Series Episode | Briana, Stephanie, & Dillon

Choosing to engage with a book series is a personal decision every reader has to make. Some people easily commit to this type of reading experience because they value the guarantee of a next read. Many readers also appreciate the deeper character growth and world building that series reading provides. On the other hand, book series can frustrate readers when plots fall flat or drag on, not to mention, painfully long stretches between book releases. In today's conversation, Briana sits down with Dillon and Stephanie to discuss how they approach series reading. They'll explore topics; such as, pacing, character regression and growth, foreshadowing and more. By the end of this episode, you'll know what to look for before tackling your next series. 

Book Recommendations 

The Dungeon Crawler Carl Series by Matt Dinniman

Bleach (Manga Series) by Tite Kubo

The Guy She Was Interested In Wasn't a Guy at All (Manga Series) by Sumiko Arai

Wayward Children Series by Seanan McGuire

Intro Music by nikitsan

Transcript

Series Episode

Briana: [00:00:00] Cheers. Welcome to Top Shelf with the librarians of Russell Library. I'm Brianna, joined by Dylan. 

Stephanie: Hey. 

Briana: And Stephanie. 

Stephanie: Hi. 

Briana: Thank you for joining us today. On Top Shelf, you'll hear about compelling reads from the people who know books best. Our librarians will share titles that connect to a unique theme each episode.

Briana: We'll offer glimpses into what we're doing here at Russell Library, and hopefully spark inspiration to bring to your community. We are very excited to turn the page with you. The focus of today's show is all about book series. A book series is a sequence of books that have certain characteristics in common that are formally identified together as a group.

Briana: That's a big mouthful. 

Stephanie: That is a very weird definition. Yeah. But I 

Briana: guess that's what it is. I couldn't find anything. Like, I probably should have just found something a little more simple, but I was like- No, that's fine. It's worse. 

Stephanie: That's technically what a [00:01:00] series is. 

Briana: Yeah. A series can range from two books, like a duology, to as many as 40.

Briana: Hello, Magic Tree House, because I read all of those. So many. Some of us love them, while others avoid them, preferring standalones. Let's get right to it and see what Stephanie and Dylan have to say about book series. So Steph, Dylan- Mm-hmm ... what draws you to a series? What do you look for? Give us some examples of a series that fits the qualities that you're looking for.

Stephanie: Do you wanna start, Dylan? 

Dillon: I think like most readers, um, I'm looking for a good story. Um, I think the series is a, uh, format of storytelling, um, provides a much, the potential for a much like deeper and richer story- Mm ... than a standalone novel. Yeah. But it's just that it's the potential for deeper because there's more.

Dillon: Mm-hmm. The series isn't over at the end of the book. It can continue, and it can go on and on and on. So I think that it has potential to be a much deeper than a standalone piece, but I'm looking for most importantly a good story. 

Stephanie: And you [00:02:00] hope that a series with a certain length stays- 

Briana: Mm ... 

Stephanie: telling the story in a way that you like?

Stephanie: 'Cause I know sometimes you can get trapped in a series, the first two books are great, and then you get to like book six and it really falls apart. It's so sad. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but building on what Dylan said, I love reading series because I come for the plot, stay for the characters. So I also am looking for a really great story, but with that story, especially with the potential for a longer series of books, you really get to know those characters, and you get character development that hopefully is something that really builds throughout the series and something that you wanna stick around for, uh, especially when you're getting these series that can be seven, eight, nine books long.

Stephanie: If the plot sounds interesting, I'm in, but once the character development starts, I find that I'm really locked in, and I only really tend to pick up series that are in genre, so fantasy, sci-fi, horror, dystopia. I- you don't really find series as much in like romance contemporary. Um, and I had a hard time reading those specific genres for a while starting in [00:03:00] 2020 when the beginning of the pandemic kind of broke my brain in terms of reading world building.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. But I've recently really turned back into series, and long series at that, because you really get to dig in, and now that my brain has that bigger capacity again, I find myself turning to more genre series again. 

Dillon: Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that the most, one of the most important things in a series is character writing, character growth, sometimes character regression- Mm-hmm

Dillon: and then regrowth. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that's kind of more im- not more important than the plot, but just as important as the plot, and I think that series lend the author more freedom to do more intense character growth because there's more material to work with. Um, and that is you know, true with main characters as well as villains, side characters.

Dillon: Mm. Yeah. Sometimes, like in a romance series, the side cha- the side couple is more interesting than the main couple. Yeah. Yes. So, like, there's a lot... Yeah, I think that series lends, um, the author more [00:04:00] freedom when it comes to character writing- Mm-hmm ... which is, which is really good. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: You can take your time- Yeah

Briana: and not have to wrap it up in a tiny little bow after- Yes ... like 370 pages. 

Stephanie: Unless you are writing just a standalone that's gonna be 900 pages, which, like, I don't personally love, I would much rather you break it into three smaller books and really give it space to breathe. Like- Yeah. Will I read a 900-page book?

Stephanie: Yeah. But I'd much rather read that in three different installments and call it a trilogy. I get to talk about a series that I love finally. 

Dillon: I know. 

Stephanie: Yay. Okay. So, um, listeners don't know this, but, um, people who work with me know this, I've been waiting to talk about the Dungeon Crawler Carl series- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: for months. Uh, I just finished the ones that are out, so I'm excited to talk about them because, um, I find that this series is a great example of what I look for in a series. So I started reading these books in January, and I just finished the eighth book a couple of weeks ago. So right now, one through VIII are the only ones that are out.

Stephanie: IX and X are currently being written. And if you don't know this series because, uh, you're not, like, super into books and it [00:05:00] hasn't been all over your algorithm, um, I'll tell you a little bit about it. It beca- basically became my whole personality over the six, last six months. So this is the Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Denneman.

Stephanie: So it's a dystopian reality show, death games, D&D series. Um- There's a lot going on there ... there's a lot going on. Yeah. So basically, I got hooked by the plot because the plot is about this guy in his underwear and his ex-girlfriend's cat. 

Dillon: Well- Important that he's in his underwear 

Stephanie: It's very important that he's in his underwear.

Stephanie: Is it? Is it? It's very important to the plot, yes. Um, and the reason he's in his underwear is because an alien overlord situation comes to Earth and flattens every building on the Earth, and the only people and creatures that survive are the ones that are not currently inside a building at the time. Oh.

Stephanie: And Carl happens to be outside coaxing his ex-girlfriend's cat back inside. So he's outside in his underwear, bare feet, with the cat, and so they, quote-unquote, "have survived," and then all the people who have survived get the option to go into the dungeon, which is [00:06:00] basically this virtual reality game that's being run by the alien overlords.

Stephanie: It sounds insane. I promise it's so entertaining. And it's got, like, video game elements. It's got Dungeons & Dragons elements. Um, but you get invested in the characters as the series goes on. The plot is really engaging and kind of overwhelming 'cause there's so much going on, but the character growth is excellent.

Stephanie: And I mean, if you're not sold by a guy in his underwear with his ex-girlfriend's cat, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I 

Dillon: think you get to see some intense character growth when you're put in, like, a life or death situation like that. 100%. 

Stephanie: 100%. This is really built for putting characters in intense situations- Mm

Stephanie: and seeing what they do and what choices they make. '

Briana: Cause you follow him throughout the entire- 

Stephanie: Mm-hmm ... 

Briana: thing. 

Stephanie: Yeah. So he's the narrator And mostly reliable. Yeah. But he's the narrator, and then you get to meet all these other really interesting characters, and everybody is put into these literal life and death situations.

Stephanie: So the plot is plotting- Mm-hmm ... but the characters are what have you stick around. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. So that's my life right now. Dylan, what book series do you wanna talk about? [00:07:00]

Briana: The series 

Dillon: that- I'm dying. I don't know if I can top that. Um- Sorry. The series that I thought of when I was like, what's an example of a s- book series that, like, fits all, everything that, like, checks all the boxes for me, and it was, um, the Bleach, the manga series by, uh, Tite Kubo.

Dillon: Oh. It's one of the big three that kind of- Okay ... um, helped support the, uh, manga industry in Japan when it was failing. Oh, wow. It sold enough copies along with One Piece and Naruto to, like, kind of keep the manga industry afloat. 

Stephanie: It sounds familiar, but I 

Dillon: don't know what it's about. Yeah, Bleach is- Okay ... is, I believe, in the n- uh, like '98, or when it was, maybe 2002.

Dillon: It, it, you know- Okay. 

Stephanie: Okay. 

Briana: I was, like, three years old. 

Dillon: Yeah, older. Yeah, and, um- 

Stephanie: Not to date yourself. 

Briana: Not to date myself. 

Dillon: Um, it- it's got, like, complex characters, complex villains, action- Mm-hmm ... very complex and, like, tense politics throughout it. Ooh. And of course, like, romance subplots kinda sprinkled throughout, you know- Yeah

Dillon: which is, it's kind of the cherry on top. Yeah. Mm. You know? Um, I also thought of, like, the Witcher series, but like- Mm-hmm ... um, [00:08:00] those are, like, very nonlinear, and so it's kind of- Mm-hmm ... hard to get into- Mm ... those because they're written in, like, flashbacks, you know? And- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... yeah, he's, like, telling his escapades in, like, stories, so they're out of order sometimes.

Dillon: So, like, those are, that's a little more complicated, but- I 

Stephanie: didn't realize it was told nonlinearly. That's good to know. 

Dillon: Yeah, some, so, like, the, the Witcher books will start out and then he'll start telling a story, and then that- Gotcha ... story will lead into another story, and that story will lead into another story.

Dillon: Oh. And then at the very end of the book, the last, like, third of the book is the things playing out in real time after he's finished telling his stories. 

Stephanie: Stephen King- Wow ... does that sometimes too. 

Dillon: Yeah, it's kind of crazy. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a cool way to tell the story, but I find that if you spend too long in the flashback- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: I get disengaged from the story. So you have to really balance it right. 

Dillon: Mm-hmm. 

Briana: That doesn't sound like the best series to use if you're gonna start reading series for the first time. 

Dillon: Yeah, I, that's why I- Might get a little confusing ... was more leaning towards recommending Bleach. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's just, like, a, it's a classic, um, shonen manga series, you know, a supernatural.

Dillon: Um, kind of starts out as, like, a ghost hunter series- Oh ... but then turns into a [00:09:00] complex game of, like, there's a whole, like, soul society that exists in, like, this spiritual realm, and there's politics that play. 

Stephanie: Okay, this I would read. 

Dillon: This I would read. Yeah, it's- Yeah ... really cool. Yeah, it's a great series.

Stephanie: How many books in- 

Dillon: I believe there's 72 volumes. Wow. But that sounds like a lot. But there's surely, like- Yeah, it sounds like a lot, but it's- Yeah ... graphic novel, you know? It, manga is graphic novels, so it's like- Right ... it, you can read through a volume a lot quicker than you can a book, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I would say maybe three...

Dillon: I would say five. I could read probably five volumes in the same amount of time that s- you know, my wife can read a 500-page book. Yeah. 

Stephanie: Okay, that's fair. 

Dillon: So- Yeah ... yeah. 

Stephanie: So it's, like, 70, 72? 

Dillon: 72 volumes. 

Stephanie: 72 for, for manga, but not in, like- 

Dillon: Yeah, in, in book- ... 

Stephanie: the grand scheme of things ... terms, 

Dillon: it won't take that 

Stephanie: long 

Dillon: to 

Briana: read.

Stephanie: Okay, cool. Yeah. That's good to know. 

Dillon: Yeah. 

Stephanie: I would be intimidated by a 72-book series 

Briana: Yeah. It sounds like the kind of series you can just pick up and, like, binge through really quickly, 'cause it just 

Dillon: sounds so good. Yes, and that is, yeah, that is the benefit of- 

Briana: Yeah ... 

Dillon: Bleach being written, you know, a while ago, is that- Yeah

Dillon: it's all out and you can just read it 

Stephanie: all [00:10:00] now. 

Briana: Yes. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna come back to that. And now instead of waiting, like, 20,000 years, but we'll talk about that. Uh-huh. 

Stephanie: Yes. 

Briana: So what makes a story told in a series better than a standalone book? 

Stephanie: I mean, Dylan, you already touched on this. 

Dillon: Yeah, I think we already mentioned this.

Dillon: I know we talked about it a little, but- It's just, like, series has potential to be greater. It doesn't mean it always is greater than- Yeah ... standalone books. There are some great standalone stories out there that don't need to be serialized. Um, but yeah, series have the potential for a deeper story with more robust characters, um, that are not limited to just one volume, and it allows authors more freedom to kinda pace the story, um, how they want instead of cramming it into a single book.

Dillon: But it is kind of a double-edged sword. 

Briana: Mm-hmm. 

Dillon: Not everything needs to be 10 books long. Yes. You know, some things can be done in one or two books, you know? Mm-hmm. And y- you don't need to kinda overstay your welcome- Yeah ... and draw things out. Yeah. And I think pacing- 

Briana: Mm-hmm ... is really important. Definitely. 

Stephanie: I think, like I was saying earlier, it also comes back to genre.

Stephanie: Like- For contemporary and romance books, I think a standalone works most of the time really [00:11:00] perfectly well. But if we're getting introduced to a new world and there's a new set of rules, I, I want the story to have space to breathe. Yeah. If I'm learning, like, a set of magic systems, or if I'm learning about, like, like in Dungeon Crawl or Car, if I'm learning about, like, oh, they're in a new space and there are, like, lots of, uh, limitations or there's, there's rules and there's...

Stephanie: I need space to figure that out. Mm-hmm. And you're not necessarily gonna do that in a standalone book. Um, I also like when a story necessitates more than one book to tell the whole story, like Dylan was saying. Like, I've always been a fan of the Hunger Games books. We've talked about this on the podcast before.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. But that's not, in my opinion, a story you can fully tell in just one installment. It, that, I think that goes for most dystopian stories. Yeah. You, you really, that genre really necessitates more series than standalones. I, I would say probably almost exclusively. I- Mm-hmm ... I, I don't know if I've ever read a standalone dystopian book.

Stephanie: Not that I can- I know, 

Briana: I don't think 

Stephanie: so either ... think of. 'Cause you feel like you're not telling just- Well, 

Briana: maybe, like, George Orwell. 

Stephanie: Okay, that's true. 1984. 

Briana: Like that maybe. Yeah. [00:12:00] But I 

Stephanie: feel like 

Briana: to your 

Stephanie: point, most of the time there has to be multiples. Contemporary dystopian stories, yeah. Because you, you're getting a backstory, you're getting, like, what did the society look like before.

Stephanie: Yeah. How is it looking now? How many different characters can we tell the story through? Mm-hmm. Um, the same thing, the Scythe books by Neal Shusterman. I don't know if either- Yeah, Scythe ... of you are familiar with these. Loved... Uh, I get, I think the series is actually called, like, Arc of a Scythe- Yeah ... but the first book is called Scythe.

Stephanie: Um, I can't imagine only getting one book's worth of a story for a premise, um, like that. The premise of those books is imagine if we eliminated natural death and had to hire people to reap others to control the population. I don't want that- Ooh ... in one story. No. I want that in three books- Yeah ... which is what that story did.

Stephanie: So I feel like these genre stories really necessitate having multiple pieces of an arc that you can really stretch it out over. 

Briana: No, I can't say I ever read that, but I'm so familiar with it- It's a 

Stephanie: great series ... '

Briana: cause people still read it all the time. 

Stephanie: Yeah. I actually tried rereading it the other day- Yeah

Stephanie: 'cause I was, uh, stuck at the middle school in the library without my own book. So I picked it up and I, like, reread the first 50 pages, and it just goes down smooth. 

Briana: Love 

Stephanie: that. Yeah. It's great. 

Briana: Love that. So we may have [00:13:00] kind of touched on this already. 

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. 

Briana: But what keeps you reading a series once you start it?

Briana: And if a series is a bit longer, like, what about it really keeps you engaged and makes you wanna keep reading, even if it is, like, 72 books long? 

Dillon: Yeah, I think that the pacing, it has to be good. Yeah. The story has to keep moving, um, and the writing has to have purpose. So, like, if the, if the writing isn't purposeful and the story is stagnant, then, like, you're gonna lose- 

Briana: Mm-hmm

Dillon: people's attention. Yep. Um, the scenes and the dialogues in books have to propel the story and the characters forward, um, even if it's less than a standalone. Um, standalones have to be more choosy- Mm ... with their scenes and- Yep ... the payout and the dialogue because they have to be even more, I guess, intentional with what they put in.

Dillon: Mm-hmm. You know, and they have to omit stuff that doesn't fit, um, even if they like it. You know, you might fall in love with a scene as an author that you have to cut out because- It's, doesn't propel the story, you know, in a way. Yeah. So I think that, um, yeah, [00:14:00] series can kind of play out longer scenes, you know- Mm-hmm

Dillon: and have more, um, drawn out- 

Briana: Yeah ... uh, 

Dillon: dialogues. 

Stephanie: I mean, I personally, I can start a series and quit at any point. Like the book- Yeah ... has to be good. Um, and I can also start a series and just never come back once the next installment comes out. So I'm, if I'm not super curious where the book leaves off, I probably won't come back, and I think that's really important too.

Stephanie: Like- Mm-hmm ... you have to have that plot that is engaging, and you have to make me wanna come back. Even if there's gonna be long periods of time- Mm-hmm ... between books, there has to be something that makes me think, "Oh, wait. When- Yeah ... is that next book coming out? Because I wanna get back to that world." But no, I'm, I'm quick to be like, "Uh," I can read the first book and be like, "I'm done.

Stephanie: I don't need any more." 

Briana: Love that. 

Dillon: Yeah, why do you think that, like, most series leave off with cliffhangers? Exactly. It's 'cause they have to ha- Yeah ... they have to bring you back. Exactly. They have to leave you with something that makes you wanna come back. Yep. Yeah. And that's kind of like when you're reading a longer series, I find myself kind of asking, like, why did they write this in here?

Dillon: Mm-hmm. You know, why [00:15:00] did the character say that, use that specific wording? Is this foreshadowing for something bigger to come? You know, because I think the best authors of larger series incorporate foreshadowing, like, from the very beginning. Yeah. And that's always that payout when the foreshadowing comes to light is like- 

Stephanie: Yes

Dillon: you know, it, it, it's hard to beat, you know? Like, 

Stephanie: the intentionality of laying those elements or coming back to those specific word choices- Yeah ... and you're three books in and you're like, wait a second. Mm-hmm. They mentioned that one character in book one, and I didn't think they were gonna come back, but now they did and it makes sense.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. 

Dillon: That's the potential. Series has that- 

Stephanie: Yes ... 

Dillon: that layers- Yeah ... of potential that standalone books just don't have. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: I'm not gonna lie, I feel like I miss those, like, little foreshadows all the time- Mm-hmm ... when I read a series. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Yes. 

Briana: So I, I like that you guys, like, notice that kind of stuff, 'cause I just read and I'm like, "Ooh."

Stephanie: I, I read, I read so fast that sometimes I miss it. Yeah. Like, so Darren is now reading The Dungeon Crawler Crawl books, and I'm like reliving them through him. Yeah. And he's like, "Oh, I kind of..." And I'm like, "How did you notice that?" He, he's more perceptive of a reader. I'm just like, da, da, da, I'm reading it- Yeah, yeah, yeah

Stephanie: 'cause I'm having a good time. And he's like, [00:16:00] "Oh yeah, I think this is gonna come back," or, "I think that." I was like, "How did you figure that out? It took me like 50 more pages." Mm. But yeah, like the author laying down those little bits if you're paying enough attention, they pay off, feels so good. 

Briana: I gotta pay more attention- Yeah

Briana: when 

Stephanie: I read. Um, but I will say, for a longer series, I will stay engaged if the plot twists are ex- executed well- Yeah ... and if they're not just, like, for chaos or for no reason. I hate when I'm reading a series and they're just like, "Chaos!" And I'm like, "But why?" 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Like, if that isn't earned, I, I, I get pulled out of it.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And I will also stick around if I've grown attached to the characters and their development If I don't care about the characters and we're six books in, like why are we still here? Yeah, exactly. Um, and I also like seeing when they add new characters into the mix. Like I love these characters, but oh, book four they toss in this person and I'm like, "Okay, who are you?"

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. "How is this gonna change the dynamic, and how is the plot gonna change now that we've tossed in this random person or random creature?" 

Dillon: That it just all goes back to like- Yeah ... authors' intentionality. Yes. Like being intentional with introducing a new character, 'cause this character makes this [00:17:00] other character jealous.

Dillon: Yep. And so that jealousy propels- Mm ... their own character growth. Mm-hmm. You know, or something like that. Mm-hmm. 

Stephanie: Well, and like you said, it sometimes causes the character to regress. 

Dillon: Regression, yeah. 

Stephanie: But it's purposeful, because you know that the regression is something that the author planned, and that they are going to come back to in, in new installments.

Stephanie: And it's gonna feel so good when you get that character growth to return. 

Briana: I have a question. So have- Yeah ... both of you ever noticed, like when you're reading a series that like book one is fantastic, and then you get to book two and you're like, "Uh, 

Stephanie: uh..." That happens a... I feel like that happens- It's that- ... a lot.

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: But I feel like that happens when an author has not planned the series in advance. Yeah. Like, and I don't, I don't read one specific. I'm not gonna call any authors out. Mm-hmm. But like sometimes they'll write this hit book and it does super well, and then their publisher's like, "Okay, well now this is a four-book series," and they have not plotted it and characterized it out that far.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. So book two is so much weaker because they, they spent so much energy on book one, and they weren't ready to, to pull off books three, four... three and four in the time span that the publisher gave them. Yeah. And so sometimes I think that's a publishing issue. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily a writing issue, but it [00:18:00] becomes a writing issue because the publishing- Yeah

Stephanie: makes it an issue. Does that make sense? 

Briana: Yep. Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot harder. Would that make you guys stop reading if you encountered that? Or would you push through to book three hoping it gets better, or like how- 

Dillon: I think it depends on how much I like the characters probably. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Dillon: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. 

Dillon: It's a lot harder to write in foreshadowing and character growth in post, you know- Right

Dillon: after you've already- Yeah ... written the first book. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It also depends if the full series is out. Like if there's- Yeah ... four books out and everyone's like, "Yeah, book two takes a dip, but book three and four get better," mm, it's kind of a roll the dice on that one. Mm-hmm. Because I might not wanna push through to books three and four if book th- two really took a dip.

Stephanie: Like I know they call it a sophomore slump. It happens a lot. Yeah. But I don't know, if the sophomore slump is slumping really hard, I might not keep going. Yeah. Depends. 

Dillon: I mean, book two of the, um, Inheritance, of Eragon by Christopher Paolini, the Inheritance series, is the best book of the four. 

Stephanie: Okay. 

Dillon: In my opinion.

Dillon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I mean- I don't remember ... sometimes book two is the best. 

Stephanie: Yeah. You just never- Fair 

Dillon: enough ... if, if the writing's good. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: Yeah. And he has, he has good writing. 

Stephanie: [00:19:00] I mean, book two of The Hunger Games I think is the best too, so sometimes- There you go ... book two is even stronger. Yeah. 

Briana: There you go.

Dillon: This 

Briana: is true. 

Stephanie: It really just depends. 

Briana: That's like my favorite movie too of the, of all of them. 

Stephanie: Me too. It's so good. I re-watched it, and Darren was like, "Why are you watching this?" I was like, "Because it's a perfect film." He's like, "But it's horrifying." I was like, "Yeah, but it's a perfect film." Sorry, I like dystopian I 

know.

Briana: Now we've talked about everything we love- Mm-hmm ... about book series. Now we kinda need to talk about what keeps us from reading a book series. 

Stephanie: Um, so similar to what I was just saying, people say to me a lot, um, "Oh, it gets better after book one." And I'm like, okay, but if book one is not good, I'm not even gonna try.

Stephanie: Um, so for me, I shy away from a series if someone's like, "Well, they get better," but if book one is kind of mid, I'm not sure I'm gonna invest. Mm-hmm. That's just personal. 

Dillon: Yeah. Stagnation for me is the number one thing. The pacing. If the pacing- Yeah ... is bad, if the- Yeah ... story is stagnant, if the characters are stagnant, then it's hard to like want to keep [00:20:00] reading them, 'cause I don't, I don't like the characters.

Dillon: You know, I don't like the story. So like, yeah, if, if it gets- Mm-hmm ... if you have to wait for a book two for it to get better- Yes ... it's might not, not be worth it. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Like, if book one feels like a rough draft- Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Um, I also get intimidated by a series with a lot of books with a lot of pages. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: So like length of series and length of books individually- Yeah ... sometimes will get me, um, to just like not pick one up. Um, when I first picked up Dungeon Crawler Carl, I... The first book is only 400 pages, so I was like, "This is good. I got this." And then Kelsey showed me the stack of the remaining books- They're huge

Stephanie: and they're massive. Yeah. Um, and by the time I realized the other books were sometimes 800 or 900 pages, I was already hooked. But if I had seen that stack, I don't know if I would've even started. I told myself, "Keep reading until you're no longer interested." Um, and here we are waiting- Yeah ... on book nine.

Stephanie: So, but if I had gone to the shelf, I would've been like, "Mm, I don't know. It's a little scary." I don't know. 

Dillon: I'm, I'm terrified of those books. Because they look like, you know, grimoires, [00:21:00] and I'm 

Briana: scared. 

Stephanie: They go fast, but they are a lot. Yeah. They are a lot. Yeah. I know. Everyone says the audio is amazing. I'm not a big audiobook listener, but the guy- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: that does the audio narration is excellent. 

Dillon: I need to- Nice ... try that then, 'cause 

Stephanie: Mary- Yes. 

Dillon: Yeah ... Mary really wants me to read them, so. Yeah. 

Stephanie: They're fun. They're fun to talk about at your house if you have multiple people reading them. 

Briana: Mm-hmm. I know. I think for me, I feel the same. Like, when something's like just a big chonker- Yes

Briana: let alone if it's on its own, I'm like, "Ugh." Like, I read Alchemized, and I had to kind of force myself to because it's like- Oh, it's massive ... 1,000 pages long. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: But like, that series in particular, like every time I've looked at a book we've gotten in for, I'm like- ... that's too big. It's not happening.

Briana: They're huge. I'm like, I can't. Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: But then you're right, like you keep... You stop when you're not interested anymore. Yeah. And clearly you love it so much, you just kept going. 

Stephanie: The, they got better. Yeah. I mean, it's not a case of like, oh, they get better after book one. They do get better after book one, but book one is also good on its own.

Stephanie: Yeah. So I don't wanna sound like a hypocrite. Like, they get better after book one, but book one is solid. 

Dillon: I think that's natural with series- Yeah ... is that like- Yeah ... like you said with character development and character growth, like obviously you grow to love the [00:22:00] characters- Mm-hmm ... and want their growth even more as the story progresses.

Dillon: Yeah. So book one has to be good. 

Stephanie: Yes. 

Dillon: And there has to be good character- Yeah ... writing in book one, but of course it's gonna get better because you're gonna fall in love with the story- Mm-hmm ... and the characters as the series progresses. Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dillon: I don't think that's contradictory, is what 

Stephanie: I'm saying.

Stephanie: No, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't like, "Well, people are like, it gets better after book one." Yeah. I mean, it does, but book one is- Yeah ... good, versus when people are like, "Book one is mid and it gets better." That's a different story. 

Briana: That's me with the series, I know you both don't like, the ACOTAR series.

Briana: That's- I, I 

Stephanie: was 

Dillon: avoiding mentioning 

Stephanie: it. I was trying not to say 

Briana: it. I had to say it. I was 

Dillon: gonna, gonna censor Sarah 

Briana: J. Maas- 

Dillon: his name. 

Briana: We, I love you, Sarah, but that book was hard for me to get through See, 

Stephanie: and 

Briana: that's why- But then everything else was- It sucked ... so beautiful. 

Stephanie: That's why I didn't continue, 'cause everyone said- I know

Stephanie: they get better after book one. I was like, "But I didn't like book one." Okay. They really- I didn't not like it I thought book one was fine. Yeah. But not enough to keep going- Yeah ... even though everyone said book two was better. I'm like, yeah- Mm-hmm ... but book one was mid. So I'm do- I'm... And they're long. Yeah.

Stephanie: They're long. They're really 

Briana: long. 

Stephanie: And it's a big series, so at that point I was like, I am no longer- Mm-hmm ... invested in this. Yeah. I have other books I wanna read. [00:23:00]

Briana: I had enough people to push me to try, that I then became invested, 'cause I was like, "Oh, no, I actually do really love this," but it took me many tries.

Stephanie: Yeah. And you have even told me that- 

Briana: Yes ... 

Stephanie: same thing, and I'm like- Yep ... mm, can't do it. 

Briana: Nope. 

Stephanie: Sorry. 

Briana: Totally fair. 

Stephanie: Sarah J. Maas has plenty of readers that don't need to include me. Yeah. It's fine. She's doing fine. 

Briana: Yeah. She's doing great, thanks. She's doing great. So is it preferable to start a series once it's finished or when it's not completed?

Briana: And I know we touched on this a little. 

Dillon: I think that it's always preferable to read a book that's, or a series that's already finished, as long as it hasn't been like spoiled for you or ruined for you. Yes. Because it's, it's already out there and you can just binge- Yeah ... read it, and you can ingest the whole thing.

Dillon: Especially if you become like obsessed with it. Which feeling, I, feeling guilty about not having read Bleach, I read Bleach in like a month. 

Stephanie: Amazing. Wow. 

Dillon: Um, in like last year. Like so very recently. So, um, 'cause I had read Nar- Naruto and One Piece, um, and so Bleach was like the last one of the big three that I just hadn't read.

Dillon: And so I just binged [00:24:00] it, and I, it's my favorite of the three now. You know? And so like- That's awesome ... yeah, retrospectively. Like, uh- Mm-hmm ... you know, I, I felt some guilt. Um, and it hadn't been spoiled for me. I'd avoided it. Yeah. 

Stephanie: So that's good. Yeah. That is tough though. Like avoiding spoilers- Yeah

Stephanie: especially for a really popular or a really big series. I mean, I hate spoilers in general- Mm-hmm ... but they are hard to avoid- Yeah ... especially when you are on the internet very much, like I am. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I appreciate when people tag spoilers, because I truly want to have a- Yeah ... spoiler-free reading experience.

Stephanie: I know it's not always possible. Um, I actually have two schools of thought on this. So I think there's pros and cons to a finished series and a not finished series. When I finally read The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, I started with book one, and all seven books had already been released at that point.

Stephanie: So I could go at my own pace, and then dip in and out whenever I wanted. And I was ready to revisit, visit that world like every once in a while. Mm-hmm. I didn't wanna binge it, 'cause those books are very dense. Yeah. And the world-building is just like really, really intense, and I, I didn't wanna be in that world all the time, so I kind of dipped back and forth.

Stephanie: So I had the freedom [00:25:00] to read at my own pace. Um, and those books are so long, so being able to take breaks was nice. Not having to wait made reading that series work much better for me. And I know when that series first came out, people were like, there were years between books. Like five, six, seven, eight years- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: between books. And people got so frustrated, and I get that. However, when I started Dungeon Crawler Carl, seven books were already out, and the eighth was about to come out, so I was able to read them pretty close together, almost like a binge. And then I wanted to keep going because I was so hooked on the series.

Stephanie: So I think it kind of depends on the series too. Like- Yeah ... I took breaks between the Dungeon books, but only like two or three books at a time, whereas Dark Tower, I took like months in between, just because of the density- Mm-hmm ... of it. I tend to prefer reading a series where most, if not all the books are already out, so I don't get bored or disengaged between installments.

Stephanie: Um, and sometimes I know you read a book and the sequel doesn't come out for six years, and I'm not always sure I wanna revisit that world at that point. If, if it's engaging enough, I'll come back, but it has to be really good for me to even [00:26:00] remember that the book hasn't, the book hasn't come out yet.

Stephanie: Yeah. That, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Do 

Briana: you ever, do you both ever get, like, series burnout- Yeah ... depending on what you're reading? Yeah. So what do you do to combat that? 

Dillon: Start a new one. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Dillon: It- uh, usually in a different genre. Yeah. Like, I'll read a lot of, like, kind of, like Bleach, like action shonen with, you know, like fantasy, supernatural elements- Mm-hmm

Dillon: to it, and then I'll go to a romance, like, or something. Yeah. You know. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Dillon: Something that's light, less- Mm-hmm ... easily, more easily digestible, um, and then come back to something dark and heavy and, you know. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Dillon: Yeah. 

Stephanie: I mean, I get genre burnout anyways, so I'm always hopping around. Like, I just read back-to-back romance books, so I was like, "I need a horror.

Stephanie: I can't do another romance." Yeah. Um, but, like, uh, last year I read The Inheritance Games books by Jennifer Lynn Barnes, and I was in such a big reading slump, and I went on vacation, and I just needed something. I ended up reading all of those books back-to-back-to-back- Wow ... because the story was just, I wanted to see the whole story [00:27:00] play out in- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: a short amount of time. Um, so I don't do that super often, but that story, I was just, like, really engaged, and nothing else was calling to me. I even tried to pick up books in between- Yeah ... and my brain was just like, "No, you just need to finish this series." So I think, I'm a big mood reader, so I think that just came- Mm-hmm

Stephanie: down to mood for me. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Um, and all of those books were already out. Yeah, so that helps. So I had access to reading them back-to-back, which made a difference. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: Our wild card question for today is what series would you recommend to someone who is looking to start one? 

Dillon: Um, this is kind of tough, 'cause it just depends on personal preference.

Dillon: Mm. You know? Like, I think that you should read a story- in a genre and format that you are interested in. 'Cause I think that if you're not interested in fantasy books, you're not gonna enjoy The Witcher or, you know- Yeah ... the Lord of the Rings. You know, like, you're gonna want something- Yeah, don't 

Stephanie: give Lord of the Rings to a beginner.

Dillon: Yeah, yeah, don't- They're gonna get mad at you ... yeah, don't go there. You know? 

Stephanie: I speak from experience. 

Dillon: Yeah. So I think that you gotta pick a genre and format that you're interested in. If you don't like graphic [00:28:00] novels, uh, don't pick up a manga, you know- Yeah ... or a comic book. If you don't like audiobooks, don't listen to an audiobook.

Dillon: I mean, that's different 'cause it's... You know, but you know what I mean. 

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Dillon: Find a format and a genre that you're interested in. If you want a romance series, um, that is... And you like graphic novels, um, then you should pick up, you know, a romance that's in either a manga or a comic book form.

Dillon: But if you want, you know, an action-adventure, you know, crazy dystopian, uh- I love this story ... futuristic, sci-fi, fantasy dungeon crawler, then you should- I want it ... pick up Dungeon 

Briana: Crawl 

Dillon: Carl. Yeah. 

Stephanie: Also, everyone keeps recommending other lit RPGs to me. I'm like, "I don't want other ones, I just like these ones."

Stephanie: I just 

Dillon: want this one. 

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. This is the only one I want. Like, I don't wanna read, like, slightly different versions. No, just, if it's not this series, I'm not reading it. 

Briana: Mm-hmm. 

Stephanie: Which is fair. 

Briana: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Um, yeah. 

Dillon: If you want peak, um, supernatural fantasy, read Bleach, in my opinion. Cool. Mm. You know. But if you want something, something that I would [00:29:00] recommend right now that I'm really enjoying...

Dillon: If you want something completely different from anything that I've talked about so far, um, there's a high school romance series called The Guy She Was Interested In Wasn't a Guy at All, by- Cool ... Arai Sumiko, and it is- That's an amazing title. I know, it's crazy. Yeah, and it's completely different from, like, what you'd expect me to be reading.

Dillon: Yeah. You know, just, uh, high school lesbian romance. But, um- See, but that sounds like 

Stephanie: something I would read. 

Dillon: Yeah, no, it, but it is incredible. And it's done in this, like, cra- this vignette, I guess is what I'm calling it, like a vignette style- Mm-hmm ... where it's, like, the chapters- Oh ... they're, they're s- they're linear.

Dillon: Like, they're, they're experiencing the chapters in chronological order, but the chapters are kind of just, like, little- You know, peeks through a window into the story. Mm. So you don't get everything. Like, it's not, like, written out from beginning to end. The chapters are just like you are like a fly on the wall in this room, in this classroom where this is happening.

Dillon: That sounds good. And then it's like scenes playing out. Yeah. And of course, this is a, a manga, so it's a graphic [00:30:00] novel format. So... And I think this kind of vignette style is better or more easily done in a graphic novel format where, like, you can kind of be a fly on the wall, and you can see the things playing out.

Dillon: Yeah, completely different from, you know- Yeah ... fan- fantasy. 

Stephanie: I like how we were both like- Sure ... "What's he gonna say?" Yeah. Yeah. I was very... I- 

Dillon: Was high school lesbian romance not what you were expecting? 

Stephanie: No, but it wasn't as off the wall as I thought you were gonna say. Yeah. I was like, "Where is he going with this?"

Stephanie: Yeah. No, 

Dillon: I like it. There's another little vignette style romance called Veil that I really like, but that one is less... Like, the story is not very complex. That one's just very- Okay ... the bite size romance- Yeah ... scenes playing out. This one actually has, like, you know, drama and plot, you know. And of course, these are characters that are coming of age and, like, figuring out who they are and dealing with- Mm

Dillon: something that isn't necessarily always accepted by other people, you know. 

Stephanie: My favorite kind of book. 

Dillon: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean- It's, it's 

Briana: very you. 

Dillon: Yeah. 

Stephanie: I know, Tony, you're selling me on this. 

Dillon: Yes. I'm trying to. 

Stephanie: It's working. Okay. So I actually [00:31:00] do have a series to recommend that I think works for beginners.

Stephanie: Um, bear with me. So have you, either of you heard of the Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire? 

Dillon: No. 

Stephanie: Okay. So if you're into fantasy and science fiction, and you wanna start a series that's a little easier to access for a beginner, this is the one that I recommend. So, um, just really briefly, this is a series about children and teenagers who have found doorways into other worlds, and then come back and, um, don't know how to reacclimate to society.

Stephanie: So they all attend the School for Wayward Children to find common ground with others like them. So like, kids who, like, went through the, uh, wardrobe, or kids who, like, tripped and fell in a well. And like, they go to all these different lands, and then they come back and they're like, "I don't know how to be a person in regular society anymore."

Stephanie: There's always, like, a wild quest involved, and a new book in the series comes out every January, so it's really consistent. And so there's 12 books in the series, but they're shorter, novella-style stories, and they go more quickly than, like, an epic fantasy. And there's this cool thing that Seanan McGuire did, which I [00:32:00] didn't realize, that she actually explained to me, 'cause I asked her on Blue Sky and I didn't know that this was a thing.

Stephanie: Yeah. Um, so they're easy to dip in and out of because she wrote the odd-numbered books to be connected, but the even numben book- numbered books to be able to be read as standalones. So this is, like, a really good entry point if you are looking for a series that you don't have to super commit to. So you'll see, like, repeat characters in the odd-numbered books, but the even-numbered books are, like, one-offs that are in the same world, but you can dip in with a new character and then dip right back out.

Stephanie: Yeah. That's 

Briana: really cool. 

Dillon: These are super- That's really interesting. I always thought that was kind of a plot hole in, like, the Narnia books. Right. It's like the kids come back, they just lived a whole other life- Right ... in another world, and they come back and they're like, "Oh, now I'm back in London," you know?

Dillon: Mm-hmm. 

Stephanie: Yeah. So, so she took that and was like, "How about I make a place for those kids to go, and so they don't- Mm ... feel like misfits and outcasts?" And a lot of times they come back and their families either don't remember them or no longer want them. Yeah. So they're like, "Oh, what do I do?" And you don't 

Dillon: think Peter and Edmund had some trauma- Oh, my 

Stephanie: God

Dillon: from, you know, being war heroes- 

Stephanie: Absolutely ... in another world? I mean... Absolutely. So now they get to all live in this, in this, like, falling down [00:33:00] school. N- but- 

Briana: Is that the one that has, like, the covers with, like, the cool names? 

Stephanie: Yes. 

Briana: Like the turtle or dinosaur or 

Stephanie: something? Yeah, so the one that has a turtle on it.

Stephanie: Uh- Yeah ... like s- something of garnet and go- In the Halls of Garnet and Gold is the new one. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, they all have, like, fun names, and they all have... They're, like, fairy tale, like, adjacent characters. So there's, like, a book about characters named Jack and Jill, but they're twins. Mm-hmm. That's a really dark one.

Stephanie: Um, but this is really cool. Like, because you get that sci-fi fantasy, like, fairy tale stuff, but they're usually, like, only 200 pages, and if you like the characters, you stick with the whole series. But if you don't really care, you can just dip in and out. So it's fun. 

Briana: Those all sound like really great recommendations.

Briana: Yeah. We've heard some really great stuff today. I'm excited to check some of these out myself. 

Stephanie: Yay. 

Briana: Thank you both for taking us through series and giving us your wisdom and- Helping us as readers read better books. 

Stephanie: Yeah, I hope so. 

Briana: Love it. Very exciting. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Briana: It's time to close the book on today's episode.

Briana: If you like what you've heard here, please subscribe to the show. It ensures that you won't miss any [00:34:00] episodes. And if you have a moment, kindly rate and review the podcast. This helps other bookish people like yourself find the show. Tune in next time to find out what else is on the shelf. Bye-bye. Bye. 

Dillon: See you.

Briana: Yes. We should [00:35:00] [00:36:00] end