WOFOYO Short: When The Letter Kills

“The Bible says it, that settles it” can sound strong, but what happens when your heart is still unsettled and your questions keep getting deeper? We tell a story that will feel familiar to anyone who has tried to pursue genuine Christian growth inside a system that prefers simple answers over honest seeking. When curiosity gets labeled rebellion, the result is often a crisis, and sometimes that crisis is the doorway to real transformation.

We walk through the difference between Scripture and a denomination’s interpretation, and why pre packaged theology can end up overdefining the Word of God while underapplying it to the places that actually need healing: ego, fear, performance, and the facades we build to look “good.” We also talk about what it looks like to follow the voice of the Holy Spirit with discernment, and how guidance can show up as perfectly timed books, people, and nudges that confirm you are on the right path.

Along the way, we connect this lived, Spirit-led faith to the stream of Christian mysticism and spiritual formation, from Brother Lawrence’s Practicing the Presence of God to historic voices like Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross. The point is not to chase hype or win arguments, but to remember that experience with God changes you in a way debate never can, and that theology should build believers rather than build walls.

If you’ve been stuck between doctrine fights and a hunger for real relationship with Jesus, this conversation will challenge you and steady you. 

https://wofoyo.org/               #wofoyo

Transcript

Welcome And Core Theme

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome to another WoeFo Yo short. This is C Dub. We're going to call this uh the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. I it's always amazing and very, very interesting to me when I run across somebody who has had a similar experience, they might use different terms, they might use different definitions, but if you walk the walk, you go, holy cow, this guy's done it, or this gal's done it, or she's experienced the same things, or he's experienced the same things. It is always interesting. You know, one of the reasons Bones and I were so tight, or are so tight, as well as another guy I mentioned named Daryl Colson. We were experienced the same things at the same time. Coulson a little bit later, but we end up having the same elements of our walk.

A Pastor’s Questions Meet Resistance

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I met a guy a little while ago last year, ran into him again here in early June, and he has this account that he had written. I'm like, holy cow! As I'm reading this, I'm like, my eyes got great big, and I go, I know this path. And basically what happens is this guy was his name is Josh, and he's given an account of how he feels this call at a young age. He answers the call, he becomes a youth pastor, Baptist youth pastor, becomes a church planner, you know, he goes to Bible college, all this stuff. The exact same path that you know Bones and I were on, and you know, not necessarily Baptists with me, uh, though, as you know from the last short, got a great amount of respect for the Baptist. But he had these questions, and what he found was pretty much the same thing that Bones and I found, was the denomination kind of look down at you for asking the questions. They're questions of seeking, they're questions of seeking a deeper relationship. However, for those that aren't seeking a deeper relationship with Christ, a deeper relationship with the Spirit of God, what can happen is to those who haven't, who aren't even seeking it and haven't experienced it, if we're not careful, that looks like rebellion. That looks like the fact that I'm asking questions is a challenge. And therefore, it is treated cautiously, if not with contempt. So this guy has this crisis moment. What he found out, he he said whenever he would ask a deeper question, he always got this standard Baptist answer. The Bible says it, that settles it. Well, indeed, if the Bible says it, that does settle it. But what he found was it wasn't really the Bible saying it, it was the Baptist's take on the Bible was saying that. It was the Baptist theology was saying that. And it just wasn't answering the questions he had. And it was, you know, these cut and dry, pre-packaged, standard answers. True relationship with Jesus Christ, it's not neat. It's it's going to expose your shortcomings, and you're going to have to have some kind of reconciling there. There's going to have to be a crucifying of the ego. You're going to find out, um, kind of like this guy that wrote wrote this account of where he was at, he ends up coming to a moment of crisis, and basically he has to reconcile that all this facade that he had put up, and not just that he had put up, but that he had been told if you're a good Baptist, if you're a good Christian, if you're a good youth pastor, if you're a good pastor, church planner, this is what you do. He said, That was not me. And so he ends up having a moment of crisis, which begins his journey. A little bit different for Bones and I, but us starting the journey led to a moment of crisis which really nailed it in. And so we've talked about this several times about how I said that the word of God was overdefined and underapplied.

Following The Voice And Synchronicity

SPEAKER_00 4:48

What this guy's given in his account is basically this. Again, he used some different terminology than I would have used, but he said, I started stepping out and following the voice. When I did, it was amazing how I got the right word at the right time, I got the right book at the right time, the right people were just showing up. He called it synchronicity, didn't use as fancy a term, but uh yeah, I call it the Holy Ghost Matrix. It was like that movie, all of a sudden you need something, and there it is. Or you have a question, and the Lord's like, you're on the right path. Here's a couple road signs to let you know that you're on the right path. And about the time you think that you've gone past it, you're like, nope, you need to turn here just a little bit or keep going. You're almost there. The Bible says, I believe Paul says, the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life, to quote the old King

Christian Mystics And Lived Faith

SPEAKER_00 5:45

James. You know, there is a history of Christian mystics. I remember getting a book by a guy named Brother Lawrence, and Brother Lawrence was 1600s, and he was a monk, and I remember the first time I read this, I was I was getting down my word, you know, knowing the word, and I'm like, this dude's just talking about having a relationship, and I don't quite get it. And that was very very early on in my walk, and I ended up reading this same book. I had it in my storage bin and started pulling some books out and reading it about three, four years, and I'm like, holy cow, this book is great. So, Brother Lawrence, uh practicing the presence of God. There was um like the most modern one that I can recall was it was a dude named Thomas Merton. Um Saint Teresa. Um this because I grew up Catholic, also cause a Google. Uh but Saint Teresa uh was a mystic nun. Um I remember uh there was a dude named Saint John of the Cross, very mystical in his experience, and also even uh St. Bernard and probably the most famous mystical monk of them all was uh Saint Francis of Assisi. And so these really start to, these really start to turn up right around a thousand AD and pretty much going from a thousand AD all the way up to the late 1600s, and then you still have some that are now. But the biggest thing now is rather than just read their experiences, a lot of times you get to see this stuff walked out. Well, what the guy said in his account, he said once he learned to follow the voice of the Lord, it led him in into all these other experiences. And then he said, not all at once. There were some messy things that had to get revealed, there were some issues, there were some facades that had to get broken up, there was some ego that had to get crucified. But once he did that, then as uh you call this guy a mystic, you might call him

Experience Versus Arguments And Labels

SPEAKER_00 8:05

a couple other things too. But I remember the quote by uh Benny Hinn in the in the book, Good Morning, Holy Spirit, very mystical. Uh Catherine Kuhlman was a very mystical uh modern day person. But Benny Hinn said, a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. And so you can say, well, that's just you know, the our theology doesn't teach that, and we we're we go back to the 300s, or we go back to Peter, or we go, we go back to John Wesley, or whoever. It doesn't matter because you've walked it out and you've lived it. And here's the thing because you have that experience, it's now yours. And when you have that, there is nothing they can say, and the answers you were looking for, you're getting. Now, does that mean that you're going to be the most eloquent at being able to teach others? Not necessarily. I wouldn't say I am, although I do have a knack for saying stuff in a way that people get the point. That's so I'm told. In this time where everybody's getting down on theology and this doctrine versus that doctrine, and everybody wants to pick a fight with it, there is not even being used properly. Rather than build you up, it's being used to build walls between believers, and that's definitely not the proper use.

Challenge To Listen And Grow

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Be open to hearing the voice of God. Be open that maybe your understanding that's put forth by your denomination or your Bible college, uh, your tradition, understand that maybe it might just be knowing in part and prophesying in part. Hell, it might be just dang wrong. John said in one of his letters, you have no need that any man teach you. Jesus said, when he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. I would like to challenge you, because I challenge myself. Get in the word for yourself, but also be open to hearing and following and obeying the voice of the Holy Spirit. Woe FOYO. Everybody, thanks for listening. We hope this challenges you and causes you to grow. You can always check us out at woefoyo.org or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Audible, even check us out on YouTube. For bones and myself, this is C Dub, reminding you that if you want to grow, you've got a Woe FO Yo. Get in the word for yourself.