm lying, I'm lying.

Scott:

Is it this one?

Tammy:

It's jumping. So Scott just actually wrote down yeah, something I can't say, but it made me laugh. That is terrible. I'm changing my mind. Look at me, I'm jumping all over the place. I'm jumping, julia. I jump to assumptions pretty, pretty quickly, like you meet someone and you have that first kind of gut reaction yeah, I'm, I'm jumping, julia, that's that's where does that serve you well and where does that get in the way?

Tammy:

Um, so honestly it's. I do kind of have a superpower maybe in that space of reading people and understanding how to best interact with them. That is really good. With that jumping joy, I'm very quick to see that. However, I can also jump to conclusions and jump to the wrong conclusion wrong conclusion, Right and in doing that sometimes I may, um, jump too quickly and not step back and think it through about what that means. I just am more reactive in that spot. So, yeah, that's a.

Karman:

That's probably the place that I still struggle with my cognitive bias and I think that's a great example to just pull back to like why are we talking about cognitive biases? And in a book called think, and the idea is that these cognitive biases sometimes, maybe historically, have helped us process lots of information when there's a lot of information and they've helped us do it quickly, but then at some point they become too default and we just stop thinking.

Scott:

Well and it probably is fair to say it's we've processed air quote, processed information. But have we processed information? Because I think that's part of the thing is we use some of these as habits to take in and suck in a bunch of information and then we make decisions or have opinions about whatever the topic is. That is not right, which is, I think, part of the reason they're called a bias. I have this perspective that may not be factual.

Tammy:

We use these biases and they take us to the wrong conclusion. And they're there to you know, the reason that we have evolved this as human beings to have them is that there was a time period that we actually needed them. They helped us. It allowed us to be able to do whatever that thing is. Unfortunately, if we use them in the wrong places, you know, a lion is probably not going to jump out and bite me right as I'm walking down the streets of West Des Moines in that spot, and yet my body is still going to respond in certain ways to certain situations in the same way to try to keep me safe. And that's what these things really happen. They are, we create them.

Tammy:

You know the way that we've evolved over time as human beings is. We created these things in a way that was really positive. But if we're using them now in a way that is not positive, it's not helping us, then we end up doing things that are not good for us in that particular spot, and that's unfortunately what most of us done. You know the way that our world is today. We don't need a lot of them. We needed them then. We don't need them now.

Karman:

And I think sometimes we do need them now, and while their um source is maybe more like lizard brain you know the lions after us but there are experiences we have that show us that sometimes these habits work for us and then sometimes they don't. So my own is running Rodney, my own is running Rodney and, after working for you know, many decades in an industry that was contracting, my ability to show that I got stuff done was a really good coping mechanism and a really good habit. And I also see now where sometimes my running rod need like oh, you want that. Like oh, yeah, and that I don't ask questions or I don't think it through or I'm not critical about it. Um, that doesn't always serve me well. Yeah, it's a great example.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Karman:

Josh, which one do you identify with?

Josh:

I might just have to piggyback off of what you said. I identify as running or athlete two reasons. First, it's because I'm a track star and second, because I do resonate with the same idea if this was an interview setting and you asked me hey, Joshua, what are your strengths?

Josh:

I would say yeah, I'm quick on my feet, I think about stuff fast, I'm like heavy on deadlines, and so then that translates to the persona that is running Rodney. So something that could have been my strength, if I don't think about it properly, actually turns into my weakness if I don't know how to apply it.

Karman:

Yeah, two sides of the same coin.

Tammy:

The other side of it is that this persona actually does look like Josh, so Running Rodney and Josh kind of look like the same human being. We actually created that persona before we met you. But you know, you can wear that as a badge of honor now, here I am.

Josh:

You should change the name to Running Joshua.

Tammy:

Except for you know, they all kind of have this alliteration, all they do yeah bummer, bummer.

Karman:

Next job jogging job yeah, jogging or something that maybe that's fast-paced jogging, john?

Michael:

oh no, you're making eye contact with Jen.

Jenn:

Oh, passing the baton, yeah, so I also would pick jumping Julia. I think part of it is in my discovery calls. What I've had to learn is keep peeling back the onion, like I jumped to conclusion based off of something when really I just need to keep going deeper and get to the root cause, and that's what I'm learning and I'm working on Karman.

Karman:

I like it. Are there places where it serves you well? Um?

Scott:

Oh gosh, buying 1,072 pairs of shoes 1,072 pairs of shoes.

Jenn:

Let's go. Um, no it. I can move quickly and I'm running here with Josh, but I think part of it is. I just need to make sure I hit the pause button enough to keep going deep enough, I like that.

Tammy:

I like that a lot and listeners probably want to know why she has 1,000, over 1,000 pairs of shoes. It's not because she has a big, huge closet.

Marcela:

No.

Tammy:

Actually it's a really, really cool thing that Jen does. Jen actually every fall not only gets shoes for kids, but she also gets backpacks full of school supplies for kids and she helps. A couple of nonprofits in the Ames area take care of kids who can't and families who can't afford to buy that for their children.

Michael:

That's amazing.

Tammy:

It's a really cool thing. How many backpacks are you going to do this?

Jenn:

year we're going to do 1,700 backpacks and we're going to do probably about 1,200 pairs of shoes and we're giving them all away for free.

Tammy:

Isn't that cool.

Scott:

Super cool.

Tammy:

Yeah, it's really neat to have someone in our team that cares so much about their community.

Jenn:

And I have a gift of shopping. So you know what. Use the gifts that you're given, and she uses other people's money and it's not my money.

Karman:

I help organizations buy great products at low prices. It's awesome.

Susan:

Susan, which persona do you feel like is speaking to you, of you? Yes, so I I've gone back and forth because I can see all of them in me at times and I feel like I want to relate to running Rodney, but I want to talk about it, one that we haven't talked about as much that I know I did earlier in my career a lot which was soundbite Steve, and I think that really came from a place of having a lot of imposter syndrome of like I want to fit in. So I'm just gonna say, like what everyone else says and grab on to soundbites, that of people that I either looked up to or worked with a lot, and just I'm going to say the same things and I'm not really going to take the time to think about what, what does this actually mean, or how are we going to apply this in our client work or anything like that. It was just kind of grabbing onto the catchphrases that other people said and doing the same thing.

Tammy:

Then you're never wrong, right.

Susan:

Yes, that's a good point. I didn't think about it like that. Tammy, that's a really good point.

Tammy:

So if you're saying what other people are saying, it's just the thing, that's you know, that's fine yeah.

Susan:

Like I fit in. I'm never going to create an unpopular opinion Everybody likes, me.

Scott:

Yeah, we do Like you, care I.

Susan:

So that's why it was really hard for me to think through, because, again, I think there's been projects or phases or times where I've seen myself exhibit all of these for sure. Very relatable, marcella.

Marcela:

I'll have to choose one that it was already picked, like Jumping Julia, but mine. I think that my reasoning comes from like the place that like I feel, like I have no like. If I have no control, I will jump into conclusions because I have to know.

Michael:

Like I, have to know.

Marcela:

You know what I'm saying like, maybe I think something's wrong with something. I'll just make a conclusion to what that's wrong, because I feel like I need to have control of that.

Tammy:

I think you know what you say there. That is very true of why people do that. Yeah, and there I have someone in my life that that is exactly right. That's thing of if I feel out of control, if I jump in and I make this thing, this to be true. Therefore, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Marcela:

Yeah, it's like, it's like I want to like judge on that stuff like someone by its cover, you know, like that saying, but it's just like I don't know, know, I just need to know.

Susan:

So it's, I jump into the conclusion and then you've solved it in your brain already, right? You're like here's the conclusion good, I can move on and that there's like, exactly, there's like a little piece that is comforting with that too.

Karman:

Yeah, I love the self-awareness of that and I also love how it points out that, um, like we all come to these things in different ways, like we have our own, you know, childhood experiences and early job experiences, and like there are lots of reasons but the same actions and biases still show up, you know, pretty universally, absolutely.

Michael:

Yeah, all right, I'm up. All right, michael, you're up. That's me. So I'm going to do what we haven't talked about yet Carry the trend follower. You know, in an industry like graphic design or like when you work with things like that, there's so many like standards and kind of rules that you follow, but it gets to a point where it can become like almost like a cookie cutter design. So like, yeah, it served me well in certain ways. You know I'm not using comic sans and papyrus, like it's 2008, but there's like. There's a difference between between kind of like having your own style and following that trend. So like it's it's. It's a hard line to like to follow yeah, I love it.

Scott:

this episode brought to you by comic sans, so like it's it's, it's a hard line to like to follow.

Jenn:

Yeah, this episode brought to you by Comic Sans.

Scott:

I did not expect that out of his mouth, serving designers since 2008.

Susan:

I was going to say, like every graphic designer, every marketing guru is going to just die.

Michael:

No, but it's always like. It's always like the advice. Here are these five things you should be doing as a graphic designer. And it's like always, it's always the same bull Like. Sorry, oh my bad, but yeah, you know what I mean.

Karman:

Yeah, it is that fine line to walk in lots of careers where you need to be on trend, like, but maybe just enough off trend to not be doing what everybody else is doing Differentiate identify.

Michael:

yeah.

Tammy:

The follower versus the leader, that other spot.

Tammy:

Or making decisions not based upon just following but, based upon what's best in the situation and that spot, and really, in the end, these personas, it's just a sampling of the cognitive biases that are out there, and the fact of the matter is, is that all of the biases that are there, oftentimes, you know, yeah, as Karman, like you said, they have served us.

Tammy:

They're there for a reason.

Tammy:

If we had to think through absolutely everything every time, it would slow us down as human beings, and so this is like the shortcuts, right, and that that's what they were there for it's to shortcut it so we can get from here to there faster, right?

Tammy:

And in the world of AI, where we can let AI think for us, we have to recognize that if we don't go beyond what we can ask a question about to get an answer, if we are not taking ourselves and thinking that through and processing in that we're not going to differentiate ourselves. Pretty soon we're all going to be Terry the Trendsman. Pretty soon. The answers are there and our brains don't have to decide this one over that Somebody else would do that for us. And in that spot, companies can't afford that. We can't afford to just have something else do our thinking for us. We need to tap into this wonderful thing between our ears and make it work for us as individuals, make it work for us as a team and make it work for us as an organization, and if we aren't doing that, we're not becoming the best of what we could be.

Scott:

And I think the other piece I would add is, if we really want to be the best of the best, it's about saying where do I use these and get the outcome I need to? That's speed, go there now, right. Go there now, right, go there now. And where do I not use these to level up as an individual, as a team, as an organization? Because that's really where the differentiation comes Correct. It's not saying AI is bad, it's saying where are you using that to solve little things that are lower level thinking, repetitive tasks, those kinds of things. And then how are we really differentiating ourselves as an individual, a team and as an organization?

Tammy:

Absolutely and that spot and remembering that, truly, this gift of this brain, bob the brain, right, each of us have this gift of this brain, bob the brain, right, each of us have this gift. Yes, you are a gift. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Yeah, I'm not. Trust me Totally, totally. Set yourself up. But in that space, if we, if you don't use it, you lose it, right, and I think it's very easy and we kind of slide into this place where we're just reacting, you know, and it's that spot that's. There are places in time for that right, and where are the places and spaces that would be really important for us to go beyond that right and choose those time periods so that we can become more, in all honesty, in that space. And so, again, just because we're saying cognitive biases doesn't mean they're bad, doesn't mean that right, they're not. It's part of who we are, it helps us in many ways and let's continue to exercise that thing between our ears.