Coaching Quiet Leaders To Be Heard

Ever left a room and realized your silence got read as doubt, disengagement, or indecision? We unpack why thoughtful people get overlooked in fast-talking cultures and how small, intentional moves can change everything—without forcing you to become someone you’re not. Together we explore the real “why” behind speaking up, from countering perfectionism to clarifying alignment, and we map out practical steps for showing presence in the moments that matter.

We share a coaching story of a CFO-track leader who felt invisible in big meetings and found traction through one-on-one coffees, prepared questions, and crisp meeting signals. You’ll learn how asking better questions can raise your perceived competence more than long speeches, and how a two-second affirmation—“Yes, let’s proceed”—can unlock team confidence and execution speed. We also get tactical: pre-meeting prep to identify a clarifying question, a key risk, and a closing statement of support; mid-meeting checkpoints to surface bottlenecks without grandstanding; and end-of-meeting cues that remove ambiguity about decisions and ownership.

Conflict isn’t a personality trait; it’s a trainable skill. We break down a simple loop to stay calm under pressure—name the issue, state impact, ask for perspective, propose a next step—and show how to choose when to speak or pause using short-term and long-term impact checks. The throughline is agency: you can honor your natural style and still expand your range. If you want your team to move faster and your ideas to travel farther, make your stance legible and your intentions clear.

Transcript

Playful Yodels And Pudding Memories

Karman 0:30

Good morning, Scott and Tammy.

Tammy 0:33

Good morning, Karman.

Scott 0:34

Yodels, Karman.

Karman 0:36

Is that a request?

Scott 0:39

Sure.

Karman 0:40

Go for it.

Tammy 0:42

Little lady. That was pretty good.

Scott 0:46

That was pretty good. Yeah.

Tammy 0:49

Not too bad, Miss Yodeler.

Karman 0:51

Yeah. I should practice. Who knows?

Tammy 0:54

I I didn't even if I if you'd asked me to do that, I wouldn't have done it even close to right. I'm impressed.

Karman 1:00

There is some joke where the punchline is little old lady who, and that is how I learned to Yodel. And I don't remember the joke anymore, but but you know how to yodel. But I kind of uh yeah. So speaking of like performing just one second.

Scott 1:24

I think what our listeners would really like to let me get this right here. I'm sure this violates some kind of copyright.

Speaker 1:39

Hi, I'm Swiss Smith, and I'd like to introduce my pudding bars. Putting amazing pudding frozen lipstick. So they're very creamy and very delicious, and very hard to keep around.

Tammy 1:59

Pudding bars, thank you so much for taking us down another episode.

Scott 2:03

She yodels and the mountain says pudding. And so it's just it's a classic. It's a classic from 19, our year of the Lord, 1982.

Tammy 2:16

1982. You were born then.

Scott 2:20

Well, I was alive then. I wasn't born then. You probably were graduating high school. I had you were in college. Yeah. Some of us weren't in high school yet.

Framing The Speaking Up Dilemma

Tammy 2:36

Yeah. Some of us uh were um almost graduated from college in 82. So yes, I am older than you are and very proud of it. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, close to Medicaid, a couple couple days.

unknown 2:51

Yeah.

Karman 2:53

So you guys asked me to, you know, yodel on demand there. And some people are good at performing or answering, you know, like on the fly. And some people uh that strikes fear into their hearts. Yes. And so my question today, kind of following this theme that we started last week about the power of coaching. When you coach with someone whose natural tendency is to be more thoughtful and not to speak up, maybe that's just how they're built. You know, like I just don't have a need to share what's in my head, like some people do. For other people, it's uh there is a fear of speaking up, and that can hold people back or make them appear as if they don't, you know, have great thoughts in their head. Like, what are some of the things when you coach with somebody for whom it's difficult to speak up, what are some of the things that you tell them or suggest?

Tammy 4:12

Scott, I'm gonna let you go first on this one.

Risks, Perfectionism, And Why It Matters

Scott 4:14

In my mind, the first thing I want to know is why do they want to speak up faster? And for them to understand, I'm just gonna say the benefits and the risks. And and what I mean by that is in my experience, the biggest risk, which is super unfair to them, if they're like, oh, I take, I take a little more time to think, is people who think fast or talk out loud can think they're either not engaged or they're just stupid, which is really, really right, which is really unfair to them.

Tammy 4:48

Okay, unfair and reality.

Scott 4:52

Oh, and reality for sure. Yeah. And so like are they trying to solve that or are they trying to keep up with someone like what's the rationale? Okay, so once we understand that, then to me we can kind of problem solve together to say, you know, why is that? And so I always think of it as, you know, what is holding you back? Because sometimes it's I want time to think it through because I don't want to give a wrong answer. Perfectionism. Well, if it's uh I'm afraid of giving a wrong answer, we can then talk through what's the risk of a wrong answer. Are people fired for wrong answers in your organization? Are you know, we walk through all of that? So to me, we have to dissect it, and then what kind of shift in thinking do we need to support that individual on?

Overlooked Talent In Loud Rooms

Strategic Modifications For Visibility

Tammy 5:44

And Scott, I probably see this a little differently, and I think I see a little bit wrong, it's okay. Yeah, I know you say that all the time, but it's just another perspective, and I shouldn't say but and it's just another perspective. I see so many individuals who are overlooked, unseen, their brilliance is you know, missed. And I think it is partially because they're made, you know, kind of who they are as human beings, is they like to think inside of their head versus think out loud. And if you are in an organization that recognizes or rewards people who are extroverted, and if you think about it, they're probably, you know, think about your organization, who gets promoted, who gets heard in meetings, who gets, oh, that's a good idea. It it's oftentimes that person who is speaking out loud. And it it means that we lose the the the gift that that thoughtful person has. So then I will say in that space, Scott, having that conversation with someone. And I think I have coached a lot of people who will fight and say, You don't understand, I'm introverted, you don't understand, I need to think it through, you don't understand, you don't understand. And it's not that I don't understand, okay. I'm simply saying is how is it serving you? Okay. And if if following your natural inclination to be more thoughtful and to take your time and then bring something to the table, if that's serving you, there's no need to change it. If it is not serving you, then what I will tell you is every single one of us can modify. That doesn't mean we're comfortable with it, doesn't mean we like it. Okay. However, modification in order to get the outcome that you're looking for is wise. And I'm not like saying modify your values, I'm not saying modify, right? But I am saying we can get out of our comfort zone in order for us to get, you know, the results that we're looking for. That might be really, really wise. And I had a gentleman that I coached years ago, early in my career, in fact, uh within the first two years, who was CFO material and he was in a large organization in Iowa, and he was being overlooked. And so one of the things that he and I talked about was how do I, how do I not be overlooked? And my kind of as we talked through it, the first thing that we talked about is I said, start asking the C-suite people out to lunch. And he was like, What? He goes, Why would I do that? And I said, Well, because first of all, they need to know who you are. I said, second of all, you need to know what it feels like because you want to be a CFO and you're not one yet. You need to understand what it's like to sit in that suite and to be a member of that team. And I said, Three, you're more comfortable in a one-on-one than you are comfortable in a room full of people. And that was a methodology. He was so uncomfortable. But when he asked folks out for coffee or asked folks out for lunch, they said yes. And then he prepared questions ahead of time to ask them. And he found out that one of the things that actually helped him grow was to ask a question and listen. And that he got over this thing that what he needed to have come out of his mouth was brilliant. Sometimes asking the question that you are pondering is still participating, right? It's still being seen. And in fact, the research says when you ask great questions, you are more seen than when you bring great answers to the table. So it was his way, introverted, doesn't really want to do stuff in a big crowd, gets a little intimidated when he's in a boardroom, all of those things. He found that one-on-one asking questions, people got to know who he was. And then they would look to him and sometimes even say, Hey, fill in the blank, what do you think? And he had been sitting there for a half an hour in the meeting and now has an idea, right? Because you had that time to build up. So I think it's sometimes changing that perspective and changing the places and spaces that you speak up in that. And trust me, in coaching, I don't expect to ask a question and say, I'll I'll get to you next time I talk to you about that one, right? So you can also practice in these trusting environments where can you feel safe to practice getting out of your comfort zone in that spot? So yeah, a little bit different. And Scott's perspective is also true. Here's another thing you can do in that particular spot to move because if it's not if it's not serving you, it's time for you to do something different.

Karman 11:06

I think the other part is is it serving your people?

Tammy 11:10

Talk about that, Karman.

Karman 11:11

That maybe also gets back to Scott's like, why do you want to change? But, you know, I used to coach with C-suite individual who was not a great speaker-upper. And what they were hearing was that their team didn't always know where they stood. You know, like this person would be in a meeting and not particularly say where they came down on a issue or a decision or whatever. And their thought was, I don't need to say anything because I agree with everything that's been said. I don't have anything to add. And so they wouldn't say anything. And the result was that their team left that meeting wondering, does my boss agree with this? Does my boss disagree with this? I don't quite know where how I'm supposed to align here because my leader hasn't been super clear. And so so speaking up what or not speaking up was not serving the team well. Does that make sense?

Leader Clarity And Team Confidence

Tammy 12:22

Yes. And I love that example, right? So in one case, am I trying to influence the the decision that hasn't been made? In the other case, am I trying to support a decision that has been made, right? Or provide a level of confidence to the people who report to me. And I will say, we have seen a lot of leaders who didn't recognize how critical it is for them to be able to nod their head and say, yes, okay, good decision, or agree with this, or this is what we're doing. And that piece, I guess, honestly, Karman, that is so foreign to me, the way that I see the world, I'm always like, yep, let's go, right? But sometimes people absolutely need to know that their boss is like stamp of approval, right? And it's as simple as, yep, I agree, or good answer, or I I love your guys' thought pattern, let's go that direction, right? And that's more that to me, that's not so much introverted as extroversion, as it is about affirmation. So think about that. As a leader, right? I need to affirm. I need to affirm people, I need to affirm decisions, I need to affirm the process, right? It is this thing that gives others confidence that they're doing the right thing.

Karman 14:03

Affirm creates clarity.

Tammy 14:05

Yes. And it's not always affirmation that you're a good person, okay, which is how we think of that word. It is affirmation that we're on the right track. And until then, you're, I think sometimes followers they'll go run, but they're constantly turning around and saying, hey, boss, and I have a goddaughter, Zoe, and Zoe is now a teenager and she's driving. Okay. But I remember going to her sports events and she was constantly looking into the stands to see if her parents were paying attention and to see if like they were telling her she was doing the right thing. And I remember it'd be like, stay in the game, but she couldn't, she couldn't stay focused on what she was doing because she was looking to her parents to get affirmation that she was doing the right thing. And I I think we do, you know, you got to understand staff sometimes needs that too, right? Zoe eventually grew out of it because she got the confidence. But the newer someone is and the newer the boss is to that person, they're gonna turn around and look for am I am I on the right track?

Scott 15:12

Well, and it's really the it's really the leadership ladder.

Tammy 15:15

It is.

Scott 15:16

It's it's not necessarily saying they're a new and they're a new employee, they're new to that work product. Yep, that's they've never done that thing before. And and if you're not giving them feedback and having the conversation along the way, and for those of you who know having the conversation, I can use having the conversation for accountability, I can use having the conversation to give positive feedback to say, hey, you did this really, really well, or I can use that just to reinforce that they're on the right track or give the nudge left or right based on how they're performing.

Feedback, Affirmation, And Direction

Tammy 15:58

And interestingly enough, if you are a leader and you are introverted and you like to spend a lot of time in your office by yourself, okay, a lot of time not in communication, understand that's a place that once you've decided to step into leadership, you need to be in a place where you are in relationship with your staff. Just because you don't want to be in relationship with your staff, right? I've earned the right to sit in my office, right? There are some things that as a leader, even though it's not your favorite thing, I don't like conflict. Guess what? Welcome to leadership. You got to figure out how to walk through it successfully. Oh, I like an awful lot of downtime and I like to really mull things over. Oh, welcome to the fact that you have a whole bunch of people who are following you waiting for a decision to be made. There are certain things that come with certain roles, and yes, you are made the way that you are made, and you have to gain those skill sets, even though those skill sets may not be your favorite thing.

Karman 17:03

I like your example for gaining the skill set of like the potential CFO, like okay, big group, more difficult, like start small. Are there other techniques that people can use to get out of their comfort zone?

Role Demands Beyond Comfort Zones

Tammy 17:21

Oh, that's like a whole big question there. And of course there is. So I'm just gonna go to conflict. Most people grow up in households and we end up on one end of a continuum or the other. One end is I don't like conflict, I run away from it. Okay. And I will do everything to like not have it happen. The other end of that conflict is or conflict continuum kind of thing is hey, I'm very comfortable and I will stand up right in your face and we're gonna have a conversation. And I absolutely know that all of us have met people on both sides of that. The runaway and the I am in it and I'm ready to take you on right now. Okay. If this is your role model, if this is what you know and you've seen, right, those those either end of those continuums are really comfortable for you, but neither one of those is really the best in all circumstances. Okay. And actually having the ability to be able to go from one side of this to the other, depending on the circumstance and what needs to happen, is something that every leader needs to be able to do. Because if you lose your cool in a situation that losing your cool is not okay, you'll end up losing. And if you can't speak up, you run away from it, right? When you need to speak up, you are actually going to lose. And there is a way for us to win, not to beat the other person, but to win in that, to have better outcomes in that space. And I grew up in that family who we pretended conflict didn't exist and ran away from it. And I at 20, age 27, was like, this is not working for me. I've spent my entire career learning how to stay in conflict, but in a positive way, not to run away from it, but to have the conversation, to stay calm, to not be upset, to not lose it, to not all that stuff, and stay in conversation, in dialogue to get to an answer that we can live with. And I'm good at it now. Okay, but I have practiced it for 30 years. So think about that for just a minute. What skill set, what thing is not working for you? And then it's like, what steps are you going to take? And you don't have to do everything perfectly, but if you see that big old gap, putting a plan together to attack that gap to get you where you want to be, that totally and completely makes sense to me. And people sometimes want that easy answer. My learning how to deal with conflict did not happen in a year, it happened over lots and lots and lots of years. And I've been persistent about it my entire professional career once I recognized that thing wasn't working for me. Scott, have you had that same thing in your career?

Conflict Skills As A Trainable Muscle

Scott 20:17

I mean, yeah, of course. And, you know, I would say mine is the flip side, right? Not it's not speaking up, it's keeping my mouth shut. And I would say I learned that both as an individual contributor and as a leader, and I've always thought of it from we didn't, I never named it, we never named it before. We wrote COO until we call, you know, we set us the awareness quotient. And it's looking at and saying, okay, if I speak up quickly in this situation, what's the impact, positive or negative? Short term and long term. So it might be good in that moment, however, it hurt a relationship, which is not good for the long term. Or I was quiet and people assumed I agreed or assumed I disagreed. And so to me, it's it's that constant evaluation to say, when do I and when do I not? And why should I or why should I not? And if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my gosh, that sounds exhausting.

Tammy 21:29

It is.

Scott 21:30

It is. And if you want to be the frankly, the most effective worker or leader or spouse or parent, it's a constant reflection of what's working, what's not working, what do I need to do different? Do I speak up? Do I be quiet? Do I to me that's what it is.

Tammy 21:55

So this is interesting to me because what you're really talking about is we have choices.

Scott 22:02

We we do have choices.

Tammy 22:04

And I think sometimes folks want to say, I it's just who I am. I have no choice, or I just, you know, I'm just and they they like they use these things as their excuse for not making the choice and just defaulting. And yeah, life would be a whole lot easier if I could just always do the thing that I. Want to do when I want to do it, how I want to do it. Um, but the fact of the matter is that's not gonna help you achieve what it is, whatever it is that you want to achieve. And so recognizing that we do have choices and recognizing that it is our job to think through what are my options, okay, what's gonna give me the best outcome that I can, right? And that the kind of the analysis of those options, and then moving forward with that. When you actually start to recognize that you have options, you start taking control of your life instead of the world kind of just blowing you wherever you are. And I think Karman, to kind of go back to some of the thing, coaching, right? That is one of the most powerful things that we can teach folks is you're not stuck, right, with anything. You can make a choice about what it is that you want. So envision that. What is it, right? And Scott, this you talked about this as well. What's out there in the future that you want? What's the time frame? If we go back to another podcast, what's the time frame? And what are you going to do to get there? It is this piece of you are in control of your own life. So don't let others control it. You need to purposefully make those decisions, put the plans in place, and work towards it. That's a life worth living.