The WOFOYO Podcast
The WOFOYO Podcast
Unmarked Graves: Making a Lasting Impact (Part 2)
The podcast examines what it means to make a lasting spiritual impact versus being like "unmarked graves" that people walk over without realizing, as Jesus described the Pharisees in Luke's Gospel.
• Contrasting a "black sheep" church focused on transformation and deliverance with megachurches that may emphasize size but lack lasting spiritual impact
• How the metaphor of being "too pretty" on Sunday prevents churches from engaging with messy but necessary spiritual warfare and deliverance
• Personal reflection on making positive influences in daily interactions within workplaces and families
• The importance of balanced discipleship that offers both compassion and standards
• Developing authentic leadership that earns respect through character rather than position or authority
• Finding your leadership style that influences others effectively while acknowledging your own growth journey
• Being both a mentor and having mentors in your spiritual walk
Remember folks, if you're going to grow, you've got to WoFoYo. Get in the word for yourself.
#wofoyo https://wofoyo.org/
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Wofo Yo podcast. We're going to be continuing our discussion of last episode and in it we were talking about the Gospel of Luke, where Jesus is basically saying the same thing he does in Matthew 23, but he says it just a tad different. He said that the scribes and Pharisees were like unmarked graves that people walk over without even knowing it. So it bears the mind and what we were getting into is what we're doing for the lord going to make an impact or is it simply being an unmarked grave? And this is a question we should be asking ourselves individually as well as corporately. And as we were ending that episode, we were talking about a church I used to go to that was kind of the black sheep of the churches in that area and we were talking about how they did things different. And we're going to pick it up there. Wofo Yo and I look. And that town was church capital of the world back then. And, granted, they was all not this particular church. They were one of the ones that spoke out about it. There was another guy pastoring by the name of Dutch Sheets. I heard him say the exact same thing and I'd heard Pastor Jones, mention his name as well. And he goes. Man, I was pastoring back in Colorado Springs. Let me tell you what it was, and sure enough, he echoed every word about stealing each other's congregants. It was just about seeing who could track members away from the other churches, but not this church. This church was the ones. I mentioned this story before ended up meeting a guy named Alex who was an usher. Alex had been an attorney. Alex had got strung out on heroin. Alex got saved because they were doing outreach in the park where he was strung out and within two years, not only was he delivered from the drugs, but he was an attorney again. They got him reinstated to the bar Nice. You saw multiple people that had been delivered from things.
Speaker 1:So when I say what is the impact? And this was the black sheep church, this was not the church to be at, this was the church that had a bad name because they didn't participate in all the other ministry stuff that you know, all your citywide ministry. They were doing their own thing. They knew. They knew what they were called to do. They stayed on point, stayed on mission and other people didn't like, but they weren't having the effect. They still had anywhere from between 1,500 to 2,000 people, depending on if soldiers or their spouses were deployed and all that or if they got transferred to another base or whatever was going on. They had numbers. That wasn't a hallmark.
Speaker 1:You had 10,000 member churches in that town, but you also had their pastors getting outed as consorting with homosexuals, you know, as escorts, getting favors and stuff like that. And they're the big ones, they're the big kids on the block. Okay, so what is the effect of that? You went to that church and you got entertained, only to find out that if you put your faith in a man because he had notoriety that he was flawed too, Now if you based all your faith on that, now your faith is in danger of getting shipwrecked as opposed to putting your faith in Christ, which is the main thing that this church encouraged. That's why you saw so many people set free and delivered, and although they did outreach, they had a thing that was bread and butter of that ministry. They had a thing called breakaway. If you've got problems, come on, let's see if Jesus takes care of it. And it was about the most unconventional thing A dude named Richard and his wife Cherise. I think they were pastoring over in Denver last time I checked and they're doing the same thing over there.
Speaker 1:But getting people delivered was the way that that church grew. Total different concept. So you ask okay, you had, um, I'm trying to remember the name of the of the church, but ted hager was the pastor's name that got caught up in all that mess. George w bush consulted him on things. Hey, what do you think the evangelicals were like ted? That new life church, that was new life. Yeah, and a lot of people like we, mine, we like New Life so much, but it was a forerunner to the modern megachurch. And you know what's the fruit? Because, guess what? People stop attending. You're going to have trouble pointing out what the main thing that New Life did. I'm not really slamming people to go to New Life. I'm just saying we have this mentality of what we think is important versus what God says is important.
Speaker 1:If you look at it with long-term vision the homosexuals that got delivered, the druggies that got delivered, the alcoholics and gambling addicts that got delivered, the demon-possessed people that got delivered that is a lasting impact. That doesn't get the notoriety because we don't like to talk about all that nastiness. You know all that sin. Well, if there ain't no sin, then what you getting delivered from you know it's not nice, this isn't pretty. And if we have that, you know that June Cleaver want to mother everybody. Well, that's not nice, we don't talk about it. Well, if you ain't going to talk about it, how are you going to address it? Not nice, we don't talk about it. Well, if you ain't going to talk about it, how are you going to address it? And there were things that got addressed. Therefore, it got dealt with.
Speaker 2:Man, that's lasting consequences, though I heard something profound the other day this is related but kind of not, but it is. I was on the interwebs looking for some pants, kind of just some everyday carry pants, something that I could wear while I'm out hiking and traveling and still carry all the crap that I like to carry you know, my knife flashlight and all the junk that I like to carry. You know, my knife flashlight and all the junk that we carry something that's not really jeans, you know and got to doing some research and I like what one guy that I come across. I like what he had to say. He was comparing two pair of pants. He said he had one pair pair and he said they were really nice. He said but man, I just didn't feel like I could get them dirty or or really do some hiking in them or get sweaty. You're dirty because they were a hundred dollar pair of pants. He goes, so he goes. So the pants that I went for were $22 at Walmart, a pair of Wranglers.
Speaker 2:But anyway, my point is I wonder sometimes when we put on our Sunday best and we go to church on Sunday and we're looking pretty and all those things we really don't want to get dirty at church. No, we don't want to see the dirty at church because we're clean, we're nice and pretty and we don't want none of that dirtiness. We're putting on those fancy clothes and we don't want to roll around in the dirt and get them dirty, even though that's really what Sunday is about. Sunday, going to church is about getting a little dirty because we're supposed to be seeing people set free and delivered. We're supposed to be in prayer, and you can be in prayer on your knees. I don't really want to get on my knees. This is my good suit. I just broke stars today, so on and so forth. I wonder sometimes if we're just too damn pretty on Sunday to get dirty. Man, maybe we should go back to some. Maybe we should be in some regular clothes and not so worried about being dirty.
Speaker 1:Well, you look at it, for all the ridicule that they got and the stereotypes, if you go and look at some of them old mountain churches that them hillbillies went to it wasn't much. Some of them didn't have walls, they had a ceiling. It was like a big pavilion. Right Might have had a wall at the back end Like a boheo, yeah. But you look, and then people could pray and they might be uneducated, but people got delivered, people got set free. Well, they weren't too pretty and uppity, they weren't worried about their dignity. It's kind of like David said, I'll get more undignified still if you think this is something I have yet to defile myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my main thing. You know I look at it. As far as family and stuff, personally I go, man, you know, am I making an impact with my family? Not a lot of conviction there, but it's such an important topic. You go back and you look and examine yourself because you don't want to mess that up. Of all of it, that's the one I don't want to mess up. But at the same time, you know you ask yourself with those that I interact with daily, you know regularly, what kind of impact am I making on their lives? Do I make their lives better by interacting with them or am I just another depressing five minutes to three hours that they're going to spend?
Speaker 2:Am I helping them out or am I feeding their anxiety?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had somebody pull me over one time when I transferred to where I'm at, pay me a compliment and he said look. He said this is not a nice environment. I've been watching you and this is when I was an officer and he goes. He said you're doing something special and I want to encourage you to keep it up. He said because in this environment it's not a positive one. And he says you called everybody by name and you treat them fairly and you're courteous and you might tell a joke or make them smile. He said that is rare, yeah, and there's a lot of folks who go.
Speaker 1:That dude was the biggest mope and all that. Well, yeah, he might not have been a go-getter but it doesn't mean he didn't watch people. But I took that advice to heart and it has paid off big dividends. You know, just shining the love of God, shining the light of God into some people, especially in dark places, ain't got to be a lot, ain't got to be that profound. But I was talking to a friend who's getting ready to retire. I go, you know, little common courtesies, little acts of kindness, they don't cost you much but over time they accumulate and it stands for something Biggest return on your investment.
Speaker 2:Right there I tell you what, just like you talked about being kind to people, recognizing when someone's angry, upset, anxious and hurting, and not feeding into that because they're down and they're vulnerable and they could be a nice easy subject of a quick joke, because that's easy to do, especially where we work. When we work together, it's easier to pray on people than it is to pray for people, true.
Speaker 1:And don't get me wrong, have I joined in the joking hood and all that, especially with new guys? Absolutely, but there was a point to that. But you also had to have enough wisdom to know when to pull back, and not everybody did so. It could be a pit of vipers If you let it be, if, if you are being hard on somebody and yanking their chain to get them to perform, that was something different, especially when somebody is not doing things up to standards. You know, oh man, what the hell are you doing? Your mom know you're working here. You know, oh man, what the hell are you doing? Your mom know you're working here. You know, just giving them a hard time. But somewhere in there, if you're doing it right and giving somebody a hard time, one of the most gruffest, angriest as far as their demeanor they actually weren't. Once you got to know them, this is going to see if you'd push back if you had any sand in your crawl, and once you did, then you were good. But he's going to push you until you agree a pair. But I never took an ass-chewing from him where I didn't learn the right way to do it and what the standards were. Yeah, so that helps, you know, if you know that. But oh yeah, man, I'm one of the main ones that I'll give somebody a hard time and mess with them.
Speaker 1:But also you have to be watching, because the girl that finds out that you know she's divorced thinks she's over everything and feeling lonely. And the next thing you know here's divorced, thinks she's over everything and feeling lonely and the next thing, you know, here you are 45 and pregnant. That's not the person to crap on. You know, that's somebody that could use some compassion. Is what they did, right? No, but it is a mistake that a lot of people could have and have made yeah. So how do a mistake that a lot of people could have and have made yeah, so how do you make that better?
Speaker 1:The person who you don't know it they're so new that they're still trying to make the finances work and they just wrecked their car because they're working over to pay stuff down to get some sleep and, you know, hit a deer and all this stuff. They could use a little bit of advice maybe on how to get them finances lined out and how to balance work and life and all this. There's all these things. You can do that if you're willing to watch people and you know I hate to use a cliche, but I don't even do that. If you're willing to watch people and and you know I hate to use a cliche, but I don't even do the what would Jesus do? Well, everybody has their own version of Jesus. It's like you know, damn, ricky Bobby praying, praying over dinner Everybody has their version of Jesus. No, what did Jesus do?
Speaker 2:Get in the word find out what Jesus did and you go and do the same. Yeah, being kind, showing love and compassion, all those things None of those things require an education, none of it requires a doctrine of divinity. None of it requires you to be a scholar. It doesn't require any of that. Anybody can show the love of Christ just by simply listening and then doing what the Lord is asking you to do or the Holy Spirit is asking you to do, because, man, there's so much hurt out there in the world anyway, and you can either add to it or you can help to dissipate it. But I tell you what being kind and showing compassion and doing the right thing is just the easiest thing to do.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you one other thing that I do, but I see the compassion being overdone in a toxic way by some folks. True love also has standards. If you're the kind of person that is always encouraging and if you're always especially men and women think different you know we're kind of geared different but if you're always encouraging and always approving and always doing these things, then all of a sudden that starts to get taken for granted. Then all of a sudden that starts to get taken for granted. Now, when you are able to balance that love, that encouragement, that acceptance, but also this you do have to get in the word for yourself to know it but when you know what the standards are, and then if you really care about somebody, maybe you're keeping them in your prayers and stuff and praying for them. It's funny how the Lord can kind of and not to be all high and mighty and try and mold that person into your image, but the Lord will show you what that person's capable of and and then you can really get involved and set the bar, so to speak. Not only do you have to build a relationship with the Lord to be able to do that. You got to build a relationship with that person, or else it don't mean shit, you're just somebody harping on them out. You know the old thing, they don't. They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, right.
Speaker 1:But once they know how much you care, then I think true love and again, standards are part of this true, true love. What did Jesus do? He shows you a better version of you, true love, in balancing those standards and that compassion, you hold up this ideal. Maybe we don't achieve it 100%, but if you get 50% to that ideal, are you better than you were? Oh tons. That's really discipleship, right there is getting involved enough to where the Lord is showing you his plan and you won't understand it all, but but his plan and his purpose for somebody. And then you're able to step in with humility, considering yourself and acknowledging your own flaws, cause they're going to once you start to disciple, they're going to be evident. But, but acknowledge that. But also let them know, man, we're all works in progress.
Speaker 2:But here's where you could be. That's a. It's a very difficult thing to do sometimes. Um, I had a had a squad leader this is my last story for today, anyway as squad squad leader before Bragg Staff, sergeant Pagano. He was a. He'd been to Ranger School three times and still hadn't gotten his tab, got a lot of respect for the man because he kept going back. He was peered out his first first trip and medically dropped the second, second, two times. He kept going back.
Speaker 2:But anyway, I was a team leader. He made me a team leader. I was an E4 specialist team leader. I had three other guys in my fire team, all E4s, and I was like damn. I said all right. So I asked him.
Speaker 2:I said, hey, sergeant Pagano, how about maybe getting some corporal stripes? You know he goes. Well, what do you need corporal stripes for? He goes well, you know it's a junior NCO rank. You know, kind of, set me apart from the other E4s. You know Okay, he says so, you don't think they respect you. Now you need those stripes. You know, okay, so you don't think they respect you. Now you need those stripes to make them respect you.
Speaker 2:I said, well, you know, you know how it is. He goes man, I'll tell you what you need to do. Here's what you got to do. He says first of all, I don't believe in corporate stripes, so you ain't getting corporate stripes. But I'll tell you why. He says you have to figure out your leadership style. Figure out how to get those people to follow you because they respect you, not because they respect any kind of rank on your collar. And I hated that man when he said that, because he said a lot of stupid stuff, but that wasn't stupid. That was probably one of the most profound things I'd heard him say ever, probably the most profound things I've ever heard anyone say about leadership Developing your own leadership style. I had to do that in the Army. I've had to do that in my family. I've had to do that at work. Even though I'm not in a leadership position, you're constantly improving that sphere of influence. You've got to develop that leadership style and sometimes it comes down to simply being quiet.
Speaker 2:Anybody can tell a person what to do. Anybody can read a Bible and say this is the qualifications for a deacon, this is what you need to do as this person. But it takes a leader to be able to stand back and go okay, we'll see. And then let the lord take over and let the holy spirit run its course. The hardest thing that I've had to do in my family is let my daughters do what they're going to do when I know they're not going to listen to me, because beating them upside the head is not going to work, hitting them with the Bible is not going to work. Tell them what they need to do, what they should do, what they ought to do is not going to work. But I have to go find the Lord. Say Lord, we got to do something because this is what's going down. He already knows it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but sometimes the answer is okay I'd like to hear you say it, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah he does. Sometimes the answer to my kids is okay, well, let's see yeah, I mentioned a guy in our last episode.
Speaker 1:You know you were talking about profound things. I just became aware today of a saying that he had. We were talking about some things he'd do and he'd teach firearms. He told a girl one time he said okay, I see what was going on here. So we don't have a shooting problem, we have a listening problem. Mm-hmm, yeah, but once he diagnosed it he was able to walk through it. But the other one to me is actually more profound. But he would say have a mentor, be a mentor and like man. That's so well said and we've.
Speaker 2:I think we've, and like man that's so well said Yep and we've, I think we've. We've hit all around that very concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know in asking the Lord to send you somebody, just one person you know that you can pour into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could have saved each other a lot of time. If I had heard that about four weeks ago. Yeah, it's so easy to just tell people what to do, what they need to do, what they should do, what they ought to do, but it requires a little bit more wisdom to say it in a way that they don't really know that you're telling them what they should do. You almost have to. Well, it's the art of influencing others. That's why it's called the art. Sometimes you have to let somebody know what they need to do and make them think it's their idea. I know I'm that way. Sometimes I know what I need to do, but if someone would just tell me and make me think it's my idea, I'll do it a whole lot faster Because the ego jumps in. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's really all we're trying to do with this. We're not trying to spoon feed you, however, those out there in podcast land. We are trying to show you that there's a path that you can go down, and we're letting you know that it's there. And we're just there to encourage you, to let the Lord lead you on the journey, but we're letting you know that the path is there.
Speaker 2:It's there. It's there. Maybe you've been on it for a while and you hadn't met anybody else that's on it. Well, we're letting you know. We're on it too, Because that was us for a while. It felt like a lonely place for a long time, until we started realizing and talking to other people and you go wow, that very same thing is happening to me. So misery loves company. It's nice to know that you're not alone.
Speaker 1:There's this book. Rick Joyner Been thinking about this all week. I said I hadn't been thinking about anything or have been nothing, but you mentioned that and I'm going. Hmm, I go. This is where we're at. But in this book it's called Fire on the Mountain.
Speaker 1:I believe Run boy, run yeah, uneasy Rider, run yeah, uneasy Rider was a better song, but he's been going through this wilderness and this is all prophetic dreams he's had and experiences, and he finally gets out of the wilderness. And he finally gets out of the wilderness and then he has these experiences where you know, rather than follow the river, you know representing the Holy Spirit, and sometimes it appears that it's disappeared. What you've got to do is dig for it. Sometimes that flow is underground. In other words, you've got to dig within yourself. You can't just go to the next church in search of the anointing, no, the kingdom of God's in you, so you have to dig within.
Speaker 1:So he's talking about going through the wilderness and he gets out and he has this brief moment of refreshment. And he has this brief moment of refreshment and, uh, the angel tells him, or the guide, he goes now you're going to have to do something you don't want to do. And he goes. What's that? He said it's time to go back in, he said, because there's other people and you, you're now to be their guide through the wilderness. And man, that ain't been bugging me all week, you know, because sometimes you go, lord, what's going on? And he just kept bringing to mind that book, where it where it's. Well, now it's your turn to lead somebody through the wilderness, you know so. Anyway, if you find yourself there, you're not alone, right. But even if you go back into the wilderness, there's always a different purpose for it and you always come out better Right On the other side. Yeah, a different purpose for it, and you always come out better Right On the other side.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:Wofoyo. Everybody thanks for listening. We hope this challenges you, causes you to grow and also helps somebody else to grow. You can always check us out at wofoyoorg or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or even check us out on YouTube. Remember folks if you're going to grow, you've got to woe-fo-yo Get in the word for yourself.