The WOFOYO Podcast
The WOFOYO Podcast
Returning from the Wilderness 2: From Wilderness To Witness
The path out of the wilderness rarely looks like the path you imagined when you first stepped into church life. We open up about leaving familiar roles, finding unexpected oasis moments, and learning to hear God more clearly in quiet places than on crowded stages. From a notebook in the woods to songs that finally told the truth, this conversation unpacks how solitude can turn confusion into conviction—and why that matters when you’re sent back into a congregation that may not understand where you’ve been.
We get practical about what the wilderness builds: a simpler obedience, a steadier identity, and a new compassion for people far from church walls. You’ll hear how writing and journaling sharpened thinking, how honest Americana songwriting validated pain, and how empathy grew in unlikely places like barrooms and music venues. We also draw a striking parallel between decisive action under pressure and decisive prayer: sometimes you must move quickly and wisely, regain initiative, and trust God with the outcome. And when accusations come, we look at Jesus’ pattern—discern when to answer, and when to remain silent.
If you’re wondering how to reenter church life without losing your soul, we offer a clear approach: don’t chase positions; ask for people. Pray simple prayers—Why am I here? Who should I serve?—and follow the first clear step. Demonstrate the Kingdom with presence, patience, and love. Whether you’re planted for years or sent as a brief witness, hold your ego loosely and your assignment tightly. The man or woman who leaves the wilderness is not the one who entered it, and that’s the best news for a weary congregation.
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Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Woe Foyo Podcast. This one we'll be continuing our discussion about what do you do when it's time to come out of the wilderness, and maybe the Lord calls you into a congregation, and they have no understanding or might even preach against what the wilderness season is about. One of the things we were talking about in there is how the wilderness is a little bit different for everybody, how it manifests in God working out that process where He's calling you to get along with Him in a deeper relationship so you can know Him better, how it looks different for different people. And we ended the last episode on discussing the call to go out and people not understanding the call of obedience and bones is a relaying story about. Woe FOYO. And it became very evident that no matter where I went, and not that there weren't some oasis during this wilderness period. There's a couple, I'll mention that here in a second. Still left on good terms. Right. But I just had these preconceived notions of being an assistant pastor. You know, it was one of the biggest misconceptions the Lord had to get out of my brain. Right. And I'm so much happier now. And doing what I'm supposed to be doing and knowing I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Even if that's being somebody that podcasts with his best buddy, and maybe make some YouTube videos and we talk we and talk like we've been talking for the last 25 years, pretty much, maybe a year less than that, but here any year it ain't gonna be. No way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And there is such comfort in knowing that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. I pray everybody listening finds what you're supposed to be doing and regardless of the money, regardless of the esteem and getting your ego stroked and all that other stuff. Regardless of that, I just pray that you all know the fulfillment of being in the right spot doing the thing that you're supposed to be doing. So that being said, there was a couple oasis. I I just remember stepping away and waking up one Sunday, didn't go to church, and I remember telling my wife at the time, I'm like, I think I'm gonna go down to mom and dad's and uh sit in the woods.
SPEAKER_02:Would you like to come with? No, I think you I think you need to do that. And I went and sat in the woods and prayed, took my notebook with me, ink pen, got what I needed.
SPEAKER_01:And I remember walking out of that going, you know, I got more out of this than I've gotten out of any church service in the last four years. I got more out of this than as much as had a good time. All the arguing got old. It it became very circular in the conversations going over Sister Rogan's and having coffee or tea and and having a Bible study there. Getting along with God was one of the things that gave me fulfillment, and the other things weren't. Not really. Like I said, they they did at first and then they they started to get old. Now, I went through some changes during that time. Never stepped away from God, but I did some stuff I shouldn't have done. And I ain't gonna celebrate that, but you know what? I picked up guitar. I started writing songs. And it and it the the chirp songs just weren't there because that isn't what I needed to get out of my brain. One of the reasons I love country songs is when you're going through bad stuff. I mean, true country songs. Right. They call it Americana now, but yeah. It was country back then. And people being able to write what was on their mind, and that was your therapy. Um, I'm telling you, doggone pen and pad and writing down what's on your brain is a hell of a lot cheaper than whatever therapist you're thinking about going to. And a couple things. When you learn how to write things down, and you learn how to write, you learn how to think. You learn how to organize your thoughts. And it also helps you to learn to recognize patterns that you're going through. Modern country wasn't cutting it. Toby Keith, let's have a party. Although I love Toby Keith. Um, that really wasn't where I was at, or a couple songs where you tell the old lady off and all that, and that really wasn't it either. And there's a guy that came across around 2010, just changed my whole perspective. I'm going, this guy's writing what I'm what I'm going through. A dude named Jamie Johnson. The album was called Um The Lonesome Song. Yeah. It was about experiences of his life. Uh got to meet him, thank him for writing that. I said, dude, it saved my life. I said, you were the one son of a gun that was honest enough to write what I was going through because you were writing what you were going through. And I didn't know you could do that. And from then on, I could write what I was going through. But you look what happened after that, well, start writing songs around 2008, around 2010, really started to write some songs. And so so people are like, well, C Dub, what are you getting at? He led me through a path, but if I don't do that, I'm very ill-prepared when he tells me to write a book. Just saying one thing leads to another. I was able to meet some people that I still consider friends and mentors in life. It helped me recognize that a lot of the same people that the church has been demonizing, and not to call things that are morally wrong right, but he helped me to see that there's a lot of hurting people out there in some of these music venues over there on the bar scene. And you can go into the bar, and I still do, uh, on occasion, and just start loving awesome folks. And I ain't talking about dirty dancing loving, not that, but but you you you can find out, you can you can read the body language and you can tell. Just have a conversation who's hurt, and you can say, hey man, did everything all right? You can be a friend.
SPEAKER_02:And when they criticize you, you go, Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, yep. You you you claim a name of a guy who did it, and now you tell us that that's never the right thing to do. But my trip through the wilderness tore down, like you said, tore down a lot of traditions, never tore down a biblical truth, but it reshaped me into something different. I'll tell you this, it got me more violent physically. When I was, because a good church person wouldn't do this, and a good church person wouldn't do that. And it helped me realize that, you know, uh, oh Kenny Rogers, sometimes you need to, sometimes you gotta fight to be a man. There were certain things and the the fear of getting your hands dirty, or what would people say, that left and didn't go overboard or anything like that, but but with our job, violence of action happens. Right. Why? Because people are coming at you violently. Yeah. And and now's no, oh, let me say a prayer about it. No, you need to deal with it. Get it under control, get it under control decisively, so that way it doesn't raise its ugly head again. And I'll uh tell y'all what I mean, because in case there's any lawyers out here listening. Uh whenever you have to detain somebody or use force to put them in handcuffs or something like that, if you pity Pat with it and you don't do it quickly and decisively, and we use the term swiftness of decision, violence of action, but you do it once and get it done with. There's a lot of people they get afraid to get hurt or get afraid to make a mistake, and then they start to let off the amount of force that they have to use, and then that's when they sense the weakness, and you had the situation under control, and people didn't see that somebody had a knife, people didn't see that there was other things around. There were other threats that they weren't picking up on. And since you didn't get it done as quick as you could, as decisively as you could, now you just got stabbed. Now you just got your jaw broke, now you just tore a rotator cuff or blew out a knee because you didn't handle things.
SPEAKER_00:In the in the military, we called this losing the initiative.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things you like, the Lord, this is part of what the wilderness revealed. Now, how much more so in your prayer life? Right. Okay. So you take these lessons that you learned that the Lord is teaching you in the wilderness, and it might be it might be something that seems minute, and you go, there's no way this has spiritual application. And then the more you pray, you go, wait a minute, there's quite a few spiritual applications. You know, we just a couple episodes ago were talking about David's mighty men. Why? Because their actions have spiritual implications. How do you do spiritual warfare? David's mighty men, Joshua, Moses, the judges, Samuel. That's how you do spiritual warfare. They're doing it physically, and now you have a blueprint to do it spiritually. Right. Okay. There's lessons that you will learn. There's a reason that Jesus chose parables to teach kingdom. He goes, it's kind of like this. Why? Because these are things that you're already doing. You're already out there planting, you're already out there growing gardens, you're already out there fishing, you're already out there doing your regular job. So I'm going to put the kingdom in terms of your job.
SPEAKER_02:So that way you can get the picture and function. Now, when you're called back into a body, it's going to have a purpose behind it. Right. You got to know the purpose.
SPEAKER_01:When I was going through the wilderness, don't be surprised if there's an oasis. Man, still have a great amount of respect for this guy. And the funny thing is, it happened in a place where I normally would have been like, eh, I don't go there. Just totally opposite of everything. You know, everything's professional level. I've talked about this place before, but there was a um used to be called back in the day it was Cape First Assembly of God. Then it just shortened to Cape First. Now it's Discover Life Church. And um pastored there is just about as genuine an article as you can get, dude named Gary Brothers. Despite all the production, Gary has stayed Gary, and that's the amazing thing about it. But let me tell you, there was about a year and a half where I was going there, attending there when I could, and that dude would read my mail. Just blating, and he didn't know, he had met me a couple times, he didn't know what I was going through. We didn't talk on that level. And this is a church of a thousand people or more. And I remember back in 2013, 2014, actually, he read my mail, had no idea how accurate that was. He said, Well, this is a statement for the congregation. This is what the Lord's saying. And I go, Oh, I'll still have that on a CD somewhere. But it it read everything that was going on. That was an oasis. Guess what? Son got baptized in that church. You know, ever grateful, forever grateful for it. But the Lord goes, okay, you've had your drink, you've had your rest, let's get back in the wilderness and learn some things. And there's there's no shame in that. For for those of you that are going through this, there's no shame in that. But when the Lord calls you back into a place, you might want to ask, is this an oasis, or is there still some more time to go? And he might not answer you immediately. He might just have some things for you to go and do. But there's no shame in that. Uh, I want you to realize there's as much as you know what Bones was talking about, people are not going to understand. Never be ashamed of it. You go, okay, this was an oasis in the wilderness. And I got refreshed, but the mission ain't complete yet.
SPEAKER_00:One of the things that that I've been able to take away from the wilderness is I've become more comfortable with with who God cre has created me to be. Um when I first got saved and was was in church and and and everything, and like you said, it's it's very easy to have this perception of who who you're gonna be as a Christian, who you're gonna be uh as a minister, serving, serving the Lord, serving people. Um and there's all kinds of models set out in front of you. Um but I always knew I was not going to be uh not gonna be a pastor, I was not gonna be this. Even though I even though there's uh there's a part of me that that wanted that that image, I guess, that persona, uh wanted some part of it. And I really had to I had to fight against that because I knew that wasn't I knew that was a temptation. I knew that was ego uh that was speaking up. What the wilderness has taught me is how to be comfortable uh with with the personality that God has given me. Um and I I don't have to change just to make someone else happy. I don't think God wants us to do that. Um He has saved us uh through His Son and everything, and He will change us uh but I don't think He really intends to change our personality a whole lot. He still wants us to be who we are Um and I I'm okay with that. So going back into the congregation, having that understanding, I think it'll it'll be a little bit easier to simply walk the road that He lays out before me. Yeah uh and and and move on. And and actually because I have that that revelation now, because I have that experience now, I should be able to walk that road now with a lot more grace and compassion. Um because I I I shouldn't have the urge to defend myself all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I was just getting ready to go there.
SPEAKER_00:Shouldn't have the urge to defend myself. I shouldn't have the urge to defend the Lord. Uh the Lord said to go make the disciples. Uh he didn't need, he doesn't need attorneys and lawyers to defend himself, he does that himself. Um he needs disciple makers. And that's what we're actually going back into these congregations to do is to make disciples in the church, out of the church, wherever you go. Um but the more relationship we have with him, the closer we draw to him, the more he reveals to us about ourselves, um, the less desire we'll have to try to defend uh ourselves to everybody else. We don't have to have that argument because we'll be secure in who we are in Jesus.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:When he calls you into a place, and it might be for years. It might be just as a witness. We don't know. Or maybe he'll just see um how faithful you'll be. Right. Then he tells you it's time to go. Yeah. But the big thing is you're not going in there to cause problems. Amen. You're you're not going in there to not go in to split the house. Yeah, you're you're not going in there to raise contention. All you need to do is demonstrate the kingdom.
SPEAKER_02:Now, if there are voices of accusation, I would say that we have a prime example of what to do, what not to do.
SPEAKER_01:Um in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who demonstrated what to do, and also there were times where he refrained from doing some things where the normal you know human inclination would be to defend yourself and all that. There's times where Jesus did not. There's a couple times that Jesus did. And so you have to have discernment, find out what those things were, and you know, kind of take action based on that. But but read about the read read about how Jesus handled things. We're not going in, you know, when the Lord calls you back to some place after coming in the wilderness, if people don't understand it, guess what? They don't have to understand it. Right. But there might be a time where there's accusation and they call you everything but a white boy and call you a heretic and all this stuff. And you can either demonstrate, you really just got to ask the Lord, am I supposed to be staying here? Yeah. I will tell you this from somebody who's had to answer accusations before. The feeling and the way it feels and how you operate when the Holy Spirit is answering for you versus your flesh and your ego answering is night and day. Oh, yeah. Because you'll go, what in the world just came out of my mouth? And people will go, jaws drop. And be quite truthful, my jaw has dropped. And I'm just like, where'd that come from? That was kind of profound. When they bring you before the courts, don't give any thought to what you say. Be your father in heaven that answers. Right. You know, so there might be a time or two, but you're not going there to satisfy your own ego. You're going in there on a mission. The Lord sends you, and it might just be as a witness. You know, and and you know what? If you're asked to leave, hey go. Yeah. It's important. You know, that that that's probably the witness right there.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That you know, you you bore witness to what you were supposed to. Uh you you tried to be an obedient servant, an obedient son or daughter, and bring kingdom. Where it was, and the fact that kingdom's not in some of these churches is an indictment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the the the man that comes out of the wilderness is not the same one that went into the wilderness. Yeah, and so that right there gives me comfort. Uh, because there's there was growth out there in the wilderness. Um and uh the fact that the Lord is maybe calling you back into the congregation is a good sign, you know. It can be a very good sign. Um it's just uh it's just a different mission, that's all. That's all it is. Um, but the big thing is we don't have to defend ourselves, we don't have to defend Jesus. All we have to do is simply go and obey, just walk, uh walk hand in hand with him. Um if if we truly believe that our wilderness experience teaches us to have a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ, then demonstrating that in a congregation should not be that difficult. Shouldn't be that difficult at all. Should be relatively easy to do, actually.
SPEAKER_02:Amen. There's uh so the Lord sends you back into a congregation.
SPEAKER_01:I would ask this question, and you might get the answer, you might not, but it might take some time. Right. Rather than focus on the congregation as a whole, I would say rather than even focus on the leadership of the congregation, although for some reason I that seems to be what I end up gravitating toward as far as who I'm supposed to be talking to. But ask yourself, Lord, what am I supposed to be doing? And that that answer will reveal itself eventually. But who am I supposed to be talking to?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So so let me tell you how this works for CDU. See, Lord, and it will be different for you.
SPEAKER_02:But Lord send me into a place. Lord, what's going on? Well, just go. And it'll be you need to talk to this person here, that person there, and that person there.
SPEAKER_01:And it it's about whose life you're supposed to touch, it's about who who you're supposed to reach and demonstrate the kingdom to. Does that always make mean you're making them your disciple? That's not what I'm meaning. I'm saying you gotta demonstrate the kingdom. Demonstrate the love of God. If he's putting it on your heart to pray with somebody, or share the love of God with somebody, or maybe he's giving you something to speak to him.
SPEAKER_02:Be obedient. And unless he tells you different, ask me if he wants you to leave, because you might g go in and get out.
SPEAKER_01:Go in, help out at times. Oh, you have an event? Sure, I'll be willing to help. Absolutely. I'll help you all any way I can. Love y'all. But for some reason, with the churches that I go and will attend at times and and help out with, and stuff, he's just gotten me close, and some of these I've known from a while back, some of them I haven't.
SPEAKER_02:Um he's just gotten me in close with leadership. And that's not something I sought.
SPEAKER_01:We just kind of gelled. Right. And I guarantee you, there's a lot of churches where me and the leadership would not gel. But for the ones that I'm active in and that I help out from time to time, we do. So yeah, I I would just encourage you all that find out what purpose he's sending you in there. But it's probably gonna be people rather than some pastoral spot, although it could be or some new kind of ministry that that's gonna be starting up. The the ministry is being obedient.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Your your calling as a believer uh serving the Lord's action, I think it's probably a little bit more simplistic than what you think it's gonna be. Uh we make this thing so hard. And it's not. It it's so easy to be a believer. It's so easy to to disciple someone, it's so easy to simply do what the Lord says. Um, but we sure have made it hard. Uh, we usually make it hard because because of our aspirations, um, because of the things that we think are gonna happen, usually because we get ahead of God. Uh and we think we're gonna go somewhere that he hadn't even told us to go yet. Um following the Lord is the easiest thing to do. It really is. We just need to get out of his way. That's all.
SPEAKER_02:Don't overthink it. Amen.
SPEAKER_01:Wofoyo. Hey everybody, thanks for listening. We hope you found comfort in this and that it encourages you to go out and be obedient to the Lord. You can always check us out at woofoyo.org or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Audible, or even check us out on YouTube. Remember, folks, if you're going to grow, you got a woefo yo. Get in the word for yourself.