Decoding Revelation Through The Seven Churches (Revelation 2)

Revelation can feel like a maze of symbols, hot takes, and end-times anxiety, but we read it as it actually introduces itself: the unveiling of Jesus Christ. We pick up where we left off and show why “scripture interprets scripture” is the safest way to approach apocalyptic language, especially when John is writing to real churches under real pressure in the late first century. Instead of chasing predictions, we look for patterns that repeat across the whole Bible and across church history.

We start in Revelation 2 with Ephesus, a church that gets a lot right: works, endurance, and discernment against false apostles. Then Jesus delivers the line that should stop every modern Christian in their tracks: they left their first love. We talk about what it looks like to substitute duty for relationship, why repentance is an actionable return, and how a church can keep its name while losing its lampstand. From there we touch the Nicolaitans warning and the dangers of a clergy culture that dodges accountability.

Next we move through Smyrna, the persecuted church with no rebuke, and into Pergamum, where comfort and compromise open the door to Balaam style motives, money, and spiritual stumbling blocks. We also get into Thyatira and the Jezebel warning, where manipulation, seduction, and ego can hide behind “spiritual” language. Throughout, we keep coming back to the promises Jesus gives “to him who overcomes” and the call to discernment that tests fruit, not labels.

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Transcript

Satire Cold Open At The Cafe

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Before we begin, we have announced it. For those that need a lot of starting, make your use that buy the mega turkey cafe and bookstore. When you lift your hand and they start taking, you won't know whether it's the annoying or the cafe. Our special this month are the sticker tinted latte and hypergrade copper shot pretend to the Holy Spirit toy credit. For the youth, we are giving away a free pop screen with the purchase of every fit hot chocolate. And our book special this month is our Hank Handgraft Two Pack. Miracles are of the devil, and I don't believe nothing. Do discipleship the way Jesus intended. Stop on by the Mega Church Cafe and Bookstore. It'll bless you. In our last episode, which I, if you're going to get into this episode, I highly encourage you to get into last episode, last full episode. We got into Revelation 1. And Revelation 1, we were talking about this concept, and we're kind of doing this as an exercise so you can see how it works, and then you just do the same thing for yourself. We're not trying to establish doctrine. Truth be told, there isn't a whole lot that we're going to say that we probably haven't heard somewhere before. Bones you and I really got into the book of Revelation right on there. One of the things that led me to getting born again. I was a believer. One of the things that led me to getting born again and baptized was a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. So I'm thankful for that. I was I was a revelation end times junkie, and I will be the first to tell you it's the most misused book in modern Christianity because we use that to sit on our rear ends and wait for the Lord to come and do nothing else and not be salt and light. Rather, we just had church. So there's my little there's my little soapbox thing. But we got into the symbolism of the message to the churches, and really he gives a key because you can use scripture to interpret scripture. And Bones, you were getting into how different passages just last chapter uh in the description of Jesus, it's exactly like the description that Daniel did.

unknown 2:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

It's exactly like a description that Isaiah did, that Moses did. You know, we we can use these Old Testament references to show New Testament things. We we've even done one here in the last couple years where we showed the similarities between the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the four horsemen of Revelation, and the four horsemen in Zechariah.

unknown 3:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

They're identical.

unknown 3:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

So when and as you mentioned, John's exile. He can't just write letters, he has to encode these. And he does. So therefore, it befalls us to at least try and use the scripture to decode.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Yeah, one of the things that that really bothers me with um with the book of Revelation and the way we we look at it in in the church today is that the church doesn't really teach on it and preach on it very much. Um we're almost we're almost afraid of it, I think. I think a lot of us are afraid uh are just afraid to teach on it because we're we're afraid we're gonna make mistakes. Um, and we probably are. Um but the book of Revelation should not be a book that scares you away from it uh because you're you're afraid you're gonna make a mistake in interpreting it or translating it or anything like that. Scripture will translate scripture, um, but you have to look at it with a fresh new set of eyes. Um, because there has been a lot of junk taught over the years. Um I keep in mind when I'm reading the book of Revelation is that uh it's written at the very end of the first century, and John starts off writing the book, talking about the things going on in his day. So he starts off talking about uh very current uh things happening, and then he starts and he kind of spreads it out and starts talking about things a little bit uh coming up in the future. Uh, and then he by the end of it, he's talking about things happening way off in the future. Uh, but the entire book is not way off in the into the future. Correct. Um, it's a book that unveils um Jesus Christ, because that's what revelation means, the unveiling. It's it's an unveiling from the time that John receives it up until Jesus comes back and goes through the millennial reign, and and we see a new heaven and a new earth. Uh, so there is revelation uh and um there is use for this book in our church and in our lives today. Um, if anything, it shows us the faithfulness of scripture. So um it's okay to read it and not fully understand it and and uh put some of it on the shelf and come back to it because you know the book of Revelation is a is a phenomenal book. Um if you're looking at it though as some kind of fortune teller, you know, to see when Jesus is gonna come back, ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, uh there's been a lot of denominations established, bogus denominations, and let's just call it what it is, cults. Cults, yeah. Um, that have been established due to trying to misread it.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

So read it, and if anything, look at how faithful scripture is as we're looking at the end of the Bible, and it's talking about things in the beginning of the Bible, and and like, man, it's okay, the Holy Spirit is really laying some things out, and he's saying the same thing here at the end of the Bible that he said at the beginning of the Bible. And to me, that's that's phenomenal.

Reading Ephesus With Old Testament Clues

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yep. Revelation chapter 2, verse 1, to the angel or messenger of the church of Ephesus, right? These things say he who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands, refer back to the end of chapter one, seven stars or the seven angels, seven golden lampstands are the seven churches. So Jesus is saying, I'm walking amongst you. Your congregate wherever two or three are gathered in my name, I am in their midst. So even the ones that ain't letting them in, as we get into with the Laodicean church, the last one, still walking among you. Still walking. Now, how how are you going to receive them? You're gonna receive them one way or another, and you're gonna see that here in a second. But he who has the seven stars in his right hand and who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands, I want to point out one thing before we continue. That in every address, in every message to each church, he's gonna refer back to some kind of symbolism that was put out in chapter one. And I have a theory you can debate it, you can say you're full of it, C dub. But this is also getting ready to tell you his judgment.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

He's kinda he's kind of telegraphed to telegraphing it just to tad.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah. Which I think is pretty cool because that means he shouldn't be catching anybody off guard.

You Left Your First Love

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Amen. So what what is the thing? The seven seven stars or seven angels, right hand is a place of authority, it's also a place of friendship, you know, in almost all cultures. You go over to Middle East, right hand is good. Left hand, not good. Uh it's the lowest of hands. Uh butt wiping hand. So you if you were left-handed and tried to shake somebody's hand in the Middle East, major offense. It is. Uh, just like uh if you show them the bottom of your foot, major offense. But you can see the same thing that culturally, David said, even my trusted friend who ate at my table lifted up his heel against me. You're seeing the cultural reference there. Right. Do some time in the Middle East, it'll change your way of thinking. In the midst of the seven gold lampstands, so Jesus is walking in the seven golden lampstands, those are the seven churches. Um verse two I know your works, your labor, your patience. So you're doing works, and that you cannot bear those who are evil, and you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not. So you got things doctrinally right here. You ain't buying into a bunch of deceit. You have tested those who say that they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars, and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored from my name's sake, and have not become weary. You keep on doing what you're doing, you got it doctrinally right. When it comes to check the box theology, you got it, except here in verse 4. Nevertheless, I have this against you that you have left your first love. You've left your first love. Well, what's your first love?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Should be Jesus Christ. Verse 5. Remember, therefore, from where you have fallen. Remember, therefore, from where you have fallen. Repent and do the first works.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Or, so so here's the admonishment: repent, do the first works. There's your instruction. Repentance simply means change it, fix it. Uh, you've left your first love, you're doing all these things, but you're forgetting why you did it. You're forgetting who you did it for. You're just doing it because it's the right thing to do. But you're doctrinally right, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place. You're not even going to be a church anymore. You'll be a church in name only, but you won't be one of mine. I will come quickly, remove your lampstand from its place unless you repent. And verse 6, this you have that you also hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. And this was the idea of the clergy were way up there, and then the laity was the common man. And so that and that led to a lot of abuse, and also the idea that the clergy could do no wrong. Um, so here you have that right there. I'll remove your lampstand. You'll be a church in name only, but then he then he encouraged them right again. But you know, you do have that that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

What's interesting here, uh Ephesus was the third largest city in the in the Roman Empire at this particular time. It was uh it was a very big, very big city in the empire. Um and uh the church there, Ephesus was literally wiped off the face of the earth. There was there's nothing left of it. It was it wasn't until the last couple decades that archaeologists believe they've actually found uh foundations of it, ruins of it. Uh, but it was it was it was literally wiped off the face of the earth. Um so Jesus did not uh Jesus did not lie when he said that I will remove you. Uh it was it was it was it was wiped away. Yeah um so uh it's interesting too that in First Thessalonians we see a very similar um admonishment to the uh church there at Thessalonica. It said, we remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love and endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. So we know that there were other churches who were doing good things uh during that time, but this particular uh church had had fallen away from uh from that stuff. It cost them, you know, they ended up uh being wiped off the planet, but not until, like I said, until modern history have we rediscovered uh through archaeological uh digs their their foundations.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

So the literal church of Ephesus is is knocked out. He's removed that candle. Let's just finish this thing up and skip back a little bit more back into it. Verse 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. There's some symbolism right there. Well, what what did um if you go back? This is Genesis. Right, this is Genesis account. This is Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden after they eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What does God say? He says, We got to get them out of the garden, let's say eat from the tree of life and live forever.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So if you over if you overcome these things, you don't die. You're eating from eternal life, you're in paradise with God. So what what age would you think this would be?

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Um this has been described here as the apostolic age, um from about AD thirty to one hundred in that time frame. Um but I also see that the spirit of this church still still lives on. Uh there's the and that's what I mean when I said earlier that you have the physical churches, you have the messengers or angels, which are the spirits, uh, and you and you have the the the uh the ages or the the church ages. Some folks believe in the church ages. I see evidence for all of those. Yeah, this could have been uh the apostolic church age, believe from 80 30 up until the end of the first century. I don't know. Um, but I still see some of this spirit hanging around.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Well, uh yeah, that that's the reason I I really didn't buy into the church ages thing, just because I see the same thing today. And we've got this doctrinally right. Well, what are you doing? Well, we do this and we do this and do that. Okay, you know, let's go Jeremy Malone. Okay, how's Jesus treating you? How are you treating Jesus? Right. What do you mean? This is our duty. Hey, it's great to have Christian duty, I get it. You should, but not at the expense of relationship.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Yeah, a lot of these churches that we'll see as we get through this have very similar uh admonitions. Uh they're doing a lot of things correctly, uh, you know, and they're very similar in those things. Um and a lot of them are, you know, they have some very similar um uh condemnations as well. Uh so it can be very hard to to draw lines in the sand on when this started and when this stopped. Uh so yeah, I would agree with that. But uh the the the spirit or that messenger that uh that um that influencer in the spiritual realm is still there. Yeah, the uh because I believe I believe this, um just as there is the Holy Spirit and and possibly even a an angelic being that as a guardian over each church, uh I also believe that Satan has a messenger appointed to each one of them uh to uh to buffet and rebuke and and and and wreak havoc on.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

So given some of the other things written to the other churches, I think you're dead on in that. Um and and it's mentioned twice uh in two of these churches. Uh right now, here's another thing, and I I'm on a I'm gonna pick a little bit, but I'm picking for you, not against you, brother. These things say to he who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lamp stands. I know your works, your labor, your patience, you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they're apostles and are not, and have found them liars, you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for my name's sake, and not become weary. Again, you got everything doctrinally right here. Yeah, nevertheless, I have this against you that you have left your first love. Verse 5. Remember therefore from where you have fallen, repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place unless you repent. So, for those who like to claim that we will never go back to a first century church, why don't you get in your Bible and why don't you read the book of Revelation specifically, chapter 2, verse 5? Because this is exactly what he's telling them to do. This could be a church bones that's 2,000 years old that can trace it back. This can be a church that's 10 years old. This could be a believer who's getting worn out at five years into his faith walk. Right. That that spirit is there, the human nature is there, and it like again, but maybe there is some greater church age that it applies to, but man, it's still going on. Yeah.

Repentance And The Nicolaitans Warning

SPEAKER_03 19:41

What what's of course you and I have had this conversation off uh off uh off the podcast. Uh I've heard that said from the pulpit that we can't go back to a first century church. I know that's why I bought it up. I I know that's that's why you bought it up. And what I what I meant the other day when we were texting back and forth is when we say we can't go back, we're saying we can't repent. Yeah. Uh because this is the repent right here. Yeah, that's not correct because we're we're being told to repent. And Jesus doesn't tell us to repent if we can't repent. So it just doesn't make any sense. Um, now it talks here about the doctrine of the Nicolacians. Uh, and he's speaking to the follower of uh Nicholas, and he evidently he was a heretic uh back during this particular time. Um, but evidently it was uh uh some set of Gnostic practice that taught impure and immoral doctrines, such as community of wives, uh committing adultery and fornication, uh, all those things were not sinful. Uh and eating meats offered to idols uh was lawful. We hear Paul uh addressing that uh in some of his teachings. Um so I don't know so much about eating meat to idols today. Uh I'd have to search hard for that probably, but the the the immorality, sexual immorality is still running rampant in the world. But this is running rampant in the church, is what is what this is being brought out here. Said, hey, y'all are getting freaky in in the nursery back there, and y'all need to cut it out.

Smyrna The Persecuted Faithful Church

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, yeah. And especially excuse, especially excuse me, look at what's happening today. Look at how many people in the charismatic circles, word of faith circles, all this are getting exposed and not limited to the idea that you can get away with it if you're clergy was one of the things that kind of led to this this deal. Yeah, because that separation, not being accountable, is one of the things that led to it. Well, I'm I'm walking in a deeper revelation, and we're going to get into that in some of these other churches. Again, it's not limited to that. Right, right, right. So Revelation chapter 2, verse 8. Church number 2. And to the angel of the church in Smyrna.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Right. This church ain't getting a rebuke. Spoiler. Pretty cool church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Would you want to go to this church? It's not getting rebuke. These things says the first and the last who was dead and came to life. Keep that in mind as far as this. So he was dead and came to life. I know your works, tribulation, and poverty, but you're rich. And I know the blasphemy, talking about the messenger, like we were just talking about. The blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Where's the encouragement here? No, you're getting ready to suffer more. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you in prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. So there's a some symbolism there. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death. So here's the interesting thing. Again, talking about the judgment, which is really a righteous judgment here. These things say the first and the last who was dead and came to life. He's telling these people, you're getting ready to die, and I'm bringing you back. I have the authority to do it. And we talked about synagogue with Satan. And one of the things that I would encourage people to keep in mind is that pray for Israel. Big believer, God still has a plan for Israel. Is everybody in the land of Israel faithful? Because what what a lot of people don't realize is everybody that that claims to be Jewish, are you practicing the Judaism that was being practiced when Jesus was around? Or did Judaism evolve too? Did it devo did it evolve into different denominations, different schools of thought? Because I guarantee you, most of y'all do not know there's some crazy stuff happened in the middle evil in the medieval times. So so just keep that in mind. All I'm saying, big, big uh, big believer in God still has a plan for Israel, but also don't be gullible.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Uh don't be a patsy for for those that think if it's Jewish, it's right. Not necessarily. Just look at the fruit, is all we're saying. All I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Yeah, this was uh this was the church we said that uh had no no condemnation. Uh so it sounds like oh, that'd be a church I want to be part of. Yeah, it's a persecuted church. Yeah. Okay. Um persecuted church. Uh we're talking about uh let's talk about what happened. Uh see uh who all was emperor during this time. If we want to talk a church age, we're talking about AD 100 to about 312, that time period, maybe. So we're talking about in the Roman Empire, we're talking about this in the time of Nero, uh Dominitian, Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, uh Severus, Maximinius, Decea Decius, uh Valerian, Caligula's probably in there too. Yeah, Aurelian, Diocletian, all of these uh just they they they had it out for Christians. Oh, yeah. Um synagogue of Satan. There was actually a synagogue of Satan, um, is what it was called. It was interesting. There were two basic heresies that emanate from the synagogue of Satan um in the name of Christianity were were apparent. That was before the end of the second century. Um, let's see, they exist to in the time that Christ gave his message to the church, the Ephesus and Smyrna. The heresies are are a false doctrine of Christ and a mixing of law and grace. That was the doctrine of the synagogue of Satan, mixing law and grace. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Well, I would also say this Jesus goes when the Pharisees are trying to do things by their own righteousness. You're of your father, the devil. The devil. He has been a liar, he's been a murderer from the beginning, and you seek to kill me. So you're dealing with a murderous spirit here. Just examine things by their fruits.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

There's enough scripture to interpret scripture here, yeah. And then there's there's plenty of history, history that you can trust that you can read during that time frame and figure out, you know, what was actually what was really going on. So anyway, uh Church of Smyrna, uh, you know, we we call it the perfect church or the person, the church that had no condemnation, but the persecuted church. It was a church that was out there doing things, it was on the move, uh winning souls, but people were dying for it.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

The purification that God's gonna put you through, it's gonna happen one way or another. And what it's saying here, if you're going through it here, you've already been purified. Right. When you get there. And I also like this he who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death. So this is the judgment, you're judged righteous.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

I think we're gonna see this church spirit again in the end times in the in the in the very last days.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

You see it a lot in the missionary fields, true missionary fields, not missionary trips where you're sponsored and all this stuff. And and yeah, there's missionaries and then there's missionaries. And the person that told me that was a missionary.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah, I think you'll see this church spirit uh again in the probably tribulation period.

Pergamum Comfort, Compromise, And Balaam

SPEAKER_00 28:37

But anyway. Revelation 212. And to the angel of the church in Pergamos, church number three, write, these things say he who has a sharp, two-edged sword. I know your works and where you dwell. I know where you live, boy. Uh, I know your works and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. That's always an interesting study. And you hold fast to my name and did not deny my faith, even in the days in which Antipas, my faithful martyr, who was killed among you where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam. Money, money, money, money, money, money. Who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, big no-no, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, already got into that, which I hate. He really hates the doctrine of the Nicolaitans in the works of the Nicolaitans. Yep. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna to eat, and I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name which no one knows except him who receives it. So a couple things here. Isn't there a statue statue of Zeus? Big thing that was called Satan's throne. I know there's a couple different theories about where it actually was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

This was the indulged church, uh, if if you would.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Um it seems that uh Satan learned through uh the um through the Smyrna, the church there at Smyrna, that the more you persecuted the church, the stronger it got. So now we're gonna try the tactic of let's embrace it and see what happens. And as we see as we go through some of the emperors there in Rome, we come up to Constantine. Uh Constantine embraces uh Christianity, but then in that's where we start to see the pagan practices introduced, start to become introduced into church. Um and that's where some of the uh some of the stuff that Jesus talked about, the the seat of Satan and and the doctrine of Balaam and all this stuff start coming into play. Um I think Satan says, Well, I I tried to persecute them and they got stronger, so I'll just uh I'll just move in with them and make them comfortable and see what happens. Well, well, what happens is uh we get we comfortable and we get laxadaisical. So that's what that's what happens here, I think, with the church there at Pergamum. Well Goblin.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Let's look at you hold fast to my name. Yeah. You didn't deny my faith even in the days of which Antipas was my faithful martyr who was killed among you. Didn't we do these?

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Didn't we do this in your name? Didn't we cast out demons in your name? Uh didn't we do all these things in your name?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Well, they've held fast to some kind of integrity here, though. But this is what he has against them. You know, we focus on the things that that we that he has against them, and sometimes we don't talk about what he had for them. It says you're you're you're maintaining integrity, you're you're claiming the name of Christ. You don't deny faith, even when it was costing you. But I have a few things against you because you have those, you have there those that hold the doctrine of Balaam. So it's a money thing. Balaam was about pro he was a true prophet as far as gifting with wrong motives. Wrong motives. This is a guy who knows the Lord, but he's doing it for hire. And so he's giving advice. This is here's some Judas stuff right here, man. Who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel? Here's how you keep him from walking in power. This this is your 501c3 compromise in the modern times. Hey, here's how you keep them from being effective. Let's add a tax exempt status. Uh, and you got to follow these rules to get your tax exempt status, but you got but but your millionaires can write it off. You'll get some big donor class to eat things sacrificed to idols. Well, here's the deal. We know, you know, the thing is you're asking that spirit to bless that food or to animate, you know, and that that was like it do we fully understand this in today's modern times? No. But I'll tell you what, they do they did then. Paul even gets a little bit philosophical about it. He's ah, we know it ain't nothing, but they're sacrificing it to demons, we know that, so you want to be into that. But when Paul goes up and talks to Peter, James, and John, the thing that they say is, we want you to give to the poor, but but when James writes a letter, abstain from sexual immorality, from blood, and from things sacrificed to idols. We're not putting a lot of other commandments on you. So then this is a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I think they understood the importance or I think they understood the power uh that lies in the spiritual realm. Yeah. Uh that uh that gets kind of trampled around, or you just kind of gets overlooked, I guess, um, when we throw our words around. And we have a tendency to do that. Uh we we say stuff, we talk about things and and use words that we really don't know what they mean. And then when we get when we call somebody out on it, they go, oh, it don't it don't mean that, you know. Trick-or-treat, uh, you know, Halloween, Christians celebrating Halloween and stuff like that. Uh it's just one of those things where uh it's it's it's not that big a deal. Uh well spiritually it is. Uh in in a spiritual realm it is. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

What what happens when you eat something? Oh, you you enjoy it. You're probably eating it for the enjoyment.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Well let's say, even if you don't enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Let's say it's your grandma's nasty old Brussels sprouts. I was gonna say, so it's probably a salad.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

I'd like a decent salad myself, but still give me meat.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Um if you eat something, good or bad, it becomes part of you.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

You absorb it. So if you had something that was sacrificed to idols to some demonic spirit, you you've you've chewed on it enough, you've digested it, and now it's starting to become part of you.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Ultra processed foods.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

You look at it, compared to you, look at how many people are fat compared to 70 years ago before they started pro ultra-processing the food. Generation. You're taking stuff in that's not good for you. You're taking stuff in spiritually here that's not good for you. And it's becoming part of you without you knowing it.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And I guess it should really be it really should be as simple as if a demonic spirit has blessed you, why would you even want to touch it? Yeah. I mean, we we really should be drawing the line right there.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

But the but the fact that we don't uh is an indictment on our belief in the spiritual realm.

unknown 37:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Talking with a buddy, uh, we'd both worked with him back in the day, and I I still work with him, even though we're different places. He he mentioned something today, talking about Louisiana. Yeah, I lived in New Orleans for a school year, and one of the things they tell you, when them voodoo women tried to feed you this or feed you that, a couple dishes in particular, it was a way it was a point of entry spiritually for them to be able to manipulate you and do other things. Now, it's not more powerful than the blood of Jesus, but the thing is, these are things that you're doing unaware. Right. So that is what it is, but taught to put stumbling blocks before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Man, I see this with so many uh big-time churches that are doing this and calling themselves progressive. Yeah, shit's outlawed. I mean, pardon my French, but I mean, how much blatantly can you just disregard what the word of God is saying, and you're claiming you're so educated and you're doing it, but there there's a lot of uh things that are purported, a lot of them are embedded, so it's kind of like this same thing. Now you're in league with DC. Now you're in league with Rome. Now you're in league, and who knows? Maybe maybe Pergamos was a code name for, you know, because you couldn't say Rome. Right. Or else they're coming to get you again. But here's these things, these these ministers that are holding the way of Balaam, they're getting paid, reimbursed, to put stumbling blocks before the believers, to have them commit immorality, telling them it's okay, and they have a greater understanding, and again, that you hold to the doctrine of Nicolaitans, which I which thing I hate. And again, one of the manifestations of that was the minister's up here and you're down there. Repent, or else I will come quickly and fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Let me just say it. A lot of urban black churches I've seen this exact same thing. Not limited to. But, oh yeah, a bishop can get away with whatever he wants. And do this, and he's preaching it's okay to be homosexual, and he's out there preaching it's okay, it's just an expression of your body and all this stuff, it's okay to do this. Matter of fact, if you got to get an abortion, it's probably the most kind thing you can do for that baby.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Demonic doctrines. Yeah.

unknown 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

It's out to and for profit. Why? Because we're finding out a little news story going on. You're finding out certain organizations were donating to a lot of things, and we've been saying that for years, Bones.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Oh, I've been saying that for two decades. Yeah. Uh talking about tax havens for the rich. Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Tax shelters. Yeah, and and and your not-for-profits and the different things that the not-for-profits that are paying the other not-for-profits, so the the dirty work that's getting done ain't can't get traced back to who's really funding it.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Not for profit doesn't mean not for pay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

That's the thing.

Thyatira Jezebel, Ego, And Manipulation

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Here's another thing here. Sharp two-edged sword. So what's the judgment? Repent, or I will come quickly and fight against him with the sword in my mouth. He's going to use the word to show how bogus you are. Nevertheless, consider this. These churches have sincere believers in them. Yeah, they do. Look, he who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says. The churches to him who overcomes this situation, I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. I will give him a white stone. Man, we are living stones. Being built up into a spiritual house, Paul said. And on the stone a new name written, which no one knows except him who receives it. That is relationship right there. Yep. If you have relationship, it'll keep you from getting involved in all the BS that's going on. Revelation 2, verse 18. Church number four. And to the angel of the church and Thyatira, right? These things said the Son of God who has eyes like a flame of fire and his feet like fine brass. So these are eyes that penetrate. This is fine brass because, again, he's like you said, humanity as well as judgment. The brazen altar was an altar of judgment. Right. Why do you need to be judged? Because you're human. Verse 19 I know your works, love, service, faith, patience. As far as your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless, I have a few things against you because you allow that woman, Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed, I will cast her into a sick bed, and to those who commit adultery with her in the great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and the churches shall know, all the churches shall know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. Here's the eyes of flame right here, and will give to each one of you according to your works. There's the feet of brass, there's judgment right there. So you see how this is coded in there, and he's telegraphing what he's going to do. Now to you I say, and the rest in thy attire, as many as do not have this doctrine, again, there's some that are pure, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden, but will hold fast to what you have till I come, and he who overcomes and keeps my word until the end, to him I will give power over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and they shall be dashed to pieces like potter's vessels, as I have also received from my father, and I will give him the morning star, which was kind of like a scepter here. So here's authority. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. One of the interesting things to me is you've got the same activities, maybe a little bit different motives. Uh you've got you got the same, they're doing works, but the previous church, you got you. Those that are doing that teaching sexual immorality to eat things sacrificed to idols, but the motives are a little bit different here. The previous one is for profit. This one is to be called a prophetess. This one is ego. I know it's psychological, but I remember reading the book by Jordan Peterson, where he was talking about the thing about man and woman in the garden, Adam and Eve. What does male pride look like? Oh, I got it. I can do that. I can do that. The woman's pride, her ego, run amuck, out of check, is I'm so loving that my compassion will negate all consequences for whatever action because I'm such a good person.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

I look at this and and I call this the the effeminate church. Very much so. Yeah, the effeminate church, uh, where you have the the womanly spirit, the the power behind the throne, if you if you if you would. Um the the neutered church, the effeminate church. Uh we've talked about that before. I know we have.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Well, you you look at a lot of them. I mean so you don't have to get in trouble, let me just call it like it is. You're gonna see this with a lot of women pastors and bishops.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Not not all.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Uh, but especially you look at like a lot of your episcopals and a lot of your a lot of your modern Methodist and different things like that, and you're seeing this, you go, good lord. Here it is. Here's the thing, it's already been addressed. I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality. It what what the interesting thing here is, he's going, you got some in here that are that have held tight, but in this he's saying, I'm judging the clergy.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

What about those first ladies who are using using their bodies, using sex to influence their pastors, their husbands? Saying it. Yeah, that's sexual immorality. Uh that's the you know, the the withholding. And when the pat when you know when they don't do when they're when their husbands, the pastors don't do what they they want, they withhold.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

And teaching others to do the same. And teaching others to do the same thing. Sex is a way of manipulation.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Sex is a way of manipulation. Yeah, it it happens, it's out there. Um, but yeah, it's uh it that's what the the Jezebel spirit. Uh you can go back and read your Bible on Jezebel and what she did and how she was uh the power behind the throne. She didn't want to sit in the hot seat, uh, but she wanted to control the hot seat. Um, and you'll you'll see you'll see some of that in our churches today still, I think.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Uh verse 23. Talk about redundant here. I will kill her children with death. Well, what else are you going to kill them with?

SPEAKER_02 47:06

I mean, I will kill her children with death.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Here's the thing that gets me that to me that almost implies a self-destruction. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe I'm not. This is get in the word for yourself. Get in the word for yourself. And all the churches shall know I am he who searches the minds and hearts, because that's going to all be revealed. And I will give each one of you according to your works. So again, you know what I mentioned with uh Dr. Peterson, he was like the that female persona, when it's prideful and the ego is not in check, oh, nothing to happen because of all my compassion, and I'm a good person, and I can just love him beyond this. And he's going, Nope. Consequences. I'm going to give each one of you according to your works, because I see. My eyes are a flame of fire, my feet are fine brass. I see and I judge. And because of that brass being humanity, he's the only one that's fit to judge. Right.

unknown 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

But but I like what he says. For those of you that didn't do that, and there there was also um listening to a lecture about a month ago, uh, it was on some Jewish mysticism. And when I mentioned that it wasn't the same as some of some of the sects of Judaism definitely ain't the same as what was going on in biblical times. Um one of their ideas was um the more you could sin and then be redeemed, then the more glory that God got for that. Paul references that. He said, You're saying, oh, let us do evil that good may come. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's refuting that idea. But this knowing the depths of Satan, that's exactly that mindset. Let's see how perverted, let's see how much we can fall to show how much God's love is going to redeem us, and then God gets the glory. And he's like, Nope, that ain't a me.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

I wonder how much strife and contention this was causing in the churches. Um these folks must be exhausted. Yeah. But for Jesus to say, you know, to the ones who who aren't buying into this, hold what you got. I'm not putting any more, I'm not putting any more burden on you. You you hold what you got. That because you got to be exhausted.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

I'm reading a little bit into this, but I'm reading into what I've seen through my experience. I bet you the strife is content and contention is among the folks doing it. And these here in verse 25 uh and verse 24, hold fast to what you have until I come. I'm thinking it's about like Lot who's grieved. Right, right. Well, yeah, and if you overcome and keep my works until the end, you don't buy into it. I'm gonna give you power over the nations.

unknown 50:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

So if you've ever if you've ever watched family or or people that you love fight and squabble and argue, it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Yeah. And it hurt. And especially when you know they're not doing the right thing. You know, you're just like, good lord, you you're grieved. But but he said, but one of the interesting things about this is even those where he's giving this these admonishments to, for the people that aren't buying into it, for the people that are staying faithful to Jesus, he has this promise in every one of those. He has a promise. Hey, you've been faithful, and what does he say to he who overcomes? So even with the admonishments, he's ending this with an overcoming. And uh he's also gonna see he goes back to you're gonna you're gonna rule with a rod of iron. This is extra, this is authority to exercise. Uh, they shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels, as I have received from my father, and I will give him a morning star, which is a scepter. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches. So here's the thing. Paul talked about a messenger, a thorn, uh messenger of Satan, a thorn in the flesh. And he's saying, My grace is sufficient for you. You might be in these things, don't be of those things. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Yeah, I agree.

Promises To Overcomers And Closing

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Hey everybody, thanks for listening. Make sure you tune in next week when we conclude the discussion of the seven churches of Revelation and what that means. You can always check us out at woefo.org or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or even check us out on YouTube. Remember, if you're going to grow, you got a Wofo Yo. Get in the word for yourself.