The WOFOYO Podcast
The WOFOYO Podcast
From Judges To Today: Why Producers Must Lead
A strange little parable from Judges 9 wouldn’t leave us alone: trees asking for a king, the olive, fig, and vine declining, and a bramble stepping up with threats and empty shade. We followed that thread through Abimelech’s bloody grab for power—funded by seventy pieces of silver and judged by a falling millstone—and asked what it says about leadership today in government and the church. The picture is uncomfortably clear: when producers avoid service, brambles rush in, soak up resources, and set fires they can’t control.
We dig into the difference between builders and performers. Builders speak in solutions, accept fallout, and measure by fruit. Performers multiply programs, manage optics, and explain why it’s complicated. That contrast can feel abrasive because our ears have been trained by bramble talk—lawyerly hedging, endless process, and outcomes that never quite arrive. We trace how that dynamic shows up in Congress, on church boards, and even in our own habits of cynicism, humor, and influence. Clearing brush starts locally: refuse to be lobbied by money, status, or outrage; choose fruit over shade.
There’s good news. We sense a real call for quiet producers to step forward—prayerful men and women who love Scripture, dislike drama, and actually build. Expect leadership that sounds different: fewer slogans, more work; fewer committees, more disciples; less marketing, more mission. If that jars your sensibilities, test it by fruit. Are people being served, saved, and strengthened? Is the field producing again? That’s our aim: to challenge, encourage, and invite you to say, Here I am, send me.
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Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of the Woe Foyo Podcast. Mentioned in the in the short, did my usual New Year's Eve thing over in Carmadill with the good folks over at Eagle's Nest watching. Usually I have some kind of thing that the Lord shared for me for the upcoming year. And rather than make that some announcement, uh I had a passage of scripture, just wouldn't one of them passages of scripture that won't leave you alone. Sits heavy on you like a like a Guinness. Sits heavy on you, won't won't won't leave you alone. And that's kind of what this was. And rather than just say, I have an announcement, Bones called you up real quick, said, Hey, here's what the Lord's kind of sharing with me. And would you rather have a full episode? You'd rather me just blurt something out on a short. And he's and and Bones, you were like, let's talk about it. So uh anyway, uh I saw some parallels, and I was in the book of Judges, and little preface right here. Gideon, the judge Gideon, which we've covered before, he also had another name called Jerubel. Because one of the reasons that he said that is when Gideon is called, first thing he does is cut down the groves. He cuts down the Baal, uh, the altar to Baal and Asherah pose, and is uh the all the people want to kill him. And his father goes, let Baal contend for himself. He's all that, and so his nickname was Jerobal, uh, which means let Baal contend for himself, and so he has his nickname. So you might see that in this passage of scripture. So at the end of Judges 8, Gideon dies. So he has 40 sons that judge Israel and ride donkeys. Abimelech is the son of one of his concubines. So what happens here in chapter 9? He goes out and he forms a conspiracy to consolidate power. And he uses the goodwill of the brothers to lure them into a trap. And so I'm going to pick it up right there for a couple verses at least. He basically sets this up, he goes to the people of Shechem. Anyway, when he does that, the the men of Shechem are they're complicit in this conspiracy. And his mother's relatives, this is verse 3, and his mother's relatives, this is Ambivelech, Abimelech. And his mother's relatives spoke all these words on behalf of the ears of the leaders of Shechem, and their hearts inclined to follow Abimelech, for they said, He is our brother. And they gave him seventy pieces of silver out of the house of Bel Barath, which Abimelech hired worthless and reckless fellows who followed him. So already there's some corruption here. And he went to his father's house at Uphra and killed his brothers, the sons of Jerobel, seventy men on one stone. But Jotham, the youngest son of Jerobel, was left, for he hid himself, and all the leaders of Shechem came back together and all Bethmielow, and they went and made Abimelech king by the oak of the pillar at Shechem. So one thing that's worthy of note in this story, because we're going to cycle back to it, is Abimelech kills his brothers on a stone. One stone. He had 70 pieces of silver. There were 40 sons, but in addition, I guess he must must have been like some grandson, you know, grandsons and things like that. He killed 70 men on one stone, has 70 pieces of silver. So we will pick this up. And here's kind of where we get into the heart of what the Lord was showing me. Verse 7 It was told to Jotham, he went and stood on top of Mount Gerizim and cried aloud and said to them, Listen to me, you leaders of Shechem, that God may listen to you. The trees once went out to anoint a king over them, and they said to the olive tree, Reign over us. But the olive tree said to them, Shall I leave my abundance by which gods and men are honored, and go hold sway over the trees? And the trees said to the fig tree, You come and reign over us. But the fig tree said to them, Shall I leave my sweetness and my good fruit and go hold sway over the trees? And the tree said to the vine, You come and reign over us. But the vine said to them, Shall I leave my wine that cheers God and men and go hold sway over the trees? Then the tree then all the trees said to the bramble, You come and reign over us. And the bramble said to the trees, If in good faith you are anointing me king over you, then come take refuge in my shade, but if not, let fire come out from the bramble and devour the cedars of Lebanon. Now therefore, if you acted in good faith and integrity when you made Abimelech king, and if you have dealt well with Jerubel in his house and have done unto him as his deeds deserved, he said, You know, let it be well. If you've acted in good faith, skip down to verse 19, because other couple verses he's just recounting the good that Gideon did. If you've then acted in good faith and integrity with Jerobel in his house to this day, then rejoice in Abimelech, and let him also rejoice in you. But if not, let fire come out from Abimelech and devour the leaders of Shechem and Bethmiloh, and let fire come out from the leaders of Shechem and Bethmiloh and devour Abimelech. So he said, If y'all were complicit in this, may God set it up so that you devour one another. And Jotham ran away and fled to went fled and went to Beer and lived there because of Abimelech, his brother. So what happens here? Abimelech fosters this Vandetta, as we continue to read, against Jotham, and he wants to pursue him. So this ends up causing a rift between the men of Shechem and the men of Abimelech. And he even to the point to where he called him a bramble. In one of the towns, he takes out the men of the city and whoops them with a thorn bush or a bramble. So this hadn't happened, and Jotham's speaking prophetically here, because he just calls it. You know, and it ends up coming to pass. And so uh as he's pursuing, they they tear down and burn one city, and the corrupt men that are following with him, this ends up costing him his life because they're laying siege to the tower. And he Abimelech says, Set this sucker on fire, we'll burn them all out. And there's this woman drops a millstone on his head, and basically he has a young man, his squire, kill him so that she doesn't get get the credit. So he is uh he kills these seventy, you know, his relatives, these seventy men, he kills them on a stone, and he's killed by a stone. Right. You know, we did a thing about Jesus talking about whoever falls on this stone will be broken, but whoever it falls on will be ground to powder. You you almost see an illusion there. Same principle. So this this idea that you know you have somebody that's corrupt is in leadership. I I really feel like the the thing that spoke to me though was this parable. You have the olive tree, the trees want a ruler. The olive tree says to them, Shall I leave my fatness wherewith by me they honor God and man and go and go to be promoted over the trees? In other words, the the fig tree says the same thing. Should I forsake my sweetness and my good fruit and be promoted over the trees? The vine says to them, Should I leave my wine with cheers God and man and be promoted over the trees? So you have well one of the things that that really spoke to me, though, was this is kind of like what we have in government right now. You have people that are producing because what do Brambles produce? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. All these other trees are producing, but these trees are not totally innocent in their refusal because they are being called upon to serve, but they get comfort, uh, you know, they get comfortable, uh content, they they like the esteem. They don't feel like putting up with the headaches of ruling over the the other trees, of being in service. And I think part of the reason that we see the country in the shape it's it's gotten in is because people that produce don't want to do it.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_03:People that have accomplished something don't want to step into leadership, at least, at least not civilly. You know, they they want to stay in charge of the company. They want to they they they want to live off the fruits of their labors or uh even some kind of inherited thing. They like the comfort, they like the esteem, they like the praise. And you know, when you step into a leadership role, there's going to be instant criticism, there's going to be pushback, you know, you're going to get slandered. It's just going to happen. That's the nature of the beast. So, what's attracted to that? Brambles, which produce nothing. To the point, whether you like the guy, whether you don't like the guy, uh the fact that we have a president who was who made his, not that he didn't get some money, but he increased it quite a bit. He was actually a producer before he ever stepped into the political arena. And we find it strange because this used to actually be the norm. It was people that produced would step into public service, where now I believe the number one thing that people, the number one career people had in Congress, I might look that up, just confirm it.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lawyer. Right. The Ramble produces nothing, therefore it has nothing to lose. Um therefore it's it's not a hard decision to step out and uh step in that leadership role. Um but the trees here, especially those who are producing, uh I see a few things here. Um they're they're producing, they're they're they're producing for their community, uh, they're producing for their household, they're creating a legacy, they're doing all these things, and uh they're even alluding to the fact that this is their calling. This is what they've been called to do. This is their lot in life, so to speak, to do what they're doing. So I can see I can see the hesitancy, uh not just from avoiding the headache of uh of leadership, but there's also uh the the hesitancy to um step away from something that you know you're supposed to be doing. Um I saw this in the army. Uh not only saw it in others, but I saw it in myself too. Uh in the infantry, there is a rank, there's a pay grade where you step out of dealing directly with soldiers, and you step into a more administrative uh and leader uh role. And that rank was E7. Uh once you become an E7, you're not directly impacting soldiers. Um you're you're leading and and guiding NCOs and uh and stuff like that, but the the lower enlisted, you you've basically got your hands off of now. Uh that E6, Staff Sergeant, was the last that last uh vestige, uh, that last leadership role where you have um one foot in the trench leading and guiding those soldiers, and the other foot in the office um advising and assisting the the uh you know the the the admin side of things. And uh so I can see where now for a lot of guys, a lot of guys don't want to they don't want to get out of the trench, they don't want to stop doing those things. So they're hesitant to take that next step into a higher role. Um does that is that the case for everybody? No, I I don't think it is. I think there's just some folks who avoid it simply because of the the headaches and the heartache. Um but I see what I see what you're seeing here too, and that here in our nation, we've got more brambles that are stepping up than we do producers for whatever reason. And we have to have well, we gotta have producers start stepping up, or the or the brambles will step up and just become rich, uber rich. And you know, we we already see what's happening when they they become uh you know, selfish and and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03:So Yeah, there there's all these famous examples of those on it don't matter Republican, Democrat, whatever. But you you're you're on a hundred and some odd thousand dollar a year salary as a member of Congress or a senator, and the next thing you know you're worth millions? Multi-millions. I mean big millions. In less than a decade. Yeah. Yeah. But hey, you know, you you you're you're better than Warren Buffett, who just stepped down today, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:And um and and didn't produce anything, though. And then there's the key. You didn't produce a thing. Didn't didn't uh produce any legislation, any, any, any uh successful legislation, um, didn't do anything, didn't do anything except become rich. That's exactly what Brambles, as that's that those are Brambles.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh I looked it up. There's a lot of people that public service was just a way of life. Right. So they they've never done anything other than be elected to something.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So is it really public service then? Is it is it that or is it mooching off the system, you know, again being a being a bramble. The other thing, there is a decent amount of business owners. Definitely not a majority, though.
SPEAKER_04:So these are the producers, and then you've got a significant amount of attorneys, and in the Senate, forty-seven percent of the senators have law degrees. Right.
SPEAKER_03:So you're good at arguing, you're good at slowing things down, which is basically what the Senate does. Uh, you're good at slowing things down, but you know, what have you what what have you produced? You know, you Jesus had his opinion about the lawyers, and it's probably not that different um today as far as what profession uh actually entails.
SPEAKER_00:The uh the art of delaying a decision until it's no longer relevant. Yes. That's that's politics.
SPEAKER_03:So so what what I began to see was, you know, here's here's where we're at. We've had people that don't produce. And not just don't produce, you're pretty much worthless. You're an irritant. Right. Um in certain communities. Um you know, let's let's talk about what what different presidents have done. Um talking about FDR was aristocracy, Wilson was a college professor. Uh before that, Theodore Roosevelt, well, he was a he was a police chief. I can't remember if he was a governor or not, have to have to look that up. But he did some exploits, though. Say what you want about Teddy. Teddy knew how to go out and conquer things. First, first thing Teddy Roosevelt learned how to do was conquer himself. Because he almost died as a kid and got out in nature and started hiking and hunting and doing all this other stuff. Um, Rough Riders, San Juan Hill. Right. Hey, we're just gonna organize it, go down and fight, boys. He he was he was a man's man. Yeah. Uh but but then you look, and again, FDR, aristocracy, uh Harry S. Truman, beloved in the state of Missouri, um, school teacher. Right. Is what he did. And guess what? He died broke. Didn't need Secret Service, any of that. Really, the last president that we had that actually produced something on his own was uh maybe Jimmy Carter, who is a farmer. Johnson was a politician. Kennedy did some exploits, like legitimately did some war exploits. But where did his family get their money from? Bootlegging. That is what it is. But to be fair, produce something. But really, you you look at all these that uh that have come up. Ford was was professional politician. Uh Nixon was a professional politician. Reagan was an actor. He was just an actor who was fed up, is what it was. And really, uh you look at the Bushes, you look at the Clintons, not the Bushes were involved, their dad was involved with oil, but they were they were kind of establishment guys. You don't get to be the head of the CIA without being an establishment guy. And you know, W did some things. Obama, community organizer, that's that's what he is. Wife's an attorney. Um Trump, what the hell do they think he also had a law degree? Obama.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. Yes. So Trump comes along and
SPEAKER_03:He's not talking like we haven't had a producer in office for so long that people can't remember what the hell it sounds like. Uh there's proverbs that rich man answereth roughly.
SPEAKER_00:And the thing with producers is that they they do. Yeah. They do things. And they usually they usually do things by simply going and and and doing and then um worrying about the fallout uh after the thing has been done. Um of course you need some moral character to make sure that you know it's the moral character, the moral fiber that ensures what you're doing is legal. Uh because you can be you can be a producer in a negative way too. Um I'll teach about more fiber. But um the producers they they produce, they go out and they do things and and they they don't worry about the fallout uh because they know that what needs to be done needs to be done. Um they and then they let the chips fall where they may. Um now some of us don't have pockets deep enough to cover that, but yeah, a lot, but they do. So they do.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that was that was one of the issues that I got thinking about, you know, when you producers don't talk like organizers. Right. Producers don't talk like politicians, they talk like producers. The one thing that makes that such a danger to the politicians and to those that are brambles is it exposes it really, really quick.
SPEAKER_00:It does. A producer, a producer is gonna have a solution to every problem, and an organizer is gonna have a problem to every solution.
SPEAKER_03:And a program you can buy to help you not be as guilty of whatever problem they assert that you have, even though it's never going to cure the problem. Right, right. That they help perpetuate. It's all one big grift. And I've said at dinner tables back when I was married, but people who mean well, but this is the only it's kind of like you talked about when we do church. This is all that we've known. This system that we've had is all we've known for a long, long, long time. And these are people that are brought up into it. And the way that you get uh the way that you get ahead is you get your education, you get you some degree, and you call attention to whatever we talked about this in that short anatomy of a scam. You got to create the problem that you're that you're the solution to. And the way you're gonna bring about some outliers, because there's always bad stuff happening. All you gotta do is be able to you wait till the opportune time, and then you point it out and you magnify it and you promote it on whatever platform you can promote it. And now there's a need for people, for governments, for companies, for individuals, whatever, usually governments and Fortune 500 companies, to buy into your program so that you can certify that they're less racist, that they're less sexist, so that the cops are less violent, that you're getting whatever these programs are. That you're getting what you paid for. That you're yeah. And so they're gonna now they'll never solve the problem. They're just gonna continue to point out more of it, and now they need more of your program. It's like a leech, it's it's like a cancer, is what it is. Um, so this is kind of what the brambles do. The brambles take up nourishment from the soil that chokes out the producers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and so I'm glad you brought brought the church a while ago, though. Uh, because I see this very same pattern going on in the body of Christ in the church. By by types and shadows, it always happens in the church before it happens in the government. Yes, yes. Uh and and I'll I'll tone it down a little bit, maybe, probably. But uh what I see going on in church, though, is once again, it's it's the church that we have because it's the only thing we know. Um, there are very good-hearted people, very uh very good people with with good intentions that are doing things in the body of Christ, but they're not producing. And when I went when I say not producing, now they're not producing, but they may be showing fruit, which you know, the fruit of the spirit, but they're not reproducing. And what that means is you you're not you're not you're not saving people. Um, so and and to maybe to give some examples, we have a lot of people in the body of Christ, a lot of people on Sunday mornings that are very well educated, have plenty of uh higher education, plenty of degrees, have studied and are very good scholars and and and all these things who have knowledge of the scriptures and and and knowledge of everything that they need to know to lay out a five-point sermon, uh, to lay out a teaching plan and all those things, but it's not reproducing, it's not, it's not creating um uh a bigger church, it's or a big well, it's creating numbers, but it's not it's not leading people to salvation, it's not fulfilling the mission that Jesus has called us to. And what I see is when I said a while ago, I see the same things happening in church. There's gonna be a time where that's gonna change, and Jesus wants to see those people who are producing. Um, and the truth is the people who can produce are usually the ones sitting on the sidelines who don't like church drama. Uh, they don't really care for church drama, they don't really want a lot of attention in church. They just they're faithful attendees, they want to go to church every Sunday, but they don't really want to get into the business of it, they don't want to get into the politics of it. So they just kind of sit aside. Um, but they are powerhouses when it comes to the scripture. Uh, they're powerhouses when it comes to prayer uh and all these things. Um when those people, when those people step up, you're gonna see a change, a major change uh in the church and inside the body of Christ, because those are the people who are gonna cause the church to start reproducing.
SPEAKER_03:I look, and there's a reason. What you're saying is the reason that when we when we started doing some interviews, the first two people I wanted to interview was Gerald Malone and Phil Miller. Right. Because that's what they do. That's what they do. If we could have interviewed Brother Frank, we'd have interviewed Brother Frank. Right. Um you have people to summarize, they're defining the kingdom. Yep. They're giving you a breakdown of the organization of the kingdom. They might tell you how you're not being part of the kingdom, but they'll do everything but build the kingdom. Right. Right. They'll criticize those who don't build the kingdom according to their definition. But those that are actually going out and building the kingdom are they they're not featured in the pulpit showcase.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You'll you'll probably never hear their name come through come through the sound system at church. Yeah. It's not a bad thing. It just it is what it is.
SPEAKER_03:It's knowing real Christianity versus marketed Christianity. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Because guess what?
SPEAKER_03:There's a little bit of allure in being a praise and worship leader. We we said before, uh, been saying this for 20 plus years now, the anointing is sexy. It is. Yeah, there's some of there's some allure. And uh a lot of times it's needy women that are unfulfilled in some way. Not exclusive to that. Right. Um, because you know how how many praise and worship leaders are you finding out were homosexual, but no, they had them in the church because they can make it sound good. Or not even that, but they're getting around, you know, in an unbiblical way.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Well, the the biblical way of getting around is with a ring on your finger. Uh they was reproducing in the wrong way. Yeah. Going through the motions at least. Um, but but I see this and I go, well, it was happening in the church. I'm glad you brought that up. It has to happen in the body. I I would say a vast majority of what you see in the world is reflection of things that are out of line in the church, and it manifests there before it ever manifests out in the world. Right. Yeah. What we see especially if we have a nation that's supposed to be built on Judeo-Christian principles, right? It's going to manifest in the church before there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what we see in the physical is usually um uh a picture of uh what's going on in the spiritual, a lot of times.
SPEAKER_04:So you grew up on a farm. I grew up on farm land. But the one thing about it is brambles and trees that produce, crops that produce, they don't grow well together.
SPEAKER_03:If the trees that produce are already established, they're going to crowd out the amount of light and water and nutrients, they're going to take that up so the brambles have trouble growing. Right. However, if they're not established, the brambles will choke out the trees and vines before they can ever get established. So it's kind of a thing of who's there first. Now, if you were going to start to cultivate the land so that you're growing stuff and the land is producing, and you just have raw ground, you know, one of the first things you're going to have to do is anything that's not producing, you gotta get rid of that. You you gotta clear the brush, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it it comes down to comes down to which one are you feeding? Yeah. You know, are you are you feeding the the brambles or are you feeding uh the the trees uh and whatnot? So and in that context, that makes you uh the husbandman. That makes you the makes you the farmer. So are you in in your own life, in your own sphere of influence, you know, uh what are you feeding? Are you feeding uh brambles? Are are you uh are are are you a bramble? And and therefore that's all you know how to do is produce brambles. Uh are you a tree? Are you an olive tree, uh uh grape tree, or or whatever the case may be, uh, you know, uh, and and and are you are you feeding that that kind of that kind of fruit? Um so we all have that responsibility inside of our own sphere of influence. Um so it's very important to to kind of take that into context and realize, okay, I gotta, you know, is my negative, what's my negativity doing? Uh what's my positivity doing? Uh, because I know and I'm gonna just I'm speaking to myself now. Um, because it's a whole lot easier for me to be negative than it is than it is to be positive. Um, but it's a it's easy for me to forget that the people around me will feed off my negativity real fast. Yeah. And if I allow that, if I allow myself to be negative, then I'm allowed I'm feeding everyone else's negativity. I'm I'm a bramble feeding brambles. And and a lot of times I do it out of humor. Uh and I I have to remind myself, well, I ain't that's not really what Jesus is wanting you to do. It's funny, but it's not funny. So, and I'm just picking on myself there. But, you know, we have to we have to remember that though. You know, we are responsible for our own sphere of influence. And negativity is a good, good way to foster uh a pretty good field of brambles if you ain't careful.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you can foster your own personal brambles, and then if you're in the church, you'll foster brambles that will be infectious. And and your attitude, like I said, if you're in a business or if you're in whatever your workplace, if you're in government, whatever it is, it's gonna it's gonna bring that. I I remember I was looking on one thing I meant to cover that you know, brambles just take up resources, is all they do. Yeah, they do. Uh since they don't produce, it reminded me especially with government. You see them, well, I can't afford to run this campaign. And so now you're taking uh because you don't produce, um they step in, they take donations, they sell out to the highest bidder. Uh, I was talking with my neighbor Jim way back in the day, and I thought it was neat that the current president ran. I go, um, I remember one of his harshest critics uh was a dude named Glenn Beck, who's kind of come around on him. And to his credit, Glenn Beck said I was wrong. But I remember when the dude when Trump announced it, they thought it it was like frat boys laughing at something, you know, because they're drunk. And I don't want to Glenn Beck's been sober sober for a long time, you know, praise God. Uh so I'm not trying to speak that, but it that's the attitude was just this kind of juvenile derogatory. Oh, this guy can't be serious. And the more he won, the more irate Glenn Beck got, and he's since apologized that Matt was just wrong. But yeah, it what it is, what that was about was your pride and your hubris. But I thought it was a joke, but I remember talking to my neighbor Jim, and you know, it was pretty much down between uh Trump and Ted Cruz, and you know, Trump was kind of underdog. Marco Rubio's name was mentioned. Um uh Bush Jeb. Jeb. All the establishment guys. I think Jeb would be good. And one by one, whether fair or not, whether nice or not, even whether his uh, you know, to the degree of accuracy was debatable, but one by one Trump called him out on being politicians, is what he did. But my neighbor Jim goes, you know who I'm voting for? Jim, paint a picture. Grayhead has his big bushy, it's not super long, but it's kind of a bushy beard. And when he talks, he talks like this. Great music fan. That's that's why Jim and I are friends. But he looks like the most interesting man in the world from the old Dose Eckies commercials. Yeah, I mean, a lot. And he goes, you know what I'm voting for? I I don't know. Uh and you know, I'd made up my mind who I supported, uh, and there were some reasons for, and I go, Yeah, this is more theologically sound here. You know, it all had to do with God, it had to do with certain nations. You know, uh are we going to be a blessing to certain nations? Are we not gonna be a blessing to certain nations? You know, how are we looking? And uh I pretty much made up my mind, and he goes, I'm voting for Donald Trump. And say what you want about Jim. He doesn't do things half-cocked, he put some thought into it. He said, and you know why, and this had never occurred to me, but it got me to thinking. So if Jim knew, yeah, bud. Uh he has his own money. He said, them lobbyists can't make him do shit. Yeah, he don't answer to nobody. And that but that that was his reasoning. That was his logic. And I drove away, but I got to thinking that's not the nice way to put that.
SPEAKER_04:But that's some real accurate logic. That's some very accurate logic.
SPEAKER_03:Blunt, but it was some accurate logic, and I paid attention to that, and then I was going, man. Because people that are all constantly taking donations. Now, how does that go back to the church?
SPEAKER_04:Come on.
SPEAKER_03:Who who's who's made sure that the that the businessman is on the church board and might be enjoying them fine dinners or uh might have him a little room at the clubhouse on the golf links?
SPEAKER_04:Seen that um who's who all of a sudden is ministering to all the millionaires in your congregation?
SPEAKER_03:I'm just saying who who who can be who can be lobbied to preach a certain kind of Sunday school lesson or teach a certain kind of Sunday school lesson or preach a certain kind of message from the pulpit on a Sunday morning?
SPEAKER_00:Here's an interesting experiment. If you think we're wrong, just go to church or look at your church and look at your council members. If you if you have a church council and look at who they are and see what their position is in the community versus the fruit and product they're producing inside the church. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm not saying businessmen shouldn't be part of your church board. Right. Not not saying that. However, if there's a conflict and the preacher won't preach about the conflict.
SPEAKER_00:I could speak this the very probably the first church that that I was a part of, if gambling was was was okay, if we could gamble as Christians, I'd lay a hundred dollar bill down that that nobody on the church council had led anybody to Christ in several years. How about that? Um it just wasn't it wasn't in their DNA. It wasn't it's not what they were about. It was just but their uh their family started in one of them, one of them, their family started that church, uh so on and so forth. But I digress. Uh well pay attention, uh that's all you got to do.
SPEAKER_03:How about if you got the national education association, your your big teachers' unions, all the filth that they're supporting and pushing? Right. It's not is not just higher salaries. Oh, yeah, but if you Got the teachers' unions that are pushing perversion, and you got some influential teachers in your congregation, and you won't speak out against them.
SPEAKER_04:This is no different than Brambles. Because you could use that tithe money, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So anyway, like I said, just take a look around and and and compare. And and if we're wrong, hey, that's good. I hope I hope we are wrong. That that'd be a good thing. Uh but if we're not, then you know, what can you do changing?
SPEAKER_03:You have said something before, and I hate to be the guys that do it, but I think it's kind of what we did in this podcast. Oh well. Uh, we'll try and do better, folks. But you you talked about how you can walk into a lot of churches and you hear um you hear about 40 minutes of law for five minutes of grace. I wanted to identify the problem and show that this passage was relevant, but here's the reason why. Give y'all a little bit of hope. There you go. I have an inkling in my gut. I think the Lord is saying that here's what got you there, but uh I'm doing some things and it ain't always gonna be like that. I think you're I think a lot of the producers are getting ready to start to feel the call if they're not doing it already, to step up and serve and realize that by abstaining from service, whether it's in the church, whether it's in government, whether it's in whatever, by abstaining from leadership, they've let Brambles take charge. So I have a feeling, I I sincerely believe that the Lord's been kind of hinting, if you will. Right. But but the reason I wanted you all to be aware of that, though, is if this is the case, if this is the case, and the Lord's truly calling these producers to step up in a leadership role, be prepared for it to look different. Because we've gotten used to brambles. When the producers don't talk like the non-producers, uh, when the producers don't talk like the parasites, be ready. That's a good thing. I was just gonna say that's the problem. The problem is we've just not been used to it. So when your sensibilities are shocked, be willing to take a step back and ask the Lord what's going on and look at the fruit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:All the all the reasons for for not stepping forward are are are gonna be gone away. They're gonna be done away with. And God's gonna open that door for the producers to step forward and and and and make a change. Um not saying it's gonna be easy or anything, but like you said, um, it's gonna be different. And that's the key. So it maybe you felt that that on your heart. Maybe you felt that tug already. Uh something been pulling you towards uh leadership, towards making a change, towards whatever whatever you've identified it at as in your heart. Um don't be afraid to step forward and raise your hand and say, Here I am, Lord, send me. Um because He He needs He He needs those producers. Um And then you know definitely pray over. But I do think it's it's gonna look different this time. Um all those reasons why we didn't step forward in the first place. He's taking them out of the way.
SPEAKER_03:Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself. Wofoyo, folks. Amen. Hey everybody, thanks for listening. We hope this challenges you, causes you to grow, and also notice what's coming down the pipe when it happens. You can always check us out at wofoyo.org, find out how to contact us here, or subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or Audible, or you can check us out on YouTube. Remember, folks, if you're gonna grow, you gotta woe fo yo. Get in the word for yourself.