The WOFOYO Podcast
The WOFOYO Podcast
Outside the Camp 2: Finding God's Movement in Unexpected Places
God is moving powerfully outside traditional church structures, calling believers to minister beyond institutional walls. We explore biblical examples of those who prophesied "outside the camp" and how Jesus defended people doing ministry without official approval.
• Examining Numbers 11 where Moses defended those prophesying outside the designated place
• Paralleling Mark 9 where Jesus supported those casting out demons in His name without following the disciples
• Observing the increasing phenomenon of people coming to faith outside traditional churches since 2020
• Noting high-profile examples like Russell Brand, Jordan Peterson, and Joe Rogan's growing spiritual openness
• Discussing how the pandemic exposed institutional weaknesses in many churches
• Addressing the discomfort and criticism faced by those ministering outside traditional structures
• Contrasting business-model church approaches with relationship-focused ministry
• Recognizing that spiritual maturity takes time, similar to Moses' 40 years of preparation
• Finding purpose in one-on-one ministry to people in crisis
• Celebrating that God is working through many different believers in unexpected places
#wofoyo https://wofoyo.org/
Hey everybody, welcome to a continuation of our previous episode outside the camp. This is part two. In our last episode, bones and I talked about Numbers 11 and how, when Moses laid hands on the elders, there was actually two that were prophesying outside the camp, and he thought that was a good thing. We also talked about Mark 9, where you had people casting out demons in the name of Jesus, and John wanted to stop them, and Jesus said nope, no one can cast out demons in my name and be against me. And then we talked about our experience as being those that prophesy outside the camp, so to speak, and what we're going to discuss in this upcoming episode is how we're seeing this become a more common phenomena, especially since 2020. So we're going to get right into the discussion. Woe fo yo Now. One of the reasons I'm bringing this up, though, is ever since 2020, which is about what time the Lord started talking to us in, about 2019. And you know next thing, you know man, 2020 hits, and he started talking to me about what he was accomplishing, and it's taking a little bit longer, but, man, it's holding up.
Speaker 1:There are so many people that are coming to faith in Christ Jesus without the camp and this is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes. One of the things that we need to be aware of is the fact that this is happening. When you see the Russell Brands of the world come to faith. When you see a Jordan Peterson all of a sudden start talking a lot about the Bible and the importance of the Bible, even though he might not be an evangelical and even though he might have some takes that you disagree on the fact that you have a world-renowned psychologist all of a sudden breaking down things in the Bible and doing a lot of it accurately for somebody who's not one of these spirit-filled tongue-talking believers and, granted, he does talk like a psychologist. Some of it can be hard to read, but it's accurate, a lot of it is accurate.
Speaker 1:Or if you have, like you mentioned, when Joe Rogan all of a sudden is starting to talk about the Bible and these things and he's like well, you know, look, look, what all the modernism got us. We're so screwed. You know, and I remember you were talking about, you know when? Um, all the dude that is not his real name, the real name is Chris, something, but Oliver Anthony music, oh yeah, when that guy was reading the all the dude. That is not his real name. Real name's chris, something, but oliver anthony music. Oh yeah, when that guy was reading the uh bible passages to him and joe rogan's jaw just kind of drops when joe rogan kind of makes fun of evolutionists uh in anti-creationalists, and talks about how it requires more faith.
Speaker 2:Um, to believe in the Big Bang occurred all because it wanted to occur and nothing made it occur and that's how the universe was created. Because that requires more faith than it does to believe in Jesus. And Joe Rogan said I'll stick to Jesus. That's phenomenal. So there is a movement through that sector of society where the Holy Spirit is moving. I jumped into church immediately when I got saved. I was in church twice on Sunday, once a, twice out the week and everything. And you know I bought into. You know you need to be in church Until I started reading and seeing and God started talking to me and said wait a minute, you don't need to be unless God has called you to. If that's where God has planted you, because he has a mission for you there, then do it and do it right.
Speaker 2:But when I started hearing so much talk from the pulpit and as it is in what, remember the Titans, attitude reflects leadership, attitude reflects leadership. When I hear so much talk from the pulpit bad-mouthing and belittling folks who don't go to church, well, that flows out of the pulpit and into the congregation, your congregants are talking about how bad people are for not coming to church and yada, yada, yada. That's backbiting, that's just as big a sin as committing murder, but we cast that one off to the side and we call that righteous judgment. But it's not. So. That's where I started opening my eyes, or God started opening my eyes a little bit and saying you know, you got to love people, you know, and there's, there's folks who need to be in the church, there's folks who are operating outside the church and just like we're seeing here in these passages that Jesus is saying don't mess with them, leave them alone, because I've got, I've got other foes, other flocks that you don't know about. So keep your mouth to yourself.
Speaker 1:I was listening to something as I was driving around earlier today, got off work and Sean Ryan was talking with Tucker Carlson basically giving his testimony, and around the same time as a lot of this other stuff's going on there. He is out in Sonoma and the Lord starts dealing with him and it wasn't a big church service and stuff, but here's a guy who's flawed and doing the best he can but still very, very open about his faith, flaws and all, and I think the Lord has been using that. I will also tell you this and this for as much as people know these celebrities or the people that have notoriety, it is happening all over the place for people that aren't known. And so you see this dynamic of the people that are quote unquote, without the camp that the Spirit of the Lord you know. The whole nation was called to be a kingdom of priests as far as Israel, and so are we. But I'm just seeing, I'm seeing co-workers seeing it, just other people that I met through different circles and you're just like man. The lord is really working on these people and at the same time, there's that pool.
Speaker 1:Now, if covid did anything, it exposed the weakness of the institutional church. It exposed the weakness in the leadership and a lot of them, because very few of them would ever stand up to a government right. Oh, we need to comply, we do. Yeah, we need to we need to.
Speaker 2:You know the the bible teaches us to, to, to, to do this and do that. Yeah, unless it's contradictory to god's word. Yeah, but uh, there were times when you and I would talk because we felt very much alone, um, outside camp for a long time, because there was a time when we started to realize that you know a lot of what we're going to do and God's going to ask us to do is not going to be inside the four walls we had. Thank you, lord. Yes, we had come to terms with the fact that we're not going to be big ministers, we're not going to operate inside. We got more comfortable with where God was planting us, so to speak.
Speaker 2:But in that same sentence, though, it also became very, very discomforting, because we felt like we were the only ones, because there was a lot of folks that would talk about us, you know, oh yeah, and some of them wouldn't really talk about us directly, but would talk about those people, those Christians who don't come to church, those Christians who preach and teach but they don't do it, and you can tell who that's directed towards. But now here we are, 20 years later, and we're seeing that even during that time, there were a lot of folks who were getting the same word, a lot of Christians who were getting baptized in the Holy Spirit and receiving the same instruction starting to leave the four-walled sanctuary and just simply share the good news of God's grace at work in their lives, in their families and just simply being the church rather than going to church. So that was nice for God to give us some comfort in that years down the road. Now he didn't have to do that Doesn't mean he's going to do that in the next mission that he gives us.
Speaker 1:But it was nice. Let me tell you another thing that was going on, though. Another thing that was going on, though, at the time where those cowardly persons, I'll just say, didn't have balls enough to say it to our face, or whatever the female equivalent would have been, didn't have guts enough to say it to our faces, and all that. Whatever, believe me, we don't think about that very, very much. However, back when that was at its height, and the people that were wanting to pull, rank and control and all this stuff and you need to be here, and you need to be under my leadership, and you need to be there there'd be these ministers come from out of town, right? Oh, this man, a prophet of God, right here, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, yeah, shake your hand.
Speaker 1:Didn't ask who your pastor was, didn't ask about your leadership, all these people that were throwing you know all the accolades to these guys. I remember Paul Earl coming out of South Carolina and then, you know, chris Bruce come in and then there was a couple folks that were working at the local Christian television station and they don't know you from Adam and this wasn't like on no TV broadcast or anything like that. Anyway, folks just coming up speaking words to me, speaking similar words to you, in the presence of all those folks that was throwing shade, Yep, shake your hand, give you a hug, oh good, oh Lord of all those folks that was throwing shade.
Speaker 2:Yep, shake your hand, give you a hug, oh good, oh Lord, the Holy Spirit on you, yeah. Yeah, god's got a unique way of letting you know some things Now. I'll defend them a little bit, because I understand some things now.
Speaker 1:Well, they were going with what they knew.
Speaker 2:They were just going with what they knew, and still what they know. Because you know, like I said before, the church that we have today is the only church that we know and it's a flawed example that began 300 years after the birth of Christ. So you kind of have to look at it through that lens a little bit and understand it. You know, like Jesus said, forgive them, they know not what they do. And I was right there in the middle of it too. I was hook line and sinker into. You know, got to go to church, get up under a covering, yada, yada, yada, oh yeah. Until the Lord said who's teaching you that? Where did you learn that? I was like I don't know, you know.
Speaker 2:Then God opens the Bible and says that's not what. Because you can pick out a verse in the Bible and twist it to say what you need it to say. But when Paul starts talking about coverings he's not talking about you need to be sitting under a pastor and you can't do nothing without your pastor's permission. That's not what he's talking about. That's a very specific set of circumstances that he's addressing at the Church of Corinth. So you've got to pay attention to some of these things. But you know, god, let us know that, hey, there are a lot of other people who are without the camp too, so you're not alone, alone and it's okay.
Speaker 1:That was the Elijah experience that you and I both had, was, you know, while we're out there in the cave and we finally get that relationship down enough to where all the distractions ain't distracting us anymore and we're hearing clearly, you know, you and I, in our own way, kind of gave the Lord the same excuse. We're the only ones left. Oh yeah, and he goes. Please, I got 7,000 others, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, the thing is, we thought we were because our own pride came to surface too. Oh, yeah, because, yeah, we thought, as God was letting us know that what we're doing is the right thing, this is what he's called us to do. Well, the pride comes in and says whoo, yeah, I knew that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then he also has a good way of showing you that, okay, yes, you were correct. However, I have this against you and the fact that sure, it takes a lot of pride, a lot of pride, a lot of arrogance to think that you're the only ones doing it. So you got to eat that humble pie too. But that's the glorious thing about the grace of God.
Speaker 2:You go back and look at the letters in the book of Revelation. Jesus is doing that very thing. Yes, you're right, you've done these things. Good job. However, I've got this against you. These are some things you need working on, and if you can bounce back from that, if you can hear that and correct those issues, then I tell you what you've got a good relationship. You've got a good relationship and you hear from God, and you're hearing rightly.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I recall happening let us know, hey, we weren't the only. We were right for the most part, but we weren't the only ones is, all of a sudden, now we thought we was the only ones for 15 years or a little bit longer. You know, you're the outcast, You're the outcast, you're the ones, you're the guys without the camp. Y'all ain't believing it like we believe it, so to speak, and all this. If you was really all this, you wouldn't be catching all that Again. Right around 2019, 2000,.
Speaker 1:We started coming across all these people started coming across. We started coming across all these ministers. We weren't supposed to follow them, but the Lord brought them across our path, whether it was somebody sending a media post or, you know, a social media post or something like that, or even in person, meeting these people that were having the exact same experience, saying the exact same thing that you were catching heat for 15 years ago, yeah, and you're going. Okay, wasn't just me, I get it, but, on the other hand, the Lord had to get us to a point of maturity where it didn't matter if it was just us, as long as we knew it was him. Then we were going to. We uh, to quote a metallica song in a good old christian podcaster we had to get to the point where nothing else matters. Yeah, yeah, and, and that's that's where it got us.
Speaker 1:And it was at that time. You know, when we get that acquainted with the still small voice and find out, oh, not only is it about, you know, our relationship, but you got some things you want to share. You got some things you're still wanting to show us, which was kind of mind blowing to me in a way, like oh, I mean, I've been kind of out here in the, you know, on the bench, I've been out here in the wilderness enjoying myself, and now you're going to tell me what's getting ready to come down the pipe, you know, okay, sure, but the fact that he's calling you back up, yeah, maturity is a big thing.
Speaker 2:Maturity is a big big thing. And I mean, I go right back to Moses. Right back to Moses and his 40 years in the wilderness. Man God didn't call Moses and send him right to Pharaoh to set the children of Israel free, to set the children of Israel free. He called him and it took 40 years to get him to a point where he could speak on his behalf and do it rightly.
Speaker 2:So why would we think we should be any different? You know, when we get saved, a year later we get a call on our life. We think we get to call the ministry. Next thing, you know, we want to be a pastor of a church within three years of being saved. I'm sorry, I just can't buy into that. There are a lot of people doing that and I'll tell you what when I got saved, I bought into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm different, I got saved different.
Speaker 2:That kind of stuff gets in your head. That is immaturity. Yeah, that is immaturity, but that's okay. God will work you through that, he'll get you through it. It's going to hurt a little bit but he'll get you through it if you let him, and that's kind of what he did with me. He showed me some things. You're not ready yet and I'm glad because I wasn't ready. I'm still not ready, but I kept wondering here in Numbers 11, as you were talking earlier with these two dudes, because it said that they had remained in the camp.
Speaker 2:They were listed among the elders but did not go out to the tent. Why, what had they? And it's all speculation because it doesn't really give us any indication here, but I can't help but wonder what did these two dudes see in everybody else or see in the situation that made them go? Man, I ain't going out there with you, I'm going to stay right here. I'm going to keep to myself. I can almost imagine I can hear that kind of conversation going on. Maybe that's just my own voice inside my own head, but there was something that made them stay where they're at and not go with the others, and I think that's something. There's a little bit of that, something in a lot of us that's making us go. Man, I ain't trying to go there, I ain't trying to. That's not where I'm supposed to be, that's where, that's not where I need to be. But I'm going to hang out right here and the Spirit's going to rest on me just the same.
Speaker 1:I like the fact that you have the similar thing going on in Mark, where you got the guys that are man. They ain't just got the spirit, which, granted, it's in measure, but they're casting out demons. They're not following them, but they know enough about Jesus to know that there's power and authority in that name. They're doing the work and, and you know, it's not them that's doing it, it's the name of Jesus, it's the Holy spirit is causing those devils to leave Right, and Jesus commissions. You know the 12 and then later the 70 go out and do this, but these guys just knew it. Yeah, and when did it there? There's something to be said for the something to be said for that.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and we don't know because it's not recorded, but we don't know that Jesus didn't have a conversation with those two somewhere else. We don't know that those paths didn't cross somewhere else. We don't know that.
Speaker 1:Could have been one of the multitudes that heard him preach somewhere. That's enough for me.
Speaker 2:Right, right, we do know from the scriptures that there was more than 12 apostles, you know. So we do know that. But the issue is that, hey, jesus said hey, they're doing what they're doing in my name and they have my authority, and it's working. So, you know, don't put your mouth against them, which is a big thing, a big big thing. So, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot thing, a big big thing. So, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of folks who can resonate with that. The New Kings that you were talking about has the descriptors of these passages. You know, jesus forbids sectarianism. Let's look at the root word sect. The definition of denomination is a sect. So if you wanted to stretch that out a little bit, Jesus and this is just the translator's edit, the translator's heading there you wouldn't find this in the original transcription or anything. But what we're getting from this is Jesus forbids denominationalism, which is sectarianism.
Speaker 1:But don't go saying that in church, because that'll get you tossed out too, looking down your nose at others because they don't do it exactly the way you do.
Speaker 2:Yes, but that's another one of those things, though, that it becomes very easy to talk about how other believers don't do it right, other churches don't do it right, um, that was a big issue with my, the last church that I was attending regularly at um and and starting to starting to be allowed to do some things there, but whenever communion would come up, it was a 10 to 15 minute lecture on how we do it right. This church doesn't do it right and that church doesn't do it right. We do it, you know it. Just, oh, man, it became so grieved that it got to the point where I felt uncomfortable taking communion Because there was such a grievous spirit there at the time.
Speaker 2:So we get comfortable with putting our mouth to other believers, other churches, other denominations and stuff like that. We become very comfortable with that, but not necessarily understanding that that is just as bad and is just as much a sin as anything else, any other commandment that we break in the Scripture. A lot of our denominations are filled with wonderful believers, god-fearing believers, but they have depended upon the pastor for their word and not the Holy Spirit. I pray that God gets them there, you know. But you know they've, they've got to walk it out. They got to walk out. Walk it like they believe it.
Speaker 1:There's. Oh man, he done bought it up, so I'm going to go now. Brothers and sisters, I don't want to be talking bad about any other churches. God bless them, bless their hearts. I'm not to, I'm not going to be putting them down, but let me tell you how we're doing it right. Here and now. You're putting them down because you're not doing it right and rather than focus on what you have in common. Yeah, and you wonder why the school board doesn't fear the church showing up anymore, right, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah. That becomes such a turnoff to visitors, a turnoff to non-believers, especially non-believers who are teetering on the fence and whatnot. Man, those statements like that, it's like saying, with all due respect, before you disrespect somebody you know, with all due respect, without any respect whatsoever, but you've got to be careful, you've got to be careful what you say.
Speaker 1:If you want to see the division and all that stuff, all you've got to do is just turn on the news, depending on which network you want to watch, and you can get it there. The church should not be the place of division, right?
Speaker 2:Right, exactly that should be the most. Sunday should be the most unified day of the week. The church should be the most unified place to go, but it's not. We've got Sunday is the most divided day of the week. You've got all your different denominations. You've got your country church, your city church, your cowboy church, your biker church, your young people's church, your old people's church, your singles church, your married church. It is so divided.
Speaker 1:It's like rolling through the old radio, scrolling with the knobs and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get all this static with just a little bit of blip or something in between.
Speaker 1:You're a teen, Har.
Speaker 2:There you go. It can be very confusing going to church, especially a bigger church maybe 1,000, 2,000 folks in attendance walking through the door, not sure which way to go because you've got someone right in your face as soon as you get there.
Speaker 1:Oh, hello, hey, we're so glad to have you here.
Speaker 2:How many people you got in the family. Where are you from? How are you doing? Are you married? Are you single? Do you need to go down this hallway right here? Oh, I think I need to go home. That's what I need to do.
Speaker 1:It can be very confusing sometimes you know, dude, let me tell you, bigger churches, god bless them. You know, take my thing, send me out in the woods. Send me out in the woods, um, with a grateful heart and a pen and notepad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Some people like it and man more power to them. I can't talk against them, but some people like it.
Speaker 1:One of our more prominent local big churches. I just happen to know and I'm not going to, I'm just saying it's a different mindset. It's a different mindset and had a minister talk to another minister friend of ours yeah, hey, we're doing this and we got our dynamics down and we know that our average you know couple that go here, their name is fred and linda and they're 27 years old and they've got three kids. And they're 27 years old and they've got three kids and they're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and they've got all these dynamics of what their average churchgoer is. Yeah, it's what you're aiming for, that's what you're getting and, hey, praise God for everybody that's gotten saved or delivered or anything else like that. I will say that it's hard for me to relate.
Speaker 2:It is very hard to relate when I hear stuff like that. When I see stuff like that, what I see is not a church, what I see is a business, it's a funnel. I see a corporation, a business. I see recruiting tools in place. I see, like you said, funnels in place. When we say funnels, if you've ever been in sales and marketing or recruitment and retention or anything like that, we talk about filling the funnel and keeping the pipeline full. And that has a lot to do with keeping your eye on your matrices and understanding your target demographics and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:So when I see and hear stuff like that, I start seeing business incorporation and stuff like that, which is just the opposite of what kingdom is in God's economy. I do know that the principle is from reading God's word is that his wisdom confounds the wise. So I know that from reading God's word that he's probably going to fill your church not by worldly means but by spiritual means, by doing the opposite of what the world is doing to make big dollars for corporations. But that's just me. But, like I said, you got to walk it like you believe it. That's how you believe it. Walk it out. If it works for you, then so be it. But I'm going to go with the Lord. I'm going to go with what the Bible says.
Speaker 1:I get more joy, bringing a little bit of light of God through personal conversation. That's really what I see Jesus doing a lot. Not that he didn't give big sermons and all that, but, man, you look at the woman at the well, you look at all these other interactions he has with people, people that are hurting, and I get more fulfillment and feel more purpose. Talking to the recovering alcoholic or the person that's just tore up because, for whatever reason, they're going through a divorce, whether it was their fault or whether it wasn't. The person that's going through some financial difficulty, the person that doesn't know what to do with their kids. If I can bring some of the love of God into those people's lives, you can keep your big church all day long.
Speaker 2:I had a person on the phone today. I can't share a lot of detail, but I had a person on the phone today that was struggling with the way things needed to be done to fix her situation and she wasn't getting the help she needed. I think she was getting the technical help she needed you need to do this, you need to do that and then we can take care of this and take care of that but wasn't getting. Nobody was listening and it got to the point where she made the comments and says I talked to, uh, some other folks in your organization earlier day and I just wanted to blow my brains out, said I've never felt like I wanted to kill myself before, but I want to today. I said oh, okay, well's talk and to sit there and I let her talk for 10 minutes, just let her spell it all out and for her and I know I couldn't have done that without the love of Christ Without the love of Christ I would have been just like the others who said okay, well, here's what we need to do.
Speaker 2:We need to do this, this, this, this, this. I would have laid out, I would have gotten mission focused and laid out these tasks, not understanding that it was these tasks that were overwhelming. Overwhelming them, yeah, exactly. But after she was able to just vent and get it all out, we had a good conversation. She felt a whole lot better. But it was the love of Christ that compelled me to just shut my mouth and let her go. And I'll tell you what I get more satisfaction over that 10-minute phone call than probably anything I've done in the last two or three months. Yep, just because the love of Christ compelled me to listen, do it outside the camp.
Speaker 2:Doing it outside the camp. It's not for everybody, but if it's for you, do it, do it. You'll be rewarded just as well.
Speaker 1:Amen. Hey everybody, thanks for listening. We hope this challenges you, causes you to grow and be doers of the word. You can always check us out at woefoyoorg or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or Audible, or check us out on YouTube. Remember, if you're going to grow, you've got to woefoyo. Get in the word for yourself.