Stop Blaming Age Groups And Start Solving Work

“I don’t want to stereotype, but…” is usually the start of a workplace mess. We dig into why so many teams blame Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, or Gen Z when things feel tense, even though the real friction is often about values, expectations, and lived experience. We’re honest about the uncomfortable part too: everyone judges. The question is whether we act on that judgment or use it as a signal to have a better conversation.

We talk about what people believe they “owe” an organization and what an organization owes back. Does promotion require proving you can do the next job before you get it, or is that just unpaid labor dressed up as hustle? Why do younger employees want growth now, and why do long-tenured employees sometimes push back on change? Instead of turning those differences into insults, we focus on what’s right in each group: energy, innovation, optimism, historical context, and better decision-making when you put it together.

Then we go practical with modern workforce strategy. If the talent landscape is shifting, what should leaders change to attract and retain great people? We challenge the 40-hour work week, explore 30–32 hour schedules, and debate “outcomes over hours,” including where that works and where customer-facing reality sets limits. We even pull in real-world scheduling examples from nursing and healthcare to prove flexibility can be designed. If you want less finger-pointing and more solutions, hit play, then subscribe, share with a leader on your team.

Transcript

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Nostalgia, TV, And Age Jokes

Karman 0:30

Good morning, Tammy and Scott. Good morning, Karman. Hello, Karmen. Is that your like petticoat junction greeting?

Scott 0:44

That's my that's my Dennis the Menace. Hello, Mr. Wilson. Or the school of that. There's a Simpsons episode where George Bush moves across the street from the Simpsons and Bart says, Hello, Mr. Bush.

Tammy 0:59

And is it really like President Bush?

Scott 1:03

Yeah, he was he was a guest. Yeah, guest on the show. Yeah. It's funny because he and Homer get in a fight, and the Secret Service try to try to stop it. And Bush is like, No, let me add him. And the Secret Service step aside, and they have this, they have this brawl. It's it's it's pretty funny.

Tammy 1:20

Well, you know, here we have multiple generations all the way from Petticoat Junction, which some people have no idea what that is.

Scott 1:30

Is that the one with the bear with Paddington the Bear? Because he's in a because he's in a petticoat.

Tammy 1:37

No, this is a show, and a train comes in, and the gales are in the water tower, like having a swim.

Scott 1:44

Oh, okay. So it's like a brothel.

Tammy 1:48

No, an old western town. Yeah, it was very cute, right? But you had to be of a certain age, and you know it.

Scott 1:56

I so I have heard of it. I've not ever seen it. I have heard of the show. Yes, I've never seen it.

Tammy 2:04

That was like the last line of their of their song. It was fun.

Karman 2:07

I was very young, but uh it made it not me.

Tammy 2:11

Thank you, Karman. I love you so very much that you are saying that at this moment.

Karman 2:15

I mean, I was not yet in kindergarten.

Tammy 2:19

Oh my god. Okay, it is so obvious we have different generations on this podcast right this moment.

Scott 2:29

And so was did your kid, your kindergarten had paper, right? You were doing kindergarten and stone tablets, correct?

Tammy 2:36

Correct.

Scott 2:37

Hey, yeah, okay, hey.

Tammy 2:42

Michael should be beeping this at this moment, just so you know. I'm not using the words, but I'm definitely giving that impression.

Scott 2:50

Yes, yes, I understand. There was a symbolic response.

Tammy 2:53

There was a symbolic response to these two people who are teasing me about my age at this particular moment.

Do Generations Really Clash At Work

Karman 3:01

Well, what a great segue to talking about generations in the workplace. Oh goodness, is that really what you had planned? No, but here we are. I mean, it's always a surprise for you guys anyway. So if I change my mind at the last minute, nobody knows. Nobody knows.

Tammy 3:24

I love that, Karman.

Karman 3:25

All right, so what's up? Well, you know, I think we hear this a lot when we are with clients that people say, you know, like, I don't want to make generalizations about a generation, but you know, and then they go on to generalize somebody that they work with. And I know, like, so what's what's real and what's baloney about multi-generational workforces? I I don't even want to say that the issues are multi-generational because I'm not sure they are. But when when people feel like there are issues around multi-generations, what's what's really going on there? And what do you suggest for people?

Tammy 4:18

Oh, Scott, Scott, Scott, that you just gave me a whole bunch of raff of shit. Why don't you start this one?

Scott 4:27

Yeah, that's

Why Values Beat Labels

Scott 4:28

sure. Happy to. So for me, what's interesting is the more I have learned about behavioral science and just humans in general, I am getting less and less convinced that it's a generational thing. I think there are some things that happen in in life based on what when did you grow up and where did you grow up, and right? All of those, like, okay, now we're gonna talk about nature versus nurture. Right? All of these things that influence how someone is and behaves. And when to me, when someone's like, Well, I I'm not gonna but um, or I'm not gonna stereotype, and let's just let's let's just call it out. We all stereotype, we're all judgmental, and you can tell me that you're not, and you're full of shit. It's true. Okay, so let's just get that out in the open and let's just say it. All right, Karman, I know you're full of shit too. Okay, so we all do it. To me, it's what how do we act or take action upon that? So, do I shun that individual or that group of individuals? Okay, now that like, hey, that's that's a little excessive. So to me, uh when I look at this, and people are like, I don't understand those millennials, or I don't under no, I actually think it is a goal and a belief difference. Okay, so I know when I grew up in the workforce, okay, what I was taught was A, you work hard, B, you deliver results, and a combination of time and competency gets you promoted. And that isn't only time, and it isn't only competency. There's some combination of that. You don't get promoted unless you're willing to give a little bit before. Okay. So I have history of history, and if my job is I need to do these three things, doing those three things in my in my world did not get you the next thing. You actually had to do four to prove that you could do and you know potentially perform because there's no evidence that you can perform at the next level if you're not doing it a little bit. And I know that not everyone has that same belief. And I still believe that to this day, and I don't think I'll ever not believe that. Because why would I hire you off the street? Or if you're a team member, if I've never seen you demonstrate any of the skills for that job, you may be totally competent at that job. So to me, I believe I think it is hey, there is just a belief and values difference that are showing up in different ways that we can't wrap our heads around. And we frankly refuse or choose not to have the conversation with that person to say, how do we solve this?

Life Stages Mistaken For Generations

Tammy 7:38

Scott, I see part of what you're saying, and and I want to kind of add to it, or maybe uh you want to raise me 20.

Scott 7:47

Okay, excellent.

Tammy 7:48

Well, I I wanna let's talk about whether or not it's the same additive or if it's subtractive. I'm not sure. Okay. Yeah, so you know, one of the things about being in the seat that I am, I am the only one of my generation in our organization. And in many of the companies that we're walking in, I am one of the few of that generation that's still working. Many people that are my age have already retired. And so I am a boomer. Boomers are rare or rarer in the workplace. And when I talk with boomers, right, and then Gen X is right behind us, but when I talk with boomers and Gen X in this spot, they will say things like this, those young people, okay. And then they have these disparaging words that they're going to use for this generation that is coming into the workforce. And the disparaging words are things like, they're entitled, okay? They don't know what work really is. They are not willing to put in their time. So these are the negative kinds of things that I'm hearing. And what's really weird to me is that's what my father said about me, okay? That's what people said about me when I was in my early 20s. That's what people said about the generation that followed me. Okay. And we have all this research that says, hey, I was shaped because I watched men land on the moon. I was shaped because I watched petticoat junction. Right. I was shaped because, you know, I watched a shuttle explode. I was shaped because I watched the towers come down in in New York, right? We want to say that it's these societal big events, okay? Or we want to say it's the technology that was available for us then. And I'm not disagreeing with some of those things, okay? But listen to that word. And and what I would like to say is I think that there are things that we each have to go through in the journey of life. And when we're 20, there's some things that we have to go through so that we can experience and kind of mature as human beings in an organizational way, but also in a personal way. And we can point to all of that and say, you know, there's something like wrong with them as humans, or we can say, this is just the journey that they're on. And I don't think that journey is any different than you get married, there's a journey. You decide to have children, there's a journey. There's there's all of these stages in life where we have to learn some new things, and we don't learn them until we go through them. And so are we really looking at these generations and and labeling them in this way that is so negative when in fact it's just life. They have to walk some steps in order to get to the next stage of life. That is the conclusion that Tammy Rogers, without science and without all that stuff, right? This is my life experience. I love all the enthusiasm and excitement of the 20-something that's coming into the workforce. We have a couple that have joined our organization. I love them. And oh gosh, you know, there's stuff that they don't know yet, and they want it now. And it's not, I want it now because I'm a bad human being, it's because they want it now, and that's not any different than when I was 22 and 23 and 24. I was that person.

Scott 11:38

I think we're saying generally the same thing. In my mind, I that to me, I would define as that is just desire and expectation and experience differences. Yeah, of course, these things in our world that have shaped us, right? Whether that's 9-11, whether that and and to me, I think you can talk about these general things over art. I mean, yes, I can remember 9-11 very distinctly, right? Josh was four, three and a half. Okay, and Ben was not born yet. Beth was pregnant with Ben. Wow. And we're like, we're having conversations about like what is it gonna be like raising a child in this, like, what's the world now? And we're raising a child, and I can remember there was a time period where we're like, turn off the fing news, like we can't hear this anymore. Because like Josh was asking, like, why did those bad people do that? Like, he's asking all these inquisitive questions because like to his his mind is like that doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone do that? Right, and and so you think about, yeah, that makes an impression on people. To me, it's at the end of the day, we have we have these life experiences, we have you know, all of these things. I still believe that the issue at the end of the day is how do you bring these groups together, have some candid conversations about, hey, this works for me, this doesn't work for me. And we just like in my mind, I'm thinking about so many of our clients where they just don't go and have the conversation. Yeah. And then they're just you know, they're pissed at each other, or they're like, oh, they're not any good. I think we should fire that person. Like, who's gone and had any kind of conversation with that individual?

Talk It Out And Look For Right

Tammy 13:39

Well, and the piece about that, right? I think you're right, it's having the conversation, it's also looking for what's right. So I think one of the things that we have to do as an organization is recognize that instead of looking for what's wrong, okay, so instead of saying things like we're entitled, they don't have a work ethic, all those things, or let's go to the other side. Those old folks don't understand technology, they can't learn new things. It's both sides that we're pointing our fingers. We as an organization have to say, what's right about these folks? So, what's right about our young people? They're excited, they're energized, they want to be and do more. We should tap into that instead of saying, sorry, you can't. We have to help them say, hey, let's learn some of these things step by step and step, right? Same thing with our folks at the other end. Like, hey, there's we're saying they can't learn technology. Yes, they can, right? It's just they're gonna come at it differently and we're gonna see change resistance. Why? Because I've done it another way for a long time. That doesn't make me a bad human being. It means that we need to work with someone to help them get through those types of things. So instead of saying what's wrong, right, what's great about someone who's been around a long time? Historical context. Historical context helps us make better decisions. Drive and energy and the enthusiasm and believe we can help us to continue to innovate. Put those two things together. We are better. So why not look for what's right and then have the tough conversations? Hey, Tammy Rogers, you boomer, you need to figure out this technology because it's gonna help you. And hey, young person who just came out of college and has joined an organization. We need to give you some fundamentals so that you actually are gonna be ready for that next step. And we'll give it to you, right? We're going to work with you, mentor, grow. It's our job to help you in that particular spot. And as you learn these things, you will be ready for the next and the next and the next. So it's the conversations as well as looking for what's right with someone instead of what's wrong.

Scott 15:56

Yeah. And it's also, I like I have a responsibility to talk about it with that person. I also have a responsibility to like to hear them and to look at this. Because I I would also say, hey, yeah, you have to demonstrate a little more than your than your job responsibility. Yeah, I also can see the other side. I'm paid for this, for these things, right? And I'm giving this. And yeah, there is, there are a number of organizations out there that have a history of taking taking taking advantage, taking advantage of that.

Karman 16:36

So, you know, there Sally Parton has sung about that.

Scott 16:40

Yes, yeah, exactly. And there's and she's in a movie where she ties up her boss.

Tammy 16:47

That actually is like the dream of many of us.

Scott 16:51

So like to me, it's like how how are you looking at it and remaining open-minded to look for, I love what you said, like look for what look for what's right, and then what can we do? I think from an organization, organizations have to recognize the landscape is shifting.

Rethinking Hours, Benefits, And Outcomes

Scott 17:10

And so, what are you doing to attract and retain in this world? If the organization is run by boomers or run by Gen Xers, but the vast majority of people are millennials and the you know, the I generation, etc., how are you managing benefits and the things that are gonna attract them and manage that?

Tammy 17:35

This is one of my favorite conversations because of course most people are not gonna come to me and bitch about boomers, right? Because I am one, so you know, they'll they'll stay away from that, but they will absolutely bitch about these younger generations. And my question to them is like, hey, what are you gonna do? This is the only workforce you have. Let's just face reality. Boomers are going to leave, and soon Gen Xers are going to leave. You're gonna lose those two generations. What you have left is your workforce. And if you're saying you all suck because all of those negative phrases and stuff that you're using, you are not going to have a workforce that is gonna work for you. So why don't you figure out how to make your organization attractive to that group of people and to actually tap into the best of them? And everybody stares at me when I say that. But things like this, we do have a generation that is not saying I want to work 60 hours a week. Okay. Why do we actually even have a work week that's 40 hours? Like, how did that magically become the number? And could we design an organization for groups of people who wanted to work 20 to 30 hours a week? Now I know that's radical. Okay, but imagine if you could actually have like you could be open, you could even be retail, all that kind of stuff, but work out your scheduling so that people only work 32 hours a week or 30 hours a week. Like, could we do that? And the answer is yes. Okay. Does it take work and effort and energy? Sure. Does it mean shifting things? But could you get the best and the brightest because you offer a reasonable salary for 30 hours? Now, I'm not saying even a 40-hour salary, make it a 30-hour salary, but I can tell you, I know people that'd be like, I want that. Yep. Okay. And if you could get an amazing group of people who would work for you and you could work that schedule out and they all work 30 hours, why would we be worried about this stuff?

Scott 19:51

I'm gonna be super crazy here. Why are we talking hours at all?

Tammy 19:56

Oh, I don't disagree with you in that spot at all. Okay, okay.

Scott 20:01

Here, here, here are your deliverables, here are your outcomes. If you can accomplish those, you know, and and the value to the organization for those deliverables and those outcomes is this. If you can deliver that in 10 hours a week, eh.

Tammy 20:19

Now that works in a place that we don't have to worry about customers, yes, yeah.

Scott 20:25

So that's the now the other side of that is yeah, if or work on teams, I mean, or teamwork is becomes yeah, right?

Tammy 20:35

Yeah, so there are places and spaces, Scott. And by the way, we kind of run our organization this way. Now we were like, hey, you do have customer responsibilities, and you have to be where the customer needs you to be, doing what the customer needs you to do, right? That's part of our stuff. But you and I don't ask our staff how many hours they work, we don't care. Now, I know that that doesn't work for every organization. We're very fortunate in the kind of work that we do in that space, but outcomes versus hours, if that's something that your organization can do, there's a huge advantage to that, right?

Scott 21:16

And when peep for me, when people are like, Well, but you don't understand, I'm I'm a nurse, it's not fair. Who chose to be a nurse? I didn't make that choice for you, you made that choice, correct. So if you want this other thing, like what are you willing to give up? And that to me is like, hey, like there is this entitlement kind of feel like, well, I I deserve this. Well, no, actually, not necessarily.

Tammy 21:49

You might think you deserve it, and nurses to me are a perfect example. And if we actually put that in a hospital setting, okay. A hospital setting is 24-7. There is no time that we get to close the doors. We are open every day of the year, okay, 24 hours a day. We can staff a hospital and not have to work a 40-hour work week for sure. Okay. And people kind of stare at me and they're like, I'm thinking, no, guys, this is actually extremely doable. And in this space, right, we can allow this amazing place. And you and I, we've talked about this. Work like balance is not our gig. Okay. But there are a lot of people who are like, I only want to work three days a week. We can make that happen. We've seen it happen in manufacturing, we've seen it happen in healthcare. Where there are places and spaces in the world where we can actually create a 30-hour, sometimes even a 24-hour work week. And people love that schedule. And if that's what our new generations want, why not be the company that says that's how we work?

Scheduling Examples And The Leadership Test

Scott 23:05

I'm laughing because my mom was a nurse for 42 years. Almost that entire time, she worked part-time, and she basically had a half-time job. And there was someone else who was the other half, and they like they had rule like, hey, you have to have this many shifts in the pay period, and you had to, I mean, essentially, you worked every other year, you work certain holidays. So we knew this year, like that was that seemed to be the fairest way to do it this year. You know, if you had Christmas off last year, you're probably working Christmas this year. Yeah. And then you could trade, right? If like I could go to Karman and say, Hey, Karman, I got this thing going on. Can I work Easter and Thanksgiving for you? Would you work Christmas for me? Like you could you could absolutely do that. And you knew your schedule way out.

Tammy 24:00

And and you figured it out, right? Yeah. And and isn't it interesting that instead of instead of saying you aren't doing it right, what you want isn't okay. How about if we just problem solved it? And I think in the end, right, this generational thing, it's problem solving. How can we have the conversations? How can we do things to actually meet the needs of the folks who say, This is what I want in my world, and not give this negative connotation where we're telling everybody that they're doing it wrong? How about what could we do instead of being judgmental? And Scott, that's really where you started. Yeah, we're all judgmental jerks. Okay. And I'm okay with having that judgment. What I love is saying, that's my judgment, and where do I go next? How can I solve this problem? And instead of carrying that judgment forward, figuring out how to get past my initial reaction to solve the problems of the organization. And in the end, that's what we hire leaders to do.