Value And Worth In The Wilderness

What do you actually value when you’re seeking God and are you willing to become someone who brings value, too? We start with Jesus’ sharp question about John the Baptist, “What did you go out to see,” and let it expose the stuff we usually keep hidden: mixed motives, ego, and the quiet desire for a safe, prepackaged faith that never asks much from us.

From there, we talk value and worth in a practical, lived way. We connect 1 Corinthians 12 and spiritual gifts to everyday discipleship, and we revisit David’s line about refusing an offering that “cost me nothing.” That idea hits home when we look at modern church culture and the temptation to trade tangible spiritual growth for shallow answers, Christian catchphrases, or a polished facade that can’t survive a real crisis. We also get honest about how a distorted view of God the Father can crush self-worth, and why seeing His character clearly changes everything.

The conversation moves into wilderness seasons and the dark night of the soul, those stretches where meaning collapses and God strips away what’s fake so something true can live. We talk fear as a fog you can push through, the refining that comes through failure, and the kind of quiet mentorship and friendship that adds more value than any flashy upgrade. If you’ve ever wondered why “good theology” didn’t feel like enough when life got heavy, you’ll feel right at home here. 

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Transcript

Satirical Seminary Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This episode of the Woe Folio Podcast has been brought to you by Ichabod Seminary in Bible College. You're on fire for the Lord. The preacher called you out during the altar call and announced to the whole congregation that you have a call on your life. Well, we hate to break it to you, but none of that matters unless you have the right theology. That's where we come in. We're Ichabod Seminary in Bible College. At Ichabods, we'll get you bogged down in Greek and Hebrew before you learn how to apply the word in English. Learn to appreciate the quagmire of theological debate. Discover how to excuse sin if the party committing it is viewed as oppressed or marginalized. Imagine the relief and fulfillment you'll deceive yourself into feeling as you learn to use homiletics to make the words say what you want instead of what God originally intended. Know true fulfillment by submitting your God-given gifts to denominational authority. Why heal the sick and prophesy when you can be in submission to your pastor? At Ichabod Seminary and Bible College, we'll educate the Holy Ghost right out of you. Remember, at Ichabod's, we do our part to help the glory depart. Amen.

A Theme That Won’t Let Go

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So if my voice sounds a little bit scratchy or off, that's that's why. Got a little bit different take on some things. Every now and then you have like the same message just keeps coming at you from all fronts. So since the same message is coming at me from all fronts, let's just throw it out there, talk about it, talk about what the Bible says, talk about it in terms of our Christian experience, the term most people use today in the modern church, but but let's talk about let's talk about your walk with the Lord as well, because that's the way us old timers would say it.

What Did You Go Out To See

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Couple verses here, since we like to get in the word for ourselves. Luke chapter 7, verses 24 through 26. When the messengers of John had departed, he began to speak to the multitudes concerning John. What did you go out in the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in king's courts. But what did you go out to see? A prophet? And yes, I say to you, more than a prophet. The key thing that just stood out during this whole thing, and we we referenced it here recently, is Jesus is asking the people, What did you go out to see? He's going to tell you who John is. There's there's things that the wilderness bought out of us, and what the Lord really exposed is what we thought we were looking for, at least what we were taught to say that we're we were we were looking for, it really wasn't what we were looking for. And to be quite honest, he had to get us to where we what we said we were looking for. He had to get that not only in proper alignment, but he had to get our hearts and our tongues united because we said we were looking for this, but man, our motives kind of we had to have some things happen that expose that our motives were a little bit selfish, a little bit self-centered, a little bit ego-driven. So that that was part of the experience as well. Right

Value And Worth In Your Walk

SPEAKER_00 4:26

before recording this, uh, confirmation after confirmation, this this theme of value is has just been coming across my plate the last two, three weeks. Um a lot of people have said, well, you know, if you're if you have a customer, what what value are you giving to the customer? If you have somebody that that joins your joins your organization, let's say you're helping out, oh, it'd be a good idea to get a thing together and help out with fireworks, shoot across, okay, well, what value does that add? And one of the things that really factors into that for me is, you know, Paul said over in 1 Corinthians, over in 12 uh 28, he's talking about all these gifts of the Spirit, but then he's saying, it's the same Spirit. You know, when we get into all these giftings, uh God has appointed these in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, and then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, administrators, varieties of tongues. Paul's saying you're looking for a value, but then you also have value. So there has to be in your walk with the Lord, you're looking for something, but you also got to be willing to be of value yourself. Jesus talked about being salt and light. You know, uh, if you're if the salt loses saltiness, it's good for nothing. So let your light so shine before men that they can see your good works and glorify your father in heaven. Uh, one other thing is uh 1 Chronicles, like the way it said here, 21-24. King David said to Ornan, this is right after he makes a major boo-boo. This leads to the building of the temple eventually. He sees the angel of the Lord basically getting ready to kill the rest of the city, and he offers up a sacrifice, he offers to buy this floor from Ornan. Uh, over in 2 Samuel, it's said Aruna, the same guy. One is in shorthand, I'm sure. Uh Orn says, Man, you're the king. Take it. He said, No, but I will surely buy it for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the Lord, nor burnt offerings with that which cost me nothing. So here's the deal. We're on here, we're we're podcasting. Big question we we should probably be asking is what kind of value are we giving? Um because we're not requiring anything of you. Just tune in, listen. Um, I know this that the things that we thought of value for us in the church really didn't amount to a hill of means. You know, Paul talked about all his qualifications and all the things that he held near and dear. He said, I learned to count him as dung. There's a there's a Villaridge way of saying that. We won't repeat it here. What's the value? What are you looking for as a believer? And guess what? You might be geared toward to look for different things. You know, we know and pro we know in part, we prophesy in part. What you're looking for might be different. Doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong, although with some of the stuff that we were looking for, it was. But that's really for you and the Lord to figure out, and for for the Holy Spirit to show you. But what do you value? What are you looking in a real for in a relationship? What what do you expect to find? And and I think the answer with both of us was, you know, with Jesus, he said, so you think you you were going out to see all this and trying to find John the Baptist? You you thought you were seeing this, you thought you were seeing that. He said, Oh, it's a lot more than that. And that's the one that's the one thing about it. When you actually start to walk with the Lord, you find out that there's a lot more to it than what you initially thought.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Paul Hellman told me one time I asked him about the car that I wanted to buy, told him what I was looking at and what they wanted for, and told him if I thought if he thought that was a good deal. He said, Well, value and worth is often dependent upon the buyer and the seller. And I have heard that in my in my mind's ear so many times since he's said that decades ago. Value and worth is dependent upon the buyer and the seller. Um, the value that you place on something um may not be the same value that someone else places on something. Yeah.

Seeking Before You Know Why

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Um so as you were reading that passage there, and I kept, you know, I was listening to that, you know, what did you come out here to see? I wonder if very many of those folks even knew what they were coming out to see.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

You know, uh, because we're like that sometimes. Uh how many times do we open our Bibles to read it and we really don't know what we're looking for? We just know that we need to be reading or that we have an unction to read. Yes. You know, um, and then once we get into it, we kind of discover what we're what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

What we're there for. Yeah, that reminds me of Moses. Just minding his business. There's this burning bush. I will turn aside to see this site. Well, you're getting a little bit more than you bargain for, buddy. Right. You're stepping into your calling, and there's times I read the Bible just to read it.

unknown 11:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Ain't gonna hurt you none. And then there's times that the Lord say, Hey, turn here. Right, turn here. Yeah, there's more. Keep digging, keep digging, keep digging. And they here's the thing. I've had the Lord speak to me and had things pop out just in my daily reading, but usually there's a little bit more urgency when he says, Turn to this book.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Right. Right. Value and worth. I mean, um we put out the podcast, we talk on here, and a lot of times we're just kicking the bobos and and and things of that sort. Um, but we can't we can't even believe, or we can't even begin to ascribe worth. Um, because there's there's folks out there that I would venture, you know, would would ascribe little worth to what they're hearing. There's folks that would ascribe a lot of worth to what they're hearing. Yep. Um, so uh once again, value and worth depending upon the buyer and the seller. Um another thing that I took from that is it takes uh two parties there at least. Yeah. You know, there's there's uh there's a giver and a taker, so to so to speak. So you gotta have that.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Quote your Star Wars there. There's always two, the master and the apprentice. But who's the master and who's the apprentice? Whether you know it or not, in this relationship with the one living and true God, creator of all things, who values you enough to give his only begotten son as a sacrifice, as an atonement, as a propitiation for all you old King Jamers out there. And then he values you enough to give you his spirit. So he values you, but but you're at the same time, we're looking for something. And I know that sounds awful selfish to say, but if you're seeking, you're searching, you're looking for something. You might not have, and you probably don't, have the full idea of what you're what you're embarking on in this quest to have this relationship with God. You're you're gonna find out that not only is his value way more than what you thought, you're probably gonna find out that your value is way more than you thought. But to get you to where you're of use, there's gonna have to be a little bit of a purification. There has to be some of this old man done away with. Doesn't really change who you are. The Lord starts working on you, it don't mean you're gonna go from uh heavy metal to southern gospel and what you like to listen to, especially if you're in a weight room. You know, you just ain't you ain't gonna deadlift to the Statler brothers. It ain't happening. I did like me some Statler brothers back in the day. But you're gonna find out that to be of more value and of more use, that there's gonna have to be some purifying. You're you're gonna have to deal with some of the things that are hindering you, which a lot of times what is hindering you is you.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. Here's Jesus asking this question numerous times. Um, and it reminds me of of the GPS. When you're when you're driving and you get off course a little bit, and it says recalculating, recalculating, recalculating. The whole time it's trying to get your attention, trying to tell you that, hey, you're in the wrong spot, need to be over here. That's kind of kind of what Jesus is doing right here. Yeah. What did you what did you come out to see? You know, he's I would say he's probably uh doing a little bit of mind reading. He knows their thoughts, and he's going, what what did you come out to see?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Proceed to the root.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Proceed to the root. There you go. Uh that always gets me going. But proceed to the root, I've tried to proceed to the root. I don't know which way the root is. Uh but uh yeah. So you so you have Jesus who's reminding us, proceed to the root. And sometimes we got to get things into focus a little bit too. Um

Fixing A Distorted View Of God

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I found out for me once I got a solid picture of who God is, a solid picture of the Father, that changed a lot for me. Um because I had I had some misconceptions about who God is and what God is. Um I had uh I guess if I wanted to get theological, um, I I had I had God in the wrong dispensation. Uh I had I had this mean whack-a-mole full of wrath, waiting to smite me, kind of God, uh, in my head for a long time. And uh and he is that, he can be that, um, but not right now. Uh that period's coming. Um, but once I understood uh who who God is and and what he is, and once I got a clearer picture of his nature and character, that changed a lot for me. Um, that allowed me to see uh my own worth and value. Because then well, that allowed me to see that I had worth and value uh in him. Because it's it's hard to picture any type of self-worth when you think that God is trying to whack-a-mole you every time that you step out of line. That's that's counterintuitive, I think.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

That that was one of the big heresies of the Gnostics, and not all the Gnostics, but there were certain, there were different divisions of those. One of the things they were teaching was uh that God the Father was mean.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

He was hard, he was he was a warmonger. And then Jesus came to restore us to, you know, but but it's this idea they had a wrong idea of the Father, therefore their explanation of Jesus ended up getting very, very skewed and the same thing, and they ended up uh, you know, kind of fusing that with some more Eastern uh religions and different things like that. The the idea of what we have for the Father, it's gonna affect everything. It's gonna affect how we view, well, probably our relationship with our earthly father is going to affect how we view um our heavenly father. And you know what? Granted, fathers are there to give us standards, they're they're there to let you know if you measure up or not. You know, my moms are always loving moms, you know, most moms. And you know, they're gonna be nurturing and stuff, but eventually dad's gonna tell you that no, that that wasn't good enough. Right. Oh, don't be too hard on them. It's there's a time to be hard. There's a time to be tough. It's still loving, still fair, still tough. But there's these standards. You know,

When Theology Blocks Real Questions

SPEAKER_00 18:49

while you were mentioning that, uh really haven't had a chance to talk to you since I I did a met this guy a couple times. He had a book he was selling. Not going to mention the name of the book because it's not really there's some there's some other things about the book. I'm not gonna endorse it on the show. Right. However, he was talking about his experience, and uh the dude's name was Josh, and he basically comes right out and says it. He says, you know, in searching for God, he said, I had all these questions. And so when we talk about value, you know, how do you value God? How does God value you? Um I think the church has to uh, we as the church, as well as the organized church, we have to take a proper assessment. Is what kind of value are you are we offering to people? Um are we offering something that's pre-packaged and shallow? Because this guy here, he has the call at 12 years old. Dad was a Baptist pastor, and so he answers the call, and I'm going, man, oh boy, I can I can see everything that's getting ready to happen. And then it happened even more than it happened to us. But he said, you know, I I become a youth pastor, I go to Bible college, I go become a church planner and all this, and and I'm still having these questions. And I'm he said, there's things that I'm dealing with personally, but I can never show it because now I have the facade. And it ends with him laying down the ministry, it ends with him getting the divorce, you know, that and that, uh, ends with him being, or say ends, you know, that period of his life.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Ends with him getting in a car wreck, getting hooked on opioids due to the car wreck, and finally trying to take his own life. At which time God starts to speak to him. He had to get that low. I didn't get that low. I wasn't that far off, you know, wasn't hooked on nothing. Probably was close with alcohol there for a minute. But all this stuff, and here's the thing, I knew the voice of the Lord. And you can still go through these these issues. So this got him on a more personal walk with God. Um, you know, I mentioned it over in the short. He he he began a more mystical journey, this personal thing, rather than getting bogged down in all the church, but he said his main frustration was this. He said, You're looking for answers. No, he said one of his main frustrations was this, and all the time that he was searching, and all these times he was having doubts about himself, and all the times that he's dealing with these issues, he's told, Oh. You know, he he's wanting to know the Lord. The problem is, the thing that's really keeping him to know for actually having that relationship, he said it was his own Baptist theology and all the doctrine, because whenever he had a legitimate seeking question, the the the the quote that he would put in his book was the Bible says it, that settles it. Now here's the deal. The Bible says it. Sure, it's settled. What does it mean? There you go. And so what he what he found out was when all these people were doing the punchlines here, the the pre-packaged response, he said they weren't really saying what the Bible was saying. It was some pre-packaged theological, proper according to the Baptist way that the Bible said it, but it wasn't answering my questions. Amen. And I I I thought of you uh just hadn't so so I go, next time I see this guy, we're we're we're we're gonna we're gonna have us a coffee or an adult beverage or something, and we're gonna sit back and talk about this. Because nothing against the Baptist per se. I wasn't in a Baptist denomination when all when I was going through that phase, wasn't where I was. But but I guarantee you, I was attending a church of God, although I never officially joined. Yeah. The Lord told me don't. So just be usable. Learned a lot of lessons doing that. You know, you know, here's the thing. What does the Bible say? A lot of times we're going to get some pre-packaged, shallow response that for the person who's really going through it doesn't add any value at all. As a matter of fact, it becomes a barrier to the one who can answer the question. You know, because what the way it makes you feel when you get, well, the Bible says it and that settles it. And by the way, you know, you want to come up with your theological response, whether you're a Calvinist or whether you're a Wesleyan or whether I don't care for the persons that sit for the person that's seeking. Guess what? A lot of times the value is finding it out for themselves. That's why we call it get in the word for yourself. If you're giving some pre-packaged response, you're you're no better than Job's friends were. Right. Because they're giving these theologically sound responses, except it wasn't what the Lord's saying. And so the problem is, as an organization, as a body, as a fellow believer in Christ, when you have your brother or sister in the Lord, or just somebody that's seeking is coming to you, what kind of value are you giving them? Because for the guy that wrote this book, it it was frustration after frustration after frustration after frustration. But also there's this element, since we're going there, that if I can give you this pre-packaged response, this sacrifice that cost me nothing, then I don't really have to address that question for myself.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah. Uh reading it from an academic perspective, um, but have not have not put it, have not applied it to their life. And not just, I mean, I say not applied it to life, I'm I don't I don't necessarily just mean they're living a good moral life. Um, but bottom line, I haven't been smacked in the forehead with it yet.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

You haven't reached that crisis moment yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Haven't reached that crisis yet. Um, because there's a there's a lot to be said, there's a lot to be read between the ink and the page.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

That uh you just don't get when you're reading through there looking for doctrine and theology. Um, because you can theologize and and and doctrinalize yourself into a corner real quick, and then you've got to you gotta die on that hill. Uh somebody's gonna make you die on that hill. There you'll get to that argument and you'll have to die on that hill. You're gonna have to choose which hill you die on. Um, and the thing about reading the Bible as academia and knowing all the doctrines and theologies, the thing about all that is when push comes to shove, um, none of that's gonna help you. When you're down on your hands and knees on the floor, bawling and crying, uh literal, literal tears, because your house is about to be foreclosed on, because your child is in the hospital with Lord knows what kind of condition. Um, whatever your crisis of faith is, none of that academic, I'll tell you what, would it's one of the reasons I refuse to see to see any type of or see any type of uh Christian counseling or anything like that. Because all they want to do is throw scripture at you and and and and pray for you, um, which are not bad things in and of itself, but when you're at that point in your life where you need some kind of guidance or counseling or help, whether it's marriage counseling, whether it's life counseling, I mean, whatever the counseling may be, if you're at that point where you're reaching out for help, man, you need something more tangible than some prayer. Um you need some some help. And that's really what the Little Sea Church, all they offer these days is we'll pray for you, and you can do anything. Uh I can, you know, I can do anything through through Jesus Christ who strengthens me and all these all all the catchphrase verses, which are true. They are true, but you have to go through these these trials. You have to go through them, you have to be brought through them uh so that you can see God's work in action. Um and then when you once you've come through them, the next time those trials and tribulations, that crisis of faith comes up, you look back on it, you've got um, you've got a waypoint to look back on, you've got a well to draw from. Uh you've got all those catchphrases that the Pentecostals use uh, you know, in in their uh in their preaching and teaching. Uh, because we pick on the Baptists, we'll pick on the Pentecostals a bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Uh so but but you have to go through them.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Well, the they they they say them. And don't get me wrong, good motivation. Use them when I'm working out still.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

But it's a little bit different when you're when you're experiencing it. And that that's kind of the gist of what what this guy's book, you know, that that I read. Um he's like, I found out I hadn't been applying any of it. I've been going through a bunch of church stuff and then putting up this facade. Uh oh man, I was gonna hit on that too.

Dropping The Facade Under Pressure

SPEAKER_00 30:04

So so so come across a thing, and and I put this out on the short, and I don't mind revisiting it, but there was an element of Christianity. Here's the thing the denominational structure, or even the non-denominational structure of things, a lot of times it can you can have things so overstructured that it prevents you from having this mystical experience with Jesus Christ. And there was a lot of things that you know we we hear names. Oh, yes, that was the prayer of Saint Francis. Oh, this was that the these were some these were some mystical people. The prayer of Jabez. Yeah, get me all on the prayer of Jabez. How in the world are you gonna have a two-paragraph thing that you make into a book? Little coffee table book, and this is the latest, greatest thing for three months. Let me let me just let me just the church sucker moms love it. Oh man. And how much of who's running the show? I just remember shaking my head. Man, I was eating up Christian TV back then, like nobody's business. And one one of the guys I like to pick on, although though I have a certain amount of respect for him, John Hagare. Give him praise and glory. Well, he comes on, he's preaching about the prayer of Jay Bez. I'm like, dude, I guarantee you, there you ain't preached about the prayer of Jay Bez one doggone time in your life, but everybody's reading it, so now you're gonna jump on the bandwagon for uh your marketing team said, Hey, you might want to catch on this. And you put it on TV just to show that you're on board with the Christian TV crew.

unknown 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Play a ball.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

So one of the things I found that one of the things that had to be dealt with in me was getting getting past that facade. You know, you mentioned earlier about you know having you know going through these things, uh, but uh you can't because I'm this or because I'm that in the church, I can't let people see it. Yeah. That is horseshit. It is a lie straight from the pit. And and forgive me for saying, for being so crude. But and it's also horseshit. But man, it really is. And but I believed that for a long time that you know you can't let people see, you know, see you go through your struggles like that. Well, the the problem with that, and I learned this by coming through the fire and the flames, by coming through those trials, what I learned was that you're lying.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

You're lying. Guess what lies are? They're sin. So you're committing sin and trying to try to be righteous at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

There, there's there's this experience of having to me, it's like Timu catchphrases that really have no value. They're not going to hold up under stress. It's it's cheap junk. However, if you're willing to go through a refining process and you start to live those out, which is like I said, that that's what the guy was saying. I just hadn't lived it out. And so that started to add value. All of a sudden, things become refined. And Paul talks about this. He said, everybody's works are going to be burnt up.

unknown 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

It Paul says, I believe Peter says it too. Uh it says, there's going to come a time of testing, and the refiner's fire is going to show what's gold and what's straw, what's stone, what's what's wood. You know, he's going to show whose works are from a place of doing it from relationship, and you're who else is just doing works to be doing works. He's going to show whether it's whether it can stand the test.

unknown 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

But but getting getting stuck in that frame of maintaining a facade, um, you'll become that uh that servant who uh you know put his put his mind as or his talents in the ground and hit them.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

You'll be that guy because you don't you don't want you don't want to take any risk. You don't want to do anything that might uh jeopardize what you have. You you'll you just want to hold what you got. Um and that's I tell you what, that's really where the church is has has come to uh in a lot of ways. Little sea church has come to in a lot of ways. Uh we want to just kind of hold on to what we got. So we'll just we'll we'll uh we'll dig a hole in the ground, put everything right here, and we'll wait. Yeah. But anyway, I digress. You got me fired up. You got me fired up on on that because um the whole idea of putting on a facade and thinking you have to you got to maintain that face. Oh man, I'll tell you it as a lie from the pit. And um, well, we we lived it. I guess it's uh it's let's just call it mandatory reading.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah. So here is here's the deal. I'm

Dark Night Of The Soul

SPEAKER_00 35:24

looking up some of these mystics. There's a guy named St. John of the Cross, he's 16th century uh Spanish mystic, and he came up with a term, and I go, oh, that's it. That's best description, called the Dark Night of the Soul. So basically it's a stripping strips away your ego so you can achieve, you know, so you can be reborn. Right. Uh, but that's what we had to go through. That's what it was really that dark night of the soul that got us into the wilderness. Uh the wilderness actually helped us through it. Yeah, to be quite truthful. Looked up the definition, said it's a profound existential or spiritual crisis characterized by a collapse of meaning, deep emotional heaviness, and a feeling of profound isolation or disconnection. Yep. Pretty right on.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

When you get to that point, you know, where you where you're called out into the wilderness and you're kind of coming through those things and you and God's working that stuff out in you, it's uh I think it's easier to deal with in the wilderness. Oh, yeah. Uh, because well, it's it's just easier to be naked out there because there's nobody around, uh for lack of better words.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

I also think that uh if if your wilderness is really one of isolation, not all wildernesses are, right? But if it is a place of isolation, uh mine ended up kind of as I'm getting divorced. So there's times where I don't have the kids. That is what it is, but that really allowed for some only me and the Lord time, but here's the benefit if that happens. Other people can't get hurt as much by what you're going through.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Right. Right. We talk been talking about value and worth. Um, once you've come through those times a couple times, once or twice, you start to recognize that there's more value in those crises, in those hard times. There's more value in the silence, uh, in all that stuff. There's more value in that than there is uh the successes. Uh the the uh success story with with all the hoopla and the praise and the handshakes and the high fives. Um you'll get more value out of the failures than you will those times you succeed.

Fear, Failure, And Real Growth

SPEAKER_01 38:09

And it's not that you go look for them and search them out, but you're also not as afraid of them as you were before.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Um because that man, fear, fear's a song, bitch, man. But it's like a it's like a fog, too. Uh it's so thin and light, uh, but at the same time, it's it's just like a fog. If you just reach your hand out, you'll you'll push right through it, and it's like it was never there in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

There's a video uh over on a YouTube, and it says do something that scares you, and it's me going on the sky coaster. Kansas City, Colorado, right over the Royal Gorge. Why did I do that? Because it scared me. If you really want to get over, find something to do that scares you, and do it. And you'll see that fog. It's like you're talking about reaching out your hand. The the fog of war and that that fog of fear, it's a real thing. Yeah, but it's not, it looks way worse than it is. It's not a hard wall. No, it is something you can go through. Yeah, and you know that that's been one of my themes. I'm like, I tell people, hey, where are you going this year on vacation? Now it's a thing, you know. Uh and the key thing is also being making sure you're not being stupid in doing that, because I had this thing I was going to do on my last vacation. I'm like, Lord, I want to do this just to prove I'm not, you know, because it's something that scares me. I said, but I tell you what, also get this feeling that it might not be your will. So if it ain't, let it rain. So I won't do it while it's raining. And then it rained, and then they had had rain there in three months, and it rained uh four out of the five days that that I was there. So, okay, you know, use a little bit of common sense.

What The Church Should Actually Give

SPEAKER_00 40:16

But but the other thing about value is this as an organization, because you know, we had a guy that had failed, mentored us, and by the worldly standards, he had is a failure. Nothing but look at dirt pour and yet precious in God's eyes, because the value he added to us going through that wilderness experience by just being a friend.

unknown 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Just being a friend, just being there, just talking about the Lord, not being judgmental. Maybe calling uh a couple times we got out of pocket. He'd call it lovingly called us back in and correct us, you know, uh when we'd be having Bible study and stuff. But that's all he did was the guy that had his leaky roof two years from being condemned house, and the only reason it was two years from being condemned is because they hadn't expected it three years earlier. Uh yeah, so uh this guy was doing the best he could with what he had. He added value. Now I look at that as opposed to what do we look at for big organizations as far as what can we add for value? Well, he he offered us kind of a little hand-drawn map through this wilderness we were getting ready to go through. Wasn't totally accurate, you know, wasn't using GPS, but hey, he's got this map. He m he made it through. Guess we can too. We might take a little bit different turn. This one's not quite as sharp as he wrote it, but uh what what's the better value? Is is a new sound system? Is the light system is having it to where people don't have to read their Bible and they can look on their phones um and still have their devices out in service? Is that is that adding more value uh to their experience? It's adding to the entertainment value of it, but at what point are we looking for entertainment value um versus actual tangible value in somebody's Christian walk?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah, you know, Frank never took anything from us, but gave us everything freely. And I think that's another thing that that should be considered. Um are we are we taking from folks or are we giving to folks? Yeah. Um because we we should be we should be uh bigger givers than we are takers.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Uh that's that's a that's kind of a big deal. Um look at the apostle Paul. Uh the apostle Paul was not in the habit of of taking from folks. Uh, and he sure enough gave a whole lot more than what he would take. Yeah. Um and that's to me, that's where you that's where you you show off the value. That's where your value comes in. That's how you put your value on display. Um it can be very easy in today's society, which is really probably not any different than any other society, because there's always going to be troubles, I guess. Um, but it can be really easy in today's society to get caught up in all the all the extra stuff and the fluff, uh, the things that we think we need, but we really don't. Um, do we need Wi-Fi in the sanctuary? I I don't I don't know. Um my paper Bible doesn't require internet. Um but those are questions that we kind of bring to the table, you know, in our modern day churches. Yeah. What is what are what are the differences between some wants and some needs? Yeah. Uh because there's more value and worth in the needs of the wants.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

And and if you're attending a church, you know, you might be asking the question, what kind of value can I add? Yeah. And that that's a legitimate question. Uh you can, you know, there might be some things that they need help with. And then try this on for size. What if what what your value to the church is, you know, uh little C is not the same, with kind of what we found out, um, uh to the value of the big C church or what what your value is to the kingdom, you know, there could even be a disconnect there. You guess what? You know, Paul Paul mentioned helps administrations, and to make things run smooth, yeah, you you might be needed in that. Or he might have you working talking to people in a maximum security prison, because that's where you get called.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

That's where you get called. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

If that's where you get called to go, if that's where you can be of more worth and more value to the kingdom, then go.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

So what did you come out to see? You know, why are you here? What are you doing? You know, do you even know?

SPEAKER_00 45:49

What did you come out to see? What did you come out to be?

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Jesus already knows. He's asking you now, you know. So, but uh value and worth often

Final Questions And Closing Blessing

SPEAKER_01 46:00

dependent upon the buyer and the seller. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Barbara Lindsey, well done, good and faithful servant.