The WOFOYO Podcast
The WOFOYO Podcast
God never intended His glory to ride on a cart.
What happens when we try to carry God's glory our way instead of His? The biblical account of King David's attempt to transport the Ark of the Covenant reveals profound truths about modern ministry approaches. David initially chose convenience—placing the sacred ark on an ox-drawn cart—which led to disaster when Uzzah was struck dead for touching it. The lesson? God's presence was never meant to be automated or institutionalized, but carried by consecrated individuals working in harmony.
When David finally succeeded, the priests carried the ark barefoot while wearing only simple linen ephods. This striking minimalism speaks volumes—vulnerability before God, direct connection with the journey, and humility in service. Every stone felt underfoot reminded them of their sacred responsibility. Meanwhile, David's wife Michal despised his undignified worship, and her barrenness afterward symbolizes the spiritual fruitlessness that comes from resenting others' authentic expressions of faith.
C-Dub and Bones challenge listeners to examine how we've complicated Christianity with structures and systems originating centuries after the apostolic era. They vulnerably share their own painful "breaches" when pride and wrong methodologies led to spiritual consequences. Most provocatively, they contrast the mobile tabernacle with Solomon's fixed temple, suggesting God may prefer movement and adaptability in our spiritual journey rather than rigid institutions.
Are we at war or merely waiting for heaven? The episode concludes with a wake-up call that all believers are called to ministry and discipleship, not just professional clergy. Like David learning to move six paces before stopping to sacrifice, we must proceed carefully but deliberately in our spiritual calling. Perhaps their most liberating insight? "We don't need a temple; we just need a tent"—authentic relationship with Jesus requires far less infrastructure than we've been led to believe.
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This episode of the WoeFoYoke podcast has been brought to you by Delilah's Full Service Hair Salon and Spa. You've been out there all day doing the Lord's work and giving it all you got. Every time you go out to the field it seems like you're the last man standing. Your old lady can't keep her mouth shut and tells everything you talk about to her folks. You know sometimes that anointing can get heavy and you feel like you got the weight of the world on your shoulders. That's when you need to come on down to Delilah's. She knows just how to put you at ease and has multiple treatments designed to help you let your guard down and just be you. This month's special is half off dreadlocks with a straight razor shave and steam towel fresh out of the hot water. You just got yourself in. You don't have to be strong all the time, boys. Let Delilah take care of you and you'll be done in before you know it. Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of the Wofo? Yo podcast. With C Dubbin' Bones, we're getting over a little technical difficulties and now we're going to read you a Bible story. We're going to get in the word with you. 2 Samuel, chapter 6.
Speaker 1:Now David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel 30,000 and David departed from Baal, judah, with all the people who were with him, to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name, the very name of the Lord of armies, who is enthroned above the cherubim. They had mounted the ark of God on a new cart and moved it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill, and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were leading the new cart. So they brought it with the ark of God from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill, and Ahio was walking ahead of the ark. Meanwhile, david and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord with all kinds of instruments made of juniper wood and with lyres, harps, tambourines, cassonets and cymbals. But when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, uzzah reached out toward the ark of God and took hold of it, because the oxen nearly overturned it and the anger of the Lord burned against Uzzah and God struck him down there for his irreverence and he died there by the ark of God. Then David became angry because of the Lord's outburst against Uzzah, and that place has been called Perez Uzzah to this day, just so you know Perez Uzzah literally means a breach. It blew a hole in him. So David was afraid of the Lord that day and he said how could the ark of the Lord come to me? And David was unwilling to move the ark of the Lord into the city of David with him. But David took it aside to the house of Obed-Edom the Gittite.
Speaker 1:The ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obed-Edom the Gittite for three months and Now it was reported to King David saying the Lord has blessed the house of Obed-Edom and all that belongs to him on account of the ark of God. So David went and bought the ark of God up from the house of Obed-Edom to the city of David with joy. And so it was that when those carrying the ark marched six paces, he sacrificed an ox and a fattened steer and David was dancing before the Lord with all his strength and David was wearing a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with joyful shouting and the sound of the trumpet. Then it happened, as the ark of the Lord was coming into the city, that Michal, daughter of Saul, looked down through the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord and she was contemptuous of him in her heart. Now they brought the ark of the Lord and set it in its place, inside the tent which David had pitched for it. And David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord. When David had finished offering the burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of armies, also in King James, referred to as the Lord of hosts. Further, he distributed to all the people, to all the multitude of Israel, both the men and women, a cake of bread, one of dates and one of raisins to each one. Then all the people left, each to his house.
Speaker 1:But when David returned to bless his own household, michal, the daughter of Saul, came out to meet David and said how the king of Israel dignified himself today. For he exposed himself today in the sight of his servants, female slaves, as one of the rabble shamelessly exposes himself. But David said to Michal I was before the Lord, who preferred me to your father and to all his house, to appoint me as a ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel. So I will celebrate before the Lord, and I might demean myself even more than this and be lowly in my own sight, but with the female slaves of whom you've spoken. With them I'm to be held in honor, and Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child to the day of her death.
Speaker 1:A lot of things going on. I want to also go to just two more verses, do a little bit of New Testament here. Matthew 13, verses 1 and 2. As he was going out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him this is Jesus, teacher. Look what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings. And Jesus said to him Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down. He's talking about the temple, which will not be torn down, just talking about the temple.
Speaker 1:So, before we get back into 2 Samuel and some of the significance of that, because that thing's loaded right there, people are anointed to carry the ark. The vehicle is not anointed to carry the ark. You mentioned something, bones, in our episode about what's in your ark, that I never thought about when we were talking about the staff or the staves, which are sticks, and we were talking about authority. You just brought out that that's what was used to carry the Ark of the Covenant, which represents the throne of God, the glory of God, the mercy of God, but also the power and judgment of God, if handled wrongly which we see with Uzzah and the other gentleman there.
Speaker 2:There's so much to bring out there in 2 Samuel and even there in Matthew as well, with recall, david's wife. You see what kind of happens there when a person resents you, when a person resents you for walking in your anointing, for walking out your gifting. There we see McCall was barren. She didn't have any babies, she didn't have any fruit, she didn't produce fruit or offspring. The same thing happens to us. When we start to resent other folks for walking out their gifting, we become spiritually barren. So yeah, there's so much going on there that we'll try to unpack as we go through this.
Speaker 1:You and I have both been checking out something called House of David on Amazon Prime and there's some liberty taken, but so far it's been nothing that contradicts Scripture. It gives a little bit of insight into some possible meanings and some possible inferences in the biblical text, but what is Scripture is pretty word on word. You know it's right on Because I found myself going okay, I know this, I know this verse, I know how this plays out, I know the dialogue, I've read it enough and they'll give you just enough space to make you make you think that, oh, they're going to leave that part out. Yeah, nope, they just build up to it and you're like doggone, they did it like that.
Speaker 2:Pretty up to and you're like doggone. They did it like that Pretty good. They do a really good job of kind of filling in the spaces, if you would, and I'm kind of a visual learner so it helps me and it sticks with me when I can see that and have that visual cue to go with it. So I like it. It turned out to be pretty good, pretty good programming.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about, since we're talking about the staves, we're talking about the staffs. Priest, levites were meant to carry the ark. It was not meant to be put on a cart. It was not meant to be put on a cart. It was not meant to be put on something pulled by beast of burden. It is not meant to be burdensome per se. That said, there's a weight to it, there's a weight to it, there's uh, there's a price.
Speaker 1:The way the ark of the covenant was set up is you had the two staves, you had authority, had to be carried by priest, which you know. A lot of times we talk about the two main things that jesus is revealed as, because everybody's, oh, he's a prophet, but the main revelation of jesus is as king and priest. So you have two different kinds of authority that are carrying the ark right there. It's carried by priest, which the whole thing is. After that incident with Uzzah, I'm going well, to be wearing your kingly garb, the Levites would wear a white. To be wearing your kingly garb, the Levites would wear a white ephod, maybe a little bit more. The priest was more elaborate. But the actual Levites, their relatives, they would have wore a white ephod. So David dancing in his white ephod, which is just a white light robe. He's actually showing his humility before the Lord in doing that, rather than coming up as I'm the king because they had seen what happened with that.
Speaker 2:Right, he's humbling himself. Yeah, he's showing himself as a as a lesser, lesser title, as a person, lesser in position than what he actually is the king.
Speaker 1:so, yeah, there is some humility there, for sure and I know we've touched on several of these other things. You know you had four handles and I've talked before where we had an episode or two where we were talking about different supernatural occurrences that you and I had had, and I remember one of them was a dream, just super realistic, where I was helping to carry the Ark of the Covenant and I was on the back right carrying that thing and I saw an Uzzah-type situation happen during that. But the one thing is, when you're carrying the Ark, you cannot carry it yourself Right. The Ark. You cannot carry it yourself.
Speaker 1:That anointing that God has put on you, that glory as well as the weight that comes with it, that glory, that anointing. That mission is not just for you, it's not about you. You have a job to do, you have a relationship that you need to maintain, but it's not just you and the Lord. To get to where God wants you to go if you're carrying his glory, there's others you're going to have to cooperate with that are carrying that same glory. And that's humbling for me, because I want to be the guy that thinks I'd just rather do it and know that it's going to be done right. The only trouble is by myself. I'm not capable of doing it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very easy trap to fall in. Our pride and ego can bring us to a point where we want to do it ourselves for a couple of reasons, and some false humility will creep in here. False humility will tell us well, I want to do this because that way no one else has to. If I do this myself, then I don't have to bother anyone else. No one else is going to have to. I'm saving others from having to do it. That's where the false humility kind of sneaks in and and, uh, and and get you. Um, but in reality what's happening is your pie, your pride's being puffed up and says yeah, you're, you want to do it, so you get all the glory. Um, so it's just you doing it, so that you know that it's being done right. Um, you see the cart.
Speaker 2:The cart represented, uh, kind of represented something. See, there's God's way to do it and that is having the Levites carry it. They're working together and if you imagine trying to carry something like that, you'd have to be in step with each other. If you weren't in step with each other, then that ark would wobble, it would bounce up against each other. It would be horrible. But once the Levites got in step with each other, then that ark leveled out and became easier to carry. But the cart represented man's way of saying I got an easier way to do this. And that's what we see in ministry so often is I got an easier way, I got a better way. And we see from Uzzah and his buddy, his cohort, that it's usually the easy way that gets people hurt. It's not God's way that does, it's man's way. It's the easy way out that gets people hurt. And then we have to repent and go back and do it God's way. So Descartes represents man's quote unquote easier way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think when I read that, you know that's ministry, that's modern ministry, it's not ministry as ordained by God to carry the ark. And that's kind of what we're going to get into. But we're going to talk about the differences between the carrying of the ark versus putting it on a cart.
Speaker 2:Carrying of the ark versus moving the ark, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And maybe even get into a couple other things, because when you and I began discussing things over 20 years ago, I had this idea and I've been told I'm right. I've been told I'm wrong whenever I bring this up to other Christians and other ministers who are well-learned and well-studied and, again, a lot of these guys hear from the Lord. So I have my opinion. That's what it is, but it's my opinion that the tabernacle was much better than the temple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 1:And I say that you know the tabernacle could be destroyed too, that you know the tabernacle could be destroyed too, as Peter talks about. You know our earthly tabernacle. It will be destroyed when they put it in the temple. Now you have everything. Has to come to it. This is one place. Here's where we got to go and it's. Come to church, come to church. Come's where we got to go. Come to church, come to church. Come to church. Come to church and you can have the glory there, man, it can be established. That's still the most fought over piece of land and contested piece of land on planet Earth is Temple Mount. A contested piece of land on planet earth is temple mount. Right, and there's something to be said for that.
Speaker 1:But the will of god originally was to carry that have, that ark and that tabernacle and everything that happens with that, all the other utensils, all the other instruments of the tabernacle. That meant worship and sacrifice. It was meant to go out wherever the Spirit of God led, and so if you were going to carry this Ark, you had to be properly clothed a linen ephod. If you're doing that, you're somewhat exposed. You're not armored up. There's a level of vulnerability in that. The other thing is you're barefoot. So with all the rocky soil and terrain that isn't necessarily welcoming, everybody else could wear sandals, and we know they did, because when they were going through the wilderness it records that their clothes nor their sandals wore out. So they were wearing that, but the Levites were not. The Levites were barefoot when they carried the ark. They put their feet in the water and when they crossed the Jordan, as soon as their toes hit the water it parts, just like the Red Sea.
Speaker 1:But I'm looking at this and being in barefoot you know, being in a linen ephod and being barefoot speaks to a level of vulnerability. You're not putting the protection definitely between you and the Lord, but also you're vulnerable to other people and you've got to trust. The glory of the Lord is what protects you. The other thing is being barefoot means you're in touch. You don't have that level of separation, that detachment, if you will, between you and the earth or you and what's going on with the world. You're feeling every little barb, whether the rock is smooth, everything that can make somebody uncomfortable in their walk. It makes you just a little bit more uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:And the heat, the heat of the ground, uh-huh, what I see there is minimalism. Definitely, there's not a lot that's required to walk with God. You don't need a whole lot. All you need is the bare minimums. And the linen ephod is white and represents his righteousness, which we have. That through Christ, yeah, okay, and that's basically about it. That's about the only piece of clothing you got on is that linen Christ, yeah, okay, and that's basically about it. That's about the only piece of clothing you got on is that linen ephod. So all we need to walk with the Lord is his righteousness, which is Jesus.
Speaker 2:So you know, there's a reason that God puts all that imagery out there, I think so that we can look back on it, because our flesh wants to heap stuff up on ourselves. Our flesh wants to get us to the point where we have to go to church in our Sunday best, which is not a bad thing. If you wear a suit to church, I'm not knocking it, I'm not saying you can't bad thing. If you wear a suit to church, I'm not knocking, it's not saying you can't, um. But if that suit becomes an idol to you, you know if it, if it comes to the point where you can't go to church because your suit's not clean, then yeah, that's an issue. Um so, and there are people who kind of do get to that point where, uh, church is more about showing up and showing off than it is, you know, fellowship and worship. So I like that minimalist kind of design that the Lord's showing us there.
Speaker 1:I think the very fact that the chapter concludes with David at verse 17, fact that the chapter concludes with David at verse 17, as they bring it in, david sets up the tabernacle of David, which is the ark they say a priest, and there was probably a place for offering, but it's, it's the arc in a tent and there are some that say you could see through the tent so you can see the silhouette of the arc which could have killed you, and David goes it kills me, it kills me and that's how he worshiped.
Speaker 1:So you see this minimalist idea in, after trying man not to speak, in trying to do it the automated way, and trying to do it the automated way, and trying to do it the ministry way, the way you think it should be done, the way it'd be easier to do, you get to the point where it's just you and God. This is, this is the same concept that you have with Elijah and the prophets of Baal going back to the cave and getting to see all the dramatic stuff. The Lord might have caused it, but the essence of the Lord, the heart of the Lord, wasn't really in it, right?
Speaker 2:Right, I got a friend of mine that always reminds me, lord, the heart of the Lord wasn't really in it, right, right, I got a friend of mine that always, always reminds me. He says, man, we, we do a very good job of making this thing with God very hard when it's really not. It's really not, it's actually very, very simple If we'll just get out of our way and let God do his thing. Yeah, so yeah, minimalism not a bad thing when it comes to your walk with the Lord.
Speaker 1:If you put the ark on a cart.
Speaker 2:The ark on a cart.
Speaker 1:Man, there's some Dr Se Ark on a cart. Man, there's some Dr Seuss stuff right there. If you put the Ark on the cart, you have it being pulled by oxen. And you know who tried to put the Ark on a cart pulled by oxen was the Philistines. They're like here Because in their presence it was no good to them, because they were irreverent and it caused plagues. It caused, uh, m rods, the King James, the hemorrhoids and uh, plagues of mice and all this stuff. And they just put it on a cart pulled by oxen and it ends up going over to the Benadabs, right, that's how it got there, so they get it. That's the way they did it before, but it wasn't the way that the Lord prescribed. And we find ourselves doing that. Like you mentioned so often, this is the only way we've been known to do ministry. You know, is this very? It still all stems from, you know, the way Catholicism did it for years and years and years, and then we called ourselves Protestant, but we never boiled it down to what all have we added?
Speaker 2:that's unnecessary think you could find a pastor today that hasn't done any kind of study that would disagree with the statement that, uh, that our church system that we have here in america began in about the third or fourth century. That's where it all goes back to it. It doesn't go back to first century, it doesn't go back to the times of the apostles, it goes back to about the third or fourth century. That's as far back as it goes. And what always fascinates me is when I bring up that point to any type of church leader, whether it's a pastor, sunday school teacher, anything like that I get the agreeance.
Speaker 2:But no one is ever willing to change it. No one wants to offer change, no one wants to make a change. It's like no one. Even the concept of change is just, it's foreign. It's just like, well, this is what we got, this is what we've been dealt. So here we are. I'm not happy with that. I just can't buy that and I don't know the answer. Don't get me wrong, I don't know the answer. I'm better at knowing the problems than I am knowing the answers. But it always fascinates me that we can agree we can go back to about the third or fourth century, but we can't go back any further than that. For some reason, nobody wants to challenge that, nobody wants to fight it.
Speaker 1:Well, if you were to ask somebody, if you were to ask somebody, okay, god's called you to do a minute. You know, he's called you to minister to people, he's called you into ministry Sooner or later. And you say what are you going to do? Well, I need to start looking for a building, you need to get a 501c3 thing, Need to do this, need to do that, need to do this and all this stuff and make sure I'm ordained.
Speaker 2:I probably need to go to Bible college and do this and do that, and there's where we go astray. That's our cart. That's the cart Because God didn't tell us to do any of that. God didn't tell us to go get ordained God's already ordained us. God didn't tell us to go get a 501c3 tax exemption from US government. God didn't tell us to go do this. God called us into ministry. Hell. He's called everybody into ministry. He's called everyone into making disciples. So there's no one that's exempt from that. But I digress.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the point though, because you look, a threshing floor is where things get rough. I see this thing with Ohio he's on the front end and Uza's on the back end, and they're not pulling the cart. The ox were pulling the cart, and so. So there's this mindset that if I'm going to minister like kind of like what we do with churches there's this mindset that if I'm in ministry, all I got to do is lead this thing and it'll pull itself. Let everybody else bear the burden.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just getting ready to ask what were they even doing? They were just walking beside the cart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, leading it. Now the thing is, if you're responsive, if you're barefoot and if you're carrying the ark along with those you're supposed to carry it with, if you're carrying the anointing of God, then it's up to you to be responsive to where the ark wants to go, to, where the Spirit of God is directing things, rather than you try and lead a vehicle that the thing's on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the idea here also is that the weight of the ark as the four of you carry it, the terrain that you're walking across barefoot, all those things, all those environmental factors are going to be causing enough discomfort to keep your mind occupied enough that you're not worried about anything else. You're not concerned about anything else other than staying connected with God, because he is the one that is guiding everything. He is the one that is that is that is guiding everything. He is the one that's leading Um, and we see that with with Christians today, who that who are, who are connected, plugged in that's the buzzword um who are kind of that way. We're actually, they're really that way, um, but they're shouldering burdens, they're connected and plugged into their communities and all these things, and they're not worried about the outside world, they're not worried about all the other factors, they're more concerned about how God's leading them. Yeah, and then all the other things are panning out because of that. So, very much so. That's kind of what I see going on with the Levites.
Speaker 1:And you alluded to this, but rather than when you were talking about. Everybody had to be in step. It requires working together, rather than one person trying to lead it and the other person's the helper. It requires all four of those priests had to work together. They all had to be on the same level. They all had to communicate effectively. There was no one that could go and say I'm going to do my own thing, I'm more anointed than the rest of you three.
Speaker 2:Could you imagine? I can remember as a combat medic, one of the things that we did was litter drills. Yep, we did a lot of litter drills and you really had to get your communication down, pat. You wanted communication down. You wanted your litter bearers placed accordingly, according to height and whatnot. Bearers placed accordingly according to height and whatnot, so that the load was evened out across everybody. But you had to communicate.
Speaker 2:When you lift the litter, you had to communicate when you lowered the litter. You had to do all these things to keep everything nice and level, to keep your patient nice and level and everything. Could you imagine if the Levites didn't communicate, if they didn't have their stuff together and the two guys up front lowered the arc sooner than the guys in the back and the lid slid off that thing? Oh, my goodness, man, you talk about a bad day. So, yeah, they all had to work together, they had to be in communication with each other and I'm sure that after a certain point it all became second nature to them and they could pretty much feel each other's presence and feel each other's movements.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it wasn't like that in the very beginning? Probably not. It would definitely take people that are in tune with the Spirit of God to do that, you know. That's the other thing that brings to mind something that I remember Just one of them little sayings that the Lord told me over 20 years ago, and I remember, man, benny Hinn was a big thing, you know, and I had a legitimate encounter with the Holy Spirit that unlocked some giftings at a Benny Hinn crusade, and it wasn't when everybody else was going, oh, falling out and all that stuff, and they're, you know, touch and you know, half the stadium, you know, did their thing with that.
Speaker 1:But, man, everybody falling out was in style. It was probably not the most spiritual word to use, and I've had the power of God hit me and it knocked me down. I've had it hit me right in my abs, double me over, okay, so I'm not poo-pooing that, but at the same time I had the Lord speak a word to me that was corrective for me, and I haven't been too many times. I fell out after that and it was simply this I've called you to stand in my presence, called you to stand in my presence, and it was, and it wasn't until 2020 that somebody confirmed that, and the reason is yes, have your experience with the Lord.
Speaker 1:Yes, humble yourself before the Lord. If he needs to burn something out of you, as they would say, he's getting rid of the dross. If he needs to do a work in you and that knocks you to the floor, man, let it happen. However, there comes a time when it's time to minister, where for you to be effective and do what you've been time to minister where for you to be effective and do what you've been called to do, you actually have to stand in the presence of God, and it wasn't going to get any stronger than the Shekinah glory of God that rested upon the Ark of the Covenant. So, as you said, when you're first starting out, who knows how hard that thing was first starting out, but eventually you get there.
Speaker 2:Well, think about it. They were coming out of Egypt, had been slaves, probably malnourished, not very strong, so I imagine that bearing the ark in the beginning was probably very difficult, but I'm sure they got stronger as they went on. I like to think that's how we are today with our relationship with Jesus. Is that in the beginning it can be difficult? I like to think that's how we are today with our relationship with Jesus. Is that in the beginning it can be difficult, it can be burdensome at times. We have to remind ourselves that that's not His intent, to be burdensome. But the flesh is weak, even though the Spirit is willing. But as we rely on Him, as we depend on him and grow in him, then maybe that's supposed to even out a little bit and get a little bit easier to do. I don't know, but that's just kind of the picture that I see there, the children of Israel.
Speaker 1:The picture that I see there, the children of Israel, one of the other things about putting a cart and having it driven basically pulled by oxen and somebody leading and somebody following. Oxen are messy, you know, anybody's been around cows. Cows just look at you and crap on the ground or whiz right on the ground and all that. And so you have this manifestation, this representation of God's throne, and you've got the thing pulling it, it crapping and pissing everywhere and it is recording people like well, god wouldn't be offended by it.
Speaker 1:God made it a law in Israel while they were going throughout the wilderness, that you had to dig cat holes outside the camp, get you a tool, got to do your business, dig a hole, cover it up. And it said for the Lord, your God, walks throughout the camp. You know, and you and I both laughed at it, the thought of you know, and you and I both laughed at it, the thought of you know what happens the, the idea of stepping in some doodoo. You know, well, it says it bring wrath. So you know it would have ticked them off. But yet you have it being pulled by messy animals who are urinating and defecating and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:And uh, the idea there is yeah, he, you know he is sensitive to that. I mean, he, he does think about things like that, um, you know, but uh, I think you basically got. You got God's presence in the midst of the crap. You know, that's kind of the deal, and that's not to say that you know we don't have our own stuff, but maybe we should be keeping, you know, the worldly stuff away. You know, out of that, you know, there's some sanctification that goes along with this, with this ride with Jesus, if you would, that we need to remind ourselves not to, not to, you know, not to be tracking that mess in.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it bears a question, though, if the oxen were producing that as they're, as they're pulling the cart. As they're pulling the cart is the way we're doing ministry, producing some things that are offensive to God.
Speaker 2:If the cart is a representation of ministry today, then yeah, there's a good chance of that. Yeah, so I'm to think about two on that for a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the other things I think about this was man, I found myself here because you have Uzzah. It causes the breach and David was afraid of the Lord that day, but also says he became angry because of the Lord's outburst against Uzzah. Called the place Perez Uzzah to this day. David was afraid of the Lord that day and he said how can the ark of the Lord come to me? A lot of people don't equate being angry and afraid. You go, oh, you can't be. But David had enough wisdom to go. We're not going to do this until we can do it right. And, man, that's a wilderness experience.
Speaker 1:Once again, I know you and I have both been to this thing where we were doing some things wrong and, granted, it didn't blow a hole in us, but we were doing some things wrong, had some wrong conceptions and needed to grow in our personal life as well as our relationship with the Lord and do some maturing there. But there was a time that we just had to set it down because the way we were doing it caused, because of our flaws and because of this idea that we had that this is how it's done and we were just hell-bent on pursuing that path. It was the Lord causing that breach to a degree in us. I know with me it included witnessing church splits. It probably did not help, but eventually, a divorce. You know these and I just remember thinking through that that whole time that here I am. You know I'm divorced, I don't have.
Speaker 1:I. There's this area of uncertainty when I'm going through all that and, man, I just started going back to church after a while and hearing all this, hearing from the Lord again and all these things, and here it comes and all I could think about was but God, what about all these words where you called me to minister, that'll breach you, that'll rip a hole in you, what it did eventually, after I went and got stupid for a hot minute because the old screw it button, I pushed it head on but at the same time the Lord let me know hey, you've got some slack, don't wear it out. And did that a couple times. And next thing, you know, here I am and that whole thing of doing it wrong and being able to realize that you doing it wrong is what caused the breach your attitude and your pride and your arrogance and your being more willing to serve man in an institution and you letting that come before your relationship with God? That's what caused the breach.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes that anger is misdirected, because actually what we are is we're angry at ourselves, amen. We're angry at ourselves, but we take it out on God, which is okay. We'd rather find ourselves in the hands of a merciful God than we would anywhere else, so that's okay. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think God knows that. God understands that. Just be careful with the irreverence. But you know, a lot of times we get angry, just like David got angry, uh. But you know, a lot of times we get angry, just like David got angry. I'm sure David was angry with himself, uh, uh, a lot too, because you know he, I'm sure he felt some responsibility for, uh, uh, for those, uh, two deaths that occurred, um, I'm sure that, uh, he was angry at himself because he should have known better. Uh, you know all these, all these different things.
Speaker 2:We do that too. We get angry with ourselves, um, it usually takes a little bit of time for us to figure it out, to realize that that's actually who we're angry at, um, but we get there when we get there, um, and then that's usually when we start, that's usually when we start. That's usually when repentance starts. We start repenting, we start reworking this thing out. We start depending on God again, and then we see that there actually is a way that we can do this with the Lord and we start to move forward again that's been in charge.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing another thing just looking at it. As we're talking about this, david's in charge of getting this thing out. He goes to Abinadab and it has his two sons, uza and Ohio. So guess who's responsible as a leader? They're doing what you told them to do and they're doing what you told them to do, and one of them gets killed because what you were telling them to do was not the right thing. And as people that have worked you and I both have worked in a high threat environment that burden of having somebody get hurt, following it with them, following your order and doing what you told them to do, that ain't a light thing, bud no, that's, that's not, that's not light, and I guess it has to go notify the the victim's family now.
Speaker 2:That's right, and I'm sure that's weighing on David too.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, just yeah. Well, one of the things I do like about this, and you'll appreciate this reference Once once they have all this, they bring it to the house of Obed-Edom for three months, and the Lord blessed Obed-Edom and all his house. What did Obed-Edom even have to do? Let it alone, Don't screw with it, Don't mess with it, Don't let anybody else screw with it. And I say this if we were using the Villa Ridge International version. But it said David took the ark to the house of Gerald Malone and he was just blessed being Gerald.
Speaker 2:Not messing with it, not telling everybody to come over and check it out, just letting it ride. And I'll tell you what. That's. Not an easy place to be either, though, that place where you don't really have any further instruction, you're just kind of waiting, oh, you know. So, uh, obey, to eat them. You know that's that can be a difficult place to be. Just uh, hurry up and wait. So kudos to him, cause you know, the flesh wants to creep in and say, uh, don't you think we should be doing something? Uh, no, go offer a fatty calf or do something. Uh, you know, let's, let's move this thing along. That's just what we do.
Speaker 1:I'm sure Obed Edom was reverent, but again it sat there.
Speaker 2:It sat there.
Speaker 1:It sat there until he figured out how to do it right. And there is something to be said about everything that you just said about learning how to be content. If you're training people for battle and they don't know how to wait and they just want to rush out and fight everything head on, that makes for bad soldiers, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my Papa George reminds me of him a little bit here. I'd find something on the farm as a kid, you know, and I didn't want to do this with it or do that with it. He'd always tell me oh well, now there ain't really no reason for us to do anything with that. It's been sitting right there and we'll just leave it right there. It ain't going nowhere. He was very good at letting things ride, so you know, sometimes you just need to let it sit right there.
Speaker 1:if you're an ambush or I know because we've talked about you've been on stakeouts before and if you know an investigation is going on. If you got some idiot just runs out in the middle and tries to take everything on, it just ruins everything. You know if you got an investigation, if you got a stakeout, where'd Larry go? He just ran into the house. Good way for Larry to get killed house.
Speaker 2:Good way for Larry to get killed. You've got to be smarter than your enemy. I think the first step in that is to realize the fact that you are at war. There is conflict here. I bring that full circle at war, there is conflict here, and so I bring that full circle with this as Christians, we are at war. There is spiritual warfare going on. So we have to be guarded in our steps, the steps that we take, the decisions that we make, the financial decisions, the relationship decisions.
Speaker 2:Every decision that we make has the financial decisions, the relationship decisions. Every decision that we make has to have some forethought to it and some prayer to it, or else we'll we'll step right out, you know, in the kill circle, in the kill box, uh, without even knowing it. Um, because we forget that we are in fact at war with an enemy that wants to hurt us. So, like I said, you've got to be smarter than your enemy. But you've got to also realize first that you're actually at war with something A lot of Christians aren't doing, that A lot of Christians are in love with salvation. We're in love with getting out of hell and going into heaven. That's a good thing, but anything past that we're really just kind of walking in the white and don't realize that we're actually walking on a battlefield. We're just kind of walking through this world waiting for Jesus to come back, and that's really not what we're doing. We're supposed to be engaged in battle.
Speaker 1:We're so in love with salvation that the idea of discipleship seems foreign and or offensive, depending on the person or the institution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you mean? We're not discipling, I mean you're not discipling Like and like.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? We're not discipling. Well, I mean you're not discipling.
Speaker 2:Like we said earlier, you know we talk about ministry. Everyone's called into ministry. Everyone, um, not just your pastor, your preacher, your Sunday school teacher. Everyone, every Christian is called into ministry. Um, but that doesn't look like it when you look around you. It doesn't look like it. It certainly doesn't feel like it. So how do we nudge our brothers and sisters along without losing our own minds? You've got to do it in love, I reckon. But well, you got to lead, guide and direct them is what you got to do.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's a good thing to end up on. To finish it out, if we read how David eventually does it they go for a little bit. They go six paces bit, they go six paces and they stop. They give thanks, they sacrifice is also a memorial right. So they take it slow. Take it slow from the house of Obed-Edom To the Temple Mount. Very good, I like it. Take it slow, you don't have to make it happen super quick.
Speaker 1:I see all these people. I went to school with people I call friends and man God's called me to do this and called me to do that. And they don't want to hear it from me because I've already had that discussion. But it's all the trappings that everybody goes in and I've said my little piece and I've got to know I'm not meant to correct everybody and I got to trust that the Lord will bring all those folks out into relationship as well, especially especially if I've, if I, if I've said my little piece and going well, you might want to think about that, pray about that. It's not about me, they don't have to hear it from me, I'm sure somebody was saying that about us.
Speaker 2:I bet you so At one time. I know so. So we don't need to run out and build Solomon's Temple. Really, all we need is a tent. Yeah, solomon's.
Speaker 1:Temple. Really, all we need is a tent. Yeah, solomon's temple. Everybody had to come to the temple. Yeah, where the tabernacle? That was mobile, yeah, but the thing is what it eliminated through Solomon's temple. And you know, when that gets destroyed, it has to get relocated. Somehow. You don't see it moving until there is an apocryphal book that says that Jeremiah, who was a priest, led him to hide it in the caves of Jerusalem upon the king of Babylon moving in. So we think that once we've established our permanent thing, that the Lord's not going to move anymore, and I think that's an erroneous conclusion, because he's going to move when he wants to move, even if he has to destroy your temple to do it.
Speaker 2:They may have to destroy your cart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you won't give it up, it won't get destroyed, yep.
Speaker 2:So he may blow the wheels right off your cart. Be careful. But, like I said, we don't need a temple, we just need a tent. That's all you really need. Amen, have that relationship. Have a relationship, a tent, and Jesus' righteousness. That land of the unified, that's it.
Speaker 1:Amen, thanks for listening. We hope this challenges you and causes you to grow. You can always check us out at woefoyoorg or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or Audible, or check out our YouTube page. Remember, folks, if you're going to grow, you got to woefoyo. Get in the word for yourself.